Jump to content

So who's the TRUE antagonist? Game Theory time.


Recommended Posts

I'm sorry this is so messy, I typed it in a hurry. Let me know if I missed anything.
 
According to Claude in one of the japanese commercial trailers the church is hiding something, Seteth refers to (possibly the protagonist) as having "dangerous blood" (more likely than not a reference to Nemesis), and the adoptive father of Ashe, Lord Lonato, is leading a rebellion against the church. You'd think this would be a no brainer right? A church in a JRPG? Of course it's secretly evil right? That's what I thought, but then I started taking a closer look at things and the conflict seems a lot more complex than I thought it was at first.
 
The Flame Emperor, the man who orchestrated the bandit attack on our three MCs at the beginning of the game, is also working against the Church of Seiros. We don't know the true goals of him OR his Death Knight subordinate who reportedly kidnaps people at night, but we do know that they aren't friendly to the Church of Seiros either. Now if the "good" and "bad" sides of this were unambiguously so then why would the strict but loving adoptive father of Ashe decide to rebel against the same target that our resident homicidal asswagons have in mind? There's no doubt that Lonato has a decent motivation for doing so since an out of nowhere heel turn makes no sense, but if that's the case and the church has done something to warrant people rebelling against them than why are Red Mask and Skeletor doing the same? Only time will tell I guess.
 
Then we have "Those that slither in the dark" or the "Nightcrawlers" or whatever. What's THEIR deal? Are they working with the Church of Seiros, that's highly doubtful. They look like your typical Fire Emblem dark mage schemers complete with dark clothing and abnormal physical appearances. It's more likely that they're trying to resurrect Nemesis given what we've seen in the japanese commercial trailers of him busting through a wall and pulling apart some chains and I highly doubt they'd resurrect the man that once did battle with Seiros if they were working with the church, but at the same time we also see Byleth doing battle with him out of context with what appears to be an energy arrow shot by Claude in his arm. I doubt Nemesis is pure evil though given his wide eyed shock at Seiros referencing "The Red Canyon", could this be a look of remorse in his eyes? We ALSO see Rhea falling in slow motion in what appears to be the world's best Emmeryn impression, I don't know about you but that looks like a death to me and a dramatic death like that wouldn't be given to a villain now would it?
 
All of this information and what little context I have to piece it all together leads me to believe that:
  1. The "true" antagonists will be determined by whose house you choose in some way (obviously).
  2. The villains of this game may have more focus placed on their motivations, since the conflict is seemingly more complex this time around.
  3. I don't have a third thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IMO, Seteth has a villain flag the size of the monastery floating around his head. I mean, he's named after Sutekh from the Egyptian pantheon, for Pete's sake! He's a representation of the desert, while Sothis's being named after Sopdet (the goddess of Sirius, i.e. the star that signifies when the Nile is at its highest and most life-giving) puts her in clear contrast to him.

I don't know if he's the MAIN villain, but he's definitely going to be one of them. Especially considering you can't build support points with him, I think. I would imagine he's a Michalis-type villain, working with the main antagonist to undermine the Goddess in some way. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Sothis was the real villain all along.

I see this being the case; with Nemesis killing Sothis because he knew what she was like forcing Seiros to retaliate against him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe Byleth is the true villain here, having a name based on king of hell is quite rare. Sothis' very first line was that she never saw his kind before, which is really strange since she clearly know what humans are. (It's even more weird if Nemesis was related to Byleth, she should know her own champion right?)

Plus a few reviewers point out that there are many mystery surrounding Byleth, than even himself doesn't understand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nemesis is so flagged as not villain, it's funny.

If Byleth can be the antagonist or is a demon... I just might end up renaming him or her Lucifer or Helel for shit and giggles.
If he use the power of friendship or whatever, I won't soil those holy/unholy names.
...Byleth might actually be the perfect name for them.

Honestly those Nightcrawlers ? They looks like you usual set of anime edgy villains that come out of nowhere. Not a very good thing when you seem to already have a good conflict going on in the first place. Coff coff Fates. I hope they won't go with that, because it's painful to even look at them.

Now time for funs. Hope it'll be Seiros, Sothis, you know, the good stuff !
Also did anyone else noticed that at one point, someone step on the mask of the Flame Emperor ? Just saying that either the Flame Emperor is killed, or he'll end up desmasking himself in plain sight kinf of like our lord and savior the Burger Knight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Nemesis is so flagged as not villain, it's funny.

