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80 Hours in one path - 200 across the three


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On 7/5/2019 at 3:48 PM, Timlugia said:

The demo they used in Treehouse and other places showed 12 hours playtime at chapter 8

This was probably played by someone already played this game multiple times for testing, and also likely skipping every conversation and cutscene just to set up the save files.

So realistically each chapter is going to take much longer.

Also it's a demo. They probably have a debug version of the game that let them set the start point (at chapter 😎 and it was probably 12 hours worth of playtime from E3 attendees.

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15 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

But for all we know the time skip in Three Houses might just be there for the same reason it was there in Awakening, to justify shipping. Awakening needed a year for Lucina to be born (even though baby Lucina never comes up again, nor any other babies). And Three Houses needs a time skip since its cast is often clearly underage.

I get what you mean but there were probably more likely theories to bring up. On top of various gameplay elements and plot ramifications that definitely seem potent, making the students young and having to create a timeskip to age them up with completely new designs and models because they cannot be romanced as a result... that sounds like a self-made problem. And really, if shipping was a priority to that extent, the very structure of the game getting in the way would make little sense.

That's pretty clearly a much more involved timeskip than Awakening's basically. And I'd argue even that cannot be 100% established as exclusively being done for shipping purposes, as far as I'm aware anyway.

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7 hours ago, Cysx said:

I get what you mean but there were probably more likely theories to bring up. On top of various gameplay elements and plot ramifications that definitely seem potent, making the students young and having to create a timeskip to age them up with completely new designs and models because they cannot be romanced as a result... that sounds like a self-made problem.

Self-made problem. In game development...? hehe...hahahaHAHAHAHAHA

QUITE the self-made problem! No Kidding! That's like deciding you want a second generation of child units in your fire emblem game, but not immediately realizing the first generation would need to be aged up or killed off. "Ah! We can use TimeTravel/Outrealms!"

Quote

And I'd argue even that cannot be 100% established as exclusively being done for shipping purposes, as far as I'm aware anyway.

Then we are in agreement. Because I was using "Three Houses' time skip was just done for shipping" as a hypothetical. An example of how an idea people are excited to see in fire emblem games could be twisted or wasted in a new game. 

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4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Self-made problem. In game development...? hehe...hahahaHAHAHAHAHA

QUITE the self-made problem! No Kidding! That's like deciding you want a second generation of child units in your fire emblem game, but not immediately realizing the first generation would need to be aged up or killed off. "Ah! We can use TimeTravel/Outrealms!"

You are taking a tendency and making it the crux of your argument here, though. Furthermore, I'd say the deeprealms don't really work with what you're suggesting, for two main reasons; they went with possibly the laziest solution possible(so the opposite of what's going on with 3H), and, they had already faced this issue with Awakening making it unlikely they were unprepared as a result. Things point to children never being planned as a core feature of the game, while if they were willing to go as far as they are with the timeskip in 3H just for shipping, it very much would have to be one of their absolute priorities.
 

18 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

Then we are in agreement. Because I was using "Three Houses' time skip was just done for shipping" as a hypothetical. An example of how an idea people are excited to see in fire emblem games could be twisted or wasted in a new game. 

I meant that about your Awakening statement, which didn't sound like a hypothetical. And if it was, I'm not quite sure why you brought it up. "Maybe Awakening did that so maybe Three Houses is doing it too"?

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23 hours ago, Flere210 said:

World building is mostly about irrelevant stuff. You don't need to know that fishing is the main industry of village A wich you only visit because there is a macguffin in it. But knowing that is world building nonetheless. Awakening has a lot of ancient history, wich at leadt is more than what we could say about the Fates continent.

 

True, world building is largely fluff, unnecessary fluff. It's not always unnecessary, but games often aren't very often made for the sole point of having world building the way they are for gameplay, plot, character, or aesthetic beauty. World building is a generous blessing.

And my one nitpick about Fates is the map of Valla:

fates-map-valla.jpg

The none of the lands below it look like Nohr and Hoshido, what are they?

