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Any Good Strategy Games (No Intelligent Systems)


Ilboss
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I am relatively new to strategy games and I want to branch out from Intelligent Systems. Any recommendations? 

Games that interest me. (Tell me if they are good.)

Wargroove

Into The Breach

Final Fantasy Tactics

Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

Valkyria Chronicles

Xcom 1+2

Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle

Tactics Ogre The Knight Of Lodis

 

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Both XCOM games are excellent, but if I had to choose one I would probably pick the 2nd because it is a bit more refined. However, the two games are different enough to warrant playing both (the first has XCOM defending Earth from Aliens, and the second has the XCOM resistance rise up against their Alien overlords). There are also some features and enemies in the first game that don't appear in the second, and vice versa.

On a similar vein, Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle plays like XCOM from what I heard. If you can get past the Rabbids, I hear it is an absolutely fantastic game to play.

If you want a complete free, open source, turn-based strategy game, I recommend Battle for Wenoth (Website, Steam). It has been around for years and has tons of single player and multiplayer content. If the official stuff isn't enough, there's also tons of User-Made Content (UMC) available as well.

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34 minutes ago, Ilboss said:

Games that interest me. (Tell me if they are good.)

Xcom 1+2

I haven't played 2 yet but Enemy Unknown rocks. So does the Enemy Within expansion but I feel like that may be too much to take in for a first playthrough. The base game is definitely enough and it typically gets cut down immensely during sales since it's such an old game. It's a very difficult game with intense consequences for misplacing units or just getting unlucky. And of course there's permadeath. Personally I drop a save at the start of each mission because sometimes the spawn points of enemies can just be ridiculous, since they get a free movement action when they're revealed. Only under very specific circumstances can you get a pre-emptive strike on enemies and I think that's probably my biggest issue in terms of gameplay. Everything else about the game is very fun and replayable.

Quote

Mario+Rabbids Kingdom Battle

I love the gameplay mechanics in this game, and the characters and humor can be very cute and fun. The movement actions are a little wonky with how you can run up to an enemy and then run back to any point of cover that's within your initial movement range, but it feels great to chain team jumps and combo abilities and status afflictions into reaction shots. The level design really favors movement based characters and aggressive strategies which is a nice break from XCOM. Biggest issue with this game is how slow character progression feels. This is a 20 hour game and you can't meaningfully change a character's strengths and weaknesses. Unlike Fire Emblem where any unit can become good if you just keep investing in them. Also Mario can't be removed from your three-person party so you can never get too creative with team loadouts. Overall the gameplay feels too samey for a game this length in my opinion. There's also a ton of challenging bonus content in the game itself that I barely scratched the surface of. I can see it's on a very big sale now on the eshop (67% off), so I'd take the plunge if this game already has you interested.

Edited by Glennstavos
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40 minutes ago, Sire said:

Both XCOM games are excellent, but if I had to choose one I would probably pick the 2nd because it is a bit more refined. However, the two games are different enough to warrant playing both (the first has XCOM defending Earth from Aliens, and the second has the XCOM resistance rise up against their Alien overlords). There are also some features and enemies in the first game that don't appear in the second, and vice versa.

Can I play XCOM 2 before the first one? (Thanks for the answer btw:)

 

35 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I love the gameplay mechanics in this game, and the characters and humor can be very cute and fun. The movement actions are a little wonky with how you can run up to an enemy and then run back to any point of cover that's within your initial movement range, but it feels great to chain team jumps and combo abilities and status afflictions into reaction shots. Biggest issue with this game is how slow character progression feels. This is a 20 hour game and you can't meaningfully change a character's strengths and weaknesses. Unlike Fire Emblem where any unit can become good if you just keep investing in them. Also Mario can't be removed from your three-person party so you can never get too creative with team loadouts. Overall the gameplay feels too samey for a game this length in my opinion. There's also a ton of challenging bonus content in the game itself that I barely scratched the surface of. I can see it's on a very big sale now on the eshop, so I'd take the plunge if this game already has you interested.

It is always on sale, I am probably going to pick it up this sale, if I don't i'll probably pick it up next time. Thanks for the response.

