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Seiken Densetsu 3/Trials of Mana finally localized

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6 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

Seems like everyone here has good things to say about the Mana series. Makes me want to try the series out even though I still need to finish Octopath Traveler and I just started Final Fantasy 5 very recently.

Maybe its because I played them often. But I find that the Games in the Mana series. At least these 3 don't take too long to play through. 
And this is a good starting point. But you can take your time if you want to play through what you want to finish.

Little fact: Koichi Ishii who was the producer of the Mana series is the creator of Moogle and Chocobos. Now he is with Grezzo who works on the Link's Awakening remake.

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7 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

Seems like everyone here has good things to say about the Mana series. Makes me want to try the series out even though I still need to finish Octopath Traveler and I just started Final Fantasy 5 very recently.

One of the big things is unlike most RPGs they are something to experience with friends, it is such a great group experience.  Fighting over royal jam and chocolates, being wowed by the bosses story reveals, saying who gets to be the guy, who the girl, who the unspecified, etc.  

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7 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

Seems like everyone here has good things to say about the Mana series. Makes me want to try the series out even though I still need to finish Octopath Traveler and I just started Final Fantasy 5 very recently.

From what I can tell, the first three, those which comprised the Collection of Mana are considered, for whatever issues they have, solid and fun games. Legend of Mana on the PS1 is held in good graces too.

Sword of Mana, a radical remake of the first game on the GBA, seems to fluctuate a bit, but generally considered good. Children of Mana on the DS is eh, but not terrible.

Dawn of Mana for the PS2 is the "Demise of Mana", where this second tier and budget franchise ends up badly floundering and largely dying off on new titles.

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3 hours ago, Stroud said:

Maybe its because I played them often. But I find that the Games in the Mana series. At least these 3 don't take too long to play through. 
And this is a good starting point. But you can take your time if you want to play through what you want to finish.

So how many hours would you say it would take to beat one of the Mana games? Since these are old games I would assume around 20 hours since that's how long it took me to beat Square's other games like Super Mario RPG and the SNES Final Fantasy games.

 

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

One of the big things is unlike most RPGs they are something to experience with friends, it is such a great group experience.  Fighting over royal jam and chocolates, being wowed by the bosses story reveals, saying who gets to be the guy, who the girl, who the unspecified, etc.  

Interesting, maybe I should talk my brother into playing this game with me since I believe Secret of Mana is on the SNES Classic Edition.

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20 minutes ago, NSSKG151 said:

 

Interesting, maybe I should talk my brother into playing this game with me since I believe Secret of Mana is on the SNES Classic Edition.

Oh yeah definitely!  Solo SD3 and SD2 are phenomenal but that they are multiplayer experiences give it infinite replayability and generally makes it even more fun.  Secret supports 3 players. 

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4 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

So how many hours would you say it would take to beat one of the Mana games? Since these are old games I would assume around 20 hours since that's how long it took me to beat Square's other games like Super Mario RPG and the SNES Final Fantasy games.

I'm currently playing through Trials of Mana in the Collection, and I'm at 34 hours and at the entrance to the penultimate dungeon. I did spend a few hours grinding here and there in sub-optimal locations (so that I can get all of my characters' experience point values the same), so it's probably somewhere between 25-35 hours if you know what you're doing.

 

41 minutes ago, Magical CC said:

Well, at least Angela was not censored.

We'll have to wait to see what they do with Pink Typhoon before we can say that.

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4 hours ago, NSSKG151 said:

So how many hours would you say it would take to beat one of the Mana games? Since these are old games I would assume around 20 hours since that's how long it took me to beat Square's other games like Super Mario RPG and the SNES Final Fantasy games.

I'd say 25 hours or so sounds about right for a casual first-time playthrough of either Secret or Trials. What's especially interesting about Trials is that between the 6 main characters, there are 3 final dungeons/bosses split between them. Factoring in that the character you pick first is your leader and thus gets the most dialogue (which can also change in minor ways depending on who else you bring with you), there's a lot of replayability.

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1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

We'll have to wait to see what they do with Pink Typhoon before we can say that.

...isn't that the attack were she litterally do damage by flashing her butt at the enemy ?
There's also her magus clothes, but yeah, that's an easier way to know if it was censored or not. 😛

So, I'm curious ! How is it how is it ? The translation, the dialogues, all of that, how is it ?

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

From what I can tell, the first three, those which comprised the Collection of Mana are considered, for whatever issues they have, solid and fun games. Legend of Mana on the PS1 is held in good graces too.

