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There is a 4th Route


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4 hours ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

but for people who aren't men, it's sometimes nice to see ourselves, ya know? 

Why?

not only are the character rosters always really balanced in FE when it comes to sex it also never hampered my enjoyment when I had to play Lyn, Celica, Eirika or any other female in any other story, game, movie etc.

there is no shortcoming of diverse sexed characters out there, there never was.

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Just now, Lord of Riva said:

Why?

not only are the character rosters always really balanced in FE when it comes to sex it also never hampered my enjoyment when I had to play Lyn, Celica, Eirika or any other female in any other story, game, movie etc.

there is no shortcoming of diverse sexed characters out there, there never was.

Because, generally speaking, women are underrepresented as plot-important characters, and a good deal of the enjoyment of media is gained from empathy towards plot-important characters for many. You half come off as trolling with a reply like that, though. 

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1 hour ago, SoulWeaver said:
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Of course there are gays and other people like them out there, one of my friends claims to be a being of unknown gender and she has a girlfriend, but that's precisely the problem - if enough people are too busy trying to add in token gay/black/insert-other-character-type-here to bother with making the story or gameplay good, eventually it becomes the minority's fault in the minds of the players that those issues exist, and not the devs' fault for trying to please the more varied members of their audience rather than just make something actually good.
In addition, to explain so you understand exactly where I'm coming from on this particular issue, I play fantasy games to get away from the real world, not to see the real world turn the fantasy world into the real world but with magic, and Fire Emblem in particular I play for the tactical aspect of the game - these could be sentient bushes with weaponry and I'd still enjoy the gameplay part of it all. I understand not everyone feels this way, but if I want to see gay and lesbian relationships in a game entirely about people hitting each other with swords, I can just go search 'Fire Emblem' or better yet 'Super Smash Bros' on DeviantArt and get that plus a whole lot more that I also didn't need to see but accepted as a natural consequence of being on DeviantArt in the first place.

True, I was mostly just throwing a random example out there with that. I would still take Re:Elibe over this game no matter how good it ends up being, though.

I think you may have missed what I was saying - announcing you're glad to get decent representation is all well and good, it's the wording thereof that bothers me, because using stronger words like 'Finally' implies that really I should have had whatever I'm talking about forever ago, but I guess I can accept it this late if you grovel and beg a little bit, dev peasants. While obviously that isn't what all individuals making this statement mean, that's what the word 'Finally' in this instance is usually seen to imply, regardless of intent. This could be, though, because my mother and grandfather often stressed to me the importance of choosing one's words carefully while I was growing up, so I like to think I have a slightly more cautious outlook on wordage than most people I converse with on the internet...that is, when I'm not being a hateful racist bigot, according to several of those people. It's actually one of the reasons I like conversations involving the aboveposted Interdimensional Observer, as he's someone who also understands the importance of using words carefully and properly, and usually manages to do so in an enjoyable manner.

Oh, of course, but one problem is that it can be quite difficult to actually get in touch with devs to properly explain one's issues with a game - it's not like we can all just schedule an interview with Sakurai and tell him exactly why Ultimate should have been Melee 2.0, so some of us are rather limited in our methods of response to a game. In addition, buying a game also sends the message that you approve of it enough to spend however much money the store asked for on it, but unless the game has a site with a survey or review system the devs won't hear that you bought it in spite of certain features rather than because of those features, so while not buying a game doesn't get your exact point across, neither does buying it in spite of your issues with it. If anything, not buying the game says more assuming as mentioned just above the game doesn't have any sort of survey/review system, since it's obvious enough was bad that you decided it wasn't worth your money.

 

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The bolded section, just to nitpick for a second here, could have been worded better - taken at face value, this could imply that a female gamer doesn't find Camilla or Peri an insulting way to portray women. Obviously that wasn't what you meant, but I felt like I needed to point that out for future reference. Also you're assuming I'm not just pretending to be male on here, lol.
Actually, I don't play games so that the main character can match me - usually I play games because the concept interests me, like Conception 2, which was awfully handled with a garbage protagonist and fairly trope-y Heroines(Fuuko is still best girl though) but a cool combat system and a uniquely intriguing gimmick so I ended up enjoying it anyways despite its many flaws. I actually specifically went into both Awakening and Fates with a Female Avatar first so I could at least have a pretty character to look at if the plot ended up being boring or predictable, only starting the Male Avatar playthroughs after finishing the games, enjoying the story(or not), and establishing which characters I might like to S-Support on future playthroughs.

