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FE16 Same-Sex Relationship Discussion

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5 minutes ago, Vanil said:

I really don't see how it's a stretch to come to that conclusion based off what we know and the clear differences. But if you think it's a stretch then that's fine.

But serious question, you guys have also laws that protect one from false accusations and defamation, yes and (acted) homophobia is also against the law?

It is not that i expect anyone to act like this, but i find it flabbergasting to interact with people and flinging such accusations around on basically no information.

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10 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

EDIT:

I am not a native speaker, so my apologies if i use the terms in the wrong context.

What I am saying is that it is wrong to pose opinions as Facts (which has been done multiple times here) when the only reason to do so is because facts can not be argued against, opinions though, even if having the same merit on an argumentative basis can be disagreed upon.

I concur on the listed facts, but not only do these facts incorporate some things we do not know (like plot relevancy) what they actually mean has to be interpreted, which is exactly what I am arguing for. I also never said that the sole issue is that some of the existing ones should be changed but that WAS voiced in this thread and i found that not really agreeable.

I wonder about the last point though quadrupling the amount of choices does not spell homophobia to me, i find that quite disingenious.

But that's what I'm saying though is that opinions are formed around facts so you can't really expect people to consciously separate the two when voicing about whether they are happy or upset about the current mlm options. Some arguments such as the relationship between Japanese culture and LGBT community cannot be proven with indisputable facts but that doesn't mean their arguments are less valid. 

I'm curious...if opinions formed around the facts I listed are not good enough, what exactly do you consider a valid argument'? 

Also, I'm kind of confused about your comment about my last point. My intention was to show how with an abundance of young male characters, only one was chosen as an mlm option. On the other hand, there are 11 female students and 3 of them are wlw options. The last point is to show the inequality between the options again. 

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1 minute ago, Lord of Riva said:

But serious question, you guys have also laws that protect one from false accusations and defamation, yes and (acted) homophobia is also against the law?

It is not that i expect anyone to act like this, but i find it flabbergasting to interact with people and flinging such accusations around on basically no information.

I don't think such laws are even a point here. What? Someone is gonna track everyone down and sue us all for saying we feel like the choices they pick have some seed of homophobia ingrained into it? No.

And there IS information though. You've been dismissing it though. The information isn't a straight up recording of the devs saying the hate queer men. But by examining what we know and asking why we can form some theories/thoughts on the matter.

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@zuibangde

I have no clue why but i can not quote your post or even highlight it so my apologies if i miss something.

I voiced multiple times now that the voiced opinions are valid arguments, they are just not "facts" and can (and should... ) be debated.

However i also do expect people to differentiate between opinion and fact, solely since wrongly stating opinion as fact is a debate technique to discredit the other sides argument. It is the basis of respect to do this, otherwise i would have to assume that most people do not know what they are talking about, that is not something i would do... it would be rather unproductive.

And I am now confused about your confusion with my statement XD

why would the ratio Male to male and young to old be in any way a quality difference compared to the female side?

 

 

Quote

don't think such laws are even a point here. What? Someone is gonna track everyone down and sue us all for saying we feel like the choices they pick have some seed of homophobia ingrained into it? No

No, nobody would, is that why it is disregarded? nice.

Quote

The information isn't a straight up recording of the devs saying the hate queer men. But by examining what we know and asking why we can form some theories/thoughts on the matter.

This is also called conjecture or interpretation, hardly a basis for telling someone a homophobe.

It's like me saying you are an Arsonist, because i think your profile picture shows signs of you being a psychopath, would you like people collectively attacking you on that basis? no? i did not think so.

Edited by Lord of Riva

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Like most people have said disappointed with the same sex choices for Male Byleth along with having only 3 (compared to the 5 Female Byleth has) in the game. I'm perfectly fine with Linhardt (I could tell Linhardt was a guy at first look...I have seen quite a few characters with his type of hairstyle in games and etc), Byleth & Linhardt around the same age group, and I'm really looking forward to getting to know Linhardt (Any true reason behind why he likes napping or if he simply likes napping or perhaps napping because does not want to deal with the world). I'm okay with Gilbert, but....with Alois pretty iffy with him ^_^; for various reasons....

