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Ranjin

Funds Pecularity in my HHM Ranked Run

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I'm in the middle of a HHM ranked run, and something strange has happened.

At the beginning of Ch25H, I had a 5 star funds rank. I played through the chapter, obtaining the Elysian Whip, the Divine, and refusing to recruit Farina. After the chapter, in Ch26H battle preps, I still had a 5 star funds rank as expected.

However, when I used an Elysian whip in Ch26H battle preps, I checked my rankings and found that my funds rank had fallen to 4 star.

Ch25H is 0 requirement. The Elysian Whip obtained there is a bonus asset, with no corresponding increase in the funds requirement. I made no major expenditures in Ch25H (I did promote in preps, but I had 5 star funds after doing so). With the exception of 2 uses each of Silver Lance and Elfire, I used lower end weapons, the cost of which would be offset by the acquisition of the bonus Divine tome.

How could my funds ranking fall if I used an item that the game does not account for?

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I'm not certain of how it works, but I'm under the impression that the funds ranking is liable to be penalized any time the value of your inventory decreases. I'm pretty sure not getting the Ocean Seal doesn't really hurt your funds rank compared to getting it, but I know for a fact that using it almost always drops you a star.

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23 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

I'm not certain of how it works, but I'm under the impression that the funds ranking is liable to be penalized any time the value of your inventory decreases. I'm pretty sure not getting the Ocean Seal doesn't really hurt your funds rank compared to getting it, but I know for a fact that using it almost always drops you a star.

This is definitely not how it works. The game adds your gold and item value and compares it to a required threshold to determine your rank. What you're suggesting doesn't even make sense; if getting items doesn't effect your rank, how do you get rank at all?

I'm honestly not quite sure yet how this happened, but I should point out this minor flaw in your understanding:

1 hour ago, Ranjin said:

How could my funds ranking fall if I used an item that the game does not account for?

While technically true that the game doesn't add the item into the Funds requirement, using it can still theoretically drop your Funds ranking because it's still part of your total assets. If you were to use/sell other items first and still be at 5*, using the Elysian Whip and losing that 4k could still drop you below whatever the current requirement is. But based on the info you've provided, assuming you didn't forget about some shopping you did in Ch 25, I can't figure this one out.

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20 hours ago, Florete said:

assuming you didn't forget about some shopping you did in Ch 25

Obviously, human error is the simplest explanation, although i would remember an error egregious enough to affect my funds ranking so. I thought I would see if I'm missing key information before questioning my sanity.

Here are a couple of my admittedly dubious theories:

1. Ch25H actually has ranking requirements of which I and others are unaware. This is highly unlikely, unless the source of the ranking tables on SF and elsewhere is a single individual's unverified work.

2. For some reason, the game is evaluating my ranks as though I've ALREADY COMPLETED the chapter when I check them in battle preps BEFORE said chapter. I would have noticed this if it was happening from the beginning, but if it started recently then I may not have noticed because of some funds and EXP surplus, the former of which has obviously run low enough to be noticed. I did play through Ch26H on a separate save and the 4 star rating remained, so either the issue didn't resolve or this is not the issue.

These are some pretty weak ideas, but it's all I've got so far.

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:32 PM, Florete said:

if getting items doesn't effect your rank, how do you get rank at all?

I think he's saying it's that the inventory keeps track of how many items fall to 0 copies in the convoy - that is, getting Items doesn't affect your rank, but losing them does, because it's implied that you're 'using up' the monetary value those items have, which is effectively the same as spending the equivalent money, at least if you're just ranking for wealth. It's like how in Monopoly, buying properties doesn't hurt your 'rank' but having to sell properties back can. Does that make sense?

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Your Funds rank is determined by dividing the net value of the items you get in any given chapter (value of items and gold gained minus value of items and gold used) by a certain preset value for that chapter, as shown here:

https://serenesforest.net/blazing-sword/miscellaneous/rankings/tables/

Using a promotion item subtracts its value from your assets; thus getting the Ocean Seal and using it has the exact same effect on your Funds rank as not getting the Ocean Seal at all.

I assume the same happened when you used your Elysian Whip; since it has a value of 10,000, using it subtracts 10,000 from your Funds rank, which might be enough to bring your 5 stars down to 4.

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38 minutes ago, Paper Jam said:

Your Funds rank is determined by dividing the net value of the items you get in any given chapter (value of items and gold gained minus value of items and gold used) by a certain preset value for that chapter, as shown here:

https://serenesforest.net/blazing-sword/miscellaneous/rankings/tables/

Using a promotion item subtracts its value from your assets; thus getting the Ocean Seal and using it has the exact same effect on your Funds rank as not getting the Ocean Seal at all.

I assume the same happened when you used your Elysian Whip; since it has a value of 10,000, using it subtracts 10,000 from your Funds rank, which might be enough to bring your 5 stars down to 4.

This would make sense, except that I got a bonus Elysian Whip from the 0 requirement chapter. I had 5 stars before I got this bonus. So, subtracting the 10000 should bring me back to pre-Ch25H funds value, for which I had a 5 star ranking.

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My next guess, then, is that the total value of the weapons you used in chapter 25 was probably enough to bring down your Funds value.

