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Least Favorite Class

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I'm not a fan of Malig Knights. Axes and tomes are an extremely awkward combination, especially when your strength and magic stats are blatantly lopsided in favor of one or the other, which tends to be the case with most units that can access the class. Ditto for Oni Chieftains. Both of them have lackluster skills, too, with Oni Chieftain being worse off in that regard.

Most non-Manakete transforming units, aka damn near all of them (discounting Corrin and Kana) for being rather awkward to use (laguz, with the exception of the royals, have to wait a few turns before they can transform, and are defenseless until then; they also tend to be not powerful enough to be worth the wait. Taguels are a complete joke of a class, thanks to being stuck with one weapon for 3/4 the game, with said weapon having the might of an iron weapon).

Edited by Shadow Mir

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm not a fan of Malig Knights. Axes and tomes are an extremely awkward combination, especially when your strength and magic stats are blatantly lopsided in favor of one or the other, which tends to be the case with most units that can access the class. Ditto for Oni Chieftains. Both of them have lackluster skills, too, with Oni Chieftain being worse off in that regard.

Most non-Manakete transforming units, aka damn near all of them (discounting Corrin and Kana) for being rather awkward to use (laguz, with the exception of the royals, have to wait a few turns before they can transform, and are defenseless until then; they also tend to be not powerful enough to be worth the wait. Taguels are a complete joke of a class, thanks to being stuck with one weapon for 3/4 the game, with said weapon having the might of an iron weapon).

No Berserkers? Who are you and what have you done with the real Shadow Mir?!?

Joking aside, I agree with you 100%. The only semi-useful skill the Malig Knight class offers is Trample, which... you know. Only comes it at the end of the game, if that.
I'd throw Awakening and Fates' Dark Knights in there, too, as well as the Basara class.
While I do like the transforming units, including Manaketes, if only because they are a neat idea and by far less generic/boring than Knights and Cavaliers, both as a class and as characters, I will agree to them usually not being very good.

Among my least favorite units are Armor Knights. They're slow, have little to no movement and garbage resistance, meaning the entire point of them is entirely lost. They're supposedly front line tanks, but due to low movement range, they'll constantly lag behind, low Speed means they will get doubled by anything and everything, which makes their semi-decent Defense a moot point, as they will get wrecked regardless. Mages will just absolutely murder them as soon as they see them.

Another least favorite are Cavaliers. Sure, high movement and two or three different weapon ranks is nice, but their stats are middling at best, most of them very prone to RNG-screwage because of that (best example in this regard being Fates' Silas, who can be a somewhat-decent asset or a total liability with nothing more than a flip of the coin), meaning they will lag behind if not given preferential treatment. They, like Armor Knights, face the trouble of increasing popularity of effective weaponry on enemy units (Ridersbane, Beastbane skills, etc.), meaning that one careless move will send that Cav to an early grave.
But by far my biggest gripe with them is that the characters that start out in this class are usually just so gosh-darn generic and boring. Sure, there are a few exceptions here and there, but most of them are just so dull and boring. Or, in Sain's, Peri's, and Xander's case, so annoying that I want to punch them in the jaw every time they open their damn mouths.

Lastly, there's the Fighter class. Just... hit something, damn you! Fighters that can hit something are good, but those are few and far between and the only real outlier that comes to mind is Shadow Dragon's Barst.

Keep in mind that these are just the opinions of a very jaded person, formed during a number of different playthroughs of different Fire Emblem games, and are not to be taken as facts.

Edited by DragonFlames
Added a disclaimer

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2 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

No Berserkers? Who are you and what have you done with the real Shadow Mir?!?

He already covered those in an earlier post.

21 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Foot axes in general. They tend to have sucky stats everywhere but HP and Strength, and are honestly the worst classes in the series.

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10 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

He already covered those in an earlier post.

Aw, crap. Now my joke doesn't work anymore...

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Always going to be Knights and any of their non-mounted promotes for me. I want a lot of movement capability in my army so knights are the antithesis to my strats.

EDIT: Can't forget Dark Mages and Sorcerers either, something about the way they play just always felt wrong to me with the gimmicky magic and abilities.

