Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists

[Flere210]

6 minutes ago, leesangstar10 said:

Lol you can just save scum since you can save right before the exam and reset if you fail. 

I am assuming no savescum because it feels like cheating and it trivialize the class system.

[leesangstar10]

20 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

Optimal plays. No luck based strats using divine pulse or killing one enemy each turn.

lol I assume optimal plays. Save scumming is optimal jkjk

[Silly]

6 hours ago, leesangstar10 said:

 Not to sound like an asshole, but investment isn't really opinion since there is set number to reach that rank. Making her into a Pegasus knight will require you to tutor almost every week by chapter 7-8 and if you want her to become a Falcon Knight, she is basically stuck as that class until then. Additionally doing this makes her incredible combat utility in mid game worse. Personally I find her sticking as sword master with a march ring through the whole game is the best. I am think creating a basic guideline on what is considered lots of investment and what is no investment once the data for that is all out. I put her in A so personally I think this is the right tier.

Right below top tier is a fine spot, but I'm going to point out that Pegasus Knight is not a hard class to certify for.

D Flying only requires 100 weapon exp. D+ Lance comes at 180 weapon exp. You can stick around to train lances up to C, but at D Flying, D+ Lance you have pretty good odds of certifying for Pegasus Knight at this point. At that point, if you are okay with resetting for the certification, or okay with occasionally wasting an intermediate seal (you should get plenty of them, since every mid-game recruitable unit joins with a free seal), you can just take the exam.

Now how long does this actually take to achieve? Let's say that you recruit Catherine at the start of Chapter 7. If you do nothing but switch her focus to Lance + Flying immediately, at the end of Chapter 8 (before you enter the main mission) she will have 168 exp in Flying and 168 exp in Lances. This is not taking into account any experience from personal tutoring, any experience from fighting in auxiliary battles/paralogues with a lance, and any weapon exp bonuses from the renown statues (the lance bonus comes from the Cethleann statue, which should be the first one you're purchasing anyways since it has class mastery +1).

In conclusion, it's entirely possible to hit Pegasus Knight before chapter 8 with minimal effort.

---------------------------------

Also, her "mid game" contributions are probably actually better as a Pegasus Knight. Catherine's base stats are pretty ridiculous, and she doesn't actually need the Swordmaster class to kill enemies on Hard difficulty. The offensive difference between the two classes is 6 damage, but you're often overkilling all but the bulkiest enemies, so the extra 6 damage per hit isn't necessary. You can either be a 5 move foot unit that ORKOs enemies, or be a 6 move flier that ORKOs enemies. The choice here is obvious. The March Ring helps your mobility as a Swordmaster, but it also helps your mobility as a Pegasus Knight (in fact, it probably helps even more, since more move on a flier is better than more move on a unit that takes terrain penalties).

Edited August 19, 2019 by Silly

[leesangstar10]

5 minutes ago, Silly said:

Right below top tier is a fine spot, but I'm going to point out that Pegasus Knight is not a hard class to certify for.

D Flying only requires 100 weapon exp. D+ Lance comes at 180 weapon exp. You can stick around to train lances up to C, but at D Flying, D+ Lance you have pretty good odds of certifying for Pegasus Knight at this point. At that point, if you are okay with resetting for the certification, or okay with occasionally wasting an intermediate seal (you should get plenty of them, since every mid-game recruitable unit joins with a free seal), you can just take the exam.

Now how long does this actually take to achieve? Let's say that you recruit Catherine at the start of Chapter 7. If you do nothing but switch her focus to Lance + Flying immediately, at the end of Chapter 8 (before you enter the main mission) she will have 168 exp in Flying and 168 exp in Lances. This is not taking into account any experience from personal tutoring, any experience from fighting in auxiliary battles/paralogues with a lance, and any weapon exp bonuses from the renown statues (the lance bonus comes from the Cethleann statue, which should be the first one you're purchasing anyways since it has class mastery +1).

In conclusion, it's entirely possible to hit Pegasus Knight before chapter 8 with minimal effort.

