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(SPOILERS) Three Houses General Spoilers Thread

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Just beat Claude's and Marianne's Paralogue, there are some interesting lore implications. Macuil is transformed into a Monster/Dragon and calls Claude's family his enemies, and says that Byleth has the "stench of sothis" on him. I originally thought maybe he meant Almyran, but it's clear he meant Riegan since he drops a Riegan crest weapon.

Maurice, the original holder of the Beast Crest, and originally one of the 10 elites, calls Byleth "the holder of the sword of the king" and asks for liberation from his current Beast form.

What does this mean? Did Macuil and Maurice turn against Sothis/Seiros, which is why they are stuck in Monstrous Forms? Flayn calls him her uncle, so why is Flayn/Seteth not stuck as monsters, just Macuil?

There is 0 doubt in my mind Maurice was definitely on Nemesis's side. But were all of the elites on his side too?

Edited by IzzyFresh

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18 hours ago, Kliss88 said:

I'm curious about this. Are there teammates that die if you dont support them or do their Paralogues?

Spoiler

Rhea - church route only

Sothis 

Lysithea - any paired ending is enough iirc. 

Paralogues are unrelated. 

Edited by Tenzen12

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3 hours ago, IzzyFresh said:

Just beat Claude's and Marianne's Paralogue, there are some interesting lore implications. Macuil is transformed into a Monster/Dragon and calls Claude's family his enemies, and says that Byleth has the "stench of sothis" on him. I originally thought maybe he meant Almyran, but it's clear he meant Riegan since he drops a Riegan crest weapon.

Maurice, the original holder of the Beast Crest, and originally one of the 10 elites, calls Byleth "the holder of the sword of the king" and asks for liberation from his current Beast form.

What does this mean? Did Macuil and Maurice turn against Sothis/Seiros, which is why they are stuck in Monstrous Forms? Flayn calls him her uncle, so why is Flayn/Seteth not stuck as monsters, just Macuil?

There is 0 doubt in my mind Maurice was definitely on Nemesis's side. But were all of the elites on his side too?

Spoiler

Yup, the 10 Elites were actually Nemesis's generals (and presumably the source of the other red lights in the opening sequence).

 

Seiros went for some revisionist history and made them out to be heroes to make sure Crests became accepted for her other plans.

 

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I'm sorry to keep filling the thread with questions, but I keep getting more. Golden Deer route big spoilers

Spoiler

Tv tropes says you can spare Edelgard. I don't remember that being an option, do they mean killing someone else to finish her map, are they just wrong?

 

Edited by Brimney

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Here's a question since some may have already beaten the game.

What's that Sauna thing people were talking about before? It is within the datamined files as text and some say it appeared in preview footage. Is it a cut/disabled feature, or perhaps it will simply be added in a future update?

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2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

I am not completely sure but if I remember correctly 

  Reveal hidden contents

You can spare her in GD route. She then get killed by Dedue. 

 

Ah, good to know, thank you. Now I have to ask - how, if you know? I was not given the option in my play through. 

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23 hours ago, MrMetroid said:

Apparently this didn't take the first time - or at least I can't find it anymore. So I've been forced to basically retype everything I said the first time; sorry in advance for double-post xP

  Reveal hidden contents

But that there is the issue; by your own stated logic, Sothis and Byleth do fit that criteria as is - Sothis is someone from the past who was reborn/given new life within another vessel - in the Golden Deer route, Rhea explicitly states that that Nemesis crafted his personal Crest Stone, the Crest of Flames, from Sothis' heart and carved the Sword of the Creator from her bones; she'd have to be physically dead if there was a confirmed corpse Nemesis looted/pillaged, agreed? Likewise, the person acting as her "reincarnation" ends up having to carry the weight of her legacy; In Byleth's case, it's through inheriting her power and the conflict she was part of. Byleth rather implicitly has to suffer the effects of Sothis' life and choices by finishing the conflict she was part/subject to of against "those who slither in the dark" and in the effects her maddened daughter Seiros wrought. By the definitions you've listed from TvTropes, Byleth would in fact qualify as a "reincarnation" to Sothis.

Likewise, the "new and separate soul" argument doesn't refute distinction either since, like I said before, "reincarnation" doesn't necessitate there only be a single soul in play - Avatar: The Last Airbender shows each inheritor of the Avatar's powers has a separate spirit and personality all their own, yet it's still classified as "reincarnation" as the power/role is continually passed down to a different individual who can share all the memories of their predecessors; RWBY shows Ozpin/Ozma's soul constantly reincarnate into and gradually merge together with different individuals, starting as two distinctly separate personas with their own thoughts and feelings. And that's not even addressing how Byleth themselves could be argued to not in fact be "a new and separate soul" - if anything, they could be argued as a by-product of attempts to rebirth Sothis, since Byleth's mother was effectively a failed pseudo-clone of Sothis herself. 

