Jump to content
Ilboss

Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists

Recommended Posts

Just now, redlight said:

Doesn't Dark Knight go down to 7 move from Paladin's 8 move?

That's correct. I don't necessarily think Dark Knight is better than Paladin, I was just listing it as another option for Sylvain. Sometimes (probably most of the time) you want Paladin's +1 move and Lancefaire for his Lance of Ruin. But there might be some maps where you would rather flex him onto Dark Knight to make use of his magic instead - because of his high strength he can typically use Bolganone and Sagittae without taking an attack speed penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Burklight said:

I'm not going to dig out specific quotes from the past page, but I do think it's interesting that a very common theme is "WL is better than X because it has more move and the fact that it does inferior damage isn't an issue because everything dies anyway" and yet no one brings up the fact that movement isn't really a limiting factor in this game because of stride and warp. The exact same point can be made in reverse...."WL struggles to kill 5-10% of likely enemies, WM doesn't struggle to kill anything, and the extra movement doesn't matter because stride and warp." 

See how that logic works? You can easily go down and point out a several cases where the movement matters, but it's every bit as easy to point out just as many cases where the damage matters and the movement doesn't. 

Movement / flying / canto do matter for 1 turning maps without a super jacked Lysithea warp. This is why innate pass on Claude is so good (see Enbarr chapter - pop stride, kill commander 1, canto back, get danced, warped, and then kill commander 2). Or the volcano map where a big stride/warp with flier 1 turns. 

And for non-warp skip maps, after turn 1 your units are going to be separated after stride / warp - having more movement from then helps you clear the map faster, and canto allows you to kill something player phase then position yourself for a big enemy phase sweep.

If anything, stride maps canto even more broken because of the ability to clear out units close then canto forward.

Discounting canto/move in fire emblem is always silly.

Edited by virtu333

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, virtu333 said:

Movement / flying / canto do matter for 1 turning maps without a super jacked Lysithea warp. This is why innate pass on Claude is so good (see Enbarr chapter - pop stride, kill commander 1, canto back, get danced, warped, and then kill commander 2). Or the volcano map where a big stride/warp with flier 1 turns. 

And for non-warp skip maps, after turn 1 your units are going to be separated after stride / warp - having more movement from then helps you clear the map faster, and canto allows you to kill something player phase then position yourself for a big enemy phase sweep.

If anything, stride maps canto even more broken because of the ability to clear out units close then canto forward.

Discounting canto/move in fire emblem is always silly.

Did you even read my entire post? I'm not discounting movement and canto at all, it's clearly strong, and it's always been strong. It is, however, not the only thing you're going to need. There are enough edge cases where having more killing power is better than having movement. 

And I'm glad you brought up the Enbar map, because that's a fairly good example. How are you instantly killing Death Knight with Claude without turn wheel abusing for a crit or having him grossly overleveled? None of my fliers had the firepower to one round that thing, but my Felix WM ate him alive. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Burklight said:

And I'm glad you brought up the Enbar map, because that's a fairly good example. How are you instantly killing Death Knight with Claude without turn wheel abusing for a crit or having him grossly overleveled? None of my fliers had the firepower to one round that thing, but my Felix WM ate him alive. 

I just stuck him in the face with the Spear of Assal, which has effectively 42 might versus cavalry (obviously not with Claude, but with one of my other fliers). You're definitely overkilling him with that weapon. Brave Axe technically works here as well if you're on the strong side, or if you're average but you picked up Death Blow along the way. Heck, Claude could fairly realistically manage a kill with Brave Bow and Death Blow.

Not to mention the fact that you should have access to multiple fliers. Strided fliers can reach the DK in the first turn, so you attack with one and if for some reason he doesn't die (either your guy is on the weak side and doesn't have good weapons, or you missed a hit) then a second flier can come and finish him off. Even if your flier took a counterattack, you can always just heal them up with Physic and they likely won't die, or you can just end the map by warping somebody to kill Hubert on the same turn (also accomplishable turn 1), since Hubert is really weak and dies to basically everything.

Edited by Silly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Silly said:

I just stuck him in the face with the Spear of Assal, which has effectively 42 might versus cavalry (obviously not with Claude, but with one of my other fliers). You're definitely overkilling him with that weapon. Brave Axe technically works here as well if you're on the strong side, or if you're average but you picked up Death Blow along the way. Heck, Claude could fairly realistically manage a kill with Brave Bow and Death Blow.