---------------------------------

Also, her "mid game" contributions are probably actually better as a Pegasus Knight. Catherine's base stats are pretty ridiculous, and she doesn't actually need the Swordmaster class to kill enemies on Hard difficulty. The offensive difference between the two classes is 6 damage, but you're often overkilling all but the bulkiest enemies, so the extra 6 damage per hit isn't necessary. You can either be a 5 move foot unit that ORKOs enemies, or be a 6 move flier that ORKOs enemies. The choice here is obvious. The March Ring helps your mobility as a Swordmaster, but it also helps your mobility as a Pegasus Knight (in fact, it probably helps even more, since more move on a flier is better than more move on a unit that takes terrain penalties).

My main concern is late game. Mind if I ask if you know the minimum skill rank to become a Falcon Knight. If it doesn't seem that bad then I'll prob move her. Again I don't have experience using this build so I want to look at this as objectively as possible. Honestly these certification requirement is confusing on how they base the percentage. I doesn't seem like it bases solely on what requirement you hit. Ex. Hubert has C in lances, and riding. E in bows. But he has a 0% chance passing as bow knight even though he reaches the lance requirement. (yes this is kinda an extreme example but it is just so hard to calculate the investment without actually using a build)

[Silly]

46 minutes ago, leesangstar10 said:

 My main concern is late game. Mind if I ask if you know the minimum skill rank to become a Falcon Knight. If it doesn't seem that bad then I'll prob move her. Again I don't have experience using this build so I want to look at this as objectively as possible. Honestly these certification requirement is confusing on how they base the percentage. I doesn't seem like it bases solely on what requirement you hit. Ex. Hubert has C in lances, and riding. E in bows. But he has a 0% chance passing as bow knight even though he reaches the lance requirement. (yes this is kinda an extreme example but it is just so hard to calculate the investment without actually using a build)

C rank Sword takes 300 total exp (though this isn't needed on Catherine because her sword rank is good enough at base). B+ Flying takes 980 exp. A Lance takes 1320 exp.

It's not trivial to hit Falcon Knight requirements. You have to actually put in some effort. But it's reasonable to do if you give her the Knowledge Gem. ~15 levels worth of Pegasus Knight combat with a Knowledge Gem goes a fairly long way towards hitting the necessary requirements (should be 10 Lance exp per combat with the Knowledge Gem and the first Cethleann statue boost).

Right below top tier is fine with me anyways. You do have to put in some work to get her to the appropriate class, but her performance if you put in the work is very, very good.

Edited August 19, 2019 by Silly

[Hyper L]

Don't have the game, just theorizing with the data.

But how reliable are Critical hits? Cuz from his growths you would think Ignatz was designed to be a High-Ranged Crit Machine. But if the tier list here are anything to go by, that doesn't work out.

On a side note: Make bows MT based on Dexterity and all is fixed LOL.

On another side note: I wonder if there will have balace changes along with the other updates.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Hyper L

[Wuzzy]

21 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

Don't have the game, just theorizing with the data.

But how reliable are Critical hits? Cuz from his growths you would think Ignatz was designed to be a High-Ranged Crit Machine. But if the tier list here are anything to go by, that doesn't work out.

For me personally, I would rate Ignatz relatively low because he kind of overlaps with some of his house units, and generally doesn't have much separating himself from other units to be worth recruiting. Claude and Leonie are better archers overall since they have a reliable Str growth (Ignatz has a 35% Str Growth like the other house "canon" Archers), Shamir joins mid-part 1 and is pretty solid until late, late game, and other houses have units that can also pull off Bow Knight better (Felix, Bernadetta, Petra, Ferdinand, Dimitri) due to having that reliable Str growth but still retaining a solid Spd growth (in the case of Bernadetta, she has a 35% Str growth but her personal sorta helps late game once you have access to Brave Bows). 

I'd say critical hits are pretty reliable overall, with Killer Weapons+/Wo Dao+, characters as Warmasters (+20 crit) and Swordmasters (+10 crit). There are also some battalions that give at most +10 crit as well. Anyways, point is that it's very easy for any unit to reach a pretty high amount of crit rate (for me, might be different for other players).

