How long until the 'honeymoon' phase of this game is over?

[Humanoid]

Plenty of flaws but as the last time I made general remarks on the game it was in the "things you like" thread so it'd have been inappropriate to threadjack it with my quibbles.

- The UI is fairly unintuitive with plenty of functionality squirreled away in weird places and some things inexplicably disallowed. On some screens for example you can scroll through your squad with the L and R buttons, but at other times you can't and have to go back to the list of units to get to them. Reclassing is inexplicably hidden in the inventory menu, motivation is in the goals menu, it's all very weird at times. I can't find a way to preview the next month's schedule either, which is annoying when trying to figure out when I have to recharge my students' motivation in particular. And I don't think I can combine partially-used vulneraries?

- Battle map presentation is a clear step back from the clarity of the 3DS era. The health bars are harder to see and freak out when you're hiding in a forest tile. The portraits hover there uselessly and confusingly and it's harder to see who you have selected and who they're targetting (I know the portraits can be removed but the game does a poor job of communicating who's who). And the terrain ends up pretty indistinct, a few things I just had to test like whether that ankle-high railing was an obstacle or just set dressing.

- The graphics in general are somewhat substandard, not sure how much of it is down to the Switch's lack of grunt and how much is just sloppiness. The texture work isn't great and weirdly low-res at points, and the aliasing looks notably terrible on characters. Projectile animation has no variance, you always shoot people in the groin which becomes really noticeable once you see it.

- Pseudo pixel-hunt gameplay during exploration, what with finding lost items, bait, random professor level XP, etc. I just can't stand this excuse for "gameplay" (and it's not just this game) that amounts to pure busywork. I wish I could do a Hilda and delegate the chores to my minions. Furthermore, the map navigation in the monastery is also pretty janky, it can be hard to highlight the zone you want to go to, and trying to just scroll through them to find characters is a hopeless exercise.

- Supports are awkward as hell when they're trying to depict people doing more than just talking. The engine just can't support it, and you end up with weird workarounds like just showing static screens, fades to black, and blatantly talking about objects that should be there but actually aren't. Like, "how are you carrying all that stuff, it must be heavy!" when there's literally nothing being carried or even in the vicinity. And on the topic of supports, I'm not seeing them as any better overall than in previous games. Not worse, but it's pretty much at the same level in my eyes in terms of writing. The voice acting helps a lot though, I'll give it that.

- False, meaningless choices in dialogue. This goes all the way back to the very first dialogue choice in the game and it doesn't really get better. Byleth pretty much feels like a doormat at this stage, and I'm annoyed at him letting Sothis basically just walk all over him.

- Can't jump during exploration phases. 😛

 

But ultimately, as I said in that other thread, it's still a very good game regardless of all the above.

[Fabulously Olivier]

There are FE games that I do not enjoy even on a first playthrough (Fates, Shadow Dragon, and especially SoV). This is not one of those games. I absolutely love it. 

 

I don't think that's just a honeymoon phase with the new shiny, otherwise I wouldn't have struggled to finish the aforementioned when they were the new shiny.

[Sentinel07]

It's inevitable that the shine will fade after a while.

However, I think this game will still endure as a favorite for many once it's all said and done. At the very least, many fan concerns from Fates were addressed, and the game is relatively without controversy (no worrying about skinship or Soleil or localization or whatever).

For me, I'm feeling pretty certain that even once the high fades, this will be a Top 3 Fire Emblem for me. I think it might beat Path of Radiance as my 2nd favorite. Will it beat Sacred Stones? Time will tell.

[De Geso]

What a weird thing to worry about. "When can I start disliking this game?"

[UNLEASH IT]

The pacing of this game's plot is atrocious, especially in Edelgard's route. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, De Geso said:

What a weird thing to worry about. "When can I start disliking this game?"

It's not so much a question of when one can dislike a game. It is a basic reality that over time, opinions on things change. When and how those opinions change is just a little curiosity apart from a desire to actually like or dislike it.

