Remove and replace a fighter from Ultimate (newcomers only); be civil

[Fabulously Olivier]

11 minutes ago, Florete said:

I don't think Geralt is eligible since he's not a video game-original character.

We'll see one way or another. I'm not really interested in heated arguments on the subject again. This is about what we want.

 

To address your point, while that argument has been officially used against such characters as Goku, I'm not sure if it matters here. The argument was dismissive in nature. It was a diplomatic way of saying what should be obvious to literally everyone in the entire world - that Goku would be a bloody stupid addition.

 

Geralt is far, far more associated with video games than with books (to the author's vocal dismay), while Goku is more associated with anime and manga than with video games. He's also appeared in crossover fighting games before, and CDProjekt has expressed a desire to see him in Smash (whether that matters or not remains to be seen.)

 

But at the end of the day, this is about what I want, not what I expect. The entire thread is a what if.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Etheus

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

To address your point, while that argument has been officially used against such characters as Goku, I'm not sure if it matters here. Geralt is far, far more associated with video games than with books (to the author's vocal dismay), while Goku is more associated with anime and manga than with video games. He's also appeared in crossover fighting games before, and CDProjekt has expressed a desire to see him in Smash (whether that matters or not remains to be seen.) But at the end of the day, this is about what I want, not what I expect. The entire thread is a what if.

That's...pretty backwards logic. That's basically saying Geralt is more likely than Goku because his franchise is less popular. DBZ games are still more successful than The Witcher games.

Other crossover fighting games don't have the same rules as Smash. Soul Calibur had Yoda and Darth Vader in the past. Meanwhile, Sakurai has personally stated he only wants video game-original characters in Smash.

4 minutes ago, Etheus said:

 I'm not really interested in heated arguments on the subject again.

Then why did you make an argument?

It's fine if that's simply what you want. I just figured it was worth mentioning since not everyone actually knows.

[Fabulously Olivier]

42 minutes ago, Florete said:

That's...pretty backwards logic. That's basically saying Geralt is more likely than Goku because his franchise is less popular. DBZ games are still more successful than The Witcher games.

Other crossover fighting games don't have the same rules as Smash. Soul Calibur had Yoda and Darth Vader in the past. Meanwhile, Sakurai has personally stated he only wants video game-original characters in Smash.

Then why did you make an argument?

It's fine if that's simply what you want. I just figured it was worth mentioning since not everyone actually knows.

My case is made and I'm more baffled at your statement than anything. The entire point was that, to most audiences, Geralt is a video game character. Most players being unaware that the novels even exist. It's a pretty tonally unique situation, especially when the video game character of Geralt is considered a separate and non-canon character by the author himself. For all intents and purposes, Geralt as we know him is a video game character.

 

I am aware that Soul Calibur has loose rules for its crossovers, but at least Geralt was tonally and visually consistent with the franchise, unlike Darth Vader and Yoda. He also wouldn't look unnatural in Smash (not that such means anything, what with the sheer variety Smash embodies).

 

And what I mean to say is that extensive debate on the matter doesn't really have value. I gave you my perspective so that you might understand where I'm coming from, but I wasn't really inviting another argument; the first time wasn't fun for anyone.

 

Also, one final point. Your appeal to popularity is objectively not a good one. A quick google search shows that the Witcher franchise has sold an estimated 40 million copies, with the Witcher 3 alone accounting for over half of that figure (so 20 million, as a low ball). The Witcher game series isn't exactly obscure. It's a cultural juggernaut despite being in a niche genre. Even accounting for the fact that these sales were built up over years, 20 million sales is an impressive figure, even if we're going by AAA standards.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Etheus

[Florete]

41 minutes ago, Etheus said:

The entire point was that, to most audiences, Geralt is a video game character. Most players being unaware that the novels even exist.

It doesn't matter what most audiences think. It matters what Sakurai thinks.

And I can assure you that there would be insane backlash from Goku fans if Geralt gets in before him for this very reason.

42 minutes ago, Etheus said:

And what I mean to say is that extensive debate on the matter doesn't really have value. I gave you my perspective so that you might understand where I'm coming from, but I wasn't really inviting another argument; the first time wasn't fun for anyone.

You responded, and that means you invited discussion. If you don't want that, don't respond.