It doesn't qualify as "Sharing a Body" because the body isn't being shared - Sothis doesn't exhibit any control of her own over Byleth's body; if anything, she exists more as a source of added power rather than a shared owner. It's not a 50/50 split and Byleth's the one making all the choices on what to do with their shared life - Sothis behaves more like a spiritual advisor rather than flat-out sharing the body like, say, Ozpin/Ozma with Oscar Pine in RWBY in which they can switch between who's in control. It qualifies more as "reincarnation" not just because Sothis' spirit was anchored into Byleth but because Byleth was uniquely comparable with her due to being her descendent - and by the end, the two merge their souls' power together to effectively make Byleth a literal reincarnation of Sothis' power. She provides power and commentary to Byleth, but little more than that - that makes her closer to a passenger in Byleth's body rather than actually sharing it with them, and that in and of itself is only because they're a compatible descendent of hers rather than being able to merge with just anyone. 

In turn, it doesn't qualify as "Symbiotic Possession" since, unlike cases such as Talion and Celebrimbor from Shadow of Mordor, they aren't dependent on each-other to live - they may have one life to lose between them, but Sothis was existing as a disembodied/deceased spirit long before Byleth came around and the Black Eagles route flat-out confirms that Byleth is capable of living without having Sothis bonded to them. It doesn't qualify as "symbiotic" because there's no actual "symbiosis" at play - mutual cooperation, yes, but not actual symbiosis. Hell, I'd actually argue "symbiosis" is even the wrong word for Talion and Celebrimbor (or at least just for Celebrimbor) since only one half of that pair (Talion) actually needs the other to live - Celebrimbor could switch out with anyone so long as they were willing to host him; a sharp contrast to Sothis and Byleth, who lack the ability to willingly extract themselves from each-other. "Reincarnation" isn't the same as "possession" because the latter is simply invading another's body, whereas the former is being returned to the mortal world (be it naturally or otherwise) through something that shares an actual connection or resemblance with you - in this case, a shared bloodline.

And in the case of bloodlines, it's honestly anything but "irrelevant" in this instance - if anything, it's the thing that makes Byleth and Sothis' case fit more  as "reincarnation" verses any other type. Rebirth or returning to the world through bloodline relatives is something more closely associated with reincarnation than it is with others - case in point being the series Naruto, with Naruto and Sasuke being revealed as reincarnations of brother-inheritors Asura and Indra through a shared genealogy spanning many generations (including First Hokage Hashirama Senju and Madara Uchiha); that too was classified as being "reincarnation" even though Naruto and Sauske were each their own person different from their ancestors. Having a direct bloodline tie to one's ancestor is arguably more of a common marker to infer "reincarnation" happened than not - what made Byleth compatible to inherit Sothis' soul was the genealogy of their mother, just as it seemingly was with Rhea and Seiros. Which in turn is something demonstrably different from either Robin or Julius' cases of possession - Robin was not related to Grima; they were related to people Grima marked and specifically bred to have a body strong enough to accept Grima as a vessel. Julius was not related to Loptous; he was related to people Loptous infused his blood into as part of a magical pact. None of the ones you listed were actual family to the ones inhabiting them like Sothis was to Byleth - and that's to say nothing of the fact that, unlike Loptous and Grima, Sothis was actually deceased rather than taking a vessel for more power, as I mentioned earlier.

Honestly, the fact of the matter is that media seems to have a much broader/less constrained view of what tropes can apply to - like I've said repeatedly before, it doesn't matter if you think my definition of it "is not universally accepted", because not only is that the same case for your own views but it in and of itself is a moot/irrelevant statement. Again, what you and I personally believe is not the point - what TvTropes does or doesn't accept under the umbrella of a trope is the point. And given how it accepts cases like Aang with past Avatars or Oscar Pine with Ozpin/Ozma as being "reincarnation", Byleth and Sothis would logically fit there as well. It doesn't qualify as possession (neither demonic nor symbiotic) since Sothis didn't choose to invade Byleth's body, nor do they exercise any control over them or their actions or even seemingly exist outside of a source of advisement and extra power.

 

I really thought we were done with this, man. We disagree. You still haven't convinced me. I still haven't convinced you. That's it.

