Salvaging underperforming units?

[EaterOfFarro]

Hey friends, just wondering if there are any late-game mechanics for units to catch up? My personal example is that I'm trying really hard to make Petra my dedicated Theif/Assassin, but at level 17 she has a whopping 14str and 15dex. She also only has 8 def so she gets hit by everything for massive damage because she can't dodge and doubles enemies for 7dmg per attack (for reference, my Bernadetta with similar dex growth rate has 27 dex at level 20).

 

Is it too late for poor Petra or is there something lategame that lets me farm levels or access to stat-boost items? Playing on Hard/Classic and I'm not struggling, I just want to diversify my army instead of throwing Byleth/Edel/Leonie into the fray and killing everything.

[Tenzen12]

1 hour ago, EaterOfFarro said:

Hey friends, just wondering if there are any late-game mechanics for units to catch up? My personal example is that I'm trying really hard to make Petra my dedicated Theif/Assassin, but at level 17 she has a whopping 14str and 15dex. She also only has 8 def so she gets hit by everything for massive damage because she can't dodge and doubles enemies for 7dmg per attack (for reference, my Bernadetta with similar dex growth rate has 27 dex at level 20).

 

Is it too late for poor Petra or is there something lategame that lets me farm levels or access to stat-boost items? Playing on Hard/Classic and I'm not struggling, I just want to diversify my army instead of throwing Byleth/Edel/Leonie into the fray and killing everything.

You can make her dancer 

[Rezzy]

There's a paralogue for Manuela and Hannamann where you can get an accessory that doubled experience gain.  (At least I got one, not sure if it's a random drop or always there.)  It won't do much to help RNG, but it can help you squeeze a few more levels and hopefully make up for it.

I've been getting some random stat boosters from gardening, but not reliably enough to have it really be a viable method.

[Nanima]

I made the experience with poor Ashe, who had a staggering 9 Str at level 17, which is when I finally dropped him in favor of making Leonie my new archer. Would be curious to know some workarounds too.

[Humanoid]

I wonder when it's the right time to give up on someone. At level 8, Raphael has yet to gain a single point of def, being stuck on his base of 7, and to add insult to injury has only gained two points of strength. I know it's only chapter 4 but I'm seriously thinking of making recruiting Caspar my number one priority - having been working on Ingrid up to now.

I'd love an optional setting to just have deterministic growths like FEH.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Humanoid

[Jayvee94]

20 hours ago, Nanima said:

I made the experience with poor Ashe, who had a staggering 9 Str at level 17, which is when I finally dropped him in favor of making Leonie my new archer. Would be curious to know some workarounds too.

Wait.....what class is he again?

Edit: Oh I see. Ashe's strength should jump to 18 when he changes class to Sniper

Edited August 1, 2019 by Jayvee94

[Nanima]

50 minutes ago, Jayvee94 said:

Wait.....what class is he again?

Edit: Oh I see. Ashe's strength should jump to 18 when he changes class to Sniper

Good to know, although not sure if it's worth it considering Leonie already has 10 more points than him and is only level 16, but I'll keep it in mind for the future.

[EaterOfFarro]

Hmm looking at the base stats of advanced classes, they are enough to give someone another chance. I've since promoted Petra to Assassin so she's at 17str now haha...

I'm still a bit sad since looking at her growth rates they're so good for Assassin but just got screwed over in classic FE fashion!

[redlight]

Bear in mind that certain characters have lower strength growths, meaning that they'd need to find classes that give them an additional growth to strength.

[Garlyle]

Only source of experience I found was going into battle. Try sending them out into a lower level battles and give them items that can boost their exp - leaving them close to their favourite professor will also give them an exp boost.

I generally like training my units in Fire Emblem, but some members are forever benched at this point, I am in Chapter 15. Earlier I couldn't do anything with my lance cav Lorenz, but after I class changed him into a dark mage, he's surprisingly good. Currently I'm struggling with Ingrid, but I haven't given up yet - she'll be a lance flier no matter what.

