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Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists


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1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

The other problem, which I neglected to mention, is that they're heavy. Some are heavy to the point where they're not worth it. Like the aforementioned Bolt Axe (which, by the way, IS seems to consistently make a joke weapon, considering that only one game made it usable, that being Awakening).

Can't speak for it in this game (though on paper I could see a high-mag Wyvern Lord using it well), but in Fates it has definite use due to it being able to double while Hand Axe can not. Stacking offence on Camilla can let her one-round lots of enemies with it.

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12 hours ago, Cysx said:

I mean, she's never going to be the best wyvern around, at least I don't think. But you seemed to think it was a terrible idea(I did it on a whim myself), and it kind of isn't. Keep in mind it's really easy to stack Atk in this game.

And yeah upgraded Levin Sword and Bolt Axe have 1-3 range. It's also pretty nice because the comps to repair them(arcane crystals) get buyable lategame, and they're fairly inexpensive considering how few you need.

Huh never knew that cause I always forget about forging. That actually might change a lot of things. Still got to actually use this build to know for sure, but I think I can move her up to where Hubert and Lorenz is. Can't tell if she is better than them, but definitely not the worst anymore rip Hannenman. I'll prob post another update once lunatic comes out or some gameplay changes that could affect the placing. 

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Do you guys think I should award some physical units that have okay magic? Because with the forged levin and bolt axe, you can counter attack archers and snipers. Like Ingrid with a forged levin sword can be an enemy phase monster since her avoid is pretty good and mostly likely double and kill? 

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12 minutes ago, leesangstar10 said:

Do you guys think I should award some physical units that have okay magic? Because with the forged levin and bolt axe, you can counter attack archers and snipers. Like Ingrid with a forged levin sword can be an enemy phase monster since her avoid is pretty good and mostly likely double and kill? 

I've always found magic weapons to be very underwhelming in many cases. I want them to be good but they miss out on kills way too often.

For example, Falcon Knight Ingrid averages roughly 20 magic at level 40. (6 base + 35% growth for 39 levels, with no bonuses due to class.) Levin Sword additionally doesn't benefit from Lancefaire, and she probably doesn't have a +magic battalion (I don't even know if there are any flying battalions that give magic tbh).

This means that she has 29 attack before enemy resistance is factored in, which is not that great. You're likely not hitting ORKOs on archers with these numbers.

Better to just kill the archer on player phase, so that you can fight enemies on EP with a better weapon equipped.

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1 hour ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Can't speak for it in this game (though on paper I could see a high-mag Wyvern Lord using it well), but in Fates it has definite use due to it being able to double while Hand Axe can not. Stacking offence on Camilla can let her one-round lots of enemies with it.

Out of the high mag units in this game...

  • Dorothea is weak in Flying. Same goes for Hanneman.
  • Lysithea is weak in both lances and axes. Ditto for Mercedes.
  • Linhardt is weak in axes.

This leaves just Annette and Marianne who manage to avoid being weak in any of the requirements... But even so, that 15 weight is just too much for me to see it having much practical use.

Regarding Fates, I found the Bolt Axe practically useless between the fact that most of what I'd want a ranged weapon to counter has higher resistance than defense (ninjas, mages, Outlaws and their promotions, among others) and the fact that enemy resistance is higher in Fates relative to other games. Not helping is that the stuff it WOULD be useful against has weaknesses.

Edited by Shadow Mir
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On 8/21/2019 at 7:43 AM, Chaotix said:

That's correct. I don't necessarily think Dark Knight is better than Paladin, I was just listing it as another option for Sylvain. Sometimes (probably most of the time) you want Paladin's +1 move and Lancefaire for his Lance of Ruin. But there might be some maps where you would rather flex him onto Dark Knight to make use of his magic instead - because of his high strength he can typically use Bolganone and Sagittae without taking an attack speed penalty.

Agree in that both Paladin and DK are viable Sylvain final class options when compared to one another. However, I find myself wondering what tangible advantages does Paladin have over Wyven Lord?  

  • Pros for Paladin: Lancefaire, Aegis mastery skill, +1 Dex, +2 Res, +5 Mag growth, +5 Dex growth, +5 Lck growth, +5 Res growth, can utilize defensive terrain, not weak to bows. Sylvain is also proficient in riding, as opposed to neutral in flying.
  • Pros for Wyvern Lord: Axefaire, Avo +10, Defiant Crit mastery skill, +2 Str, +5 Spd, +1 Def, +5 Str growth, +20 Spd growth, not weak to horseslayer, flying. 

