Fire Emblem Three Houses Unit Tier Lists

[Shadow Mir]

5 hours ago, Garlyle said:

Raphael - Raphael was the wall. Making him a Fortress Knight was the best choice, but Great Knight is also a good option. As a Fortress Knight he took no damage from monsters and brawlers, making him a great bait unit as well. Great Knight was the same - a bit more mobile, but it can only use Gauntlets when dismounted. Gauntlet is a solid choice of weapon for him to double his enemies. A healer adjutant would make him basically invincible.

How do you get him to work? Because he's one of those units I find extremely hard to get up to speed, especially if he ever falls behind. Among the Golden Deer, he's one of the two units I find rather hard to work with, Lorenz being the other.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Kuralul]

3 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

How do you get him to work? Because he's one of those units I find extremely hard to get up to speed, especially if he ever falls behind. Among the Golden Deer, he's one of the two units I find rather hard to work with, Lorenz being the other.

Just put it as an adjutant in Byleth and carry some Bandits battle with him

[Garlyle]

12 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

How do you get him to work? Because he's one of those units I find extremely hard to get up to speed, especially if he ever falls behind. Among the Golden Deer, he's one of the two units I find rather hard to work with, Lorenz being the other.

I don't remember ever falling behind, he's quite sturdy and he can double with gauntlets - a guy like him can always catch up with the experience. I understand the problem with Lorenz, but mainly because I tried to make him into a lance cavalier, which he's too slow to excel.

[NiceLikeChrist]

Just finished a hard/classic golden deer run after 60 hours and here are my thoughts on the cast. I only ever used my golden deer units and Flayn as my dancer. 10 units every map. Didn't recruit any students and never used the teachers outside of their paralogues. All my students were level 38-42 in the final battle (Flayn was maybe 33).

Lysithea

Lysithea (176 battles, 139 victories): She deserves her own tier. Shortly after she comes online (which doesn't take long) she one shots anything in her path. With +1 range from S rank reason and the staff from Lorenz' paralogue giving another +2 range, she nukes everything from 5 tiles away. FIVE. She is safe, she is incredibly strong, and she can clear the way for other units with help from your dancer. I took her to monk>mage>warlock>gremory and she mastered every class in no time at all thanks to her personal skill. Oh and I forgot she also has warp. This girl is so strong that I almost forgot she has warp which turns many late game maps into sub 3 turn affairs. A ridiculous unit.

S Tier

Claude (299 battles, 169 victories): Claude actually racked up the most MVP's on my playthrough but maybe that's because I didn't want Lysithea to get out of control with her levels. He has great growths but once he gains access to his unique classes he just takes off. The guy is a flying ballista of doom and causes mayhem all over the map. I took him archer>sniper>wyvern master>barbarossa.

Byleth (264 battles, 146 victories): Byleth is the MC so his placement is expected. A very good unit overall. Not much to say but he gets the job done. I kept him as his unique class but I'd like to change it up on future playthroughs. Mercenary>enlightened one.

Hilda (277 battles, 151 victories): As part of the airborne trio she's another one who lays waste to every corner of a map. Good bulk so she can tank, good strength growths and accuracy is never a question when she's wielding axes. Once you slap on the accessory that nullifies effectiveness against flyers you can just send her off and not worry about a thing. Brigand>warrior>wyvern lord.

A Tier

Leonie (330 battles, 148 victories): The last member of my airborne trio. She's just a great all rounder and I always had confidence in her as a unit. Finished the game with over 45 speed so she was consistently doubling. Very balanced protections so you can send her out with a javelin to tank mages and physical units simultaneously. She isn't the strongest and won't completely destroy everything in her path but she's extremely reliable and will always come through. Not to mention I mastered paladin with her to have aegis on a flying unit. Pegasus knight>paladin>falcon knight.

Lorenz (298 battles, 168 victories): Another great all around unit. Enough strength and speed to easily double with most spells and enough mag to chunk with heavy spells. Very balanced defenses helps him bait and chip down most foes. Poison strike lets him send anything he comes into contact with into the red zone with life taker gives him self sustainability. Mage>dark mage>dark bishop>dark knight.

Raphael (216 battles, 118 victories): He took a while to come online for me but once he gained access to healing focus it was smooth sailing. Very poor res but enough defense and HP to reliably tank most other things. Enough strength to take out the majority of enemies with 2 gauntlet hits and with S rank in gauntlets his crit chance is 80% with killer knuckles+. This guy was automatic crits all day and would clean up nicely. Brawler>grappler>war master.