Not to mention the fact that you should have access to multiple fliers. Strided fliers can reach the DK in the first turn, so you attack with one and if for some reason he doesn't die (either your guy is on the weak side and doesn't have good weapons, or you missed a hit) then a second flier can come and finish him off. Even if your flier took a counterattack, you can always just heal them up with Physic and they likely won't die, or you can just end the map by warping somebody to kill Hubert on the same turn (also accomplishable turn 1), since Hubert is really weak and dies to basically everything.

I did forget about Spear of Assal. It's also possibly I'm just very unlucky with hit rates and crit counters, but I found quite often that things like a brave bow (which I did specifically try to use to kill him) had a hit rate <60%, which isn't going to ORKO fairly often (it didn't for  me), and a lot of  my fliers couldn't take a crit on counter attack from him without dying, and his crit was somewhere around 35% IIRC. These are pretty easy numbers to get a desired result if you're willing to divine pulse every time you get a 35% crit on CA, but I assumed that was off the table for discussions like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Garlyle said:

@leesangstar10 I start to feel like my perspective is a bit different when it comes to classes. Mounted units and canto are great, I agree with that, but it seems like you'd give them that class even when it's not intended. And then there's me, who have mounted units, fast swordsmen, long range mages, also baits in form of wall units and dodgetanks. I guess that's the result of us taking our strategy differently. If I have to guess, I'm trying to play it more safely while you're trying to do it more quickly.

Would like to see more opinion of yours on skills and crest weapons in your tier analysis.

You also mentioned something about Annette, that might hurt her overall score for me as well. Not that I used Crusher a lot, but the lack of it in lategame could be problematic.

I mean you don't want a team full of mounts. I am ignoring team synergy. Just rating the unit's best build.

I did talk about some skills before like Ashe having access to death blow, which is the reason why I used to put him in A. However, I realized Ashe struggles in mid game if you make him go brigand vs Bernie who's personal is kinda like death blow that also works on enemy phase. I probably should include maybe builds, but that is too much work. Maybe if we all work together it is possible.

Crest weapons is kind of the reason I am unsure about the placement within the tier because having early access to it makes a unit's early game potential insane. Some examples are Ingrid and Sylvain. Durability isn't even a problem too since time skip restores weapon durability. 

Annette just sucks in general lol. She has 4 move majority of the game, which hurts her score a lot.(Lorenz and Lysithea doesn't have this issue due to relic), the worst overall spell list imo, doesn't have the greatest growths, and late game crusher is just the icing on the cake. Idk I kinda hate her because I had a dumb debate with someone that thinks Annette is one of the best if not best magic user(her character is nice, but that debate made me frustrated for days).

2 hours ago, Chaotix said:

@leesangstar10

Tier list looks mostly good but I wanted to bring up a couple of points:

Sylvain and Ferdinand - they seem to be in a good place. However, worth mentioning that Paladin is typically better as an endgame class than Great Knight (Wyvern Lord is better than both of course). Additionally, Sylvain gets a very early Relic weapon and can be a Dark Knight, might be worth considering moving him up slightly.

Marianne. It looks like you're considering her only as a mage, but she has a strength for Flying, a hidden talent in Lances, and Frozen Lance. She can be an early-game Pegasus Knight for Golden Deer, and she can probably get there faster than Hilda (although Hilda ultimately has better potential). Her decent Faith/Reason spell selection is then icing on the cake and she can flex easily into Holy Knight if you want to make use of it. While I don't think she's anywhere near as good as Ingrid or Petra, I do think she could stand to move up to somewhere around bottom of A tier/top of B tier.

Like I said I am not considering team synergy. Basically judging on the unit's best build so that's why I just have everybody as a wyvern lord. Might give some points in flexibility if the other build is good. I do agree I should bump Sylvain up because of his early access to relic, but I wasn't sure where within the tier he should go. 

