Jump to content
Armagon

You can only transfer Pokemon to Sword and Shield if they exist in the Galar Dex.

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I think a huge problem is that everyone assume we could transfer all between gens forever and that all Pokemon would be always available in all games.

 

The assumption was made thanks to the whole Pokemon Bank/Home thingy. Not to mention you were always able to do it, and without reasonable justification, the fans wouldn't take to that feature being taken out lightly.

 

Edited by Shrimperor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

The assumption was made thanks to the whole Pokemon Bank/Home thingy. Not to mention you were always able to do it, and without reasonable justification, the fans wouldn't take to that future being taken out lightly.

 

Can’t deny that part about Pokemon Home. I wonder if they announced Home after the Dex cut announcement would have been better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That didn't even address anything. It was just "I hear ya but I don't care" and then continued to give a copy and paste of what he already said at E3 and also failed to alleviate other concerns like the graphics, animations, inclusion of any meaningful post-game, etc.

I understand that possibly one day pokemon will reach the point where they can't implement everyone in but that day is certainly not today.

Unlike Yo-Kai Watch 4 which has major graphical improvements and overhauled their battle system GF has shown no improvements whatsoever and is just recycling the same crap they've been recycling since forever now. And even then, Yo-Kai Watch 4 is still adding the rest of the missing yokai via updates which is a completely foreign concept to GF.

GF has given us no reason to believe that any pokemon needed to be cut this generation. Masuda keeps saying how hard of a decision it was to make but gave us no explanation as to why he had to make this decision in the first  place and every excuse before has been a goddamn lie.

This level of dishonesty and miscommunication is probably the most infuriating thing about the whole controversy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Dai said:

Thinking on it, I don’t know why any of us expected they might patch them in. They only ever patch things out. They never patched in the additional megas from ORAS into XY, even to allow battle compatibility, nor did they patch in the Battle Frontier like everyone swore up and down that they would.

I thought in this case it was very reasonable. Game Freak has said very little about what the issue is, but all of us want to believe it's a manpower issue. Something like: Too many pokemon and they don't want to copy paste old work every year into the next game without some touching up. And from there we just make some guesses at what that touching up is. But if you updated the games you're doing precisely that sort of work you'd want to do in bringing those pokemon into the next game. Updating an existing pokemon game = soft development for the next game. That is the unique nature of this franchise. It takes time and money to make these updates but it's being paid forward in a way that just isn't the case for other types of games. And those other types of games get updates anyway in response to fan outcry. At the same time we got this news at E3, we learned Mario Maker would go back on a controversial decision in a post-release update. While adding online lobbies does not sound like a massive update, we are talking about a game that was actually finished and ready to ship when it was decided to add this feature. Pokemon can change plans about its post release development since it's not in that phase yet.

Nintendo would also appreciate regular updates to one of their premier sellers of the Switch Online service. If pokemon were re-added to Gen 8 on a monthly basis, people would log in to the game and battle/trade, use the paid HOME service, maybe hunt down these pokemon if they were made available in those dynamax raid battles which further promote online play. Even ignoring how updates could make fans happy again, there's money to be made in this proposition.

19 hours ago, Water Mage said:

I don’t think Masuda passed the message correctly though. If he revealed this when Gen 8 was first revealed, the backlash wouldn’t be as bad.

Dear gods, no. Make these announcements as late as possible. In fact the best decision would be to never mention it if the goal is to avoid backlash. The hardcore fans would find out after the game releases that half the pokemon are missing from the game's code, but be far less inclined to whine about it when there's a pokemon game right there in our hands to actually play rather than just talk about. Never take without giving, that is one of the most important tenets of international diplomacy. Delivering bad news before it is pertinent is something you only do for those you care about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Dear gods, no. Make these announcements as late as possible. In fact the best decision would be to never mention it if the goal is to avoid backlash. The hardcore fans would find out after the game releases that half the pokemon are missing from the game's code, but be far less inclined to whine about it when there's a pokemon game right there in our hands to actually play rather than just talk about. Never take without giving, that is one of the most important tenets of international diplomacy. Delivering bad news before it is pertinent is something you only do for those you care about.