Marianne (63 battles, 34 victories): She was my designated healer and she did a great job. Physic always comes in handy and her heals are life saving and game changing. Her range is insane and she also puts out some respectable damage if you ever do decide to attack with her. Silence also comes in handy from time to time and definitely got Raphael out of some tight spots. If she got rescue maybe she could move up to S tier. Priest>bishop>holy knight.

B Tier

Ignatz (227 battles, 98 victories): As you can tell from the battle stats he isn't the hardest hitter of the bunch. But he does bring a lot of utility as a bow knight. He never misses and has great range so he's reliable for chip damage or to clean up some weaker foes. He won't be one shotting any bosses but he serves his purpose well. Archer>sniper>bow knight.

[Nankaina]

Oh boy I've been waiting to do this. This page seems lacking in Blue Lions as well so I'll do what I can to help:

Blue Lions Pre-Timeskip Tier List, including some units which have been stolen and all the teachers I could stand because why not:

F - Completely Unnecessary

Spoiler

 

Hanneman: Brings nothing to the table as a mage. By the time you can recruit him, you've already got a wonderful pair of mages in Annette and Mercedes, both likely already on par or superior to Hanneman. Affinity for Riding means he could be a late-game Mage Knight, but like, Marianne exists.

Bernadetta (BE): Easily the weakest archer I've tried, particularly in early game. Attempts to make up for it with contradictory skills: one which prevents getting hit, and one which increases her power when she's hurt. Stats simply don't compare to other options.

 

D - Mostly Useless

Spoiler

Ashe: Unfortunately mediocre stats and personal skill, and one of the few without a crest to add insult to injury. Early game he seems like one of the "well, he's still the best option" bowmen until you realize anyone can use a bow, and Felix exists. Later-game, completely and utterly shut down by Shamir.

C - Usable and Unremarkable

Spoiler

 

Sylvain: Focuses on lances and axes, where the two unique units of the house are a powerful lance and an axe. Utterly refuses to stand out compared to Dimitri and Dedue without HEAVY investment in an abnormal path to cut a niche. Even once he becomes a competent unit on his own, he's literally just discount Ferdinand (even has the Great Value version of the haircut). His only saving graces are a nice Prf weapon and the ability to be recruited early by F!Byleth.

Dorothea (BE): Begins with a promising start as a Spellsword, but Str growths would have to be lottery-winnings lucky to keep it beyond low levels. Ends up just being a support mage more than anything else, and there's already a support mage who blows her out of the water in the house by default.

Manuela: An actually decent mixed attacker, which is a rarity in this group. Still, splitting power between two offensive stats means neither is ever quite up to snuff with the heavy hitters. Completely outclassed by most dedicated healers in Faith, and by a good portion of the swordies in Sword.

Ignatz (GD): Powerful personal skill in Hit+20, which can stack with the Archer mastery Hit+20 for a pinpoint-accuracy longbowman. However, his stats almost always seem to mirror Ashe's but slightly lower, meaning he's reliant on that longbow to keep out of danger.

Marianne (GD): Super high Res means she's a heck of a magic wall, but that's about it. Terrible Str means she's reliant on the Levin Sword to do consistent sword damage, which is a heavy cost given its rarity and durability. Unfortunately frail as a healer, even with Nosferatu vampirism, meaning she relies a bit too heavily on remaining behind the vanguard and out of the action. Fancy schmancy crest though.

 

B - Impressive

Spoiler

 

Mercedes: Like a better Marianne. Focuses more on durability and - importantly - HP, meaning she can afford to act as a second mage when called upon. Deceptively tanky when combining Nosferatu, Live to Serve, HP +5, and her HP/Res spread. Physic also seems to come really early-game to her, providing potent recovery from miles away.

Dedue: His defense says it all, and to boot you get to add +4 Def when you're tanking. Which is usually, because he's a wall. I've seen some pretty impressive abuse of his stat spread from others, but even just letting him be the Fortress Knight he so clearly gestures you toward making him, he gets the job done well and consistently.