Edited by TowerOfTartarus

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Knights/generals by a country mile. I don't find them fun. I don't find them useful. And with the sole exceptions of Gilliam, Gatrie, and Tauroneo, I don't like them as characters.

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Archers/Snipers.  I love how they work in Echoes, but unless they are uber powerful (like the broken duel skill on the FE4 ones or broken PRF or super stats) they are annoying to use in other games and generally sort of unneeded.   Most units have higher physical defense than res, so mages are much better ranged attackers usually and they can counter from any distance.  Meanwhile most archers don't have great res so they aren't good for taking out mages either.  They are only good for taking out fliers, but most games are much more heavy on peg knights which most physical melee units can handle well, the beefier draco knights are the only enemy where it seems somewhat useful having an archer.  Archer/sniper is also unmounted.  I always use at least one on my team for variety sake but really thinking about it they rarely deserve a spot.  

 

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2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Archers/Snipers.  I love how they work in Echoes, but unless they are uber powerful (like the broken duel skill on the FE4 ones or broken PRF or super stats) they are annoying to use in other games and generally sort of unneeded.   Most units have higher physical defense than res, so mages are much better ranged attackers usually and they can counter from any distance.  Meanwhile most archers don't have great res so they aren't good for taking out mages either.  They are only good for taking out fliers, but most games are much more heavy on peg knights which most physical melee units can handle well, the beefier draco knights are the only enemy where it seems somewhat useful having an archer.  Archer/sniper is also unmounted.  I always use at least one on my team for variety sake but really thinking about it they rarely deserve a spot.  

 

Is the skill you refer to as Duel the same one that fan translations call Charge?

Anyway, the only games I'd see archers as useful in are Fates (mages and throwing weapons got nerfed, and bows got buffed), the DS games (evade got nerfed into the ground, and the harder difficulties make chip damage even more important), and Binding Blade (throwing weapons aren't very accurate, and wyvern riders are pretty prominent throughout the game). For what it's worth, prepromoted snipers tend to have decent bases and good weapon ranks.

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I think I'm going to have to go with Laguz/Tagurel/Wolf/Kitsune/etc.. Mamkute/Manakete get a pass, as dragons are so central to fire emblem games, but the other arbitrary animal transformations have to be my least favorite classes by far.

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On 6/17/2019 at 1:45 PM, DragonFlames said:

No Berserkers? Who are you and what have you done with the real Shadow Mir?!?

Joking aside, I agree with you 100%. The only semi-useful skill the Malig Knight class offers is Trample, which... you know. Only comes it at the end of the game, if that.
I'd throw Awakening and Fates' Dark Knights in there, too, as well as the Basara class.
While I do like the transforming units, including Manaketes, if only because they are a neat idea and by far less generic/boring than Knights and Cavaliers, both as a class and as characters, I will agree to them usually not being very good.

Among my least favorite units are Armor Knights. They're slow, have little to no movement and garbage resistance, meaning the entire point of them is entirely lost. They're supposedly front line tanks, but due to low movement range, they'll constantly lag behind, low Speed means they will get doubled by anything and everything, which makes their semi-decent Defense a moot point, as they will get wrecked regardless. Mages will just absolutely murder them as soon as they see them.

Another least favorite are Cavaliers. Sure, high movement and two or three different weapon ranks is nice, but their stats are middling at best, most of them very prone to RNG-screwage because of that (best example in this regard being Fates' Silas, who can be a somewhat-decent asset or a total liability with nothing more than a flip of the coin), meaning they will lag behind if not given preferential treatment. They, like Armor Knights, face the trouble of increasing popularity of effective weaponry on enemy units (Ridersbane, Beastbane skills, etc.), meaning that one careless move will send that Cav to an early grave.
But by far my biggest gripe with them is that the characters that start out in this class are usually just so gosh-darn generic and boring. Sure, there are a few exceptions here and there, but most of them are just so dull and boring. Or, in Sain's, Peri's, and Xander's case, so annoying that I want to punch them in the jaw every time they open their damn mouths.