Asking "When did video gamers turn against the 3D Collectathon genre?", does not mean one dislikes them. Nor does asking about the decline of the Roman Empire, mean the questioner disliked the Roman Empire.

[Loki Laufeyson]

18 hours ago, Integrity said:

i will never lose my wonder

This is a mood  this is the FE i never knew i needed  

18 hours ago, blah the Prussian said:

probably whenever thane starts criticizing the writing

2 hours ago, De Geso said:

What a weird thing to worry about. "When can I start disliking this game?"

No joke. Why can't people just come to their own conclusions? Are we gonna start whinging about optional stuff again? l o l 

 

2 hours ago, UNLEASH IT said:

The pacing of this game's plot is atrocious, especially in Edelgard's route. 

What do mean by this? Too fast or too slow? 

[UNLEASH IT]

1 minute ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

This is a mood  this is the FE i never knew i needed  

No joke. Why can't people just come to their own conclusions? Are we gonna start whinging about optional stuff again? l o l 

 

What do mean by this? Too fast or too slow? 

Way too fast. It's the shortest route by far and the so called mastermind evil guys are handwaved in the epilogue.

[Loki Laufeyson]

2 minutes ago, UNLEASH IT said:

Way too fast. It's the shortest route by far and the so called mastermind evil guys are handwaved in the epilogue.

Hmmm. From what i know about that route, its the Dodgy Route. While all routes are telling the story, seems like Edelgard's just sorta does what it does and calls it a day, huh? 

[UNLEASH IT]

2 hours ago, Loki Laufeyson said:

Hmmm. From what i know about that route, its the Dodgy Route. While all routes are telling the story, seems like Edelgard's just sorta does what it does and calls it a day, huh? 

Not really. I don't think those who slither are dealt with in the BL path either. Also every route ends super abruptly for some reason.

Honestly I remember one of the reviews saying that the routes had uneven pacing, which I couldn't believe because people who got the game early were saying that one path was more than 80 hours long. But now that I actually played it I can see where the complaint came from. Part 2 is less than half the game, regardless of the route you take and to make things worse Part 1 has the same maps on every route.

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by UNLEASH IT

[Cute Chao]

I don't imagine I'll stop enjoying it, since I have liked every Fire Emblem so far to varying degrees, but I already know it's not near top spot for me. FE7 remains my favourite to this day. I'm open to another FE changing it, but it has nostalgia as well as many of my favourite characters going for it 😄

I'm a bit overwhelmed by this game, currently. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I sort of miss getting straight into battles like other FEs. At the same time, I'm also enjoying exploring and customising so I am glad they did something different ^.^

[De Geso]

46 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I don't imagine I'll stop enjoying it, since I have liked every Fire Emblem so far to varying degrees, but I already know it's not near top spot for me. FE7 remains my favourite to this day. I'm open to another FE changing it, but it has nostalgia as well as many of my favourite characters going for it 😄

I'm a bit overwhelmed by this game, currently. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I sort of miss getting straight into battles like other FEs. At the same time, I'm also enjoying exploring and customising so I am glad they did something different ^.^

"I played Fire Emblem for a couple of hours yesterday and didn't complete a single map" is not a statement I ever thought I would say and be happy about.

[starburst]

4 hours and 37 minutes.
That is how long I played the game before getting bored. I will give it more tries, but not right now. It may simply not be for me. Or the maps might surprise me later. Who knows! Either way, 4 hours and 37 minutes.

[Llorona]

Re: The way the routes end abruptly, this might just be me, but I'm usually of the opinion that endings are one of Fire Emblem's weak points. So I can't say I'm surprised about that.

In any case, idk. I am more used to games in this series having a lot of hate that eventually softens, not the other way around lol.

[Errorik]

Complaining in preparation to complain

[Lord of Riva]

17 hours ago, starburst said:

4 hours and 37 minutes.
That is how long I played the game before getting bored. I will give it more tries, but not right now. It may simply not be for me. Or the maps might surprise me later. Who knows! Either way, 4 hours and 37 minutes.