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12 minutes ago, Onestep said:

I really thought we were done with this, man. We disagree. You still haven't convinced me. I still haven't convinced you. That's it.

...I think you must have missed the first line in my comment, dude. Which, to reitterate, was "Apparently this didn't take the first time - or at least I can't find it anymore. So I've been forced to basically retype everything I said the first time; sorry in advance for double-post xP" - I couldn't find the counter I'd originally typed/remembered posting, so I redid it. That's all there is to it... though that being said, I also have to repeat I wasn't trying to convince you of anything in the first place - merely pointing out why TvTropes' iterations disagreed with you.  ^_^;

Edited by MrMetroid

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53 minutes ago, MrMetroid said:

...I think you must have missed the first line in my comment, dude. Which, to reitterate, was "Apparently this didn't take the first time - or at least I can't find it anymore. So I've been forced to basically retype everything I said the first time; sorry in advance for double-post xP" - I couldn't find the counter I'd originally typed/remembered posting, so I redid it. That's all there is to it... though that being said, I also have to repeat I wasn't trying to convince you of anything in the first place - merely pointing out why TvTropes' iterations disagreed with you.  ^_^;

Whatever, man. You clearly exist in a different world and headspace to me. I disagree with basically everything you've said at this point, including that last paragraph you wrote, but go crazy, I guess.

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Something I don't understand is

Spoiler

Dimitri vision in Byleth's path. What's this vision about? Implying Dimitri isn't dead yet? Or that Byleth could see dead people because he's progenitor god?

Dimitri also mentions Dedue and others died because he's mistake. But Dedue actually shows up helping you to kill Edelgard later. (I kept him alive by using Flayn rescue him, but no further plot with him afterward.)

 

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1 minute ago, Onestep said:

Whatever, man. You clearly exist in a different world and headspace to me. I disagree with basically everything you've said at this point, including that last paragraph you wrote, but go crazy, I guess.

I'm just sayin, dude; you didn't even have to reply anymore. I only posted that last one because I couldn't find the one I originally wrote - dunno if I deleted by accident when editing it back then or if it never took the first time, but either way I was just doing what you yourself said you did; using a separate comment to and in/finish what I started in the first one since edit-timeout wouldn't let me go back, rather than trying to restart it. Certainly it's nothing to be snide/rude about, no? ^_^;

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3 minutes ago, MrMetroid said:

I'm just sayin, dude; you didn't even have to reply anymore. I only posted that last one because I couldn't find the one I originally wrote - dunno if I deleted by accident when editing it back then or if it never took the first time, but either way I was just doing what you yourself said you did; using a separate comment to and in/finish what I started in the first one since edit-timeout wouldn't let me go back, rather than trying to restart it. Certainly it's nothing to be snide/rude about, no? ^_^;

Oh, fair enough in that respect.

Edited by Onestep

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Spoiler

So, I'm on chapter 6, and I've gotten to the point where I have to go to Jeritza's room. It says if I go there now, the month will end. Should I do it now, or should I take some time and wait?

 

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17 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

Something I don't understand is

  Hide contents

Dimitri vision in Byleth's path. What's this vision about? Implying Dimitri isn't dead yet? Or that Byleth could see dead people because he's progenitor god?

Dimitri also mentions Dedue and others died because he's mistake. But Dedue actually shows up helping you to kill Edelgard later. (I kept him alive by using Flayn rescue him, but no further plot with him afterward.)

 

Spoiler

Not sure about the first one, but I know the answer to the second one; it's because Dimitri genuinely believed he'd died. When Cornelia sides with Edelgard after the Empire's attack on Garrag Mach and puts the Kingdom of Faerghus' capital under Empire control, Dimitri gets framed for a murder and sentenced to execution so as to cement Cornelia & Edelgard's control of his kingdom. However, Dedue breaks Dimitri out before he can be killed, but is seemingly killed himself while holding off the guards so that Dimitri can escape - something that helps contribute to Dimitri's mounting despair over the next five years. But I believe if you complete Dedue's side-quest/paralogue in the first parts of the game, he gets saved by his fellow people of Duscar and nursed back to health until eventually rejoining Dimitri in "Chapter 16: The Rose Colored River" (I say "I believe" because I've heard of people who did the paralogue and still couldn't get him back).

If he survives, then in the Blue Lions route he rejoins as a unit; in the Golden Deer path he will reappear after Edelgard's defeat and kill her if Byleth spares her life, taking revenge for her killing Dimitri. 