Lastly, there's the Fighter class. Just... hit something, damn you! Fighters that can hit something are good, but those are few and far between and the only real outlier that comes to mind is Shadow Dragon's Barst.

Keep in mind that these are just the opinions of a very jaded person, formed during a number of different playthroughs of different Fire Emblem games, and are not to be taken as facts.

I'd add Nolan as an outlier for the fighter class. He has pretty good stats in areas where fighters tend to lack (like skill/def/res), caps most of his stats, is one of the few Dawn Brigade units worth training, and is one of the few Dawn Brigade units capable of taking a hit. Easily one of the best of his class.

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 6:55 PM, Etheus said:

Knights/generals by a country mile. I don't find them fun. I don't find them useful. And with the sole exceptions of Gilliam, Gatrie, and Tauroneo, I don't like them as characters.

I agree with this. Also, was the country part supposed to be a joke about Brom? That just made me chuckle a bit, which I needed, so thanks.

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On 6/17/2019 at 1:45 PM, DragonFlames said:

While I do like the transforming units, including Manaketes, if only because they are a neat idea and by far less generic/boring than Knights and Cavaliers, both as a class and as characters, I will agree to them usually not being very good.

Yeah. Disregarding Manaketes as they're a constant, the only useful transforming units I've seen either are in Fates, are royal laguz, or are the very few non-royal laguz that actually have something that makes up for the many disadvantages being a laguz comes with.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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Barbarians and Fighters, and Berserkers while I'm mentioning them. An entire class tree that throws Resistance away for the ability to do a little more damage has always been a turn-off for me. Not only that, but they can only use Axes which are pretty damn inaccurate...you have to dedicate your entire skill list to Crit-based skills to make them useful at all, because you definitely won't be hitting anything if you don't crit.

Plus my play-style has always been more defensive, and wearing the enemy down with attrition. I've never done well with all-in strategies, especially with units that can't take what they can give.

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Lords.

(Sorry for the long post, what follows is a rant.  You got the short answer and are welcomed to ignore the rest)

Each class seem to have an annoyance, axes dont hit, knight slow, bows dont melee, swords vulnerable... etc, but they also had something that made them interesting:

The axe dont hit as much but can be used as a wall to set up for others to kill, supported by healer.  At higher levels axes missing is no longer issues and they become a one unit army killing machine.

Knights slow is really its only relative disadvantage, which is non issue in indoor levels where a reliable wall at a bottleneck is essential.  Put a boot boost on a knight to create a monster.

Bows dont melee... and the AI loves to hit them making them great decoys.  There’s reason why foot archers tend for good defense.

Swords just need a bush to perch on and dodge everything Matrix style.  Then there’s a sword for every occasion.  Need something killed?  Killer Sword?  Oh, but high defense is the fast sword counter?  Armor Slayer.  Wyvern Slayer.  Longsword.  Yeah... a sword for every occasion...  even range.

And then there are Lords...  privileged by the writer gods to be the best at everything.  If don’t watch lords carefully they’ll steal away all the exp until they max out and can’t promote because.... you know they are special and their promotion is scripted.  Selfish lords never share their special weapon.  You have a promising unit that needs some help leveling?  Maybe a good weapon could help?  SORRY!  You can use swords... BUT NOT THIS SWORD.  It’s only for lords!  Heaven forbid they die...  ITS ALL OVER.  Every single member of the army as a background, they suffer losses and sacrifice, and they press on.  BUT IF THE LORD DIES... we just can't move on like we’ve been doing when anyone else dies... we have to warp back in time, restart the chapter, bend time and space, create a rupture in the time continuum letting loose all sorts of temporal beasts and chrono demons because THE LORD JUST CANT DIE.... no matter how much one hates their pompous, arrogant, virtue signaling, presumptuous, demeaning and condescending attitude towards others, one just cannot kill them.  If you try you get sealed for half eternity into oblivion, and after one finally breaks out another lord comes up to carry on the mantle of annoying character privileged placement.

Lords should not be a class, just a background they role play.  Lords should just class like everyone else.  As it stands, lords are myrmidons with defense for example.

I appreciate Ike trying to break off the lord tradition.  And Fates lord being vulnerable to dragon slayers.