42 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Also, one final point. Your appeal to popularity is objectively not a good one. A quick google search shows that the Witcher franchise has sold an estimated 40 million copies, with the Witcher 3 alone accounting for over half of that figure (so 20 million, as a low ball). The Witcher game series isn't exactly obscure. It's a cultural juggernaut despite being in a niche genre. Even accounting for the fact that these sales were built up over years, 20 million sales is an impressive figure, even if we're going by AAA standards.

Uh, what? I never said The Witcher isn't popular. I said it isn't as popular as DBZ. I entirely agree that it's pretty impressive for its genre.

[Perkilator]

Guys, can we not start an argument, please?

[Fabulously Olivier]

38 minutes ago, Florete said:

It doesn't matter what most audiences think. It matters what Sakurai thinks.

And I can assure you that there would be insane backlash from Goku fans if Geralt gets in before him for this very reason.

You responded, and that means you invited discussion. If you don't want that, don't respond.

Uh, what? I never said The Witcher isn't popular. I said it isn't as popular as DBZ. I entirely agree that it's pretty impressive for its genre.

Okay, firstly, you responded to me, inviting an argument. My choice was to either ignore you entirely or put forth my reasoning as to why my wishes are valid. It doesn't mean there is any point in us splitting hairs over it. If he gets in, he gets in, and if he doesn't, he doesn't. I just think that there is value to the idea of him getting in. And by objective metrics - sales, critical reception, gaming history - there is.

 

Second off, why do the opinions of "Goku fans" matter? Should we also be mindful of people who want Shrek, Spongebob, or the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air in Smash? Just because x group would be angry if y happened before z doesn't mean that matters. And even if the character actually is worth considering (Walluigi, for example), is the idea of backlash for their lack of inclusion a valid reason to pick them? Is the backlash for Walluigi not making it in a reason why he should get in?

 

Anyway, I think I've been civil, and I haven't gone out of my way to criticize anyone you want in the game (in this thread). Let wants be wants. 

Edited August 29, 2019 by Etheus

[Florete]

34 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Okay, firstly, you responded to me, inviting an argument. My choice was to either ignore you entirely or put forth my reasoning as to why my wishes are valid. It doesn't mean there is any point in us splitting hairs over it. If he gets in, he gets in, and if he doesn't, he doesn't. I just think that there is value to the idea of him getting in. And by objective metrics - sales, critical reception, gaming history - there is.

I invited a response, and I didn't complain when I got one. You did.

34 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Second off, why do the opinions of "Goku fans" matter? Should we also be mindful of people who want Shrek, Spongebob, or the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air in Smash? Just because x group would be angry if y happened before z doesn't mean that matters. And even if the character actually is worth considering (Walluigi, for example), is the idea of backlash for their lack of inclusion a valid reason to pick them? Is the backlash for Walluigi not making it in a reason why he should get in?

You're the one who mentioned most audiences seeing Geralt as a video game character. Why do their opinions matter?

38 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Anyway, I think I've been civil, and I haven't gone out of my way to criticize anyone you want in the game (in this thread). Let wants be wants. 

I didn't criticize anyone you want in the game. I merely pointed out that Geralt likely isn't eligible. I didn't say he'd be a bad choice. You're even the one who mentioned Goku in the first place. I straight up said, "It's fine if that's simply what you want."

I mean, I'd love to see Akemi Homura in Smash, but she is similarly ineligible.

56 minutes ago, Perkilator said:

Guys, can we not start an argument, please?

I'll stop responding if Etheus does.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Anyway, nothing matters, because Sakurai/Nintendo live in their own little world and nothing they do will make the Smash community happy; they're too busy complaining about too many swords, too many Fire Emblem characters, whether or not Hero should be banned, or Snake losing his thicc booty from Brawl. 

 

But I digress. Minds change and I doubt much of anything is forever ineligible (except Fresh Prince... I doubt we're getting Will Smith in Smash). We've gone from just first parties to first and third. We've had characters who have never been on a Nintendo platform until much later than they were added. We can only speculate on Sakurai's mindset.

 

At times, I'm not sure if I love or hate Smash fans, but I'd be lying if I said the ride wasn't fun. Here's hoping that the next couple announcements are good ones (though if the leaks are true, I'd be lying if I said I'm not fearful.)

Edited August 29, 2019 by Etheus

[Bankai]

If echoes can be replaced Ken for heihachi or Jin from tekken.