Also his personal skill would be better if Ignatz had access to Deadeye (which is a bow combat art that has a long range but has lower hit the farther the target is) and that getting hit rate is pretty easy by mastering the Archer class or with certain Battalions and supports.

edit- as the below post mentioned, every unit in 3 houses is usable (except maybe like Gilbert who is kinda ehh). This is probably one of the few games where you can actually use units you like as characters (if you choose to do so) just because characters are generally the same unit wise.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Lunarly

[magnetic_cactus]

19 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

Don't have the game, just theorizing with the data.

But how reliable are Critical hits? Cuz from his growths you would think Ignatz was designed to be a High-Ranged Crit Machine. But if the tier list here are anything to go by, that doesn't work out.

On a side note: Make bows MT based on Dexterity and all is fixed.

Crits are not reliable early game but become pretty reliable late game, especially if you're doubling with someone like Petra, thanks to weapons like the Cursed Akishaya Sword+ (50 baseline crit rate), the power of battalions, and class crit skills.

I would take the tier lists here with a grain of salt. The game is still very new and new strategies are being devised constantly. For example, the power of evade tanking wasn't really touched on until recently, and I still don't see a lot of discussion regarding Swift Strikes and Point-Blank Volley (although it is starting to show up). It'll be a while before anything set in stone shows up, and then Maddening/Lunatic/Lunatic+/etc. and DLC will shake it up again. Having played through on Hard twice I can tell you all characters are at least "usable tier" as-is, so try experimenting.

e: spelling

Edited August 20, 2019 by magnetic_cactus

[Hyper L]

13 minutes ago, magnetic_cactus said:

Crits are not reliable early game but become pretty reliable late game, especially if you're doubling with someone like Petra, thanks to weapons like the Cursed Akishaya Sword+ (50 baseline crit rate).

I would take the tier lists here with a grain of salt. The game is still very new and new strategies are being devised constantly. For example, the power of evade tanking wasn't really touched on until recently, and I still don't see a lot of discussion regarding Swift Strikes and Point-Blank Volley (although it is starting to show up). It'll be a while before anything set in stone shows up, and then Maddening/Lunatic/Lunatic+/etc. and DLC will shake it up again. Having played through on Hard twice I can tell you all characters are at least "usable tier" as-is, so try experimenting.

Yeah, with some footage of Lunatic mode (this Dawnbomb guy is streaming the BL Lunatic file he digged up) one could argue the game is more balanced for Lunatic than hard.

Since Hard mode is a dowgraded Lunatic, and much easier, some characters and classes inevitably gain value while others lose it.

From my impression of BL Lunatic so far, you absolutely need Dedue to take some hits for you early game.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Hyper L

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

Don't have the game, just theorizing with the data.

But how reliable are Critical hits? Cuz from his growths you would think Ignatz was designed to be a High-Ranged Crit Machine. But if the tier list here are anything to go by, that doesn't work out.

On a side note: Make bows MT based on Dexterity and all is fixed.

Not too reliable early on, since enemies have prowess abilities that stuff your crit chances into really low territory (if they're above zero, which they likely won't be between both the aforementioned prowess abilities and enemies having actual luck stats).

EDIT:

Quote

Yeah, with some footage of Lunatic mode (this Dawnbomb guy is streaming the BL Lunatic file he digged up) one could argue the game is more balanced for Lunatic than on hard.

Are you talking about the same dawnbomb that I got into an argument with in that other thread?

Edited August 20, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Hyper L]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Are you talking about the same dawnbomb that I got into an argument with in that other thread?

I have no idea. But the chances of there having multiple guys with the name Dawnbomb is not that high i'd wager.

[Garlyle]

I finally found myself enough confidence to put together a Tier List for this game. I'll try to give a good explanation for my decisions here, and of course if someone is higher on the list, I believe the unit will be more useful in long term. Currently I have a finished BL and GD run, and doing pre TS BE run.

S Tier

Byleth - As a main character, with his personal skill he becomes one of the best early game units for you, plus you need to deploy him in every story chapters - which is not a bad thing. Byleth has one of the best bases and groths out of the gate, which only gets better once he gets his personal weapon and unique class. For that, training him is easy, and it's best to train his in swords, unless you want to raise other skills for recruitment.