I'd be far, far more angry if i found out about such a dealbreacker after i bought the game, because i lost money on something that i did not want to support. It's the kind of things that put a devoloper on the "EA list". 

Edited by Flere210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

I'd be far, far more angry if i found out about such a dealbreacker after i bought the game, because i lost money on something that i did not want to support. It's the kind of things that put a devoloper on the "EA list". 

But the way I see it, hiding this information results in far less lost sales. Not only did you end up buying the product in this scenario, but several less invested players will not have ever heard of this issue since people won't be talking nearly as much about it now that the game has come and gone. You might see Game Freak's reputation as tarnished, but far fewer people will agree with you since the game is out and has reviewed and sold as well as can be expected from Pokemon. And did Game Freak coming clean about the pokedex so early in reality help you agree with and support their decision?

I think Masuda really sees himself as the good guy for coming clean about regional dexes. I can't fault him for honesty, but boy has he not been trying hard to assuage people's fears about never seeing their favorites again for a whole generation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I shouldn't be surprised, they're not that good at doing messages. 😛
At least they have the guts to be frank about it. Still disapointed though, doing a 'yeah we heard ya but we won't change' is very oof, if you catch my drift.

On 7/2/2019 at 4:11 PM, Perkilator said:

Guys, just to give you an idea about how out if hand this is getting, I decided to share this recent tweet I found.

How is that possible though ? Don't they have private messages or what ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of people here don't seem to quite understand why this is causing such a shitstorm so allow me to explain.

Starting off, there is basically no excuse for this cut to happen for the first place. Game Freak has the models for every single pokemon already. We know this. They were in Sun and Moon and guess what the models in Sword and Shield are the same damn models. X and Y specifically had super holy poly models made for the very purpose of futureproofing the series. So they already have the models and all trailer footage has shown they clearly have not put a lot of time into upscaling anything at all. It may be a space issue since Game Freak is  known to have some bad coding habits that result in bloated file sizes  but that's unlikely has it generally only results in a few MB of bloat, not anything that would make it impossible for Pokemon to fit. Not to mention that the pokemon themselves don't take up that much space.

So it's not space, and it's not a matter of making new models. The only reason this could have happened is because of time restraints or just sheer laziness. Time restraints may be it, the game has to be out within a certain timeframe because they need a new region for Ash to travel to in the anime, they need to make new movies and sell new plushies. It may be that even though they're reusing models, the time it takes to code their moves may prohibit putting them in. This then brings up the issue of why is time so short anyways?

The national dex cut is the start of a fucking black hole of Game Freak's development issues and the expectations of the Pokemon franchise. Simply put, people rightfully expect, that with new hardware that has pushed all of Nintendo's other franchises to what many consider their peak, that the world's largest grossing media franchise (Pokemon is estimated to have grossed 90 Billion Dollars) would have a main series title similarity ambitious or at least high quality. Fans instead got smacked in the face with news that Sword and Shield would be not only be cutting even more features, it'd be cutting the Pokemon itself, while retaining 3DS Era (if not worse) graphics and animations

Sword and Shield is outclassed graphically by games on the Wii with animations that are still hilariously primative. It's outclassed in both graphical fidelity and animation quality by Battle Revolution, a game that came out 13 years ago, and holds 493 Pokemon. It's likely to cut features from Sun and Moon, which already cut features from X and Y, which already cut features from Black and White. Features such as Seasons, Battle Frontier, Difficulty Options, Horde Battles, Triple Battles, Rotation Battles, Pokemon Contests, Pokeathlon, etc., etc.

Maybe the game is so short on time because the games are now on a yearly release schedule with 2015 being the only year this decade to not have a main series Pokemon title released in it. If that's the case, then Pokemon is doing worse than even Call of Duty, because CoD at the very least has 3 developers cycling, meaning each game has a 3 year dev cycle. Sword and Shield may have had at most a 2 year dev cycle with Let's Go being used as a small release to tide people over.

