Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists

[Silly]

9 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

 I mean, you kind of miss the gauntletfaire on War Master more in this game than you would in other games, considering Demonic Beast combat is mostly player phase, and there are quite a lot of those to face. This game isn't as enemy phase heavy as the 3ds games, Genealogy, or even the GBA games due to that. 

 We're not discussing whether Raphael is the Seth of this game, we're discussing whether he's usable. Which, frankly, he is, at least on Golden Deer route. Assuming efficiency, you want Byleth to go into one of the two best classes in the game as fast as possible, with perhaps some skill training to pick up white magic (recover/warp/fortify) that you don't have on your team. Neither of the two best classes in the game (falcon knight and wyvern lord, with the first outpacing the second) are ideal for recruiting Raphael's competitors (in regards to super-high strength and axe talent). Caspar wants Brawling, Ferdinand wants Heavy Armor, and Petra wants Riding (which is the easiest of the three to obtain, but will likely never see the light of day if you're F!Byleth.) His only efficient competitor is Sylvain, and only as F!Byleth. Therefore, he at least has some utility besides being a joke character. (Monster Crusher is nice too.)

Raphael is usable because no character is actually straight garbage in this game. Promoting to Wyvern Rider and Wyvern Lord patches his godawful speed enough that he will still be good with effort.

But statistically he is one of the worst units in the game. Somebody has to be the worst, and he is in the running for it. Being one of the worst is not such a bad thing given every unit in this game is usable with a bit of effort, but it's true.

Gauntlets are just not great outside of the early game, and as a result aren't really a significant niche that sets him apart from anyone else (not to mention literally any male can reclass into War Master and pick up gauntlets, but I don't know why you would do that when Wyvern Lord exists and is miles better).

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Silly said:

Raphael is usable because no character is actually straight garbage in this game. Promoting to Wyvern Rider and Wyvern Lord patches his godawful speed enough that he will still be good with effort.

But statistically he is one of the worst units in the game. Somebody has to be the worst, and he is in the running for it. Being one of the worst is not such a bad thing given every unit in this game is usable with a bit of effort, but it's true.

Gauntlets are just not great outside of the early game, and as a result aren't really a significant niche that sets him apart from anyone else (not to mention literally any male can reclass into War Master and pick up gauntlets, but I don't know why you would do that when Wyvern Lord exists and is miles better).

Oh, absolutely he does suck. Just not to the extent and not for the reasons that Shadow Mir was using. You do make a good point with Gauntlets though, I was formerly under the impression that they had the same weight and 1 less might than swords of the same level, which seemed like a good exchange for player phase Brave action. Thank you for bringing to light how actual garbage they are.

Again, like I said in an earlier post, if you want to compare him to an unfavorable GBA class... don't compare him to Fighters, compare him to Knights. 

[Brave Lance]

I made a list. I've finished 3/4 routes, so think of it what you will.

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Brave Lance said:

I made a list. I've finished 3/4 routes, so think of it what you will.

Any explanation for the Flayn and Ferdinand in D tier, and the Raphael in B?

[ra2bk]

37 minutes ago, Brave Lance said:

I made a list. I've finished 3/4 routes, so think of it what you will.

 

Hubert 2 tiers below Annette is... curious. Better Mag, Speed, and Res, access to dark magic (especially Dark Spikes) and dark mage/bishop. Literally the only stat category she's definitively better than him is Dex, which isn't super important. Plus his gambit Mt boost is decent.

I guess if you really like Rally's?

Edited August 8, 2019 by ra2bk

[Silly]

In my big brained, fairly objective opinion, the great physical units are, organized roughly into two tiers:

Dimitri, Petra, Leonie, Felix, Catherine, Claude, Byleth, Edelgard

Steteth, Sylvain, Hilda, Ingrid, Shamir, Cyril

You can of course use other units and be fine, but units in tier 1 are on average the best, while units in tier 2 are pretty good as well.

Most important classes to have easy access to are Bow Knight and Wyvern Lord, as they are objectively just the best physical options. Most important stats to have high bases and growths in are Spd and Strength (most important), then Def, Dex, and finally HP. Res is occasionally relevant. Lck and Cha are basically dump stats.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Silly

[Garlyle]

I put together a list of things that might be considered when we decide where units should be in tier lists. These include skills, magic, crests and some stats. A bit long, so I put it all in the spoilers beow.

