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FE16 Same-Sex Relationship Discussion

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As far as "the choices" and certain characters appealing more to LGBT, I don't think it's quite as complicated as all that. If these same 5 women and 3 men were the only S rankable options in general I imagine straight women would be upset too.

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The thing is, more same-sex options would bring in a LOT of people. Do you know how many games I've played just because I knew I'd get to gay marry? Like, 1. Do you know how many games I got because there was a gay marriage mod for it? Many. I know there are others who feel this way.

Hopefully the modding scene takes fucking control asap and gets me a good gay marriage patch for FE3H, because we obviously can't expect IS or Nintendo to care enough.

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13 minutes ago, iavasechui said:

Well Baldur’s gate 2 ee had an exclusively gay female npc the player could romance my problem with her had nothing to do with the fact that she was gay and everything to do with the fact that she was a vampire who quite literally killed a character in the party then asked to join us... so not the best example there (and the male romance option was a bi halforc who was also evil aligned) honestly I was more annoyed that all the ‘official’ (remake only characters) gay romance options were evil. Granted I’m not gay so unlikely to play those paths but seriously why were they both evil -_-;

For pretty much the same reason that Niles and Rhajat are the way that they are. Villains are often queercoded and so Queer people are often coded as evil/villainous, or otherwise sexually deviant and stalkerish.

11 minutes ago, Aquarius said:
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I wonder how the LGBT Fire Emblem fan base would've reacted differently if Raphael and Lorenz were the other gay choices instead of Gilbert and Alios. It seems to me that the outrage is less about lack of number of representation of M&M LGBT choices or how good the characters are and more about not pandering to their personal tastes. i.e None of the Blue Lions males came be romanced, I wanted Claude, Linhert is too feminine or not my taste, Alios and Gilbert are to old etc. 

 

1. people would be happier with Raphael, as already said earlier in this thread. Also Lorenz's character is clearly very hetero, his description states as much.

2. It's a mix of all of these things. It's not about pandering really though. Yes people mention specific characters that they would have liked, but they're examples of the lack of a kind of character type for m/m romance. The critiques are that we don't have a younger more masculine character choice, which actually has a lot more to do with stereotypical ideas about what queer men look like. The addition of Alois was great, until we found out he currently has a wife. And the issue people have with Gilbert is that he fills the same general role as Alois of being an older male, and we have very limited info on anything else about him. He's shaping up to clearly be a side character.

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3 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

But regardless, it's less about the fact that it even appeals to lesbian women in the first place and more the fact that they don't really seem to put much thought into appealing to women in general while they definitely do their utmost to tick all the right boxes when it comes to appealing to straight men.  For example, the dark mage design in Fates was supposed to be for straight women what Camilla was for straight men.  Yet when I hear women talk about what they like in Fates, practically none of them bring up the dark mage design.  What I usually hear about instead is characters like Leo or Xander, who are characters that already had a lot of thought put into them as-is (I'm sure without designers/writers even thinking about how they appeal to women).

Well, I actually think at least Leo and Takumi were designed with women in mind; Takumi has a character archtype that is quite popular with females and Leo was voiced for freaking Mamoru Miyano.

___

I was also expecting Raphael to be the character to be used for bara stuff... maybe in the obscure comics that nodoby should read.

Edited by Troykv

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To be fair IS did give the LGBT fire emblem more LBGT options this time.  Around 8 total I believe. If Claude, Dimitri or some more physical appealing guys were choices instead of two older guys or they gave the same number of choices for both man and women maybe the outrage wouldn't have been as bad. (Though I use the outrage loosely) Not sure if more total options of LGBT reps would of got more attention though. If I were going 100% blind and u told me there's 8 total LGBT options and that there's 3 male options with out context I would be thrilled. But if u told me that 2 of the 3 are old man and one is married my reaction would change quantity doesn't equal quality after all,  at least from my perspective. 

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1 hour ago, Ertrick36 said:

instead of a deliberate fetishizing of lesbianism for straight men

This in the West has a "tradition" of this dating back to at least the 1700s. Back then, brainy French dudes who said "**** the Church!" wrote about ****ing in the Church. They wrote of heterosexual cases of priests putting St. Francis's Cord in sweet young female parishioners as they knelt and prayed. And they wrote of supposed flagrant lesbianism running rampant in the nunneries, not that I think they ever visited a single one in person.

 

3 hours ago, FeatheredDragon said:

I think I’d be impossible to cater for what everyone wants in a gay/lesbian romance.

