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Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists

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27 minutes ago, Quirino said:

I'm currently playing Church route maddening (no NG+), and I wanted to try a different class for M!Byleth. In my previous playthroughs I've gone with Enlightened One each time. The tier list above recommends Falcon Knight for F!Byleth as a strong physical class with good movement, but I'm not sure what would be a good mounted class for M!Byleth. I wanted to see if perhaps Wyvern Lord or Bow Knight would suit him, since they are the strongest physical classes and have more move. Out of these two, is there one you would recommend in particular, or is Enlightened One still the best option?

Neither; go War Master. Less effort, crazier results. 8D

We all recommended mounted classes for Hard because Hard was just that easy.
While hit-and-run tactics still work, you won't be able to just steamroll everything in the way on Maddening, allowing infantry to actually contribute as the mounted units can't run too far ahead.
And of the infantry, War Master stands out because Quick Riposte is objectively busted against endgame enemies with all the Spd.

Edit: That said, if you insist on one of those two, I'd go Wyvern Lord over Bow Knight. I just really like Alert Stance.

Edited by Technoweirdo

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Some very very initial thoughts on Maddening mode with BL that I'm hoping people will point out ways to improve upon:

Chapter 1:

Without trying to rig anything other than some ~70+ hit rates, so far the best I've been able to beat this chapter in is 9 turns. If I were to give out points to who I thought were the best units for this chapter, I'd say:

Felix, Dimiti, Mercedes, Dedue, Byleth - 2

Everyone else - 1

Dimitri because of tempest lance and Felix because of his personal skill are your most powerful units in this map. Felix is especially useful because Edelgard can't ORKO him at base, something only Dedue is also capable of because of his personal skill. Dedue's personal skill, high base attack, and smash make him very useful for bow chip damage and taking hits. Mercedes is your healer.

Byleth's usefulness in this map will slightly vary depending on if they can get a point of speed. With a point of speed, Edelgard is no longer able to ORKO them, making them a much more flexible unit in terms of what they can do. Otherwise, Felix can replicate everything Blyeth does in this map by nature of being faster at base. While Felix's crest is nice, it wasn't necessary for the TC I got.

Based on the strategy I used, if Byleth doesn't get that point of speed, I don't think it's worth trying to swap out either Dedue or Felix for this map. If Byleth does get that point of speed, you could probably replace Felix or Dedue for anyone else with my strategy.

Assuming everyone's at base, my strategy was (assuming base stats):

Turn 1:

Byleth with an axe lures in Lorenz, while Felix with a bow lures in Dorthea.

Turn 2:

Byleth kills Dorthea. If Felix's crest didn't activate, he needs to use Wrath Strike. Mercedes chips Lorenz with an Iron bow so Dimitri can finish him with Tempest Lance. Dedue and Felix kill Ignatz.

Turn 3:

Felix lures in Hubert.

Turn 4:

Dimitri kills Hubert out of Edelgard's range with a bow. Dedue waits so that he can survive a round of combat from Edelgard and trades Dimitri his iron lance. Felix moves next to Dedue on a forest tile forming a line where Edelgard and Ferdinand can only attack one unit each.

Turn 5:

Chip Edelgard and Ferdinand with bow attacks and then finish them off with combat arts. Mercedes lures in Manuela.

Turn 6+:

Pick off one by one Manuela, Claude, Hilda, and Hanneman. Dedue lured Claude away from everyone else in my case.

Smart vulnerary use is key.


If I'm willing to let someone die or did better positioning from turn 6 on, I wouldn't be surprised if that saves a turn, but otherwise I think I'd need to rig a smash crit somewhere, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

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17 hours ago, Technoweirdo said:

Neither; go War Master. Less effort, crazier results. 8D

We all recommended mounted classes for Hard because Hard was just that easy.
While hit-and-run tactics still work, you won't be able to just steamroll everything in the way on Maddening, allowing infantry to actually contribute as the mounted units can't run too far ahead.
And of the infantry, War Master stands out because Quick Riposte is objectively busted against endgame enemies with all the Spd.

Edit: That said, if you insist on one of those two, I'd go Wyvern Lord over Bow Knight. I just really like Alert Stance.

