potential spoilers Byleth's Crest - thoughts

[Arynee]

So, idk if someone made a Post about this already (used SF but didnt come up with much), but after digging through the trailer and materials once again (this was really helpfull to sum it up), i noticed that Protagonist/Byleth's Crest is the ONLY Crest missing in the Art we got where ALL Crests are shown. Its very wierd and when i first saw it i had to double and tripple check bc it didnt seem to make sense to me...

i mean, i think i heared somewhere that the Sword of the MC is the Sword of the Creator - wich kinda makes the Crest that of the Creator i guess {correction: its called Crest of Flames, but the point still stands since its the Sword of the Creator that links with it}, since they need to be synced to work (wich is shown in another trailer)? And theres still the fact that Nemesis wields it (thuss Byleth beeing his decendent) but arnt all Crests gifts from the Goddess? The first trailer states that they revieced a divine gift (although its doesnt say Crests, its a good guess that they are meant, and i think it might have been stated in the Treehouse life footage but i dont want to go over and watch it again)

The only course of events that makes sense to me is that Memesis was choosen by the goddess as the others were, but for some reason rose against them - thuss the battle of the first trailer broke loose where Nemesis is wielding the Sword of the Creator (against Seiros?). And because he lost and was (maybe) branded a Traitor soe something, left out of the Art work (in universe) bc they eitehr believe his line to have died out or want it to be dead/unrecognized.
Otherwise it just wwierds me out that there are 21 Crests on the Artwork, for 10 Heros (wich means that minor crests probably look different and are added too or they somehow got more crests after the 10 Heros?) - but not Byleth's / Nemesis.


Thoughts? Theories? Anything you've noticed that i didnt see?

Edited June 16, 2019 by Arynee
Spoiler warning & title now spoiler free

[Sentinel07]

Byleth's crest has been confirmed as the Crest of Flames.

The European special edition also revealed that this crest is hidden behind the mural.

[Armchair General]

Byleth crest in that mural.

[Arynee]

5 minutes ago, Sentinel07 said:

Byleth's crest has been confirmed as the Crest of Flames.

The European special edition also revealed that this crest is hidden behind the mural. 

That was fast! But are you sure about the Mural? Cause it doesnt seem to lign up and on the site on SF i linked it wasnt written i think ... gotta check tho
EDIT: its not on the table in the link i posted (here) and tbh when i look at the mural i dont see it even at the faded places. where would you place it??

Edited June 16, 2019 by Arynee

[Arynee]

5 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Byleth crest in that mural.

i would ask kindly, on wich position, cause i cant place it on the faded ones. And the main post, cant either. i mean its a pretty elaborate crest, it should be obvious but its just not there.... am i going crazy? xD

Edited June 16, 2019 by Arynee

[BastienSoul]

It's the center of the mural. The Crest of Flames lines up perfectly with the Goddess, dragons, and Seiros(?), and the European special edition confirmed it by showing the Crest underneath the paint.

[Lord_Grima]

https://serenesforest.net/2019/06/08/three-houses-european-limited-edition-trailer-mini-analysis/

 

This article sums up about Byleth's Crest (Crest of Flames) appearing in the Mural.

[Arynee]

1 minute ago, Lord_Grima said:

https://serenesforest.net/2019/06/08/three-houses-european-limited-edition-trailer-mini-analysis/

 

This article sums up about Byleth's Crest (Crest of Flames) appearing in the Mural.

OMG okay, wow yeah thats probably like the only article i didnt have in mind to check again O.O
...hmmm interessting, but still kinda wierd that its well - i kinda want to say its "hidden in plain sight" but is it really? Its in the composition - but the thing with "Under the paint" kinda underlines the wierdness and things i stated?
Its technically not on it and i think that this fact probably has some deeper meaning, especially if its hidden in and/or beneath it.

If you take it figuratively, it might even mean nemesis was an original ruler/leader of the bunch and somehow got replaced and his records overwrittern (or over-painted)

[Arynee]

1 minute ago, Arynee said:

If you take it figuratively, it might even mean nemesis was an original ruler/leader of the bunch and somehow got replaced and his records overwrittern (or over-painted)

Wich would not be uncommon, specially with religion envolved. The winners are the ones writing the records after all...