Spoiler

 

Byleth
High Str[13(45%)] and Luck[8(45%)], overall highest bases. 30-45% growth rates.
Sword(D+): Bane of Monsters(C+), Windsweep(A)
Brawl(E+): Draining Blow(C+), Mystic Blow(A)
Authority(D): Battalion Vantage(C), Model Leader(C+), Battalion Renewal(A)
Personal Ability: Multiplies this unit’s and adjacent allies’ experience earned by 1.2.
Budding Talent: White Magic Avoid +20(Faith) - Grants Avo +20 when using white magic.
Reason: Fire(D), Thunder(D+), Bolganone(C), Ragnarok(A)
Faith: Recover(C), Aura(A)
Crest: Occasionally restores HP equal to 30% of damage dealt. Rarely raises Mt and stops counterattacks.
Note: Gets unique class Enlightened One and personal weapon Sword of the Creator

Edelgard
High Str[13(45%)] and Charm[10(60%)], very good growth rates, except low Luck
Sword(E+): Haze Strike(C+), Hexblade(A)
Axe(D): Monster Breaker(C+), Lightning Axe(A)
Authority(D): Battalion Vantage(C), Model Leader(C+), Battalion Renewal(A), Rally Charm(S)
Armor(D)
Personal Ability: Multiplies experience earned by 1.2.
Budding Talent: Black Magic Crit +10(Reason) - Grants Crit +10 when using black magic.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C), Luna(B), Hades(A)
Faith: Recover(C), Seraphim(B)
Crest: Occasionally raises Mt when using combat arts.

Hubert
High Mag[12(55%)] and Res[7(40%)], low physical stats
Bow(E+): Heavy Draw(C+), Schism Shot(A)
Authority(E+): Rally Magic(D), Battalion Wrath(C), Rally Resistance(C+), Battalion Desperation(A), Rally Speed(S)
Personal Ability: Grants Mt +5 with gambits.
Budding Talent: Frozen Lance(Lance) - A magic attack. Mt increases based on unit’s Dex.
Reason(D): Miasma(D), Mire(D+), Banshee(C), Death(B), Dark Spikes(A)
Faith: Recover(C)

Dorothea
High Mag[11(40%)] and Res[7(35%)], low Strength and Defense
Sword(E+): Hexblade(C+)
Personal Ability: Adjacent allies recover up to 10% of max HP at the start of each turn.
Budding Talent: White Magic Avoid +20(Faith) - Grants Avo +20 when using white magic.
Reason(D): Thunder(D), Thoron(C), Sagittae(B), Meteor(A), Agnea’s Arrow(A+)
Faith: Physic(C)

Ferdinand
High Hp[28(50%)] and Spd[8(50%)], low Resistance
Sword(E+): Sunder(C+)
Lance(D): Shatter Slash(C+), Swift Strikes(A)
Axe(E+): Focused Strike(C+), Armored Strike(A)
Riding(D)
Personal Ability: Grants Hit/Avo +15 when unit is at full HP.
Budding Talent: Seal Speed(Heavy Armor) - If unit damages foe during combat, foe suffers Spd -6 for 1 turn after combat.
Reason: Thunder(D), Fire(D+), Thoron(C), Bolganone(B)
Faith: Ward(C), Restore(B)
Crest: Sometimes lets combat arts prevent enemy counterattacks.

Bernadetta
High Spd[7(55%)] and Dex[7(50%)], weak defensive stats
Bow(D): Deadeye(C+), Encloser(A)
Lance(E+): Vengeance(C+)
Personal Ability: Grants Atk +5 when unit is not at full HP.
Budding Talent: Pass(Riding) - Allows unit to pass through spaces occupied by foes.
Reason: Blizzard(D), Thunder(D+), Thoron(C), Fimbulvetr(A)
Faith: Physic(C), Rescue(A)
Crest: Occasionally allows weapon attacks to strike twice.

Caspar
High Hp[26(55%)], Str[9(45%)] and Luck[8(45%)]
Axe(D): Wild Abandon(C+), Exhaustive Strike(A)
Brawl(E+): Bombard(C+), Mighty Blow(A)
Personal Ability: Adjacent foes suffer Avo -10 during combat.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C)
Faith: Recover(C)

Petra
High Dex[7(50%)] and Spd[10(60%)], overall good physical stats
Sword(D+): Bane of Monsters(C+), Finesse Blade(A)
Axe(E+): Wild Abandon(C+), Diamond Axe(A)
Bow(E+): Waning Shot(C+)
Personal Ability: Grants Crit +20 when foe’s HP is ? 50%.
Reason: Wind(D), Sagittae(C)
Faith: Restore(C)

Linhardt
High Mag[10(45%)], Luck[7(45%)] and Res[9(45%)]
Personal Ability: If unit takes no action except Wait, recovers up to 10% of max HP.
Reason(E+): Wind(D), Fire(D+), Cutting Gale(C), Bolganone(B), Excalibur(A)
Faith(D+): Physic(C), Restore(B), Warp(A)
Crest: Sometimes raises Mt when using recovery magic.

Dimitri
High Hp[28(55%)], Str[12(60%)], Def[7(40%)] and Charm[9(55%)]
Sword(E+): Sunder(C+), Windsweep(A)
Lance(D+): Monster Piercer(C+), Glowing Ember(A)
Authorit(D): Battalion Wrath(C), Model Leader(C+), Battalion Vantage(A), Rally Charm(S)
Riding(D+)
Personal Ability: Multiplies experience earned by 1.2.
Budding Talent: Seal Movement(Riding) - If unit damages foe during combat, foe suffers Mv -1 for 1 turn after combat.
Reason: Thunder(D), Thoron(C)
Faith: Recover(C), Aura(A)
Crest: Occasionally doubles Atk and weapon uses for combat arts.

