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Least Favorite Class


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35 minutes ago, Rioma said:

In every FE game there is always one or two foot axe that grow to become one unit army themselves.  What happens is that this does not become apparent until they’ve been leveled, they gain massive health, strength, speed, weapon levels.  Single one of these beasts would take care of a whole side of map with just a Hand Axe.  People tend to give up on them early because of how often they miss early game. They come to this site, look at the listed growth stats and give up hope.  But then you see someone post that they actually love Axes and wonder why...

Gotta agree with @Von Ithipathachai on this one. I use axes all the time... but they tend to be the most screwed over infantry and take a lot of resources to turn that around. Sure they can turn out great with said resources... but that's the thing. Units considered top tier don't need special treatment to be good. Then for all I know you're getting RNG blessed to hell.

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7 minutes ago, The Roger The Paladin said:

Units considered top tier don't need special treatment to be good. Then for all I know you're getting RNG blessed to hell.

I also should've added that literally any unit can become a one-man army given sufficient training.

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Maybe you’re right... maybe am just lucky.  But I tell ya... in every FE there’s always one or two foot axes that if you stick with them, all they need is a Hand Axe.  It’s as much as staple of FE games as that you’ll get a green and red cavalry.

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4 hours ago, Rioma said:

In every FE game there is always one or two foot axe that grow to become one unit army themselves.  What happens is that this does not become apparent until they’ve been leveled, they gain massive health, strength, speed, weapon levels.  Single one of these beasts would take care of a whole side of map with just a Hand Axe.  People tend to give up on them early because of how often they miss early game. They come to this site, look at the listed growth stats and give up hope.  But then you see someone post that they actually love Axes and wonder why...

I fail to see it, because most of them tend to be too slow to double much (which also results in them not being able to dodge much either) and too weak defensively to hold the frontlines for very long. Just look at the GBA fighters. Aside from Geitz, who isn't guaranteed to be recruited because he's tied to a route split, none of them are very good. They're especially bad in Binding Blade, where axes are really inaccurate. Not that they're much better in Blazing Blade or Sacred Stones.

4 hours ago, Rioma said:

 With regards to archers being decoys, in several FE games, within THE SAME game, I’ve noticed the enemy AI behaving differently when they choose who to attack.  I’ve often seen AI ignore a target because they’ll deal no damage, or has 0% chance to hit.  They will pass right by them and continue charging to the heart of the army.  More often than not the AI goes for a unit that they’ll deal SOME damage, and much more likely if that unit can’t fight back.  Of course, if you have a bottleneck one may plant a tank... but if one is out in the open with a mass of cavalry threatening to focus their attacks with their hit and run tactics... unless one has a superhero that can kill them all in their own turn (like for example, that incredible foot axe?)... one wants to split the cavalry charge, archers tend to have enough speed and defense to peal a cavalry away and survive.  That it will take some damage and not retaliate is what makes it an attractive target for the AI, and thus, a decoy.

 Edit: And if the attacker is has a 1-2 range weapon, the archer’s melee blind spot guarantees it’ll plant itself right in the archer’s face.

Bolded: And that isn't a bad thing by your standards? Because if they're attacking an archer, that means they're not attacking someone else that could actually, you know, counter and possibly kill them. Also, archers tend to have bad defense. Try again.

The rest: Are you trying to troll me? Because if so, you're failing. Miserably. One, cavalry only have the ability to move again after attacking in the Tellius and Jugdral sagas, and in Three Houses, the latter of which we know little about because it hasn't been released yet. And in one of those games (Genealogy of the Holy War), you're stuck dealing with them in wide open fields where there's little room for cover. And you overestimate the AI - this trope tends to be in place in most games. The only exceptions to my knowledge are the aforementioned Genealogy of the Holy War, where enemies won't bother attacking if they have a 0% chance to hit and every attack does at least one damage, and Conquest, where they abstain from attacking if they can't damage or hit you. See above for why foot axes are extremely unlikely to become the superheroes you speak of.