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On 7/11/2019 at 11:40 PM, MilodicMellodi said:

Barbarians and Fighters, and Berserkers while I'm mentioning them. An entire class tree that throws Resistance away for the ability to do a little more damage has always been a turn-off for me. Not only that, but they can only use Axes which are pretty damn inaccurate...you have to dedicate your entire skill list to Crit-based skills to make them useful at all, because you definitely won't be hitting anything if you don't crit.

Plus my play-style has always been more defensive, and wearing the enemy down with attrition. I've never done well with all-in strategies, especially with units that can't take what they can give.

I can only assume you mistyped, because you can't crit if you don't hit. Anyway, I agree - it's hard to trust foot axes to do anything.

19 hours ago, Rioma said:

Lords.

(Sorry for the long post, what follows is a rant.  You got the short answer and are welcomed to ignore the rest)

Each class seem to have an annoyance, axes dont hit, knight slow, bows dont melee, swords vulnerable... etc, but they also had something that made them interesting:

The axe dont hit as much but can be used as a wall to set up for others to kill, supported by healer.  At higher levels axes missing is no longer issues and they become a one unit army killing machine.

Knights slow is really its only relative disadvantage, which is non issue in indoor levels where a reliable wall at a bottleneck is essential.  Put a boot boost on a knight to create a monster.

Bows dont melee... and the AI loves to hit them making them great decoys.  There’s reason why foot archers tend for good defense.

Swords just need a bush to perch on and dodge everything Matrix style.  Then there’s a sword for every occasion.  Need something killed?  Killer Sword?  Oh, but high defense is the fast sword counter?  Armor Slayer.  Wyvern Slayer.  Longsword.  Yeah... a sword for every occasion...  even range.

And then there are Lords...  privileged by the writer gods to be the best at everything.  If don’t watch lords carefully they’ll steal away all the exp until they max out and can’t promote because.... you know they are special and their promotion is scripted.  Selfish lords never share their special weapon.  You have a promising unit that needs some help leveling?  Maybe a good weapon could help?  SORRY!  You can use swords... BUT NOT THIS SWORD.  It’s only for lords!  Heaven forbid they die...  ITS ALL OVER.  Every single member of the army as a background, they suffer losses and sacrifice, and they press on.  BUT IF THE LORD DIES... we just can't move on like we’ve been doing when anyone else dies... we have to warp back in time, restart the chapter, bend time and space, create a rupture in the time continuum letting loose all sorts of temporal beasts and chrono demons because THE LORD JUST CANT DIE.... no matter how much one hates their pompous, arrogant, virtue signaling, presumptuous, demeaning and condescending attitude towards others, one just cannot kill them.  If you try you get sealed for half eternity into oblivion, and after one finally breaks out another lord comes up to carry on the mantle of annoying character privileged placement.

Lords should not be a class, just a background they role play.  Lords should just class like everyone else.  As it stands, lords are myrmidons with defense for example.

I appreciate Ike trying to break off the lord tradition.  And Fates lord being vulnerable to dragon slayers.

First bold: Most foot axes tend to specialize in HP and Strength and have everything else for dump stats, so I don't see this as being true.

Second bold: A good decoy would have decent to high defense. Guess what stat archers tend to suck in?

Third bold: Funny thing is, swords tend to lack range, and what ranged options they have tend to be inferior to those of lances or axes. Fates is about the only exception to this, and it nerfed ranged weapons anyway. As a result, being locked to swords tends to be seen as a bad thing in these games.

With regard to lords, their getting a weapon only they can use is nothing new, otherwise, you'd have to hate every main character in fiction. Also, not all lords are sword users. 

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2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

First bold: Most foot axes tend to specialize in HP and Strength and have everything else for dump stats, so I don't see this as being true.

This is mainly in the context of Lords.  Granted, the only character who remotely fits this criteria is Hector...

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3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I can only assume you mistyped, because you can't crit if you don't hit. Anyway, I agree - it's hard to trust foot axes to do anything. 

I thought that every game aside from Fates gave units 100% accuracy on crits? I could be wrong on that (except the Fates one, I know they added a miss chance in that game).