I'm rather thrilled and happy about the same sex choices for Female Byleth. For me that outfit has a bit too much going on, but her DLC Outfit looks epic. I'm glad there are no 2nd Gens 👏

Same sex support is a bit of a step up from Fire Emblems Fate: There was only one f/f (Rhajat in Birthright which was highly uncomfortable due to her being 2nd Gen along with being friends with her parents and other stuff.....) and one m/m (Niles in Conquest).

At least we do not have to buy two different copies (or buying DLC to pick a different side) in order to have f/f (Birthright) and m/m (Conquest) in our Fire Emblem. In Fire Emblem Three Houses just have to pick a house (no need to buy dlc in order to pick house).

I'm curious if the support conversations will be any good 🤔for about 50% of previous Fire Emblems I did not find the conversations to be truly appealing....

Once the game is released and I have played it for I do not know how many hours: I'm think of writing in a notebook a lot of same sex supports conversations for Male Byleth 🌈for he deserves more and better male options. Everyone has their tastes. Hopefully the next game improves 🙏

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I don't mean to be rude you guys, but going back and forth like this with each other is not going to solve any issue you might have with eachother.

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I will say this I have no strong opinions on the matter, what I would have said has already been said. I really just wish S supports weren't in this game to begin with.

____

I will say this, there is no such thing a a wrong opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own.

If you see one you disagree with just move on. Don't get offended when someone else gets offended, I can never wrap my mind around how people can be like that.

I personally don't see anyone in the past few posts seem like they're trying to start something. I understand there is a strong negative emotional response here to the news about the m|m relationship choices.

in the words of a wise man "Take a chill pill"

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6 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

@zuibangde

I have no clue why but i can not quote your post or even highlight it so my apologies if i miss something.

I voiced multiple times now that the voiced opinions are valid arguments, they are just not "facts" and can (and should... ) be debated.

However i also do expect people to differentiate between opinion and fact, solely since wrongly stating opinion as fact is a debate technique to discredit the other sides argument. It is the basis of respect to do this, otherwise i would have to assume that most people do not know what they are talking about, that is not something i would do... it would be rather unproductive.

And I am now confused about your confusion with my statement XD

why would the ratio Male to male and young to old be in any way a quality difference compared to the female side?

 

 

No, nobody would, is that why it is disregarded? nice.

This is also called conjecture or interpretation, hardly a basis for telling someone a homophobe.

It's like me saying you are an Arsonist, because i think your profile picture shows signs of you being a psychopath, would you like people collectively attacking you on that basis? no? i did not think so.

Mobile is being weird with quoting so gonna leave all that in ig.

That's not why it's being disregarded no, just that why are you saying "Y'know you can get sued so shh"

And here is where I drop out. At least what I am saying as some form of logic behind. That example is just. Horrible. Whatever.

 

All in all. Imo at least it feels like the m/m options are picked as the options someone who is against m/m would care about the least. Is there concrete proof. No, but it comes across that way. So like. Whatever. The options are fine as it is but the way they're picked. 

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18 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

@zuibangde

I have no clue why but i can not quote your post or even highlight it so my apologies if i miss something.

I voiced multiple times now that the voiced opinions are valid arguments, they are just not "facts" and can (and should... ) be debated.

However i also do expect people to differentiate between opinion and fact, solely since wrongly stating opinion as fact is a debate technique to discredit the other sides argument. It is the basis of respect to do this, otherwise i would have to assume that most people do not know what they are talking about, that is not something i would do... it would be rather unproductive.

And I am now confused about your confusion with my statement XD

why would the ratio Male to male and young to old be in any way a quality difference compared to the female side?

My computers been acting up lately so I apologise if there’s some formatting issues.

Ok if opinions are valid arguments, I’m not sure why you’re being dismissive to them. Either way, this isn’t some scholarly debate  and like I said earlier, the issues people find regarding the mlm options are highly emotional and I personally can understand why they may draw certain conclusions even though they aren’t entirely supported by facts.