Maybe time is short because reportdly Game Freak only employs 143 people, and we have no idea how many of those are working on Town, Game Freak's other project. For reference, God of War (PS4) had over 300 people on the project, and God Of War is far from Pokemon in terms of sales figures.

In truth, only Game Freak can say why this is happening, but evidence points towards most of it being incompetence, laziness, and poor management not just on Game Freak's, but on The Pokemon Company's and Nintendo's parts. Regardless, the issue has opened Pandora's box and Masuda's statement isn't closing it. How any PR Team basically let him say "lol, we're not doing shit" is baffling. Fans of the series have very good reason to be mad, although the way some have acted is quite regrettable.

 

(this is my first post in 2 years lmao)

(I don't know why I wrote this up I haven't bought a main series pokemon game since Black and White lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Soapbar said:

(this is my first post in 2 years lmao)

Welcome back!

There's also the matter that not having the entire Pokémon roster will apparently be the standard going forward for future games, so time constraints don't seem to be the main issue or defining factor. So what is the problem then?

Based on the statements about Town being Game Freak's primary focus, I think Game Freak is just apathetic to Pokémon at this point, but they aren't willing to give the games to another developer (they still want that money after all). Why bother putting effort in if the games are going to sell tens of millions no matter what you do? The only way I see this policy changing is if sales tank (which they won't) and Nintendo decides to step in somehow.

One big issue I have is that transferring a Pokémon from Bank/Let's Go/etc. to Home is a one way trip. Why is this a bad thing? Well, if you decide to transfer your favorite Pokémon to Home and it isn't in Sword and Shield, you have to keep up that subscription until Game Freak decides to include your favorite(s) in a new game that's compatible with Home, lest you run the risk of it being deleted. Maybe selling people back their favorites is another reason for the "revolving Pokédex" policy.

Edited by Lightchao42

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Soapbar said:

*snip*

32 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

*snip*

 

What’s funny is they have the team split in two, The Gear Project, and Pokémon  Team. The former is to allow the developers to take a break from Pokémon in the downtime between releases, to work on new projects and gain new skills to make Pokémon games better.

Except the games are getting worse, so all this shows is that Pokémon is no longer their priority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Soapbar said:

A lot of people here don't seem to quite understand why this is causing such a shitstorm so allow me to explain.

Starting off, there is basically no excuse for this cut to happen for the first place. Game Freak has the models for every single pokemon already. We know this. They were in Sun and Moon and guess what the models in Sword and Shield are the same damn models. X and Y specifically had super holy poly models made for the very purpose of futureproofing the series. So they already have the models and all trailer footage has shown they clearly have not put a lot of time into upscaling anything at all. It may be a space issue since Game Freak is  known to have some bad coding habits that result in bloated file sizes  but that's unlikely has it generally only results in a few MB of bloat, not anything that would make it impossible for Pokemon to fit. Not to mention that the pokemon themselves don't take up that much space.

 So it's not space, and it's not a matter of making new models. The only reason this could have happened is because of time restraints or just sheer laziness. Time restraints may be it, the game has to be out within a certain timeframe because they need a new region for Ash to travel to in the anime, they need to make new movies and sell new plushies. It may be that even though they're reusing models, the time it takes to code their moves may prohibit putting them in. This then brings up the issue of why is time so short anyways?