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7 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I thought that every game aside from Fates gave units 100% accuracy on crits? I could be wrong on that (except the Fates one, I know they added a miss chance in that game).

Nope, it goes hit calculation->crit calculation in every FE game, I'm pretty positive. Which means it calculates whether you hit or miss, then rolls another RN to calculate whether you crit.

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16 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Nope, it goes hit calculation->crit calculation in every FE game, I'm pretty positive. Which means it calculates whether you hit or miss, then rolls another RN to calculate whether you crit.

I'm assuming that it skips crit calculation if the hit lands on a miss, then?
I honestly don't remember too much, but I think back when Fates started that someone had said it was crit calc then hit calc for Fates, resulting in a possible miss despite proccing a crit.

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2 minutes ago, MilodicMellodi said:

I'm assuming that it skips crit calculation if the hit lands on a miss, then?

Yup! If you see your crit animation (or in the newer games, your cut-in), you're gonna hit no matter what. 

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7 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Yup! If you see your crit animation (or in the newer games, your cut-in), you're gonna hit no matter what. 

Right, so 100% accuracy on crits. Hitting no matter what if you proc a crit.

I suppose in technical terms I could have worded that better.

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On 7/13/2019 at 4:55 PM, Shadow Mir said:

First bold: Most foot axes tend to specialize in HP and Strength and have everything else for dump stats, so I don't see this as being true.

Second bold: A good decoy would have decent to high defense. Guess what stat archers tend to suck in?

Third bold: Funny thing is, swords tend to lack range, and what ranged options they have tend to be inferior to those of lances or axes. Fates is about the only exception to this, and it nerfed ranged weapons anyway. As a result, being locked to swords tends to be seen as a bad thing in these games.

In every FE game there is always one or two foot axe that grow to become one unit army themselves.  What happens is that this does not become apparent until they’ve been leveled, they gain massive health, strength, speed, weapon levels.  Single one of these beasts would take care of a whole side of map with just a Hand Axe.  People tend to give up on them early because of how often they miss early game. They come to this site, look at the listed growth stats and give up hope.  But then you see someone post that they actually love Axes and wonder why...

With regards to archers being decoys, in several FE games, within THE SAME game, I’ve noticed the enemy AI behaving differently when they choose who to attack.  I’ve often seen AI ignore a target because they’ll deal no damage, or has 0% chance to hit.  They will pass right by them and continue charging to the heart of the army.  More often than not the AI goes for a unit that they’ll deal SOME damage, and much more likely if that unit can’t fight back.  Of course, if you have a bottleneck one may plant a tank... but if one is out in the open with a mass of cavalry threatening to focus their attacks with their hit and run tactics... unless one has a superhero that can kill them all in their own turn (like for example, that incredible foot axe?)... one wants to split the cavalry charge, archers tend to have enough speed and defense to peal a cavalry away and survive.  That it will take some damage and not retaliate is what makes it an attractive target for the AI, and thus, a decoy.

Edit: And if the attacker is has a 1-2 range weapon, the archer’s melee blind spot guarantees it’ll plant itself right in the archer’s face.

Of course swords tend to lack range... but they do have the option, along with so many other options.  There really is a sword for every occasion.  There’s even swords that act like axes, heavier Blades with increased damage and weight, reduced hit.  So, if a unit is locked into swords, they’re probably a Swordmaster with not only a wide arsenal of sword options, but innate class abilities to exploit those options.

So you see, these classes have annoyances but some interesting quirks.

Lords?  There are just made to be awesome... cause you know, they’re the star of the show.

*Roy sneaks in*:  “That’s right!  I’m awesome too!...  I am!...  Really!” 

Edited by Rioma

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3 minutes ago, Rioma said:

In every FE game there is always one or two foot axe that grow to become one unit army themselves.  What happens is that this does not become apparent until they’ve been leveled, they gain massive health, strength, speed, weapon levels.  Single one of these beasts would take care of a whole side of map with just a Hand Axe.  People tend to give up on them early because of how often they miss early game.

Uhh...  What?  How much favoritism are you giving these characters?  I also love Axe infantry and even I question this.

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