Marianna. The reason why I only considered her as a mage only because you won't be able to use physics if you are any other class. Her utility provides much more than her combat imo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/21/2019 at 7:07 PM, Burklight said:

I did forget about Spear of Assal. It's also possibly I'm just very unlucky with hit rates and crit counters, but I found quite often that things like a brave bow (which I did specifically try to use to kill him) had a hit rate <60%, which isn't going to ORKO fairly often (it didn't for  me), and a lot of  my fliers couldn't take a crit on counter attack from him without dying, and his crit was somewhere around 35% IIRC. These are pretty easy numbers to get a desired result if you're willing to divine pulse every time you get a 35% crit on CA, but I assumed that was off the table for discussions like this.

Even a simple knightkneeler in conjunction with a relic tends to be enough to take down the Death Knight. With the lance of ruin it has (22 +5)*2 = 54 attack before character stats, skills, battalions, etc. Effectiveness is really strong in this game in general.

Edit: Correction, effective arts don't double their own might. Or at least not this one. So it's (22*2) +5, or 49.

Edited by Cysx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, leesangstar10 said:

Crest weapons is kind of the reason I am unsure about the placement within the tier because having early access to it makes a unit's early game potential insane. Some examples are Ingrid and Sylvain. Durability isn't even a problem too since time skip restores weapon durability. 

The thing to note here is that a unit doesn't need a matching crest to use a crest weapon. You just need literally any crest at all. You could even use the weapon without a crest as long as you're willing to take 10 free damage afterwards (essentially turning the crest weapon into a Devil Axe). The 10 damage can't even kill you, so it's usually not a big deal.

You lose out on the combat art, but the combat arts that crest weapons unlock are generally very situational or not that great.

Sure, Lorenz gives you access to Thrysus, but should that really count towards Lorenz's viability? What if I just recruited Lorenz and then immediately stuck him on the bench?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Silly said:

Sure, Lorenz gives you access to Thrysus, but should that really count towards Lorenz's viability? What if I just recruited Lorenz and then immediately stuck him on the bench?

I am biased here, but I think it should. That's value he has others don't, and makes his recruitment a higher priority than most others, if you want the Thyrsus that is. By being recruited earlier, he makes other get recruited later and gets more availability and room to grow. Though his case is particular and doesn't necessarily weakens your point about relics, just, incentives to recruit should naturally factor in when it comes to a "recruited" list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should LTC commander killing really be a defining criteria for character/class ranking?

I much prefer LTC enemy routing (regardless of the MAP) as the base criteria of evaluation.

Edited by Hyper L

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, leesangstar10 said:

Marianna. The reason why I only considered her as a mage only because you won't be able to use physics if you are any other class. Her utility provides much more than her combat imo. 

I think you've got to consider all the options the character has, not just the best option. Since characters can change class in between maps it means they can serve multiple roles in a single playthrough. You might have Marianne as a Physic-using staffbot on one map, but want to flex her as an extra flyer on the next map. That's possible to do in this game, and doesn't require too much effort in this particular case since she gets Physic at C Faith.

It might be especially relevant if you were doing, for instance, a draft. Let's say in your GD run you can't have Hilda as your early flyer, who is your next pick? Is it Leonie? Is it Marianne? She might not be the best option but the point is she's a viable alternative.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hyper L said:

Should LTC commander killing really be a defining criteria for character/class ranking?

I much prefer LTC enemy routing (regardless of the MAP) as the base criteria of evaluation.

Agreed. Unless your going for recrod LTC run, 1 turn commander killing is a terrible idea. It denies SO much exp to the rest of your units.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, wissenschaft said:

Agreed. Unless your going for recrod LTC run, 1 turn commander killing is a terrible idea. It denies SO much exp to the rest of your units.

I really don't think "think of the lost exp" is a good argument. No Fire Emblem game has been so difficult as to require you to have perfect "let me wring every bit of exp out of this map possible" play.

Does potential lost exp matter if your characters are still strong enough to clear maps? If extra exp at this point is a big factor, why are we not grinding extra kills on reinforcements? That technically results in even more exp gain on your units. Or heck, why are we not doing auxiliary battles to get more exp?

In the two runs that I have done, I've skipped maps that either didn't look very interesting to play or looked particularly vulnerable to skipping (kill a single boss that was within easy access). In other maps I played relatively efficiently towards the objective (usually 5 turn clears or less) but I still took the time to kill units and get chests and stuff.