Okay I will try War Master! I've never used one in my previous playthroughs and I'm curious to see if infantry will indeed be more useful in Maddening. Thank you for the suggestion!

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17 hours ago, Technoweirdo said:

Neither; go War Master. Less effort, crazier results. 8D

We all recommended mounted classes for Hard because Hard was just that easy.
While hit-and-run tactics still work, you won't be able to just steamroll everything in the way on Maddening, allowing infantry to actually contribute as the mounted units can't run too far ahead.
And of the infantry, War Master stands out because Quick Riposte is objectively busted against endgame enemies with all the Spd.

Edit: That said, if you insist on one of those two, I'd go Wyvern Lord over Bow Knight. I just really like Alert Stance.

Is getting Quick Riposte actually practical in Maddening? I never got particularly close to mastering a tier 4 job in Hard, but if class exp gain isn't reduced and maps are much longer/grindier...

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Currently playing through BL Maddening on NG. I'm only about 1/3 of the way through the game, but so far I'm getting a pretty decent sense of what its like. So far every unit that I expected to be good has been good for me.

I'm rolling with 4 primary combat units from my starting house: F!Byleth, Dimitri, Felix, Dedue.

Byleth is good, as expected, given her good bases, boosted exp growth, and fairly easy access to Pegasus Knight.

Dimitri and Felix have excellent offensive growths, and can actually get to the point where they can ORKO certain enemies. The fact that these two are barely getting ORKOs doesn't bode well for units with worse growths, however.

Dedue is really slow, and therefore doesn't really double or ORKO anything, but he hits relatively hard and his high defense has actually been quite useful in many situations. He doesn't like taking on mages or enemies that have a ton of attack though (for example, Ch 7 Edelgard), since he generally gets doubled by these for a looooooot of damage. He's closing in on level 20, and I'm hoping that the promotion to Wyvern Rider will patch up his speed issues (I'm not expecting him to double but he hopefully won't be molasses) while still retaining his better qualities.

Mercedes is pretty good since she's a healer, and you kind of need healing in this difficulty. Annette is only an okay combat unit (good chip but poor move and dies to literally everything), but she's been really useful utility-wise. I recommend training Authority to C+ right away, as Rally Speed is really, really important for meeting certain benchmarks.

I benched Ashe, Sylvain, and Ingrid. Ingrid in particular really suffers from her low strength growth in this mode. I imagine that she would be a lot better as a cross-recruit, since she can benefit from the broken enemy Pegasus growths when she isn't on your team. But on the BL route she really has issues meeting offensive benchmarks.

I added Catherine and Shamir to my team in Ch 5 and Ch 6. They've both been quite good for me, joining with competitive bases without needing much investment. Shamir's bases are notably a bit rough (reclass to Pegasus Knight ASAP for slightly more speed and flying utility), and she is statistically currently my worst unit, but they're still good and I needed to invest very little into her. Catherine is my strongest unit statistically (besides Byleth, who has been eating stat boosters), but her main drawback is that her weapon ranks are really bad in everything important (E rank Lance, Bows, Flying).

Current plans for future team composition is:

Wyvern Byleth + Dedue

Bow Knight Dimitri + Felix

Falcon Knight Catherine + Shamir

Will be filling the remaining combat slots as needed with Seteth, Gilbert, and cross recruits.

Support units will likely be a minimum of one healer, a Dancer, Annette as a rally bot, and other utility units as necessary.

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3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Is getting Quick Riposte actually practical in Maddening? I never got particularly close to mastering a tier 4 job in Hard, but if class exp gain isn't reduced and maps are much longer/grindier...

Though I'm only at Ch. 4...

Skill / class exp gains in combat (weekly studies are another thing) don't seem to be reduced.
Everyone got HP+5 well before hitting Lv. 5. Suppose it helps that exp gains are reduced.
Even ignoring that, enemy count seems to be higher, and they certainly do take more hits from multiple units.
Would say it's more than feasible. Didn't have too much trouble even back on Hard, though I did fight just about every other week.

If nothing else, you can try refreshing auxiliary battles until you get the wimpiest enemies near a forest tile.
Little scummy sure, but the payoff is way greater than say, grinding out S+ Swords for Swordfaire.