Lysithea - When it comes to stats, Lysithea is really minmaxed, but what she for what stats needs - already has good growth. She's fragile though, so only use her for her magic from a safe distance. Getting Thrysus for her is advised, and luckily she starts in the same class as Lorenz, who has the paralogue to aquire that. Lys also learns spells much sooner than other units, and her arsenal is just amazing: Seraphim, Dark Spikes, Luna, Warp. Gremory path is the best for her, but if she has the time to train, she can be also a Dark Knight.

Catherine - Cat joins as a Swordmaster at Lv15, has the Thunderbrand from the start, and a very solid offensive unit in a long time. She's fast enough, can learn Healing Focus with little effort, and one of the units who doesn't even need a class change at all. I believe if she ever falls behind, she wouldn't have a difficulty to catch up with the other units. For enemies she can't kill instantly, she can handle them with Levin Sword most likely.

Petra - Petra is fast, probably the fastest unit in the game. She also has great Skill proficiencies, so you can turn her into a Swordmaster or a Wyvern Rider, depending on your style. With her personal skill she can get the highest crit rate in the game, which is most likely an instant kill for units with less then 50% health remaining. 

A Tier

All the lords - I want to be fair and say, all the lords are amazing. Claude is a great flying archer without you need to worry about his skills, Dimitri is a strong and tanky lance unit, while Edelgard has a lot of potential with Axes and Dark magic. You need to use them a lot, so training them would be just beneficial for you, and you are not going to regret it.

Ingrid - Ingrid is just meant to be a flying unit, and not a bad one either. As a Pegasus rider, she comes with high speed and very good resistance - later turning her into a very dodgy flier most likely. Since she's going to keep training in Flying, Alert Stance+ will be unlocked easily, adding that up with flier Avo +10 bonus, Evasion Ring and a batallion, Ingrid can be one of the best dodgetanks in this game, who can also double her enemies. She also has a nice set of spells, but unfortunately fliers can't use magic.

Sylvain - Sylvain can be instantly recruited if you are female Byleth, and he's best used as a cavalier unit - having proficiency in lances and horses as well. He can decently endure battles, and he gets even better when a female unit is next to him. At A lances he unlocks Swift Strikes, which is a must for him. Easy to train into a Dark Knight with his budding talent, making him a versatile unit. He has one of the earliest paralogues that can grant you a crest weapon.

Mercedes - Easily the best healer in the game. Mercedes can learn not only Physic, but also Fortify. Thanks to her crest, she can also conserve uses of recovery magic. Her personal ability is one of those that can contribute even in the lategame, a 3H version of Live to Serve. She has a budding talent in bows, which is a nice utility, but she's better off learning some reason magics instead of that. If you could, try to get her the Rafail Gem.

Felix - Felix is another strong sword user, and he probably should stick swords only. His budding talent is a bid odd, probably useful if you want to turn him into a Mortal Savant. He is also the only unit that is better when deployed without a batallion. His crest weapon can only be obtained in BL route though, and relic reward from his paralogue can also be missed if you are not saving enough people.

Marianne - She would be the best choice for the dancer class. Not only making her a much better support unit, but it is also a class that can use magic, and benefits from using a sword. From her paralogue she can get Blutgang, which is a great crest weapon for her. Her offense might not be the greatest, but either then she can trust in Faith magic. Has proficiency in flying too, so has a potential to gain Alert Stance.

Seteth - Starts with high Lance and Authority, not to mention as a Wyvern Rider. He can get Spear of Assal from his paralogue, which kills most cavalry units in his way. He can also learn Swift Strikes, and he can also prevent counterattacks sometimes. A solid choice if you need a flier unit.

Hilda - Fast and strong, but her accuracy might be a problem for some time. She can also get her crest weapon Freikugel very early, which comes with a strong Combat Art. While she can learn Bolting in Reason, it's not really worth it, and her Budding Talent is also not needed. If you can keep her accuracy good enough, she can be rewarding. Turning her into a Wyvern would be the best path.

