To Peer Beyond the Water's Surface, A Fates Story Analysis

[Ottservia]

32 minutes ago, Fates-Blade said:

You did a very good job on the analysis, thanks for releasing the next part! But:

I don't see how players could not have had faith in their judgment, what the players likely gathered was "Mikoto has told me the truth up till this point, so she seems trust worthy."

their was no, hint, that she was lying to you, Azura who is the guide/assitant of the paths oddly didn't say anything, or didn't have a feeling you shouldn't trust Mikoto and, choose the red door, also the Blue door didn't glow or anything as a hint, there wasn't two sensible options, unlike CH6.

Well looking at the dialogue in the chapter and how the events are presented. Mikoto even when she does tell you the truth is still a puppet of Anankos. A fact she herself states before the chapter begins and up until this point you’ve grown to distrust anyone who is said to be a puppet of his but this one’s a little different. It’s a pretty clever twist because well she builds trust but then ultimately takes it away should you rely on her too heavily. That trust made you let your guard down for which you are punished for it. I feel a quote from Danganronpa can help contextulize this a little better. “Belief without doubt is simply a lie” - Chiaki Nanami. It’s in the players best interest to trust Mikoto at first but one should always keep a healthy dose of doubt. A lesson we see with Anthony as well albeit to much lesser extent. You want to believe in her because she’s helped you before but you must doubt her as well because you can’t have belief without doubt.

[PeaceRibbon]

I must say the insight on the blue door red door chapter is really impressive in particular. I myself found it easy enough to pick blue only because of the whole eldritch spirit thing but I like how overall it tells the story through the game-play and let's the player inhabit Corrin's mind for a minute. Overall I think these analyses do a great job in exploring what the authors were getting at with this story, and it really is a shame how the final execution makes these themes and ideas less accessible to those not willing to put in the extra effort to study it. Fates will always be something of a guilty pleasure of mine because for all it's flaws and decisions which felt tailored to fan popularity alone, there lies in it a spark of passion for its wonderful premise I can't help but admire. Thanks again for the write ups! 

[Ottservia]

23 hours ago, PeaceRibbon said:

I must say the insight on the blue door red door chapter is really impressive in particular. I myself found it easy enough to pick blue only because of the whole eldritch spirit thing but I like how overall it tells the story through the game-play and let's the player inhabit Corrin's mind for a minute. Overall I think these analyses do a great job in exploring what the authors were getting at with this story, and it really is a shame how the final execution makes these themes and ideas less accessible to those not willing to put in the extra effort to study it. Fates will always be something of a guilty pleasure of mine because for all it's flaws and decisions which felt tailored to fan popularity alone, there lies in it a spark of passion for its wonderful premise I can't help but admire. Thanks again for the write ups! 

Well I’m glad you enjoyed reading them. I won’t say Fates’s story is perfect but it is a lot better than people give it credit for but unfortunately it’s held back by a few big problems that don’t allow the ideas to connect as they should. Fates has its problems but even despite that I think it tells a pretty good narrative 

[Punished Dayni]

Okay, I'll have to agree that I'm on the consensus with the Mikoto chapter. It kind of fits that Revelations makes trust a large part of its story threads.

Anankos, on the other hand, I'm not going to lie and say my biases do not help with trying to get your assessment. I can't say that Anankos feeling betrayed doesn't make sense, at least from the perspective of what I like to call DAnankos (the part of Anankos that'll degrade over time to be the main form we see in Fates itself). But in its own way, Anankos only ends up having that view as a result of his own perception of events. He starts to degrade and destroys part of his own creation. He had apparently seen this coming and had taken steps to have the king ready to at please slow it down. Yet this response doesn't seem to occur, people attack him (we don't know much, so for all we know a small group did so and most wouldn't have) and things thenescalate until he killed the person he'd entrusted to prevent this, thus leading to degradation being inevitable (but somehow not before a part of him sheds off, becomes HAnankos, sires Corrin and gets the Ylissians involved.). To me, it seems to suggest that Anankos took one act of betrayal and turned it into a condemnation of everything. Much of Anankos's issues frankly stem from things being unclear about the actions of the past. It's like despite the three routes trying to peer beneath the water's surface that the the action that snowballed into Fates is still as murky as ever.

