FE16 Same-Sex Relationship Discussion

[iavasechui]

XD who made that pic it’s awesome

[Kyan Surr]

I lost it with Annette appearing in the background 😂 

Accurate (and sad) representation, yeah.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Kyan Surr

[HappyHawlucha.]

So you can be both Annette's dad and her daddy 😉

I'll see myself out

[Book Bro]

Everybody freaking out about how romancing students is creepy, and IS just walks in like "bang your students' parents".

[zuibangde]

The picture is hilarious. All it's missing is Alois' wife.

Potentially appearing as a ghost. 

Edited July 14, 2019 by zuibangde

[timon]

1 hour ago, Book Bro said:

Everybody freaking out about how romancing students is creepy, and IS just walks in like "bang your students' parents".

tbh I don't get that either, I've read countless "outraged" reactions to romancing "students" (i.e. people of the same age that are being taught how to hold a sword, not primary school), and very few that actually consider the fact that Alois (and potentially Gilbert as well) are MARRIED and have a CHILD, and yet they're homosexual options.

I don't know, maybe I'm the weird one, but going after an old man that's in a heterosexual marriage sounds a lot creepier than fancying a person/comrade you instruct.

Edited July 14, 2019 by timon

[SSbardock84]

I honestly laughed so hard when I saw male Byleth's options. Tbh it feels like they're purposely trolling people.

[Michelaar]

25 minutes ago, timon said:

tbh I don't get that either, I've read countless "outraged" reactions to romancing "students" (i.e. people of the same age that are being taught how to hold a sword, not primary school), and very few that actually consider the fact that Alois (and potentially Gilbert as well) are MARRIED and have a CHILD, and yet they're homosexual options.

I don't know, maybe I'm the weird one, but going after an old man that's in a heterosexual marriage sounds a lot creepier than fancying a person/comrade you instruct.

I'm guessing if you can romance them they won't be in that relationship when you enter that S-Support. Or do you think IS is gonna have them cheating on their spouses? I also don't really see what having children has to do with anything considering there is plenty of real life people with children coming out as gay/bi and getting together with someone of the same sex.

[ayahitaisyou]

37 minutes ago, timon said:

tbh I don't get that either, I've read countless "outraged" reactions to romancing "students" (i.e. people of the same age that are being taught how to hold a sword, not primary school), and very few that actually consider the fact that Alois (and potentially Gilbert as well) are MARRIED and have a CHILD, and yet they're homosexual options.

I don't know, maybe I'm the weird one, but going after an old man that's in a heterosexual marriage sounds a lot creepier than fancying a person/comrade you instruct.

That's why I think S support is not necessarily equal to romance. I don't get that people think  IS is too obsolete to have appreciate same-sex romance options and radical enough to make a married man into gay romance at the same time. That is just unreasonable.

[Florete]

16 minutes ago, ayahitaisyou said:

That's why I think S support is not necessarily equal to romance. I don't get that people think  IS is too obsolete to have appreciate same-sex romance options and radical enough to make a married man into gay romance at the same time. That is just unreasonable.

• For as long as S rank has existed in FE, it's been romance (marriage, even, but it might not be marriage here).
• We've seen in this game that S ranks exist for all opposite sex characters and only a few same sex characters.
• We were told during E3 that players could romance a character post time skip.

Seems extraordinarily likely that S rank is romance. Alois' wife is probably dead.

[firewitch912]

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

I'm guessing if you can romance them they won't be in that relationship when you enter that S-Support. Or do you think IS is gonna have them cheating on their spouses? I also don't really see what having children has to do with anything considering there is plenty of real life people with children coming out as gay/bi and getting together with someone of the same sex.

I think their point is that it's strange that people find dating your students questionable, when they're the same age and you only date them after you finish teaching, but most of the gay options are men who have much more of that age difference dynamic, since they're easily twice you're age. Gilbert having a kid who we assume is Annette means that he's literally dating someone his daughter's age. And the problem with Alois is that he has a wife, less so about his kid. I'm personally interested in how they show that Alois is no longer married could be really good or it could be really terrible.

Edit @ayahitaisyou: I think S rank not necessarily being romantic would be even worse honestly. Because not only would there still be this limited number of same sex relationships, but also you'd essentially remove the romance of some of them. Meanwhile the straight options would be plenty.

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by firewitch912

[Michelaar]

1 hour ago, firewitch912 said:

I think their point is that it's strange that people find dating your students questionable, when they're the same age and you only date them after you finish teaching, but most of the gay options are men who have much more of that age difference dynamic, since they're easily twice you're age. Gilbert having a kid who we assume is Annette means that he's literally dating someone his daughter's age. 

Edit @ayahitaisyou

The thing about Alois I won't touch since it's kinda weird that people think IS would have us be a homewrecker. On the Gilbert thing, this too happens all the time. My driving instructor's wife is a year younger than his eldest daughter, and they are one of the happiest couples I have ever seen, and his eldest daughter and his wife are great Friends. Not liking the age of the choices is one thing, but saying it's weird because of baloney reasons like that is simply ignorant of the real world, as well.