The national dex cut is the start of a fucking black hole of Game Freak's development issues and the expectations of the Pokemon franchise. Simply put, people rightfully expect, that with new hardware that has pushed all of Nintendo's other franchises to what many consider their peak, that the world's largest grossing media franchise (Pokemon is estimated to have grossed 90 Billion Dollars) would have a main series title similarity ambitious or at least high quality. Fans instead got smacked in the face with news that Sword and Shield would be not only be cutting even more features, it'd be cutting the Pokemon itself, while retaining 3DS Era (if not worse) graphics and animations

Sword and Shield is outclassed graphically by games on the Wii with animations that are still hilariously primative. It's outclassed in both graphical fidelity and animation quality by Battle Revolution, a game that came out 13 years ago, and holds 493 Pokemon. It's likely to cut features from Sun and Moon, which already cut features from X and Y, which already cut features from Black and White. Features such as Seasons, Battle Frontier, Difficulty Options, Horde Battles, Triple Battles, Rotation Battles, Pokemon Contests, Pokeathlon, etc., etc.

Maybe the game is so short on time because the games are now on a yearly release schedule with 2015 being the only year this decade to not have a main series Pokemon title released in it. If that's the case, then Pokemon is doing worse than even Call of Duty, because CoD at the very least has 3 developers cycling, meaning each game has a 3 year dev cycle. Sword and Shield may have had at most a 2 year dev cycle with Let's Go being used as a small release to tide people over.

Maybe time is short because reportdly Game Freak only employs 143 people, and we have no idea how many of those are working on Town, Game Freak's other project. For reference, God of War (PS4) had over 300 people on the project, and God Of War is far from Pokemon in terms of sales figures.

 In truth, only Game Freak can say why this is happening, but evidence points towards most of it being incompetence, laziness, and poor management not just on Game Freak's, but on The Pokemon Company's and Nintendo's parts. Regardless, the issue has opened Pandora's box and Masuda's statement isn't closing it. How any PR Team basically let him say "lol, we're not doing shit" is baffling. Fans of the series have very good reason to be mad, although the way some have acted is quite regrettable.

  

(this is my first post in 2 years lmao)

(I don't know why I wrote this up I haven't bought a main series pokemon game since Black and White lol)

If I could, I would try to make this a sticky.

Dexit only led to more questioning and it's led to more people realising the issues that have plagued the series for generations, I'd argue especially since the 3DS. Not just features dropped and left behind but even nice little tweaks that haven't been brought back and there's certainly more that probably should have been dealt with by this point. Hell, we're now seeing arguments about this continuously and there's no sign it's being let go. I certainly don't remember it being anywhere near this bad before.

If it turns out that this was the sacrifice to make 3 Houses hype I think I'm okay with that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/07/a_sequel_to_pokemon_snap_wont_happen_unless_theres_a_very_unique_twist

No plans for a Pokemon Snap 2 currently. For such a game to be warranted, it would need "a very unique twist". The Nintendo Labo Camera Toy-Con not being unique enough apparently, nor had the Wii U Gamepad been unique enough.

 

 

I don't mean to partake of the bitterness S&S is generating, but as a would-be historian, the tale of the rise and decline of a gaming franchise in all its nuances does interest me.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On 7/6/2019 at 6:09 PM, Dai said:

What’s funny is they have the team split in two, The Gear Project, and Pokémon  Team. The former is to allow the developers to take a break from Pokémon in the downtime between releases, to work on new projects and gain new skills to make Pokémon games better.

Except the games are getting worse, so all this shows is that Pokémon is no longer their priority.

Game Freak wanting to take a break from Pokemon games I'd totally get. We get burned out on the games pretty regularly, imagine the burnout if you have to make them every year. Inputting the same pokemon into the code, making sure hundreds of moves and items still work as intended, writing creative pokedex entries. It just doesn't follow that they would increase the production of these pokemon games rather than decrease. Seems exploitative.

11 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/07/a_sequel_to_pokemon_snap_wont_happen_unless_theres_a_very_unique_twist

No plans for a Pokemon Snap 2 currently. For such a game to be warranted, it would need "a very unique twist". The Nintendo Labo Camera Toy-Con not being unique enough apparently, nor had the Wii U Gamepad been unique enough.

I'm starting to think they don't mean waiting for the right controller. The N64 didn't have the right controller, the only game that was built for was a freakin' flight simulator if I had to take a guess. I guess that's why Pilotwings was a launch title.