Also for being a silent dragon he's kind of fucking loud considering his own voice, Betrayal's and Garon's (He did possess him after all).

But another question arises: how much of the biases and issues between Nohr and Hoshido are manufactured by him? It's kind of vague about pre-goo Garon and the extent of his good nature, there's an open question as to if Hoshido is as pure as written on the surface. All of this seems to support that the real monster is Fate's writing thanksforcomingtomytedtalk.

You said you might work on HoF. Still thinking about it?

[Ottservia]

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

Anankos, on the other hand, I'm not going to lie and say my biases do not help with trying to get your assessment. I can't say that Anankos feeling betrayed doesn't make sense, at least from the perspective of what I like to call DAnankos (the part of Anankos that'll degrade over time to be the main form we see in Fates itself). But in its own way, Anankos only ends up having that view as a result of his own perception of events. He starts to degrade and destroys part of his own creation. He had apparently seen this coming and had taken steps to have the king ready to at please slow it down. Yet this response doesn't seem to occur, people attack him (we don't know much, so for all we know a small group did so and most wouldn't have) and things thenescalate until he killed the person he'd entrusted to prevent this, thus leading to degradation being inevitable (but somehow not before a part of him sheds off, becomes HAnankos, sires Corrin and gets the Ylissians involved.). To me, it seems to suggest that Anankos took one act of betrayal and turned it into a condemnation of everything. Much of Anankos's issues frankly stem from things being unclear about the actions of the past. It's like despite the three routes trying to peer beneath the water's surface that the the action that snowballed into Fates is still as murky as ever.

One thing I’ve come to realize about the problems with Fates’s writing is the lack of world building and weak villain writing cause Hidden Truths does a fantastic job of explaining Anankos’s character but you do have a point in that it could’ve used a tad more detail. I choose to interpret the idea in the way that Anankos took that act of betrayal to the extreme cause he was already partially insane by that point so him interpreting the actions of people to be more drastic than they were makes sense at least to me. Beyond that it’s written in a way to suggest it was most of the people of valla who were angry with him or at least that’s the implication that I got.

 

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

But another question arises: how much of the biases and issues between Nohr and Hoshido are manufactured by him? It's kind of vague about pre-goo Garon and the extent of his good nature, there's an open question as to if Hoshido is as pure as written on the surface. All of this seems to support that the real monster is Fate's writing thanksforcomingtomytedtalk.

Here’s an interesting point which again creates issues a more fleshed out lore would’ve helped with. I think the story tries to paint Hoshido as uncaring and isolationist like they don’t care about much of what goes on outside of their bubble which makes Nohr angry. At least that’s the implication that’s found in Corrin and Azura’s supports on the matter. But yeah more detail was necessary.

 

4 hours ago, Dayni said:

You said you might work on HoF. Still thinking about it?

I said I was and I still might. I was just taking a bit of break from fates because playing 3 games in a row can lead to some burnout though I might tackle it this week though.

[SoulWeaver]

Incredibly late to the party, but I'd like to add some input.

On 12/31/2019 at 10:17 PM, Fates-Blade said:

even the Nohrian children and Corrin believe Garon is still alive just not well

On 12/29/2019 at 8:19 PM, Ottservia said:

Interesting, I can see where you can make that argument in regards to Conquest but in birthright I don't really see it. Would you mind elaborating?

I'mma refer you both to this Chapter script. One Nohrian royal learning the truth about Garon(I swear everyone forgets that that little plot device appears in both BR and CQ), one instance of Azura admitting to deceiving Corrin in Birthright.