[Vanil]

I honestly wouldnt mind the old options as much if we:

1. Had more younger characters, possibly including the lords since lets be real. It's obvious the lords are always going to be popular, so it makes sense to just make them an option too.

2. The female options had older options. And I dont mean what they have now, I mean make an actual old hag character with wrinkles and stuff. Whenever theres an older women character she is still young/youthful. At least from what I obverse. 

[Etrurian emperor]

5 hours ago, zuibangde said:

The picture is hilarious. All it's missing is Alois' wife.

Potentially appearing as a ghost. 

I suspect he actually doesn't have a wife. He mentions her but probably its the sort of wife no one has actually seen and who's conveniantly on another continent when someone asks about her.

[wizzard of soz]

the thing that makes me iffy about Alois, aside from the things that've been noted, is that he's Byleth's dad's friend, who has been a presence in Byleth's life for who knows how long. if the same situation applied to me, i'd be dating a guy who at one point changed my diapers and babysat me. he looks great, though, and the snips of his personality revealed so far make for a charming character.

[firewitch912]

38 minutes ago, Michelaar said:

The thing about Alois I won't touch since it's kinda weird that people think IS would have us be a homewrecker. On the Gilbert thing, this too happens all the time. My driving instructor's wife is a year younger than his eldest daughter, and they are one of the happiest couples I have ever seen, and his eldest daughter and his wife are great Friends. Not liking the age of the choices is one thing, but saying it's weird because of baloney reasons like that is simply ignorant of the real world, as well.

I don't think he would be a homewrecker, but it is concerning that he is already married yet still an option. And I'm not saying that there can't be couples with age difference, it's just that there is a clear power dynamic there and people seem to be ignoring it while they're concerned about romancing students. The issue with age really only appears because the majority of m/m options have that huge age gap. If we had one or two students in addition to this list, there wouldn't be as much of an issue. 

And I'm happy for your driving instructor, but that doesn't negate the fact that statistically a lot of relationships with those age differences (especially when the younger person is just barely 18 like we're talking about here) can be abusive. Now obviously this is a video game and so that won't be the case, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong for being concerned about real world implications or how my personal experience of this real world issue make me wary of its portrayal in a video game.

29 minutes ago, Vanil said:

I honestly wouldnt mind the old options as much if we:

1. Had more younger characters, possibly including the lords since lets be real. It's obvious the lords are always going to be popular, so it makes sense to just make them an option too.

2. The female options had older options. And I dont mean what they have now, I mean make an actual old hag character with wrinkles and stuff. Whenever theres an older women character she is still young/youthful. At least from what I obverse. 

1. Yeah, it would be better if there were additional students as options. And a lord, because that way we also have a major character as an option.

2. This is really less about f/f options and more about how women are portrayed in video games and media in general. And there would still be an issue if f/f included some of the noticeably older characters as a majority of their options. The issue would just be more general in how they handled same sex options rather than a focus on m/m ones

[Vanil]

2 minutes ago, firewitch912 said:

1. Yeah, it would be better if there were additional students as options. And a lord, because that way we also have a major character as an option.

2. This is really less about f/f options and more about how women are portrayed in video games and media in general. And there would still be an issue if f/f included some of the noticeably older characters as a majority of their options. The issue would just be more general in how they handled same sex options rather than a focus on m/m ones

Yeah, it's more about female characters in fiction in general. Though its still something I feel the need to point out. Since a lot of the arguments I have been seeing lately is that mlm players should be grateful they are getting good representation with older mlm characters/conventionally unattractive characters , and when people point out its not fair there is usually the whole "Well x is an old wlw option" argument being thrown back, even though she's like eternally youthful/old but still young enough to be considered beautiful. Though what I am trying to say is that, if the f/f options were similar with like 1 student and two of the older characters then people probably wouldn't be as mad at the clear bias. Sure the focus of the issue would shift but at least the options would be considered more fair/unbias. Idk.

[Michelaar]

7 minutes ago, firewitch912 said:

I don't think he would be a homewrecker, but it is concerning that he is already married yet still an option. And I'm not saying that there can't be couples with age difference, it's just that there is a clear power dynamic there and people seem to be ignoring it while they're concerned about romancing students. The issue with age really only appears because the majority of m/m options have that huge age gap. If we had one or two students in addition to this list, there wouldn't be as much of an issue. 

And I'm happy for your driving instructor, but that doesn't negate the fact that statistically a lot of relationships with those age differences (especially when the younger person is just barely 18 like we're talking about here) can be abusive. Now obviously this is a video game and so that won't be the case, but that doesn't mean that I'm wrong for being concerned about real world implications or how my personal experience of this real world issue make me wary of its portrayal in a video game.

1. Yeah, it would be better if there were additional students as options. And a lord, because that way we also have a major character as an option.