B Tier

Ignatz - Archers are having a great time in this game, and Ignatz is starting out pretty well. Having a +20 Hit on every attack, he's guaranteed to get some hits and kills. He also has very good growths in speed, luck and dexterity. He can be a great support unit too with Break Shot, Ward Arrow, and even Seal Strength. Better trained on the Sniper -> Bow Knight route, Ignatz will appretiate the extra range these route give to him.

Leonie - Leonie is another potential bow knight, but she's better off starting as a cavalier instead as a sniper. She also has great dexterity and speed, not to mention a nice defense too. Overall a solid unit, just use one of them as a bow knight instead of the others - if one of them gets screwed in their growths that is.

Ferdinand - Ferdinand is designed to be a cavalry unit as well, just like Sylvain. He might struggle early on, but he has a potential to become a very fast and dodgy unit. His personal ability grants Hit/Avo +15 when unit is at full HP, which is not a tall order to maintain, especially if he gets the crest weapon that also heals him at start of his turn. He can also learn Swift Strikes, and I'd train him in flying as well just to unlock that nice Alert Stance+ for him in the long run. His budding talent might not worth it though.

Annette - She is a weird unit when it comes to proficiencies. Annette prefers Reason, Authority and... Axes. Annette can be a really powerful mage, and with C axes she can also unlock Lightning Axe - a very powerful combat art that could one shot enemies, even when she has just a Training Axe. She can get later the Crusher, which has a great combat art with it for her. Unfortunately she's a very squishy unit, and she might have a hard time surviving her own paralogue.

Hubert - Also one of the mages that have problem with survival, but he's one of the 3 mages who can wield dark magic without the dark classes. Very good in early game, but unfortunately he's only available in Edelgard's route.

Dorothea - She would be my 2nd choice to be a dancer. Has a nice set of reason magic, and a personal ability that can heal adjacent allies. Has good magic and resistance, but low strength and defense. 

Linhardt - Black Eagles healer, who can quickly unlock Physic, and one of the few people who can actually use Warp. Linhardt can also heal himself with his personal ability, but it only works if he does not take any action that turn. His magic growth is ok, so he can be a good warp mage later in the game.

C Tier

Dedue - Dedue has great growths in Hp, Str and defense, while lacking in speed and resistance. Good to be a Fortress Knight, and he gets extra defense when he doesn't take an action - making him a great bait unit. His availability is not great though, he joins later post timeskip, and he is exclusive to BL route. His biggest weakness is mages who double him. Armored Strike is probably his best skill.

Raphael - Raphael is another unit that is great as a Fortress Knight/Great Knight. His Spd growth is non-existant, but when he starts in brawling and doubles the enemies before they hit him, he doesn't need speed. He's very bulky, and hardly dies in the GD route, walling off brawlers and monsters easily. His personal skill is not very good though, and Great Knight can only use gauntlets when dismounted, so he might need to switch to axes later on.

Flayn - Flayn has a very high resistance, good magic and learns Rescue and Fortify easily. Weirdly she also has proficiency in lances, so she might take the path to become a Holy Knight - a Rescue user with canto. Her offense might be problematic early on, but she still worth the investment.

Bernadetta - Bernadetta's only good skill proficiency is in bows, which could be good with her speed and dexterity growths, but she might suffer in strength growths. If however she gets out of it, she can be dangerous. She has the budding talent Pass, allowing her to pass through enemy tiles. Her crest also gives a chance to attack twice, which is basically a brave effect on one attack. Bernadetta has a personal skill that gives her an attack boost as well, but all these are a bit situational for my taste. Still, Deadeye and Encloser are nice skills to have.

Shamir - Shamir starts as a great bow user as well, but she also has the chance to get screwed in growths, and her skills are not much outstanding compared to others. Her personal ability is very good though, when initiates combat and defeats foe, grants Str/Mag/Dex/Spd +4 for one turn.

Manuela - Manuela has good starting strength and magic, but her highest stats might be speed and charm. She can learn Bolting and Warp once reached A in Reason and Faith. She is in the same category as Marianne and Dorothea, but she cannot be turned into a dancer, and her personal ability is also not very useful. 35% growth in both Str and Mag is also not very strong, but if her stats turn out good, I'd recommend deploying her.