On 1/15/2020 at 10:21 PM, Fates-Blade said:

I don't see how players could not have had faith in their judgment, what the players likely gathered was "Mikoto has told me the truth up till this point, so she seems trust worthy."

their was no, hint, that she was lying to you, Azura who is the guide/assitant of the paths oddly didn't say anything, or didn't have a feeling you shouldn't trust Mikoto and, choose the red door, also the Blue door didn't glow or anything as a hint, there wasn't two sensible options, unlike CH6.

There are two sensible options because Mikoto contradicts herself - she tells you at the start that all the blue doors are safe, then tells you to open a red door. Either trust her initial statement or what she says to you in the moment, both opposing each other yet both equally potentially valid as coming from an apparently trustworthy source. I actually read her telling me to open the red door and was like 'hold up, hold up, you said all the blue doors were the safe ones when I opened the map...I'm...sticking with blue' and was promptly rewarded for noticing something off in her manner during the red door moment. As for Azura, keep in mind she grew up in Hoshido and trusted Mikoto all her life herself, she's much more attached to Mikoto than even to Arete, so it could be Azura herself chose to trust Mikoto as one trusts the loving mother who raised them.

On 9/3/2019 at 4:51 PM, 0 Def Cleric said:

The Dragon-Slaying Plot Weapon itself has no reason to exist; why it is there is never explained, and why it can slay Anankos is never explained as well. Even within the same game, there are less plot-contrived weapons; the princes' weapons of Hoshido and Nohr are said to be blessings from the kingdoms' respective dragons. It is simply there to make Corrin the only one who can truly save the day, thus existing as a embodiment of Fates' discarding of plot for the theme that "you must find what is hidden", "you" being specifically the player. 
A story with good themes and a good story don't have to be mutually exclusive, but you'd certainly think that they are, given Fates' sorry excuse for a plot. 
September's effortposting quota has been met. 

I'mma point you at the Rainbow Sage's one line he says in every path: I who forged the sacred blade, I who committed the great sin, I who wove the divine colors...colors weave into a Seal of Flames lol. The Rainbow Sage is also one of the First Dragons, alongside Anankos and the Dawn and Dusk Dragons of Hoshido and Nohr. Sadly we don't get to know anything about the other Dragons, but that's semi-moot - contrary to your comment, Yato and the four Divine Weapons were actually made by the Rainbow Sage according to his wiki page, to recruit humanity so he could beat the other First Dragons because it's Fire Emblem, there always have to be Dragons at war. While this doesn't explain how the Yato got stuck inside a statue in Shirasagi Square, it does explain why it can kill Anankos - the Rainbow Sage forged these weapons so he could beat the other First Dragons, and probably overpowered the Omega Yato by mistake.

As for the actual stuff, not bad, Otts, not bad. I may have more to say in the future, but right now I'm late for a dentist appointment ick.

[Ottservia]

This one was certainly a long time coming. @Dayni @SoulWeaver

Part 5: Trusting the next generation

Spoiler

“In endless dreams, countless realms collide

Hope falls only to rise like the changing tide

But all dreams come to an end,

Just whispers on the wind.

 

Sing with me one last time, for light’s sacrifice,

Endless dawn came but not without a price,

Lost in the waves there glimmers a pale blue stone.

I think of you all alone”

 

Alone you sit upon an endless sea. You are lost and alone in a rainstorm of your own thoughts. Memories come and go with the crashing waves. What you once thought was real was nothing more than an illusion painted once more on the water’s surface. Flower petals float at your side drifting with the ocean’s gray waves. Some are of cherry blossoms while others are of a black rose. You set out on a journey for the truth, but for what reason? For what purpose did you decide to journey across this endless sea? The answer seems lost to you among the storm of memories. You begin to wonder if all you’ve been through was nothing more than a dream. Did you really find the truth? Or was it nothing more than a dream masquerading as reality? Memories of those events begin to blend together as you once again continue to drift along this endless sea.

