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Do you think FE should be more political and less fanatastic?


Corrobin
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I've noticed a lot of people, when talking about Fates, or even just the series as a whole, say that FE should focus less on generic "Evil dragon/wizard/conqueror tries to take over the continent, hero rises to stop him" plots and be more about the political stuff, but that idea has never really sat well with me.

I like some of the more 'generic' FE games! I don't mind the overarching plot being more 'normal' or 'easy'. 

I do see the point in that idea, however.

How do you feel about this?

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I'd say, the two aren't really opposites, so I would be on the opinion there can be and should be an ideal blend between the two. Which shouldn't be a static one.

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I don't think declaring either as the better direction is correct. It's more important IMO to be clear on what the direction should be - the Tellius games, for example, start off as a pretty good political drama and collapse into a complete mess of a fantastical conflict. They would have benefited a ton from sticking specifically with the politics.

In the other direction, mildly unpopular opinion but I think FE7's plot benefited a lot from sticking to a Heroes Fighting A Great Evil story and essentially skipping over the politics. Spending more time in Laus would not have made that game more interesting.

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(TL;DR at the end)


I personally prefer more Politics because the geopolitics of a world is what captivates me the most in it's narration so for example I care way less for the FE7 drama scene where Ninian dies than I do for Chapter 18 of FE8 since that one is situated alongside a river that has supposedly brough prosperity to the people living there. Another example is how I see FE13's intro in a not so positive light as it's centered around Chrom and Robin fighting Validar and doesn't really talk about the world we are in and the same goes for Fates; whilst FE4's, 8's and 9th's introductions I believe to be some of the best with the way they showcase the nations, tensions between them and generally just start worldbuilding (I would have added 10 maybe if I had even played the intro but I remember it introducing or adding on to Tellius' world so I would like it)

This reminds me of the time my history professor was teaching us about the spice and silk trade through the mediterranean sea and after I asked and he showed me where the mediterranean was I was hooked and imagined on that map the life and culture of the times, the same happens when I start up FE8 and I start getting told about the countries around and so on.

So for me politics in an FE game hooks me way more than starting up with the characters and getting shown some epic battle or some weird dream predicting the future. And not only does it satisfy me way more I believe it's also about the good way to tell a FE story if you even slightly focus more on the geopolitical, and in a mutually inclusive way the political, aspect of the world you can begin to set the tone and place for where we are. And you know what's the best part about the games I mentioned before, barring FE9? it is that they worldbuild first and then have drama immediately after and it works; Genealogy starts off with the Aideen rescue arc and the Sacred Stones has the King left behind and Eirika escaping to safety. I do not see the same happening the other way where you start off with the drama and then get to show the continent's map unless it's kinda like what FE16 is doing but I mean they didn't start on drama either it was just "bandit battle" and then worldbuild and the game executed it so smoothly it works, I can only sing praises for it.

I realized I have been making a Drama vs. Geopolitical comment all this time so to get back to the fantasy setting, I believe it should stay there obviously because an FE game without a demonic beast at the end of some sorts and without magic and pegasi just won't do.


TL;DR: Geopolitics and politics itself captivates me more than fantasy but an FE game without fantasy could just not be an FE game, in essence and in practice these two aren't mutually exclusive to begin with.

Edited by This boi uses Nino
Grammar edits and some lines were made easier to read.
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I wouldn't mind more politics myself, but I'm reminded of when I was in middle school reading the Dragonriders of Pern books. I got bored with Dragonflight because it launched into a huge multi chapter tirade about the politics of the people. I was reading that book because I wanted to read about people riding dragons, not some lord dude and all his concubines and who was trying to assassinate him. It may be if I were to go back to the book today, I might be more interested in political drama instead of OOOHHH DRAGON, but this may be a factor in why FE tends to do plots like it's been doing. Its intended audience is teenagers, hence why it's rated T or E10+. And teenagers, if I was a typical one, like more DRAGON.