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I'm curious what weapons people are using. I'm finding training weapons to be the best so far (only on ch. 5 BL). My general strat is to have a training and steel of the unit's preferred weapon, a bow, a fist weapon, and a vulnary. Lances are top dog so far due to the first skill being amazing and the stats being solid (hit/wt/mt) and giving access to lots of good classes. I run a fist weapon to fiddle with AS during EP as well as being able to run down certain enemies, like mages, in one round with units like Felix (+5 on each hit is bonkers). Bows because the other ranged weapons suck.

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Training+ is important for maximizing your AS. If they don't take any AS penalties, your faster units can actually start to double most mid-speed enemies. I also find Iron+ to be useful for extra might, while only minimally impacting AS. In situations where I can afford to take less AS penalties, Iron is sometimes useful.

Steel weapons are situationally useful, but I've used them a lot less. They weigh soooooo much and their hit isn't as good, so they're really only good for attacking with a combat art on player phase, and then you usually have to trade the weapon away for EP or eliminate most of the enemies in the area so your steel weapon user doesn't take too many attacks.

As far as weapon types go, axes are kind of bad in the very early game because you eat so much AS loss from using them, and their hit rates are kind of shaky. After you gain access to the forge, however, this problem is mostly fixed, and axes have high might and lead into some really good classes.

Lances are the best early game weapon for raw damage because Tempest Lance is really good, but there isn't a huge reason to invest in lances past C rank (outside of a few units who get good combat arts) because most important classes do not require more than that. Also, lances are statistically very similar to bows, but bows have 1-2 range, so given the option to use either I would rather just stick with bows (and maybe keep a lance as backup in case I really need to hit something with Tempest Lance).

Swords are good early game weapons since they are the lightest and most accurate, and those two qualities are in high demand in the first few maps, but I find that they fall off heavily in terms of desirability past the early game because none of the really good classes want sword rank.

Bows are obviously very good, and even if you don't train bow rank at all, it's good to have one as a backup. They are probably the one weapon type that basically everyone should have access to. 

I never really liked fists, but I can see that they could be situationally really useful to meet benchmarks. A lot of the times I'm slightly pinched for item slots so it's usually the situational stuff that gets cut. Note that in my current maddening run I'm basically only using "excellent" units. My party currently has the AS necessary to double most enemies. But if your units are slower/worse I could see fists being better.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, overall past the early game most weapon types are actually pretty close in terms of how well they function (with bows being the big stand out exception). Which weapon ranks you actually train is more of a question of which of the strong classes you want to go for rather than which weapons are best. For example, swords aren't actually bad statistically, but I don't really like them because they don't lead into any particularly desirable classes.

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I'm guessing the desirable classes are BK, wyvern, peg, and warmaster? At the rate I'm going, I'm not sure my casters will get into master classes, so I don't think about what they need much (apart from spell/rally list).

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I think that BK and Wyvern/Falco get even better on Maddening, to be honest.

Bows are better in this mode than on Hard, since avoiding counters is so valuable. And Canto is more important because you want to be able to attack enemies, but also really want to be able to reposition yourself afterwards, since you can't usually take many hits on EP without dying. Not having canto restricts who you can attack, since some targets are unsafe to engage without being able to retreat afterwards.

War Master is probably the best footlocked class. If you're find with grinding a little for Quick Riposte, it's a useful skill. And the damage output lets you snag some KOs that you might not otherwise be able to get cleanly.

In terms of magic classes, it's pretty much the same as on Hard. Bishop/Gremory for utility. Dark Knight for damage.

Edited by Silly

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4 hours ago, Silly said:

 

 Bows are better in this mode than on Hard, since avoiding counters is so valuable. And Canto is more important because you want to be able to attack enemies, but also really want to be able to reposition yourself afterwards, since you can't usually take many hits on EP without dying. Not having canto restricts who you can attack, since some targets are unsafe to engage without being able to retreat afterwards. 

That's a good point. But hear me out: Great Knight is probably being slept on. I haven't played a Maddening mode yet, but if the AS of enemies and attack of enemies is as bad as it looks (and boy does it look bad), then Great Knight's +8 Defense is going to be incredibly relevant for the endgame, and its relatively low speed bonuses / growths might be entirely negligible.