[thecrimsonflash]

I think it will end up being the case that the crest of flames is ultimately covered up by the church of seros after they took power in fodlan, mainly because of the trouble the last bearer(nemesis I think I've heard him called) gave them and to further solidify their grip on the continent.

also, I don't want to minimod, but we aren't supposed to double post, if you need to add something, editing your post can't get you in trouble.

[HappyHawlucha.]

I think, thematically anyway, the Crest of Flames will be the opposite to the Crests bestowed by the Goddess; a sort of anti-Crest. It's power is greater than any other Crest and the Church learned to harness it's power alongside the other Crests to gain a firm hold over Fódlan, despite it being considered "unholy" due to it's opposing nature to the Goddess. Some members of the Church want to use it's power through Byleth to secure their power, while others see Byleth and their crest as unclean and wish to cleanse Fódlan of its unholy influence.

Edited June 17, 2019 by HappyHawlucha.

[Arynee]

4 hours ago, thecrimsonflash said:

also, I don't want to minimod, but we aren't supposed to double post, if you need to add something, editing your post can't get you in trouble.

Oh i didnt know O.O thx for telling me, wont do it again. Might have forgoten about it... been a long time, last time i was on SF was on the height of the FE:Fates train haha... yeah... didnt age well xD

 

But i found something interesting! In this post someone compared the trailers and found that the "framed" Villan guy, the plae one with the darkness isnt actually matching with the evil acts shown. In the Posts below people do match him (probably) with the MC/Byleths father jerald tho. They also talk about the name "the liberator king", wich nemesis was called - wich seems kinda odd to me tho, since when they "destroy" his crest and maybe even decendents and make him out to be the bad guy.... why let him keep such a name? its odd in universe.....

like:
1- oh yeah you know that evil guy that our glorious, ruling church faced off against?
2- oh yes i heared of him, the liberator king nemesis right?
1- What? Liberator king? What did he liberate? That sounds like something good, no? Didnt they kill him?
2- Idk, yeah they killed him bc he faught the church or something
1- But why would someone like a liberator fight the Church of seiros? Isnt he suppost to be a good guy if people call him like this? You dont think....the Church is the bad guy in this scenario...right? It kinda sounds really bad...  (x100 if they know the church might hunt down the Crest bearers of Flame / Nemesis Decendents)

Kinda feels like its meant so that we (as audience) get a hint that he wasnt actually the bad guy or something xD

Edited June 17, 2019 by Arynee

[Zoderos]

Seems like the classic "History is written by the winners" case. Byleth's crest could be the "original" crest, which all other crests came from. Or it could be just another crest along with the other 21 crests. Or even an opposing forbidden crest unrelated to the other 21 crests. Whatever the case may be, it looks like it's far more powerful than the rest and for some reason was erased from history. Also, there is a line in the trailer where an evil crooked nose grandpa says something like "so the fell star can consume even the darkness itself", which leads me to believe the word fell star refers to Byleth/his crest/Sothis and the word darkness refers to some crests that have been corrupted. That's a wild guess, but by consume he may mean "destroy" or "absorb". To go even further, the fact that his time traveling powers most likely come from his crest and the possibility his crest can destroy other crests means he is a perfect candidate to act as a watcher/keeper of balance. So if there is a war behind the scenes between the Church and the evil looking clocked guys, he is the wild card 3rd party.

Since Nemesis and the war was mentioned, here is what I believe may have happened. Some nobles/kings started abusing their crests and doing nasty things, and given that he had the only crest with the ability to oppose and destroy their crests, he started a huge campaign to eradicate all the crests and thus liberate the common people. He tried to do the good thing, but went about it the wrong way creating a lot of bloodshed. Seeing the total chaos and the threat to their authority(no crests means no church), Church joined in the war and finally Nemesis was defeated. His lineage deemed unholy and his crest too dangerous, he was stripped from everything and erased from history. Just pure speculation.

Also, why are there 21 crests on the mural, when we know there are 10 Greats and 10 Divines(and Seiros is confirmed to be a Divine)? Did I miss something?

EDIT: To add even further speculation. In the trailer, we see dark energy releasing Nemesis from a coffin. This means he was either dead and resurrected or he was alive and sealed, and someone from the evil faction freed him. Personally I find the second case more interesting. Could the Church been keeping him sealed, because they may need his crest's power? Could the bad guys be trying to free him and use him? The fact someone still keeps him after all that time may be that his Crest of Flames manifests at random without direct link to blood. Conveniently enough the official info states something  along the lines of "sometimes crests can magically appear on certain people, reason unknown". Is this exclusively refering to Nemesis/Byleth's Crest of Flames?