Caspar - To be fair I still need to experiment with Caspar, but he looks like a good brawler unit on paper. His Strength is pretty good, gauntlet skills look very interesting, 

D Tier

Ashe - Ashe is probably best as another archer, where he can unlock Deadeye. But other than that, his abilities are nothing outstanding. His personal ability is unique for him, but thanks to the always open shop and the high amount of gold you'll get, keys will be your smallest problems in this game. He can get good dexterity and speed, but everywhere else he might fall behind.

Lorenz - Lorenz is slow, and that's his biggest problem. He could be a strong mage, but not strong enough to kill his enemies in a single hit. It's tempting to train him as a cavalry unit, and wihle Frozen Lance is very nice, it'd just leave him in a spot where enemies will double him. He can become somewhat useful once he become a mounted mage knight, but besides getting the Thrysus, I'd not recommend using him.

Gilbert - He's really not that great. Good for Annette's paralogue, but he only appears in Dimitri's path - where Dimitri and Dedue can easily replace him. Like his as a character, but not as a unit.

Alois - Alois is another odd unit. Looks like he should another one of the armor knights, but somewhat an oddball amongst them. His gauntlet skills look interesting, but his axe skills are not that beneficial - exhaustive strike just doesn't worth it.

E Tier

Hanneman - Hanneman looks like a good mage unit when he joins, but he really need some training. Not sure if it's worth it though, his bow skills are bad, and his magic is only good if he one shots his enemies. That's right, Hanneman is very slow and very fragile, and very one dimensional. If he turns out to be something, he can unlock Meteor, but that requires A+ is Reason skills.

Cyril - People say he can be turned into a good Wyvern Lord, but in this game that could be true to most of the units. His bases are bad and his growths are bad, so instead of having a useful personal ability, he gets an ability to fix up those growth rates. I believe his stats are calculated without the personal skill bonus, so you've got some work ahead of you to make him a good unit, and it feels like a big gamble, as his combat arts are also not very good for him.

 

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Felix - Felix is another strong sword user, and he probably should stick swords only. His budding talent is a bid odd, probably useful if you want to turn him into a Mortal Savant. He is also the only unit that is better when deployed without a batallion. His crest weapon can only be obtained in BL route though, and relic reward from his paralogue can also be missed if you are not saving enough people.

Bold: I would contest that - I've seen people refer to his personal as "fool's gold", which should speak for itself.

Also, I don't see why the mention of Alert Stance+, which honestly sounds pointless - when would I be better off waiting, which it requires to activate, than doing something more productive??? The answer, as far as I'm concerned, is never.

[Garlyle]

17 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Also, I don't see why the mention of Alert Stance+, which honestly sounds pointless - when would I be better off waiting, which it requires to activate, than doing something more productive??? The answer, as far as I'm concerned, is never.

It can be very useful when you are advancing to a point where the enemy piles up and your dodgetank just avoid all their attacks. Then you can move forward and kill those units with the others behind them. It's not like you have the option to attack every turn, so I might just try to bait some enemies, so I have something to do on the next turn. It's also really easy to activate, so if you have confidence that your dodger can dodge, it's just going to be profit for you. Think of it as activating a skill instead of doing something else, +30 Avoid is nothing to laugh at.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

I agree with @Shadow Mir that Felix is not best left alone.

Battalions at at least C rank are good enough, but I have heard that B-tank is where it’s at.

[Shoblongoo]

I'll vouch for investing in Felix's hidden talent to make him a swordsman mage + build into the Mortal Savant class being really, really good.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Shoblongoo

[Shadow Mir]

13 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

It can be very useful when you are advancing to a point where the enemy piles up and your dodgetank just avoid all their attacks. Then you can move forward and kill those units with the others behind them. It's not like you have the option to attack every turn, so I might just try to bait some enemies, so I have something to do on the next turn. It's also really easy to activate, so if you have confidence that your dodger can dodge, it's just going to be profit for you. Think of it as activating a skill instead of doing something else, +30 Avoid is nothing to laugh at.