4 hours ago, Rioma said:

Of course swords tend to lack range... but they do have the option, along with so many other options.  There really is a sword for every occasion.  There’s even swords that act like axes, heavier Blades with increased damage and weight, reduced hit.  So, if a unit is locked into swords, they’re probably a Swordmaster with not only a wide arsenal of sword options, but innate class abilities to exploit those options.

 So you see, these classes have annoyances but some interesting quirks.

The only games where they tend to have the option are Fates, which nerfed 1-2 range weapons in general, and Radiant Dawn, where wind edges lose out to javelins and hand axes because you can't forge them. Otherwise, they're stuck with magic swords, which tend to be limited in who can use them well, and personal weapons. Just look at Awakening - there are only three ranged swords, out of which one is the magic-based Levin Sword, and the others are A rank. And out of THOSE, one is limited to myrmidons and swordmasters, which aren't the best of classes in said game, and the other is only obtainable from the hardest paralogue in the game. Also, being evasion reliant to survive isn't always a good thing. Just look at Fates. The only good swordmaster is Ryoma, who has exclusive factors going for him.

4 hours ago, Rioma said:

 Lords?  There are just made to be awesome... cause you know, they’re the star of the show.

 *Roy sneaks in*:  “That’s right!  I’m awesome too!...  I am!...  Really!” 

It's official: You have no clue whatsoever what you're talking about, since you think Roy - the same Roy who's often considered the worst lord in the series for various reasons. - is amazing.

3 hours ago, Rioma said:

Maybe you’re right... maybe am just lucky.  But I tell ya... in every FE there’s always one or two foot axes that if you stick with them, all they need is a Hand Axe.  It’s as much as staple of FE games as that you’ll get a green and red cavalry.

I doubt it - between the GBA games and Fates, there's a grand total of zero foot axes that can be a one man army. And this is ignoring that pretty much any unit can be a one man army.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

It's official: You have no clue whatsoever what you're talking about, since you think Roy - the same Roy who's often considered the worst lord in the series for various reasons. - is amazing.

Considering he gave Lords as one of his least favorite classes earlier, that thing with Roy may or may not have been a joke.  I hope it was.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai
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I’ve every single FE a few times... there’s always one foot axe that if you stick with, it will grow into a monster that can deal with half a map... with a Hand Axe.  I thought this was common knowledge.  Apparently, maybe some don’t give them a chance to level and get benched for other favorite classes... which is perfectly fine.

And we’re kinda getting of topic here harping on foot axes...  I pointed out, in the context of LEAST FAVORITE class, that other classes have annoyances, but have interesting quirks, and that my LEAST FAVORITE class was the lord...  that foot axes even thou they tend to miss a lot early game, there’s always one or two that if one stays playing with them they become very strong and reliable to deal with a whole side of the map themselves:

Barts, Johalva (in this incarnation one had to go with this with high skill or the other with high speed)

Lot (tho in some plays Wade turns out better), Bartre, Ross, Garcia, Boyd, Nolan, Vaike, Arthur (although in Fates things are a little more interesting with reclassing... in this case it was Effie reclass to Axes through Arthur... tho likely other better reclass)

Regardless, there’s always a foot axe that becomes super awesome later, with its weapon level up it wont miss, they gain a lot of health, strength and speed.  Either decent or pretty good defense.  One only has to watch out for magic.  And even then their huge health pool can take it, killing the mage with Hand Axe.

I’m really surprised...  I don’t know what else to tell yah... I mean, am sure you know the game re-uses character archetypes with some changes, and there’s always one or two foot axes that follow that type.  And one really only needs the one... that is destroying the country side while the rest of the army deals with the other side.

I mean if this is really news, give it an HONEST try.  Or don’t!  That’s ok too...

And yeah... lords are my least favorite class...  and Roy sucks... goodness, I actually have to make that clear... Just don’t tell him that to his face.  Poor guy’s trying to save the world.

Edit:  Fixed.