The ratios regarding age and gender isn’t presented as a sign of quality. It was merely to show the unexplained difference between the wlw and mlm options. It can be interpreted as a sign of quality (and many here do so). Some people find it inexplicably unfair and some people don’t find it as an issue; both interpretations are valid.

Edited by zuibangde

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While S-supports aren't really my cup of tea, it's nice to see a good amount of representation in 3H, my only hope is that the characters are well written and meaningful, and not just representation for the sake of representation. Can't wait for 3H release. 

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In the end I'll probably see which supports I like the most of the 3. Chances are I'll just recruit Linhardt though since he doesn't have any immediate baggage like the others.

After the release though and some time passes I'll probably just @ their Twitter once or twice. Doubt they'll patch any more options in to appease people, but hey. Maybe in FE17 if they keep romance we won't have this issue again.

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(quoting you now works, for whatever reasons)

I do not try to be dismissive of them, I am disagreeing with them, as said i do understand why having certain options and not others can be quite frustrating.

21 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

The ratios regarding age and gender isn’t presented as a sign of quality. It was merely to show the unexplained difference between the wlw and mlm options. 

Well okay, i grant you that it is unexplained and hopefully they address this, however from what i see i doubt that the answer will be seen as valid, a lot of people have already drawn conclusions about the devs intention it seems.

I am now going to listen to the section moderator and take my hat and and a chill pill. However I want to implore everyone who is angered: Anger is seldom the right answer towards another person and the behavior of the community, regardless of it being the FE community. lgbtq community, gamers in general the behavior of you will be used as ammunition against you.

And I personally can do without

Edited by Lord of Riva

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I have been avoiding spoilers like the plague and I also don't know what the hell is going on in this thread but I had to come see whether this was confirmed and am both pleased for the inclusion AND disappointed at the wlw choices! Rollercoaster of emotion.

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So a voice actress confirmed that she voices a character called Judith which confirms that there are characters we haven’t seen yet. Hopefully there will be 1 or 2 mlm options post skip so everyone can be happy.

Edited by zuibangde

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4 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

So a voice actress confirmed that she voices a character called Judith which confirms that there are characters we haven’t seen yet. Hopefully there will be 1 or 2 mlm options post skip so everyone can be happy.

I WANT TO HOPE AND BELIEVE...!!! We've got nothing to lose at this point.. (and can steel up for disappointment. hah...)

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For all we know, this "Judith" could be a little girl who just says "Thank you!" after rescuing them from bandits and bringing them back to their parents, who pay you with a Silver Lance. Or, she could be a Dracoknight wielding said Silver Lance, and she brings along her A Supported (not S!) friend Yuri, who then makes short work of the rest of 3H because he's awesome.

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Well if she's taking the time to describe Judith's personality briefly while also proudly announcing the role, I imagine she's at least somewhat important of a character, on the level of a playable character or notable NPC. But who knows which it is yet.

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9 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

For all we know, this "Judith" could be a little girl who just says "Thank you!" after rescuing them from bandits and bringing them back to their parents, who pay you with a Silver Lance. Or, she could be a Dracoknight wielding said Silver Lance, and she brings along her A Supported (not S!) friend Yuri, who then makes short work of the rest of 3H because he's awesome.

Thank you so much for making the joke I wanted to make but doing it in a way that actually works ^_^ I love tales of vesperia!

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Hmm. IGN said there are 3 same-sex S supports for both genders yet mention Rhea and Sothis can be S-supported in the same sentence. Bit confused. Maybe S support for those two is platonic or something. Like the Owain Lucina one in Awakening that's listed as "companions"

Yep. Only 3 for both.

Spoiler

FETH_SupportChart.png?width=1600

Same sex are highlighted in purple. Rhea and Sothis don't seem to be considered as normal S-supports for both genders. Might be something like the paired endings in the GBA era. Thank god you can't lewd the dragon loli

Edited by redlight

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6 hours ago, redlight said:

Hmm. IGN said there are 3 same-sex S supports for both genders yet mention Rhea and Sothis can be S-supported in the same sentence. Bit confused. Maybe S support for those two is platonic or something. Like the Owain Lucina one in Awakening that's listed as "companions"

Yep. Only 3 for both.