Edited June 17, 2019 by Zoderos
To theorise even further

[Arynee]

1 hour ago, Zoderos said:

Seems like the classic "History is written by the winners" case. Byleth's crest could be the "original" crest, which all other crests came from. Or it could be just another crest along with the other 21 crests. Or even an opposing forbidden crest unrelated to the other 21 crests. Whatever the case may be, it looks like it's far more powerful than the rest and for some reason was erased from history.

exactly!

Quote

Also, there is a line in the trailer where an evil crooked nose grandpa says something like "so the fell star can consume even the darkness itself", which leads me to believe the word fell star refers to Byleth/his crest/Sothis and the word darkness refers to some crests that have been corrupted. That's a wild guess, but by consume he may mean "destroy" or "absorb". To go even further, the fact that his time traveling powers most likely come from his crest and the possibility his crest can destroy other crests means he is a perfect candidate to act as a watcher/keeper of balance. So if there is a war behind the scenes between the Church and the evil looking clocked guys, he is the wild card 3rd party.

I think you might very well be very right with this, its sounds a lot like the FE-Style to me.... and like something i'd enjoy!

Quote

Some nobles/kings started abusing their crests and doing nasty things, and given that he had the only crest with the ability to oppose and destroy their crests, he started a huge campaign to eradicate all the crests and thus liberate the common people.

This actually matches up really well with Edelgards word in the trailer "some believe the crests - tokens of a goddesses power - are necessary to maintain power. But they are wrong, teacher. The Crests are to blame." and i actually think that her lines later "do you dare to walk this path with me?" might actually be her asking if you'd be willing to fight against the crests and thuss the Church wich relies on them (possibly ~).

So yeah, you're kinda the Anti-Church, second Liberator - maybe?

Church is really likely to be the bad guy, covering up the Crest of Flames wich could oppose them YET keeping the others in their Art and Culture, Ruling Classes (although it depends on howmuch controll they have in the three lands. But keep in mind that the Crest reatio on royal/nobel characters is higher AND i think its higher in the more royal houses too? i.e. Red > blue > yellow i think, not sure about it tho?).

This would actually be really interessting tho, since Edelgard - with this in regard - might be the main opposition of the Chruch while Drimitri might have no chance to oppose it, and thuss turn "evil" (if the MC does not help him?).

Edit: Spoiler from the "Reddit Leak Thread" below...

Spoiler

Edit: i've just read that there might be a 4th golden route - and its very likely to branch off of Edelgards Route! I think this underlines this theroy further - like you pick edelgard and fight the crests to bring peace and end the "tyranny"(?) of the crests (and Church?), WHILE getting Dimitri out of their grip and on your side?

I've got this wierd feeling since i saw them dance in teh trailer - like its a set up for a cruel twist, that they just have to kill each other later, wich is why specially these two are shown dancing together in peace and no one else.... and since i noticed Edelgard saving the words above and the things around Byleths crest... this really looms over my head now xD

Edited June 17, 2019 by Arynee

[Zoderos]

52 minutes ago, Arynee said:

exactly!

I think you might very well be very right with this, its sounds a lot like the FE-Style to me.... and like something i'd enjoy!

This actually matches up really well with Edelgards word in the trailer "some believe the crests - tokens of a goddesses power - are necessary to maintain power. But they are wrong, teacher. The Crests are to blame." and i actually think that her lines later "do you dare to walk this path with me?" might actually be her asking if you'd be willing to fight against the crests and thuss the Church wich relies on them (possibly ~).

So yeah, you're kinda the Anti-Church, second Liberator - maybe?

Church is really likely to be the bad guy, covering up the Crest of Flames wich could oppose them YET keeping the others in their Art and Culture, Ruling Classes (although it depends on howmuch controll they have in the three lands. But keep in mind that the Crest reatio on royal/nobel characters is higher AND i think its higher in the more royal houses too? i.e. Red > blue > yellow i think, not sure about it tho?).

