FE16 Same-Sex Relationship Discussion

[0 Def Cleric]

Aren't all the women in the game ridiculously attractive, though? There's no one you could pair f!Byleth up with that wouldn't seem like it was pandering to men. If anything, I've noticed a lot of men who don't actually like Edelgard and Dorothea's designs, notwithstanding posttimeskip!Sothis and Rhea, that makes one character who's excessively popular among men for the wlw options (Mercedes). I get the feeling that it's pandering, but people do realize that a lot of yuri fans are actually women, yes? Sometimes (depending on year/number of published works) the majority? The men are probably just "Intsys Tried And Failed" rather than actively not being pandering while the girls are.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Older women are a rarity. To this day, we only have Niime as a playable FE old woman. The only "mature" women are: Midia (?), Mathilda(?), Brigid(?), Eyvel, Selphina, Echidna, Igrene(?), Cecilia(?), Isadora, Louise, Titania, Calill, Nagi, Emmeryn(?), Flavia, Reina, Orochi.

 

And going into other JRPG series, I haven't played that many Tales, only Phantasia, Symphonia, Abyss, Vesperia, Graces, and Xillia, but none of these have older women playable sans Raine. Playable older males on the other hand exist in Kratos, Regal, Jade, Raven, Malik, Rowen, and maybe you can count Alvin.

Final Fantasy, from 1-8 and 10 (everything I've played, and FFTA/2), has maybe 3 older women in the temporary FFII pirate lady, Rosa, and Lulu. Strago, Shadow, Galuf, IV Cid, VII Cid, Cyan, Barret, Yang, Auron, Tellah, and FuSoYa, all are older men however.

Dragon Quest I can't name a single mature playable woman for (having played 4, 5, 7, and 8). And yet, Ragnar McRyan, Torneko Taloon, Borya, Sancho, Sir Mervyn, Yangus, and Morrie Mozzarella are all playable mature/old men.

Looking at class artwork in Etrian Odyssey, and dividing them into four groups for each gender, I count:

• Shota/Soft & Pretty Boy- 17
• Manly/Unfeminine Young Man- 40
• Man- 22
• Old Man- 10
• Loli- 20
• Young Woman- 56
• Woman- 13
• Old Woman- 1

For the EO breakdown with classes listed (note, some instances are debatable):

Spoiler

• Shota/Soft and Pretty Boy- 1 Landsknecht IV, 1 Troubadour, 1 Medic IV, 1 Gunner, 1 Sovereign, 2 Farmers, 1 Nightseeker, 1 Arcanist, 1 Harbinger, 2 Shamans, 2 Botanists, 1 Rover, 1 Hero, 1 Vampire.
• Manly/Unfeminine Young Man- 2 Alchemist, 2 Dark Hunter, 1 Landsknecht, 1 Landsknecht IV, 1 Survivalist, 1 Medic, 1 Ronin, 1 Protector, 1 Sovereign, 1 Gladiator, 1 Buccaneer, 1 Ninja, 1 Monk, 2 Zodiac, 1 Wildling, 1 Arbalist, 1 Shogun, 1 Highlander, 2 Fortresses, 1 Sniper, 1 Runemaster, 2 Dancer, 1 Arcanist, 1 Bushi, 2 Fencer, 1 Dragoon, 1 Pugilist, 1 Harbinger, 2 Warlocks, 2 Masurao, 1 Rover, 1 Hero
• Man- 1 Landsknecht, 1 Survivalist , 1 Medic, 1 Medic IV, 1 Protector, 1 Gunner, 1 War Magus, 1 Gladiator, 2 Hoplite, 1 Buccaneer, 1 Ninja, 1 Wildling, 1 Arbalist, 1 Nightseeker, 1 Sniper, 2 Imperials, 1 Pugilist, 2 Necromancers
• Old Man- 1 Troubadour, 1 Ronin, 2 Hexer, 1 War Magus, 1 Monk, 1 Shogun, 1 Runemaster, 1 Bushi, 1 Dragoon
• Loli- 1 Troubadour, 1 Medic, 2 Medic IV, 1 Hexer, 1 Buccaneer, 2 Zodiac, 1 Wildling, 2 Farmers, 2 Yggdroids, 1 Nightseeker, 1 Dancer, 1 Necromancer, 1 Shaman, 1 Botanist, 1 Hero, 1 Vampire 
• Young Woman- 1 Dark Hunter, 2 Landsknecht, 2 Landsknecht IV, 2 Survivalist, 1 Troubadour, 2 Ronin, 1Hexer (very androgynous), 2 Protectors, 2 Gunners, 2 Sovereign, 2 Gladiator, 1 Hoplite, 2 Ninjas, 2 Monks, 2 Arbalists, 2 Shoguns, 1 Highlander, 1 Nightseeker, 2 Fortresses, 2 Snipers, 2 Runemasters, 1 Dancer, 2 Arcanists, 2 Imperials, 2 Fencers, 1 Dragoon, 2 Pugilists, 2 Harbingers, 2 Warlocks, 1 Necromancer, 2 Masurao, 1 Shaman, 1 Rover, 1 Hero
• Woman- 2 Alchemists, 1 Dark Hunter, 1 Medic, 2 War Magus, 1 Hoplite, 1 Buccaneer, 1 Wildling, 2 Bushi, 1 Dragoon, 1 Botanist
• Old Woman- 1 Rover