Great Knight has 7 move, Canto, and +8 Defense. Every battle pushes +2 Armor exp, which means A+ Armor (aka Weight -5) is on the books for any Great Knight.

Perhaps footlocked classes will continue to suck due to the lack of Canto, but Edelgard has an important difference: Edelgard has Raging Storm, which means she can attack-and-move (and attack again, and again, and again) as long as you're willing to spend a bit of weapon-durability on the turn. Her lack of Canto in Emperor form is not as bad as other characters.

Its theorycraft of course, but there's something to be said about +10 Defense. That's... a serious bonus, one that wasn't really relevant in Hard mode but might be very relevant with the inflated stats in Maddening. At a minimum, the +8 Defense on Great Knight might make Edelgard's best endgame class in Maddening be Great Knight (instead of Wyvern Lord).

It really depends on the benchmark stats at endgame.

 

----------

 

Canto / Axefaire / Lancefaire is kind of weird as endgame abilities go, but it does provide some flexibility that other classes don't have. Lancefaire is relevant for Horseslayers and Axefaire for Hammers and Maces. Edelgard's route also has Arrow of Indra and Edelgard actually has a great Magic stat.

With 40 STR and -5 Weight, Edelgard would  be able to wield the Arrow of Indra with only 1 AS loss. Great Knight unfortunately only provides +Armor training (no riding bonus, so don't expect +1 Mov by endgame). But -5 Weight looks like it is feasible if Edelgard actually stays in Fighter -> Armored Knight -> Armored Lord -> Emperor / Great Knight route.

Edited by dragontamer

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48 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

That's a good point. But hear me out: Great Knight is probably being slept on. I haven't played a Maddening mode yet, but if the AS of enemies and attack of enemies is as bad as it looks (and boy does it look bad), then Great Knight's +8 Defense is going to be incredibly relevant for the endgame, and its relatively low speed bonuses / growths might be entirely negligible.

Great Knight has 7 move, Canto, and +8 Defense. Every battle pushes +2 Armor exp, which means A+ Armor (aka Weight -5) is on the books for any Great Knight.

Perhaps footlocked classes will continue to suck due to the lack of Canto, but Edelgard has an important difference: Edelgard has Raging Storm, which means she can attack-and-move (and attack again, and again, and again) as long as you're willing to spend a bit of weapon-durability on the turn. Her lack of Canto in Emperor form is not as bad as other characters.

Its theorycraft of course, but there's something to be said about +10 Defense. That's... a serious bonus, one that wasn't really relevant in Hard mode but might be very relevant with the inflated stats in Maddening. At a minimum, the +8 Defense on Great Knight might make Edelgard's best endgame class in Maddening be Great Knight (instead of Wyvern Lord).

It really depends on the benchmark stats at endgame.

 

----------

 

Canto / Axefaire / Lancefaire is kind of weird as endgame abilities go, but it does provide some flexibility that other classes don't have. Lancefaire is relevant for Horseslayers and Axefaire for Hammers and Maces. Edelgard's route also has Arrow of Indra and Edelgard actually has a great Magic stat.

With 40 STR and -5 Weight, Edelgard would  be able to wield the Arrow of Indra with only 1 AS loss. Great Knight unfortunately only provides +Armor training (no riding bonus, so don't expect +1 Mov by endgame). But -5 Weight looks like it is feasible if Edelgard actually stays in Fighter -> Armored Knight -> Armored Lord -> Emperor / Great Knight route.

From what I have read, I think Great Knight's needing high ranks in both Armor and Riding are what makes it unappealing, especially with less skill experience to go around.

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58 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

That's a good point. But hear me out: Great Knight is probably being slept on. I haven't played a Maddening mode yet, but if the AS of enemies and attack of enemies is as bad as it looks (and boy does it look bad), then Great Knight's +8 Defense is going to be incredibly relevant for the endgame, and its relatively low speed bonuses / growths might be entirely negligible.

 Great Knight has 7 move, Canto, and +8 Defense. Every battle pushes +2 Armor exp, which means A+ Armor (aka Weight -5) is on the books for any Great Knight.

 Perhaps footlocked classes will continue to suck due to the lack of Canto, but Edelgard has an important difference: Edelgard has Raging Storm, which means she can attack-and-move (and attack again, and again, and again) as long as you're willing to spend a bit of weapon-durability on the turn. Her lack of Canto in Emperor form is not as bad as other characters.