 

Heirs of Fate is an interesting little side story centering on all the child characters in the game. Just because it’s DLC, it doesn’t mean that this story can’t act as a natural extension of the themes found in the main game. Fates is a story centering on themes of trust, betrayal, deception, and truth. It’s a story that explores what it truly means to have faith in others and to overcome doubt in order to trust those close to you. Heirs of Fate is a small little side story that acts as an extension while at the same time putting its own unique spin on them.

 

In my analysis of the main game’s story, I didn’t really talk about the second-gen characters and how they relate to the story’s overall message. The reason for the being is that unlike the awakening kids who represent the failures of their parents(a very key thematically relevant plot point in awakening to which the story wouldn’t work without), the fates kids are more or less inconsequential to the game’s overall narrative. Even so, they can still sort of fit into the core of fates’s narrative as explored in heirs of fate. I said before that one of the driving forces of Fates’s conflict is bias which is shown several times throughout the narrative. Hoshido is biased against Nohr while Nohr is biased against Hoshido for surface level reasons. Heirs of Fate very much continues to build off of this idea of bias and distrust with the children. At first, it’s fairly standard with Anankos trapping the kids in an illusion forcing them to see each other as Vallite soldiers. The very same soldiers that invaded their deeprealms and killed/defeated(the story is a little unclear about that) their parents. He once again manipulates their biases to force them to fight one another while mixing in some of his own soldiers for added insurance. It’s very similar to chapter 13 of revelations where Anankos creates a situation where both sides are quick to jump to conclusions based on surface-level information. The two groups of kids only fight each other because all they see are more mindless soldiers, not actual humans. The illusion is only able to break once they begin to realize that some of the soldiers are acting somewhat differently from some of the other ones. This is also shown through gameplay. The Ai of the enemy children you fight act very differently from the generic vallite soldiers. It’s there to establish that some of these soldiers are different. They’re not like Anankos’s soldiers. They’re actually human. Even when the illusion shatters for a moment due to male Kana’s efforts, Kana still, if only for a moment, opts to kill them because he doesn’t know them. All he knows about them is that they’ve been trying to kill him the entire time. He makes assumptions based on past experiences. All he really remembers is that a bunch of weird soldiers killed his parents and they just happen to look similar. This idea of distrust due to not knowing the other person works the other way as well with the other royal siblings and their retainers. Which leads me into how Heirs of Fate truly extends on those themes of bias and trust.

 

One of the things about bias and trust that heirs of fate leans into is that it can be generational. In that, you’re more willing to trust someone your parents also trust. This is the reason Forrest, Siegbert, Shiro, and Kiragi are instantly able to recognize their retainers and each other despite being, more or less, strangers to each other. Kiragi and Shiro, as well as Forrest and Siegbert, are cousins so of course they’re gonna know each other right off the bat and trust each other. The same goes for their retainers. Soleil’s father served Siegberts so of course they’re gonna recognize each other right away. The same goes for the other retainers like Hisame, Asugi, Nina, and Ophelia. As for the other characters like Percy, Velouria, Selkie, Caeldori, etc. well that can be explained by their fathers knowing each other meaning they are not immediately viewed as enemies because their parents knew each other from the war. Once again showcasing that bias and trust is generational. The hoshidian kids view the nohrians as enemies immediately because they are all from the world of birthright whereas the nohrians are from conquest. This means there is no possible way for them to know each other in their respective worlds so they view whoever they, themselves, or their parents do not know as enemies. Their parents distrusted each other so they’re gonna distrust each other. This becomes a point of conflict even after the illusion is dispelled where they discover they are from the two opposing worlds of Birthright and Conquest respectively. In birthright, Xander and Elise are dead while in Conquest Ryoma and Takumi are the ones who perish. This breeds distrust because Shiro begins making baseless assumptions that Siegberts Father killed his. Siegbert, of course, refutes in kind. They simply can’t trust related to a man that has killed someone close to them. This thinking, of course, is wrong to which they soon realize after being separated by Arete and forced to defend themselves. They are able to realize they aren’t their parents and that when going gets tough that they are there for each other. They need to overcome their doubt and trust each other in order to defeat Anankos.