2. This is really less about f/f options and more about how women are portrayed in video games and media in general. And there would still be an issue if f/f included some of the noticeably older characters as a majority of their options. The issue would just be more general in how they handled same sex options rather than a focus on m/m ones

I'm afraid you've completely lost me. All I can say, you seem to have a LOT of assumptions. I see that what I'm saying is doing no good so let's just agree to disagree.

[firewitch912]

5 minutes ago, Vanil said:

Yeah, it's more about female characters in fiction in general. Though its still something I feel the need to point out. Since a lot of the arguments I have been seeing lately is that mlm players should be grateful they are getting good representation with older mlm characters/conventionally unattractive characters , and when people point out its not fair there is usually the whole "Well x is an old wlw option" argument being thrown back, even though she's like eternally youthful/old but still young enough to be considered beautiful. Though what I am trying to say is that, if the f/f options were similar with like 1 student and two of the older characters then people probably wouldn't be as mad at the clear bias. Sure the focus of the issue would shift but at least the options would be considered more fair/unbias. Idk.

I mean yes, the options between m/m and f/f would be more fair and balanced if we had older w/w options. However, we also need to compare our options to the m/f options. In a game where 2/3 of the men and women are youthful and conventionally attractive (even though all of the older women are still conventionally attractive despite age), it seems disheartening that the same sex options would be 2/3 older people

[Vanil]

1 minute ago, firewitch912 said:

I mean yes, the options between m/m and f/f would be more fair and balanced if we had older w/w options. However, we also need to compare our options to the m/f options. In a game where 2/3 of the men and women are youthful and conventionally attractive (even though all of the older women are still conventionally attractive despite age), it seems disheartening that the same sex options would be 2/3 older people

Oh, yes it would be. However as I originally stated, I said if that was the case I would probably be less upset if that was the case. Not that I wouldn't be upset in general.

[firewitch912]

20 minutes ago, Vanil said:

Oh, yes it would be. However as I originally stated, I said if that was the case I would probably be less upset if that was the case. Not that I wouldn't be upset in general.

I didn't mean to sound accusatory, and I'm sorry if I did. My main thing is that there shouldn't even need to be that comparison between m/m and f/f options in a way that's insulting to queer women. The f/f options are good, provided all Thani spoilers are true, and we shouldn't disparage them because of the lacking m/m options. Comparing the two can give us a good starting point for asking for more/better m/m rep in fire emblem games, but we should also make sure that our focus is on the overarching plethora of m/f options and how those compare to all same sex options.

Edit: I want to clarify that the disparaging of f/f options isn't anything you said, but rather stuff I've seen on twitter

Edited July 14, 2019 by firewitch912

[Vanil]

1 minute ago, firewitch912 said:

I didn't mean to sound accusatory, and I'm sorry if I did. My main thing is that there shouldn't even need to be that comparison between m/m and f/f options in a way that's insulting to queer women. The f/f options are good, provided all Thani spoilers are true, and we shouldn't disparage them because of the lacking m/m options. Comparing the two can give us a good starting point for asking for more/better m/m rep in fire emblem games, but we should also make sure that our focus is on the overarching plethora of m/f options and how those compare to all same sex options.

Fair enough, that would certainly be ideal. Who knows though, iirc the DLCs are also coming out with free updates. Perhaps if we are heard enough they can slip in more options with that free update. 

That's a bit of wishful thinking though I feel.

[NegativeExponents-]

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I suspect he actually doesn't have a wife. He mentions her but probably its the sort of wife no one has actually seen and who's conveniantly on another continent when someone asks about her.

That reminds of the comment that someone said over at reddit of how Alois might be a case of Samurai Flamenco and that would be wild but also make a lot of sense since Chinatsu Kurahana actually did some work for that series.

[May B.]

I thought a little bit about this and honestly? I am not buying a switch so soon.

It's not even because I wanted a specific character since I would be playing Byleth as himself, not a self-insert (and I really like Byleth/Shamir atm), but because I just feel like it's unfair.

I always play with male Avatars and Byleth would be no exception, but he certainly got the short end of the stick with the supports. I mean, if F!By can date the female lord, why can't M!By date the other two? Especially when he gets 2 less options. 

People like to say "well, at least (...)". I am tired of 'at leasts', why can't they do a good job for once?

Basically I was so disappointed that I am feeling resentment towards this game and IS.

Well, I said my piece. As I said at the beginning, I am not buying a switch just yet. I will wait for the switch Lite anyways (it is more my style) and wait for my salt to run over lol I will still keep up with the updates, you never know if things will change (although I am not getting my hopes up).

At the end of the day, my only conclusion if that Male Byleth got  a good design while Fem Byleth got good supports, you can't have both 😛

[Lewyn]

So one can pick scantily clad female Byleth and then pair her up with one of several of the most attractive women in the game.  I think a lot of straight men are going to pick that option.