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Any Master classes worth getting? Most of my units are having an hard time getting to advanced already, like Felix, who has great stats but not the weapon ranks. Edelgard is on the same both. Even Sylvain, Petra, Ingrid and Ferdinand will need some grinding in bad classes to ever hoping to succeed a master exam. Why are axes so popular anyway...

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29 minutes ago, SSJDennis said:

Any Master classes worth getting? Most of my units are having an hard time getting to advanced already, like Felix, who has great stats but not the weapon ranks. Edelgard is on the same both. Even Sylvain, Petra, Ingrid and Ferdinand will need some grinding in bad classes to ever hoping to succeed a master exam. Why are axes so popular anyway...

My biggest advice here is just to take your chances. Save, try even a 30% and maybe it works, if it doesn't reset and try next week (or just let it go if you don't care about losing a seal). It's unlikely that you'll ever hit 100% for a Master Class, especially if you messed around a bit and didn't take a "set path" from day one.

Also don't force Master Classes, some Advanced work just fine (eg. Swordmaster, but even Paladin I find is just straight up better than GK). The ones I'd suggest gunning for are Bow Knight and Wyvern Lord, those are definitely the most relevant as later on they make some maps a piece of cake, especially BK with their absurd range.
If you can manage, pick up at least  Dark/Holy Knight, as the more your team promotes the more your mages risk lagging behind with their crappy mov.

As for Edelgard, she breaks the game with her own classes, no need to worry about exams and skill levels.

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6 hours ago, timon said:

As for Edelgard, she breaks the game with her own classes, no need to worry about exams and skill levels.

Edelgard's exclusive class is pretty garbage, so you should still worry about her weapon ranks.

Her best class by far is Wyvern Lord, so better hope you were training flying.

Granted, the game is still completely beatable even if you don't plan things out and make suboptimal decisions, so there's really nothing wrong for you to just put Edelgard into her exclusive class and then call it a day. It just won't be the best option you could have picked.

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4 hours ago, Silly said:

Edelgard's exclusive class is pretty garbage, so you should still worry about her weapon ranks.

Uhm no it's not? Yes, Wyvern Lord is better, but Wyvern Lord is just better than everything else, it's not much of a comparison, make everyone a WL then.

Since that would be incredibly boring and defeat the purpose of the game, Armored Lord/Emperor are actually very good classes, incredible strength, HP and Def with good Res (and the skill that increases it) and enough speed to not get doubled by everything. The only thing you're really losing out on is Mov, but as I said, you can't make everyone a flyer.

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1 hour ago, timon said:

Uhm no it's not? Yes, Wyvern Lord is better, but Wyvern Lord is just better than everything else, it's not much of a comparison, make everyone a WL then.

Since that would be incredibly boring and defeat the purpose of the game, Armored Lord/Emperor are actually very good classes, incredible strength, HP and Def with good Res (and the skill that increases it) and enough speed to not get doubled by everything. The only thing you're really losing out on is Mov, but as I said, you can't make everyone a flyer.

It's literally a slightly better Fortress Knight, in a game where Fortress Knight is a terrible class. It has two really bad traits. One, it has 5 move at a time where the majority of your army should have 7-8 move. On every single map the class consistently falls behind and finds it hard to contribute unless you intentionally slow everyone else down to accommodate. Two, it's slow, and in this game if you don't double enemies you're going to find it hard to ORKO. Level 30 Edelgard has on average 19.6 speed as her exclusive class. That's slow enough that you won't be able to double medium speed enemies, and will only be able to double the slower ones with less than 16 AS (and that's assuming you don't weigh yourself down). On the other hand, Wyvern Lord Edelgard has on average 27.6 speed at level 30. That's a difference of EIGHT speed, and means you double enemies with 24 AS or less, which is a much wider range. You can maybe sneak in a one-shot on player phase with a very strong weapon and a combat art (for example, using Edelgard's prf), but that obviously isn't ideal when you could be ORKOing on both player phase and enemy phase with a regular weapon. Also I have no idea what you mean by "incredible strength" and "good res" when the class has a ZERO strength or resistance stat boost. (There's a skill that gives her +4 Res on waiting, but that means that she doesn't get player phase combat and that skill is a personal skill which is available on EVERY class.)