Sword of Mana, a radical remake of the first game on the GBA, seems to fluctuate a bit, but generally considered good. Children of Mana on the DS is eh, but not terrible.

Dawn of Mana for the PS2 is the "Demise of Mana", where this second tier and budget franchise ends up badly floundering and largely dying off on new titles.

Honestly, I don't really like Sword of Mana,It's a remake of the first Seiken Densetsu that was on gameboy... who was called Mystic Quest somehow (it was those famous time), too much riddles that don't make much sense, it's slow, and I feel like the only thing it does is being pretty. But meh, that's just me. Still a pretty cool games. Children of Mana is indeed pretty eh, it's beat em up than anything, and it gets really boring after a while.

Secret of Mana and Legend of Mana, now, that's some kickass games !

Edited by B.Leu

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4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm currently playing through Trials of Mana in the Collection, and I'm at 34 hours and at the entrance to the penultimate dungeon. I did spend a few hours grinding here and there in sub-optimal locations (so that I can get all of my characters' experience point values the same), so it's probably somewhere between 25-35 hours if you know what you're doing.

I see... Seems it goes on for a decent amount of time. I can't really deal with RPGs that go on for 80+ hours anymore so it is nice to know these games aren't terribly long.

3 hours ago, Johann said:

I'd say 25 hours or so sounds about right for a casual first-time playthrough of either Secret or Trials. What's especially interesting about Trials is that between the 6 main characters, there are 3 final dungeons/bosses split between them. Factoring in that the character you pick first is your leader and thus gets the most dialogue (which can also change in minor ways depending on who else you bring with you), there's a lot of replayability.

Sounds neat that there are multiple ending paths though depending how much I end up liking the gameplay and/or story I don't know if I will play it several times.

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Definitely getting this when it releases. Never played this game before but I've heard of it (and Riesz for that matter) and only good things about it so I'll give it a shot.

Not sure who will be in the party but except for Riesz. Japan seems to love her.

 

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8 hours ago, B.Leu said:

...isn't that the attack were she litterally do damage by flashing her butt at the enemy ?

And blows a kiss at them, which does the damage.

 

8 hours ago, B.Leu said:

So, I'm curious ! How is it how is it ? The translation, the dialogues, all of that, how is it ?

I'm playing the Japanese version (because I can and because I like physical copies), so I can't really comment about the localization.

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On 6/27/2019 at 1:05 PM, Ice Dragon said:

I'm playing the Japanese version (because I can and because I like physical copies), so I can't really comment about the localization.

Gameplay-wise, have you noticed if any of the numerous bugs have been addressed (evasion, critical hits, shields, casting spam...)?

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11 minutes ago, starburst said:

Gameplay-wise, have you noticed if any of the numerous bugs have been addressed (evasion, critical hits, shields, casting spam...)?

I assume by casting spam you mean the fact that the casting timer continues to count down when you are in the radial menu, and I can confirm that that's still there (because I was abusing the crap out of it).

My guess is that the other bugs are still present, but I haven't paid attention to them because they didn't really affect gameplay for me (and I'm not actually aware of most of them in the first place).

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2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

My guess is that the other bugs are still present, but I haven't paid attention to them because they didn't really affect gameplay for me (and I'm not actually aware of most of them in the first place).

Ignorance is a bliss, I guess. I played this game multiple times back in the day, about twenty years ago. I did notice the bugs but enjoyed the gameplay anyway.

Evasion does not really work and is ignored on calculations; Hawk is supposed to be a dodge tank, but enemy attacks hardly ever miss. Duran's shields should increase his Evasion, but do nothing instead. Critical hits percentage is infinitesimal; how many times have you seen one? Kevin has a high critical hit rate and his very first skill doubles it, yet he delivers none.
There were certainly more bugs.

Edited by starburst

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VERY late to this party, but SUPER excited about the Trails of Mana remake AND the translation for the original!

Played the translation rom many times years ago and I loved it! Never beat it, but I almost did one time.

I flipped out seeing this be a reality in the direct and was happy I woke up the next day after the announcement to see it still be a thing(along with a few other things)!

Haven't been able to play the collection yet, but when that chance arrives...IT'LL BE GO TIME! :B):

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12 hours ago, starburst said:

Evasion does not really work and is ignored on calculations; Hawk is supposed to be a dodge tank, but enemy attacks hardly ever miss. Duran's shields should increase his Evasion, but do nothing instead.

I don't really pay attention to when my units evade attacks. It happens and I sometimes notice, but things tend to die too quickly for me to care (happens when Angela is spamming magic) and the things that are actually threatening near the end of the game use what I presume are undodgeable attacks.