Does not count the Beasts, nor the two Yggdroids that don't look human at all.

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[iavasechui]

Red is the same age as Yangus and she is playable in the 8 remake as well as morrie 

[OldJuror]

Heck of a question to ask considering the fire, but do we have any more information or scenes from those supports? The only information we seem to have so far seem to be from the Male Black Eagles route for the main part, but not the other supports from when you join other houses. The one theory I've had is that supports that aren't your house or belong to the church have a limit to them(to prevent S ranking, then killing your support in the time skip). If we have been getting just the response from those playing the black eagles, and no screen shots from those who do the other two, there is the possibility that there are other options.

After all, wasn't there mention of there being 7 options for each? The choices so far seem pretty heavy on the black eagle's side too.

[firewitch912]

6 minutes ago, OldJuror said:

Heck of a question to ask considering the fire, but do we have any more information or scenes from those supports? The only information we seem to have so far seem to be from the Male Black Eagles route for the main part, but not the other supports from when you join other houses. The one theory I've had is that supports that aren't your house or belong to the church have a limit to them(to prevent S ranking, then killing your support in the time skip). If we have been getting just the response from those playing the black eagles, and no screen shots from those who do the other two, there is the possibility that there are other options.

After all, wasn't there mention of there being 7 options for each? The choices so far seem pretty heavy on the black eagle's side too.

While everyone so far seems to be playing black eagles, the person who revealed the three known m/m options showed them using the extras menu, which supposedly shows everything. She also confirmed that Dimitri and Claude were S supportable by F!Byleth, so I think her information is fairly accurate. And according to the e3 demo, romance (and therefore S supports) are only available post timeskip.

I'm really curious, where did you hear about these 7 options for each?

[OldJuror]

I remember it being mentioned in another thread that it was a leak as well from a different source. Though, I thought any information involving stuff from past the timeskip is embargoed still? I'm sure the extra menu has such options, but it seems odd that it would cover everything, especially considering we got only a couple of screenshots rather than the full list, or even trying a few side playthroughs to see differences. Just feels a little odd considering how big a deal it seems to cause and how little we have. Heck, not even sure if Rhea will stick around. Always saw her as betraying everyone, so why would she be marriageable.

Another reason I am asking is because we sort of had some end game supports in other fire emblems that ended without marriage. Leon and Valbar's for instance ended with Valbar saying no and Leon respecting that, and I do recall there were some relations in Sealing Stones where there is a Father and Son final support rank. I know S ranks can mean romance, but it might not mean that all the time. Since we haven't got screens of the S supports, just seems like it could be bait that we are biting.

[firewitch912]

7 minutes ago, OldJuror said:

I remember it being mentioned in another thread that it was a leak as well from a different source. Though, I thought any information involving stuff from past the timeskip is embargoed still? I'm sure the extra menu has such options, but it seems odd that it would cover everything, especially considering we got only a couple of screenshots rather than the full list, or even trying a few side playthroughs to see differences. Just feels a little odd considering how big a deal it seems to cause and how little we have. Heck, not even sure if Rhea will stick around. Always saw her as betraying everyone, so why would she be marriageable.