Edelgard's class is just not good. It's not even just outclasssed by Wyvern Lord, it's also outclassed by Great Knight. Compared to her exclusive class, Great Knight loses 3 HP, 1 Lck, and 2 Cha, which is perfectly acceptable considering Lck and Cha are probably the two worst stats, and in return gains 1 Str, 2 Mov, and canto. This is much better, as the class keeps the high defense of her exclusive class, but doesn't have movement that is awful. Also, Great Knight has the ability to trade 2 Def for 2 Spd by dismounting, in situations where it needs slightly more speed to meet a threshold, whereas her exclusive class must always deal with being slow.

Just because the class is exclusive doesn't make it good. You can use it, and it can contribute if you're willing to slow down and accommodate its low movement and other weaknesses. But the truth of the matter is that there are just much better options available.

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Have you considered not rushing? This game doesn't have a lot of maps with turn limit, a slow advance is usually the better way of playing, and a tank in that situation is much better.

On speed, don't forget you're picking up Weight-3 early on and -5 later, and even if it's not enough, being doubled for 4 damage is not a problem.

ORKO is easy once you get into Silver (and if you have her class you're probably in Silver territory), if it doesn't work then just use any combart art she gets, she even gets magic axe to pass through high Def. I find combat arts to just be straight up better than doubling anyways, you're trading 1 or 3 durability for a no counter attack kill, I'll take it any day. We swim in gold, durability is not an issue.

Again, Wyvern is better, but Wyvern is better than everything. I disagree that Great Knight is though (and it's way more difficult to access), you're rating Mov way too much in a game where you're never in a rush. And that wait Res skill is relevant when you want to lure in enemies.

Sure, you can run for the boss in every map if you really enjoy it, or you can play it safely, put Edelgard in range of a few enemies, bait them in, nuke them with your mages and move on, I don't see why we must put all this emphasis on Warp rush and flying to finish map on turn 1.

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1 hour ago, timon said:

Have you considered not rushing? This game doesn't have a lot of maps with turn limit, a slow advance is usually the better way of playing, and a tank in that situation is much better.

On speed, don't forget you're picking up Weight-3 early on and -5 later, and even if it's not enough, being doubled for 4 damage is not a problem.

ORKO is easy once you get into Silver (and if you have her class you're probably in Silver territory), if it doesn't work then just use any combart art she gets, she even gets magic axe to pass through high Def. I find combat arts to just be straight up better than doubling anyways, you're trading 1 or 3 durability for a no counter attack kill, I'll take it any day. We swim in gold, durability is not an issue.

Again, Wyvern is better, but Wyvern is better than everything. I disagree that Great Knight is though (and it's way more difficult to access), you're rating Mov way too much in a game where you're never in a rush. And that wait Res skill is relevant when you want to lure in enemies.

Sure, you can run for the boss in every map if you really enjoy it, or you can play it safely, put Edelgard in range of a few enemies, bait them in, nuke them with your mages and move on, I don't see why we must put all this emphasis on Warp rush and flying to finish map on turn 1.

Movement doesn't necessarily have to do with rushing - a unit with 8 movement can just be more useful in more areas of the map than a unit with 5. Even if you play slowly or only moderately efficiently, having high movement is better.

That being said, I think Edelgard's exclusive class is fine. It isn't god-tier or anything but it more than gets the job done (especially if your Lindhart has good enough magic to warp her somewhere that she can be effective quickly).

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1 hour ago, timon said:

Have you considered not rushing? This game doesn't have a lot of maps with turn limit, a slow advance is usually the better way of playing, and a tank in that situation is much better.

Now you're going to tell me that Armor Knights in GBA are high tier because "you can just play slow" and take 20 turns to clear every map when most maps are perfectly beatable in less than half that time with a normal pace of play.

Nobody mentioned anything about LTCing the maps. Even with casual, moderately efficient play the class is still bad.

The fact of the matter is that low movement has been crippling in every Fire Emblem game where high move units are good enough. Even if you're playing casually and not LTCing maps. When the rest of your team has +2/3 move on your armor and the ability to ORKO enemies, what generally happens is that your armor knight never gets to fight enemies because they all die before you can get there. In order to utilize her more than just a few combat steps in each map, what generally needs to happen is that you need to intentionally slow down your other units and prevent them from killing things, or you need to spend other resources on her in order to let her keep up with the team. Not to mention more movement just makes you more flexible overall.