 

12 hours ago, starburst said:

Critical hits percentage is infinitesimal; how many times have you seen one? Kevin has a high critical hit rate and his very first skill doubles it, yet he delivers none.

I didn't even know about the existence of critical hits until right before beating the game when the guide I was reading mentioned them existing.

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3 hours ago, Busterman64 said:

VERY late to this party, but SUPER excited about the Trails of Mana remake AND the translation for the original!

Played the translation rom many times years ago and I loved it! Never beat it, but I almost did one time.

Please do! It is sad that it was not physically released in Europe, for I would have purchased it during the first week. Like you, I played it multiple times nearly twenty years ago, and it brings back fond memories.

And the remake looks amazing, mate. It reminds me of the Ys series, which I really enjoy.

 

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't really pay attention to when my units evade attacks. It happens and I sometimes notice, but things tend to die too quickly for me to care (happens when Angela is spamming magic) and the things that are actually threatening near the end of the game use what I presume are undodgeable attacks.

I didn't even know about the existence of critical hits until right before beating the game when the guide I was reading mentioned them existing.

You should see a 'Miss!' message on every dodge (just like you often see on enemies.)
And did you not find it odd that Kevin's first skill doubles his critical hit rate and yet he delivered none?

In any case, these bugs are noticeable but not game breaking. And it may well be that the game was balanced with these bugs in mind: Perhaps Kevin's Strength was buffed when the critical hits were deemed non-existent, or characters were given more HP after Evasion bonuses were disregarded. We will never know.

I still find it odd that exploitable bugs were kept, like 'spam casting' and the 'Chibikko cure.'

Edited by starburst

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54 minutes ago, starburst said:

You should see a 'Miss!' message on every dodge (just like you often see on enemies.)

I know they're there; I just don't notice them because there are usually more important things to be paying attention to (like re-opening the radial menu to have Angela nuke something else into low orbit).

 

54 minutes ago, starburst said:

And did you not find it odd that Kevin's first skill doubles his critical hit rate and yet he delivered none?

  1. I haven't played Kevin yet.
  2. I didn't actually realize that skills had descriptions until halfway through the game. (Playing the game in Japanese means I gloss over text that I'm not intentionally trying to read.)
  3. I still have never actually noticed a critical hit ever because I don't really pay attention to damage numbers except from attacks that pause the action (or when I'm cycling magic to find which one does the most damage).

Angela spam is one hell of a drug.

 

54 minutes ago, starburst said:

I still find it odd that exploitable bugs were kept, like 'spam casting' and the 'Chibikko cure.'

I don't think they made any changes to the game when they ported it over into the Collection.

I also don't think the Chibikko Hammer exploit is technically a bug. There's nothing wrong with what it does and it just does what it says it does. The exploit is simply a result of the fact that you can only have a single visible status effect at a time. (Presumably, you can do the exact same thing with the Moogle Badge.)

It's not too different from letting Angela die and reviving her to fill her MP back up to max after you run out of Walnuts.

Edited by Ice Dragon

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30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I don't think they made any changes to the game when they ported it over into the Collection.

Fair enough. And I am sorry if I sounded negative. I really enjoyed this game back in the day. I simply wish that these bugs had been addressed. Oh, well, let us hope that the remake plays as good as it looks.

Talking about looks, I did not like that they made Duran shirtless. And I am really curious about how they will handle Angela's wardrobe. Having a teenager wear the Magus outfit and keeping the game rating for kids is going to be an interesting task.

 

30 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Angela spam is one hell of a drug. 

Since you like Angela so much, what is your usual setup? At the beginning I went with the easier Light classes with multi-target spells. Something like Ninja Master, Star Lancer and Light Angela wipes screens. But I do have some love for Rune Master, and sometimes I went with something like Rune Master, Nightblade and Duelist. However unbalanced this party may be, they looked great and being niche was actually a challenge.
And some other times I got bored of MP management and went Duran, Kevin and Hawk/ Lise and completed the game a couple of hours faster than with a casting party.

I cannot remember how many times I played this game. The re playability is fantastic. Aw, man, I want to play it again now.

Edited by starburst

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26 minutes ago, starburst said:

Talking about looks, I did not like that they made Duran shirtless.

He's got the same crop top that he wears in the Collection of Mana cover artwork.

 

32 minutes ago, starburst said:

And I am really curious about how they will handle Angela's wardrobe. Having a teenager wear the Magus outfit and keeping the game rating for kids is going to be an interesting task.