Dedue
High Hp[30(60%)], Str[12(50%)] and Def[8(50%)], low Speed and Resistance
Lance(E+): Vengeance(C+)
Axe(D+): Monster Breaker(C+), Armored Strike(A)
Brawl(E+): One-Two Punch(C+), Mighty Blow(A)
Personal Ability: If unit takes no action except Wait, grants Def +4 for 1 turn.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C), Ragnarok(A)
Faith: Recover(C)

Felix
High Str[10(55%)] and Spd[9(55%)], low Resistance and Charm
Sword(D): Sunder(C+), Finesse Blade(A)
Bow(E+): Heavy Draw(C+)
Brawl(E+): Nimble Combo(C+), Mystic Blow (A)
Personal Ability: Unit deals 5 extra damage when no battalion is assigned or when battalion endurance is 0.
Budding Talent: Black Magic Crit +10(Reason) - Grants Crit +10 when using black magic.
Reason: Thunder(D), Thoron(C)
Faith: Recover(C), Restore(B)
Crest: Sometimes raises Mt when using a weapon.

Mercedes
High Mag[10(50%)] and Res[9(45%)], low Luck
Personal Ability: When healing an ally with white magic, unit recovers the same amount of HP.
Budding Talent: Waning Shot(Bow) - Enemies hit by this attack suffer -5 Str for 1 turn.
Reason(E+): Fire(D), Thunder(D+), Bolganone(C), Ragnarok(A)
Faith(D): Physic(C), Restore(B), Fortify(A)
Crest: Occasionally conserves uses of recovery magic.

Ashe
High Dex[8(55%)] and Spd[9(50%)], low Hp
Axe(E+): Focused Strike(C+)
Bow(D): Deadeye(C+), Waning Shot(A)
Personal Ability: Allows unit to open doors and chests without keys.
Budding Talent: Shatter Smash(Lance) - Enemies hit by this attack suffer -5 Def for 1 turn.
Reason: Wind(D), Cutting Gale(C)
Faith: Physic(C)

Annette
High Mag[11(50%)] and good Dex[7(50%)], low Hp
Axe(E+): Lightning Axe (C+)
Authority(E+): Rally Resistance(D), Battalion Renewal(C), Rally Speed(C+), Battalion Wrath(A), Rally Movement (S)
Personal Ability: Use Rally to grant Str +4 to an ally.
Reason(D+): Wind(D), Cutting Gale(C), Sagittae(B), Excalibur(A)
Faith: Recover(C), Abraxas(A)
Crest: Occasionally conserves uses of attack magic.

Sylvain
High Hp[27(55%)], Spd[8(50%)] and good Def[6(40%)], bad Dexterity
Lance(D): Monster Piercer(C+), Swift Strikes(A)
Axe(D): Spike(C+), Lightning Axe(A)
Riding(D)
Personal Ability: If a female ally is adjacent, unit deals 2 extra damage and takes 2 less damage during combat.
Budding Talent: Black Magic Avo +20(Reason) - Grants Avo +20 when using black magic.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C), Sagittae(B), Ragnarok(A)
Faith: Physic(C), Seraphim(B)
Crest: Occasionally raises Mt when using combat arts.

Ingrid
High Spd[8(60%)] and Res[8(40%)]
Sword(E+): Hexblade(A)
Lance(D): Hit and Run(C), Frozen Lance(A)
Riding(D)
Flying(D)
Personal Ability: Grants Mt +3 and Hit +5 with gambits.
Reason: Blizzard(D), Thoron(C), Fimbulvetr(A)
Faith: Physic(C), Seraphim(B)
Crest: Sometimes raises Mt when using combat arts.

Claude
High Dex[8(60%)], Spd[8(55%)] and Charm[8(55%)], high starting Str of 11
Sword(E+): Bane of Monsters(C+), Finesse Blade(A)
Bow(D): Monster Blast(C+), Encloser(A)
Authority(D): Battalion Desperation(C), Model Leader(C+), Battalion Wrath(A), Rally Charm(S)
Riding(E+)
Flying(E+)
Personal Ability: Multiplies experience earned by 1.2.
Budding Talent: Diamond Axe(Axe) - A powerful attack that greatly increases Mt.
Reason: Wind(D), Sagittae(C), Cutting Gale(B), Excalibur(A)
Faith: Recover(C), Silence(A)
Crest: Sometimes restores HP equal to 30% of damage dealt when using combat arts.

Lorenz
High Hp[28(55%)] and Res[6(40%)], bad Charm
Lance(D): Frozen Lance(C+)    
Riding(D)
Personal Ability: Unit deals 2 extra damage while in formation with a battalion.
Reason(E+): Fire(D), Sagittae(C), Ragnarok(B), Agnea’s Arrow(A)
Faith: Recover(C), Ward(B)
Crest: Occasionally raises Mt during magic attacks.

