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Optimal Class Lines


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9 minutes ago, Kanethedragon said:

So a bit circulatory to this topic but do we know what all the skill level abilities are yet? That list on the main page is somewhat small so I think not, otherwise it's pretty underwhelming given previous custom options though I'm almost certainly it's just the nature of keeping things balanced since the rest we can pick off choosing a character's class path. I like how it seems that we can't make any broken combinations and popular skills being tied to certain classes only reinforces that decision, but I'm also in the camp where I'm sad I can't build my busted Galeforce, Dread Fighter, or Swordmaster comps like in other titles.

The Skills list is the skills from the datamine. We don't have a full map on how those are unlocked/accessed yet.

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13 minutes ago, Rakath said:

The Skills list is the skills from the datamine. We don't have a full map on how those are unlocked/accessed yet.

Okay, good  to know. As for what Master classes we know so far, I'm liking how a lot of those are turning out.

 

Spoiler

Seems like Gremory's gonna end up as the witch class so I expect it to have teleport along with whatever the previous runs. In fact I'm positive most of the master classes are gonna be running on the advanced ones' skills but just add one or two things that are significantly unique to the class e.g. Gremory likely getting witch's teleport.

 

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Is it better to raise units that are planned to become holy/dark/bow knights through the cavalier tree or the mage/archer tree? I'm going to be playing Golden Deer, and I noticed that many units in that house will be great in those master classes, but they can't all be trained in the backliner route or the party may be squishy without help from recruits. Will I have to rely on recruits, or pick and choose who will go down the cavalier line instead?

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35 minutes ago, Vitezen said:

Is it better to raise units that are planned to become holy/dark/bow knights through the cavalier tree or the mage/archer tree? I'm going to be playing Golden Deer, and I noticed that many units in that house will be great in those master classes, but they can't all be trained in the backliner route or the party may be squishy without help from recruits. Will I have to rely on recruits, or pick and choose who will go down the cavalier line instead?

I'd say a bit of one and a bit of the other. Consider that you actually have to play the game before the master classes, and an army of just cavaliers or just mages is not ideal.

If I may add my personal advice, be careful on spamming cavaliers/paladins, they're tanky, but they heavily screw with your character's speed growth (which is VITAL). Maybe unlock both paths and switch around a bit, if there's enough seals.

Edited by timon
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Then would you say this is a game where cavaliers are less powerful than usual? In my experience in other games, cavaliers had few downsides. They were great melee units that were also on horses. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to make as many people mounted as possible. Did IS fix this by nerfing their speed?

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4 minutes ago, Vitezen said:

Then would you say this is a game where cavaliers are less powerful than usual? In my experience in other games, cavaliers had few downsides. They were great melee units that were also on horses. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to make as many people mounted as possible. Did IS fix this by nerfing their speed?

It is very possible that giving Cavaliers poor Spd was IS's idea of nerfing them in this game.

Although, given how promotion gains apparently function, this might not work.  Basically, classes have two sets of stats: base stats for FE1/2/15-style promotion gains and bonus stats that are applied whenever the character is in that class.

Here are the Swordmaster's stats, for example:

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What I'm afraid is going to happen is you'll be able to promote somebody to, say, a Thief for a large Spd gain, and then change back to a Cavalier to circumvent its Spd issues.

Unfortunately I still can't find these class base stats anywhere.

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9 hours ago, Vitezen said:

Is it better to raise units that are planned to become holy/dark/bow knights through the cavalier tree or the mage/archer tree? I'm going to be playing Golden Deer, and I noticed that many units in that house will be great in those master classes, but they can't all be trained in the backliner route or the party may be squishy without help from recruits. Will I have to rely on recruits, or pick and choose who will go down the cavalier line instead?

For the Holy and Dark, I'd say to keep em in the class they are most useful in (Sylvain keep as a cavalier, while Lynhardt should probably stay as a Bishop.)

For Bow Knights, I can see once you get the appropriate bow rank, swapping over would be beneficial to raise your Riding and Lance ranks. Essentially a Bow Knight in all but name.

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1 hour ago, Vitezen said:

Then would you say this is a game where cavaliers are less powerful than usual? In my experience in other games, cavaliers had few downsides. They were great melee units that were also on horses. That's why I thought it would be a good idea to make as many people mounted as possible. Did IS fix this by nerfing their speed?

Apparently dismounting gives you a little Spd bonus (while taking away Mov), but that still doesn't make up for the bad growth. Then again we don't know how relevant Spd will be, as of now it seems that with the reintroduction of weapon weight Str plays a much bigger role, and consider that every other stat on the cavalier is actually pretty good (and Paladins' Res is as always very high, and we know how rare and relevant good Res is).

So yeah, I'd say it's an attempt to nerf them, wheter it will work or not we'll have to see. And we'll have to see how easy it is to work around it (like @Von Ithipathachai said).

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After giving it some thought, there are a few reasons why a low speed growth doesn't matter on cavaliers when your units are mostly mounted.