Taking the above as as whole, and focusing on only what matters, it would seem that:

  • Wyvern Lord does very nearly as much damage with lances (higher Str bonus and better Str growth coming close to canceling out the missing Lancefaire), does quite a bit more damage with axes (giving you a Bolt Axe option as well, maybe), has much better AS and Avo (compounding over time due to the large Spd growth differential), and flies.
  • Paladin comes earlier and slightly easier for Sylvain, has a much better (albeit not terribly useful in practice) mastery skill, and can utilize defensive terrain.
  • Paladin's terrain resistance alleviates some of the issues with being a ground unit but isn't quite a perfect fix. As for unit typing, since archers aren't usually grouped and never have Close Counter, and since horseslayer is practically non-existent, I don't see these classes' respective type weaknesses as relevant, although, as between the two, bow weakness is worse, of course. 

Honestly, I feel like WL is probably a little better than Paladin for Sylvain UNLESS you find yourself swapping classes (I personally never did this, instead focusing each student on one particular role for all maps, but if you wanted to sometimes use Sylvain's magic, Paladin would win out since it very easily cross-classes into DK due to shared skill requirements). Thus the debate for me is WL vs. DK, not Paladin vs. DK. If Lunatic improves bow enemies so as to render them a more credible threat that could change, I suppose. In the alternative they could nerf WL in a balance patch (+10 Spd to -10 Spd and removal of Avo +10, for example), but I doubt we'll see balance patching in any capacity. 

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On 8/23/2019 at 10:51 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Regarding Fates, I found the Bolt Axe practically useless between the fact that most of what I'd want a ranged weapon to counter has higher resistance than defense (ninjas, mages, Outlaws and their promotions, among others) and the fact that enemy resistance is higher in Fates relative to other games. Not helping is that the stuff it WOULD be useful against has weaknesses.

Generals (who frequently have Spears/Tomahawks) and Oni Savages (who usually have magic or a Throwing Club) have lopsided stats the other direction, as do Master of Arms. With the Bolt Axe, you can carve through them easily. And even against enemies with higher res than def, it can sometimes win out because of the doubles (especially against Sorcerers and Onmyoji, whose stats aren't as lopsided as ninjas), and even when it doesn't do more damage, it builds your dual guard gauge faster if you're running pair up. And of course on player phase, it has use for doubling all those same low-res enemies at 2 range and avoiding melee counters + having more position options. Take it from me, I've gotten good use out of it in no-grind, including on Lunatic.

in general I think you're too quick to dismiss things in these games as useless; if people can speak of getting use out of something in a reliable, non-grindy fashion, it's worth listening to their experiences and at least considering it as an option.

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:10 PM, Glennstavos said:

 

dont really understand why people have Marianne somewhat low in all honesty she is one of my best units she has the second highest res in the game, psychic and can pretty much 1v1 anything and come out without a scratch with nosferatu if u build her as a holy knight she is honestly amazing 

Edited by lillythelapras
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42 minutes ago, lillythelapras said:

dont really understand why people have Marianne somewhat low in all honesty she is one of my best units she has the second highest res in the game, psychic and can pretty much 1v1 anything and come out without a scratch with nosferatu if u build her as a holy knight she is honestly amazing 

Sorry, but I seriously doubt that last part. Nosferatu has only 1 might and is heavy.

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49 minutes ago, lillythelapras said:

it usually doubles for me? and does on average 40 damage per hit 

Key words in bold. I would not be advertising this to anyone else...

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I'm comfortable with most of that one, but I don't know how Claude isn't S-tier for you. 

His Act 1 is A-tier with great speed, solid strength, bow proficiency, Diamond Axe before C-rank, and flying Prof for going Wyvern at 20.  In Act 2, he has the best class in the game with Flying and Bowfaire, a 2-3 range bow, a unique flying Battalion, Pass, and a combat art that grants one guaranteed dodge.  He is the only Lord who can Fly/Mount AND have Charm, and since Hilda is typically a WL too, easy access to not only her "Certain Ally +mt support" but also her +3 str to adjacent males personal.  What more could you possibly need?

Only other quibbles are Sylvain and Ashe.  Sylvain significantly lower than Ferdie is odd.  They are nearly identical except that Sylvain has early join for Bylass and +2str/def when adjacent to females.  He also gets better supports: Felix/Ingrid vs. Lorenz.  Ashe has easier Wyvern access, but he doesn't do much with it.  Leonie has fast, strong, easy Bow Knight and +2str/def next to males.

Edited by freewaffles
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50 minutes ago, freewaffles said:

I'm comfortable with most of that one, but I don't know how Claude isn't S-tier for you. 