Another reason I am asking is because we sort of had some end game supports in other fire emblems that ended without marriage. Leon and Valbar's for instance ended with Valbar saying no and Leon respecting that, and I do recall there were some relations in Sealing Stones where there is a Father and Son final support rank. I know S ranks can mean romance, but it might not mean that all the time. Since we haven't got screens of the S supports, just seems like it could be bait that we are biting.

Without evidence or a previously reliable source (like Thani has so far proven to be), I would take any leaks with a heavy grain of salt. The embargo goes until chapter 10 and romance is only available post timeskip, however Byleth's S supports have been viewable from the beginning, as we've seen in numerous videos. The screenshots were to show explicitly the m/m options as well as Claude not being one of them. We have relatively little to go on, but so far no one has been able to disprove her either. Maybe something happens post embargo, but I think she would have mentioned being unable to say something due to spoilers like she did about the f/f options.

It's important to note that Sealing Stones and Leon and Valbar were all A supports. S supports have so far followed the trends that we got for Fates and Awakening, where Byleth can have an S support with practically any character of the opposite gender, while the same gender options are minimal or nonexistent. If S support could be platonic, I think we would see a lot more same gender options. There's also the fact that people have specifically referred to S support as romance so far. If they did change S supports, I think Intsys would have stated something by this point, because otherwise they would disappoint a whole lot more than just the queer community.

If S supports could be platonic, that would be interesting, however it seems like poor taste if they had our already seemingly limited pool of same sex options reduced even further by making them "just friends."

[OldJuror]

Thats actually something I wondered with Thanibomb. While their predictions for the most part are true, from some that I've seen, they also look vague or safe bets. Canto for Horses and Rescue makes sense. They have been done before, and it's more an exception than the rule for those things. The weapon Triangle IS still there, but also not quite there. Likewise, some of their character stuff is simple. Yes, Thanibomb has been correct, but some of their answers are vague enough that even if wrong they are still technically correct(Leonie is considered the one true commoner, but Raphael is one as well, even if he is a merchant.).

That is what got me on guard. Their response was one named male gay character, but the others were vague. The numbered amount was also vague, only saying 'less than the females' which matches up with Fates. You then add in journalists who are rushing through this, not really going in depth, and are also stuck with embargoes that could limit people denying it. If someone says Rhea is a lover, but she dies or turns, then no one could rebuke that because of spoilers and breaking the embargo. At the core, this is reporting on new and exciting information. So long as its out first, they get the victory, and in many cases if they are wrong, people will forget easily enough. Have to admit though, this certainly brought them a lot of attention.

[zuibangde]

1 hour ago, firewitch912 said:

Maybe something happens post embargo, but I think she would have mentioned being unable to say something due to spoilers like she did about the f/f options.

If there are actually any mlm options post skip I doubt she can mention ‘I can’t mention it’ because saying that breaks the embargo by suggesting something post skip.

Anyways, I actually find the leaker’s approach to naming all the lgbt options a bit strange. She mentioned all 5 wlw options but only mentioned 1 mlm option initially. She indirectly suggested Alois as an option during his character reveal but then apparently back tracked and said she was just joking (this is just a claim from other people that apparently messaged her about it so I’m not sure how reliable it is). There was just so much uncertainty towards the mlm options from the beginning compared to the wlw options which I find strange.

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by zuibangde

[Disclaimer]

36 minutes ago, zuibangde said:

There was just so much uncertainty towards the mlm options from the beginning compared to the wlw options which I find strange.

Unfortunately, it just shows us that they were an afterthought in development, compared to the earlier implementation of 5 w/w S-supports.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Disclaimer

[FrostyFireMage]

Maybe if enough people voice their displeasure with the mxm S-supports they'll add more as DLC

I swear they deliberately chose the least appealing options available

[ayahitaisyou]

8 hours ago, Florete said:

• For as long as S rank has existed in FE, it's been romance (marriage, even, but it might not be marriage here).
• We've seen in this game that S ranks exist for all opposite sex characters and only a few same sex characters.
• We were told during E3 that players could romance a character post time skip.

Seems extraordinarily likely that S rank is romance. Alois' wife is probably dead.

Yes, but I can also see possibility for S supports becoming the support that have pair ending in FE3H. And pair ending is not necessarily being romantic in FE7, FE8, and FE10 (some kind of pair ending). In another word, I don't think S support need to be romance exclusive.