  1. Previously, cavaliers needed to kill quickly because they used their mobility to act away from the group. When most of your group is mounted or has ranged weapons, they can all work together.
  2. Every mounted class has access to a ranged weapon, whether it be a bow or magic, in addition to hand axes or javelins. If you can't double, use your team to whittle the enemy down first, or support each other with gambits. Again, the team proximity comes into play.
  3. Even if you can't whittle the enemy down with spam, you have combat arts and gambits that allow you to do it with a lone unit.

Besides all those benefits, a key strength of mounted units in 3H compared to other games is the prevalence of area of effect attacks. Mobility is more important than ever to space out your units to avoid these.

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I think in this game Attack Speed is less about doubling (unless you're specifically in the Swordmaster/Assassin/Sniper lines), and more about preventing doubling?

Combat Arts don't allow for follow up attacks. Battalions are about putting in heavy pain without a possible crackback. So being able to double is useful on enemy phase, but in most other cases (again, unless you're a Swordmaster/Assassin/Sniper) you don't really get to employ it?

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7 hours ago, timon said:

Apparently dismounting gives you a little Spd bonus (while taking away Mov), but that still doesn't make up for the bad growth. Then again we don't know how relevant Spd will be, as of now it seems that with the reintroduction of weapon weight Str plays a much bigger role, and consider that every other stat on the cavalier is actually pretty good (and Paladins' Res is as always very high, and we know how rare and relevant good Res is).

So yeah, I'd say it's an attempt to nerf them, wheter it will work or not we'll have to see. And we'll have to see how easy it is to work around it (like @Von Ithipathachai said).

Dismounting actually reduces speed. For a pegasus knight at least, we can see a speed -2 and move -2. No idea how that compares to dismounting for other classes or if move is always reduced to just 4 either

1563756576133.jpg

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After learning the house leaders just have forced story promotions it seems pointless to invest in heavy armor for edel or flying for claude. They will get their unique advanced/master class regardless of their proficiencies.

Might have Claude go

Spoiler

Fighter>Thief>Assassin>Wyvern Master>Barbarossa

for the nice speed growths early on

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It depends on what skills/combat arts are unlocked by ranking the various movements? As while there's no requirement for it there could be a spicy ability or two in there.

But yes, not needing requirements for the House Leaders means you can aim for other class mastery gains.

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7 hours ago, Emperor Hardin said:

Heavy Armor doesn't to have any use so far based on my glances at the classes. It seems like they needed more skills.

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The only thing I can see for raising a unit as a Knight to Fortress is to ready Edelgard for her Emperor class.

 

Spoiler

I think Edelgard's Armored Lord and Emperor classes are automatically gained through story progression, so Heavy Armor won't be needed even for those.

If there's one benefit to training up Heavy Armor, it's that you can get the high Def boosts I assume are gained from unlocking those classes.

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So just got post time skip and can do master classes. I got to say, they are NOT as good as i thought. Some advanced classes are as good as them, Paladin for example, it is way better than Great Knight and there is even a net loss in stats. Same with lets say Bisho/Warlock and the mounted master classes, but the movement makes them overall better, but still, stat and skill wise, there isnt that much of a difference at all.

Edit: Oh but if you can pass (or even try to pass) a master class, go for it, cause some stats that require a minimun stay at that number even after reclassing. For example, my Felix had like 8 magic, but when he became a Mortal Sarvant it went up till 19, but when i changed back it was at 17, not 8 like before.

Edited by Nio
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20 hours ago, Nio said:

So just got post time skip and can do master classes. I got to say, they are NOT as good as i thought. Some advanced classes are as good as them, Paladin for example, it is way better than Great Knight and there is even a net loss in stats. Same with lets say Bisho/Warlock and the mounted master classes, but the movement makes them overall better, but still, stat and skill wise, there isnt that much of a difference at all.

 Edit: Oh but if you can pass (or even try to pass) a master class, go for it, cause some stats that require a minimun stay at that number even after reclassing. For example, my Felix had like 8 magic, but when he became a Mortal Sarvant it went up till 19, but when i changed back it was at 17, not 8 like before.

Which classes matches the Noble/Commoner costumes of your army?

Spoiler

I've seen Petra as an Assassin and her costume is the same as her Commoner outfit.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jayvee94 said:

Which classes matches the Noble/Commoner costumes of your army?

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I've seen Petra as an Assassin and her costume is the same as her Commoner outfit.

 

Wow you are rigth! Now that i think about it, i belive Ferdinand Paladin has the same outfit. Gonna check when i can do more certifications.

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20 hours ago, Nio said:

Wow you are rigth! Now that i think about it, i belive Ferdinand Paladin has the same outfit. Gonna check when i can do more certifications.

You can just preview them. No need to spend seals.

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1 minute ago, Jayvee94 said:

You can just preview them. No need to spend seals.

No i mean, im at the monastery rigth now, cant preview then (i think) because i cant take the test.

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On 7/26/2019 at 7:20 AM, Von Ithipathachai said:
  Reveal hidden contents

I think Edelgard's Armored Lord and Emperor classes are automatically gained through story progression, so Heavy Armor won't be needed even for those.

If there's one benefit to training up Heavy Armor, it's that you can get the high Def boosts I assume are gained from unlocking those classes.

Can't you get that by unlocking other classes though?

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