His Act 1 is A-tier with great speed, solid strength, bow proficiency, Diamond Axe before C-rank, and flying Prof for going Wyvern at 20.  In Act 2, he has the best class in the game with Flying and Bowfaire, a 2-3 range bow, a unique flying Battalion, Pass, and a combat art that grants one guaranteed dodge.  He is the only Lord who can Fly/Mount AND have Charm, and since Hilda is typically a WL too, easy access to not only her "Certain Ally +mt support" but also her +3 str to adjacent males personal.  What more could you possibly need?

Only other quibbles are Sylvain and Ashe.  Sylvain significantly lower than Ferdie is odd.  They are nearly identical except that Sylvain has early join for Bylass and +2str/def when adjacent to females.  He also gets better supports: Felix/Ingrid vs. Lorenz.  Ashe has easier Wyvern access, but he doesn't do much with it.  Leonie has fast, strong, easy Bow Knight and +2str/def next to males.

I’ll push back on this is a bit. Agreed that they’re similar units, but ferdinand’s top end is imo noticeably better than Sylvain’s. Ferdinand has a passive that is much nicer in practice than it appears on paper. He also has two relics that restore a ton of hp for him (seteth is the only other character that gets the bonus from lance of assal, and imo Ferdinand is a much better unit). 

By contrast, Sylvain has a small damage boost that drops off in relevance pretty fast, and a magic-using route that, if we’re being honest, probably isn’t stellar. 

If you’re counting Sylvain’s relic (which Ferdinand can use almost equally well, unlike Ferdinand’s relics) and his easier join for f!byleth, that could push them closer, but I can definitely see a worldview where you don’t consider those for the tier list. They don’t really have much to do with how he performs as a unit, and the recruitment is of course irrelevant on BE route. 

I do agree that for female byleths on a non-BE route, Sylvain is the lower-fuss option and may be worth choosing over Ferdinand if you want to allocate your resources elsewhere. Otherwise, I’d usually end up using Ferdinand.

Edited by ApocaLips
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2 hours ago, freewaffles said:

I'm comfortable with most of that one, but I don't know how Claude isn't S-tier for you. 

His Act 1 is A-tier with great speed, solid strength, bow proficiency, Diamond Axe before C-rank, and flying Prof for going Wyvern at 20.  In Act 2, he has the best class in the game with Flying and Bowfaire, a 2-3 range bow, a unique flying Battalion, Pass, and a combat art that grants one guaranteed dodge.  He is the only Lord who can Fly/Mount AND have Charm, and since Hilda is typically a WL too, easy access to not only her "Certain Ally +mt support" but also her +3 str to adjacent males personal.  What more could you possibly need?

Only other quibbles are Sylvain and Ashe.  Sylvain significantly lower than Ferdie is odd.  They are nearly identical except that Sylvain has early join for Bylass and +2str/def when adjacent to females.  He also gets better supports: Felix/Ingrid vs. Lorenz.  Ashe has easier Wyvern access, but he doesn't do much with it.  Leonie has fast, strong, easy Bow Knight and +2str/def next to males.

It is a list based on how they performed in my runs (without taking support into accoumt). 

Claude is not S tier for me because he did not perform great before timeskip unlike the other two lords. He was not as strong as Edelgard and was not as tanky as Dimitri was. Once he becomes a wyvern rider, I definitely would put him on top three, probably rather than Edelgard, but in earlygame he was not special at all to deserve being in S. Hilda and Lysithea were the ones who carried me in the GD run in the first half.

As for the cavaliers I think Ferdinand was more balanced than Sylvain, mainly faster.  

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1 hour ago, Lysithea said:

As for the cavaliers I think Ferdinand was more balanced than Sylvain, mainly faster.  

They both have the same spd at base and growth...

2 hours ago, Lysithea said:

It is a list based on how they performed in my runs (without taking support into accoumt). 

This is kinda for everybody, but don't base units solely on your run. Anything could happen in your run, for example, my Caspar got spd screwed and was immediately replaced by Alois, but I still consider Alois a worse unit than Caspar due to late recruitment, which limits reclass options. It is important as well to base something from personal experience since theory crafting isn't that reliable. However, don't make arguments like X unit is better than Y unit because in my run X had a higher str, when X unit's str growth rates is worse than Y's Any unit can be RNG screwed/blessed. So please use actual facts when making your argument.

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In my golden deer playthrough I ended up ditching Raphael quite soon, but I see for many people that he is rated higher than I would've rated him and I wonder how other people make him work. Same goes for Caspar. I'm playing black eagles right now and it seems Caspar has the same problems and I'm thinking about benching him.

I tried to make Raphael go down the brawler path because with axes he never doubled and often got doubled. However, the raw damage output was too low as a brawler, and enemy phase was just horrible. Right now I'm also facing the same problems with Caspar and I would like to make him work. How can I make Raphael and Caspar end up decent units?