Hilda
High Hp[29(50%)], Spd[8(50%)] and Charm[7(50%)], comes with bad Dexterity
Lance(E+): Shatter Slash(C+)
Axe(D): Spike(C+), Diamond Axe(A)
Personal Ability: Adjacent male allies deal 3 extra damage during combat.
Budding Talent: Seal Speed(Heavy Armor) - If unit damages foe during combat, foe suffers Spd -6 for 1 turn after combat.
Reason: Thunder(D), Thoron(C), Bolting(A)
Faith: Recover(C)
Crest: Sometimes allows combat arts to prevent enemy counterattacks.

Raphael
High Hp[30(65%)], Str[11(50%)] and Def[7(45%)], bad Speed and Resistance
Axe(E+): Wild Abandon(C+)
Brawl(D): Monster Crusher(C+), Draining Blow(A)
Armor(D)
Personal Ability: Chance to recover up to 10% of max HP at the start of each turn. Trigger % = Lck stat.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C)
Faith: Recover(C)

Lysithea
High Mag[11(60%)], Dex[7(60%)] and Spd[7(50%)], very low defensive stats
Authority(E+): 
Personal Ability: Doubles skill experience earned in battle.
Budding Talent: Soulblade(Sword) - A magic attack. Mt increases based on unit’s Res.
Reason(D): Miasma(D), Swarm(D+), Luna(C), Dark Spikes(B), Hades(A)
Faith(E+): Seraphim(C), Warp(B), Abraxas(A)
Crest: Occasionally raises Mt during magic attacks.
Occasionally raises Mt when using combat arts.

Ignatz
High Spd[8(50%)] and Luck[8(55%)] and good Dex[7(50%)]
Sword(E+): Haze Slice(C+)
Bow(D): Break Shot(C+), Ward Arrow(A)
Authority(E+): Rally Speed(D), Battalion Desperation(C), Rally Dexterity(C+), Battalion Vantage(A), Rally Strength(S)
Personal Ability: Grants Hit +20.
Budding Talent: Seal Strength(Reason) - If unit damages foe during combat, foe suffers Str -6 for 1 turn after combat.
Reason: Blizzard(D), Cutting Gale(C), Fimbulvetr(A)
Faith: Physic(C), Ward(B)

Marianne
High Mag[11(50%)] and Res[8(45%)]
Sword(E+): Soulblade(C+)
Personal Ability: Unit recovers up to 20% of max HP at the start of each turn when adjacent to a cavalry or flying ally.
Budding Talent: Frozen Lance(Lance) - A magic attack. Mt increases based on unit’s Dex.
Reason: Blizzard(D), Thoron(C), Cutting Gale(B), Fimbulvetr(A)
Faith(D+): Physic(C), Silence(B), Aura(A)
Crest: Sometimes raises Mt when using a weapon.

Leonie
High Dex[8(55%)] and Spd[9(60%)] and good Def[7(40%)]
Lance(D+): Monster Piercer(C+), Lance Jab(A)
Bow(E+): Break Shot(C+), Point-Blank Volley(A)
Riding(E+)
Personal Ability: If a male ally is adjacent, unit deals 2 extra damage and takes 2 less damage during combat.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C), Ragnarok(A)
Faith: Physic(C), Restore(B)

Manuela
High Spd[(60%)] and Charm[7(50%)], good starting Str and Mag
Sword(D): Hexblade(C+)
Flying(D)
Personal Ability: Adjacent allies gain Crit Avo +10 during combat.
Reason: Thunder(D), Bolganone(C), Bolting(A)
Faith(C): Ward(C), Silence(B), Warp(A)

Hanneman
High Mag[10(55%)] and Res[7(40%)]
Bow(D): Schism Shot(C+), Ward Arrow (A)
Authority(D): Battalion Desperation(C)
Riding(D)
Personal Ability: Use Rally to grant Mag +4 to an ally.
Reason(C): Wind(D), Sagittae(C), Thoron(B), Ragnarok(A), Meteor(A+)
Faith: Recover(C), Ward(B)

Seteth
High Dex[8(50%)], overall average stats, slow starting speed
Sword(D+): Haze Slice(C+)
Lance(C): Monster Piercer(C+), Swift Strikes(A)
Axe(C): Focused Strike(C+), Diamond Axe(A)
Authority(C): Rally Defence(D), Battalion Wrath(C), Model Leader(C+), Battalion Desperation(A), Rally Resistance(S)
Flying(C)
Personal Ability: Adjacent female allies deal 3 extra damage during combat.
Reason: Wind(D), Cutting Gale(C), Bolganone(B), Excalibur(A)
Faith: Recover(C)
Crest: Sometimes lets combat arts prevent enemy counterattacks.

Flayn
High Mag[9(55%)], Res[10(50%)] and Charm [9(45%)]
Lance(E+): Hit and Run(C+), Frozen Lance(A)
Flying(D)
Personal Ability: Adjacent allies take 3 less damage during combat.
Budding Talent: Seal Magic(Reason) - If unit damages foe during combat, foe suffers Mag -6 for 1 turn after combat.
Reason: Wind(D), Fire(D+), Cutting Gale(C), Excalibur(A)
Faith(D+): Restore(C), Rescue(B), Fortify(A)
Crest: Sometimes raises Mt when using recovery magic.