 

7 hours ago, firewitch912 said:

I think their point is that it's strange that people find dating your students questionable, when they're the same age and you only date them after you finish teaching, but most of the gay options are men who have much more of that age difference dynamic, since they're easily twice you're age. Gilbert having a kid who we assume is Annette means that he's literally dating someone his daughter's age. And the problem with Alois is that he has a wife, less so about his kid. I'm personally interested in how they show that Alois is no longer married could be really good or it could be really terrible.

Edit @ayahitaisyou: I think S rank not necessarily being romantic would be even worse honestly. Because not only would there still be this limited number of same sex relationships, but also you'd essentially remove the romance of some of them. Meanwhile the straight options would be plenty.

 

Yes, same-sex relationships will be more limited numbers in my assumption. But for a company who is not famous for being progressive on gender issues, it is more concrete to assume that they will choose non-romantic pair ending rather than choose two once-married men for same-sex romance options. For example, I can totally see the case that only Linhardt and Mercedes are same-sex romance ending, and the others are all story-based pair ending. I am not claim my assumption is better, as you can see the straight options are out numbered the same-sex options, but I think it's more reasonable.

By the way, I don't think that having non-romantic pair ending is to remove the romance of some of them, it depends. I don't see every FE need to have full availability on marriage like Fate. So having friendship pair ending whether same-sex or not wouldn't be a problem to me. Yes, no same-sex romance is a problem, but I won't say all same-sex friendship pair ending should be romantic. Lyn and Florina, Raven and Lucius, Marcus and Merlinus, Eirika and Tana, Ike and Soren, maybe some of above are fit to romance, but they also have reasonable story based on friendship. I just won't see them should be romantic. 

[Michelaar]

Not liking options is fine, but I have seen people in this very topic and on Twitter either call them abusive or imply that they very well could be. That's just messed up, and very rude.

[Florete]

7 minutes ago, ayahitaisyou said:

Yes, but I can also see possibility for S supports becoming the support that have pair ending in FE3H. And pair ending is not necessarily being romantic in FE7, FE8, and FE10 (some kind of pair ending). In another word, I don't think S support need to be romance exclusive.

Sure, anything can happen, but I highly doubt this. There's an expectation among current players that S rank = romance, and players won't be happy if their choice lands them in a merely platonic relationship. Paired endings in pre-Awakening titles were A ranks; there were different rules and expectations for that. We've never seen an S rank be platonic, and we really shouldn't expect that any will be.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, Florete said:

We've never seen an S rank be platonic, and we really shouldn't expect that any will be.

Don't some of MaKana's end in friendzoning? -But this is a little kid, so I know if so, it's a minor exception not to be expected for others.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[NegativeExponents-]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Don't some of MaKana's end in friendzoning? -But this is a little kid, so I know if so, it's a minor exception not to be expected for others.

It applies to other kids too like I think Midori and maybe Percy but that was only in the localization tho. The original ones still end in romance.

Edited July 15, 2019 by NegativeExponents-

[Cat Villager]

I won't say anything new and I usually don't comment much on dating sim parts but the situation with quantity AND quality of m-m options compared to f-f ones is ridiculous. I'm almost completely sure they are afraid to make any important male character confirmed bisexual because they are afraid of backlash from certain parts of male playerbase. Probably some crossover with people who are vocally disgusted by males on summer banners in FEH. And while I understand Alois (if he isn't lying about having a family then it's going to be Valbar situation), Gilbert is completely out of left field. The third option shoud have been someone from Blue Lions or Golden Deers.

I would recommend to sent feedback to Nintendo if you are dissatisfied. While I doubt they will add more options in 3H (even if they will be doing updates for 9 months) it might give them better ideas for future games.

Also wonder if it was 5 ff and 3 mm from the start or they dummied out some options how they did with several convos of questionable quality in Warriors.

[firewitch912]

2 minutes ago, Cat Villager said:

I won't say anything new and I usually don't comment much on dating sim parts but the situation with quantity AND quality of m-m options compared to f-f ones is ridiculous. I'm almost completely sure they are afraid to make any important male character confirmed bisexual because they are afraid of backlash from certain parts of male playerbase. Probably some crossover with people who are vocally disgusted by males on summer banners in FEH. And while I understand Alois (if he isn't lying about having a family then it's going to be Valbar situation), Gilbert is completely out of left field. The third option shoud have been someone from Blue Lions or Golden Deers.