1 hour ago, timon said:

ORKO is easy once you get into Silver (and if you have her class you're probably in Silver territory), if it doesn't work then just use any combart art she gets, she even gets magic axe to pass through high Def. I find combat arts to just be straight up better than doubling anyways, you're trading 1 or 3 durability for a no counter attack kill, I'll take it any day. We swim in gold, durability is not an issue.

Sure, you can run for the boss in every map if you really enjoy it, or you can play it safely, put Edelgard in range of a few enemies, bait them in, nuke them with your mages and move on, I don't see why we must put all this emphasis on Warp rush and flying to finish map on turn 1.

Silver weapons definitely do NOT get the ORKO on typical enemies without combat arts. The Amyr does, but that's also one of the best weapons in the game and you shouldn't be using up its durability frivolously on generics. And relying on combat arts to kill is suboptimal because you can only access them on player phase, whereas naturally doubling and killing enemies means that you ORKO on both player phase and enemy phase. A unit that can only ORKO with combat arts kills one unit on player phase. A unit that can ORKO naturally kills one unit on player phase and in most situations can kill up to 2-3 units on enemy phase.

Also the "put armor knight in range of a few enemies, bait them in, and then kill them on player phase" strategy is just... not great when you could have just put a unit in range that actually killed those enemies when they attacked you. Surely you can see that baiting a few enemies, NOT KILLING THEM, and then having to spend player phase actions to get rid of them is worse than putting a unit in range to bait a few enemies and having them kill themselves on enemy phase, letting you do whatever you want on player phase.

1 hour ago, timon said:

Again, Wyvern is better, but Wyvern is better than everything. I disagree that Great Knight is though (and it's way more difficult to access), you're rating Mov way too much in a game where you're never in a rush. And that wait Res skill is relevant when you want to lure in enemies.

Explain to me how +3 HP (as well as stats that don't matter) is better than 1 Str and 2 Mov, plus canto??? What kind of logic is that. Plus Great Knight also situationally has +2 speed.

Also Great Knight really isn't that hard to access when Edelgard has proficiency in two of the three requirements. Wyvern Lord is still accessible on units with zero proficiencies in any of the requirements (for example, Felix), so don't go telling me that Great Knight is impossible on a unit that is strong in both axes and armor.

The +res skill is a personal skill. It is available regardless of what class you pick and therefore irrelevant when comparing classes.

The fact of the matter is that Emperor is pretty much worse than both of the other axe using master classes (not counting War Master because of genderlock). It's pretty clear the Wyvern Lord is the better class, but Emperor also doesn't compare favorably to Great Knight either. And being the worst of all of the other axe options you have does not make for a relatively good class.

Edited by Silly
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We'll just have to agree to disagree then, but on this point you're just wrong:

16 minutes ago, Silly said:

Silver weapons definitely do NOT get the ORKO on typical enemies without combat arts

Yes they do, probably the won't anymore in Lunatic, but as of right now in Hard you can absolutely tear through most enemies with just basic silver, not even forged. Actually Edelgard herself even doubles a fair share of enemies with Silver Axe. And I haven't grinded btw, paralogues is the only extra I did. The game is just too easy right now to worry that much about optimization. When Lunatic is out then sure, we'll focus everyone on Axe and Flying and play boring emblem, but right now everything is kind of at the same level (except Fortress).

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11 minutes ago, timon said:

Yes they do, probably the won't anymore in Lunatic, but as of right now in Hard you can absolutely tear through most enemies with just basic silver, not even forged. Actually Edelgard herself even doubles a fair share of enemies with Silver Axe. And I haven't grinded btw, paralogues is the only extra I did. The game is just too easy right now to worry that much about optimization. When Lunatic is out then sure, we'll focus everyone on Axe and Flying and play boring emblem, but right now everything is kind of at the same level (except Fortress).

Edelgard has on average ~30 Str at level 30. With a Silver Axe+ she has 47 attack.

There are many, many enemies with more bulk than that. If you do not double you do not kill.

Saying that you reliably ORKO enemies with a silver weapon is just straight false.

Edited by Silly
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On 8/1/2019 at 5:50 PM, SSJDennis said:

Hi all,

Currently playing Black Eagles on Hard, but it gets harder and harder, mainly because I've spread my EXP too thin it seems...
So, thinking about a restart, just to feel a bit stronger.