My units mostly ended the game in the low 40's in terms of levels, which was more than enough to beat the game. I spoke to someone who had done a LTC run and their highest leveled unit going into the endgame was level 36, and that map was still completely doable. So my team of units in the 40's should have been fine. Sure, I could have gotten more exp, and leveled my people up to the high 40s or low 50s, but the lost exp from the occasional map that I skipped really isn't such a "terrible idea" if it wasn't super necessary in the first place.

------------------------------------------------

With that being said, I don't think the average tier list assumes absolute LTC. Generally I have seen lists run with the (somewhat hard to define) assumption of relatively efficient play. In many aspects efficient play shares a lot in common with LTC, but you don't run into some weird LTC quirks (like Ross technically saving turns because he is the only early game FE8 unit that can walk on water). You are probably not routing maps in efficient play if the objective is not rout (doing so is dumb, as often maps have out of the way enemies that actually cost a lot of time if you want to go kill them), but you are not necessarily warp skipping unless the skip in question is incredibly obvious to do (ex. single relatively weak boss in range of a warp).

It just so happens that many of the things in this game that are good in LTC are also good in efficient play. Wyverns are not only the best LTC class, but they're also the best if your goal is to just play relatively efficiently and kill enemies.

Edited by Silly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Garlyle said:

Lysithea has a clear advantage over Lorenz for Thrysus, as she can much easily one-shot the enemy units. Sure she's more balanced toward the easy Gremory path than the easy Dark Knight path, but that's just another reason to give her more magic range. She has better bases and growths in Mag and Spd, and sadly Dex, so her being the better killer is highly likely. Thrysus once again fixes her up for her low movement, and she can also stay out of range of even 3-range mages and archers. I only saw skills mentioned for Lorenz that can be universally learned by almost any units, and while his skill progression is tailored toward Dark Knight, it's also dangerous and grabs him into Cavalier route, where he suffers another -10% Spd growth. 

It may be easier that you cap at Dark Knight but level him as a regular caster before then, as I have on my first Golden Deer playthrough, albeit at the cost of DEF growth. Speed Penalty on just the Master rank isn't so relevant. Perhaps better yet one can cycle between horse and caster as you're leveling him depending on the map, as you progress in the game. Something like...going caster on desert and slower maps, and kill-squadding with Leonie as a mounted elsewhere. Then loan out the wand to Lys on maps when he's a Cav or Paladin. Something I'll play around with in future runs. In this way, he is at the very least more flexible than Lysithea pre-Dark Knight, and should perhaps be taken advantage of, as well as to give him more balanced stat growths in Speed and Defense going forward.

As for the stat comparisons:

His Magic stat is often sufficient to secure kills, without being overkill. His DEX is suffice to attain 100 hit chance against common enemies, further aided by having Reason Prowess and supports, again without being overkill, and allotting him decent crit.

His low Speed is even sufficient to double consistently, and not get doubled except in fringe cases like Swordmasters and Assassins, which barely scratch his chunky HP bar anyway, which I can confirm is preserved even if you do level him purely as a caster...something which the developers no doubt took into account.  

I repeat: Lorenz being tankier is very much a valid strength he holds over Lysithea, since it means he can front line, because I'd like to drive home again the fact that he isn't a traditional caster once you attain Master rank, and heck even while he's still leveling. If we were to account for carrying Lifetaker over on a New Game+ it's even better, because it can also be activated off of Frozen Lance on maps where you play him as a mounted unit. Once be becomes a Dark Knight, being a magic user that isn't afraid to take a few hits makes him the ideal niche user of Thrysus, for the advantage in countering even very distant foes during enemy phase. Something you would miss out on at times if you were to give it to...say...a squishy back line unit, with less enemy phase relevancy. It is because of this added flexibility that I still believe he comes to greatly outshine her as the staff's user as the game progresses, even if one were to make Lysithea a Dark Knight as well. Lifetaker means you don't generally have to rely on healers, as it's really quite easy to find a unit to kill and activate its effect with all that movement and range, going off of his sufficient mixed physical and magical damage, then position yourself to draw in more enemy attacks during the next enemy phase with canto.

Besides, I'd argue that mounted speed penalty of a mount is much harder on Lysithea than on Lorenz, because he has the HP and slightly better defenses to survive being doubled by things like Swordmasters and Assassins, or simply failing at evading a few hits during enemy phase. Could Lysithea really be counted on to do the same? Even with the use of Nosferatu, which slows you even further, and still requires you to take at times upwards for 20+ damage from a single hit before countering. Can she regularly risk drawing aggro from three, or four, or five enemies in one phase? Lorenz can, and with very little discretion.