Its theorycraft of course, but there's something to be said about +10 Defense. That's... a serious bonus, one that wasn't really relevant in Hard mode but might be very relevant with the inflated stats in Maddening. At a minimum, the +8 Defense on Great Knight might make Edelgard's best endgame class in Maddening be Great Knight (instead of Wyvern Lord).

It really depends on the benchmark stats at endgame.

High defense is good, but in many situations the speed you sacrifice is not worth it. Against strong enemies, the extra defense is far outweighed by the fact that you're getting attacked twice for significant damage.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For example, let's be generous and assume Edelgard finishes the game at level 45, going Noble -> Fighter -> Armored Knight -> Fortress Knight -> Great Knight for maximum defense growth. She ends with the following average stats: 61 HP, 36 Def, 18 Res, 18 Spd (rounded to the nearest whole number). Let's throw in 6 extra defense and res from a battalion (which is roughly what Supreme Armored Co provides.)

First off, let me say that pretty much every endgame enemy will double you (outside of armored knights). Even if you trade some defense for speed by going into something like Brigand instead of Armored Knight, you're still getting doubled by most enemies. Next, let's establish that most endgame enemies hover around the 50-60 attack mark, with many in the mid-50s. This is mostly true from what I've seen.

This means that physically, Edelgard is taking 16-36 damage per combat. This puts her in the 3RKO range, with a 2RKO or 4RKO being possible if the enemies are particularly strong or weak. Magically, mages will likely ORKO her, or come close if they are weak, given that they double her and target her much lower Res.

Now lets assume you go Noble -> Fighter -> Brigand -> Wyvern Rider -> Wyvern Lord. Now at level 45 you average 59 HP, 26 Def, 18 Res, 31 Spd. Again, let's throw in roughly 6 defense and res from a battalion (for example, Black Eagle Pegasus Co).

Enemy AS at this point kind of varies wildly between routes, and nobody has posted pictures of endgame BE yet, but based on other routes 31 AS means you either don't get doubled by mid-speed enemies at all, or are a couple of stat boosters away from not getting doubled.

This means that you take 18-28 physical damage per round of combat from all but the fastest enemy types, which is actually quite comparable to what the Great Knight takes. On the magic side, mages don't actually come close to ORKOing you, since they're on the slow side and don't double you.

The one thing to note though is that stat boosters do change the math defensively. The Great Knight benefits a lot more from stacking defense from other sources, such as shields, stat boosters, etc. For example, if you scrape up an extra 5 defense, all of a sudden enemies are dealing 6-26 damage to you, and you're quite tanky. If you find an extra 10 defense, now enemies are mostly scratching you physically (you still get wrecked by mages though).

However, agaisnt boss enemies, the math works in the opposite way. A 70+ attack boss, for example, looks really scary when they double you, and a lot less scary when they don't. For example, think of the Death Knight. When you fight him early on, he ORKOs even your tankiest units if he manages to double, but high speed units can actually live a round of combat against him. The higher the enemy's attack is relative to your defenses the worse getting doubled is. This especially true for Rhea, who always targets the weaker of your two defensive stats (which means she almost certainly ORKOs you because every physical class has shitty res).

On the other end of the spectrum, offensively it's clear that the Wyvern is better. It obviously has more mobility, and more damage output due to its higher strength and ability to actually double slower enemies. The Great Knight is going to struggle to get ORKOs, whereas the Wyvern is actually able to meet or come close to the benchmarks necessary to do so. Here, it's clear that the Wyvern has a much bigger benefit from stat boosters and other sources of +damage and +speed, as it better allows it to meet these benchmarks.

Edited by Silly

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19 minutes ago, dragontamer said:

You forgot the +8 Class Defense on the Great Knight class. Level 45 Great Knight Edelgard will be 44 Defense, which means you're only taking 10 to 20 damage from most enemies, or Emperor class, which would drop the damage down to 8 to 18 damage.

I've factored in that bonus already.

6 (base) + 9 * 0.35 (first nine levels) = 9.15

Promoting to Armored Knight sets her base defense to 12.