A balance has to be had, basically. Tellius could have still done a good mixture without the Ashera stuff, like, if there was some focus on the politics and social structure of the laguz. We got plenty of that for beorc. We saw beorc struggles over who should lead Crimea. What if, for example, we saw Skirmir's competition? Or maybe a more detailed account of the former raven king and his struggles with the blood pact? Laguz are more "fantasy" of course, and I still hold them in my heart as best FE shapeshifters. Actually Ashera's role could have been kept but adding these two things would help add to "politics".

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Eating the same bread everyday would be boring, even if it is your favorite because you'll soon grow sick of it. 

Also, just because a game isn't focused on politics doesn't mean it can't be mature. Sacred Stones and the Archanea Series are proof of that.

 

 

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On 7/29/2019 at 8:39 PM, This boi uses Nino said:

(TL;DR at the end)


I personally prefer more Politics because the geopolitics of a world is what captivates me the most in it's narration so for example I care way less for the FE7 drama scene where Ninian dies than I do for Chapter 18 of FE8 since that one is situated alongside a river that has supposedly brough prosperity to the people living there. Another example is how I see FE13's intro in a not so positive light as it's centered around Chrom and Robin fighting Validar and doesn't really talk about the world we are in and the same goes for Fates; whilst FE4's, 8's and 9th's introductions I believe to be some of the best with the way they showcase the nations, tensions between them and generally just start worldbuilding (I would have added 10 maybe if I had even played the intro but I remember it introducing or adding on to Tellius' world so I would like it)

This reminds me of the time my history professor was teaching us about the spice and silk trade through the mediterranean sea and after I asked and he showed me where the mediterranean was I was hooked and imagined on that map the life and culture of the times, the same happens when I start up FE8 and I start getting told about the countries around and so on.

So for me politics in an FE game hooks me way more than starting up with the characters and getting shown some epic battle or some weird dream predicting the future. And not only does it satisfy me way more I believe it's also about the good way to tell a FE story if you even slightly focus more on the geopolitical, and in a mutually inclusive way the political, aspect of the world you can begin to set the tone and place for where we are. And you know what's the best part about the games I mentioned before, barring FE9? it is that they worldbuild first and then have drama immediately after and it works; Genealogy starts off with the Aideen rescue arc and the Sacred Stones has the King left behind and Eirika escaping to safety. I do not see the same happening the other way where you start off with the drama and then get to show the continent's map unless it's kinda like what FE16 is doing but I mean they didn't start on drama either it was just "bandit battle" and then worldbuild and the game executed it so smoothly it works, I can only sing praises for it.

I realized I have been making a Drama vs. Geopolitical comment all this time so to get back to the fantasy setting, I believe it should stay there obviously because an FE game without a demonic beast at the end of some sorts and without magic and pegasi just won't do.


TL;DR: Geopolitics and politics itself captivates me more than fantasy but an FE game without fantasy could just not be an FE game, in essence and in practice these two aren't mutually exclusive to begin with.

Maybe fantasy games like FE is not right for you it a game that deals with midevil fantasy maybe more american army games like call of duty or assassin creed up your ally.

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I don't know what makes TC think the problems noted in this thread with past plots is one of Magic VS Politics.

 

Like, I don't see how Anankos/Garon's issue is that they're magical (being a dragon/water zombie). Their issue would be that they're Generic Doomsday Villains who have either have no legit personality with a suitable ideal/belief/vision for society/low desire for money and women or are too silly for their situation. Anankos also suffers from being a contrivance to let Corrin marry from both sets of royal siblings and to force a team-up between Hoshido with Nohr.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Eryon said:

I don't know what makes TC think the problems noted in this thread with past plots is one of Magic VS Politics.

Like, I don't see how Anankos/Garon's issue is that they're magical (being a dragon/water zombie). Their issue would be that they're Generic Doomsday Villains who have either have no legit personality with a suitable ideal/belief/vision for society/low desire for money and women or are too silly for their situation. Anankos also suffers from being a contrivance to let Corrin marry from both sets of royal siblings and to force a team-up between Hoshido with Nohr.