Cyril
Overall bad bases and growths, highest growths is Dex and Spd with 40%
Lance: Vengeance(C+), Lance Jab(A)
Axe(D+): Monster Breaker(C+), Armored Strike(A)
Bow(D): Point-Blank Volley(C+)
Personal Ability: Makes each stat 20% more likely to increase on level up.
Reason: Wind(D), Cutting Gale(C)
Faith: Recover(C)

Catherine
High Hp[27(50%)], Str[8(50%)] and Spd[7(55%)]
Sword(B): Bane of Monsters(C+), Finesse Blade(A)
Brawl(D+): Nimble Combo(C+), Bombard(A)
Authority(D): Battalion Vantage(C)
Personal Ability: Unit takes 5 less damage when no battalion is assigned or when battalion endurance is 0.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C), Ragnarok(A)
Faith: Recover (C)
Crest: Occasionally raises Mt when using combat arts.
Note: Starts with Thunderbrand

Alois
High Hp[28(45%)] and Def[5(40%)]
Axe(C): Spike(C+), Exhaustive Strike(A)
Brawl(D+): One-Two Punch(C+), Mighty Blow(A)
Authority(C): Rally Strength(D), Battalion Wrath(C)
Armor(C)
Personal Ability: Use Rally to grant Lck +8 to an ally.
Reason: Fire(D), Bolganone(C)
Faith: Recover(C)

Gilbert
High Hp[30(55%)] and Def[5(45%)]
Lance(C): Shatter Slash(C+), Glowing Ember(A)
Axe(C): Spike(C+)
Authority(D+): Rally Defence(D), Battalion Wrath(C)
Armor(D)
Riding(C)
Personal Ability: Unit takes 2 less damage while in formation with a battalion.
Reason: Thunder(D), Thoron(C)
Faith: Ward(C)

Shamir
High Dex[7(55%)] and Luck[8(55%)]
Lance(D+): Hit and Run(C+), Lance Jab(A)
Bow(B): Heavy Draw(C+), Monster Blast(A)
Authority(D): Battalion Desperation(C)
Personal Ability: If unit initiates combat and defeats foe, grants Str/Mag/Dex/Spd +4 for one turn.
Reason: Blizzard(D), Wind(D+), Sagittae(C), Fimbulvetr(A)
Faith: Physic(C)

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

12 hours ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Again, like I said in an earlier post, if you want to compare him to an unfavorable GBA class... don't compare him to Fighters, compare him to Knights. 

Except he dump stats pretty much everything else in favor of HP and Strength - not unlike a GBA fighter. Also, I picked fighters because as far as the GBA games go, they had the worst track record overall; sure, knights weren't good either, other than Oswin, but... well, Oswin alone is enough for me to consider then better overall, despite Binding Blade having armors as the worst class (not that fighters were any better there, because they weren't; incidentally, knights being so bad in Binding Blade was more due to it being Horse Emblem than anything else).

[0 Def Cleric]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Except he dump stats pretty much everything else in favor of HP and Strength - not unlike a GBA fighter. Also, I picked fighters because as far as the GBA games go, they had the worst track record overall; sure, knights weren't good either, other than Oswin, but... well, Oswin alone is enough for me to consider then better overall, despite Binding Blade having armors as the worst class (not that fighters were any better there, because they weren't; incidentally, knights being so bad in Binding Blade was more due to it being Horse Emblem than anything else).

I mean, he has a 45% personal DEF growth. That isn't something I'd call a "dump stat", would you? 

[Vorena]

 

14 hours ago, Silly said:

In my big brained, fairly objective opinion, the great physical units are, organized roughly into two tiers:

Dimitri, Petra, Leonie, Felix, Catherine, Claude, Byleth, Edelgard

Steteth, Sylvain, Hilda, Ingrid, Shamir, Cyril

You can of course use other units and be fine, but units in tier 1 are on average the best, while units in tier 2 are pretty good as well.

Most important classes to have easy access to are Bow Knight and Wyvern Lord, as they are objectively just the best physical options. Most important stats to have high bases and growths in are Spd and Strength (most important), then Def, Dex, and finally HP. Res is occasionally relevant. Lck and Cha are basically dump stats.

That could honestly be upper tier. Magic units really should never be top tier due to how slow they are for so long. 4 mov vs 5-8 movement from lv10-30 is such a huge portion of the game. By the time you even get them to riding you its likely flyer emblem anyway. Trying to slow yourself down to use them on every turn is showing you the hindrance they possess. 

I'd put this down for magic units.

Dorothea, Lysithea, 

Linhardt, Mercedes, Hubert, Marianne

Annette, Manuela.