I'd say Petra is very good and worth the investment. It feels like she was born to be a Swordmaster, but now I'm testing how she works in the Mortal Savant class.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Garlyle

[DragonFlames]

I somehow managed to salvage Ingrid and Sylvain, both of whom started out to be the weakest of the Blue Lions. Now they have easily become two of the strongest.
I initially had Ingrid as a Mercenary, then switched her over to Pegasus Knight, where she became instantly better. Fast forward to Chapter 19 and she's a goddess as a Falcon Knight.
As for Sylvain, he was a Brigand, who was very weak and got doubled by everything. I changed him to Wyvern Rider (now Wyvern Lord) and now he destroys everything he comes across.

The weakest links in my group when it comes to combat right now are Byleth, Felix, and Cyril.
Don't make your units Swordmasters, kids. That +20% speed growth is NOT worth it. Felix got ruined by it (I should've stuck with Brawler on him), and it didn't salvage Byleth at all.

[dragonlordsd]

10 hours ago, EaterOfFarro said:

Hey friends, just wondering if there are any late-game mechanics for units to catch up? My personal example is that I'm trying really hard to make Petra my dedicated Theif/Assassin, but at level 17 she has a whopping 14str and 15dex. She also only has 8 def so she gets hit by everything for massive damage because she can't dodge and doubles enemies for 7dmg per attack (for reference, my Bernadetta with similar dex growth rate has 27 dex at level 20).

 

Is it too late for poor Petra or is there something lategame that lets me farm levels or access to stat-boost items? Playing on Hard/Classic and I'm not struggling, I just want to diversify my army instead of throwing Byleth/Edel/Leonie into the fray and killing everything.

Stat fixing items are periodically available through quests and green house. It'll mean using most of them up, but you can spam the relevant dracoshields and such to catch her back up.

[NegativeExponents-]

I made Petra into cavalier because that desperation looked appetizing and oh boy it better be worth it cuz those awful cavalry growth rates really got to her. If it wasn't for her good base stats I would have probably benched her by now. Hoping she'll turn out better once I promote her into a wyvern.

[dragonlordsd]

Strategically, I believe it's worth it to avoid certain classes due to their growth rates.

Instead, wait until you're, like, level 20, get the item that doubles class growth, go back to the class you want the skill from, and grind it out. Since there aren't progression trees any more, you can just skip cavalier or pegasus knight and go straight to paladin or falcon knight.

[Burklight]

I've been using the base stats on class changing to give growth screwed units a bump. On my first play through, for example, my Belyth only had 12 defense at level 30, so I put some effort into heavy armor and save abused promotions until I was able to make him a fortress knight for a 7 point defense bump. Making most of your mounted units holy knights fixes low resistance with minimal investment in faith is another good example. 

As far as getting levels for low leveled units, make the character you want to level an adjunct of someone who can solo clear a map and give them the exp gem.

[Errorik]

Not every unit should be good in combat. If your thief can get to chests in a reasonable amount of time and steal things, they're doing great. Having level discrepancies is a good thing. I don't need my warp/physic user to have anything besides decent MAG and skill levels. Their defense stat is irrelevant.

 

You can fix stats with certifications, but I wouldn't recommend it in most cases. It's not worth the effort. Some units you simply drop due to bad growths or not filling a need (I dropped Ashe since keys are cheap and I had a peg knight Ingrid/Shamir is great).

 

I'd argue mastering most classes is also unnecessary. There's a few amazing ones but most are meh compared to class changing to something better (I go Cav asap).

[Vyniea]

Reclassing can help a lot, it might necessitate some grinding of unusual weapons and stuff but it can be worth it. If you can afford getting some Heavy Armor on some characters, a reclass to Armor Knight gets them to 16 defense or something, no matter what.

 

My Lysithea had no Strength and it was a pain using Levin Sword with it as a result, so I reclassed her to Swordmaster and it gave her a massive 9 strength, now she sits at 17 and the sword doesn't kill her AS nearly as much.