 

Before I discuss Anankos in this story, I’d like to take a moment to discuss the other running theme in heirs of fate. That being, Memories and how interlinked they are with life and truth. Throughout this story, the idea of gaining and losing memories is emphasized quite a bit. Azura at one point says that one’s memories are as precious as one’s own life. She even says they could be interchangeable. To an extent, this is true as when someone dies all that’s really left of them are the memories those left behind have of them. They live on in the memories of others. one of the core driving forces fueling the conflict between the kids and the vallite soldiers are the memories of what those soldiers did to their parents. The memories of their parents symbolized in the weapons they carry as mementos. Things used to remember their parents.  No one is truly gone until they are forgotten. Their parents aren’t truly dead because they still remember them. It’s their memory of their parents that allows them to restore things to the way they were after defeating Anankos. This even somewhat connects to the trust theme as well. If you never remembered meeting someone, can you truly say that you ever did meet them? Likewise, if two people have contradicting accounts of an event, which one is true? If you don’t remember something happening, then how can you be sure it truly happened? This is one of the reasons the two sides don’t trust each other even after the illusion is dispelled. They each have different memories of how the war in their worlds played out simply because they are from different worlds. The war played out differently in each one. Their memories contradict each other and thus they can’t agree which means they can’t trust each other. Of course, as mentioned earlier, they are able to overcome this but that was a point of conflict.

 

Now with that out of the way, Let’s discuss how these two themes more or less come together with Shigure, Anankos, and the Yato. Let’s start with Shigure who starts off as immediately trustworthy because of the shared connections the children’s parents have with Azura. He is able to help break the illusion and get them to work together. However, as the group nears Anankos’s castle, Shigure begins to act a little weird which is something female Kana picks up on which causes her to cast doubt on Shigure’s intentions. Those doubts are ultimately proven right when they enter the castle, at least somewhat. Before the Kanas can awaken the Omega Yato, Shigure stops them. He uses his song to paralyze them and states he didn’t view them as trustworthy allies but rather tools used to help him reach Anankos. He didn’t, or rather, refused to view them as allies as they were from a different world than his despite looking the exact same. They may look and act the exact same as he remembers them but he’s convinced himself that these people are strangers and not the friends he remembers because they are from different worlds. However, in a way, he’s contradicting himself because he still cares for them as if they were his friends and doesn’t want them to get involved and possibly killed. He even asks for them to remember him after he’s sacrificed himself which is contradictory because he doesn’t acknowledge his memories of them. He asks them to trust him with this task but he states he never trusted them which is yet another contradiction. All this is to say that Shigure is wrong in trying to defeat Anankos on his own. Only through trust in others can Anankos truly be defeated symbolized through the Omega Yato. The reason it didn’t awaken when the two Kanas tried the first time was that Kana and Shigure didn’t trust each other. They didn’t have faith in one another and it is for that reason that the Omega Yato never awakened. The Omega Yato, as I stated in my revelation analysis, symbolizes the trust they all have each other despite their doubts. Overcoming one’s own doubt to create trust which is what fates’s story is truly about. After realizing this, the other kids warp back to Shigure to help him and urge him to place his trust in them. After some back and forth, he finally does so which allows the Omega Yato to finally awaken. They pay the price of the memories made on this adventure in exchange for Shigure giving up his own life to the song’s curse. Now armed with the Omega Yato and the song’s fourth verse they are now ready to face down Anankos and put him down.