Flayn: One of the more niche-usage units. What she lacks in power, she makes up in support. Healing for longevity, rallies for extra power, incredible Charm for gambit usage and to make her a guaranteed Dancer if chosen for it. Flayn lives to help the team out from the sidelines more than anything else. Struggles with leveling up as a result, but whatayagunnadoo?

Petra (BE): One of the better units straight out of the gate when recruited. Good list of proficiencies which line up well with her stats, and a terror to face in the mock battle if she's not on your team. She's a fast and nimble sword user who can hit decently hard to boot. Unfortunately, Blue Lions starts with the best unit for that description, so Petra suffers from second-best-syndrome.

Ingrid: A tough unit to get started, but blossoms quickly into a threat. Pegasus Knight is the obvious choice, and it works phenomenally. Struggles with low Str regardless of level, but access to Killing weapons, doubles, Avoid boosts, Battalion Desperation, extra-powerful gambits, and a crest, all help to negate that low Str so that you won't even notice it.

 

A - Incredible

Spoiler

 

Byleth: Did anyone not see this coming? Player character is stupidly good at everything there is to do, because (s)he's actually God and has to be viable in any build. Struggles to keep up with the students' skill trees, since they get experience weekly while you're stuck balancing whether to get a few lessons in or level your characters up in battle. Nevertheless, seemingly unmatched Str as far as I can tell, alongside powerful abilities and a crest that's every bit as good as it sounds. A bit frail to the hits that actually connect, though they are few.

Dimitri: Also very little surprise here. Plays like the biggest Ephraim ripoff you've ever seen, with a touch of Clive mixed in for good measure. Plot says focus on lance, but he's probably best with a sword in the Lord class, since it's kind of unique anyway. Consistently overleveled to nobody's surprise, but deservedly so.

Ferdinand (BE): A unit who essentially negates counterattacks while also having a crest that can actually negate counterattacks. He thrives off of being at full HP, and thanks to the ubiquity of healing magic (as well as Prayer Ring, Blessed Lance, Songstress...) and his skill actively preventing him from taking damage, that's incredibly easy to maintain. Then on top of that he manages to have enough Def to shut down a considerable amount of the hits that do connect, and just enough Spd and Str to hit back hard. He single-handedly drops Sylvain down a tier.

Cyril: Typical villager archetype, and possibly the closest thing this game has to an Est. His personal skill makes it so that he's almost certain to be in the top five in every stat if you keep him on par with the others. Not to mention, the class mastery skills from Brigand and Archer, the two classes he's almost instantly able to pass certifications for, are some of the best for him. He's a Jack of All Trades, but certainly not a master of none.

 

A+ - Even More Incredible, but not Broken

Spoiler

Shamir: The Dex on this woman is unreal. Get her to be an Assassin as soon as you can get her on your team, grind to the class mastery (it'll be easy, since she dodges everything anyway and is literally designed to throw herself into enemy territory and let them all charge her), and watch her become the best Lethality user the entire game series has ever seen. And if that's not enough, she's a pre-promote who doesn't fall behind in stats when the other units start promoting, and the best bowman in the game bar none.

S - Stupidly Powerful or Broken

Spoiler

 

Felix: Let's start with the fact that he's the only student with a crest that activates simply by "using a weapon", meaning his crest activates all the time for a little extra damage. Then add on that he's got incredible Spd so that he gets twice the opportunity for it. Then we'll mention that he's proficient in both sword and bow, and can outperform Ashe on bow despite Ashe's major skill level advantage. After that, we'll go into the fact that he can get a budding talent in Reason that gives him a Crit +10 in black magic, as well as a proficiency in it, meaning he's now a triple threat with usable Mag and Str. Oh, and there's the fact that just not including a Battalion (which is unnecessary since he'll be doubling everything anyway) gives him a free 5 damage because why not (and that includes early-game before battalions are unlocked). Able to fill a huge variety of niches extraordinarily well from the get-go.

Annette: Anyone who's ever played Path of Radiance will understand when I say that Annette is basically just Soren. You want wind magic? You want doubles? You want crits every three hits or so even from Level 1? You want Annette. Oh, and she has a crest that can give her more Magic uses, and out-stats Hanneman in pretty much everything. But EVEN IF YOU DON'T WANT HER AFTER ALL THAT, she's still got Rally Str/Spd from an obscenely early point, then Rally Str/Spd/Res from mid-game, and in case that's not enough, she's the only character who gets a FOURTH rally, allowing you to Rally Str/Spd/Res/Mvt, and being one of only two characters who can increase an ally's Mvt, the other being Byleth.