Annette has the worst speed with absolutely no 3+ range magic of any sort in either faith or reason. Mercedes, Linhardt, and Marianne have an okay speed with decent magic with useful long range white magic in say Physic, Fortify, Warp. Marianne doesn't get any of that, but at least she gets physic. Therefore, even with low movement they can contribute to a map even when far behind. Lysithea has the best combat related stats in the highest magic and speed for magic units enabling OHKO or doubling on many units. However, she suffers from having no 3-range magic, but she does get Warp and obtaining it at an earlier rank than Linhardt. Dorothea just sort of gets useful many things. C reason = 1-3 Thoron. A rank is meteor. Access to physic for recovery in faith at C. Good enough speed and magic.

I might be putting too much emphasis on long range magic, but in general any magic unit can say nuke the **** out of stuff if they can double. I am not sure of any benchmarks where mag/spd are needed to get good combat, but at the same time if a unit is not in range of anything due to low movement or lack of range they are borderline useless. There are other magic units to field, but arguably those are physical units turned magical and would do better off in a physical class.

Edit: I forgot about Manuela and Flayn. Manuela is probably at the bottom with Annette and Flayn I would just consider your dance bot rather than white magic user.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Vorena

[0 Def Cleric]

3 minutes ago, Vorena said:

Annette has the worst speed with absolutely no 3+ range magic of any sort in either faith or reason.

Annette has double Rally, though. 

Also, I'd argue the point of magic units never being top tier due to movement moot to Faith users with Physic or Fortify. And the fact that they're the only ones that make warpskipping possible at all. Lysithea at least I would argue for top tier thanks to an excellent magic growth making her Warp more effective and Warp coming a full level early, when it takes a considerable amount of time to get to A tier as opposed to her B. 

(You also missed Flayn in your ranking outright.)

[Shadow Mir]

32 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

I mean, he has a 45% personal DEF growth. That isn't something I'd call a "dump stat", would you? 

I said "pretty much" everything else, meaning almost everything else. Anyway, that ain't enough for me to overlook sucking almost everywhere else.

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

I said "pretty much" everything else, meaning almost everything else. Anyway, that ain't enough for me to overlook sucking almost everywhere else.

Yes, but considering the stats he's good in are those that GBA Knights tend to be good in, and the ones he's awful in tend to be the ones they're awful in, wouldn't you say that he's better compared to that title? I've said that he sucks already, just that he's not your typical fighter type of suck. 

[Vorena]

16 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Annette has double Rally, though. 

Also, I'd argue the point of magic units never being top tier due to movement moot to Faith users with Physic or Fortify. And the fact that they're the only ones that make warpskipping possible at all. Lysithea at least I would argue for top tier thanks to an excellent magic growth making her Warp more effective and Warp coming a full level early, when it takes a considerable amount of time to get to A tier as opposed to her B. 

(You also missed Flayn in your ranking outright.)

Would you go out of your way to recruit Annette for rally strats? Flayn I am not sure. Is it more physical or magic? I treat her as the designated dance unit because everyone else has some alternative path they can be optimized for such as combat in magic or physical. She comes underleveled and under wexp trained and at a time where you'll be getting dancer soon. The white magic compared to dancing is a perk when she has nothing else to do as usually dance > physic, rescue, fortify. Any other unit I cannot really think to move them into dancing as it would be awkward to throw double utility into a unit that can't make use of it. Combat + Dancing?

I suppose Lysithea would be the only high tier magic unit for Warp since B rank can be achieved before reaching lv20 where most units will unlock the wyvern or +6 movement classes along with all the great combat early on when lower movement is not a huge deal still. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Vorena

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Vorena said:

Would you go out of your way to recruit Annette for rally strats? Flayn I am not sure. Is it more physical or magic? I treat her as the designated dance unit because everyone else has some alternative path they can be optimized for such as combat in magic or physical. She comes underleveled and under wexp trained and at a time where you'll be getting dancer soon. The white magic compared to dancing is a perk when she has nothing else to do as usually dance > physic, rescue, fortify. Any other unit I cannot really think to move them into dancing as it would be awkward to throw double utility into a unit that can't make use of it. Combat + Dancing?

I suppose Lysithea would be the only high tier magic unit for Warp since B rank can be achieved before reaching lv20 where most units will unlock the wyvern or +6 movement classes along with all the great combat early on when lower movement is not a huge deal still. 

Flayn gets some pretty fantastic Faith spells in Restore/Fortify/Rescue. Other than that she's trash. (Her growths are more magical, also). And nah, I wouldn't recruit Annette for that, but she has considerable utility, and deserves, like, a bit above "worst tier" for that at least.

Also, I'm pretty sure that warping a wyvern into the front lines is more effective than having them spend two turns getting to where they need to go, so A rank still isn't unreasonable. It's just that Lysithea having it early and fantastic combat as well for the time she's acting as a combat unit that makes her ridiculously good. 

[Vorena]

1 minute ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Flayn gets some pretty fantastic Faith spells in Restore/Fortify/Rescue. Other than that she's trash. (Her growths are more magical, also). And nah, I wouldn't recruit Annette for that, but she has considerable utility, and deserves, like, a bit above "worst tier" for that at least.