Edited by Rioma
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27 minutes ago, Rioma said:

I’ve every single FE a few times... there’s always one foot axe that if you stick with, it will grow into a monster that can deal with half a map... with a Hand Axe.  I thought this was common knowledge.  Apparently, maybe some don’t give them a chance to level and get benched for other favorite classes... which is perfectly fine.

And we’re kinda getting of topic here harping on foot axes...  I pointed out, in the context of LEAST FAVORITE class, that other classes have annoyances, but have interesting quirks, and that my LEAST FAVORITE class was the lord...  that foot axes even thou they tend to miss a lot early game, there’s always one or two that if one stays playing with them they become very strong and reliable to deal with a whole side of the map themselves:

Barts,  Arum, Johalva (in this incarnation one had to go with this with high skill or the other with high speed)

Lot (tho in some plays Wade turns out better), Bartre, Ross, Garcia, Boyd, Nolan, Vaike, Arthur (although in Fates things are a little more interesting with reclassing... in this case it was Effie reclass to Axes through Arthur... tho likely other better reclass)

Regardless, there’s always a foot axe that becomes super awesome later, with its weapon level up it wont miss, they gain a lot of health, strength and speed.  Either decent or pretty good defense.  One only has to watch out for magic.  And even then their huge health pool can take it, killing the mage with Hand Axe.

I’m really surprised...  I don’t know what else to tell yah... I mean, am sure you know the game re-uses character archetypes with some changes, and there’s always one or two foot axes that follow that type.  And one really only needs the one... that is destroying the country side while the rest of the army deals with the other side.

I mean if this is really news, give it an HONEST try.  Or don’t!  That’s ok too...

That's news to me, since out of those, I can count the number of those you mentioned that are actually good on one hand. Need a hint? They're the ones I bolded. Also, is "Arum" supposed to be Alm? Because he doesn't use axes; axes are enemy only in Gaiden and Shadows of Valentia.

Bold: That's a very bold claim... and one I consider bullshit, at that, considering most of them have crippling weaknesses and lack any redeeming features (and before you say it, having high HP isn't a redeeming feature when it's backed up by shit defenses). Out of the others:

  • Johalva is in a game where axes are mega-heavy and is a foot locked unit in a game that heavily favours horses. He also lacks Pursuit in a game where it's needed to double. That being said, axes being heavy as they are pretty much ruins any chance he has of doubling anyway.
  • Lot and Wade are in a game where axes are extremely inaccurate. They're also foot locked in a game that favours horses to a massive degree. Worse yet, they require the same promotion item that better units (AKA, Rutger, Dieck, Fir) need to promote.
  • Dorcas and Bartre are in a game where fighters get no speed bonus upon promotion, and the latter has a lol-tastic 3 speed base.
  • Ross and Garcia are more of the same.
  • Arthur's likely to eat a critical hit and make like a frog and croak.

Who out of these losers are actually worth sticking with??? I'll answer that question for you: none of them.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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Okay, let's see...  I've already complained about Cavaliers.  I guess I'm not a big fan of Swordmasters, mainly due to their reliance on rare magical Swords with poor durability for any 1-2-Range combat at all.  Also, playing FE4 and seeing how badly Axes get screwed over kind of made me hate Swords.

8 minutes ago, Rioma said:

I’ve every single FE a few times... there’s always one foot axe that if you stick with, it will grow into a monster that can deal with half a map... with a Hand Axe.  I thought this was common knowledge.  Apparently, maybe some don’t give them a chance to level and get benched for other favorite classes... which is perfectly fine.

Actually, this is quite the opposite.  The general consensus is that Axe infantry (especially in the GBA games) are too slow and/or too inaccurate to make meaningful contributions to the team.