This would actually be really interessting tho, since Edelgard - wich this in regard - might be the main opposition of the Chruch while Drimitri might have no chance to oppose it, and thuss turn "evil" (without the MC?).
I've got this wierd feeling since i saw them dance in teh trailer - like its a set up for a cruel twist, that they just have to kill each other later, wich is why specially these two are shown dancing together in peace and no one else.... and since i noticed Edelgard saving the words above and the things around Byleths crest... this really looms over my head now xD

Pretty much agree with this. Edelgard seems like she's going to try eradicate the crests, at least on some route. Dimitri, king of the supposed "holy" kingdom, will oppose her, and Claude will be like "let's all be friends, ok?". Another interesting fact is Edelgards speculated double bloodline/crest. She is seen using the Seiros crest and the Seiros sword, yet in artwork she is seen using the bone axe with Hresvelg crest. I firmly believe she'll lose her Seiros crest and gain the Hresvelg one. This could be of course dependant on which route you follow, or happen in all routes. I doubt renouncing her crest would work, so probably Byleth destroys it after a confrontation between the two and then her dormant crest of Hresvelg manifests. Or she could have two crests simultaneously, I don't know if that can happen tho. Or evil looking dude needs her seiros's crest to unlock something related to seiros and steals it, then her other crest manifests. Kinda hard to pinpoint when there's more than one route.

EDIT: Splitting the Edelgard route in two variations makes the most sense to me even without considering thani's leak. She is the most pushed as canon and her role seems to have the most significance to the plot with parallels to Nemesis himself(liberate the world from crests). Maybe Byleth inherited his crest and Edelgard his will. I wouldn't be surprised if after completing all the three routes, a variation of Edelgard's route is unlocked to tie all routes, titled true ending, where all important people live, instead of bittersweet endings. I think this ties really well to super saiyan scene in the trailer. "All facets of time(meaning past and present) are revealed to you. What will you choose?" Meaning Byleth learnt of Nemesis and Seiros' past, and he also experienced all three outcomes of the current war, it's now time to make his choice. Go back in time to a critical moment, and change it to make it possible to save all the students and achieve best ending, fin. 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Zoderos
Further speculation

[DystopianAlphaOmega]

On 6/16/2019 at 2:47 PM, Arynee said:

So, idk if someone made a Post about this already

I may have done something similar to this a little while ago.

My conspiracy theory was that Byleth is the equivalent of Genealogy's Arvis in this game (or more likely closer to Robin in Awakening or Corrin in Fates).  Our ancestor, while perhaps not as evil as the modern church makes him out to be was still evil.  

As to my speculation about an academy BBQ, since then we got the E3 trailer and all I can say is the truth is out there

Spoiler

Old:

Now:

 

Clearly my predictive capabilities are infallible

What could be interesting though - which side does Byleth's crest come from?  His Dad Geralt's or his mysteriously absent mom's?  I also wonder if there is something that allows a minor crest to awaken into a major crest, as I can't imagine the main lords staying with minor crests the whole game (especially with the special artifact holy weapons they will need to be wielding).  Perhaps there can only be one of each major crest at a time and once the wielder dies, a new major crest awakens in someone with a minor crest.  That could help explain how the main lords could get their major crests (can't have the parents of lords survive too long now can we?) and could indicate Byleth got his crest from his mother.  Also if it was from Geralt, it likely wouldn't be so mysterious, since he would be able to explain it, or at the very least, it wouldn't be an unknown crest, since it would have been observed when Geralt was with the Knights of Seiros.  Which brings us back to the question of who the mother is, but I digress.  
 

[Zoderos]

6 hours ago, DystopianAlphaOmega said:

I may have done something similar to this a little while ago.

My conspiracy theory was that Byleth is the equivalent of Genealogy's Arvis in this game (or more likely closer to Robin in Awakening or Corrin in Fates).  Our ancestor, while perhaps not as evil as the modern church makes him out to be was still evil.  

As to my speculation about an academy BBQ, since then we got the E3 trailer and all I can say is the truth is out there

  Reveal hidden contents

Old:

Now:

 

Clearly my predictive capabilities are infallible

What could be interesting though - which side does Byleth's crest come from?  His Dad Geralt's or his mysteriously absent mom's?  I also wonder if there is something that allows a minor crest to awaken into a major crest, as I can't imagine the main lords staying with minor crests the whole game (especially with the special artifact holy weapons they will need to be wielding).  Perhaps there can only be one of each major crest at a time and once the wielder dies, a new major crest awakens in someone with a minor crest.  That could help explain how the main lords could get their major crests (can't have the parents of lords survive too long now can we?) and could indicate Byleth got his crest from his mother.  Also if it was from Geralt, it likely wouldn't be so mysterious, since he would be able to explain it, or at the very least, it wouldn't be an unknown crest, since it would have been observed when Geralt was with the Knights of Seiros.  Which brings us back to the question of who the mother is, but I digress.  
 