The maps only really get better in the second half, even then they are not the greatest.

 

There have been issues voiced already that i concur on, however overall it is a really good game, I think the new things it brings are all well done.

Ui clarity, some tropey supports that are not that well executed (but well we also had trope emblem awakening and fates before...), the second half of the game feeling too rushed (in the two routes i played), the graphics that i surprisingly like stylistically are often just a bit too rough (GBA sprites being the best executed, albeit naturally simpler), maps being to simplistic, the class system while great on paper is pretty limiting and wierd in execution. The lost item quests and professor exp are pretty bad time sinkers without much fun, but they are skippable.

The second play through is definitely harmed by the length and the same content but is aptly mitigated by the NG+ mechanics which makes it a lot faster.

All these things though do not make it a bad game in the least.

I really like a lot of the older games but that said, Shadows of Valentia being an absolute low point for gameplay, fates being a absolute clusterf**k with it's story (as in it was barely comprehensible) and the Tellius games a gigantic slow slog and pain in the butt to play (and completely destroying support mechanics) coming from that perspective Three houses does improve in a lot of ways.

So when is the honeymoon period over? I guess for me it already is, right after the first playthrough but nonetheless i was ready to do the second playthrough directly after and I am still enjoying myself, that is because the game is simply well done and compared to the last few entries it's a great game that has some rough edges instead of a rough experience with pretty smooth edges. So i guess it's a win.

[ShadowAUS]

The moment I finished Edelgard's route and said out loud "that's it?!" was kind of the moment my honeymoon phase ended. Don't get me wrong, the game is good and it will certainly end up on my best of year end list but despite in a lot of ways being an improvement on previous entries it also is over ambitious without the time/money/manpower/skill required to pull it all off which leads to a lot of both big and little things just not feeling quite right.

The biggest of these being the atrocious pacing, Act 2 (especially the endings) overall being a let down despite the story picking up in a good way and game difficulty (you can pretty much blind play Hard without any issues even if you've barely ever played a TRPG before) being somewhat all over the place. You also have some smaller things like the minigames feeling kind of useless and shallow, lost items being tedious and both feeling necessary and not worthwhile at the same time (especially on subsequent playthroughs), quests mostly consisting of shallow fetch objectives, some uneven support writing quality, docked performance wasn't great (at least for me but I played the majority of docked time on 1.0.0 so I don't know if 1.0.1+ fixed this), the recruitment system not being particularly well-thought-out, the class system feeling restrictive, the map design being pretty mediocre etc, etc. Theres more I could list but I think it kind of gets the point across.

None of this ruins the game and I'm still enjoying it even coming up on 100 hours of playtime but it also means 3H will probably easily win my award for 'Game with the most missed potential released this year'.

[Kiran_]

I don't really think a honeymoon phase is real unless you really have no self-awareness. I loved Sacred Stones, PoR and Awakening instantly, and I still love those three games a lot. Awakening, I knew was going to be my favorite almost immediately and lo and behold it still is.

Fates on the other hand, I WANTED to like, but literally from the first chapter I was worried. I was like, "Eh, I don't really like the way the plot is going, but it's so early." Then 1/3 of the way through I put it down because the story was so painful for me to get through and the characters were just overblown tropes. There was no honeymoon period, I just never from the moment I got the game to when I stopped playing, liked the game. I only got as far as I did because it was a FE game, but I was critical about it from the start and I was incredibly hyped for it.

For Three Houses, from nearly the beginning I knew it was going to maybe overtake Awakening as my favorite, and so far it's on track to. Are there flaws? Yes, duh. But overall? It's actually amazing. The world building is beautiful. The dialogue is (for me) better than it was in Awakening! The characters I love (Blue Lions house only so far), and the plot has me intrigued and guessing. I know most of it through foreshadowing, but I'm not always for big twists and turns so much as how you GET to the twists and turns and I feel like they're doing a decent job.