Also, I'm pretty sure that warping a wyvern into the front lines is more effective than having them spend two turns getting to where they need to go, so A rank still isn't unreasonable. It's just that Lysithea having it early and fantastic combat as well for the time she's acting as a combat unit that makes her ridiculously good. 

Who would replace Annette? What do you have in mind for the worst magic user?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Vorena

[0 Def Cleric]

Just now, Vorena said:

Who would replace Annette? What do you have in mind for the worst magic user?

Probably Hubert. Mire utility doesn't matter when he only has 7 effective spaces of range even with it from his starting location in Mounted Emblem. Rally Mag/Res obviously isn't as good as, you know, Rally Str/Spd/Mov that Annette gets. His only utility is possibly increasing the warp range of a unit by 2. 

Manuela gets warp, so she automatically is decent tier. Silence has some nice utility too with preventing the spontaneous combustion of your dragon team. 

[De Geso]

18 hours ago, Tharne said:

Just finished my BE playthrough (Edelgard's route) where I only used Teach + BE students.

For the Battles/Victories stats they were all pretty close to each other (93 to 114 victories) except Linhardt at 63.

If I had to rank them from how they performed throughout the game :

1 - Edelgard (Brigand->Warrior->unique->unique) Hits like a truck but wasn't really that tanky.
2 - Byleth (Pegasus Knight->Falcon Knight) Good mix defenses, very good speed/dex/strengh. (Still tends to gain a lot less Spd than Dex even though I had more % in Spd, oh well)
3 - Hubert (Mage->Warlock->Dark Knight) That dude carried the second half like a boss especially the last few maps.
4 - Caspar (Brigand->Grappler->War Master) Choose any target, send in Caspar, target dead. A little less tanky than Edelgard, but more crits/avoid.
5(tie) - Dorothea (Mage->Warlock->Gremori) Gets the job well done, magic is strong in this route.
5(tie) - Ferdinand (Cavalier->Paladin) Wasn't lucky at all in Str, in the first 20 lvl he gained 5 points...still the rest was above decent (Spd especially even though he was Cav/Pal). As Tanky as Caspar just less punch.
7 - Petra (Thief->Assassin) Okay I don't really know what happened, she was strong before timeskip and then poof...she can double anything...except she can't kill anything.
8 - Linhardt (Priest->Bishop->Dark Knight) HEALING! (Useful in the last few maps too because so many high Def/low Res targets)
9 - Bernadetta (Archer->Sniper-Bow Knight) Firing wet noodles isn't very fun, useful for the very few Flyers you fight in this route (almost none except one chapter and one paralogue).

So yeah.

I think based on the route some students will perform a lot better because there is not the same types of enemies.
 

Edit : And I think apart from Byleth, I got screwed on a lot of them, I had a lot (and I really mean a lot) of 2-3 stats level up where it was almost always HP + Luck/Res/Cha...The best level ups I got were during the last map and I was pretty amazed to see them.

Your Edelgard definitely got screwed if she wasn't tanky. Mine takes 0 damage from Steels and single digit from Silvers - she has only died to an unlucky 7% critical so far. Bernadetta is also doing quite well for me. On the other hand, Caspar is a joke who gets doubled by everything. Funny how RNG works.

[Tharne]

11 minutes ago, De Geso said:

Your Edelgard definitely got screwed if she wasn't tanky. Mine takes 0 damage from Steels and single digit from Silvers - she has only died to an unlucky 7% critical so far. Bernadetta is also doing quite well for me. On the other hand, Caspar is a joke who gets doubled by everything. Funny how RNG works.

63/29/19 at lvl 41. Don't know if it's good or bad.

[De Geso]

25 minutes ago, Tharne said:

63/29/19 at lvl 41. Don't know if it's good or bad.

Mine has 52/30/14 level 29. Certainly stat screwed (or blessed on my part; I don't know the averages).

Edited August 9, 2019 by De Geso

[Silly]

In terms of magic users, the magic classes themselves are kind of bad, since they're squishy and are locked to 4 move for the majority of the game. However, magic itself is important enough that you probably want a couple of units that can use magic for its utility.

I generally like having two physic users deployed on maps. Magic users that don't get physic are much, much worse at actually healing, because needing to be next to someone to heal them when you have 4 move is awful and gameplay-wise makes you contort your unit movement significantly away from what is normally optimal.

I think Lindhart might actually be the best utility mage. He get access to Physic at C as well as Warp at A, which are both very useful spells. Notably, he is a male, so he cannot access Gremory. If you want to have two warps, you need to be a Bishop, in all its 4 move glory. Marianne and Mercedes are a probably a bit worse because Warp is better than their other strengths, but still pack the same utility in being a physic bot that can occasionally nuke an enemy. Marianne notably has Thoron (as well as a strength in riding to reach the ranks for master tier the easiest), whereas Mercedes learns Fortify. Dorothea can also do work here, with access to Thoron and Meteor being other very important spells in addition to her Physic. All these mages are perfectly good units and you want at least one of them (and imo probably the second) on your team.

