New Monastery Area Confirmed!

[Cysx]

5 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I mean, people say that IS is doing this to appeal to their fans, but personally, I think a lot of design decisions are made because it's what some of the developers themselves want to add to the game, and I don't see a problem with that.

I definitely don't think they're doing this to appeal to fans. It remains to be seen what the feature actually is, but the obvious implication is the opportunity to show characters almost naked, for visual appeal. And despite the "fan" in fanservice, it's mostly the good ol' sex sells mantra at play. In other words, this is to appeal to non fans most likely, broaden the demographic by adding something that doesn't have much to do with the game.

I mean, if that's part of their vision I can take it I guess, but considering the removal of outfit damage and the more subdued armor design, that doesn't really add up. There's also no denying that they kept it hidden until the last moment, just like they did with skinship, which I can't help but feel suspicious about.

[Jingle Jangle]

I wonder what unit will ask to be close or to scrub their back. My guess is Ignatz.

[Lord of Riva]

43 minutes ago, Cysx said:

 In other words, this is to appeal to non fans most likely, broaden the demographic by adding something that doesn't have much to do with the game.

I'm a Fan, played all of them and do not mind fanservice (and I did not mind it in Fates even, including the minigame), even if I don't think it's necessary.

 this does sounds like, being a FE veteran and enjoying fanservice is some kind of contradiction and I can't wrap my head around why that would be the case.

That said, again, a Sauna has inherently nothing to do with Sex, if people see it like that doesn't that shine more of how they perceive things?

A lot of games in the (anime Styled) Strategy genre have slight fanservice or even more spicy content (look at all the PC-98 games), I would argue that it is more par for the course than not.

A Sauna, even with stupid walk-in situations is incredibly tame. (In fact I used a mixed Sauna a few weeks ago, like many times before. I do not see how this can even be considered fanservice.)

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lord of Riva

[Druplesnubb]

48 minutes ago, Cysx said:

There's also no denying that they kept it hidden until the last moment, just like they did with skinship, which I can't help but feel suspicious about.

Um no, skinship was revealed back in the first My Castle video, and I'm fairly certain some famitsu article went over it too.

[Cysx]

41 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

I'm a Fan, played all of them and do not mind fanservice (and I did not mind it in Fates even, including the minigame), even if I don't think it's necessary.

not only does this sounds like, being a FE veteran and enjoying fanservice is some kind of contradiction and I can't wrap my head around why that would be the case.

That said, again, a Sauna has inherently nothing to do with Sex, if people see it like that doesn't that shine more of how they perceive things?

A lot of games in the (anime Styled) Strategy genre have slight fanservice or even more spicy content (look at all the PC-98 games), I would argue that it is more par for the course than not.

I'm not saying if you're a fan you have to dislike fanservice. I'm saying Fire Emblem isn't mainly about fanservice, and you probably don't play Fire Emblem primarily for the fanservice, hence if fanservice is added, it's unlikely to be for the fans. That is not to say that you shouldn't be happy that it's happening if that's how you feel.

"Sex sells" isn't about literal sex so much as sexualization, and I do call the creating of a context for people to be half naked in when they'd have no reason to be otherwise sexualization, doubly so because this kind of features strives on benefit of the doubt and such. Which is not to say that it's evil and should be destroyed, but I do think that's a pretty solid explanation for the integration of this feature, if, again, that's even what it is in the first place.

I really don't think associating FE with the few PC-98 games I can think of is fair. Still I won't pretend it's a huge surprise when it happens, but that doesn't make it cool or justifies not getting angry at it. If anything it's the opposite.

Edit:

21 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Um no, skinship was revealed back in the first My Castle video, and I'm fairly certain some famitsu article went over it too.

Yeah, I was thinking back of the "Skinship! With your true little sister!" narrative, and admittedly, that didn't feel that far into the pre-release. There was something though, other than the kids...

Edit2: Eeeeh skinship was revealed pretty late, less than a month before the game's release. It was also one of the last features we learned about, my castle itself was introduced in Famitsu before that. But admittedly, that wasn't the last moment.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Cysx

[Lord of Riva]

1 minute ago, Cysx said:

I'm saying Fire Emblem isn't mainly about fanservice, and you probably don't play Fire Emblem primarily for the fanservice, hence if fanservice is added, it's unlikely to be for the fans.

No, it is not the main Part of the series, that would be a Turn-based strategy game but already early on the designs of characters reflected "fanservice" (it's such an odd word anyways).

Sexuality is part of human nature and it is always wierd to me why so many people feel that it's problematic.

Look at it this way, Fire emblem always had some anime aesthetic style going on and that in itself does sexualize the character design, Sharp eyes for the men, Deer eyes for the women.

Quote

I do call the creating of a context for people to be half naked in when they'd have no reason to be otherwise sexualization, 

but it is not creating a context when there is no reason. If there is a pool for swimming in an Academy there is also a chance that a Sauna exist.

using a Sauna is healthy, it is relaxing and you can even enjoy it together. The only thing I would agree here regarding sexualistaion is that the visitors will most likely optimally beautiful (Anime, right? ) men and Women with fit bodies, instead of mostly 60+ year old men and women with ughhh, less than optimal looks.

