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The Fire Emblem 3 Houses General Questions Thread


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13 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

What form, exactly, does Lonato's rebellion take? When we fight him, his knights, along with Gaspard commoners, are fighting to defend him from execution or capture. But what did he do to bring things to this point?

We know he is described as raising an army, and the Knights of Seiros are sent to defeat him. But what, exactly, is he doing? Has he attacked members of the Central Church? Or overtaken property of the Central Church? Was he supposed to pay a tax to the Central Church, and refused? Or has he just been distributing anti-Rhea literature?

Any insight on this point would be helpful. How morally justified the Church is in their conduct suppressing the rebellion, depends in large part on what form that rebellion took to begin with. Thank you!

I believe all the game tells us is that Lonato suddenly raises an army and starts advancing towards the church (at a leisurely pass of course because we've got a whole month to fill), and the church sends the Knights to stop him before he can gain more support or enter the monastery grounds. Then you as the player are sent to scout and assist if any threats remain, at which point you are ambushed and forced to fight you're way out and kill him as he will not stop the rebellion no matter who talks to him, not even his Prince or his adopted Son who were both at the monastery at the time of his rebellion. 

Overall not much detail on what Lonato did exactly after he raised his army, but an approaching army is still a threat to the people and needs to be quelled. For what it's worth all House leaders agree that while what happened is sad, it was still necessary to stop him. 

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It's difficult to say for sure because we never get an unbiased source on the matter. It's definitely not a good look for the church that they executed Christophe for conspiracy to commit the Tragedy of Duscur when he did no such thing (Catherine/Ashe support), so I would never call them "morally justified" here. Lonato's rebellion is understandable, but it also is inevitably going to shed innocent blood as well, so it's hard to think of him as pure himself. Nobody comes out of that situation looking that good IMO.

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5 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

It's definitely not a good look for the church that they executed Christophe for conspiracy to commit the Tragedy of Duscur when he did no such thing (Catherine/Ashe support), so I would never call them "morally justified" here.

Well he did try to assassinate Rhea, and considering all countries acknowledge Rhea as the Archbishop it probably would be classed as treason. And If that happened to Edelgard, Dimitri or Claude then the assassin would have also been executed for treason. So Christophe isn't innocent. But anyway it's a morally grey point of conflict, both sides have wrongs and I happen to think Lonato was more wrong than the church, but this isn't the place for a discussion like that. 

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I think it's extremely wrong to convict someone for a crime they did not commit, even if they might have committed another crime that merits execution (but of course, there was no need to try and convict him of that crime, was there?). That's creepy authoritarianism worthy of Stalin and I can't say I consider Lonato unjust to rebel against it.

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Does anyone have any tips on a solid build for Caspar for a NG+ Maddening run? I was thinking I’d send him down the War Master route and pick up Vantage and Wrath to make him a Crit machine, but that’s the only idea I’ve come up with thus far. I know the subject of his his usefulness (or lack thereof) can be a bit of a contentious, especially on a Maddening run, so any suggestions would be appreciated. 

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1 hour ago, blaerionvonhraesvelgr said:

Does anyone have any tips on a solid build for Caspar for a NG+ Maddening run? I was thinking I’d send him down the War Master route and pick up Vantage and Wrath to make him a Crit machine, but that’s the only idea I’ve come up with thus far. I know the subject of his his usefulness (or lack thereof) can be a bit of a contentious, especially on a Maddening run, so any suggestions would be appreciated. 

Caspar gets access to batallion wrath at C authority, so equipping him with a low durability battalion along with wrath and vantage allows him to have constant 100 crit all the time on enemy phase. And the build works on any class, though his poor skill ranks don't suggest anything other than war master route. The build its also susceptible to siege weapons even if Caspar has Retribution applied to him (which he should), so watch out. In my experience with Caspar, once he got Strength +2, Death Blow, and Bombard (C+ brawling) he was one rounding all generics with no need to crit. So if being a player phase delete button is enough for you, you don't need either of the wraths or vantage. All that coming together was around chapter 7 for me, and will be sooner for you due to NG+  boosts. He's got pretty atrocious stats at level 1, so stick with him.