Although coincidentally, I just realized that the most visited Valla floating island is a mirror of the Kingdom of Archanea:

fe11-world-map.jpg

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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Why would you expect the lower parts of Valla to look like Nohr and Hoshido? My big problem with Valla is that it's way too wide for something that to my understanding once filed the canyon between Hoshido and Nohr. Unless Hoshido and Nohr used to be much further apart before Valla's disappearance.

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32 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Why would you expect the lower parts of Valla to look like Nohr and Hoshido? My big problem with Valla is that it's way too wide for something that to my understanding once filed the canyon between Hoshido and Nohr. Unless Hoshido and Nohr used to be much further apart before Valla's disappearance.

because for some reason Valla is a floating content, even the map transition has the camera flying up

I just assume that no one has looked into the sky lately

"DAD, What's with the flying rocks in the sky"

"TIMMY,  WHAT HAVE I TOLD YOU ABOUT LOOKING AT THE SKY ABOVE A 100 DEGREE ANGLE"

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Fateslandia wasn't even given a name. Perhaps the continents below Valla are supposed to be more parts of it, and the devs just didn't care enough to explain it? The place is underground, so they can't be Hoshinohr. Also wow, a FE game that takes over 15 hours to complete! Neat. 

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3 hours ago, Vespy said:

I think it'll be closer to 30-40 hours per route depending on how much side activities we choose to do but honestly the longer the game the better i say.

 

30 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Also wow, a FE game that takes over 15 hours to complete! Neat. 


Why must a long duration be positive? If most of those hours are spent dining with anime teens and fulfilling 'social' activities, I would rather have a game that gives me 20 hours of interesting maps.

Many people (not here, mind you) brag about their having spent 60 hours on this game or 100 hours on another one, as if it gave them some authority on those games. But they could simply be very bad at it (and thus require more time to complete it) or grinding fanatics, and still unable to explain the game's principles.

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19 hours ago, Cysx said:

I get what you mean but there were probably more likely theories to bring up. On top of various gameplay elements and plot ramifications that definitely seem potent, making the students young and having to create a timeskip to age them up with completely new designs and models because they cannot be romanced as a result... that sounds like a self-made problem. And really, if shipping was a priority to that extent, the very structure of the game getting in the way would make little sense.

That's pretty clearly a much more involved timeskip than Awakening's basically. And I'd argue even that cannot be 100% established as exclusively being done for shipping purposes, as far as I'm aware anyway.

I think if shipping was main focus there wouldn't be any point to time-skip either. Members of FE cast are rarely adults and it never stopped them from getting together. Neither did age gap (Oswin X Serra for best couple). 

I don't see why after 15 installments it should suddenly become issue. 

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On 7/6/2019 at 12:56 PM, Druplesnubb said:

The Ylissean continent is just a big blob divided into three not quite as large blobs. Fates went out of its way to show that there were tons of independent nations and villages scattered around the world and it wasn't just Hoshido and Nohr. Ylisse, Plegia and Regna Ferox are all homogenous blocks with nothing separating one part from the other (Regna Ferox is the only one of them where I'm even vaguely certain you can even talk about different "parts" at all). Compare with Nohr where you actually get to meet different vassal states separate from the main culture. The fact that you can separate Cheve from Nohr proper by architectural style alone beats anything that Awakening has. Hoshido admittedly is much worse on this front, which just means that it's on the same level as the Awakening nations. And then there's of course the fact that all of Plegia worships a god that explicitly wants to destroy humanity without any reason ever given as to why. And why does Grima want to destroy humanity anyway? Anankos actually had some kind of reason to want to conquer the world, even if you have to play Heirs of Fate to actually learn it. The fact that Anankos is a dragon who is evil rather than the Dragon of Evil is also much better than Grima in Awakening.

Awakening feels like a world constructed and contrived for the story to take place in rather than a world that a story happens to take place in. Fates has this problem too but Awakening is worse at it.