12 (level 10 base) + 10 * .45 (10 levels as armored knight) = 16.5

Promoting to Fortress Knight sets her base defense to 17.

17 (level 20 base) + 10 * .5 (ten levels as fortress knight) + 15 * .4 (fifteen levels as great knight) + 8 (great knight class bonus) = 36 defense

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Also Great Knight struggles to double anything without a looooooot of speed investment. Mid-slow enemies you will likely need around 30 AS to double, and mid-fast enemies you will likely need 40 AS to double. Slow enemies you can probably always double because enemy armors are sloooooow, and the blazing fast enemies you will never double.

Edited by Silly

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Ah darn, I didn't edit quite in time. I was hoping to have beaten your response once I redid the math. Edelgard is super-blessed in +Def in my last save, so when I spot-checked my save for some numbers, it was very far off from the average.

 

16 minutes ago, Silly said:

Also Great Knight struggles to double anything without a looooooot of speed investment. Mid-slow enemies you will likely need around 30 AS to double, and mid-fast enemies you will likely need 40 AS to double. Slow enemies you can probably always double because enemy armors are sloooooow, and the blazing fast enemies you will never double. 

 

The general idea of Great Knight is to give up on doubling. When a 53 AS Pegasus comes your way, it really doesn't matter if you are 18 speed or 30 speed. Although... to be fair... 63 Attack makes 36 Def a moot point.

 

EDIT: Clearly different routes have different endgames. Blue Lions has this War master with 44 Speed / 53 Attack. Edelgard has virtually no chance to get to 40 Speed under any build, and that's 53 Attack with Knuckles. So she's getting 4x hit if this Warmaster comes in on her. Hmmm... it'd be nice to actually have Black Eagle Maddening endgame benchmarks to look at.

 

 

Golden Deer

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Edited by dragontamer

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The super fast enemies with high attack you probably need one of the following tactics:

  1. War Master with class mastery grinded out
  2. Some sort of very high defense stacking (Dedue can almost certainly get to the point where he's completely fine taking hits from that, for example) 
  3. A lot of avoid (enemy hit isn't insanely high and you can easily stack a ton of avoid on the right units)
  4. A defensive gambit that lets you survive
  5. Just killing the enemy first on player phase

Conveniently, Bow Knight and fliers are the best at doing point 5. Fliers are also good at point 3, so they actually serve double duty here. Great Knight is probably the best class to do point 2 if you're interested in that though.

Edited by Silly

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1 hour ago, Silly said:

The super fast enemies with high attack you probably need one of the following tactics:

  1. War Master with class mastery grinded out
  2. Some sort of very high defense stacking (Dedue can almost certainly get to the point where he's completely fine taking hits from that, for example) 
  3. A lot of avoid (enemy hit isn't insanely high and you can easily stack a ton of avoid on the right units)
  4. A defensive gambit that lets you survive
  5. Just killing the enemy first on player phase

Conveniently, Bow Knight and fliers are the best at doing point 5. Fliers are also good at point 3, so they actually serve double duty here. Great Knight is probably the best class to do point 2 if you're interested in that though. 

 

Good point on #3.

 

Flying is +10 Avoid (Wyvern Lords / FalcoKnights class ability), Sword Prowess 3 is +13 Avoid / Lance Prowess 4 is +12 Avoid (two weapons to handle Swordbreaker+ / Lancebreaker+), 3x A supports (probably Bow Knights) is +30 Avoid, Even a modest +30 Speed will bring you to 80 Avoid. Alert Stance for 95 Avoid. If you get the right "Breaker" skill you're up to another +20 on top of that, and Battalions aren't even factored in yet.

 

Bow Knights are the best at setting up Linked Attacks. Do you know if Linked Attacks work on Enemy Phase? (I don't think I ever tested that...)

 

Avoid-tanking seems like the way to go given the stats of the endgame offense units.

Edited by dragontamer

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I am on chapter 7 on BL NG Maddening.

For BL route, I think Cyril is underrated if you get him as early as possible in the month and get his bow rank to C+ with goals / individual lessons for Point Blank along with Flying/task. He isnt as squishy as you think either, he quickly replaced Ashe as a archer, but chose the Brigand route for Death blow & point blank helps out. I would guess this would be also good for GD. 