I would recommend to sent feedback to Nintendo if you are dissatisfied. While I doubt they will add more options in 3H (even if they will be doing updates for 9 months) it might give them better ideas for future games.

Also wonder if it was 5 ff and 3 mm from the start or they dummied out some options how they did with several convos of questionable quality in Warriors.

While I say that we should send feedback, we should also maybe wait until the game is officially out so that we have all the facts.

Also, Thani (which isn't the most reliable but still one of the best sources we have) already knew about all 5 f/f options, but only 1 m/m at that time, so it seems questionable that they were all planned from the start.

[Jingle Jangle]

I don't buy that Claude was gay from the beginning it feels that people are their own jumping to conclusions based on nothing but stereotypes of gays. Only recently it has been discovered that he is not as friendly/honest as he appears.

The Reddit leaker and the previewer saying that there are many gay supports and that the game is full of "bisexual energy" whatever that means does not help matters. It more feels like creating unrealistic expectations for the fanbase.

Demanding for who are the gay supports feel entitled for me. The game is first and foremost a turn-based strategy game. The whole dating thing aspect just shows that IS can't please everyone. But still, the devs been more aware of the overlap in supports ages.

As for S rank supports, or some equivalent to them. Shipping has been part of the franchise from the beginning and as far as I can tell. People are extrapolating pre-time skip information and trying to apply it across the board like a fact when there are many known unknowns still out there. We still don't know if the list of fByleth is actually true or varies from route to route. We still don't have the complete support list. Or if Sothis actually has an adult form. It already seems at least that everyone within a house shares C through A ranks within it, and we still have the unknown arrow marker Edelgard shares with Linhardt that remains unexplained.

Edited July 15, 2019 by Jingle Jangle

[firewitch912]

13 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I don't buy that Claude was gay from the beginning it feels that people are their own jumping to conclusions based on nothing but stereotypes of gays. Only recently it has been discovered that he is not as friendly/honest as he appears.

The Reddit leaker and the previewer saying that there are many gay supports and that the game is full of "bisexual energy" whatever that means does not help matters. It more feels like creating unrealistic expectations for the fanbase.

Demanding for who are the gay supports feel entitled for me. The game is first and foremost a turn-based strategy game. The whole dating thing aspect just shows that IS can't please everyone. But still, the devs been more aware of the overlap in supports ages.

As for S rank supports, or some equivalent to them. Shipping has been part of the franchise from the beginning and as far as I can tell. People are extrapolating pre-time skip information and trying to apply it across the board like a fact when there are many known unknowns still out there. We still don't know if the list of fByleth is actually true or varies from route to route. We still don't have the complete support list. Or if Sothis actually has an adult form. It already seems at least that everyone within a house shares C through A ranks within it, and we still have the unknown arrow marker Edelgard shares with Linhardt that remains unexplained.

I mean this is a game made by straight people, we should expect some stereotypes, especially given the portrayals they've had so far. Honestly even the not friendly/honest thing is a negative bi stereotype, and we've figured that

If the reddit leaker is Thani, they're info has so far been reliable, but they also never noted m/m options beyond Linhardt and Alois. The reviewer who posted about bisexual energy clearly made a clickbait article, but those screenshots of Claude and 

I think it's entitled that people keep coming into this thread saying that we shouldn't care because the romance isn't a major aspect. It's not entitled to ask for more and varied representation. There also isn't a demand for specific characters, just disappointment that expected characters aren't m/m options. Our demand is for more varied m/m options and for ones which are more plot relevant, like every other person has the option for. It just happens to be that the two characters who actually fit both criteria are Claude and Dimitri. We've even stated that we would be okay with just having more variety, giving us some of the other students.

The arrow markers mean that you have multiple support conversations before reaching that Support level. While we don't have evidence about the f/f supports, they come from at least one reliable reviewer and source. I find it odd that only some of Byleth's S supports would be hidden post timeskip, given that all of the S supports wouldn't be available until post timeskip. It's possible, just seems unlikely.

[Edrey]

My two cents after being late to the late party: 

-Maybe the reviewer that made the article revolving about Claude didn't know a lot about of Fire Emblem and was unaware of the confusion his article might have caused; perhaps when he was talking about romance and bonding, he was referring more to being able to flirt with anyone like in the Japanese version of Fates(you could pet anyone's face) instead of actually marrying them by getting the S-rank. 