Edited by Glennstavos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/07/game_freak_isnt_reusing_3ds_models_in_pokemon_sword_and_shield

So the Pokemon models might not be recycled apparently? 

It's possible they're newly constructed to look like the old stuff. Could they not transfer the 3DS assets to Switch, or did Game Freak simply lack the expertise for that?

Then the question becomes "why not make everything look better?" if you're making everything from scratch. Time restrains forcing you to not contemplate how to upscale every Poke, and instead stick with what has worked?

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
Critical post that follows prompted the edit. My error for anything inaccurate in the original version.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

So the Pokemon models aren't recycled apparently, they're newly constructed to look like the old stuff.

I feel that if Game Freak had opened with that, they could've saved themselves a lot of backlash.

28 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Then the question becomes "why not make everything look better?" if you're making everything from scratch. Time restrains forcing you to not contemplate how to upscale every Poke, and instead stick with what has worked?

If i had to guess, it's because half of Game Freak is working Town apparently. Which then begs the question as to why they don't hire more? Or outsource?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TL;DR source is garbage, and porting 3DS models to switch is already proven to be possible

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/07/game_freak_isnt_reusing_3ds_models_in_pokemon_sword_and_shield

So the Pokemon models aren't recycled apparently, they're newly constructed to look like the old stuff. Could they not transfer the 3DS assets to Switch, or did Game Freak simply lack the expertise for that?

Then the question becomes "why not make everything look better?" if you're making everything from scratch. Time restrains forcing you to not contemplate how to upscale every Poke, and instead stick with what has worked?

Except, no, this doesn't make sense for multiple reasons.

First off, the reddit post linked in this article links to a Nintendoeverything summary of Silconera article. Said Silconera article is itself a summary (because Nintendoeverything is just fucking lazy) of a translated Famitsu interview. Silconera never provided their own translation, just summarized it.

https://www.siliconera.com/2019/06/16/game-freak-says-it-will-be-hard-for-all-pokemon-to-appear-even-in-games-after-pokemon-sword-shield/

Here is the original Siliconera article. There is a mention of "a need to redo the models" but since we have no idea how accurate Siliconera's translation is this could mean several different things.

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Could they not transfer the 3DS assets to Switch, or did Game Freak simply lack the expertise for that?

Exporting 3D models is not hard. The 3D models in the 3DS titles all come in a .dae file which basically every modern 3D modeling software accepts. The 3DS models have been ripped and ported into everything from Blender to Source Filmmaker. There are tutorials online on how to do it and there is an an entire database of ripped pokemon models online

Not only that, but Let's Go P/E have already been proven to use the 3DS models, so porting 3DS assets to switch is already proven to be possible

There is no possible situation in which Game Freak cannot port over models to the Switch. This discounts the fact that GF and Creatures both have access to the source files (as in, the original models, made in whatever 3D modeling software the company uses), so GF doesn't even have to rip their own models from the 3DS.

 

Edited by Soapbar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So with new pokemon announcements I tend to think they come with likely "deconfirmations" of existing pokemon returning that are similar in concept. A rock dude, a pastry, and an electric puppy. That would deconfirm geodude, roggenrola, vanillite, slurpuff, and electrike lines, right? Only I look at Serebii's helpful list of confirmed pokemon in the game, and all of those pokemon are actually confirmed except the geodude line. This is surprising, I thought they would be looking to avoid redundancies in having very similar pokemon included alongside the new ones.

The idea that they need to redo the animations from scratch is mostly the first blush reactions of people reacting to the news last month. But several people on Youtube made the side by side comparisons. And the recycling of animations isn't limited to the Pokemon, either. If GameFreak has ever claimed they need to redo this stuff from scratch, it's a bogus claim. Over exaggerations of the work needed to port them to the Switch. I've seen somebody prove that the models for Pikachu and Eevee's faces were improved for Let's Go, since in those games they are very expressive pokemon whose faces you could rub, but otherwise completely reused models are the norm across the board for Switch pokemon titles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...