What is shown on your Rankings screen is your cumulative ranking for the entire playthrough; it's possible to lose Funds rank, even after a 0-requirement chapter, if you used more assets than you gained in that chapter. Although the Funds requirement is no higher after that chapter than before, it's no lower either.

Edited by Paper Jam

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1 hour ago, Paper Jam said:

My next guess, then, is that the total value of the weapons you used in chapter 25 was probably enough to bring down your Funds value.

What is shown on your Rankings screen is your cumulative ranking for the entire playthrough; it's possible to lose Funds rank, even after a 0-requirement chapter, if you used more assets than you gained in that chapter. Although the Funds requirement is no higher after that chapter than before, it's no lower either.

This would be the logical answer. However, given what I remember from playing the chapter, the numbers just don't add up. Other than a couple uses each of Silver Lance and Elfire, I only used lower end weapons. In addition to the Elysian Whip that I ended up using, you also get a Divine tome, worth 2500. This should offset the cost of my weapon uses for the chapter. I don't think my memory is so bad that I would be terribly wrong about all this, so I'm wondering if I missed something about the game.

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Did you sell anything in that chapter? That bites into your Funds rank too. (A Red Gem, for example, is worth 5,000 if you keep it, or it can be sold for 2,500; you lose 2,500 if you do sell it.)

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On 7/3/2019 at 11:45 PM, Paper Jam said:

Did you sell anything in that chapter? That bites into your Funds rank too. (A Red Gem, for example, is worth 5,000 if you keep it, or it can be sold for 2,500; you lose 2,500 if you do sell it.)

Nope. I didn't recruit Farina either.

As it is, I think that I can still 5 star funds. I'm still going to promote 2 other people eventually, for a total of 4 non-lords. I was expecting my funds rank to drop at some point and slowly come back by the end of the game. However, these particular circumstances are puzzling. Whether I'm missing key information about the game itself or selectively forgetting key information about how I play chapters, I'm concerned that I'm going to get blindsided and not be able to recover. Given that no one has an answer at this point, I will continue my playthrough. No need to stop playing Fire Emblem just because I might be losing my sanity.

If anyone can figure this out, I would be very glad to hear it.

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If you got the Silver Card and the Member Card, the Funds rank should be pretty easy to 5-star even with this oddity. You'll get lots of gold in chapter 31x, with which you can buy an Ocean Seal or a Fell Contract (or three Earth Seals) from the Secret Shop in chapter 32; that will add 25k or 30k to your Funds rank right there.

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On 7/5/2019 at 7:23 PM, Ranjin said:

Nope. I didn't recruit Farina either.

As it is, I think that I can still 5 star funds. I'm still going to promote 2 other people eventually, for a total of 4 non-lords. I was expecting my funds rank to drop at some point and slowly come back by the end of the game. However, these particular circumstances are puzzling. Whether I'm missing key information about the game itself or selectively forgetting key information about how I play chapters, I'm concerned that I'm going to get blindsided and not be able to recover. Given that no one has an answer at this point, I will continue my playthrough. No need to stop playing Fire Emblem just because I might be losing my sanity.

If anyone can figure this out, I would be very glad to hear it.

Funds tends to be the easiest ranking out of the main three (Exp, Tactics and Funds) because of the Silver Card's existence.

Every time you buy an item with the Silver Card, you pay half price for it in hard gold but the full value of the item is added to your Funds count. So if you were to buy a Fell Contract with the Silver Card, you will spend 25K gold on it but the value in your convoy is worth 50K or double in true effect.

Ironically, this is actually means that if you empty your pockets entirely with the Silver Card, you actually end up with double the value of every item you paid for, trivializing the Funds rank. I find that it's always Exp that breaks me rather than Funds due to this manipulation.

As for why your ranking dropped, it's pure math. Clearly you were about 10k over the rank at the time and the promotion plus a few item uses just put you under. It's no need to worry. If Exp ever drops to 4 stars, that's the one that you need to start worrying about.

Edited by Life

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On 9/9/2019 at 1:17 PM, Life said:

Funds tends to be the easiest ranking out of the main three (Exp, Tactics and Funds) because of the Silver Card's existence.

Every time you buy an item with the Silver Card, you pay half price for it in hard gold but the full value of the item is added to your Funds count. So if you were to buy a Fell Contract with the Silver Card, you will spend 25K gold on it but the value in your convoy is worth 50K or double in true effect.

Ironically, this is actually means that if you empty your pockets entirely with the Silver Card, you actually end up with double the value of every item you paid for, trivializing the Funds rank. I find that it's always Exp that breaks me rather than Funds due to this manipulation.

As for why your ranking dropped, it's pure math. Clearly you were about 10k over the rank at the time and the promotion plus a few item uses just put you under. It's no need to worry. If Exp ever drops to 4 stars, that's the one that you need to start worrying about.

I was never concerned with being able to 5 star given that rank at that point in the game. My concern was that I didn't understand the reason for it, and I was concerned with getting blindsided by an unknown unknown, which brought me here. I've accepted that it was the result of a very small, extremely low-probability margin that was crossed through weapon uses despite the fact that I got a bonus Divine tome (2500g) in addition to the Whip. I'll grant that I might just remember my weapon uses incorrectly, I didn't track them closely.

Ultimately, none of this matter because I successfully completed the run anyways.

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