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Icelerate

How does Lewyn survive?

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Oh it's simple. It's said at the end of the game, dunno how Celice knew that though.

Short answer: Lewyn is possessed by Hoselty.
Long answer: Lewyn actually died at the battle of Belhalla, but the tome of Hoselty who possess the will of well, the dragon Hoselty, ressurected him, it's kind of hard to tell if it's more Lewyn or more Hoselty that came back, fact is, it changed him, and we got second gen Lewyn, who's not the best dad and husband and king ever.
Pretty cool, huh ?


Fun little tidbit, If I remember correctly, there's some unused concept that some other legendary weapons being able a to do that as well.

Edited by B.Leu

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3 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Play a bit more and you'll know 😉

  Reveal hidden contents

It isn't Lewyn

 

I finished the game. But where explicitly does it say that? 

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Just now, Icelerate said:

I finished the game. But where explicitly does it say that? 

at the end of the game when he talks with Seliph iirc.
It's revealed that Forseti possesed Lewyn.

There's also a cutscene that shows that Lewyn wasn't killed in the massacre, but later on by what's his name Dark mage (the one who planned all of this.)

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10 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

 at the end of the game when he talks with Seliph iirc.
It's revealed that Forseti possesed Lewyn.

There's also a cutscene that shows that Lewyn wasn't killed in the massacre, but later on by what's his name Dark mage (the one who planned all of this.)

Like I said, I want to know where this is stated. When I reference something from an FE games, such as RD, I make it clear what exactly I'm talking about with quotes but how am I supposed to talk about Geneology if I'm missing script details. The dark mage is Manfroy BTW. 

Edited by Icelerate

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9 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Like I said, I want to know where this is stated. When I reference something from an FE games, such as RD, I make it clear what exactly I'm talking about with quotes but how am I supposed to talk about Geneology if I'm missing script details. 

HDz0ans.png

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Fortunately, I took a screenshot.:

image.png.f34d34e30c0fb119e3d6a47610985fc4.png

This was taken from the ending, after Lewyn spoke with his son and heir.

Preceding this after Lewyn says goodbye to his son, Seliph says "From the bottom of our hearts, thank you." Which Lewyn follows by saying "I did only my duty, Seliph. I am the wind, a wind fated to guide the beating light of life."

That is as eloquent as Forseti-Lewyn ever speaks in Gen 2, whilst too poetic, I wish his dialogue was closer to this than normally is in Gen 2 as an aside.

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3 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

HDz0ans.png

Thanks but is it properly explained how Forsetti ended up possessing him? How does Seliph know he is Forsetti when Lewyn hasn't told him before? 

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Oh, Holsety talk, huh.

I'd like to add that the info of "It's not the real Holsety; but rather an imprint of his will left behind on the tome" comes from an old q&a you can read about here:

Holsety was younger and held a higher level of good will and sympathy for the humans compared to other dragons. If he had the chance, he would even reside at Jugdral and protect the humans there. However, he was convinced by Narga that it was silly to stay, so he had no choice but to return to Akaneia. Still, his passion and will was inherited strongly within the wind magic tome Holsety. For this reason, the humans who inherit the Holsety tome inherit Holsety’s will as well as his power.

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

Thanks but is it properly explained how Forsetti ended up possessing him?

i don't have it on hand atm since i didn't unlock it and only saw it online, but there an extra opening cutscene where Malfoy kills Lewyn and then Forseti possesed him

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9 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Oh, Holsety talk, huh.

I'd like to add that the info of "It's not the real Holsety; but rather an imprint of his will left behind on the tome" comes from an old q&a you can read about here:

 Holsety was younger and held a higher level of good will and sympathy for the humans compared to other dragons. If he had the chance, he would even reside at Jugdral and protect the humans there. However, he was convinced by Narga that it was silly to stay, so he had no choice but to return to Akaneia. Still, his passion and will was inherited strongly within the wind magic tome Holsety. For this reason, the humans who inherit the Holsety tome inherit Holsety’s will as well as his power.

Wouldn't this have been information that should have been put in the actual script? Right now it reeks of plot convenience that Lewyn somehow survived. 

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You can find the scenes here. Starts at 6:44 for the Manfroy, Lewyn, and Holsety stuff:

Though the Holsety and Leweyn one is more like a visual metaphor, it's not to be taken literally. What likely happened is that the imprint on the tome detected that Leweyn died, or was on the verge of death, then did whatever the Loptyr tome would later do. It's that exact same situation.

1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

Wouldn't this have been information that should have been put in the actual script? Right now it reeks of plot convenience that Lewyn somehow survived. 

They already had to scrap things like the third part. It's likely this was info they could not put on the game itself due to time/space constraints and whatnot. It was a very common practice of the time, you know.

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5 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

They already had to scrap things like the third part. It's likely this was info they could not put on the game itself due to time/space constraints and whatnot. It was a very common practice of the time, you know.