And shouldn't that be as diverse as what straight people would want out of romance? The only difference is the percentage of the consumer base they make up. Since they're much smaller, they can't get as many candidates, and therefore it is harder to include a fuller and satisfying diversity.

 

 

...Not like any of this really matters to me. All I truly want to know the battlefield to not-battlefield ratio. Spending half the game not engaged in battle is too high for me, I'd prefer it to be no more than a third.

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23 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

To be fair IS did give the LGBT fire emblem more LBGT options this time.  Around 8 total I believe. If Claude, Dimitri or some more physical appealing guys were choices instead of two older guys or they gave the same number of choices for both man and women maybe the outrage wouldn't have been as bad. (Though I use the outrage loosely) Not sure if more total options of LGBT reps would of got more attention though. If I were going 100% blind and u told me there's 8 total LGBT options and that there's 3 male options with out context I would be thrilled. But if u told me that 2 of the 3 are old man and one is married my reaction would change quantity doesn't equal quality after all,  at least from my perspective. 

I mean that's essentially what happened. We had rumors about there being 3 m and 5 f and were really excited. We also had pretty good info and rumors about all of them except for one man. The issue arose when we found out who that third man was, not because he's unattractive but because he brings no new diversity to the roster of m/m options we have, and he's blatantly shown as unimportant, as there's practically no info about him. We also found out that one of the options is currently married. With such questionable quality for most of the m/m options, it's understandable that we're not happy. That doesn't mean we should remove Gilbert and replace him, but rather add another option, which is where the question of quantity comes in.

13 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

And shouldn't that be as diverse as what straight people would want out of romance? The only difference is the percentage of the consumer base they make up. Since they're much smaller, they can't get as many candidates, and therefore it is harder to include a fuller and satisfying diversity.

 

 

...Not like any of this really matters to me. All I truly want to know the battlefield to not-battlefield ratio. Spending half the game not engaged in battle is too high for me, I'd prefer it to be no more than a third.

I mean this really hits the mark. We're more critical of our options because we simply have less of a choice. Straight players have plenty of choice, and if they don't like a character then they have options elsewhere, houses full of them actually.

I think the ratio of battle to monastery is what you make of it. It really depends on how much times and effort you want to put into the monastery and training section.

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4 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

In fact, I almost have to wonder if women would prefer the likes of Shamir and Catherine over students.

I'd trade Edelgard for Catherine or Manuela with great enthusiasm.

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2 hours ago, firewitch912 said:

For pretty much the same reason that Niles and Rhajat are the way that they are. Villains are often queercoded and so Queer people are often coded as evil/villainous, or otherwise sexually deviant and stalkerish.

1. people would be happier with Raphael, as already said earlier in this thread. Also Lorenz's character is clearly very hetero, his description states as much.

2. It's a mix of all of these things. It's not about pandering really though. Yes people mention specific characters that they would have liked, but they're examples of the lack of a kind of character type for m/m romance. The critiques are that we don't have a younger more masculine character choice, which actually has a lot more to do with stereotypical ideas about what queer men look like. The addition of Alois was great, until we found out he currently has a wife. And the issue people have with Gilbert is that he fills the same general role as Alois of being an older male, and we have very limited info on anything else about him. He's shaping up to clearly be a side character.

1.  I used Lorenz as an example  because most heterosexuals would have peg him as a gay/bi option at first glance i.e queer looking stereotypes if he did not have a profile due to his looks I know already that he is hetero from from his description but if a hetero were told there's gay options and told them to guess who are they without giving actual information on them  I guarantee Lorenz would be at the top of the list without much thought.  And yes I'm aware it could be seen as stereotyping but that's only at first glance. I didn't skim through all of the answers in this post so I wasn't aware of people's thoughts about Raphael.

2. Wanting a younger more masculine man as an option is still pandering though? I'm aware there's a clear stereotype for what a gay man would look from a heterosexual person perspective. I have gay friends that at first glance would like look and act like they were as heterosexual as possible. But are into other guys or bi. The whole current support system in fire emblem  is about pandering. Granted it's mostly to straight people and I definitely understand your points and complaints cause it's not fair. But if the situation was in reverse and the straight fans got the same treatment as what LGBT got  in regards to only three choices with two of them being older non feminine looking women instead of younger hot looking women their reaction would be the same. 

 

1 hour ago, Darkdragoon324 said:

I'd trade Edelgard for Catherine or Manuela with great enthusiasm.

I Low key thought Shamir would be A bi option when I saw her at first glance. Catherine seems like she would have been a good choice too.  