Quote

I really don't think associating FE with the few PC-98 games I can think of is fair. Still I won't pretend it's a huge surprise when it happens, but that doesn't make it cool or justifies not getting angry at it. If anything it's the opposite.

Association, was not really what I had in mind, rather I wanted to point out that the art has always been used to depict sexual situations, the "anime style" ( I know, a generalisation a lot of them don't, most do however) over exaggerates sexual characteristics that in itself sexualizes (... and i do not see anything wrong with that). additionally, Looking at these games you will have to see how many of them are SRPGs or RPGs.

But I do not have to look to the past for that, this is still the case, from Langrisser character designs, to the Growlanser series to stuff like Nier Automata, sex and great gameplay are not contradictory and I am not gonna mention names, a lot of Great strategy game influence does still come out of the adult oriented industries.

 

Listen, i do not want to prolong a debate on this, you are naturally entitled to your opinion and I respect that. A Sauna though, is still nothing sexual. XD

[Fabulously Olivier]

It isn't a real JRPG without spontaneous, awkward, and forced sexual tension. 

[Cysx]

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

No, it is not the main Part of the series, that would be a Turn-based strategy game but already early on the designs of characters reflected "fanservice" (it's such an odd word anyways).

Well now you're the one making their perception of things questionable. But bad faith aside, I'd say it was pretty conservative frankly.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Sexuality is part of human nature and it is always wierd to me why so many people feel that it's problematic.

It's not that, please stop. There's just a time and a place for things. This is a given in any context that isn't debating media integration of sexuality for some reason.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Look at it this way, Fire emblem always had some anime aesthetic style going on and that in itself does sexualize the character design, Sharp eyes for the men, Deer eyes for the women.

You're just lumping together attractiveness and sexualization though. There's a line, and it's not that hard to perceive. Though attractiveness in fiction is an interesting subject too, that's not really what we're discussing here.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

but it is not creating a context when there is no reason. If there is a pool for swimming in an Academy there is also a chance that a Sauna exist.

We shall see! And the pool isn't for swimming at all. This is exactly what I'm talking about with benefit of the doubt arguments though. You can always make those when it comes to matters like these, devs aren't dumb, they always make things subdued enough. The question you gotta ask yourself is, what's the most likely intention behind this feature? And if the answer is "probably fanservice", then you're probably playing right into their hand with this kind of arguments.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

Association, was not really what I had in mind, rather I wanted to point out that the art has always been used to depict sexual situations, the "anime style" ( I know, a generalisation a lot of them don't, most do however) 

... no, though. Like, that's clearly incorrect. Would you find it fair to say the same of cartoons? Granted, they're less bad about it I'll grant you, but, still, just... no.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

But I do not have to look to the past for that, this is still the case, from Langrisser character designs, to the Growlanser series to stuff like Nier Automata, sex and great gameplay are not contradictory and I am not gonna mention names, a lot of Great strategy game influence does still come out of the adult oriented industries.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. If your argument is that fanservice doesn't make a game bad, you're absolutely right.

25 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

A Sauna though, is still nothing sexual. XD

This is really frustrating for me, I'm not going to lie. But okay, let's drop it if you want.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Cysx

[Lord of Riva]

7 minutes ago, Cysx said:

You're just lumping together attractiveness and sexualization though. There's a line, and it's not that hard to perceive. though attractiveness in fiction is an interesting subject too, that's not really what we're discussing here.

Not gonna rehash Arguments, we are using to much space here anyways but this statement made me curios.

Could you define attractivenes and sexualisation for me please?

An where exactly is the line between those two?

I would assume we would end up on different opinions anyways but for that I would think it would be necessary to understand if this is a easily defined issue or if it is entirely subjective.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lord of Riva

[Cysx]

1 minute ago, Lord of Riva said:

Could you define attractivenes and sexualisation for me please?

This is obviously going to sound like a cop-out, and that's fine, I'll take it, but...

... seriously?

[ArsSanctum]

8 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

 

Could you define attractivenes and sexualisation for me please?

An where exactly is the line between those two?

 

attractiveness

Dictionary: The quality of being attractive or engaging. The state of being attractive or engaging. The result of being attractive.

sexualization

Dictionary: to render sexual; endow with sexual characteristics.

The difference

One is found, the other is made. You don't have to be sexualized to be attractive. You don't have to be attractive to be sexualized.

Edited July 16, 2019 by ArsSanctum

[Lord of Riva]

18 minutes ago, Cysx said:

This is obviously going to sound like a cop-out, and that's fine, I'll take it, but...

... seriously?

yes.

EDIT: to specify. You said there would be a clear line that we would all understand, as this is definitely not the case for me I need to ask what you exactly mean.

I don't see it as a cop-out, however i wonder if you feared to be trapped? Without defining what we are actually talking about it is practically impossible to not miss each others point.

13 minutes ago, ArsSanctum said:

attractiveness

Dictionary: The quality of being attractive or engaging. The state of being attractive or engaging. The result of being attractive.

sexualization

Dictionary: to render sexual; endow with sexual characteristics.