As for skill uniqueness? He has what he needs to kill things, often in one turn just like Lysithea, despite the lower Magic stat. Sylvain doesn't get very unique reason skills, but does that make him any worse of a unit? The important thing is that the skill selections of both units allow him to hit from a variety of damage and speed drop ranges, depending on your need. Of course, being able to trivialize Death Knight on his first appearance is something unique to Lysithea, and no one can take that away from her.She indeed also has a number of effective damaging spells beyond that, even though the strength of her Miasma on its own often renders them redundant. If anything, it's perfect that Lorenz and Lysithea start the two out in the same house, since it pretty much ensures Lorenz gets that much needed Dark Seal, for use in scaling into late game. Ideally I wouldn't even pit the two against each other on a viability scale to begin with, as I think they sufficiently fill two completely different roles, and work perfectly fine together in the same army, but the issue of who gets the staff is a major one. I still maintain that Lysithea is the better user of it early on, but Lorenz simply makes far more use out of it as the game progresses, both offensively and defensively, and I should add without outright relying on the occasional damage reduction to do so. That is merely an added perk, that nonetheless activates often enough to keep you from falling below even half HP. 

My current playthrough's Lorenz actually has more natural HP than my Leonie right now, interestingly enough. And the two work very well together as a fast-clearing, self-sufficient support pair, with their equally great attacking ranges. Two Leonies is, in fact, better and faster than one! However, unlike with the more generally straightforward and consistent Leonie, I believe the Thrysus is a valuable component in allowing Lorenz to get to that level, as is Lifetaker, an ability that has been rightfully described as "niche" but which happens to suit him perfectly. He effectively becomes a Magic Bow Knight with built-in Pavise and a reliable self heal on player phase. It is potent. It is efficient. Perhaps something that needs to be seen to be believed, if his stats on paper give no good indication, which is understandable.

Now then, I feel I've said enough, and I must restrain the urge to even get started on Caspar, because I could seriously go on and on about Mr. One Man Army himself...~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The datamined Lunatic Mode has halved Exp and mid 40s end-game enemies.

If the released form keeps it that way, skipping Exp might not be a non-issue anymore.

I at least hope that it the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, TrueNoble said:

His DEX is suffice to attain 100 hit chance against common enemies, further aided by having Reason Prowess and supports, again without being overkill, and allotting him decent crit.

I really need to stress out, there's no argument to be had here. Magic accuracy is (Dex+Lck)/2. Crit is also (Dex+Lck)/2. Lysithea's growth total between Dex and Lck is 75. Lorenz' is 70. Both of their base totals are the same at 11. They pretty much have as close to the exact same accuracy and crit as possible.

If anything, Lysithea is the less accurate one, because her all purpose magic has 80 hit, while Lorenz' has 90; but she also gets access to Magic battalions that boost accuracy earlier than he does.

Edited by Cysx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Silly said:

The thing to note here is that a unit doesn't need a matching crest to use a crest weapon. You just need literally any crest at all. You could even use the weapon without a crest as long as you're willing to take 10 free damage afterwards (essentially turning the crest weapon into a Devil Axe). The 10 damage can't even kill you, so it's usually not a big deal.

You lose out on the combat art, but the combat arts that crest weapons unlock are generally very situational or not that great.

Sure, Lorenz gives you access to Thrysus, but should that really count towards Lorenz's viability? What if I just recruited Lorenz and then immediately stuck him on the bench?

Huh someone told me they could kill ig they were wrong. I think whether having a crest for a relic should still matter especially for your front line units early game. 10hp is still a lot early game, around a third of ur hp. Fighting 2 units on enemy phase could get you killed or near death. Imo only early access to a crest weapon should really matter in tiering cause losing 10hp matters for there and there are sacred weapons that are somewhat on par with crest weapons later on the game. 

Crest weapon not killing might affect Lorenz's tier placement though. If we assume optimal play, mages should never get hit. So I can basically have a 1hp mage throughout a whole map.