Two problems: One, gambits. Two, what the hell would I want to replace with Alert Stance+ (which I think is too much investment for too little reward - how many points would it take to go from A to A+)??? Because I'm not convinced it's so great as to warrant replacing anything with, especially when it's about as much reward as two large snacks for defeating a Legend tier spirit.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Shoblongoo]

...Concerning Felix's personal skill...

Its absolutely insane in the earlygame, when a flat +5 per hit to combat is going to be the difference between something like 10-12 damage per hit and 15-17 damage per hit. When low-authority battalion bonuses are not that high.  And when the boost to his damage output from having no battalion + speed tier puts him at a starting level where he can just immediately one-round early game enemies with iron weapons or a basic thunder spell.

The ability drops off the closer you get to the endgame, as a flat +5 to damage becomes progressively less impressive with late game stat inflation (and the boosts you get from having high-authority battalions equipped becomes much higher).

What this ability does for Felix is give him an extremely strong start + explosive early game, where he'll immediately start off as one of your most consistent one-rounders and capable offensive units.

And that in turn is going to ensure that he has a very easy time grabbing kills, hitting his level-ups, and transitioning smoothly to his mid/late game.

Later its just "+5 attack per hit after his battalion breaks," and not a reason to avoid running battalions on him.

But for what it does for his early game;  its great. And not something to be discounted when evaluating how good Felix is.  
 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Shoblongoo

[Garlyle]

14 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Two problems: One, gambits. Two, what the hell would I want to replace with Alert Stance+ (which I think is too much investment for too little reward - how many points would it take to go from A to A+)??? Because I'm not convinced it's so great as to warrant replacing anything with, especially when it's about as much reward as two large snacks for defeating a Legend tier spirit.

Why? Enemy gambits are even less accurate then anything else. Also I think 5 ability slot is plenty to put in there an Alert Stance+ and other skills - I'd choose a Prowess that I use most often, and not sure what else - I'm not always waiting for classes to be mastered before switching to the next one. As for training, for Ingrid Flying and Lances feels to be the most important, then I'd invest some points in swords and authority - I don't need to level those too high, so there's enough time to get Flying to A+ level. Getting S and S+ is the time consuming training really.

@Shoblongoo Hmm, fair point. I'd still keep him in A tier though, but I'll assign batallions to him in my lategame next time.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Garlyle

[SullyMcGully]

9 minutes ago, Shoblongoo said:

...Concerning Felix's personal skill...

Its absolutely insane in the earlygame, when a flat +5 per hit to combat is going to be the difference between something like 10-12 damage per hit and 15-17 damage per hit. When low-authority battalion bonuses are not that high.  And when the boost to his damage output from having no battalion + speed tier puts him at a starting level where he can just immediately one-round early game enemies with iron weapons or a basic thunder spell.

The ability drops off the closer you get to the endgame, as a flat +5 to damage becomes progressively less impressive with stat inflation and the boosts you get from having high-authority battalions equipped becomes much higher.

What it does for Felix is give him an extremely strong start + impressive early game, where he'll immediately start off as one of your most consistent one-rounders and capable offensive units.

And that in turn is going to ensure that he has a very easy time grabbing kills, hitting his level-ups, and transitioning smoothly to his mid/late game.

Later its just "+5 attack per hit after his battalion breaks," and not a reason to avoid running battalions on him.

But for what it does for his early game;  its great. And not something to be discounted when evaluating how good Felix is.  
 

This. Don't make the mistake I made on my first playthrough. I checked on the battalions I had equipped on characters lategame and I suddenly realized that the King of Lions Corp gave a 10 MT boost. And it wasn't the only battalion with crazy stat boosts. Suddenly not training Felix's authority at all looked really foolish. 

Also making Felix a Mortal Savant fixes the age-old issue of sword units: not being able to attack at range. He even gets 3 range utility with Thoron. Felix's magic growth isn't the best, but in this game a good many enemies have resistance so bad that they can get 1HKO'd by a professional mage, and Felix is pretty much guaranteed to double.