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Wow, that's a long thread considering it was only started yesterday. At any rate, Dorothea and Mercedes seem like cool lesbian picks (does anyone know if these are regarding Byleth alone? Mercedes x Annette would be cool) and Alois is amazing. I do hope these are not confirmed to be the only ones, because RIP Hanneman otherwise.

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26 minutes ago, Goddess Serra said:

Wow, that's a long thread considering it was only started yesterday. At any rate, Dorothea and Mercedes seem like cool lesbian picks (does anyone know if these are regarding Byleth alone? Mercedes x Annette would be cool) and Alois is amazing. I do hope these are not confirmed to be the only ones, because RIP Hanneman otherwise.

They're confirmed the only ones, especially since we've got multiple sources confirming that all characters have already been seen. There's technically two unconfirmed f/f options but

Spoiler

they're most likely Sothis and Rhea, since thani said so and at least one previewer unofficially confirmed it

 

39 minutes ago, Aquarius said:

1.  I used Lorenz as an example  because most heterosexuals would have peg him as a gay/bi option at first glance i.e queer looking stereotypes if he did not have a profile due to his looks I know already that he is hetero from from his description but if a hetero were told there's gay options and told them to guess who are they without giving actual information on them  I guarantee Lorenz would be at the top of the list without much thought.  And yes I'm aware it could be seen as stereotyping but that's only at first glance. I didn't skim through all of the answers in this post so I wasn't aware of people's thoughts about Raphael.

2. Wanting a younger more masculine man as an option is still pandering though? I'm aware there's a clear stereotype for what a gay man would look from a heterosexual person perspective. I have gay friends that at first glance would like look and act like they were as heterosexual as possible. But are into other guys or bi. The whole current support system in fire emblem  is about pandering. Granted it's mostly to straight people and I definitely understand your points and complaints cause it's not fair. But if the situation was in reverse and the straight fans got the same treatment as what LGBT got  in regards to only three choices with two of them being older non feminine looking women instead of younger hot looking women their reaction would be the same. 

1. We shouldn't be talking about what straight people expect for gay characters though. it's definitely stereotyping.

2. Once again, stereotypes from straight people shouldn't be limiting my choices as a LGBT person. Your statement about your gay friends only reinforces the idea that the stereotypes being the only availability is silly, and that it would be reasonable, not pandering, to have m/m options that reflect that. As for the reverse hypothetical, that's been our entire point so I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. There isn't much pandering at all to LGBT people, it's all been for straight people. 

Edit: And why would it be so wrong that we want to be pandered to just like all the straight people in the FE community?

Edited by firewitch912

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Oh boy, we reached reddit-level of hypocrisy in no time.

Look at that, my entitlement-watch tells me, that it's the perfect time to delete this account.

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1 minute ago, magenero29 said:

And are we sure that they aren't options if we pick their houses path?

Yes, according to reviewers.

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1 minute ago, magenero29 said:

And are we sure that they aren't options if we pick their houses path?

Unfortunately, the screenshot confirming them as non-options is from the main-screen support viewer, that shows all available supports. 

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1 minute ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Unfortunately, the screenshot confirming them as non-options is from the main-screen support viewer, that shows all available supports. 

Are there any more male options besides these 3...

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1 minute ago, magenero29 said:

Are there any more male options besides these 3...

Nope.

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1 minute ago, magenero29 said:

Are there any more male options besides these 3...

Not that we know of. Theoretically possible post-skip, but don't get your hopes up.

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2 minutes ago, magenero29 said:

Are there any more male options besides these 3...

No other options have been confirmed outside of those 3. Its possible there may be others we don't know about yet but that seems unlikely as all characters should supposedly be there from the beginning.

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YIKES such a meltdown here.....I wouldn't go far to attempt to mod over this but I can understand that the Male side is pretty bad I mean Alois and Gilbert are really the worse options yet especially with their backstory making this a dumbfounded decision I can get that at least and shows the obvious male audience and yuri favoritism.

Edited by Dorothea Joestar Arnold

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3 hours ago, firewitch912 said:

They're confirmed the only ones, especially since we've got multiple sources confirming that all characters have already been seen. There's technically two unconfirmed f/f options but

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I may be stupidly optimistic here but I think the possibility of more units post time skip is fairly high. I definitely think we've seen all the characters that are available in the school phase, but it's important to remember that any info pertaining to events after Ch.10(could be a tad later than this, but Ch 10 is what I've heard) aren't allowed to be discussed by reviewers. IMO, the chances of more male options in the form of characters that only appear in the war phase are slim but not impossible. I know the extras screen shows all possible supports, but there's a small possibility it displays characters from the school phase only. Again, this could just be wishful thinking on my part.

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