15 minutes ago, Rioma said:

Barts, Arum, Johalva (in this incarnation one had to go with this with high skill or the other with high speed)

  • Barst is very good in FE1/11, yes.  His high bases and growth rates compared to the other Axe infantry work wonders for him.  However, he might need a Speedwing to really work since Axes are so heavy.  Haven't played FE3/12, so I'm not sure how he does there.
  • Alm???  ALM IS NOT AN AXE INFANTRY.  No playable character in FE2/15 can wield Axes at all.
  • I never got far enough in FE4 to recruit Iucharba, and I want to use him, but I can't see him being THAT great.  Not necessarily because of the commonly cited Fighter problems, but because he's an Infantry unit in the OG Horse Emblem game.
  • I can't believe you're listing a bunch of allegedly excellent Axe infantry without mentioning Orsin/Osian/whatever he's called and his mighty Pugi (Bhuj?).
26 minutes ago, Rioma said:

Lot (tho in some plays Wade turns out better), Bartre, Ross, Garcia, Boyd, Nolan, Vaike, Arthur (although in Fates things are a little more interesting with reclassing... in this case it was Effie reclass to Axes through Arthur... tho likely other better reclass)

  • Uggghh.  Wade is garbage.  He can't hit the broad side of a barn and he's also slow to boot.  Lot is better about that, but still mediocre.  I'd like to say if Binding Blade has any good Axe infantry unit at all, it's Echidna.  (Yes, she's a Hero, but she has a higher base Axe rank than Sword rank and appears to have the Skl to make Axes work.  I benched her in favor of Gonzalez, because playable Brigand, but I'll probably give her a chance if I replay Binding Blade.)
  • Bartre can be passable, but not really outstanding.  He too suffers from mediocre Spd.
  • Ross and Garcia are good, but then again everyone in FE8 can be considered good with few exceptions.  This also applies to Vaike in FE13.
  • Boyd was fine, but not outstanding.  I eventually benched him in favor of Largo.  Also worth noting that FE9 is another notorious Horse Emblem game.
  • Haven't played FE10, so not sure what I can say about Nolan.
  • Not sure how the rest of the community feels about Arthur, but he did not turn out well for me at all.  His main issues to me were less his awful Lck and more his stat spread being too balanced, preventing him from standing out in any role.

Of the numerous Axe infantry you've cited as serious powerhouses, I've only found Barst to fit that description.  The others are either sorely lacking somewhere in a vital stat or victims of their games' design issues.

I would also like to know how much training you think they need compared to other units to become so strong.  About equal?  More than that?

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3 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:
  • Uggghh.  Wade is garbage.  He can't hit the broad side of a barn and he's also slow to boot.  Lot is better about that, but still mediocre.  I'd like to say if Binding Blade has any good Axe infantry unit at all, it's Echidna.  (Yes, she's a Hero, but she has a higher base Axe rank than Sword rank and appears to have the Skl to make Axes work.  I benched her in favor of Gonzalez, because playable Brigand, but I'll probably give her a chance if I replay Binding Blade.)

No mention of the fact that this is another Horse Emblem game? Because Binding Blade would have to be the biggest Horse Emblem game that isn't Genealogy of the Holy War.

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1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

No mention of the fact that this is another Horse Emblem game? Because Binding Blade would have to be the biggest Horse Emblem game that isn't Genealogy of the Holy War.

I tend to think of Binding Blade as a more general "Mount Emblem" game, but I guess Horse Emblem isn't too far off the mark, either.

If anything, I think Three Houses is looking to take that "biggest Horse Emblem" title.  In fact, it may be an EVEN BIGGER Horse Emblem game than FE4 if only because of how much it goes out of its way to encourage you to invest in Cavalry classes.  Cavalry are insanely prevalent in Master tier and mounted classes almost have a monopoly on Lance WEXP bonuses.  As if this weren't enough, Dismounting is also a thing, which means the few Infantry classes in that tier are at a very real disadvantage.

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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

I tend to think of Binding Blade as a more general "Mount Emblem" game, but I guess Horse Emblem isn't too far off the mark, either.