Catherine: Another unit who simply gets a free stat boost by existing without a battalion, this time taking a straight 5 less damage for it. But then, she comes out of the gate with proficiency in Brawling and the unique Thunderbrand, meaning she's got two kinds of brave weapon. Oh, and then she's fast because of course she is, meaning with LITERALLY ZERO EFFORT you have a quad-build who then proceeds to tank like a mofo after she demolishes whatever was foolish enough to be in her range. Oh, did I mention she has high critical chance? I don't think I've ever even seen her get all four hits in, because inevitably one of them is a crit and kills before the final one gets a chance to. She's the only brawler you'll ever need (Sorry Raphael/Caspar/Dedue) and is impossibly quick to kill virtually everything.

 

 

[Shadow Mir]

7 hours ago, Garlyle said:

I don't remember ever falling behind, he's quite sturdy and he can double with gauntlets - a guy like him can always catch up with the experience. I understand the problem with Lorenz, but mainly because I tried to make him into a lance cavalier, which he's too slow to excel.

The problem is, Raphael is prone to getting doubled if he's not using gauntlets (and he's not nearly sturdy enough to make up for this), and if he IS, he has to deal with gauntlets being so weak, which hinders his ability to kill things. These problems combined form a Morton's Fork where I struggle to find a role for him, because Hilda, Leonie and Byleth are infinitely more reliable than he is on offense and defense.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Heathcliff]

7 hours ago, NiceLikeChrist said:

Just finished a hard/classic golden deer run after 60 hours and here are my thoughts on the cast. I only ever used my golden deer units and Flayn as my dancer. 10 units every map. Didn't recruit any students and never used the teachers outside of their paralogues. All my students were level 38-42 in the final battle (Flayn was maybe 33)

This is what I'm finding about 50 hours in, nearing the end, Hard mode GD.

Lysithea is a monster, as has been stated numerous times in this thread. 

Claude hasn't had a problem one-shotting almost anything since level 1, and one he got his advanced class, goodness. And Hilda...

Idk if my Hilda (Fighter->Brigand->W. Rider->W. Lord) got lucky with growths or something but she's an absolutely insane shock trooper from go. She one-turns anything I've faced, and Canto lets her fly away immediately. She had some hit problems early/mid, but these were easily resolved with Smash. If I wanted to, I could Warp her in anywhere to two-turn any commander I've faced so far. My eyes pop a little bit when I see people rate her low

[dragonlordsd]

53 minutes ago, Heathcliff said:

This is what I'm finding about 50 hours in, nearing the end, Hard mode GD.

Lysithea is a monster, as has been stated numerous times in this thread. 

Claude hasn't had a problem one-shotting almost anything since level 1, and one he got his advanced class, goodness. And Hilda...

Idk if my Hilda (Fighter->Brigand->W. Rider->W. Lord) got lucky with growths or something but she's an absolutely insane shock trooper from go. She one-turns anything I've faced, and Canto lets her fly away immediately. She had some hit problems early/mid, but these were easily resolved with Smash. If I wanted to, I could Warp her in anywhere to two-turn any commander I've faced so far. My eyes pop a little bit when I see people rate her low

I haven't tried out Hilda yet, but I agree with you. I think I said this previously, but on paper she looks really good.

Rating non-mages is really tough for obvious reasons, but so far, to me, it looks like Leonie, Felix, Shamir, and Hilda lead the pack for non-lord, non-mage units. 

[Garlyle]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

The problem is, Raphael is prone to getting doubled if he's not using gauntlets (and he's not nearly sturdy enough to make up for this), and if he IS, he has to deal with gauntlets being so weak, which hinders his ability to kill things. These problems combined form a Morton's Fork where I struggle to find a role for him, because Hilda, Leonie and Byleth are infinitely more reliable than he is on offense and defense.

Hmmm, well that's odd. When it comes to HP, Strength and Defense, Raphael has one of the highest bases and growth rates, making him essentially tailored to be an armored knight. To put some numbers on the table, with the Fortress Knight bonuses he has 95% Hp, 60% Strength and 60% Defense growths, making it really difficult for him to get screwed in his training. Speed is really not his thing, and that's why gauntlets are his preferred choice of weapons for a long time, which he might switch to axes once he can one-shot his enemies with it. I'm really not sure what went wrong with your Raphael, but he shouldn't be in this problem unless he was sitting on the bench for way too long. It's relatively easy to get Steel Gauntlets+ for him, and weapon weight should not be a concern when he just doubles his enemy to death.