This is how I also think it would work. I've talked about this on Reddit and not many people agreed tho. I think that there is only one of each major crest at a time, and either when the owner dies, it reawakens to someone with the minor version of crest, or there is some ritual of inheritance to pass it on to someone with a minor version of the same crest. If it's totally RNG, then we may not even get to see many major crests. 

As for Byleth, the wiki states "sometimes crests appear at random and we don't know the reason". This may actually the case for Byleth - a randomly chosen "chosen one" without any blood ties to someone important. However, I've also speculated in another thread that he may actually have ties to both Nemesis and Seiros(or another manakete looking green haired lady). Given Seiros(or Rhea) showed dragon eyes(I doubt they can turn into dragons tho, more like a powered up state) in the latest trailer, there is probably a good chance there's more to him than just his crest and sword. He may got his crest from Nemesis, who was his ancestor, and the green hair dragon powers from his mother, a green haired lady(maybe related to Rhea? or maybe she's a descendant of Seiros). Admittedly though that would make him too special and too powerful.

[Arynee]

7 hours ago, DystopianAlphaOmega said:

I may have done something similar to this a little while ago.

My conspiracy theory was that Byleth is the equivalent of Genealogy's Arvis in this game (or more likely closer to Robin in Awakening or Corrin in Fates).  Our ancestor, while perhaps not as evil as the modern church makes him out to be was still evil. 

Wow! I didnt find it when i searched for Crests and stuff tho O.O maybe i overlooked it in my frantic state WTF.... i couldnt believe nobody talked about it (and i guess i was right, you did at least :P)

Anyhow, i never played genealogy (sadly, back when i didnt have the access and nowadays time is precious q.q) so i couldnt make a connection even tho i heared about a lot of people doing so in places. Glad you found your way over, so you could (enlighten me & ) theorize with us 🙂

Also, i heared over where they speculate what the FE is this time around... and the more i read here the faint voice of some resonates more and more with me:

On 5/18/2019 at 5:07 AM, Calico said:

It's the Fire Emblem. 😛 Don't know what it's exact role in the story will be, but it'll probably be the Fire Emblem.

*Quote is talking about the Crest in Mural:

 

An about the father, when we are on topic atm...

7 hours ago, DystopianAlphaOmega said:

What could be interesting though - which side does Byleth's crest come from?  His Dad Geralt's or his mysteriously absent mom's?

its a theory posted somewhere else but i think for FE standarts it sounds really realistic....

On 6/13/2019 at 6:30 PM, Chopper... said:

[Byleths] father Jeralt knew of Byleth's true identity, and Byleth is the reason Jeralt resigned as a knight and became a mercenary. He made Byleth dye their hair a darker color so as not to bring any attention to them. When Byleth becomes a teacher at the academy, Jeralt goes back to being a knight so that he can stay close to Byleth and protect them should the secret be found out. Somewhere close to the end of the first part (or during the 5 years), the secret is revealed anyway, and Byleth stops dying their hair since it's lost its purpose. Also, Byleth could either know of their origin all along and not say anything, or not know anything and simply follow their father's weird orders.

Maybe take out the hair color shenanigans but the rest sounds fair... idk about the orders by your "father" but him knowing of your identitiy is pretty solid, and thuss to protect you. If hes related... well i think it could go either way. Jerald beeing the real father or not, seems equally possible.
I think adoptive might make more sense but i'd love to see someone actually related and in a genuine family-relationship again in a FE game... kinda miss this, this secretly-not-related-twist/trope has been milked enough haha!

Edited June 18, 2019 by Arynee
Added Quote & Picture, post expanded

[Zoderos]

In my opinion he isn't the father, just a guy who found him or was entrusted with him. And of course he retired to protect him because he was aware of his significance. Hair dye sounds like a stretch. I mean his eyes turn to green too, did he also use colored contact lenses?