So FE4 was too ambitious for its own good like FE10? 

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3 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

So FE4 was too ambitious for its own good like FE10? 

Probably. Notice how in the Q&A I linked it also says things like dismounting (except for Celiph himself) also didn't got implemented due to lack of space.

Keep in mind, however, that sometimes information is deliberately witheld, space issues aside. Sometimes to be revealed later, or because telling it in-game would be more of a detriment, who knows. It's hard to say if this particular bit with Holsety and Lewyn would fall into. With the Loptyr tome, however, we can at least deduce that's what happened to Leweyn as well, regardless of info in-game or lack thereof.

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Lewyn was someone that was destined to die. But Forseti intervened and revived him, and possessing him in turn, but also turning Lewyn into someone that is neither among the living or the dead as a result. In fact, one interview remarked that Lewyn isn't so different from the Deadlords. 

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He survives Alvis' troops incinerating everyone at the end of chapter 5 (I assumed, because...) then end up getting killed by Manfroy. Holsety revives him (in the intro cut-scene, using the Valkrie staff, not sure if for convenience or there is any relation), or at least his body, and possesses him to aid whoever may stand up to Loptous (Which is Seliph). I am going to assume that, unlike Loptous and Naga, the tome itself is not required because no matter who the tome is passed down to, Lewyn's story remains the same and the child with it doesn't really have anything special other than an OP as hell weapon.

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4 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Probably. Notice how in the Q&A I linked it also says things like dismounting (except for Celiph himself) also didn't got implemented due to lack of space.

Keep in mind, however, that sometimes information is deliberately witheld, space issues aside. Sometimes to be revealed later, or because telling it in-game would be more of a detriment, who knows. It's hard to say if this particular bit with Holsety and Lewyn would fall into. With the Loptyr tome, however, we can at least deduce that's what happened to Leweyn as well, regardless of info in-game or lack thereof.

I see but what does dismounting on Seliph do? I never bothered because why would you dismount off a horse in FE4?

It reminds me of the DB backstories not being integrated into the actual script of FE10. I don't think we can deduce Lewyn's survival due to Loptyr tome or else we'd have to question why the other major holy blood users don't get possessed which is only answered in Kaga's notes. 

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13 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I see but what does dismounting on Seliph do? I never bothered because why would you dismount off a horse in FE4?

Maybe to avoid a Ridersbane? Yeah, it's pretty worthless in FE4 to dismount, and there is a glitch even that'll possibly cause Seliph to get trapped in a map's corner if you do it, so I hear.

Dismounting just unpromotes him to his base class, until you choose to have him mount again.

 

13 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

It reminds me of the DB backstories not being integrated into the actual script of FE10. I don't think we can deduce Lewyn's survival due to Loptyr tome or else we'd have to question why the other major holy blood users don't get possessed which is only answered in Kaga's notes

Forseti's affection for the Jugdrali continent led him to imbue some of his spirit in his tome, only Naga and Loptyr did the same, the other dragons did not.

Here:

Spoiler

Q: We’re clear about Naga’s intentions, but why did Forseti decide to help?

A: Loptyr, Naga and Forseti held different positions compared to the other dragons. Loptyr's plan was obvious – “to use Bishop Galle to wreak vengeance on the humans”, which is why he formed a blood pact with Galle. The holy dark tome Loptyr's contained Loptyr's overpowering hatred and resentment towards humans, and was able to control the human who broke its seal (namely Bishop Galle’s descendants, those who inherited large amounts of the original pact-former’s blood). So it was, a human who possessed Loptyr strength and will was born. (The final boss of Genealogy of the Holy War was his victim.) In resistance, Naga gave the holy light tome, which he transferred his own will and power into, to Saint Heim. For Naga, who had always disliked interfering with the human world, this was a very worrying decision.

Forseti was younger and held a higher level of good will and sympathy for the humans compared to other dragons. If he had the chance, he would even reside at Jugdral and protect the humans there. However, he was convinced by Narga that it was silly to stay, so he had no choice but to return to Akaneia. Still, his passion and will was inherited strongly within the wind magic tome Forseti. For this reason, the humans who inherit the Forseti tome inherit Forseti's will as well as his power.

As for the other 10 weapons, when they pass on their power to their successors, they do not affect the user’s personality. This is why within the Genealogy of Gods, there are 10 holy weapons whose name does not match up exactly with their god.

 

Edited by Interdimensional Observer

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6 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

I see but what does dismounting on Seliph do? I never bothered because why would you dismount off a horse in FE4?

It reminds me of the DB backstories not being integrated into the actual script of FE10. I don't think we can deduce Lewyn's survival due to Loptyr tome or else we'd have to question why the other major holy blood users don't get possessed which is only answered in Kaga's notes. 