Now that I think about it, before reaching Fortress Knight, he could be a Brigand. The growths go into the strength instead of defense, and upon mastering it he can gain Death Blow, an ability that combines pretty nicely with gauntlets. I'm not sure what Intermediate class I picked for him, but I'm going to check it later if you are still interested.

[dragonlordsd]

1 minute ago, Garlyle said:

Hmmm, well that's odd. When it comes to HP, Strength and Defense, Raphael has one of the highest bases and growth rates, making him essentially tailored to be an armored knight. To put some numbers on the table, with the Fortress Knight bonuses he has 95% Hp, 60% Strength and 60% Defense growths, making it really difficult for him to get screwed in his training. Speed is really not his thing, and that's why gauntlets are his preferred choice of weapons for a long time, which he might switch to axes once he can one-shot his enemies with it. I'm really not sure what went wrong with your Raphael, but he shouldn't be in this problem unless he was sitting on the bench for way too long. It's relatively easy to get Steel Gauntlets+ for him, and weapon weight should not be a concern when he just doubles his enemy to death.

Now that I think about it, before reaching Fortress Knight, he could be a Brigand. The growths go into the strength instead of defense, and upon mastering it he can gain Death Blow, an ability that combines pretty nicely with gauntlets. I'm not sure what Intermediate class I picked for him, but I'm going to check it later if you are still interested.

Don't forget about the weight -x skills. Those make a HUGE difference. Heavy armor C gives you weight -3, heavy armor A gives you weight -5. Fortress Knight also gives you weight -5, and that DOES stack. So, if you give Raphael both weight -3 and weight -5, as a fortress knight, he's got what amounts to +13 speed (depending on the weapon).

I realized this when I made Edelgard a fortress knight. She had a speed of 9, but got doubles regularly, and it's because of weapon weight.

[Shadow Mir]

8 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Hmmm, well that's odd. When it comes to HP, Strength and Defense, Raphael has one of the highest bases and growth rates, making him essentially tailored to be an armored knight. To put some numbers on the table, with the Fortress Knight bonuses he has 95% Hp, 60% Strength and 60% Defense growths, making it really difficult for him to get screwed in his training. Speed is really not his thing, and that's why gauntlets are his preferred choice of weapons for a long time, which he might switch to axes once he can one-shot his enemies with it. I'm really not sure what went wrong with your Raphael, but he shouldn't be in this problem unless he was sitting on the bench for way too long. It's relatively easy to get Steel Gauntlets+ for him, and weapon weight should not be a concern when he just doubles his enemy to death.

Now that I think about it, before reaching Fortress Knight, he could be a Brigand. The growths go into the strength instead of defense, and upon mastering it he can gain Death Blow, an ability that combines pretty nicely with gauntlets. I'm not sure what Intermediate class I picked for him, but I'm going to check it later if you are still interested.

I'm still in the early portion of the game. And with Raphael already struggling to prove himself relative to those other three I mentioned earlier, that's NOT giving me any hope that he's salvageable. . . in fact, it's telling me that he's only going to drag me down once the going really gets tough.

[Technoweirdo]

57 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Don't forget about the weight -x skills. Those make a HUGE difference. Heavy armor C gives you weight -3, heavy armor A gives you weight -5. Fortress Knight also gives you weight -5, and that DOES stack. So, if you give Raphael both weight -3 and weight -5, as a fortress knight, he's got what amounts to +13 speed (depending on the weapon).

I realized this when I made Edelgard a fortress knight. She had a speed of 9, but got doubles regularly, and it's because of weapon weight.

Two things:
1. Having had Hilda reach A+ Armor, I can safely say you can't combine Weight -3 and Weight -5 because Weight -5 replaces Weight -3. ._.
2. While Fortress Knight's innate Weight -5 sounds nice (and can stack with a personal Weight -5), you have to remember the Fortress Knight eats a -6 Spd stat penalty just for being in the class; the skill's not there to make you faster, but to make you not any slower. Just re-classing out of Fortress Knight to Wyvern Rider gives me +9 Spd. The Fortress Knight's Spd penalties are that great. >_>

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I'm still in the early portion of the game. And with Raphael already struggling to prove himself relative to those other three I mentioned earlier, that's NOT giving me any hope that he's salvageable. . . in fact, it's telling me that he's only going to drag me down once the going really gets tough.