Mages that don't learn Physic are supplemental to your one/two physic users. Of them Lysithea is definitely the best by far. She is by far the fastest to learn Warp, since B rank is a lot less exp than A rank (since later ranks take more exp to unlock), and her personal ability doubles her faith exp in battle. With dedicated training, you could have warp as early as chapter 4 or 5, which greatly speeds up the clears for those maps (assuming you want to just go and kill the boss). And her offensive growths are the highest, so if you want to kill someone dead she is the most reliable. Then Hubert for good offensive growths and 1-3 range. Then Annette, who has nothing really going for her, then Hanneman, who is incredibly, incredibly slow and might as well just be a walking Meteor.

[ra2bk]

52 minutes ago, Tharne said:

63/29/19 at lvl 41. Don't know if it's good or bad.

If that's HP/D/Res, then not screwed, about average for all 3. At most 1 or 2 points on D below average.

[timon]

4 hours ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Annette has double Rally, though. 

Also, I'd argue the point of magic units never being top tier due to movement moot to Faith users with Physic or Fortify. And the fact that they're the only ones that make warpskipping possible at all. Lysithea at least I would argue for top tier thanks to an excellent magic growth making her Warp more effective and Warp coming a full level early, when it takes a considerable amount of time to get to A tier as opposed to her B. 

(You also missed Flayn in your ranking outright.)

Did you ever need a rally in this game though? Maybe in Lunatic, but as long as it's just Hard it's just irrelevant, I rally only when I have a dead turn because it raises support. Same thing for Warp, how relevant is it? Obviously having it makes a unit much better, but even then, we have stride and by the end of the game most units have high range and/or high movements, I don't think it's as big as we're making it seem.

About Annette, maybe I'm bias because mine is really, really garbage. For comparison, Hanneman became a better mage. But in general, she just doesn't hit hard at all, ever, sure her magic is decent, but she doesn't get spells. And she's made of paper, even opposing mages deal big damage (and when you have 32 HP at level 30 it's BAD), at least Linhardt (who hits for similar non-damage) has sky high Res and decent health.
Also I repeat the importance of spell list, she's probably the worst among dedicated mages? Excalibur is obviously amazing, but by the point you get it your other mages have enough Magic to take down Wyvern even without effectivness, and you're not killing Falcons with magic anyways.

Here's how I see magic users:
Top: Lysithea (just the best, and best spell list by far), Dorothea (not great magic, but second best spell list)
Good: Hubert (he's a nuke, good speed, third best spell list), Marianne (she works like a healer but still hits like a truck)
Average: Linhardt (crest is good for healing, the rest is unremarkable), Lorenz (Sagittae, Ragnarok, Agnea's Arrow), Mercedes (probably best healer, but that's it)
Bad: Annette (see above), Flayn (she joins too late, you have someone better for sure), Ignatz/Sylvain (I've seen them used as mages, not the best)
Hanneman: Hanneman (you know he's bad, but you're still using him because he's cool)

I'm not counting Manuela because 35 growth is not enough for a mage. I mean she joins with more Strength than Magic, she's made for Pegasus tbh. Shame because she gets bolting.

tl;dr: I honestly can't think of a worse mage than Annette in this game (among students I mean).

[Silly]

One thing to note is that there are two main roles that mages need to fill in your party.

One is healing, the other is dealing with problem enemies on player phase.

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In terms of healing, you definitely need at least one physic mage on your team, in my opinion, and I personally like to have two.

Mages that do not have access to physic are just hot garbage at healing. It's very, very unrealistic for you to expect for 4 move mage to always be next to the person they are trying to heal. And positioning to heal someone without physic simply screws with your movements too much to be optimal. In terms of healing, this is basically just a binary thing. Do you have physic? If so you're a good healer. Do you not have physic? If so, you're probably not a good healer. Your actual magic stat doesn't matter too much, because the difference between the common mages only ends up being the difference of a few points of healing here and there.

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In terms of combat, the big traits you're looking for is enough speed to reliably double or enough magic to just one-shot the enemy without needing to double. Basically you just want your mage to actually do their job of killing one thing on player phase. Afterwards, having 1-3 range is good. And access to meteor is a nice bonus as well.

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Finally, this isn't a necessary role that you need to fill in your party, but is very nice to have: access to Warp makes some maps go by a lot easier. The big winners here are Lysithea (who is the best warper in the game) and Lindhart (who also provides good healing utility due to physic). I don't really count Manuela here because she is the worst warper and doesn't contribute very much outside of warp.

[Skarthe]

8 hours ago, Vorena said:

I'd put this down for Lysithea has the best combat related stats in the highest magic and speed for magic units enabling OHKO or doubling on many units. However, she suffers from having no 3-range magic, but she does get Warp and obtaining it at an earlier rank than Linhardt.

Keep in mind that Lysithea also has a budding talent in Swords, allowing her to use forged Levin Swords for 1-3 range. Also, assuming the player also has Lorenz and does his paralogue, all of Lysithea's magic becomes 1-4 range.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Skarthe