-While none of the options are my cup of tea, I appreciate the effort IS is putting on this, and maybe my opinion about them will change after I play the game and get to know them better.

-I'll keep my expectations low on getting more than 8 LGBT characters, which is quite the jump forward already. 

-If Claude would have been Bi, then we would have the LGBT archer archetype XD.

[firewitch912]

34 minutes ago, Edrey said:

My two cents after being late to the late party: 

-Maybe the reviewer that made the article revolving about Claude didn't know a lot about of Fire Emblem and was unaware of the confusion his article might have caused; perhaps when he was talking about romance and bonding, he was referring more to being able to flirt with anyone like in the Japanese version of Fates(you could pet anyone's face) instead of actually marrying them by getting the S-rank. 

-While none of the options are my cup of tea, I appreciate the effort IS is putting on this, and maybe my opinion about them will change after I play the game and get to know them better.

-I'll keep my expectations low on getting more than 8 LGBT characters, which is quite the jump forward already. 

-If Claude would have been Bi, then we would have the LGBT archer archetype XD.

-I'd love to give the reviewer the benefit of the doubt, but he does explicitly compare three houses to fates, so it's safe to say he either played that game or did some research. I will say that his article never says anything about being to marry anyone, he only talks about his ability to flirt with anyone in the cast regardless of gender. This is an interesting claim that we really haven't talked about and I'm interested to see how true it turns out to be.

-I also appreciate the effort they're putting in, but criticism is what allows them to improve even more

-So will I, but I'm still curious to hear more about that 7 options each. It is unusual for a game like this to have an uneven number. The closest I can think of is Mass Effect, but that simply didn't have any m/m options until 3

[FrostyFireMage]

It's easy to take romantic supports for granted when pretty much everyone who isn't a homosexual male is spoiled for choice 

[Vanil]

The idea of 7 options each though does personally make the most sense to me. It could have been something along the lines of:

BE: Edelgard, Dorothea, Linhardt (2F/1M)

BL: Dimitri, Mercedes, A non important male (3F/3M)

GD: Claude, a non important male & female (4F/5M)

Non students: Rhea, Sothis, Non student female (7F/5M)

Non students: Alois and Gilbert (7F/7M)

 

[Flere210]

1 hour ago, firewitch912 said:

I think it's entitled that people keep coming into this thread saying that we shouldn't care because the romance isn't a major aspect. It's not entitled to ask for more and varied representation. There also isn't a demand for specific characters, just disappointment that expected characters aren't m/m options. Our demand is for more varied m/m options and for ones which are more plot relevant, like every other person has the option for. It just happens to be that the two characters who actually fit both criteria are Claude and Dimitri. We've even stated that we would be okay with just having more variety, giving us some of the other students.

The entitlment is in the difference between giving an author criticism and suggestions, and demand ANYTHING like you own Nintendo. It may seems strange, but i have no problem with boycotting or threatening a boycott while stating clearly to the authors why they are boycotting. But i have a problem with this kind of complains even if the people doing them are going to buy the game.

Why? Because in the former case you are not acting like the author own you anything. You just have some personal rules and follow them. I am not joining #bringbackthenationaldex, but i am not buying sword and shield either, because for me the dex is a dealbreacker.

My problem is not refusing to buy the game, or give criticism and suggestions, it's the wave of anger and vitriol, like nintendo personally wronged people by not giving them certain options.

I may like having an asexual character that can't be romanced at all(and i am massively annoyed by the fact that i can't have purely platonic relationships with half the cast), but i also don't think i am entitled to throw a tantrum every time there isn't one in an rpg, or because you need a paid DLC to know that Lukas is asexual(even if it's a decision that i find stupid). Admittely, i can just play an asexual by ignoring romances, wich is a luxury gay people don't have.

Also, the importance argument seems just a variation of "we want Claude", because outside of the 2 house leaders all the important male characters are Jeralt or villains( i am not considering the retainers important), and i doubt many people want to romance him. Also, i don't really like Edelgard being an option because imo royals have an obligation to have heirs, and adopting one would weaken her position in the Adrestian court. While i don't think some s rank will magically appear later in the game, i think is possible that some unknown characters may join later(and be the 2 missing romances), but is mostly wishful thinking because i don't like the modern FE tendency to not have lategame characters.