4 hours ago, Chaotix said:

I think you've got to consider all the options the character has, not just the best option. Since characters can change class in between maps it means they can serve multiple roles in a single playthrough. You might have Marianne as a Physic-using staffbot on one map, but want to flex her as an extra flyer on the next map. That's possible to do in this game, and doesn't require too much effort in this particular case since she gets Physic at C Faith.

It might be especially relevant if you were doing, for instance, a draft. Let's say in your GD run you can't have Hilda as your early flyer, who is your next pick? Is it Leonie? Is it Marianne? She might not be the best option but the point is she's a viable alternative.

I do think I should award a unit's flexibility more in this tier list since I'm ignoring team synergy. But Marianne as a flyer isn't that great tbh. Early flyer is nice, but having a healer early game with physics is much better and provide more to the team than a flyer. In a GD run, Marianne is going to be your best and most reliable healer. Lorenz and Lysithea can't learn physics and with there crap move, they aren't going to being healing much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cysx said:

I really need to stress out, there's no argument to be had here. Magic accuracy is (Dex+Lck)/2. Crit is also (Dex+Lck)/2. Lysithea's growth total between Dex and Lck is 75. Lorenz' is 70. Both of their base totals are the same at 11. They pretty much have as close to the exact same accuracy and crit as possible.

If anything, Lysithea is the less accurate one, because her all purpose magic has 80 hit, while Lorenz' has 90; but she also gets access to Magic battalions that boost accuracy earlier than he does.

Yup, hit rate's not a problem for either of them, which is why I didn't mention it prior. But since DEX was mentioned as one of Lysithea's advantages in a response,  I saw fit to add this in case there was any question of his accuracy among those that haven't leveled him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I think is being overlooked here is how easy it is to bump up early physical units to respectable levels of bulk by getting C Axes and D Armor. Armored Knight certification instantly grants 12 Def minimum, and for a lot of your units, that will be a boost of somewhere between 1 and 5 Def as long as you’re getting it at level 10. Since pretty much all physical units love going through Brigand, this isn’t even a major opportunity cost for many of them.

You can consider going up to C Armor for Weight -3 if the small detour won’t mess up your class route.

Aside from that, I’ll point out a couple of build options that jumped out at me because they’re staple Conquest Lunatic cheese builds. They still seem to work well here in Three Houses.

1. Vantage Lysithea pretty much does Vantage + Life & Death Ophelia's thing from Conquest: she has so much Mag that she can reach kill thresholds. Vantage comes quickly because Lysithea can easily do 25 actions with a combination of adjutancy and Soulblade abuse.

Rout objectives are mostly restricted to paralogues, but a 1-4 range instant kill unit is spectacular when you need to clear a dozen enemies all at once. You do need to snipe enemy battalion users to have no chance of death, but usually that’s not hard.

2. There are multiple magical units with unspectacular Reason spell lists who work very well with magic weapons in physical classes. Annette is a prime example: she can do something like Mage–Pegasus Knight–Wyvern Rider–Wyvern Lord abusing the Bolt Axe+. Lightning Axe helps conserve Bolt Axe uses until arcane crystals are buyable. She's a lot like Malig Knight Elise.

Marianne dearly misses the Arrow of Indra in any route but Crimson Flower, but she can do Mage–Pegasus Knight–Bishop–Mortal Savant. She retains her Physic utility at endgame while patching up her speed, gaining regular foot movement, and wielding Swordfaire Levin Sword+, which is really nice. She also gets her personal sword and its art for boss-killing purposes, or Soulblade with regular swords when you don’t need range. A nice bonus is that Marianne actually gets to use her Crest when she's swinging a magic sword around instead of casting spells.

Edited by Zoran

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zoran said:

2. There are multiple magical units with unspectacular Reason spell lists who work very well with magic weapons in physical classes. Annette is a prime example: she can do something like Mage–Pegasus Knight–Wyvern Rider–Wyvern Lord abusing the Bolt Axe+. Lightning Axe helps conserve Bolt Axe uses until arcane crystals are buyable. She's a lot like Malig Knight Elise.

Other than the part where the Bolt Axe is...not great, with its 15 weight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Other than the part where the Bolt Axe is...not great, with its 15 weight.