Of course not, boycotting a company at all is generally ridiculous because you miss out on opportunities to find things you might like simply because the company did something in the past that happened to bother you to a specific level. If I'd boycotted FE for Niles and Rhajat, I'd have missed out on SoV, which I enjoyed, and if I boycott them because 3H happens to not seem that great to me, I miss out on potentially enjoyable future games, like Re:Elibe when that finally happens. To address the variety bit, I'll refer you to the second half of my first paragraph above.
It's not the problem being remedied that's the issue, it's the fanbase's reaction to it - to restate, that we act like it's outrageous that we didn't get this three or four games ago, when in reality, as I stated in my first post on this thread(a whole page back, so I assume you never saw it, nobody bothers to read the entirety of a thread when responding to one post for obvious reasons), we pretty much did. I consider Awakening to be a game where the female Lord ended up outshining both her father and the Avatar character, both in overall popularity and in plot relevancy. Let's be real here, how important was Chrom really, outside of impregnating his wife with Lucina? You could have played pretty much the entire game after Gangrel's defeat without him being involved at all and the game would have been none the worse. Robin does provide a better argument, as he/she actually does stuff that's important, like deciding to set the ships on fire and ram them into the Valmese fleet, but even then half the Robins out there just further the case by being female and providing the majorly-important/competent female lead that overshadowed the game's male Lord character without Lucina getting involved. Speaking of Awakening, if Emmeryn's backstory had been expounded on at all, it would have covered the challenges of being a female leader of a country thing too, and almost guaranteed done it better than whatever Edelgard's backstory turns out to be, since Emmeryn also had to deal with the issue of hey, my dad just spent years sending most if not all of our able-bodied workforce and citizenry(to say nothing of their positions as beloved fathers and sons) to their deaths, then died himself so you can't just let all your anger out on him. Sadly, it didn't go into this, I actually would have liked more Emmeryn screentime, but Awakening literally handled - if not completely then at least competently considering that wasn't even the game's goal - multiple issues I hear people acting like FE has completely ignored up until 3H.

 

 

If your friend says they are a unknow gender, I think it is more appropriate to not refer them as ”she”. Also, if someone blames the minority for the quality of gameplay or story, maybe it is them need to reconsider their way of thinking, because clearly the players cannot be responsible for the quality of game.

If you play only for the tactical aspect of the game, that's good. If you dislike the non-tactical aspect of the game and don't want to see them in the game, I can also understand. But to be fair, the heterosexual relationship took a far more big part in the FE series than lesbian or gay relationship. Many of the Story of FE games revolves around the romantic relationship between male and female. It is hard for me to understand why you're okay with them, unless I misunderstand you, that you are actually also dislike the heterosexual relationship in the story.

Edited by genagi
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7 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Why?

not only are the character rosters always really balanced in FE when it comes to sex it also never hampered my enjoyment when I had to play Lyn, Celica, Eirika or any other female in any other story, game, movie etc.

there is no shortcoming of diverse sexed characters out there, there never was.

Hoping this isn't going to become a big discussion, but basic representation is important. You being okay with occasionally playing as a girl merely says you are already properly represented most of the time.

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13 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Because, generally speaking, women are underrepresented as plot-important characters, and a good deal of the enjoyment of media is gained from empathy towards plot-important characters for many. You half come off as trolling with a reply like that, though. 

But I am not trolling, I'm just 100% disagreeing with you. Your general statement lacks not only evidence but saying that you cant "empathise" with people from the other sex sounds problematic in itself.

There are two kinds of approaches in the FE series, the self-inserts were always user-defined when it came to sex, any other character is a role you play (it's a role playing game...) and again i do not see any problem with playing a female character (which FE had many of, as much as any other media as well)

Quote

Hoping this isn't going to become a big discussion, but basic representation is important. You being okay with occasionally playing as a girl merely says you are already properly represented most of the time.

Bold statement, you have to explain why "being properly represented" has any effect on how much i can roleplay?

 

EDIT: Just to agree on the statement that this discussion does not have to get too big. I'm no Feminist, their statements are however known to me. If all that is said is repeating what they always say there is literally no merit in discussion this, save your breath and your nerves 🙂

Edited by Lord of Riva
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4 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Your general statement lacks not only evidence but saying that you cant "empathise" with people from the other sex sounds problematic in itself.