 

Edited by MrMetroid

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6 minutes ago, MetalAmethyst said:
  Hide contents

So, I'm on chapter 6, and I've gotten to the point where I have to go to Jeritza's room. It says if I go there now, the month will end. Should I do it now, or should I take some time and wait?

 

You miss the rest of the month's instruction and free days, so hold off.

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Man, this got knocked to the third page already. Anyways, I finished the Black Eagle's (Edelgard's) route last night. I tried to remain somewhat spoiler free, but read on at your own discretion!

So, after beating the route, I definitely see why people say "That's it?" and "Where's the payoff" as there is no real epilogue. After beating the final boss, there's some narration, the S support confession, and then straight to character endings and the credits. Also, there may have been the expectation of fighting against "Those Who Slither In The Dark," but they are simply a footnote and are handled off-screen in the endings.
There's also some unanswered questions. While they could be handwaved away by saying "just play the other routes," it would have been nice it they were explained on all of them. Different perspectives can give slightly different answers on how they look at things, and some players may not get around to playing all the routes.

Now, Edelgard's route does end logically fighting against Rhea and the Church.The progression is also logical as we go from battle to battle, but I suppose it would have been nice to expand on the story arcs against the Golden Deer and Blue Lions as well as finish off TWSITD after Rhea. Both the Golden Deer and Blue Lions get 2 maps each while the rest is focused on the Church, which has 3.
Given how Edelgard's route has 18 chapters instead of 21 or 22, there is space to expand. I would love to have one more chapter each for the Blue Lions and Golden Deer, and then maybe one or two chapters to finish off TWSITD after handling the Church. I guess the main concern is how one hypes up battles after fighting Rhea, but adding a closing act would have been better instead of ending it abruptly on a "high note." If Three Houses had a proper postgame, handling TWSITD can be put there to at least close things out (so everything still "ends" after Rhea, but loading the postgame file will allow the player to finish off TWSITD and mess around with postgame stuff). Sadly, there is no post-game content that I am aware of. Just New Game +...

Despite all that, I still loved my time with Edelgard's route. It's going to be weird to start from the beginning and play a different route as I gotten attached to my Black Eagle students. While a part of me just wants to recruit all of them, for first time playthroughs I'm trying to keep my recruitment low so I can still feel the despair of war. Lysithea will always be spared though, and I plan on recruiting Petra for my next run (Blue Lions). Hopefully at some point players will figure out all of the different combinations so I can listen to them without having to play through a million times.

* * * * *

Overall, I suppose Three Houses will end up being one of those games where the "journey matters more than the destination." Part One does a nice job of setting up things and ramping up the tension for the last 4 chapters. Part II, at least for Edelgard's, did feel logical in progression. However, it felted rushed and I wanted more, as 7 chapters split across 3 factions wasn't enough for me. It also didn't deal with TWSITD, which is somewhat of a bummer.

Now I'm off to play the Blue Lions to see a different perspective on things. It's going to be weird having a different set of characters, but we'll see what happens next!

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On 7/31/2019 at 12:11 PM, Brimney said:

I'm sorry to keep filling the thread with questions, but I keep getting more. Golden Deer route big spoilers

  Reveal hidden contents

Tv tropes says you can spare Edelgard. I don't remember that being an option, do they mean killing someone else to finish her map, are they just wrong?

 

 

On 7/31/2019 at 3:16 PM, Brimney said:

Ah, good to know, thank you. Now I have to ask - how, if you know? I was not given the option in my play through. 

Choose the option that’s something about “couldn’t we walk the same path as her?” during the pre-battle dialogue. I think.

EDIT: Also question: On the Church route, whose “side” do you take in the big battle between the armies at Gronder Field? Or do you battle all three?

Edited by Moonlit Knight

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Big ol spoilers 

Just finished chapter 10. There will be spoilers for all routes below 

Spoiler

Damn Edelgard I know you’re the flame emperor and you’ve seen some shit but can’t you let me mourn my dead dad for literally a day? Christ girl, have some empathy. 

Also I swore I did choose that for GD, but oh well, maybe I misremembered. Next time I’ll make sure! Thank you! 

Edited by Brimney

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I’m playing Blue Lions route and getting really close to the time skip. I’ve recruited all possible students save Bernadette, Casper, Raphael, and Ferdinand who I’m still hoping to try and win over though his B support is locked behind ‘it will take some time before you can deepen this bond’. 

Will I eventually get all my recruited students back to use after the time skip? I’ve read vastly conflicting comments/mentions from others and would like to know for certain one way or another. 

I put in a lot of effort to win everyone I liked so I don’t have to kill them. Feedback would be greatly appreciated!

 

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