 

40 minutes ago, Sire said:

If you want a complete free, open source, turn-based strategy game, I recommend Battle for Wenoth (Website, Steam). It has been around for years and has tons of single player and multiplayer content. If the official stuff isn't enough, there's also tons of User-Made Content (UMC) available as well.

Never heard of this game before, I think i'll check it out.

 

MODEDIT: yo don't doublepost

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3 minutes ago, Ilboss said:

Can I play XCOM 2 before the first one? (Thanks for the answer btw:)

You can. The basic premise of the 2nd game is that the player lost the "first war against the aliens" early on in the campaign. So, its almost as if the first game never happened.

You'll miss some references (Bradford is the same guy in both games, Lily Shen is the daughter of the original Engineering guy, and so on) but nothing major.

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1 minute ago, Sire said:

You can. The basic premise of the 2nd game is that the player lost the "first war against the aliens" early on in the campaign. So, its almost as if the first game never happened.

You'll miss some references (Bradford is the same guy in both games, Lily Shen is the daughter of the original Engineering guy, and so on) but nothing major.

Cool!

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into the breach is really good. it has my full endorsement. both the new xcoms are good for different reasons; i honestly think xcom 2 with the expansion is one of my top 5 favorite games of all time. valkyria chronicles 1 is exceptional, except for about two horribly designed maps and a kind of contradictory reward system.

 

i'll also echo the guy throwing wesnoth out there - very good, very free, lots of stuff to do.

 

i will always shill battle brothers to fire emblem people, it's kind of a motherfucker of a game to get into but it's a really good strategy game at its core.

battletech is a bit janky but is full of soul and big robots blowing each other up.

 

it might help to know what it is you like about strategy games, and what you've played - strategy's been my favorite genre for about twenty-five years at this point so i'm full of recs

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30 minutes ago, Integrity said:

i'll also echo the guy throwing wesnoth out there - very good, very free, lots of stuff to do.

I am actually downloading it right now 🙂

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Personally I do not like these two games but you might enjoy them. 

Disgaea is a game series that is more grindy and focuses on leveling up equipment for your characters. I heard it was a good idea.

 

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Seconding XCOM (1 is more straightforward, 2 requires you to know how to use the mechanics to your favor since even an average enemy is stronger than your units), Battle for Wesnoth, Into the Breach, Battle Brothers (although it becomes repetitive and boring very quickly, in my experience).

(If you end up enjoying Wesnoth, I recommend Blood Bowl 2 for more Area of Control fuckery. It makes Wesnoth's hit chances look tame)

 

For games that are very similar to FE, I recommend Shining Force (there's a Nintendo DS version but it's originally for the Genesis iirc).

I recommend checking out Darkest Dungeon as well.

Disgaea may be a thing to you, if you want games similar to FE - it's an isometric, turn based game (well, it's more similar to Final Fantasy Tactics, but still), although it is grindy. There's also the Luminous Arc series, for the Nintendo DS, and Stella Glow, for the 3DS, which are also similar. I liked these two, although the maps were big sometimes and the gameplay felt like a slog compared to FE. iirc Chroma Squad is similar in style, but it's more of a satire of tokusentai shows than a game with an overeaching, fantasy story.

I read through an entire LP of Growlanser Generations (for the PS2). Its story and characters did remind me a lot of FE, and its combat style isn't that far from it. I haven't played it much, though.

Langrisser is very similar to Wargroove (there are games for the SNES, PS1 and other platforms I forgot about right now). You may want to check it out. Yggdra Union (GBA, PSP) has a similar aesthetic (and uses HP the same way Wargroove does), but it uses cards.

FTL: Faster than Light is a strategy game (although not turn based) made by the same creators of Into the Breach. Maybe you got it for free, even.

If you like card games, I heavily recommend Slay the Spire (it was released on the PS4 and Switch as well). It's a roguelike game where you go building your deck throughout the game, basically. I can't do it enough justice by simply explaining it through words.

A similar game that was released a few weeks ago is SteamWorld Quest. Although it's card based, it feels more like a RPG than a card game proper, since the selection of cards is small and the overall combat system feels like a hybrid of traditional Final Fantasy's.