There's a reason why I recommended going through Pegasus Knight. Annette's relic weapon is lighter and stronger if you don’t need the range (and its unique combat art gives +20 might).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Zoran said:

One thing I think is being overlooked here is how easy it is to bump up early physical units to respectable levels of bulk by getting C Axes and D Armor. Armored Knight certification instantly grants 12 Def minimum, and for a lot of your units, that will be a boost of somewhere between 1 and 5 Def as long as you’re getting it at level 10. Since pretty much all physical units love going through Brigand, this isn’t even a major opportunity cost for many of them.

You can consider going up to C Armor for Weight -3 if the small detour won’t mess up your class route.

This is a good point. I think a lot people are going to just ignore armored knight because "its a bad class" and end up with squishier units then necessary. The class base bonus being permanent is a huge deal. If a character has natural affinity of armor then getting it to at least C rank is a pretty good idea.

Edited by wissenschaft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@TrueNoble Wow, wasn't there a way to briefly explain how Lorenz can be good? Never mind, I finally found some time to read through your paragraph.

For the record my blind run Lorenz went on Cavalier route, as the mounted and lance skill proficiency hinted me to do so. Didn't I knew that it comes with -10% speed growth, dropping his growth from 40 to 30, which is quite significant. On the first post timeskip map I had to actually rely more on Ignatz, because he was so slow, everyone doubled him. The thing I agree on that if he's not screwed in stats, he can be best as a Dark Knight.

While Lysithea is more squishy than the rest of the units, she still ends up as my MVP on the final maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Zoran said:

One thing I think is being overlooked here is how easy it is to bump up early physical units to respectable levels of bulk by getting C Axes and D Armor. Armored Knight certification instantly grants 12 Def minimum, and for a lot of your units, that will be a boost of somewhere between 1 and 5 Def as long as you’re getting it at level 10. Since pretty much all physical units love going through Brigand, this isn’t even a major opportunity cost for many of them.

You can consider going up to C Armor for Weight -3 if the small detour won’t mess up your class route.

I mean a lot of people ignore it because they don't want to be stuck with 4 move again. Brigand at least you gets 5 move and a really good mastery skill death blow on top of that.

Weight -3 is a crazy skill, but there isn't really a reason to class change into an armor knight for that. You can have tutor up to C which isn't that hard.

12 hours ago, Zoran said:

2. There are multiple magical units with unspectacular Reason spell lists who work very well with magic weapons in physical classes. Annette is a prime example: she can do something like Mage–Pegasus Knight–Wyvern Rider–Wyvern Lord abusing the Bolt Axe+. Lightning Axe helps conserve Bolt Axe uses until arcane crystals are buyable. She's a lot like Malig Knight Elise.

@Shadow Mir mention this and I just wanna add is that bolt axe is 15 weight and Annette has a 35% spd growth. She is in no way doubling, might get her double. Pegasus knight spd boost isn't enough since that's only 10%(basically your getting 1 extra spd every 10 lvls). She is also very squishy. Wyvern lords are front line units and she has base 25% hp and 20%def growths. Literally any grappler or axe enemy is going to one shot her.

12 hours ago, Zoran said:

There's a reason why I recommended going through Pegasus Knight. Annette's relic weapon is lighter and stronger if you don’t need the range (and its unique combat art gives +20 might).

Her relic comes so pretty late in the game(also requires the Gilbert C support and blue lion exclusive). It doesn't really matter if her relic is really strong, she still dies in one shot on the front line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that the suggestion is just to take the test for the promo gains, not to actually use armored knight.

As for the magic weapons builds. They certainly fix the lack of 1-2 range because forged lewyn swords exist.

In my experience, mage don't really need speed because i have yet to find an enemy that annette and lysithea does not oneshot. I am not sure if Annette can pull it off whitout fiendish blow, but if the prficiencies aren't too hard, going pegasus for some level to grap darting blows would fix 90% of her issues(you can go there after you learned fiendish blow, so when mages are at their worst when it comes to mobility, and darting blows would fix her speed even better than weight-3) obviosly you can't put a pegasus Annette in frontline, but she would have 6 mov + canto so it should not be to difficult to find her thing to kill. My main doubt is that everytime i used Crusher her accuracy was uninpressive, so i don't think she would be that reliable.

I am going to do BE next, so i am going to experiment whit things like cavalier/paladin Hubert.

 

Edited by Flere210

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...