That's generally how I see it too. As flawed as Fateslandia is Awakening is worse. Personally I'd argue Magvel is worse than Fateslandia as well. You're right that the minor nations do add a lot of charm. Mokushu the opportunistic ninja nation, peaceful but wacky Izumo, the various tribes, the nohrian vassals and all must find their place between the two super powers. It somewhat reminds me of Elibe where Bern and Etruria were the dominant powers surrounded by minor nations. Fateslandia doesn't lack for diversity or interesting set ups. What it lacks is detail. Fateslandia could have been one of the better worlds but the writers never really bothered with it. 

In contrast Ylisse just consist of good guy country, bad guy country and allied country that likes to get into fights. It never had any chance to be one of the better world and the writers also didn't bother with it. 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 12:03 PM, Druplesnubb said:

It's always embarassing to read people who think that not giving Fates' continent a name was somehow the biggest problem with that game's worldbuilding or that just having a continent name somehow means that you have better worldbuilding than Fates.  Like let's say that the continent of Fates is called Krupp or whatever (and ignore the fact that everything points to Hoshido and Nohr being two different continents). You'll notice that this doesn't actually improve anything about Fates' worldbuilding at all. We still don't know of any settlements in all of Hoshido except for the capital.

Having a name or not is indeed a very small issue in the grand scheme of things but its still a telling one. Fateslandia not having a name isn't the worst thing but it does imply that the creators really didn't bother putting in a lot of thought into the world. Its an easy example to point to. 

 

On 7/6/2019 at 12:03 PM, Druplesnubb said:

We still don't have an explanation about how Nohr can be a major military power despite their poor resources.

I don't think that really requires much explanation. Historically poor countries were always good at fighting because if they didn't take food through fighting they'd starve to death. Famous examples of this being the Mongols and Vikings. I also think Nohr is supposed to be poor in terms of food but not necessarily stuff like iron which would be a callback to Tracia which supposedly also had plenty of iron despite being poor. 

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14 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That's generally how I see it too. As flawed as Fateslandia is Awakening is worse. Personally I'd argue Magvel is worse than Fateslandia as well. You're right that the minor nations do add a lot of charm. Mokushu the opportunistic ninja nation, peaceful but wacky Izumo, the various tribes, the nohrian vassals and all must find their place between the two super powers. It somewhat reminds me of Elibe where Bern and Etruria were the dominant powers surrounded by minor nations. Fateslandia doesn't lack for diversity or interesting set ups. What it lacks is detail. Fateslandia could have been one of the better worlds but the writers never really bothered with it. 

In contrast Ylisse just consist of good guy country, bad guy country and allied country that likes to get into fights. It never had any chance to be one of the better world and the writers also didn't bother with it. 

 

Having a name or not is indeed a very small issue in the grand scheme of things but its still a telling one. Fateslandia not having a name isn't the worst thing but it does imply that the creators really didn't bother putting in a lot of thought into the world. Its an easy example to point to. 

 

I don't think that really requires much explanation. Historically poor countries were always good at fighting because if they didn't take food through fighting they'd starve to death. Famous examples of this being the Mongols and Vikings. I also think Nohr is supposed to be poor in terms of food but not necessarily stuff like iron which would be a callback to Tracia which supposedly also had plenty of iron despite being poor. 

It honestly amazes me how much they bastardized Archanea when making Ylisse. With Archanea, you had this grand continent of multiple nations and kinds of people. Then with Ylisse, you just make it 3 nations with one being obviously good, another being obviously bad, and the other being a mercenary nation that also somehow takes up half the continent. And then there's Valm....

Yeah, I would agree that Awakening's worldbuilding is probably just as bad if not worse than Fates if for nothing else than how stupid they made everything compared to Archanea and Valentia.

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25 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I don't think that really requires much explanation. Historically poor countries were always good at fighting because if they didn't take food through fighting they'd starve to death. Famous examples of this being the Mongols and Vikings. I also think Nohr is supposed to be poor in terms of food but not necessarily stuff like iron which would be a callback to Tracia which supposedly also had plenty of iron despite being poor. 