Everybody's a growth unit in this game. Everyone can get good or shit luck.
My Lysithea's Spd growths were so bad, Raphael out-sped her. lol

But, er, anyways, at least in my experience, he's fine (as is my Spd-screwed Lysithea).
Got the strength growths for punching things, axe proficiency to get into classes that let him punch harder.
Promotions can help salvage Spd. Enemies (foolishly) switching to Steel pretty early helps too.
Heck, the switch to Steel helps him out a lot more than other units because other units could already double enemies but have issues tanking.
By the time you start seeing Silver, he should be at or close to reaching War Master and can focus on bulking up.

[Flere210]

Fortress knight is a joke. It's crystal clear from the datamine that thy were supposed to have wary fighter, their speed was lowered this much because of that, bu then they decided againist it. I just can't justify a character in fortress unless they really like pavise. The weight reduction is nice but it does not rise your AS above your absymal speed. Quick riposte not being in an armor class is a meme.

[Vorena]

I find the movement more of a hindrance than speed. A speedy unit at say 50%  to 55% speed suffering a -10% speed is not a big deal. Gaining 30 hp, 10 str, and 15 def can bring a 35-40% str unit to good combat. Bernadetta and ashe feel like they could run a heavy armor build.

[dragonlordsd]

1 hour ago, Technoweirdo said:

Two things:
1. Having had Hilda reach A+ Armor, I can safely say you can't combine Weight -3 and Weight -5 because Weight -5 replaces Weight -3. ._.
2. While Fortress Knight's innate Weight -5 sounds nice (and can stack with a personal Weight -5), you have to remember the Fortress Knight eats a -6 Spd stat penalty just for being in the class; the skill's not there to make you faster, but to make you not any slower. Just re-classing out of Fortress Knight to Wyvern Rider gives me +9 Spd. The Fortress Knight's Spd penalties are that great. >_>

Lol, you're right, the class and personal stack, two personals don't.

My point wasn't that fortress knight is a good choice for speed, I was just explaining @Garlyle 's point.

@Shadow Mir 's Raphael isn't necessarily any different, it's just that strategic skills/classes can give you better results. There are more factors now for doubling than pure speed in awakening or fates.

Edited August 6, 2019 by dragonlordsd

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Having finally finished the pre-time skip, I could rank my students on their performance while they're still fresh in my memory. Playthrough is Hard/Classic with no divine pulse allowed.

1. Hilda: Insane strength and speed stats and making her a wyvern rider patched up her iffy defense. She won every arena tournament except the black magic one despite e ranks in everything that wasn't an axe. And her personal skill paired well with Raphael's gauntlets. She even got in some one hit kills before Freikugel and made the hand axe seem like a decent weapon.
2. Lysithea: Near constant one hit kills, but misses the top spot due to the 4 movement lock and getting one rounded in return by many things. She also picks up warp which I made one good use of despite it's pitiful range. I feel like her strongest plays required Dance/Stride support
3. Marianne: Early game physic and silence were often key to strategies where I send one guy to work on a part of a map. Her reason magic also ended up pretty powerful too. She was very frail but the game decided level 20 classes should have no less than 12 defense so she survived hits well enough
4. Raphael: His stats were honestly very bad, but gauntlets are just so good on somebody with this much attack. Hilda's personal skill and Ignatz' break shot gave him a lot of damage potential. And the healing focus combat art helped him do his thing without healer support.
5. Leonie: At first she was very powerful by being the only one except byleth capable of doubling. But the paladin classline didn't do her any favors besides pick up her failing strength stat. 
6. Ignatz: The kid had nothing to do besides chip damage until he picked up Break Shot and seal attack to defang Beasts. He and Raph made quite the team and archers are just so good in this game. Ward arrow is another great combat art whose usefulness is overshadowwed by Marianne's earlier access to Silence. 
7. Claude: Hate to say it, but Claude started out unremarkable and that never changed. His combat arts were unimpressive compared to Ignatz. His speed was as low as the mages. I don't know what his crest does since it never activated. I also noticed too late he had a unique Lord class, so I was trying to unlock and max that out when he could have been excelling as the archer class. Toward the end he began landing some crits, which was pretty unique, but not something I could rely on him for. His post-time skip class seems pretty busted though, so I expect him to overcome the mediocre stats.
8. Flayn: You can never have enough healers, but Rescue's range is pretty mediocre and I only used it for exp and to keep Lysithea close to the action. She got Fortify just before the time skip so while it's incredible, I couldn't use it much. Good at what she does, but fulfilled no niche and had the lowest health of the mages leading to a salty reset.
9. Lorenz: Every time I looked at this guy's stats I found them to be almost meticuously even with no strength or weakness. It's true even now as I glance at my roster. I let him keep the thrysius relic from his paralogue, but even then he was sometimes just doing chip damage with an archer's range. Magic is great in this game with a range boost but he really came into his own when I made him a dancer. But since anybody could be a dancer I won't bump up his rating just for that or for the thrysius relic. If I did bump up his rating for those things he'd be 5th place, easy.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Glennstavos