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19 hours ago, SpiceMan said:

Well he did try to assassinate Rhea, and considering all countries acknowledge Rhea as the Archbishop it probably would be classed as treason. And If that happened to Edelgard, Dimitri or Claude then the assassin would have also been executed for treason. So Christophe isn't innocent. But anyway it's a morally grey point of conflict, both sides have wrongs and I happen to think Lonato was more wrong than the church, but this isn't the place for a discussion like that. 

I disagree with the "treason" assertion, on the basis that Rhea doesn't possess political authority over Lonato and the other Kingdom nobles. She has religious authority, yes, but only the Throne of Faerghus has political authority. Like, if I were attempting to assassinate the Pope, I would be guilty of conspiracy to murder, but not treason.

On 1/17/2020 at 11:35 AM, SpiceMan said:

I believe all the game tells us is that Lonato suddenly raises an army and starts advancing towards the church (at a leisurely pass of course because we've got a whole month to fill), and the church sends the Knights to stop him before he can gain more support or enter the monastery grounds. Then you as the player are sent to scout and assist if any threats remain, at which point you are ambushed and forced to fight you're way out and kill him as he will not stop the rebellion no matter who talks to him, not even his Prince or his adopted Son who were both at the monastery at the time of his rebellion. 

Overall not much detail on what Lonato did exactly after he raised his army, but an approaching army is still a threat to the people and needs to be quelled. For what it's worth all House leaders agree that while what happened is sad, it was still necessary to stop him. 

Thanks for the insight. 

It bugs me that we see this conflict as a two-party affair (Lonato vs. The Central Church), when there are more figures at play. Presumably, the Kingdom leadership (Uncle Rufus, at the moment) disapproves of Lonato's rebellion - so, does he send in troops? Does he ask the Knights of Seiros to intervene, or do they do so on their own accord (with or without Kingdom approval)? Does Lonato's army cross into another Lord's domain, and does said Lord approve or disapprove of the incursion? And if Lonato's army's progress is limited to his own (Gaspard) territory, does the Church even have the right to intervene?

While I wouldn't say that Lonato is justified in attempting to kill the Archbishop, I do think its possible that, depending on the answers to these questions, the Central Church overstepped their bounds in putting him, and his rebellion, down.

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I read alot that apearently Dimitri is the most liked character.

I have played now Dimitri and Claudes path and started Edelgard.

My question is why? Dimitris personality while tragic is a lost cause and i liked Claude by quite alot.

While i havent finished Edelgard (still pretime sink) She makes more sense and seems strong willed.

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27 minutes ago, Hilda said:

I read alot that apearently Dimitri is the most liked character.

I have played now Dimitri and Claudes path and started Edelgard.

My question is why? Dimitris personality while tragic is a lost cause and i liked Claude by quite alot.

While i havent finished Edelgard (still pretime sink) She makes more sense and seems strong willed.

This is probably not an argument you want to start xD Emotions run high on all three sides. I'll explain Dimitri as best I can though.

This got longer than I intended so I put it under a spoiler.

Spoiler

 

The main thing people like about Dimitri is his character arc. Going from someone holding it together despite all the bad things that have happened, to a broken man who's tormented by PTSD and survivor's guilt that's been compounded by years of isolation, and finally culminating in someone who manages to start overcoming all of that for the sake of helping the living and not the dead. While most of the people who like him, myself included, would like to be able to wring his neck at times, there's still a desire there to help him. Dimitri started out being very kind and honorable, with a strong sense of justice, which fosters attachment to him that makes you want to see him recover. His mental illness twists his demeanor but his base motivation remains: he's sick of seeing innocent people killed for the sake of someone else's ideals.

That's not even touching the symbolism in his route. Dimitri is constantly portrayed as being in the dark, with Byleth being the one in the light. His Goddess Tower conversation isn't just for show when he talks about how he believes that the Goddess won't offer her hand and even if she did, they lack the ability to reach back. When you first see him again, Byleth is standing in the light and reaches out their hand for Dimitri. But Dimitri, so mentally sick, is in the dark and currently unable to reach back. That trend follows up until the end with Edelgard, when Dimitri nearly turns back into the darkness, only to be stopped by Byleth taking his hand and walking with him into the light.