I'm not interested in playing as a man because I'm a lesbian, not because I can't empathize with them. Not gonna continue discussing this with you, because you're either trolling or can't see beyond your own nose, and neither of the above leads to healthy discussions about the role of representation in video game characters. 

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9 minutes ago, Florete said:

Hoping this isn't going to become a big discussion, but basic representation is important. You being okay with occasionally playing as a girl merely says you are already properly represented most of the time.

...Or, you know, that you'd rather look at a girl on the screen than a guy. That does factor in for some of us.

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25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

But I am not trolling, I'm just 100% disagreeing with you. Your general statement lacks not only evidence but saying that you cant "empathise" with people from the other sex sounds problematic in itself.

Sigh.

No one said that. But it's a lot easier to identify and empathize with someone who is actually like you. It's a lot easier to see yourself in someone who you feel could actually be you.

26 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Bold statement, you have to explain why "being properly represented" has any effect on how much i can roleplay?

You wouldn't be saying this if the roles were reversed and 90% or more of video game leads were female.

27 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

I'm no Feminist

Congratulations. Neither am I.

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^On it

Anyways I hope the third route pits you against all three House Lords, it'd feel appropriate if it were a middle of the road kind of route. Considering there are decisions that have in-story impact in all the other routes I'm hoping you can pick between going for the best ending (i.e. choosing to spare people and the Lords from all three houses) or a genocide route (killing every other major character).

If the neutral route were the case as thani said, I wonder how they'll give Byleth an army to work with. Will a few of the characters simply choose to side with their teacher? Or will the fighting between the Three Main Lords convince them to defect somehow? Or is it to face a more serious threat? I'm interested to see how they handle this.

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19 minutes ago, Cyan1456 said:

I'm hoping you can pick between going for the best ending (i.e. choosing to spare people and the Lords from all three houses) or a genocide route (killing every other major character)

Undertale Emblem, Dimitri is sans confirmed. I doubt this will be a thing, it's not like Thracia where strategy was involved to spare certain characters. Most likely they refuse to surrender and you're forced to kill them, or some plot contrivance keeps them alive for the true villain.

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On 7/16/2019 at 11:18 AM, Yexin said:

why even spending 60$ only to play a third of a game to begin with? nobody forces you to buy a full priced game you don't have the time to play

but hey, your money, your decisions, i'm not here to tell you what to do

 

I wasn't complaining so I have no idea why you are attacking me. Also, I make a lot of money and $60 is nothing to me. I am old and have limited free time and I rarely finish games to begin with. Maybe you'll realize that's how life is when you're older.

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10 hours ago, bufkus said:

I wasn't complaining so I have no idea why you are attacking me. Also, I make a lot of money and $60 is nothing to me. I am old and have limited free time and I rarely finish games to begin with. Maybe you'll realize that's how life is when you're older.

whoa, slow down, i never meant to attack you nor anything like that

it just seemed quite weird to me that someone would be ok to spend 60$ on a game, but without the intention to complete it

but hey, if 60$ is nothing to you, then good for you

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49 minutes ago, Yexin said:

whoa, slow down, i never meant to attack you nor anything like that

it just seemed quite weird to me that someone would be ok to spend 60$ on a game, but without the intention to complete it

but hey, if 60$ is nothing to you, then good for you

I don't think it's all that uncommon for people to not replay for every route in a game that has path splits.

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Completing one path is still a completed playthrough, even if it's not 100%ing. And... look, as asinine as the Money vs. Hours metric is, if each route is like 60 hours, a single playthrough is good value.

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I dont think that the 4th path will be a Black Eagles branch specifically; after portraying every house as equal to the others. This would favor the Black Eagles. I think that every House will have Path A and Path B will be common for all three houses. Path B will be a unification path. How many of us, given the chance, would spare opponents and lords of the other Houses?

 

The game is titled "Fire Emblem: Three Houses", not "Fire Emblem: Black Eagles and the other two"

 

 

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20 minutes ago, RasaelKunn said:

I dont think that the 4th path will be a Black Eagles branch specifically; after portraying every house as equal to the others. This would favor the Black Eagles. I think that every House will have Path A and Path B will be common for all three houses. Path B will be a unification path. How many of us, given the chance, would spare opponents and lords of the other Houses?

