Students/my playthrough BE support

[Zoderos]

31 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Finally got to beat the Death Knight with a critical hit. At first it was only 2% crit rate, but after two resets it went to 10%? No clue who gave the crit boost, also my accuracy was almost 80%. Really weird. Didn't use any gambit before the Grounder with Steel Sword+.

Should I use the seal right away? Or wait for a more advanced class? I believe I need a second dark seal otherwise?

Wanted to recruit Ashe before this chapter to save the keys for money, but failed.

Recruit only Lys, who didn't reached A times in time. Sylvain and Lorenz. Last had poor stats, but received a perfect level up last chapter. Any other archer I can get? Dorothea and her are just chipping, both lv2 while the rest is 8~9. Edelgard and Byleth promoted after this chapter. 

 

You need two seals. One for dark mage and one for dark bishop. You can't promote a unit to dark bishop if he hasn't unlocked the dark mage class before.

Best archer in my opinion if we are excluding Claude is definitely Leonie. She turned out better than Bernadetta and Ignatz in both my playthroughs. She is very easy to promote to Bow Knight(bows, lances and ridings are her strengths) and get that sweet 1 mile range too. In short, that's the only archer you need.

[Vorena]

I am late to the party, but Bernadetta to me personally is bad, but usable. Her defenses and hp are horrendous. I am not sure how completely accurate the rate are, but exp seems to agree. Her bulk is atrocious. 35%/20%/30% for hp/def/res. 35%/50% str/speed. She gets enough speed usually to double things, but it can be iffy and lackluster. I am not sure how evasion works out, but her evasion is nothing spectacular to rely upon to throw into the enemy team and just murder things. She's a usable nuking unit player phase for utility since she can hit super far as a bowknight with combat skills (7 range is silly) and you can pick targets to get the doubling on with which you can kill.

I'd really say use a bow user over some other slot than her after using her on my current play-through. 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Vorena

[SSJDennis]

I've had mixed experiences with Bernie. But she isn't an amazing unit from what I have seen. I do think she has potential, but most likely best to recruit her later in the game, when flier appear and she gets an easier time killing things. No clue what her Crest skill % is, but only seen it twice.

Leonie not better suited to use a lance? Not looking forward to train up a weapon skill mid-game, how bad is Ignatz?

[Shadow Mir]

Is it just me, or is Lorenz bad? Because I have better luck with Hilda, Leonie or Byleth for choking points and general frontline business (because they aren't getting doubled nearly as often), and he can't compete with Lysithea or Marianne on the magic side. Or am I missing something here?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Zoderos]

3 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

I've had mixed experiences with Bernie. But she isn't an amazing unit from what I have seen. I do think she has potential, but most likely best to recruit her later in the game, when flier appear and she gets an easier time killing things. No clue what her Crest skill % is, but only seen it twice.

Leonie not better suited to use a lance? Not looking forward to train up a weapon skill mid-game, how bad is Ignatz?

Archery is her one true calling and it's also her canon class if you pay attention to her support convos, but you can obviously make her into anything you want. Ignatz isn't bad, he's just worse than Leonie. He works fine as an archer if you need one and has a decent personal ability for archery.

7 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Is it just me, or is Lorenz bad? Because I have better luck with Hilda, Leonie or Byleth for choking points and general frontline business (because they aren't getting doubled nearly as often), and he can't compete with Lysithea or Marianne on the magic side. Or am I missing something here?

I made my Lorenz a Dark Knight(dark mage->dark bishop->dark knight) and he was pretty good. Bulky enough to withstand quite a bit of punishment and decent mag/spd to ORKO the majority of enemies and replenish his hp with lifetaker. Maybe mine got RNG blessed tho, because his def stat was very respectable, like 30 or something by endgame if I remember correctly.

[SSJDennis]

On 8/2/2019 at 12:09 AM, Spectrum said:

I would suggest getting Ingrid. She's really amazing as a Falcon Knight and would certainly help in BE route. I also noticed you lack an Archer, so make sure you don't bench Bernadetta; she's really good.