I am also wondering if it is even possible to get master class abilities. The earlier classes with noble/commoner, beginner, and intermediate have been obtainable before the next tier classes, but this mode seem to require lots of chip damage from everyone that even without grinding and normal paralogue and main battles could be enough to have some use of the abilities. I would not hype of War Master if you can only use this ability for a chapter.

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I was going to have Byleth focus to be a war master, but I am starting to have doubts. Apparently endgame enemies are really fast, and having quick riposte would make dealing with those a lot easier. However, quick riposte is only around for the last couple of chapters in the game in most cases, and I wonder if War Master is good enough until class mastery. Would it not be easier to have bow knight (rather easy for Byleth) or wyvern lord (a bit harder for Byleth) and use a impregnable wall for example? Then he has high move throughout the game and he's still able to lure endgame enemies without dying. Is War Master good enough before class mastery, as a footlocked class in maddening mode you reckon?

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4 hours ago, Quirino said:

I was going to have Byleth focus to be a war master, but I am starting to have doubts. Apparently endgame enemies are really fast, and having quick riposte would make dealing with those a lot easier. However, quick riposte is only around for the last couple of chapters in the game in most cases, and I wonder if War Master is good enough until class mastery. Would it not be easier to have bow knight (rather easy for Byleth) or wyvern lord (a bit harder for Byleth) and use a impregnable wall for example? Then he has high move throughout the game and he's still able to lure endgame enemies without dying. Is War Master good enough before class mastery, as a footlocked class in maddening mode you reckon?

I will say that using a Knowledge Gem should speed things up significantly. Most other Master classes and Advanced classes don't have particularly great mastery rewards, so War Masters wouldn't really have a lot of competition on that end. The other classes are indeed better in general though, and Impregnable Wall can functionally do something similar. However, Byleth also gets Battalion Vantage at C rank in Authority. If I'm reading the interaction between Quick Riposte and that skill correctly, that should mean that Byleth with Quick Riposte will essentially Brave every enemy on Enemy Phase with any weapon, so the concern that he'll take any damage should go out the window with a high Crit build. It at least seems that there's a possible niche for it if you set things up correctly beforehand. 

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10 minutes ago, LegendOfLoog said:

I will say that using a Knowledge Gem should speed things up significantly. Most other Master classes and Advanced classes don't have particularly great mastery rewards, so War Masters wouldn't really have a lot of competition on that end. The other classes are indeed better in general though, and Impregnable Wall can functionally do something similar. However, Byleth also gets Battalion Vantage at C rank in Authority. If I'm reading the interaction between Quick Riposte and that skill correctly, that should mean that Byleth with Quick Riposte will essentially Brave every enemy on Enemy Phase with any weapon, so the concern that he'll take any damage should go out the window with a high Crit build. It at least seems that there's a possible niche for it if you set things up correctly beforehand. 

Are you sure the interaction between vantage and quick riposte isnt: Player attacks, enemy attacks, player attacks?

I don't personally know what it actually is, but that seems a lot more logical than: Player attacks, player attacks, enemy attacks.

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20 minutes ago, Silly said:

Are you sure the interaction between vantage and quick riposte isnt: Player attacks, enemy attacks, player attacks?

I don't personally know what it actually is, but that seems a lot more logical than: Player attacks, player attacks, enemy attacks.

That's probably correct, yeah. So you would need a Brave weapon or a Gauntlet to get two hits in a row. If you have one of those, then you should get 4 hits total because of Quick Riposte, so a Killer Knuckles or something with a Crit battalion sounds fairly reliable at one rounding on Enemy Phase so long as the unit has Retribution active. 

Edited by LegendOfLoog

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Just now, LegendOfLoog said:

That's probably correct, yeah. So you would need a Brave weapon or a Gauntlet to get two hits in a row. If you have one of those, then you should get 4 hits total because of Quick Riposte, so a Killer Knuckles or something with a Crit battalion sounds fairly reliable at one rounding on Enemy Phase.

Uh, I don't think it works that way, because the enemy is still initiating combat...

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Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Uh, I don't think it works that way, because the enemy is still initiating combat...

Ah, then never mind, I guess. Doesn't sound all that useful in that case. 

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