Dimitri's story overall is one of hope. Of hope in people, hope in yourself, hope in your friends. Hope that even someone as broken as Dimitri can start to pick themselves back up and turn things around, that they can begin to heal and help the world.

 

 

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On 1/19/2020 at 5:08 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I disagree with the "treason" assertion, on the basis that Rhea doesn't possess political authority over Lonato and the other Kingdom nobles. She has religious authority, yes, but only the Throne of Faerghus has political authority. Like, if I were attempting to assassinate the Pope, I would be guilty of conspiracy to murder, but not treason.

Thanks for the insight. 

It bugs me that we see this conflict as a two-party affair (Lonato vs. The Central Church), when there are more figures at play. Presumably, the Kingdom leadership (Uncle Rufus, at the moment) disapproves of Lonato's rebellion - so, does he send in troops? Does he ask the Knights of Seiros to intervene, or do they do so on their own accord (with or without Kingdom approval)? Does Lonato's army cross into another Lord's domain, and does said Lord approve or disapprove of the incursion? And if Lonato's army's progress is limited to his own (Gaspard) territory, does the Church even have the right to intervene?

While I wouldn't say that Lonato is justified in attempting to kill the Archbishop, I do think its possible that, depending on the answers to these questions, the Central Church overstepped their bounds in putting him, and his rebellion, down.

It's something that bugs me about the Part 1 Missions that -aren't- fully focused on actively dealing with TWSITD and the Flame Emperor honestly. My first playthrough was Blue Lions and I thought that our class dealt with it because we -are- from the Kingdom, thus we focus largely on things in that territory, so it was disappointing to find out that it's dealt with in every route.

As far as one can tell, Lord Lonato doesn't cross over into another house's territory; the only thing close to being in-between Castle Gaspard and the Monastery is Arianrhod so presumably he could march there without aggravating another House. Does Dimitri have any dialogue related to it, that month? I do know he has special dialogue with Lonato who refuses to stand down even with his -Prince and thus future King- and deal with things peacefully. Rufus is also mentioned to be a rather complacent ruler, with several characters mentioning that Faerghus had been getting slowly run into the ground ever since Lambert died(citation needed, only at the start of a new BL run so my memory is foggy) so I'm not too sure on that one either.

The situation is an egregious one no doubt.

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33 minutes ago, AyraXLex said:

How does recruiting Jeritza in CF work?

 

Like, is it a level requirement, or does he just join at a set point like Seteth?

He joins automatically at the start of Chapter 13.

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On 1/20/2020 at 9:23 AM, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

This is probably not an argument you want to start xD Emotions run high on all three sides. I'll explain Dimitri as best I can though.

This got longer than I intended so I put it under a spoiler.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

The main thing people like about Dimitri is his character arc. Going from someone holding it together despite all the bad things that have happened, to a broken man who's tormented by PTSD and survivor's guilt that's been compounded by years of isolation, and finally culminating in someone who manages to start overcoming all of that for the sake of helping the living and not the dead. While most of the people who like him, myself included, would like to be able to wring his neck at times, there's still a desire there to help him. Dimitri started out being very kind and honorable, with a strong sense of justice, which fosters attachment to him that makes you want to see him recover. His mental illness twists his demeanor but his base motivation remains: he's sick of seeing innocent people killed for the sake of someone else's ideals.

That's not even touching the symbolism in his route. Dimitri is constantly portrayed as being in the dark, with Byleth being the one in the light. His Goddess Tower conversation isn't just for show when he talks about how he believes that the Goddess won't offer her hand and even if she did, they lack the ability to reach back. When you first see him again, Byleth is standing in the light and reaches out their hand for Dimitri. But Dimitri, so mentally sick, is in the dark and currently unable to reach back. That trend follows up until the end with Edelgard, when Dimitri nearly turns back into the darkness, only to be stopped by Byleth taking his hand and walking with him into the light.