[Nankaina]

12 hours ago, Nanima said:

I made the experience with poor Ashe, who had a staggering 9 Str at level 17

Oh goodness. Ashe was miserable for me at the beginning, but I insisted on working with him until he was decent. Now he's actually good, if you can believe it. Turns out Shamir straight up bodies him though, so... 

4 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I somehow managed to salvage Ingrid and Sylvain, both of whom started out to be the weakest of the Blue Lions. Now they have easily become two of the strongest.
...

The weakest links in my group when it comes to combat right now are Byleth, Felix, and Cyril.

I have so many questions. How is Felix not overpowered yet? He has the best crest of the bunch, incredible sword and bow skill, and the potential to be a magic user as well. He's literally broken in my playthrough and I just don't get how he could possibly not be disgustingly powerful anywhere. Speaking of disgustingly powerful, Cyril literally gets boosted growth rates he's actually legit broken. And he's good at riding, flying, and most physical weapons, meaning he can be virtually any class on horse- or dragonback. And then, I totally get Sylvain being the weakest of the Blue Lions, since he has to claw out a niche where Dimitri and Dedue are stiff competition either way. But Ingrid? She's boss from the get go. Just utilize her gambits.

[DragonFlames]

38 minutes ago, Nankaina said:

I have so many questions. How is Felix not overpowered yet? He has the best crest of the bunch, incredible sword and bow skill, and the potential to be a magic user as well. He's literally broken in my playthrough and I just don't get how he could possibly not be disgustingly powerful anywhere. Speaking of disgustingly powerful, Cyril literally gets boosted growth rates he's actually legit broken. And he's good at riding, flying, and most physical weapons, meaning he can be virtually any class on horse- or dragonback. And then, I totally get Sylvain being the weakest of the Blue Lions, since he has to claw out a niche where Dimitri and Dedue are stiff competition either way. But Ingrid? She's boss from the get go. Just utilize her gambits.

Felix was overpowered. Until the time skip happened. He fell off hard towards the end, getting killed in only a few hits. Granted, most enemies he touched died, but he himself dies quite easily, especially when compared to Wyvern!Sylvain, Falcon!Ingrid, and Dimitri.
Cyril is not broken for me. He was a liability for most of the game, doing little to no damage and getting killed quite easily.
As for Ingrid, she starts out very weak, and she can't double much early on. Only after switching her to Pegasus Knight from Mercenary did she get going.

The units that started out good and remained good where Annette, Dimitri, Dedue, Mercedes (because Healer) and Ashe. The other Blue Lions struggled either in the beginning (Sylvain, Ingrid) or at the end (Felix).

[Kiran_]

19 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Felix was overpowered. Until the time skip happened. He fell off hard towards the end, getting killed in only a few hits. Granted, most enemies he touched died, but he himself dies quite easily, especially when compared to Wyvern!Sylvain, Falcon!Ingrid, and Dimitri.
Cyril is not broken for me. He was a liability for most of the game, doing little to no damage and getting killed quite easily.
As for Ingrid, she starts out very weak, and she can't double much early on. Only after switching her to Pegasus Knight from Mercenary did she get going.

The units that started out good and remained good where Annette, Dimitri, Dedue, Mercedes (because Healer) and Ashe. The other Blue Lions struggled either in the beginning (Sylvain, Ingrid) or at the end (Felix).

It's so weird how RNG changes stuff.

Felix was and is overpowered. He's always been slightly frail, but he always crits/survives. Sylvain was also always fine. Mercedes is surprisingly killer. Ingrid is stilllll struggling for me. As is Cyril (why doesn't he do any damage with Str. on par with other characters). 

Annette was better, she's falling out of favor. Dedue and and Ashe have been consistently good, but not great, but not bad. Ashe seems to be picking up with a few Str/Spd level ups.

Dimitri and Byleth don't count because they've always been beasts, so they just support my weaker units all the time. Haha. Especially on maps where I have to split up my forces, Byleth goes one way, Dimitri the other.

On salvaging units, I found Advanced Classes did the trick. Dedue got 0 Spd level ups (Like he had 4 Spd at level 20), and then I made him a Paladin and BAM, he had like 14 speed. 