 If anything, I think Three Houses is looking to take that "biggest Horse Emblem" title.  In fact, it may be an EVEN BIGGER Horse Emblem game than FE4 if only because of how much it goes out of its way to encourage you to invest in Cavalry classes.  Cavalry are insanely prevalent in Master tier and mounted classes almost have a monopoly on Lance WEXP bonuses.  As if this weren't enough, Dismounting is also a thing, which means the few Infantry classes in that tier are at a very real disadvantage.

Fair enough.

I dunno - FE4 is in a league all its own, if you ask me. I don't think Three Houses will overtake it as being the most Horse Emblem game - that'd be asking a lot.

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I think it will for a simple reason. In fe4 you will field non horsies because there is no reason not to do so, and once in a blue moon they will fight and kill someone. Lategame in Three Houses there will not be any reason to even field a non cavalry unit unless you really need a gremory or a gauntlet user to kill bosses. 

Edited by Flere210
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5 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

And this is why I'll be trying to make everyone a Bow Knight in my first playthrough of TH lol

Bow Knights!! ❤️❤️❤️  

These two threads are getting entwined...  GET IT?!... cause they’re like threads?...

*ahem* Oh, goodness...  I’m an alien everywhere...

Anyways...  I agree, it seems the same creative... thread... of Genealogy will be felt in 3H.  Kinda like you can feel it in Path of Radiance... something about axe cavalries and armored knights with swords... Geneoloish...

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37 minutes ago, Flere210 said:

I think it will for a simple reason. In fe4 you will field non horsies because there is no reason not to do so, and once in a blue moon they will fight and kill someone. Lategame in Three Houses there will not be any reason to even field a non cavalry unit unless you really need a gremory or a gauntlet user to kill bosses. 

At the same time, the maps being as gigantic as they are in Genealogy means you'd pretty much have to go out of your way for foot units to contribute in any remotely meaningful way, shape or form. Unless we regularly have multiple turns of nothing but empty movement in Three Houses, I don't see it happening. Also, I have my doubts about gauntlets' usefulness - and not because mounted units can't use them.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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13 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, I have my doubts about gauntlets' usefulness - and not because mounted units can't use them.

This depends on what kind of stats they have alongside their Brave effect.  I don't think they'll be as accurate as Swords.  Their attack power may be worse, too.  Not sure about their weight, though.

Eh, something about fist-fighting in a Fire Emblem game just rubs me the wrong way.  And I think the Brawling specialist classes look a bit ugly.

...I miss Fates-style Daggers.

Edited by Von Ithipathachai
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1 hour ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

This depends on what kind of stats they have alongside their Brave effect.  I don't think they'll be as accurate as Swords.  Their attack power may be worse, too.  Not sure about their weight, though.

Eh, something about fist-fighting in a Fire Emblem game just rubs me the wrong way.  And I think the Brawling specialist classes look a bit ugly.

...I miss Fates-style Daggers.

For me, it's the brave effect only triggering when initiating (from everything we've seen, at least). And unless this game is more player phase oriented than Fates, I don't see them being that good.

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One also has to consider we can use weapons other than the ones from our current classes. I honestly think that Gauntlets will only be given to units so they can damage certain units they otherwise would be too slow to double. I'd say it's like...the difference between Silver and Killer weapons; Silver is generally better due to its higher damage output, but Killer is better in certain classes and skill combinations due to its higher crit chance and crit damage.

Edited by MilodicMellodi
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1 hour ago, MilodicMellodi said:

One also has to consider we can use weapons other than the ones from our current classes. I honestly think that Gauntlets will only be given to units so they can damage certain units they otherwise would be too slow to double. I'd say it's like...the difference between Silver and Killer weapons; Silver is generally better due to its higher damage output, but Killer is better in certain classes and skill combinations due to its higher crit chance and crit damage.

That depends on their stats, which we don't know yet. As for the silver vs killer comparison, that depends on the game - I find killer weapons not so useful in Radiant Dawn because enemy units tend to have really high luck stats, and the result tends to be crit chances that are too low to rely on. Killer weapons aren't much better in Fates - and this is despite silver having debuffs applied when used to attack (at least if you're the lead unit).

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