Ingrid came in with massive speed. Almost as speedy as Petra, but with more RES.

On 8/2/2019 at 12:39 AM, timon said:

Linhardt being a better mage than Hubert, that's a first, spooky boi is probably the best nuke in the game apart from Lysithea.

Hubert made up for his slow start and now on pair with Lysithea. Both lack a good healing spell though.

On 8/2/2019 at 12:45 PM, BaKaDaNaa said:

I mean, he's planning to get Leonie, the best (non Claude) archer in the game, arguably.

Leonie as an archer rocks. Didn't know her base level was this high, thought she would start with E ranks.

On 8/2/2019 at 1:02 PM, Spectrum said:

My Ingrid was extremely broken as a Falcon Knight. I could send her to mages with a spear and she would double/critic and take 0-3 damage.

My bad, I didn't notice Leonie. Yeah, she's better.

Both great assets.

 

Linhardt is falling behind quickly. With Warp having only a single use, he is actually a worse Mercedes. Very good early game though, maybe I should've kept Dorothea. 

Sylvain also becoming worse like every chapter. Maybe unlucky with his growths, but base Felix and Leonie blew him out of the water. 

Ferdinand is really good. Thinking he is massive RNG blessed. My Edelgard has still 11 speed, which is by far my slowest unit. She is currently a lord.

Will Warp ever come in handy with Linhardt? He has poor range.

Anyone else disappointed by the base stats of Flayn and Shamir?

[Errorik]

9 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Ingrid came in with massive speed. Almost as speedy as Petra, but with more RES.

Hubert made up for his slow start and now on pair with Lysithea. Both lack a good healing spell though.

Leonie as an archer rocks. Didn't know her base level was this high, thought she would start with E ranks.

Both great assets.

 

Linhardt is falling behind quickly. With Warp having only a single use, he is actually a worse Mercedes. Very good early game though, maybe I should've kept Dorothea. 

Sylvain also becoming worse like every chapter. Maybe unlucky with his growths, but base Felix and Leonie blew him out of the water. 

Ferdinand is really good. Thinking he is massive RNG blessed. My Edelgard has still 11 speed, which is by far my slowest unit. She is currently a lord.

Will Warp ever come in handy with Linhardt? He has poor range.

Anyone else disappointed by the base stats of Flayn and Shamir?

Warp makes him top tier. My long chapters are ~6 turns due to warp. That's including stalling to grab chests out of curiosity.  Linhardt gets lots of xp from spamming physic and warp, which don't depend on his movement. Physic and warp are the best spells in the game imo, with thoron tailing behind a bit. Easy xp, helps movement issues, and enables even more busted fliers/Cavs charging around the map killing everything.

[timon]

18 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Linhardt is falling behind quickly. With Warp having only a single use, he is actually a worse Mercedes. Very good early game though, maybe I should've kept Dorothea. 

Sylvain also becoming worse like every chapter. Maybe unlucky with his growths, but base Felix and Leonie blew him out of the water. 

Ferdinand is really good. Thinking he is massive RNG blessed. My Edelgard has still 11 speed, which is by far my slowest unit. She is currently a lord.

Will Warp ever come in handy with Linhardt? He has poor range.

Anyone else disappointed by the base stats of Flayn and Shamir?

Linhardt is, in my experience, an underwhelming mage, especially in the Black Eagles where you have so many options. On the flip side mine turned out quite tanky, useful to lure enemies in, and a useful healer (his crest activates a lot for me, like every other healing). Still, even Hanneman makes a better mage (no bias).

Sylvain suffers from lack of a good class imo, unless you get him early and go Wyvern? I guess Dark Knight is a perfect fit, but in the meantime Cavalier really slows him down (literally).