 

Speaking of Anankos, let’s talk about him. Anankos’s goal here was to try and find a world containing the ideal version of Valla that he remembers. The kingdom of Valla he once knew before going mad. A valla where humans and dragons can have faith in one another and live in harmony. However, he was never able to find it because he, himself, lost faith in humanity, therefore, his ideal version of Valla only exists within his memory as nothing more than a dream. How can he expect to coexist with humans if he cannot trust them? The kingdom of Valla is gone due to his own actions. He lost faith in humanity and killed all those who would trust and remember him. In his madness, he betrayed the very foundation of trust and harmony of which Valla was built. The curse he placed on the land doomed it to be forgotten. Anankos is the forgotten god silently ruling over a forgotten kingdom. Anankos humans are nothing without dragons ruling over them. He has no faith in their ability to be independent like that of an overprotective parent unwilling to see the next generation outgrow them. The fear of being forgotten and abandoned by those he helped grow drove him mad. In the end, ironically enough, it was his own actions that Valla is now nothing a shell of its former self. A wasteland of a kingdom forever to be forgotten. It was because of his inability to trust humans to outgrow their need of him that he lost. He lost to children whose parents trusted to succeed where they had failed.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ottservia

[Punished Dayni]

Eyyyyyy! Finally time for best Fates story.

5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

The very same soldiers that invaded their deeprealms and killed/defeated(the story is a little unclear about that) their parents.

Considering all the fathers but Azura and the Corrins show up in the final chapter it's implied that Anankos made them into Purple realm goons, so I'd say dead.

8 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

This becomes a point of conflict even after the illusion is dispelled where they discover they are from the two opposing worlds of Birthright and Conquest respectively.

Isn't it implied none of them shared a world? This wouldn't mean they're not from Conquest Vs Birthright worlds, just that I remember the implication that none of them came from the exact same world. 

14 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Before I discuss Anankos in this story, I’d like to take a moment to discuss the other running theme in heirs of fate. That being, Memories and how interlinked they are with life and truth. Throughout this story, the idea of gaining and losing memories is emphasized quite a bit. Azura at one point says that one’s memories are as precious as one’s own life. She even says they could be interchangeable. To an extent, this is true as when someone dies all that’s really left of them are the memories those left behind have of them. They live on in the memories of others. one of the core driving forces fueling the conflict between the kids and the vallite soldiers are the memories of what those soldiers did to their parents. The memories of their parents symbolized in the weapons they carry as mementos. Things used to remember their parents

So much as the gems Opheila and Soleil happen to have are a device to get them back to Shigure, they should also fit the memory theme, right?

12 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

However, as the group nears Anankos’s castle, Shigure begins to act a little weird which is something female Kana picks up on which causes her to cast doubt on Shigure’s intentions. Those doubts are ultimately proven right when they enter the castle, at least somewhat. Before the Kanas can awaken the Omega Yato, Shigure stops them. He uses his song to paralyze them and states he didn’t view them as trustworthy allies but rather tools used to help him reach Anankos. He didn’t, or rather, refused to view them as allies as they were from a different world than his despite looking the exact same. They may look and act the exact same as he remembers them but he’s convinced himself that these people are strangers and not the friends he remembers because they are from different worlds. However, in a way, he’s contradicting himself because he still cares for them as if they were his friends and doesn’t want them to get involved and possibly killed. He even asks for them to remember him after he’s sacrificed himself which is contradictory because he doesn’t acknowledge his memories of them. He asks them to trust him with this task but he states he never trusted them which is yet another contradiction. All this is to say that Shigure is wrong in trying to defeat Anankos on his own. Only through trust in others can Anankos truly be defeated symbolized through the Omega Yato.

Yeah, at least it makes Shigure Fates's best protagonist imo.

Naive sure, but his mistrust is quite related to the themes as you mention.

12 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Speaking of Anankos, let’s talk about him. Anankos’s goal here was to try and find a world containing the ideal version of Valla that he remembers. The kingdom of Valla he once knew before going mad. A valla where humans and dragons can have faith in one another and live in harmony. However, he was never able to find it because he, himself, lost faith in humanity, therefore, his ideal version of Valla only exists within his memory as nothing more than a dream. How can he expect to coexist with humans if he cannot trust them? The kingdom of Valla is gone due to his own actions. He lost faith in humanity and killed all those who would trust and remember him. In his madness, he betrayed the very foundation of trust and harmony of which Valla was built. The curse he placed on the land doomed it to be forgotten. Anankos is the forgotten god silently ruling over a forgotten kingdom. Anankos humans are nothing without dragons ruling over them. He has no faith in their ability to be independent like that of an overprotective parent unwilling to see the next generation outgrow them. The fear of being forgotten and abandoned by those he helped grow drove him mad. In the end, ironically enough, it was his own actions that Valla is now nothing a shell of its former self. A wasteland of a kingdom forever to be forgotten. It was because of his inability to trust humans to outgrow their need of him that he lost. He lost to children whose parents trusted to succeed where they had failed.