 

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Into The Breach gets my wholehearted recommendation. The right things are random and the right things are reliable, the game has surprisingly good writing where even the generic pilots and autopilot have a personality, and success and failure carrying over to the next game gives it an interesting metagame. Into The Breach also nails

I second the XCOM games, and I'll add Xenonauts if you want something similar to the original X-Com games. I do warn that the game is both easier (logistics are simplified in a good way, civilians are actually competent, pointless things the game originally hid are now shown) and harder (the tech tree can't be cheesed and there are some nasty surprises there for XCOM veterans, corpses are destroyed rather than sold, manufacturing tricks are removed) than the original.

For 4X, Civilization and Master of Orion 1 and 2 (3's only saving grace was the awesome manual, and I can't comment on the remake). It's hard to describe those games without writing an essay, but they provide a unique experience every time that almost no other genre can match, and they have a lot of depth that is enjoyable to explore.

I've heard that Heroes of Might and Magic is good, even though I've only tried 3 for a short while myself, and I'd recommend Eador: Genesis, but that game will tear unprepared players apart.

As for RTS's, FTL: Faster Than Light is my favorite game, period, has extremely fun spaceship combat, and uses real-time with pause in a way I enjoy. It's also a roguelike, and each game is different. Age of Mythology is also fun, and in hindsight pretty beginner friendly, since I'm not the best RTS player yet I had fun with the game. I also had fun with Battle Realms, but admittedly I haven't played that game enough to make a final verdict, other than saying that it's slower paced but in a good way than most other RTS's. Stronghold is also a fun game, has a good deal of charm, and the economic system is easy to understand despite having some complexity.

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30 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

For 4X, Civilization and Master of Orion 1 and 2 (3's only saving grace was the awesome manual, and I can't comment on the remake). It's hard to describe those games without writing an essay, but they provide a unique experience every time that almost no other genre can match, and they have a lot of depth that is enjoyable to explore.

master of magic is way better PEACE

 

30 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

 Xenonauts

so to someone who apparently enjoyed xenonauts - i love the old x-coms, terror from the deep is probably in my top ten of all time - xenonauts just felt lifeless and ...repetitive? to me.

 

i played it for a few (EDIT: eighteen, apparently??) hours back when it was new, and felt like i wasn't progressing towards anything at all, and the spritework was just so aggressively bland. i've never talked to someone who actually enjoyed it so i just want to know, like what was it about xenonauts that was appealing to you?

 

30 minutes ago, Hawkwing said:

I've heard that Heroes of Might and Magic is good, even though I've only tried 3 for a short while myself,

i'll echo this. heroes 3 and 5 are genuinely good, 6 is good in a different way, 2 is good in a retro way, the others are... curiosities.

EDIT: the heroes 3 campaigns are massively fucking kaizo hard though, be warned. i think it's the best game of the lot, but the campaigns are .... a mood.

Edited by Integrity
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3 hours ago, Integrity said:

master of magic is way better PEACE

Remind me to get around to playing that. Among the 20-30 other games I still need to play or finish.

3 hours ago, Integrity said:

so to someone who apparently enjoyed xenonauts - i love the old x-coms, terror from the deep is probably in my top ten of all time - xenonauts just felt lifeless and ...repetitive? to me.

 

i played it for a few (EDIT: eighteen, apparently??) hours back when it was new, and felt like i wasn't progressing towards anything at all, and the spritework was just so aggressively bland. i've never talked to someone who actually enjoyed it so i just want to know, like what was it about xenonauts that was appealing to you?

I could actually tell how time units it took to get a unit from point A to point B, I don't need to worry about logistics with guns and ammo, I can tell how much money it will take to build another base as well as what the radar range will be, civilians are actually competent, I can call airstrikes on downed UFO's if I'm not in a position to go on a raid and/or don't want to risk the lives of my soldiers, there are more options on how to stun aliens, and a few more.

Don't get me wrong. I can easily see why the original X-COM games are popular. And I know that I would probably love the games too... if it didn't hide information like how far my units can move or how much it costs to build a new base or how much radar coverage I actually have and so on. I want to enjoy the game, but I hate that I'm failing less because of my lack of skills and strategy and more because the game isn't showing me stuff like that.

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oh i won't disagree that the tactical side of xenonauts was beyond competent compared to the dos originals, which seems to be much of what you're talking about. i enjoyed most of the eighteen hours of the same fight i did.