Lastly, on Shamir, I don't know if I got blessed or what, but she's amazing. I probably should add that I recruited her literally the first time I met her at the monastery (I had a meal with her and probably a slightly overleveled Byleth), and my god a sniper that early is broken. From that on I just ended up using her, and she turned out amazing (quite slow, but Dexterity through the roof so she doesn't miss even at 5 range and quite good strength).

[freewaffles]

 

Quote

Sylvain suffers from lack of a good class imo, unless you get him early and go Wyvern? I guess Dark Knight is a perfect fit, but in the meantime Cavalier really slows him down (literally).

If you get him late, Paladin isn't a terrible class for him to stay in.  It loses 2 speed, 1 Dex, and the +2 bowrange compared to Bow Knight, but allows him to take advantage of Lancefaire for Lance of Ruin and Ruined Sky.  Wyvern is still the best choice if you can get it though.  Keep him next to Hilda if you can so he's getting +5 damage (ditto Leonie and Seteth).

 

On 8/4/2019 at 7:18 AM, Shadow Mir said:

Is it just me, or is Lorenz bad? Because I have better luck with Hilda, Leonie or Byleth for choking points and general frontline business (because they aren't getting doubled nearly as often), and he can't compete with Lysithea or Marianne on the magic side. Or am I missing something here?

 

Lorenz's is a bulky Dorothea with no Meteor.  He's got a great spellbook with Saggitea, Ragnarok, and Agnea's Arrow. The earlier access to Tomefaire (at Warlock) brings his magic (other than Dark Spikes v. calvary) in line with Lysinthea and Hubert until those two get to S+ Reason or Dark Knight.  Also, you want his paralogue for +2 magic range.

Edited August 7, 2019 by freewaffles

[Tribute]

On 8/4/2019 at 2:07 AM, SSJDennis said:

Finally got to beat the Death Knight with a critical hit. At first it was only 2% crit rate, but after two resets it went to 10%? No clue who gave the crit boost, also my accuracy was almost 80%. Really weird. Didn't use any gambit before the Grounder with Steel Sword+.

Should I use the seal right away? Or wait for a more advanced class? I believe I need a second dark seal otherwise?

Wanted to recruit Ashe before this chapter to save the keys for money, but failed.

Recruit only Lys, who didn't reached A times in time. Sylvain and Lorenz. Last had poor stats, but received a perfect level up last chapter. Any other archer I can get? Dorothea and her are just chipping, both lv2 while the rest is 8~9. Edelgard and Byleth promoted after this chapter. 

 

Depending how you do your playthrough, you'll be gauranteed a shot at a second one for sure.

And maybe 3+.

I actually did my first playthrough blind and only got one because I didn't steal that first one, and Hubert as literally just a basic dark mage with no promotions was able to hold up his weight in damage. (albiet getting banged out on enemy phase if I wasn't careful). You should be fine to go dark mage now

Edited August 7, 2019 by Tribute

[De Geso]

I don't think any students in my class (Black Eagles, no other students recruited) besides Caspar are underperforming, and even he has moments when he shines. Ferdinand struggled at first but once he bought a horse that became nothing more than a bad memory.

Edited August 7, 2019 by De Geso

[Shadow Mir]

17 minutes ago, De Geso said:

I don't think any students in my class (Black Eagles, no other students recruited) besides Caspar are underperforming, and even he has moments when he shines. Ferdinand struggled at first but once he bought a horse that became nothing more than a bad memory.

What exactly do you mean by the bold? What about getting a horse made Ferdinand stop sucking?

Speaking of underperforming, I cannot rely on Raphael to do anything. At all. 

On 8/4/2019 at 6:03 AM, Vorena said:

I am late to the party, but Bernadetta to me personally is bad, but usable. Her defenses and hp are horrendous. I am not sure how completely accurate the rate are, but exp seems to agree. Her bulk is atrocious. 35%/20%/30% for hp/def/res. 35%/50% str/speed. She gets enough speed usually to double things, but it can be iffy and lackluster. I am not sure how evasion works out, but her evasion is nothing spectacular to rely upon to throw into the enemy team and just murder things. She's a usable nuking unit player phase for utility since she can hit super far as a bowknight with combat skills (7 range is silly) and you can pick targets to get the doubling on with which you can kill.