This of course being why he is trying to pull all the universes together to find it. Once again Anankos just can't stop himself and ruins everything as a result. Oh and the song resets this whole universe decay.

Into the Spiderverse did it so much better.

[Ottservia]

10 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Isn't it implied none of them shared a world? This wouldn't mean they're not from Conquest Vs Birthright worlds, just that I remember the implication that none of them came from the exact same world. 

It isn’t implied as much as out right stated by Shigure but it is that they are all from the the world of birthright just different birthrights y’know like different save files and such or at least that’s the implication I got cause in different save files they can have different parents.

 

12 minutes ago, Dayni said:

42 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

 

So much as the gems Opheila and Soleil happen to have are a device to get them back to Shigure, they should also fit the memory theme, right?

Yep the crystals fit. I just didn’t feel the need to mention it.

 

13 minutes ago, Dayni said:

This of course being why he is trying to pull all the universes together to find it. Once again Anankos just can't stop himself and ruins everything as a result. Oh and the song resets this whole universe decay.

Anankos’s defeat is strangely fitting because he refuses to entrust humans to live on without him so he gets defeated by his own children in Corrin and Azura(as Azura has Anankos’s blood). And well in Heirs of Fate it’s Kana and Shigure. It’s interesting.

 

also this is a thing that exists:

 

[Punished Dayni]

13 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

It isn’t implied as much as out right stated by Shigure but it is that they are all from the the world of birthright just different birthrights y’know like different save files and such or at least that’s the implication I got cause in different save files they can have different parents.

Sorry, I just wasn't sure if I was reading that in your analysis, because I remembered that being the case.

16 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Anankos’s defeat is strangely fitting because he refuses to entrust humans to live on without him so he gets defeated by his own children in Corrin and Azura(as Azura has Anankos’s blood). And well in Heirs of Fate it’s Kana and Shigure. It’s interesting.

That being pushed back against by his children is a point that really makes Birthright feel a little out of place come to think of it. Conquest and Revelations both deal in the next generation having to remove the stickler of the previous generation which Birthright treats entirely as an external threat.

[Ottservia]

14 minutes ago, Dayni said:

That being pushed back against by his children is a point that really makes Birthright feel a little out of place come to think of it. Conquest and Revelations both deal in the next generation having to remove the stickler of the previous generation which Birthright treats entirely as an external threat.

Birthright can be kinda viewed as children staying loyal to tradition and being somewhat controlled by the previous generation. Cause in Birthright your not really removing a piece of the old generation as you kinda embracing I guess. I dunno if that’s the right way to put it.

 

16 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Sorry, I just wasn't sure if I was reading that in your analysis, because I remembered that being the case.

To be fair I only really mentioned it briefly

[Anathaco]

6 hours ago, Ottservia said:

It isn’t implied as much as out right stated by Shigure but it is that they are all from the the world of birthright just different birthrights y’know like different save files and such or at least that’s the implication I got cause in different save files they can have different parents.

It fits my personal experience at least, considering I only ever got like one kid per save file lol.

Anyway, this was a nice analysis. Heirs of Fate was honestly my favourite part of Fates anyway so I'm glad to see you cover it.

The one thing I can add is how the whole memory theme links to the ending, with the whole "It's good to meet you" bit. With Shigure and the Kanas in the end credit scene seeming to recognise each other, it basically says that memories are MORE important than life, because it was supposed to be a trade between their memories and Shigure's life, but some of them seemed to keep their memories- i.e. they didn't need everyone's memories because they were that powerful and important.