  Reveal hidden contents

FETH_SupportChart.png?width=1600

Same sex are highlighted in purple. Rhea and Sothis don't seem to be considered as normal S-supports for both genders. Might be something like the paired endings in the GBA era. Thank god you can't lewd the dragon loli

Well now it seems like the f/f options have the opposite problem to the m/m options, no old options at all lol

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I do think it may be a bit presumptuous to assume the Sothis and Rhea supports aren't romantic because of a spreadsheet posted by IGN (also feel the same about the notion that this represents all playable characters, since we know for a fact that they are not allowed to talk about anything post-timeskip), but I do have to wonder about their relations to Byleth given their involvement with him.  I mean, there's the obvious fact that Sothis is mostly only an entity Byleth can see and has had dreams about for a long time, but then there's also the fact that Rhea seemed rather willing to just bring Byleth into the fold as an instructor for highly prestigious military students despite probably having no actual experience as an instructor, especially when she's known for passing harsh judgment.

So while I think there's still not enough information to definitively say their S-supports aren't romantic, I wouldn't be horribly surprised if they weren't.

Also, okay, I can understand Sothis being Bylethsexual, but Rhea?  She has all these trusted aides and people loyal to her, and she only interacts with Byleth?  At least she and Sothis are the only ones, but still.  I am very glad to see that Hanneman gets an A-support with Manuela, though; I can't wait to see which ways Manuela will inadvertently drive Hanneman up the wall, lmao.

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5 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

I do think it may be a bit presumptuous to assume the Sothis and Rhea supports aren't romantic because of a spreadsheet posted by IGN (also feel the same about the notion that this represents all playable characters, since we know for a fact that they are not allowed to talk about anything post-timeskip), but I do have to wonder about their relations to Byleth given their involvement with him.  I mean, there's the obvious fact that Sothis is mostly only an entity Byleth can see and has had dreams about for a long time, but then there's also the fact that Rhea seemed rather willing to just bring Byleth into the fold as an instructor for highly prestigious military students despite probably having no actual experience as an instructor, especially when she's known for passing harsh judgment.

So while I think there's still not enough information to definitively say their S-supports aren't romantic, I wouldn't be horribly surprised if they weren't.

Also, okay, I can understand Sothis being Bylethsexual, but Rhea?  She has all these trusted aides and people loyal to her, and she only interacts with Byleth?  At least she and Sothis are the only ones, but still.  I am very glad to see that Hanneman gets an A-support with Manuela, though; I can't wait to see which ways Manuela will inadvertently drive Hanneman up the wall, lmao.

Oh certainly, IGN has shown that their data is unreliable at times, especially since they completely leave Dimitri and Claude off a second list that shows which characters each gendered Byleth can romance on the same page as this.

I think that if they are romanceable, then nothing really changes from waht we've previously thought.

However, if they aren't romanceable despite their S supports, then I have a couple thoughts. First is that f/f options will lack some of the diversity they had before because they'll lose their only non-student romances (presuming Sothis does become an adult). Second is that the issue with age and diversity in the m/m options will also still stand. Third is that the difference in how important the romanceable characters are will change, however it still will exist because Edelgard will be an option. Though it would be far less prominent compared to if all the major female characters were f/f options

Spoiler

And assuming that the rumor that Nemesis joins us is true, I wonder if M!Byleth can S support him but not have it be romantic

Also this could possibly be what the reviewer meant when she said the Thani leaks were more or less right.

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So I made an account just so I could chime in on the topic here.

Honestly, I feel like the options we were given for M/M are quite original when compared to what I've seen from other games so far. Even though Linhardt fits the stereotypical feminine gay option that a lot of games have, I think choosing Alois and Gilbert to be the other 2 options is quite strange, I can't help but feel like this choice was deliberate on the part of IS, I think they have a story to tell here with both of these characters and I'm very curious to see how these options come about and whether they work or not. The reasons I say that is that there is no way they looked at the age disparity between Byleth and them and thought that it made sense to choose them as options unless they have something in mind.

I do have a bit of bias here seeing as I think Alois is very handsome and will be who I romance my first go around. I still feel like there's something pleasantly new about some of the options we're being given.

 

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