 

my problem was that the strategic side of things felt ... not meaningless, but progressionless, which meant that all the tactical fights i had played out basically the same way, since my guys were interchangeable with the same gear, and the gear was not showing any signs of improving anytime. kind of like the long war mods to the newer xcoms that dudes crow about, where you do the same skirmish ten or fifteen or twenty times before you get any equipment to possibly change it up, which means the game is hard? but i don't know if that was how it was designed, like long war, or if it was just me failing somehow at the progression aspect of the game.

 

EDIT: to put it a way, i got the same enjoyment from the limited beta where you just made a squad and sent them into a onetime battle as i did from any bit of the actual release app that i bought, at least to the point where i stopped playing it because i felt like i was doing the same thing over and over again.

Edited by Integrity
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Final Fantasy Tactics is honestly just... not good, aside from its spritework. It's a gorgeous game! But there's painfully little enemy variety, a lot of the maps are out to get you, the story is insufferable in either localisation for a myriad of reasons, and even just little things - you can't see maps before you place down units in formation, and you can't undo moves in a game where very slight elevation changes can fuck you out of nowhere and the camera is only barely functional. TA is fun, and I stand by it, but has massive flaws. It's worth checking out, but if it just isn't clicking for you after the first couple of hours, drop it with a clean conscience. I wholeheartedly recommend FFTA2, though. It's just... a really good, solid game. It benefits hugely from using a wide variety of characters, too - you're encouraged to really push the envelope of your barracks space.

Knights of Lodis is an exceptionally solid 7/10 RPG. Not something to go out of your way to experience, but you will have a good time with it. The PSP Tactics Ogre is also good, bar its exceptionally annoying level system which is somehow still an improvement on what came before.

Personally, I'd recommend Ogre Battle 64, with one caveat - learn how to item dupe. The game is alignment-based, and without intervention everyone will be hard-Lawful by about halfway into the game, and every mechanic suddenly falls apart. But hey! It's a great game aside from that. It's a really interesting combination of real-time (maneuvring around the map) and turn-based (actual combat between squads). Control squads, shuffle them around the map, liberate the world. The SNES Ogre Battle exists, but IMO is just... a little too primitive for what they were trying to realise.

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I think Xenonauts would be too complex for someone who never had contact with XCOM before. Enemy Unknown/Within does a much better job at introducing the player to the game and the mechanics they're going to deal with, whereas Xenonauts throws you in the wilds and expects you to know what you're doing.

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15 hours ago, Parrhesia said:

Personally, I'd recommend Ogre Battle 64, with one caveat - learn how to item dupe. The game is alignment-based, and without intervention everyone will be hard-Lawful by about halfway into the game, and every mechanic suddenly falls apart. But hey! It's a great game aside from that. It's a really interesting combination of real-time (maneuvring around the map) and turn-based (actual combat between squads). Control squads, shuffle them around the map, liberate the world. The SNES Ogre Battle exists, but IMO is just... a little too primitive for what they were trying to realise.

I have a nanomemory of this game as a young kid (~4), which provides a seed of interest, so thanks for your endorsement. Given I'll take your word seriously, I might have to try this out then; but first comes finishing Thracia 776. And FFT, but that was so glacial and brutally difficult I never finished the first part, three of its battles nearly KO'ed everyone I had. The FFT-style of SRPG on the whole has a game speed problem, something which FFTA2 suffered from as well, but it was good fun, I'd like another.

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I didn't mention either game since I never finished them, but I will say that neither Final Fantasy Tactics on PS1 nor Valkyria Chronicles 1 grabbed me despite having mechanics I theoretically liked. In past years I've always been convinced I didn't like strategy games - save for Fire Emblem, but these days I figures it's more like there aren't that many good strategy games to begin with. Certainly not a large quantity either. Fire Emblem is an anomoly for being a strategy franchise that didn't need to be revived despite its long history.

Edit: and also SMT Devil Survivor. Didn't care for that one either.

Edited by Glennstavos
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Tactics Ogre: Let us cling Together (PSP)

Dragon Force (Saturn)

Knights in the Nightmare (DS or PSP)

Total War Shogun 2 (PC)

Starcraft 2 (PC)

Ogre Battle 64 (N64)

Devil Survivor 1 and 2 (DS, 3DS, PSP)

Valkyria Chronicles 1 (PS3)

 

 

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