It's not too different from Riesz's Fenrir Knight outfit which they had better keep.

 

36 minutes ago, starburst said:

Since you like Angela so much, what is your usual setup? At the beginning I went with the easier Light classes with multi-target spells. Something like Ninja Master, Star Lancer and Light Angela wipes screens. But I do have some love for Rune Master, and sometimes I went with something like Rune Master, Nightblade and Duelist. However unbalanced this party may be, they looked great and being niche was actually a challenge.
And some other times I got bored of MP management and went Duran, Kevin and Hawk/ Lise and completed the game a couple of hours faster than with a casting party.

I cannot remember how many times I played this game. The re playability is fantastic. Aw, man, I want to play it again now.

I've only beaten the game once so far.

My old playthrough from some 15 years or so ago that I never finished used Riesz (Star Lancer), Duran (Swordmaster), and Angela (Grand Divina). Lack of healing was a huge problem for the team, and I ended up not finishing the game after reaching the Cave of Darkness where I hit a wall. (That was back in high school when my strategy for most games was bash my head against the wall until something broke.)

In my most recent playthrough in the Collection that I finished about a week ago, I reprised my old team, but redid the classes with Riesz (Fenrir Knight), Duran (Lord), and Angela (Grand Divina).

I may or may not start a new playthrough soon. Not sure who I'll bring this time around.

 

And as much as I gush about Angela (because she literally carried every boss fight in my last playthrough), Riesz is still best girl (and Power Down was pretty much the only thing that got me through those godforsaken werewolves spamming their godforsaken tier-3 full-screen techs).

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5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

He's got the same crop top that he wears in the Collection of Mana cover artwork.

It may be selective memory, but I could swear that he wears a blue shirt on his base class. Never had I seen his abs exposed like in the remake.

 

5 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

And as much as I gush about Angela (because she literally carried every boss fight in my last playthrough), Riesz is still best girl (and Power Down was pretty much the only thing that got me through those godforsaken werewolves spamming their godforsaken tier-3 full-screen techs).

I am pretty sure that those techs are always counters. It is a balance measure to prevent tech spamming from your side, but in practice it translates to using Level 1 Techs 99 % of the time, and using Level 2 and 3 Techs if, and only if, you are certain that they will kill the enemy, or for amusement. This is further stressed by the fact that only Level 1 Techs get the Saber bonuses.

And, yeah, Lise is best girl. I also prefer her story and final chapter over Angela's.
I completed the game like ten times, but never with Carlie as my main. She always was my least favourite character.

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1 hour ago, starburst said:

It may be selective memory, but I could swear that he wears a blue shirt on his base class. Never had I seen his abs exposed like in the remake.

In his base class artwork, the belts holding his pauldrons are loose and one of them dangles in front of him in the exact right position to cover his midriff. If you look at his side, you'll see that his shirt doesn't go all the way down to his belt.

In his new art, they made his shirt cover more of his side underneath his arm, but cut the bottom of it a bit higher to show off his abs a bit more.

 

1 hour ago, starburst said:

I am pretty sure that those techs are always counters.

I'm pretty sure I've walked into a map and gotten hit with a Seiryuu Satsujinken while I was still starting up my casting routine. I've also had a werewolf hit me three times in a row with it without a chance to retaliate in between.

These things are really mean.

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Aw, man, seriously ? They did not fixed the shields ? Come on...
(But I'm happy they kept the spell casting menu glitch
 

16 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It's not too different from Riesz's Fenrir Knight outfit which they had better keep.

My old playthrough from some 15 years or so ago that I never finished used Riesz (Star Lancer), Duran (Swordmaster), and Angela (Grand Divina). Lack of healing was a huge problem for the team, and I ended up not finishing the game after reaching the Cave of Darkness where I hit a wall. (That was back in high school when my strategy for most games was bash my head against the wall until something broke.)

In my most recent playthrough in the Collection that I finished about a week ago, I reprised my old team, but redid the classes with Riesz (Fenrir Knight), Duran (Lord), and Angela (Grand Divina).



Man of culture, 10/10. Whould talk to again.
Didn't knew you were into Suicide Team... was it fun to play ? It wasn't for me at the time either. I'm happy to see I'm not the only one trapped by it.

I'm surprised you decided to go Lord for Duran, most people ignore it, me included... which is weird since it have multi-healing, which is perfect for such a team.

It's cool to do damage, but when you got destroyed... Duelist Duran, as badass as he was, was utterly useless along with his Dark Saber.

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