I understand why you would say that I'm creating a false dichotomy, but I have a point:

The games usually credited with having the best plots in the series are the ones that have less fantastical elements at the forefront. FE4, 5, and 9 are the big ones. All three of those, while still having magic and uber-powerful legendary weapons, don't have any non-human (or, in 9's case, nonhuman and/or laguz) villains. Yeah, Julius is possessed by Anankos, but that almost feels kinda token, and Julius is the least interesting part of the plot to many-it's his relationships with Ishtar and his father that make it interesting, as well as, again, that political focus. 5 is mostly an extension of 4, but focused on something smaller and more intimate, normal people. In fact, 10 gets a lot of criticism for getting rid of the political focus in the final act to focus on another giant smackdown of divinity.

Meanwhile, the plots usually criticized are the more generic, "Hero vs. evil emperor/demon/dragon"-6, 8, and the Archanea remakes.

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54 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

I understand why you would say that I'm creating a false dichotomy, but I have a point:

The games usually credited with having the best plots in the series are the ones that have less fantastical elements at the forefront. FE4, 5, and 9 are the big ones. All three of those, while still having magic and uber-powerful legendary weapons, don't have any non-human (or, in 9's case, nonhuman and/or laguz) villains. Yeah, Julius is possessed by Anankos, but that almost feels kinda token, and Julius is the least interesting part of the plot to many-it's his relationships with Ishtar and his father that make it interesting, as well as, again, that political focus. 5 is mostly an extension of 4, but focused on something smaller and more intimate, normal people. In fact, 10 gets a lot of criticism for getting rid of the political focus in the final act to focus on another giant smackdown of divinity.

Meanwhile, the plots usually criticized are the more generic, "Hero vs. evil emperor/demon/dragon"-6, 8, and the Archanea remakes.

As a counter point I call upon the story of Tear Ring Saga, with complex political intrigue, massive near invincible dragons, the summoning of dark gods, and mythical life restoring towers. The game is a Fire Emblem in all but name, and shows that you can combine political intrigue and fantasy into a compelling plot.

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On 7/31/2019 at 1:33 AM, Mikethemaster2018 said:

Maybe fantasy games like FE is not right for you it a game that deals with midevil fantasy maybe more american army games like call of duty or assassin creed up your ally.

I literally said I like FE how it is and that it without fantasy elements isn't FE. CoD and Assasin's creed aren't SRPGs and of those two I only reallly enjoy CoD BO1 (never played WaW).

And I've enjoyed games like Advance Wars and FFTA since I was 4 so FE IS right for me.

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On 7/31/2019 at 3:34 PM, starburst said:

Politics?! Players want waifus, tits and lolis, mate. Waifus Tits & Lolis. Trademark it.

WTL. Nice!

I'd say Fire Emblem is fine the way it is now. But then again, I'm not one who is interested in political mumbo jumbo.
Also, in our current times where people get offended by everything even slightly political (in one way or the other), I'd say more politics is a minefield the writers should avoid. Just give a good story with compelling characters and I'm fine. 

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I think that what a FE game needs is solid worldbuilding, character development and coherent plot and writing. Yes, this isn't really a trivial thing to do, but I believe these are the core values for a FE game (... for pretty much every RPG), what with it being heavily focused on its story and character relationships. Anything else is a [welcome] addition. If it involves Game of Thrones 5d cyvasse politics or if it's about slaying dragons, I'm fine with either option (I prefer a more political story, but that's me). FE7 is a good example of this, imo (sans some plot problems).

If anything, what I'd like to see more in FE is how "war is hell", similar to how Gundam treats its mass scale wars and child soldiers.

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11 hours ago, This boi uses Nino said:

I literally said I like FE how it is and that it without fantasy elements isn't FE. CoD and Assasin's creed aren't SRPGs and of those two I only reallly enjoy CoD BO1 (never played WaW).

And I've enjoyed games like Advance Wars and FFTA since I was 4 so FE IS right for me.

That what up FFTWOTL. Was my/is favorite FF game wish they made squeal with Ramza as the lead again.

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