Edited August 1, 2019 by Kiran_

[DragonFlames]

24 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

It's so weird how RNG changes stuff.

Felix was and is overpowered. He's always been slightly frail, but he always crits/survives. Sylvain was also always fine. Mercedes is surprisingly killer. Ingrid is stilllll struggling for me. As is Cyril (why doesn't he do any damage with Str. on par with other characters). 

Annette was better, she's falling out of favor. Dedue and and Ashe have been consistently good, but not great, but not bad. Ashe seems to be picking up with a few Str/Spd level ups.

Dimitri and Byleth don't count because they've always been beasts, so they just support my weaker units all the time. Haha. Especially on maps where I have to split up my forces, Byleth goes one way, Dimitri the other.

On salvaging units, I found Advanced Classes did the trick. Dedue got 0 Spd level ups (Like he had 4 Spd at level 20), and then I made him a Paladin and BAM, he had like 14 speed. 

The RNG is a wicked mistress for sure.
Ashe turned from okay to a god for me once he became a Sniper and only became more god-like once I slapped Bow Knight on him.
Maybe I should have stuck with the Grappler line on Felix. I eventually switched him to Swordmaster to match his character, but I feel like that wasn't a very good decision in retrospect.
Byleth was speed screwed for a while. He only really came back towards the end. Dimitri was an unstoppable monster for the entire game and the only thing that kept Annette from being the same way was her low speed growth catching up with her, along with the fact that her physical defense... isn't the greatest.

[IzzyFresh]

Class bonuses usually keep them competitive. If they really fall behind just set them as an adjutant.

[Errorik]

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

The RNG is a wicked mistress for sure.
Ashe turned from okay to a god for me once he became a Sniper and only became more god-like once I slapped Bow Knight on him.
Maybe I should have stuck with the Grappler line on Felix. I eventually switched him to Swordmaster to match his character, but I feel like that wasn't a very good decision in retrospect.
Byleth was speed screwed for a while. He only really came back towards the end. Dimitri was an unstoppable monster for the entire game and the only thing that kept Annette from being the same way was her low speed growth catching up with her, along with the fact that her physical defense... isn't the greatest.

Annette is always viable. Rally spd/str ez S tier.

[Burklight]

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Felix was overpowered. Until the time skip happened. He fell off hard towards the end, getting killed in only a few hits. Granted, most enemies he touched died, but he himself dies quite easily, especially when compared to Wyvern!Sylvain, Falcon!Ingrid, and Dimitri.
Cyril is not broken for me. He was a liability for most of the game, doing little to no damage and getting killed quite easily.
As for Ingrid, she starts out very weak, and she can't double much early on. Only after switching her to Pegasus Knight from Mercenary did she get going.

The units that started out good and remained good where Annette, Dimitri, Dedue, Mercedes (because Healer) and Ashe. The other Blue Lions struggled either in the beginning (Sylvain, Ingrid) or at the end (Felix).

Did you get the idgaf facetank everything shield Aegis Shield for Felix? Between the hard defense and the abilities it gives, it makes his durability on par or better than Dimitri's.

[Kiran_]

1 hour ago, DragonFlames said:

The RNG is a wicked mistress for sure.
Ashe turned from okay to a god for me once he became a Sniper and only became more god-like once I slapped Bow Knight on him.
Maybe I should have stuck with the Grappler line on Felix. I eventually switched him to Swordmaster to match his character, but I feel like that wasn't a very good decision in retrospect.
Byleth was speed screwed for a while. He only really came back towards the end. Dimitri was an unstoppable monster for the entire game and the only thing that kept Annette from being the same way was her low speed growth catching up with her, along with the fact that her physical defense... isn't the greatest.

Ohhh, I made Felix a Mortal Savant. His magic is KILLER, like I just Thoron/Levin Sword everything.

Byleth for me is defense screwed. His speed is great, and his HP is high enough that his low defense isn't a true burden, but I can't just like leave him in the frontlines or he'll barely scrape by. Poor Annette. Her speed is what's killing me now. Gotta get her Darting Blow or something.