7 range is silly... That is, until you realize that your accuracy is gonna be shit because you take a 100 hit penalty if you attack from that far. Then it's useless.

[De Geso]

Just now, Shadow Mir said:

What exactly do you mean by the bold? What about getting a horse made Ferdinand stop sucking?

Having a mount usually (always) makes a unit's performance improve.

Edited August 7, 2019 by De Geso

[kremelover]

I would make Felix a dark mage and transition him into a mortal savant. Dark mage does not give charm growth, and Lindhart has low charm!

[flap]

Blue > Green > Yellow > Orange > Red

This a "naive" list I'm using, based mostly on growth. I say naive because:

For physical, it doesn't take into account a couple of things like gender-specific classes progression path, crests, natural abilities, skill affinities, base stats.
For magical, it doesn't take into account spell list, gender-specific classes progression path, crests, natural abilities, skill affinities, base stats.

T.ATK = SPD growth + STR growth for physical. SPD growth + MAG growth for magical
T.DEF = DEF growth + RES growth
T.Eff = T.ATK + T.DEF

Additionnal notes:

• Lysithea is given a boost in tier because of her insane offense
• Dedue is given a boost in tier because of his insane HP+STR+DEF
• Lorenz show up twice because he is very decent in physical and in magical.
• Cyril is given an unfair treatment, since aptitude isn't counted in this. IDC.

Edited August 7, 2019 by flap

[kremelover]

11 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

What exactly do you mean by the bold? What about getting a horse made Ferdinand stop sucking?

Speaking of underperforming, I cannot rely on Raphael to do anything. At all. 

7 range is silly... That is, until you realize that your accuracy is gonna be shit because you take a 100 hit penalty if you attack from that far. Then it's useless.

Atleast Bernie has really high dexterity!

[Shadow Mir]

1 minute ago, kremelover said:

Atleast Bernie has really high dexterity!

Which won't help if you attack from that far since each point of dexterity only gives 1 point of hit.

[Fabulously Olivier]

Black Eagles:

Petra is an absolute monster, whether you make her an assassin or a flier. She is so evasive and is a good off tank for those faster enemies that double almost everyone else.

Bernadetta should always be a staple of your BE team.

Linhardt is one of the best healers, since he has physic and warp in his kit.

Dorothea - Excellent reason magic kit (much better than Lysithea's 2 range only kit) including Thoron and Meteor. Also a great healer with Physic in her kit. Makes a great Dancer or Gremory.

Caspar - if you want something dead on player phase, Caspar makes it dead. Just be careful with his enemy phase.

Hubert if going Empire route. Replace with Lysithea if going Church route.

 

Golden Deer:

Leonie is like Bernadetta, but better. One of the best characters in the game. Also shares similar requirements with Ashe, who will give you a good fill in unit if you recruit him early enough to diversify his skill ranks.

Lysithea - Shares the same recruitment requirements as Annette, so you get two great mages for the price of one.

Edited August 7, 2019 by Etheus

[Null_error]

I feel like I’ve screwed my Leonie by making her a Pegasus Knight instead of focusing on Bow knight since I thought Ignatz would be a good bow user....I was very wrong about Ignatz and now most of my characters are level 20 and I dont know if I have enough time to switch course. Everyone says she is great but I just haven’t seen it yet.

[De Geso]

11 minutes ago, Null_error said:

I feel like I’ve screwed my Leonie by making her a Pegasus Knight instead of focusing on Bow knight since I thought Ignatz would be a good bow user....I was very wrong about Ignatz and now most of my characters are level 20 and I dont know if I have enough time to switch course. Everyone says she is great but I just haven’t seen it yet.

Sometimes you just get unlucky. Of course, you can use bows as a flier, can't you?