Dimitri's story overall is one of hope. Of hope in people, hope in yourself, hope in your friends. Hope that even someone as broken as Dimitri can start to pick themselves back up and turn things around, that they can begin to heal and help the world.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like this if the intended canon character was female Byleth instead of male. I'm cool with bromance but for all intents and purposes from a literature point of view most stories are written in a way where a female is the one who heals a broken male and from that love fosters. Now before we go down the direction or conversation of what role Byleth played and how that impacted Dimitri's character development the one thing I did want to point out that always bugged me was this

--Dimitri is a Gary Stu to the MAX. Like now matter what is said, the universe clearly stacked the chips in his favor. This main point is why I refuse to acknowledge him and give him my vote as most popular and would rather go Claude or Edelgard as to who is my favorite. I could count at least 5 instances in which Dimitri should have either lost or failed and yet he still powered thru. I felt like he was pampered and didn't really win.

Not too long ago in the Three Houses sub section I created a thread discussing teleporting or warping as a broken plot device used by story tellers/creators as being a cheap method to advance the plot and make it so certain characters can't be beaten or sparing certain people for plot related reasons. I mentioned how it is always rigged so villains can do it but never the good guys and how the good never include in their plans a way to stop enemies from teleporting away despite them having knowledge of it happening at crucial times enough to warrant it getting attention. Suffice to say I know all three Lords benefit from this but I feel Dimitri was just broken from a literature point of view in how he gets carried thru the story. That's my 2 cents. @Hilda don't worry, you aren't the only one confused by his popularity. If you aren't confused about it and get it, then I take it you are upset by his ranking in the polls? 

 

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29 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

 @Hilda don't worry, you aren't the only one confused by his popularity. If you aren't confused about it and get it, then I take it you are upset by his ranking in the polls? 

 

No i am not upset. I was just wondering what people see in him, because from my perspectiv, his story arch paints a person that is absolutly not fit to lead anyone, let alone a nation.

Now dont get me wrong. The event of loosing his loved ones as a child is definitly traumatizing, left scars and as we see some psychodramatic effect on his behaviour. His lack for  resilience becomes quite prominent after the 5 year gap, where he was unable to take posture (and yes i know he was accused of a wrongfull murder) and a stand to oppose the difficulties he faces for the benefit of his people and his country. Instead of rallying nobles/friends he had behind him for his cause and his country he just let himself go and his emotions took the best of him. He just is not a stable person at all. He needed to be dragged out by his former teacher.
I dont see that as a quality in either a hero nor someone thats supposed to lead a country. The way I see it as soon as something tragic or traumatic happens he will falter again.

This is why i currently like Claudes path more (not only on his path but on the different route as well) and his character. He tries to make the best out of the situation as far as he can handle and doesnt give up that easy. And i am pretty sure he had some traumatizing events in his past too.

As for Edelgard i cant judge that yet, because i need to play through her path yet fully (both parts) to make a judgement. But from what i have seen now paints a strong willed female leader with very strong resilience.

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Ahhh this is exactly why I said she probably didn't want to bring up this argument.

39 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

Don't get me wrong, I like this if the intended canon character was female Byleth instead of male. I'm cool with bromance but for all intents and purposes from a literature point of view most stories are written in a way where a female is the one who heals a broken male and from that love fosters.

This means literally nothing. It is not a point against or for Dimitri or Byleth and outside of their S support, everything I listed happens directly in the story, regardless of Byleth's gender. It can be your personal preference but in the grand scheme of things, it generally being the female has no bearing on this story.

42 minutes ago, Tediz64 said:

-Dimitri is a Gary Stu to the MAX. Like now matter what is said, the universe clearly stacked the chips in his favor. This main point is why I refuse to acknowledge him and give him my vote as most popular and would rather go Claude or Edelgard as to who is my favorite. I could count at least 5 instances in which Dimitri should have either lost or failed and yet he still powered thru. I felt like he was pampered and didn't really win.

Ahh this tired old argument. As I'm sure you can tell, I am a fan of Micaiah. From that I'm certain you can understand just how much this made me roll my eyes. Gary Stu/Mary Sue is no longer an argument, it's simply a label applied to a character someone doesn't like in order to stop discussions and try to make people feel bad for liking said character. But since you brought it up, I'll bite. In the story, Dimitri never once bends the rules of the universe around him in order to make his story work. Not once. That automatically disqualifies him but let's go deeper.