[ra2bk]

2 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

1. Leonie: At first she was very powerful by being the only one except byleth capable of doubling. But the paladin classline didn't do her any favors besides pick up her failing strength stat. 

I think Leonie is best as an Assassin. She has top tier dex and speed with above average luck. Training swords is a bit annoying, but teacher proficiency helps that a bit. If you get her early enough, it's no big deal at all. (Bias caveat, mine passed with a C instead of a B in swords). You don't even really give up many base stats, pretty much just calvary movement (+Canto) and 1 str in exchange for Lethality and Assasinate and absurd speed. Try to get the Riding 'C' ability +4 Dex if you can fit it in, that comes in handy as an assassin. Give the March ring, also, if need be.

 

So I went Riding, Lance and Bow to C for Cavalier (all proficient, not hard), then pump everything into Swords for Assassin,

Edited August 6, 2019 by ra2bk

[freewaffles]

Lysithea's access to Luna, Dark Spikes, Hades, and Seraphim are incredible, but there are two big items that she's missing that keep her out of A+ tier for me. 

(1) She doesn't have Meteor or  Bolting.  Admittedly the only person in her house that get its it is Hilda who is far better served as a Wyvern.  So if you want it the ranged nuke, you have to either pull in Dorothea or Hanneman. 

(2) She doesn't get Dark Tomefaire without either being a Dark Knight or reaching S+ reason. Lysithea's crest and the slightly stronger spells (Hades is +2 vs. Agnea and +3 vs. Ragnarok) partially make up for the lack of tomefaire, but compare that to Lorenz who has both at Warlock.  

Hubert has the same two problems, but unlike Lysithea doesn't have the spell list or the crest to make up for it.  The lack of Dark Tomefaire is why Warlock > Dark Bishop for all the male mages except Hubert.  Getting Fiendish Blow from mastering mage is quick enough already.  It's also why I Gremory is a bit overhyped.  The double usage is nice, but until you have Black Tomefaire , you're trading 3 magic for 1 dex, 2 cha, and 1 mov by moving out of Warlock.  Conversely, you could take Dorothea and Marianne from Warlock to Mortal Savant, which trades 1 Mag and 2 Res for 2 Def and 2 mov.

 

My mage rankings:

Top: Lysithea, Dorothea

Very good: Lorenz (Ragnarok + Agnea's Arrow is incredible, Saggitae is a really good mid-level spell, and he's got good bulk + skills for Dark Knight.  Plus you want the paralogue for the relic no matter what)

Useful:  Marianne (decent spell list because Fibulvetr and Aura have bonus crit), Hubert (good stats and Dark Spikes), Hanneman (Dorothea's spell list, but much slower and comes later),

More useful as Dancers/Healers: Annette, Mercedes, Flayn, Linhardt

Edited August 6, 2019 by freewaffles

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, ra2bk said:

You don't even really give up many base stats, pretty much just calvary movement (+Canto) and 1 str in exchange for Lethality and Assasinate and absurd speed. 

I fail to see why you're making a big deal out of Lethality and Assassinate, because they're both worthless, as are instant kills in most games, really.

[GulSki]

For me Casper ended up insane with 40+ strength 30+ speed and 70 health. Once I started using gauntlets on him he was easily killing things in 2 hits before the enemy went. With his health I could see getting him vantage so that any time Ben is at 35 health or so he kills once attacked. 