The difference

One is found, the other is made. You don't have to be sexualized to be attractive. You don't have to be attractive to be sexualized.

That would be kind of helpful, if it wasn't.

I specifically asked for their definition, using a dictionary entry does not really help in understanding each other.

But, well:

Quote

One is found, the other is made. You don't have to be sexualized to be attractive. You don't have to be attractive to be sexualized

If that is the definition we are going on, my argumentation would be correct. The Style would reflect the supposed sexualisation as they are designed in this way, you could hardly argue a natural quality of something fictional.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lord of Riva

[Bloom]

32 minutes ago, Lord of Riva said:

I specifically asked for their definition, using a dictionary entry does not really help in understanding each other.

...What do you think a dictionary is for?

What...?

[Cc920]

I really don't think the fe community can complain about fanservice when they don't even know what they're talking about, Charlottes design was hated for being fanservice even though her outfit is the Same as the generic male fighters just with a bra. And it also shows how hypocritical the fan base is wanting the male and female versions of classes to look the same and then complaining when it actually happens

[Lord of Riva]

47 minutes ago, Bloom said:

...What do you think a dictionary is for?

What...?

#3 now, aren't you guys fun.

I do know what a dictionary is for, I also know what the definition is. Which is EXACTLY why i had to ask, since what was said did not really match, you know.

Listen guys, it's fine if you don't like bathing scenes or something like that. thats fine by me, saying that this has something to do with a broader audience, it being hamfistet despite the developers design wishes or even IS fanservice however is not.

Not only is the line you draw Cysx arbitrary it is highly subjective. And I could argue that the FE Entries up until fates showed way better the design intentions of the developers which were influenced now with three houses by the practically solely western outrage over nothing.

Not that I will, 3 posts with nothing to add are definitely enough to show that there is actually no interest in discussion at all.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Lord of Riva

[Corrobin]

You go in a sauna after a workout to relax. It makes sense.

[Rose482]

28 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

You go in a sauna after a workout to relax. It makes sense.

It makes a lot more sense it being here than it did in FE14.

And I for one don't mind having a little of fan service looking at how tame the majority of the characters designs are. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Rose482

[Bloom]

I think it will be a sauna where you sit around in a towel with randomly selected teachers/students and converse... maybe you will get buffs as well.

Or it might be like in Fates where you just sit around for a moment then it ends, I hope not though. That's SUPER pointless.

[Lord of Riva]

3 minutes ago, Bloom said:

I think it will be a sauna where you sit around in a towel with randomly selected teachers/students and converse... maybe you will get buffs as well.

Or it might be like in Fates where you just sit around for a moment then it ends, I hope not though. That's SUPER pointless.

I wholeheartedly agree on that one at least it should have a function

[B.Leu]

Guys, saying 'it makes more sense than in Fates', isn't really a good argument you know ? 😛

Obligatory 'Ah shit, here we go again' meme. They really are trying to sneak those stupidities at the last moment, huh ?
Not impressed. At. All.

It is stupid, pointless and shitty in every JRPG, it will be stupid, pointless and shitty in this one.
'Oh hey, this game that is totally gonna be serious and all, let's put some Persona anime crap in it', and later 'oh hey, let's put an onsen spa, because that is what we needed and it makes total sense.' Spectacular. Amazing.

I'm midly triggered by that crap, you have no idea. I actually have to stop to laugh at myself.

[Rose482]

10 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Guys, saying 'it makes more sense than in Fates', isn't really a good argument you know ?

Um, no. 

While I'm sure they added it for fan service reasons, and not for realistic reasons, but the fact it's not out of the realm of thoughts to have something like that in a academy makes it better in my opinion. 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Rose482

[Corrobin]

27 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Guys, saying 'it makes more sense than in Fates', isn't really a good argument you know ? 😛

Obligatory 'Ah shit, here we go again' meme. They really are trying to sneak those stupidities at the last moment, huh ?
Not impressed. At. All.

It is stupid, pointless and shitty in every JRPG, it will be stupid, pointless and shitty in this one.
'Oh hey, this game that is totally gonna be serious and all, let's put some Persona anime crap in it', and later 'oh hey, let's put an onsen spa, because that is what we needed and it makes total sense.' Spectacular. Amazing.

I'm midly triggered by that crap, you have no idea. I actually have to stop to laugh at myself.

 

Chill out, bro. It's just a room full of hot steam. It makes sense. Plenty of gyms have saunas that people go into after a workout. You're the one who's freaking out over this. Calm down.

[Druplesnubb]

Its funny how crazy some people are over this. I agree that if the reviewers who were weirded out by the tea parties didn't care to mention it, it's probably not a big deal.

[Cysx]

8 minutes ago, Druplesnubb said:

Its funny how crazy some people are over this. I agree that if the reviewers who were weirded out by the tea parties didn't care to mention it, it's probably not a big deal.

It's not even that, I don't think it's been mentioned anywhere, whether in the context of fanservice or not. I've heard of fishing, cooking, seminaries, roaming around, the calendar, and the dogs that thou cannot pet more than a dozen times, but this? Not once.

[Druplesnubb]

So you actually agree that it's not a big deal?