  • Dimitri is the only lord character to die off screen. Twice.
  • Dimitri is called out on being a monster/beast/animal several times, by more people than just Felix, on every route.
  • Dimitri does not get all of the answers he seeks, unlike Edelgard or Claude.
  • Dimitri does not just get over his mental illness. He still very much suffers from it, whether you get the S support with f!Byleth or not.
  • Dimitri actually suffers from his loss, arguably more than anyone not named Edelgard or Rhea. Him handling it differently does not make him a bad character or a Gary Stu.
  • Dimitri regularly fails in his goals. Be they bringing the perpetrators of Duscur to justice or the several times he attempted to kill Edelgard and failed.
  • Dimitri does not officially get rid of the Agarthans. While I personally find AM to be perfectly fine without a dedicated attack on Shambala, there are those that find this to be a major shortcoming.

You want to know who I could actually apply that label to out of the lords? (Byleth) Claude. Claude is not only the only Lord that doesn't have to die on any route, he's also the only one with an out, the only one to fight Nemesis, the only one to get the truth of the Nabateans out of Rhea, the only one that manages to hold his country together when both Edelgard and Dimitri fail, the only one that doesn't suffer from much meddling from TWSITD, the only one with the ability to bring in a whole other army without all of the drawbacks that Edelgard has to go through with the Agarthans, the only one to not suffer from some form of debilitating PTSD, and the only one to not actually experience much loss! This is not to say that I don't like Claude. I very much do. But out of the three of them, he is the one the narrative bows to the most.

As for your last paragraph, that's not really an argument either way so I'll just say this. My original post was to explain to someone who asked what those who like Dimitri see in him.

@Hilda While I am sorry for the long rant, I do hope my original post was able to bring you some understanding about what people see in Dimitri.

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33 minutes ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

Ahh this tired old argument. As I'm sure you can tell, I am a fan of Micaiah. From that I'm certain you can understand just how much this made me roll my eyes. Gary Stu/Mary Sue is no longer an argument, it's simply a label applied to a character someone doesn't like in order to stop discussions and try to make people feel bad for liking said character. But since you brought it up, I'll bite. In the story, Dimitri never once bends the rules of the universe around him in order to make his story work. Not once. That automatically disqualifies him but let's go deeper.

You want to know who I could actually apply that label to out of the lords? (Byleth) Claude. Claude is not only the only Lord that doesn't have to die on any route, he's also the only one with an out, the only one to fight Nemesis, the only one to get the truth of the Nabateans out of Rhea, the only one that manages to hold his country together when both Edelgard and Dimitri fail, the only one that doesn't suffer from much meddling from TWSITD, the only one with the ability to bring in a whole other army without all of the drawbacks that Edelgard has to go through with the Agarthans, the only one to not suffer from some form of debilitating PTSD, and the only one to not actually experience much loss! This is not to say that I don't like Claude. I very much do. But out of the three of them, he is the one the narrative bows to the most.

You do realize that Gary/Mary Stu is a perfectly valid argument. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it invalid and there are definitely points to Dimitri being a Gary Stu in the way a lot of things are handled, most specifically his redemption arc and the lack of consequences around said crazy period. Being called a monster isn't grounds for someone not being a Gary Stu. That being said, I don't agree that Dimitri is a Gary Stu, but I do feel like he comes closest to this in his own route, versus the other two routes where he definitely loses that quality. But he is very much the traditional FE lord in a lot of ways, and definitely at points falls into that trap. And I love Dimitri, but I don't think the argument is invalid.

But my main argument here is that Claude is not even close to this. Someone doesn't have to die to not be a Gary Stu. Claude is shown to be incredibly clever. He's holding on by a thread and is shown how many gambles he tries that don't always pay off. He discovered everything because from the beginning he was shown to be the one that is always prying. He never relents and his curiosity is a point the entire time. So much so, he's willing to steal from Byleth in their time of grief just to gain more information. The narrative doesn't bow to him at all, if anything he consistently feels like the underdog, and has to overcome things through brains rather than brute strength and friendship (Dimitri) and nothing going seriously wrong (Edelgard). Claude felt the most realistic out of the 3, and if we want to talk about his other paths, he always loses, but he's shrewd and smart enough to know how to not die. That doesn't make someone a Gary Stu.

