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Owain Dark

Who'll be the Est of the game?

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Best bet is Sothis, if she becomes a unit in your army at some point. In the same Est stylings as Myrrh and Kurthnaga. Small Dragon thing that has massive growths to make up for being absent 90% of the game.

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7 minutes ago, Gregster101 said:

That's assuming they'll even give us an Est, since disregarding remakes, we haven't gotten an Est since Radiant Dawn with Kurthnaga and Pelleas

Pretty sure Donnel and Muzu would count as an Est

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4 minutes ago, Owain Dark said:

Pretty sure Donnel and Muzu would count as an Est

Donnel and Mozu both joined really early into Awakening and Fates; so they're not really Ests tbh.

Anyway my bet is also on Cyril but Flayn as a back up prediction.

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I doubt we'll have one. In fact, I would say most archetypes have pretty much vanished from the series.

7 minutes ago, Owain Dark said:

Pretty sure Donnel and Muzu would count as an Est

No. Don't Est units join late?

Edited by Shadow Mir

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I think the Est archetype has morphed into the Donnel archetype. And yes I think Cyril will be the Donnel archetype.

Spoiler

My guess is he'll probably join early after the timeskip, maybe as a current student of the academy? Unless I missed something?

 

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28 minutes ago, Owain Dark said:

Pretty sure Donnel and Muzu would count as an Est

Donnel and Mozu aren't Ests. An Est is a unit who joins very late in the game at a low level with weak bases, but very high growths. Donnel and Mozu join very early on in their respective games, so they don't count as Ests.

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Have we even seen every playable character yet? It's kind of hard to answer this question when we might still have characters available post time skip. 

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The issue in Fateswakening is that the kid characters were somewhere between everyone being Est and none of them being Ests. They had the late arrival and usually dumb growths, but often had proper starting stats and you could recruit them whenever you got them.

The lack of Ests in the last two (non-remake) releases doesn't feel indicative of anything due to babyrealms kinda throwing late game recruitment sideways.

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Eh, too early to tell as Ests are late-game. Nintendo doesn't want to talk about the war phase according to PlayerEssence. We were able to see Flayn and Cyril's sprites when choosing who to give food to. It seems that they're neutral characters that join you during the school phase.

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1 hour ago, Rakath said:

The issue in Fateswakening is that the kid characters were somewhere between everyone being Est and none of them being Ests. They had the late arrival and usually dumb growths, but often had proper starting stats and you could recruit them whenever you got them.

The lack of Ests in the last two (non-remake) releases doesn't feel indicative of anything due to babyrealms kinda throwing late game recruitment sideways.

Exactly. I don't have any faith that we'll have any Est units when the last game that could be said to have them without being a remake was over 10 years ago.

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Exactly. I don't have any faith that we'll have any Est units when the last game that could be said to have them without being a remake was over 10 years ago.

And all of the ones in the remakes are literally Est.

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4 hours ago, Owain Dark said:

Pretty sure Donnel and Muzu would count as an Est

Uh no, I don't think so. They aren't late game characters. 

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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Exactly. I don't have any faith that we'll have any Est units when the last game that could be said to have them without being a remake was over 10 years ago.

I'm arguing in favor that there will be an Est (we don't have late game baby realms to muck up late game recruitment), just we don't have the right information as we only know the starting units of each house. Ests are a late game character, we know next to nothing about War Era story.

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4 minutes ago, Rakath said:

I'm arguing in favor that there will be an Est (we don't have late game baby realms to muck up late game recruitment), just we don't have the right information as we only know the starting units of each house. Ests are a late game character, we know next to nothing about War Era story.

I don't think there will be one because due to the increased emphasis on a school system where you can train units and there's downtime, as opposed to a linear story, there is really no reason to have an Est. 

Three Houses really turns all traditional Fire Emblem tropes upside down so we need to stop acting like it'll keep having the same old cliches.

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...Except it can't, for one very simple reason.

Even if classic mode is downplayed to make the series approachable to a casual crowd, it still exists. Meaning there must be recruits toward the end of the game in case you get someone killed and don't save scum (like FE fans are usually want to do). As some people don't reset because they got Bernadetta killed (those monsters). I already made a suggestion for a clear choice for an Est who also would make sense outside of the schooling system. But you'll likely also be able to recruit less embedded to the story units like with all FE games.

Ests didn't go away because they were obsolete. Ests were simply pushed aside by a mechanic that isn't in this game.

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5 minutes ago, Rakath said:

Even if classic mode is downplayed to make the series approachable to a casual crowd, it still exists. Meaning there must be recruits toward the end of the game in case you get someone killed and don't save scum

Uh this comment makes no sense.

Yes of course there are units like that, but they aren't Ests to begin with! Est is a character type that is actually usually ignored because most players find it too difficult to level them up late game. But there's always been a history of pre-promoted units who show up in the second half or late game specifically for players who don't reset when someone dies. Those aren't Ests.

That's completely irrelevant to why I don't think there'll be an Est-like unit. I don't think there's any story or gameplay reason for them to have a late-game first tier unit with god-like growths, simply because of the training academy system.

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1 hour ago, Rakath said:

I'm arguing in favor that there will be an Est (we don't have late game baby realms to muck up late game recruitment), just we don't have the right information as we only know the starting units of each house. Ests are a late game character, we know next to nothing about War Era story.

The problem I have here is that we're talking about a game with at least three class tiers.  I can't see an Est being implemented well in such a case, frankly, especially with Three Houses being designed the way it is.

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I think we'll get more of the "trainee" type units, like the ones you get near the beginning of Sacred Stones, Awakening, Fates, and Gaiden/SoV.  Those just seem to be received better than Ests, and that seems to be the direction they've been going lately.  Hell, in a way, this FE is basically "trainees, the video game".

IMO we're better off this way, too.  The idea of an Est archetype was ill-conceived.  It's better to get a "low-bases" unit early on when you have all the time in the world to train them up than to get them so late into the game that you'd have to deliberately go way out of your way to get them caught up with everyone else.  This is especially the case in a game with four entire tiers of classes (Beginner, Intermediate, Advanced, and Master).  Imagine getting a Beginner-tier unit when you're at a point where everyone's at Master-tier.  That'd be immensely infuriating.

1 hour ago, Rakath said:

Even if classic mode is downplayed to make the series approachable to a casual crowd, it still exists. Meaning there must be recruits toward the end of the game in case you get someone killed and don't save scum (like FE fans are usually want to do). As some people don't reset because they got Bernadetta killed (those monsters).

Late-game recruits do not equal Ests.

Unless you think the likes of Yukimura, Flora, Fuga, Izana, Awakening!Tiki, Basilio, Flavia, Zeke, Mycen, Nomah, and Conrad are Ests.  If you do, then you have a very skewed idea of what an "Est" is supposed to be.

I won't argue against the idea of having characters to replace those you may have let die previously, but I will argue against the idea of those units having garbage bases.  The idea of them is basically you having to redo all the progress you made with every other unit you've used, and that's not fun.

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8 minutes ago, Matroska said:

You mean a super cute girl that everyone inexplicably hates?

BQxMCyC.jpg

For the record, I've hardly heard anyone hate on Nino, who is very much definable as an Est unit-wise - people usually say she's one of the few little girl characters in the series that are actually done right.  Not even Hector hates her, and he has a huge issue with the Black Fangs.

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18 hours ago, Rakath said:

Best bet is Sothis, if she becomes a unit in your army at some point. In the same Est stylings as Myrrh and Kurthnaga. Small Dragon thing that has massive growths to make up for being absent 90% of the game.

Sothis is Tiki archetype  though

Edited by Tenzen12

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