I also found lysethia Petra Bernie, and dorthea to be really strong.

[freewaffles]

1 hour ago, ra2bk said:

I think Leonie is best as an Assassin. She has top tier dex and speed with above average luck. Training swords is a bit annoying, but teacher proficiency helps that a bit. If you get her early enough, it's no big deal at all. (Bias caveat, mine passed with a C instead of a B in swords). You don't even really give up many base stats, pretty much just calvary movement (+Canto) and 1 str in exchange for Lethality and Assasinate and absurd speed. Try to get the Riding 'C' ability +4 Dex if you can fit it in, that comes in handy as an assassin. Give the March ring, also, if need be.

 

So I went Riding, Lance and Bow to C for Cavalier (all proficient, not hard), then pump everything into Swords for Assassin,

Tempest Lance is significantly better than Wrath Strike (3 more additional might in addition to lances being stronger than swords and usable with Javelins) and Paladin gets to use it with Lancefaire.  Besides, by the time you're anywhere close to Lethality/Assassinate, Leonie should already be a Bow Knight with Bowfaire and +2 Range.

[IzzyFresh]

On 7/31/2019 at 2:11 PM, 0 Def Cleric said:

She's probably the best candidate for Thyrsus. And really, just give her a Seraph Robe or two, depending on how she grows HP. Her speed plus the natural defense of the Warlock class (12) means that nothing reasonable in the game will kill her if she has ~40 hp, even on hard. That is, if you want to make her a frontliner; she's top tier even without that investment, but it's like a dracoshield-for-Miledy situation; do you want to make an already good unit better or not?

I'd argue Lorenz is the best candidate bfor Thyrsus. He is tanky and can actually take advantage of the free aegis and Pavise, while Lysithea just dies . He also is not a slouch in the damage department either.

[Sirius0411]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:53 PM, dragonlordsd said:

Yeah, I'm wondering a bit about the teachers.

For reference, this was Shamir when I got her at level 11:

HP: 34

Strength: 20

Mag: 8

Dex: 22

Speed: 17

Luck: 17

Def: 13

Res: 8

Cha: 13

That was about the same as Edelgard, who was level 18, just with less defense and more Dex. Unless her growth rates are absolute garbage or she gets totally RNG screwed, she'll lap every other student I have.

Are teachers/knights just objectively better than all other units, or is there some penalty for them?

Since everyone learns different spells, the spell casting tiering is pretty easy. Dorothea, for example, learns both Meteor and Agnaea's arrow. She's the only one to learn both. Only Hanneman can learn Meteor, and only Ignatz and Rhea can learn agnaea's arrow.

Lystheia in particular is interesting. Although she learns Hades and Abraxas (one of only two to learn it), she doesn't get meteor, bolting, mire, thoron, death, or bohr... basically all the things that would keep her out of harms way. All her spells are limited to 2 range 

I know this isn't the best argument, but the item acquired through Lorenz's paralogue can also be used by Lysithea which patches this problem very well. Just sucks that you need to recruit 2 different people if you're not in GD.

[ck425]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:37 AM, Nankaina said:

Dorothea (BE): Begins with a promising start as a Spellsword, but Str growths would have to be lottery-winnings lucky to keep it beyond low levels. Ends up just being a support mage more than anything else, and there's already a support mage who blows her out of the water in the house by default.

Dorothea is atleast A rank, she's one of my best units. I think your using her wrong, she's a gremory in the making not a spellsword. Her STR may suck but her MAG growth is excellent. More importantly she learns thoron and physic early. 1-3 range attack with lots of uses and a long range heal. Add to that decent HP, DEX & SPD and she's a machine. Tad squishy sure, but not by mage standards.

Edit: I forgot she also gets Meteor. Super super useful.

Edited August 7, 2019 by ck425
Forgot meteor

[ck425]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:37 AM, Nankaina said:

Petra (BE): One of the better units straight out of the gate when recruited. Good list of proficiencies which line up well with her stats, and a terror to face in the mock battle if she's not on your team. She's a fast and nimble sword user who can hit decently hard to boot. Unfortunately, Blue Lions starts with the best unit for that description, so Petra suffers from second-best-syndrome.

Make her a wyvern with axe and bow skills and she kicks ass. Get her death blow first and you can have her zooming all over taking out threats singlehandedly. Close counter skill allows you to throw her at other flyers and they just die.