This is all to say, if anything, I think Byleth, being this all powerful force creates a feeling of ease/Gary/Mary Stu-ness in the other characters on whatever route they joins. They're so overpowered in a sense, that they literally turns the entire tide of war by whose side they joins. Without them, there's just a 5 year stalemate that is suddenly wrapped up once they awaken. 

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11 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

You do realize that Gary/Mary Stu is a perfectly valid argument.

No. It's NEVER a valid argument. You wanna criticize Dimitri and talking about how the story bends over backwards for him, fine. But leave such terms out of the discussion. It just makes the argument dull, pointless, and just silly.

You have arguments? You have criticism? Make them. Just don't use the term, because it's not either one of those. 

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9 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

No. It's NEVER a valid argument. You wanna criticize Dimitri and talking about how the story bends over backwards for him, fine. But leave such terms out of the discussion. It just makes the argument dull, pointless, and just silly.

You have arguments? You have criticism? Make them. Just don't use the term, because it's not either one of those. 

Given some of the asinine garbage I've seen you spew in other topics arguing about the lords, you're not in a position to talk.

No point in continuing this "discussion".

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Just now, Sid Starkiller said:

Given some of the asinine garbage I've seen you spew in other topics arguing about the lords, you're not in a position to talk.

No point in continuing this "discussion".

Asinine garbage, eh? I don't know, have I ever once called someone Mary Sue/Gary Stu? Nope.

Because I have plenty of arguments or criticisms. But never once have I used such terms. 

So, no. I'd say I'm in every position to actually talk. As someone that does make criticisms and arguments, the fact that I never use such terms is why I can call someone out on it.

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2 hours ago, Silver-Haired Maiden said:

@Hilda While I am sorry for the long rant, I do hope my original post was able to bring you some understanding about what people see in Dimitri.

I dont see it as a rant and its totally fine, i see it as a healthy discussion. Thx for the viewpoints you put in the spoiler. While i can see why his "human-tragic" side in the story attracts people. From my point of view (I may have a different point of view then other) he is the weakest of the 3 Lords yet when it comes to character. Thats prolly because i look at him rather from a "Leadership" point of view in which he showcases (as I explained) severe flaws when it comes to resilience and the strenght of mind to withstand hardship, while also struggling to keep a clear objectiv mind when it comes to makeing decisions that can inflict his countrys /peoples future. He is a failed hero/leader, because he failed to stand up when his people needed him the most. In that regard i take a bow before his people/subordinates that endured/managed to pull through a war when their leader utterly failed to take an initiativ and did not try to get things right.

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4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

No. It's NEVER a valid argument. You wanna criticize Dimitri and talking about how the story bends over backwards for him, fine. But leave such terms out of the discussion. It just makes the argument dull, pointless, and just silly.

You have arguments? You have criticism? Make them. Just don't use the term, because it's not either one of those. 

Why can't you do both? It's a phrasing that everyone can instantly understand, and then backed up with examples, it's a smart way to go about things. Talking about tropes by name is a great way to make an argument. It gives everyone a base starting point of what assertions are going to be made and what evidence is going to be presented.

What makes it silly/dull/pointless is people's reactions to it. Don't shut-down because someone says it, because not everyone HAS a plethora of words or phrases to use to explain a concept that has already been distilled for us. 

So it's okay to use a term as long as you back it up and have other criticism that support it. But at the very least everyone knows what you're arguing for (or against). It's silly to just dismiss a term. 

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Back to questions:

Gronder 2: I know when you beat Edelgard, she lights the central hill on fire. Which means if for some reason you walked past Bernie without killing her, she gets caught in the fire. Does she actually react in that event? I would imagine IS assumed people would take Bernie out first (not only is she much closer to your starting position, but she stays parked on a turret, pelting you all the way while you approach Edelgard), and didn't make a reaction, but I'm curious.

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9 minutes ago, Sid Starkiller said:

Back to questions:

Gronder 2: I know when you beat Edelgard, she lights the central hill on fire. Which means if for some reason you walked past Bernie without killing her, she gets caught in the fire. Does she actually react in that event? I would imagine IS assumed people would take Bernie out first (not only is she much closer to your starting position, but she stays parked on a turret, pelting you all the way while you approach Edelgard), and didn't make a reaction, but I'm curious.

There's no reaction from Bernie, iirc. 

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