The Mongols ran a giant family protection racket which depended on the cooperation of non-nomads (namely Han collaborators), with their empire falling to the garbage once they lacked the means to bribe collaborators and threaten dissidents with extermination combined with guaranteed ethnic/racial conflict. They were also not "poor" in the way Nohr supposedly is (far smaller population than a sedentary state, has proportionately more healthy and able men at war).

We don't see Nohr making any offers to other countries beyond "do what we see or we'll torch you." No signs of any major collaborations with Hoshidans. 

Also, Thracia wasn't their world's superpower. That was Grannvale. Indeed, they lose the one war they get into with them.

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On 7/5/2019 at 9:30 PM, Lief said:

Mr. Yokota : I am quite proud of this great monastery which is the gathering place in the game but also of the historical context around the continent of the game, Foldan. I am quite proud of this story, that of this country.

Mr. Kusakihara : I do not want to sound weird when I'm obviously a developer on this game, but when I did the game from A to Z, when I got to the end of the story of the final version, I I had this incredible feeling that this country really existed, that it had a story to discover. Even as a developer on the game, I had that feeling of experiencing something that really existed. That's what I would like players to feel: the feeling that all of this has existed.

This does make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Its great that decent worldbuilding seems to be returning to Fire Emblem. The quite detailed map already implied such but its nice we got a developer saying it. 

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On 7/7/2019 at 11:19 PM, Captain Karnage said:

because for some reason Valla is a floating content, even the map transition has the camera flying up

I just assume that no one has looked into the sky lately

"DAD, What's with the flying rocks in the sky"

"TIMMY,  WHAT HAVE I TOLD YOU ABOUT LOOKING AT THE SKY ABOVE A 100 DEGREE ANGLE"

Valla is located in its own sky-dimension thing. It obviously isn't directly above Nohr and Hoshido or you would have been able to see it in like half the cutscenes.

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Looks like it was marketing fluff, hard mode, taking their time or a lot of grinding. One person from Engadget who played the game from start to finish for reviewing (rushed) said it took them 45 hours on normal and it might possibly ring true, but they mentioned being overleveled. Looking like 60+ for the other other together as they have a better grasp of how the game works now. Article has since been deleted since it broke an embargo, but you can find a imgur link in the appropriate topic.

Edited by redlight
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7 minutes ago, redlight said:

Looking like 60+ for the other other together as they have a better grasp of how the game works now.

I believe he means 60 hours each. He also said 200 hours for all three routes will likely be true for the reader.

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Just now, Siskan said:

I believe he means 60 hours each. He also said 200 hours for all three routes will likely be true for the reader.

Maybe on hard and not rushing this time then yes

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24 minutes ago, redlight said:

Looks like it was marketing fluff, hard mode, taking their time or a lot of grinding. One person from Engadget who played the game from start to finish for reviewing (rushed) said it took them 45 hours on normal and it might possibly ring true, but they mentioned being overleveled. Looking like 60+ for the other other together as they have a better grasp of how the game works now. Article has since been deleted since it broke an embargo, but you can find a imgur link in the appropriate topic.

It was on normal so of course it would be easy to rush, skip cutscenes, skip side missions and overlevel so no its not really fluff.

Edited by Dorothea Joestar Arnold
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1 hour ago, Dorothea Joestar Arnold said:

It was on normal so of course it would be easy to rush, skip cutscenes, skip side missions and overlevel so no its not really fluff.

It is fluff. The reviewer might have rushed battles, but clearly took time to read the story and pay attention to the cutscenes as they go into details bout both. They also mention exploring versus fast travel. So yes 45 hours on normal while going through everything and maybe not focusing on ALL of it seems reasonable. But he said 60+ not rushing, but I doubt not rushing will really add more than 15 hours. And realistically it would get easier with further playthroughs and you'd be smarter about your time and what you do.

So 60, 60, and probably like 50 when you get it down is not 200 hours. So yes. Fluff.  

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