[freewaffles]

27 minutes ago, Null_error said:

I feel like I’ve screwed my Leonie by making her a Pegasus Knight instead of focusing on Bow knight since I thought Ignatz would be a good bow user....I was very wrong about Ignatz and now most of my characters are level 20 and I dont know if I have enough time to switch course. Everyone says she is great but I just haven’t seen it yet.

Leonie will be fine as a Falcon Knight or Wyvern Lord if that's the route you'd want to take her as both are very strong classes.  Wyvern has Axefaire instead of Lancefaire so it won't take advantage of Lance Jab, but it has +3 strength and axes hit harder than lances.  As a Falcon Knight, Leonie with a Killer Lance would be a crit machine, especially if you gave her a Crit Ring.

Most people suggest taking her to a Bowknight because (a) her skills are initially set up for that, (b) Close Counter makes bows good, and (c) Point-Blank Volley is a great Combat Art.

 

12 minutes ago, De Geso said:

Sometimes you just get unlucky. Of course, you can use bows as a flier, can't you?

Yes, he still could. He'd just lose the added range and Bowfaire.

Edited August 7, 2019 by freewaffles

[virtu333]

Leonie and Lysithea are probably the best non main characters in the game.

Lysithea because her beefy magic stat+warp allow her to do crazy things, and she gets great spells early, quickly. Suffers from classic mage issues, but she's pretty differentiated.

Leonie is a beast - her bases (9 atk, 9 spd, 7 def) and growths (40 str, 60 speed, 40 def) are basically min-maxxed for early game, along with her personal (+2 atk/+2 def) which is very easy to use early. She can quickly start doubling early, killing, and tanking early. Throw on her incredible proficiencies (bows, lances, riding) and she can zoom up to bow knight reqs while also grabbing good authority ranks.

Sylvain is also pretty good as a wyvern lord but weakness in bows in a game where bows are by far the best 1-2 range option hurts a bit.

Edited August 7, 2019 by virtu333

[Burklight]

1 hour ago, Null_error said:

I feel like I’ve screwed my Leonie by making her a Pegasus Knight instead of focusing on Bow knight since I thought Ignatz would be a good bow user....I was very wrong about Ignatz and now most of my characters are level 20 and I dont know if I have enough time to switch course. Everyone says she is great but I just haven’t seen it yet.

IMO  Falcon knight is better, at least first. The only real downside of bow knight is the class growths are absolutely garbage. Falcon knight growths are great. Also, Leonie's biggest weakness is her horrible resistance, which Falcoknight bases(14) somewhat fix. Just stay the course with Falcon knight, if you decide you don't like it, she'll be a better bow knight for waiting.

[IzzyFresh]

2 hours ago, virtu333 said:

Leonie and Lysithea are probably the best non main characters in the game.

Lysithea because her beefy magic stat+warp allow her to do crazy things, and she gets great spells early, quickly. Suffers from classic mage issues, but she's pretty differentiated.

Leonie is a beast - her bases (9 atk, 9 spd, 7 def) and growths (40 str, 60 speed, 40 def) are basically min-maxxed for early game, along with her personal (+2 atk/+2 def) which is very easy to use early. She can quickly start doubling early, killing, and tanking early. Throw on her incredible proficiencies (bows, lances, riding) and she can zoom up to bow knight reqs while also grabbing good authority ranks.

Sylvain is also pretty good as a wyvern lord but weakness in bows in a game where bows are by far the best 1-2 range option hurts a bit.

Enemies don't really take advantage of bows that often, it's not that big a deal. If you are really paranoid about it, dismounting is so broken in this game it's not an issue

[freewaffles]

26 minutes ago, IzzyFresh said:

Enemies don't really take advantage of bows that often, it's not that big a deal. If you are really paranoid about it, dismounting is so broken in this game it's not an issue

I've not dismounted the flyers, since their mounts only give positive bonuses.  But dismounting Paladins/BowKnights/DarkKnights to get +2 speed is awesome on bosses.