[Silly]

You could also make Felix into a Bow Knight and just have 4 range permanently and 8 move.

Also I think I may have underestimated Shamir. She probably deserves to be on a similar tier to Catherine in most lists.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Silly

[Shadow Mir]

31 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Why? Enemy gambits are even less accurate then anything else. Also I think 5 ability slot is plenty to put in there an Alert Stance+ and other skills - I'd choose a Prowess that I use most often, and not sure what else - I'm not always waiting for classes to be mastered before switching to the next one. As for training, for Ingrid Flying and Lances feels to be the most important, then I'd invest some points in swords and authority - I don't need to level those too high, so there's enough time to get Flying to A+ level. Getting S and S+ is the time consuming training really.

Simple. Get hit by a gambit, and you're rattled, which freezes you and makes you lose stats (this also applies to whoever else was in the gambit's area of effect). I wouldn't like to be in the position of relying on dodging to survive an onslaught when not only are you locked in place, but everything is more accurate vs you, and you take more damage to boot. Simply put, if you choose to live by the RNG, don't be surprised when you die by the RNG.

Edited August 20, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[timon]

7 minutes ago, Silly said:

Also I think I may have underestimated Shamir. She probably deserves to be on a similar tier to Catherine in most lists.

I'd say she's straight up better. She joins just a chapter late with the best weapon type almost maxed out and basically ready to get into BK. Catherine's proficiencies on the other hand are just bizarre, I get that you can work her towards Falcon, but Shamir is just much more natural, and the fact that she uses Bows instead of Swords also means that she's going to be more useful (though the sheer power of Catherine gives her the advantage for the first couple chapters you get them I guess).

[Silly]

I think its probably better to actually go Pegasus Knight with Shamir. Though I haven't tested it myself yet, it seems very good in theory.

It's incredibly trivial for her to hit it since all it takes is D flying (literally just 100 exp, which is obtainable in under a month), and you end up with a unit with good bases early on in a very mobile class.

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to use bows as a Pegasus Knight if you need 1-2 range, since you have close counter for free.

[Stroud]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

Simple. Get hit by a gambit, and you're rattled, which freezes you and makes you lose stats (this also applies to whoever else was in the gambit's area of effect). I wouldn't like to be in the position of relying on dodging to survive an onslaught when not only are you locked in place, but everything is more accurate vs you, and you take more damage to boot. Simply put, if you choose to live by the RNG, don't be surprised when you die by the RNG.

You actually have to place your dodgetank between 2-3 Gambit users to be really in danger. Gambits only reduce your Avo by 10%. If you really get hit after that again your luck must be abyssal. A dodgetank done dodgetank right, anything outside of gambits should still hit you  with 0%.

But 0% is still RNG for some I guess. At the Point a Unit has Alert stance+ and build right it should be that way.

Calcs:
A Dodgetank over Lv 30 should have at least 30-35 Base Value Avo.
+ 20 Sword Avo
+20 Sword LV5
+30 Alert Stance
+10 Evasion Ring
+20 Battaion
+10 Avo (class)
We assume even Ferdinand has been hit and his personal skill is not active. He might have enough bulk to get 0 Damage out of gambit though. 
So technically its 140 Avo. Almost no enemy in the entire game has over 140 Hit. Only some Bosses. Most enemies only have between 90-120 Hit. 
That is still 126 Avo with reducing them from the Gambit. And this is assuming we have 30 Base, we can increase it more.

Outside of Sword Avo I don't see any of that we have to get with a roundabout way. We all love fliers and we invest into fliers anyway.

And we still don't have included any Tiles which raises Avo. In the woods that character would still have over 150 Avo which is certain 0%. 

No once says that it cannot change with Lunatic. In lunatic it can be less viable if they increase the hit rate of enemies or give Gambit to all enemies. But as of now Dodgetank works just fine. And you really have to play on autobot to mess it up, which you also could with any other build. Maybe on Auto battle the Dodgetank is the only one who survives.

If its not your playstyle its alright and if you find it lame this is also alright. I can only do so much and come with numbers here. And you should have an idea what kind of Hit rate the enemies will have...

Edited August 20, 2019 by Stroud