If Byleth can be the antagonist or is a demon... I just might end up renaming him or her Lucifer or Helel for shit and giggles.
If he use the power of friendship or whatever, I won't soil those holy/unholy names.
...Byleth might actually be the perfect name for them.

Honestly those Nightcrawlers ? They looks like you usual set of anime edgy villains that come out of nowhere. Not a very good thing when you seem to already have a good conflict going on in the first place. Coff coff Fates. I hope they won't go with that, because it's painful to even look at them.

Now time for funs. Hope it'll be Seiros, Sothis, you know, the good stuff !
Also did anyone else noticed that at one point, someone step on the mask of the Flame Emperor ? Just saying that either the Flame Emperor is killed, or he'll end up desmasking himself in plain sight kinf of like our lord and savior the Burger Knight.

Oh Nemesis will be a enemy it’s shown in the second japanese CM.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Alexios Blake said:

Oh Nemesis will be a enemy it’s shown in the second japanese CM.

Not really ? It's up in the air really.

He is seen coming out from a coffin, his arms to be exact, that probably means that he'll be used as a zombie antagonist, against his will, or not. A villain though ?

Remember guys, there's a difference between a villain and an antagonist.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Not really ? It's up in the air really.

He is seen coming out from a coffin, his arms to be exact, that probably means that he'll be used as a zombie antagonist, against his will, or not. A villain though ?

Remember guys, there's a difference between a villain and an antagonist.

Stop at 0:25 Byleth fights against Nemesis and while he is wounded he doesn’t look like a typical Zombie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Again, difference between villain and antagonist. You're gonna fight him, sure, but it's unlikely he's behind everything, which is, you know, what villains are.

You understood me a bit. What I originally meant was that Nemesis will be a enemy maybe even a major enemy but only a enemy. Not an antagonist or a mastermind, what you’re calling a villain by the way masterminds are those that are behind everything not a villain and yes a mastermind is generally also a villain but a villain isn’t necessarily a mastermind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah. Well, that's entirely understandable, your phrasing was just a bit strange to me. And I think of "villain" as "has a significant influence on the main plot of the game" which naturally means "is responsible for some bad events." Thus, behind some bad events. For example, I think that the Nightcrawlers as a whole will be villainous, but for example Kronya won't be a villain- she'll just be an enemy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...A villain is by definition, simply a bad guy you know ? 😛 
Antagonist(s), a guy who is against the protagonist(s), the alignment never matter. Mastermind, a character that planned all according to keikaku as sasuga Ainz-sama, no matter of the alignment, though it's most of the time evil.

He doesn't even look like a zombie unlike his 'come out of the coffin' moment... eh I dunno man, he still look pretty zombish... but for all we know it could be a battle at the center of the mind BS,  him pulling a Nobunaga 'ya I'm fighting you for giggles. Wat, joining them cuz them made me come back ? Lul no that dumb', or 'take ma sword-whip son'. Or I could be wrong and he got some skin care, that too. 😛 
Or not, who knows.

Edited by B.Leu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I doubt Nemesis is the true mastermind. He was getting freed or resurrected in one of the scenes, so there has to be someone else pulling the strings. Seiros clearly hates him for what happened in the Red Canyon(he is probably responsible for the death of her family I presume), but is that the truth? For all we know his actions in the Red Canyon may have been justified. For example, Seiros's family unbeknownst to her may have been truly evil. He is also known as the Liberation King. That's not a title a bad guy usually has. 

The flame emperor and the death knight are probably people we know. Them wearing masks is a dead giveaway. I doubt they will be the ultimate antagonists though. Maybe mid-game bosses or something.

The nightcrawlers may be the true masterminds behind all of it, and they certainly look evil(and edgy). We don't know much yet though. Their goal is probably to resurrect Nemesis.

Initially I was thinking that Rhea is the main antagonist, but given the recent trailers and gameplay footage I doubt it. Her falling presumably to her death in a dramatic way I believe is enough to mostly exclude her from the antagonist list.

As for Sothis, I heavily doubt she is capable of being the true antagonist at least from what we know.