 

The game is titled "Fire Emblem: Three Houses", not "Fire Emblem: Black Eagles and the other two"

 

 

Spoiler

A reviewer from the Golden Deer also stated that your charisma level had a significant effect at one point in the plot. it was in his ama on reddit yesterday

So it really does appear to not matter what house it is

Edited by firewitch912
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8 minutes ago, firewitch912 said:

So it really does appear to not matter what house it is

I decided not click on the spoiler tag but I will take your word on it. I am happy to hear the news that the fourth route is available to all houses. 

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5 minutes ago, Ririn said:

I decided not click on the spoiler tag but I will take your word on it. I am happy to hear the news that the fourth route is available to all houses. 

The important part from it is that a reviewer who played golden deer also mentioned a split route. Though there's no way to actually know if it's the same/similar route split that has been talked about here

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4 minutes ago, firewitch912 said:

The important part from it is that a reviewer who played golden deer also mentioned a split route. Though there's no way to actually know if it's the same/similar route split that has been talked about here

Thanks for clarification. I suppose we will know once we played it ourselves or once the embargo lifts. 

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How is the Black Eagles being more imporrant than other houses any different from past games where one Lord in a set was more important than other Lords (Alm over Celica, Eliwood over Hector and Lyn regardless of Lyn being used as a poster girl, Eirika over Ephraim, Ike over Micaiah, Chrom and Robin over Lucina)?

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37 minutes ago, Eryon said:

How is the Black Eagles being more imporrant than other houses any different from past games where one Lord in a set was more important than other Lords (Alm over Celica, Eliwood over Hector and Lyn regardless of Lyn being used as a poster girl, Eirika over Ephraim, Ike over Micaiah, Chrom and Robin over Lucina)?

Its not but why would anyone want that preferential treatment to continue? Only because it's been done before doesn't make it a good thing.

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8 hours ago, Eryon said:

How is the Black Eagles being more imporrant than other houses any different from past games where one Lord in a set was more important than other Lords (Alm over Celica, Eliwood over Hector and Lyn regardless of Lyn being used as a poster girl, Eirika over Ephraim, Ike over Micaiah, Chrom and Robin over Lucina)?

I've only played Awakening so I can only speak to that. There isn't a comparison to Three Houses. Awakening didn't ask you to choose whether to align with Chrom, or Robin, or Lucina and pitch them as being equally important. They were all on the same side so yes, it made sense for Lucina to have more of a deuteragonist role to Chrom and Robin. But the whole draw of Three Houses is having the choice of whose side to take, and seeing the ramifications of that choice. One house being pushed as more important or having more options than the others undermines the point of providing a choice in the first place.

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11 hours ago, Eryon said:

How is the Black Eagles being more imporrant than other houses any different from past games where one Lord in a set was more important than other Lords (Alm over Celica, Eliwood over Hector and Lyn regardless of Lyn being used as a poster girl, Eirika over Ephraim, Ike over Micaiah, Chrom and Robin over Lucina)?

Because It's a completely different topic. In Fe7's case it's three lords on the same team going on a journey. In Fe16, you have to make a choice between the three lords and that decision will be heavily influenced by the marketing of the game, which up until recently, favoured Black Eagles. If Edelgard receives a large amount of favouritism it can invalidate the other routes for some people, as they are not valid, or canon. Think of it like if IS was advertising fates, but while one the one hand telling you to make a choice, they were also handing out leaflets saying to pick Conquest. This would influence most players who were interested in Fates to buy Conquest, and thereby not care about Birthright as much. Revelations is a good example of trying to make on path more canon than the others, and it failing abysmally. What i'm basically trying to say is that if a game is advertised as a choice between 3 houses, but one house is much more important than the others, then it's less of a choice and more of annoyance. So it's quite different to other games' approaches.

However, just because I have explained why it's a bad idea, doesn't mean I think it will happen. For example when the main theme was titled "Young Maiden from Hresvleg" people, including me got a bit mad at the favouritism. But recently we've seen the same song titled "Edge of Dawn", so it's likely the former name was just for the song' release with the artist, or maybe it is the name of the song in Japan. I don't really know. But overall I have faith that even though from a pure world-building aspect Edelgard is much more important than the others, being the descendant of Serios, the main lords will all be equally important in the actual story. Small, kind of related example is in Fe4, where from a pure world building base, Julia is the most important character in gen 2, being the descendant of Naga, but Seliph is the main character in the Story, even though he is descended from Baldur who isn't that important compared to other characters. I understand there are major differences between this example and Three houses, but I still have faith that Is wouldn't do something that stupid, especially because they said they like all houses equally, so it wouldn't make sense for them to intentionally favouritise one.

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