As the Q&A says, it was mostly for "aesthetics". Maybe you still wanted the infantry animation and stuff. Who knows.

Well, perhaps if they could've implemented dismounting, there would've been things done to accomodate for it. Maybe road tiles wouldn't give increased mov to mounted units. Stuff like that.

The revelation of Lewyn being actually being Holsety comes at the very end, so you'd only have Julius as the only other case to make a comparision. Besides, other developer notes say Briggid (as Evayle), was also going to be someone possesed, so perhaps it would apply to other people.

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17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

 Forseti's affection for the Jugdrali continent led him to imbue some of his spirit in his tome, only Naga and Loptyr did the same, the other dragons did not.

 Here:

Reveal hidden contents   Reveal hidden contents

Q: We’re clear about Naga’s intentions, but why did Forseti decide to help?

A: Loptyr, Naga and Forseti held different positions compared to the other dragons. Loptyr's plan was obvious – “to use Bishop Galle to wreak vengeance on the humans”, which is why he formed a blood pact with Galle. The holy dark tome Loptyr's contained Loptyr's overpowering hatred and resentment towards humans, and was able to control the human who broke its seal (namely Bishop Galle’s descendants, those who inherited large amounts of the original pact-former’s blood). So it was, a human who possessed Loptyr strength and will was born. (The final boss of Genealogy of the Holy War was his victim.) In resistance, Naga gave the holy light tome, which he transferred his own will and power into, to Saint Heim. For Naga, who had always disliked interfering with the human world, this was a very worrying decision.

Forseti was younger and held a higher level of good will and sympathy for the humans compared to other dragons. If he had the chance, he would even reside at Jugdral and protect the humans there. However, he was convinced by Narga that it was silly to stay, so he had no choice but to return to Akaneia. Still, his passion and will was inherited strongly within the wind magic tome Forseti. For this reason, the humans who inherit the Forseti tome inherit Forseti's will as well as his power.

As for the other 10 weapons, when they pass on their power to their successors, they do not affect the user’s personality. This is why within the Genealogy of Gods, there are 10 holy weapons whose name does not match up exactly with their god.

 

I know but wouldn't this have been nice to have in the actual game? If FE4 supposedly has the best writing in the series, questions such as why a character survived should be stated in the actual script. Imagine we needed to look at developer notes to find out how the Black Knight survived in RD. 

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 The revelation of Lewyn being actually being Holsety comes at the very end, so you'd only have Julius as the only other case to make a comparision. Besides, other developer notes say Briggid (as Evayle), was also going to be someone possesed, so perhaps it would apply to other people.

Like I said, wouldn't this information be better served in the actual script? If Briggid survived, why not Sigurd? 

Edited by Icelerate

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1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

I know but wouldn't this have been nice to have in the actual game? If FE4 supposedly has the best writing in the series, questions such as why a character survived should be stated in the actual script. Imagine we needed to look at developer notes to find out how the Black Knight survived in RD. 

Like I said, wouldn't this information be better served in the actual script? 

It depends if it's really necessary. Perhaps good writing is not telling the detail right there and then, or at all if it's not really that important in the grand scheme of things? Not everything has to be relevant or so. Or go into every detail. His prescence alone already he survived. Is the "how" really that important when we pretty much get told the same for almost all the women of Sigurd's army? We also don't get told how they survive, just that they did, after all.

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3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It depends if it's really necessary. Perhaps good writing is not telling the detail right there and then, or at all if it's not really that important in the grand scheme of things? Not everything has to be relevant or so. Or go into every detail. His prescence alone already he survived. Is the "how" really that important when we pretty much get told the same for almost all the women of Sigurd's army? We also don't get told how they survive, just that they did, after all.

A character surviving or getting revived is definitely important enough to explain. The how is quite important unless you want to argue the BK surviving in RD having no explanation behind it is acceptable. His presence in the plot when he's supposed to be dead is problematic. 

Where was it stated that the women in Sigurd's army survived BTW? Wasn't the whole point of gen 2 to get revenge for the death of the parents of gen 1? 

Edited by Icelerate

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2 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

A character surviving or getting revived is definitely important enough to explain. The how is quite important unless you want to argue the BK surviving in RD having no explanation behind it is acceptable.  

Once again, assuming it's important. Yes, how the BK is back could be glossed over and be acceptable. Sometimes, an author wants the readers to speculate on their own, before eventually giving the answer. It's just like how "how much of Lewyn is really there" is still a question today, when it comes to the Holsety possession detail. Some things are meant to be left unanswered. Good writing is about when it's the right time to reveal something. Sometimes, witholding it or even not revealing is the answer.

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4 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sometimes, witholding it or even not revealing is the answer.

Proof of this statement? 

No writing/no explanation is devoid of merit. Because something can't have merit when it isn't explained. Unless you want to argue 0 =/= 0 which is absurd. 

Edited by Icelerate

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