Spoiler

From the french preview, it's apparent she inhabits the same body as Byleth and they are connected for some reason. She even mentions if he dies, she dies. From the looks of it, in my opinion she is only an apparition. A non corporeal manifestation of the "will" of his Crest or maybe the will of his blood(if he has some special blood in him to begin with). Whatever the case may be, she doesn't have much authority in her current state. However, they could also go the "Byleth is Sothis' reincarnation/vessel" route, which may make things more troublesome. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Zoderos said:

He is also known as the Liberation King. That's not a title a bad guy usually has.

I agree. Though what surprises me is that he's still called that even after he lost. You'd think he'd have to have won to keep the title, unless the 'liberation' he's famous for came before the conflict with Seiros. Also surprised the church didn't give him a more menacing title when they were writing the history books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zoderos said:

The flame emperor and the death knight are probably people we know. Them wearing masks is a dead giveaway. I doubt they will be the ultimate antagonists though. Maybe mid-game bosses or something.

 

It would make sense. For example, why is Dimitri not in the fight in the Treehouse footage when we are using his house to fight the Death Knight/Flame Emperor?

Edited by IzzyFresh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zoderos said:

 

  Hide contents

From the french preview, it's apparent she inhabits the same body as Byleth and they are connected for some reason. She even mentions if he dies, she dies. From the looks of it, in my opinion she is only an apparition. A non corporeal manifestation of the "will" of his Crest or maybe the will of his blood(if he has some special blood in him to begin with). Whatever the case may be, she doesn't have much authority in her current state. However, they could also go the "Byleth is Sothis' reincarnation/vessel" route, which may make things more troublesome. 

 

She's definitely related to him in some way. She has his crest on the weird ornaments she wears.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

She gets mad when you say you're really a demon, and I believe that's the one choice she doesn't let you take, so that's quite.. interesting to say the least. 

1 hour ago, Timlugia said:

All the reviewer we saw only tried one of "wrong" answer before moving on. I wonder what happen if you pick both wrong answer to annoy her.

I really don't like this 'doesn't let you' part. Is it true ? What kind of stupid design is it, letting you pick three choice... but actually no, you can just pick one to move on ? That's retarded. Oh hey, Persona and SMT does that too... 😛

Back on tracks, it could be simply a joke that she takes poorly instead of her simply saying 'don't joke about that, I've seen some of those'.
Although her saying 'I never seen your kind' is weird.

4 hours ago, Zoderos said:

 I doubt Nemesis is the true mastermind. He was getting freed or resurrected in one of the scenes, so there has to be someone else pulling the strings. Seiros clearly hates him for what happened in the Red Canyon(he is probably responsible for the death of her family I presume), but is that the truth? For all we know his actions in the Red Canyon may have been justified. For example, Seiros's family unbeknownst to her may have been truly evil. He is also known as the Liberation King. That's not a title a bad guy usually has. 

Fire Emblem also have a history of having a army of 'liberation'. Deconstruction of this trope, maybe ?
Having what basically seems to be the Satan of your religion having that kind of title have very interesting implications. From" history remind him as this cool guy", but religion being religion is annoying and think he's a bad guy", to vindicated by history. A lot of fun things we can get from this !

Edited by B.Leu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some of the recent footage released shows that the Western Church in Faergus has taken a turn to the heretical, which has led to conflict with the central church hierarchy at Garrag Mach.  (Ignore spelling issues - sorry).  Think of something like the Protestant Reformation.  

 

I could see Lonato rebelling against the increasingly questionable practices of the western church.  The Western church then calls for aid from the central church, leading to Byleth and co. fighting Sir Lonato.  Unfortunately, you only talk to him after defeating him in battle.  

 

The central church then then learns about the corruption of the Western church and as tensions rise they declare each other heretics, leading to the conflict we see where the Western Church tried to seize a holy site (holy coast) and the Central Church responds in force.  

 

Mad for the ultimate villain, both the flame emperor and the Western Church feel too much like early-mid game antagonists.  The real evil mastermind is probably an evil dragon.  Err I mean this is Fire Emblem...

 

Also my guess would be that Seiros’ mother was a dragon/Mankete.  One of her fangs created the whip sword.  Nemesis (at least to Seiros seems to have) killed Seiros’ mother and took her magic whip sword.  That is why Seiros wanted revenge and addressed the whip sword as “mother”.  

 

Perhaps enough wild speculation/legitimate theory crafting for one post though.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You fight the Western Church in gameplay, though. And allied characters call them heretical. I'd think the whipsword is also probably a dragon's spine, due to its segmentation, rather than a simple fang. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...