The maps are basic, but fun, and I like the ability to focus on the school part, OR just battle, depending on my mood. So yeah, I don't think there's going to be a honeymoon phase for MOST people. I think most people are self aware enough to recognize when they like or dislike a game and can pick out the flaws.

 

 

[Sire]

I'm maybe 55 hours into Edelgard's route doing Hard Classic, currently at Chapter 15. While I'm still a bit excited, my completionist tendencies are getting to me because I have to listen to each support convo I unlock and do all the missions and stuff. A part of me just wants to focus on the main story, but I don't want to miss anything else. When I have battle quests or new supports to go through, it sorta ruins the pacing for me. (Now, I love the supports and learning about the characters. I guess I feel the story pacing is being dragged down with all this other stuff I "have to do" because I can't put it off and have to "do it now instead of later." Then I'm also gonna have to do this for the other routes...)

I also looked up a bit on the other routes and I'm a bit concerned about playing through those as they seem to be fairly similar until halfway through Part II where there may be some divergence. Sure, the stories and characters may be different, but the basic map and objectives seem to be the same from what I glanced over. I sincerely wonder how the "the same, but different" approach will work, or if I am simply blowing things out of proportion.

* * * * *

That aside though, Three Houses is still shaping up to be one of the best Fire Emblem games made. The presentation thus far may match Shadows of Valentia, and there are some fun objective maps that remind me of Radiant Dawn and Fates: Conquest. The world building in Three Houses may even topple the Tellius games.

I still need to get around to finishing Edelgard's route and the other paths. Then there's the DLC and Free Updates to consider when they happen down the line, so my opinion may become more refined the more I play.

[starburst]

12 hours ago, Lord of Riva said:

The maps only really get better in the second half, even then they are not the greatest.

maps being to simplistic, the class system while great on paper is pretty limiting and wierd in execution. The lost item quests and professor exp are pretty bad time sinkers without much fun [...]

 

8 hours ago, ShadowAUS said:

game difficulty (you can pretty much blind play Hard without any issues even if you've barely ever played a TRPG before) [...] You also have some smaller things like the minigames feeling kind of useless and shallow, lost items being tedious and both feeling necessary and not worthwhile at the same time [...]

the recruitment system not being particularly well-thought-out, the class system feeling restrictive, the map design being pretty mediocre etc

That is my emphasis, but... Aw, man! That is what I feared: More uninteresting maps and more of those mini-games.
Hopefully, things that I have not seen or that I did not understand will "click" on my next tries.

[ChickenBits]

On 7/31/2019 at 11:45 AM, Loki Laufeyson said:

Hmmm. From what i know about that route, its the Dodgy Route. While all routes are telling the story, seems like Edelgard's just sorta does what it does and calls it a day, huh? 

Edelgard's route serves as an expansion of some sort. It dives into her character and motivations but that's about it. It's a shame it's shorter but that's probably a byproduct of having nothing left to tell, all of the mysteries are solved in the other routes. 

On 7/31/2019 at 11:58 AM, UNLEASH IT said:

Not really. I don't think those who slither are dealt with in the BL path either. Also every route ends super abruptly for some reason.

Honestly I remember one of the reviews saying that the routes had uneven pacing, which I couldn't believe because people who got the game early were saying that one path was more than 80 hours long. But now that I actually played it I can see where the complaint came from. Part 2 is less than half the game, regardless of the route you take and to make things worse Part 1 has the same maps on every route.

In BL you kill the ringleader so I guess that's a form of dealing with them. The pacing does tank towards the end and Edel is the biggest offender of this T-T. I personally didn't find it that jarring in the other three routes but Edel's was terrible.

Anyways, about the topic. I personally don't expect my opinion to change anytime soon, the game hit all the right notes for me, but I'm expecting the cycle to be similar to Echoes. A lot of praise at the beginning because of it's differences from Fates but the criticism slowly arises. In the end Echoes became somewhat divisive between some fans so I'm wondering if the same will happen to 3Houses.

[Moonlit Knight]

My main complaint is that the routes are very unbalanced, as everyone is saying.