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48 minutes ago, Quirino said:

In my golden deer playthrough I ended up ditching Raphael quite soon, but I see for many people that he is rated higher than I would've rated him and I wonder how other people make him work. Same goes for Caspar. I'm playing black eagles right now and it seems Caspar has the same problems and I'm thinking about benching him.

I tried to make Raphael go down the brawler path because with axes he never doubled and often got doubled. However, the raw damage output was too low as a brawler, and enemy phase was just horrible. Right now I'm also facing the same problems with Caspar and I would like to make him work. How can I make Raphael and Caspar end up decent units?

Don't go through Brawler, even when using fists; go Brigand, learn Death Blow, then go Grappler.

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44 minutes ago, Quirino said:

I tried to make Raphael go down the brawler path because with axes he never doubled and often got doubled. However, the raw damage output was too low as a brawler, and enemy phase was just horrible. Right now I'm also facing the same problems with Caspar and I would like to make him work. How can I make Raphael and Caspar end up decent units?

1. Go Brigand for both so they get Deadly Blow and take advantage of Helm Splitter's +7 mt for OHKOs in player phase.  Going Brawler does nothing for Raphael's speed.  No matter what, he's going to get boosted to 17 base when he goes Grappler or Warrior at 20.  His early game is a struggle though

2. Focus them to C Armor out the gate so they get -3 weight (effectively +3 speed for both).  This will help a lot

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2 hours ago, Quirino said:

How can I make Raphael and Caspar end up decent units?

1 hour ago, freewaffles said:

2. Focus them to C Armor out the gate so they get -3 weight (effectively +3 speed for both).  This will help a lot

Note: All characters in the game can go to C Armor for effectively +3 speed.

For any Axe-character (Raphael, Petra, Caspar, etc. etc.), you should consider C Axe / D Armor by level 10 to capture 12-base defense (!!) from Armored Knight at level 10. Caspar in particular benefits a lot from this, since Caspar has such bad bases.

Actually, D+ Axe / D Armor should be more than doable for most characters if you focus on it, which should be around a 65%+ chance of going to Armored Knight. A little bit of save-scumming can get you to save money in the early game. Armored Knight may be a weak class to actually be in, but its 12-Def base stat is amazing, and should be cheated onto as many characters as possible. Especially Axe-wielding characters like Caspar.

 

Early game is definitely Fighter -> Armored Knight (12-Def) -> Brigand (Master for Armored Blow) -> Armored Knight (+Armor training to get to C-rank for -3 weight). The +Armor training every combat really does help get to C-rank.

 

Fortress Knight's 17 Def is probably outside the reach of most characters (B Axe / B Heavy Armor), but its definitely an option for Raphael. Splashing into Fortress Knight for that 17 Def at level 20 can minimize the odds of getting luck-screwed. (Raphael probably only has 16 Def by level 20 by the way, even with 45% defense growth).

 

Hmmm... Sword C might be a good idea to go Thief (11 base speed at level 10) to patch up Raphael's speed. Purely theory craft however. That's a lot of class-switching as it is, and Grappler will fix the speed to 14 anyway by level 20.

Edited by dragontamer
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Can someone explain why Ingrid is often so highly rated? She is the worst unit in my BL run, her strength is so low that she can't kill a thing and Frozen Lance doesn't help either.

My favourite unit is Lorenz. His balanced def/res stats makes him the only unit I can throw to a bunch of enemies with no worries early game. And he normally gets the job done too, thanks to his Reason skills. That said he falters in part 2 - outshone by so many. 

Edited by Okigen
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Thanks for the good suggestions all! I will take that on board 🙂 I will let you know how Caspar turned out when I finish the playthrough!

37 minutes ago, Okigen said:

Can someone explain why Ingrid is often so highly rated? She is the worst unit in my BL run, her strength is so low that she can't kill a thing and Frozen Lance doesn't help either.

My favourite unit is Lorenz. His balanced def/res stats makes him the only unit I can throw to a bunch of enemies with no worries early game. And he normally gets the job done too, thanks to his Reason skills. That said he falters in part 2 - outshone by so many. 

Did you make Ingrid go the pegasus knight route? I used Ingrid in my BL playthrough and the GD playthrough. In the BL playthrough she got strength blessed I think because I never noticed how low her strength was (sure she wasn't the heaviest hitter but she got the job done). She was the most effective magekiller and I could send her into a field of mages with a 1-2 range weapon and she would wreak havoc.

In the GD playthrough I also had a lot of problems with Ingrid's strength, to the point that I effectively benched her because she couldn't even ORKO magic users. It might be a good idea to go wyvern route as those classes give more strength.

About Lorenz, I say he's about average. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. He was a perfectly serviceable unit as a dark knight, but not one of the stars.

Edited by Quirino
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