Spoiler

While Edelgard’s and Dimitri’s routes are wonderful stories in and of themselves, they really only discuss the war aspect of this game. The Golden Deer and Church routes delve FAR more deeply into the meat of what really is going on behind the scenes and what really happened between Seiros and Nemesis, and feel FAR more complete as a result. Even then, however, those two routes are VERY similar to each other (though one has Claude and the other doesn’t).

 

I made the “mistake” of starting with Golden Deer, which I thought would be my favorite, and it definitely is. Now, I don’t really have much motivation to play Edelgard’s or Dimitri’s routes anymore (at least, not until I’ve taken a break).

Edited August 2, 2019 by Moonlit Knight

[Dr. Tarrasque]

I can already toss in some critiques...

- Speech animations won't age well.

- Echoes had better animations, specially when it comes to Follow-up attacks. In many instances it seemed we were back to the GBA days where a Follow-up attack looked the exact same as the first attack and the character had to go back to their starting position before performing the follow-up attack.

- The novelty of Demonic Beasts dies off pretty fast and the maps where they're spammed can be a bigger pain in the ass than they should be

- The lack of customization for Byleth's Strengths on his Skill levels kind of hampers the replay value. It took a long time and lots of Faculty Training to be able to make Byleth a Wyvern Lord and you're pretty much forced to choose to explore more than you really should if you want to make him something that isn't his Unique or a Sword based class. The Budding Talent being Faith and one of the shittier Abilities is adding insult to injury. Also, reminder that Faculty Training does not increase Professor Level.

- The vagueness of recruiting characters is dumb. It is certainly possible to increase Byleth's stats more than you'd typically be able to in a typical Fire Emblem if you choose to explore more often and harvest flower seeds as those can give you the weaker stat boosters to work with but keeping the exact stats needed vague feels unnecessary. The better way to recruit them is to just build up their supports until they join you but this is another dent on Replay value as it's more of a chore to do after you've learned how to maximize recruitment.

- There's some funky shit going on with the class tiers. Pegasus Knight is intermediate and you won't switch to an Advanced class unless you make that unit boost the Axe rank to go Wyvern Ride only to ditch that later if you want to go to Falcon Knight. You decide to have someone go Sniper but then to have them go Bow Knight they'll also need to get Riding to A and Lance to C. Males won't see a Flying class until level 20. Lysithea was overlooked when they made the decision to make Dark Mage male only as Black Magic Uses x 2 doesn't increase the number of times she can cast her Reason magic.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Dr. Tarrasque

[Humanoid]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Tarrasque said:

- There's some funky shit going on with the class tiers. Pegasus Knight is intermediate and you won't switch to an Advanced class unless you make that unit boost the Axe rank to go Wyvern Ride only to ditch that later if you want to go to Falcon Knight. You decide to have someone go Sniper but then to have them go Bow Knight they'll also need to get Riding to A and Lance to C. Males won't see a Flying class until level 20. Lysithea was overlooked when they made the decision to make Dark Mage male only as Black Magic Uses x 2 doesn't increase the number of times she can cast her Reason magic.

Ugh, I only just hit level 10 so I haven't hit this particular annoyance yet, but there's every possibility this might become my biggest complaint in time.

[hadosama]

I don't think the game has to have an automatic fall from grace. Well not a perfect game by any means, it is the best FE game i have played in a long time. The maps are a bit hit and miss, some are really enjoyable (alot of the paralogues in particular, they involved more than just route the enemy or kill boss). Well there presentation can be a bit awkward I find a large number of supports far more enjoyable (for the most part) than i have in a long time. I also generally like the cast. The story well oddly paced at parts (i wish part 2 was longer) is not terrible. The fact that the first thing i did after beating it was start my next route right away says that well not a masterpiece i am enjoying my time with it, and it is a worthy fire emblem title (imo). 

 

My biggest issue is probably the lack of master classes. Specially when compared to the advanced class lineup. This will probably open the door for dlc classes (which sucks) but that is probably my biggest gripe with the game.

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by hadosama