Want to try to critical hit a certain enemy early in the game (for the Dark Seal) with Byleth, but a higher level and better class
would help. I was a myrmidon, which felt underwhelming. Also getting one shotted with everyone was very depressing. But
maybe this is how it is meant to be ?

Most of my party just reached Lv5 before this chapter (with the help of some boss grinding...), which is madness. Currently
recruiting units, which are like two or three levels higher, which might indicate that my level is too low. Also the suggested
chapter levels are way higher than what I currently am. All in all, a bit frustrating, I don't want to move like a turtle every map...

With the reset, I also want to prioritize my recruits from other houses. Right now I went for all the magic ones, just because
the "real" goals for them seemed unrealistic. Not sure how to raise skills like Charm. Any easy way? If not, then I need to
achieve a B-support with a lot of units, not that its hard to do, but after so many dinners and singing it gets boring.

Still, I want to recruit each and every possible student. Teachers are no priority to me, unless they are much stronger then any
student. Which seems unlikely to me.

Since I already have Edelgard and Byleth, which other 8 units should I prioritize over the others ? Main team seems to consist
of 10 units most of the time?

Was thinking:

1. Felix, good strength and speed growths. Main units lacking is physical attack.
2. Sylvain, same as above. Main cavalier/paladin with Ferdinand.
3. Ferdinand, see above.
4. Lysithea, amazing magic.
5. Linhardt, great early mage (early physic and wind) after a rough start. Gets Warp eventually.
6. Petra, swift and good strength.
7. Leonie, good personal and like Petra.
8. Mercedes, best healer I guess. Not sure if she can be more then that.
 

With those, I lose out on Hubert, which is never been really impressive thus far. Maybe he got RNG screwed early on?
Later on Hilda, Flayn and Shamir seem like useful units. But no clue when I get them. Bernadetta seems like the hidden gem
of this game, but not really sure if I should put any effort in her. Her crest ability seems useful.

As for now, I got a bit crazy on mages and recruited Annette, which is like a lesser version of Linhardt/Dorothea,
Mercedes (which is only good at healing?) and Lysithea. Offcourse I also got Sylvain for free (female MC).

Any units without a crest usable ? Any major unit I am forgetting? Should I get them all early on? Or spread EXP thicker and
recruit later, so that their auto level is higher ?

Thanks,

 

ps. Who to use the Dark seal on?

Ok to get flayn you basically need to complete a mission task near the end of the first half of the game. And to get non students you need to be lvl 20 or get to the next half of the game.

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9 hours ago, GreatTacticianMoon said:

Ok to get flayn you basically need to complete a mission task near the end of the first half of the game. And to get non students you need to be lvl 20 or get to the next half of the game.

Thx for the help, but at the point that I picked Edelgard her side. Not a real surprise at the tombs, or was that just me? Saw that coming for ages...

Decided to drop Linhardt (with his crappy low ranged Warp) and Sylvain. 

Mercedes is the only healer I really need with the huge range of Fortify.

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16 hours ago, Silly said:

Now you're going to tell me that Armor Knights in GBA are high tier because "you can just play slow" and take 20 turns to clear every map when most maps are perfectly beatable in less than half that time with a normal pace of play.

Nobody mentioned anything about LTCing the maps. Even with casual, moderately efficient play the class is still bad.

I think thats being a bit silly. You can use armor knights on a lot of maps in the GBA games where they don't have to move far to take care of a problematic area for you. And if they get left behind latter on who cares, I hardly need all my units to clear a map but I do need high defense units to make a lot of tough situations much easier. Not to mention latter on there is warp in Three Houses.

An armor knight is great for luring enemies in and NOT killing enemies. No, I don't want Edelgard ORKO everything and stealing all the EXP from my other units. I want Edelgard to feed kills to the rest of my army. So yes, I purposefully want to make her slow and high defense so I have a unit whos sole job is to feed kills to others. And the damn woman still crits enemies. No, Edelgard, stop stealing exp. lol

Edited by wissenschaft
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I tried armor knight for a bit, but the lack of movement and especially low speed is killing it for me. I could give her the March ring or movement+2 item, but her speed was horrible from the start. Most likely she is speed screwed. 

As stated, went with Edelgard... shouldn't anyone have stated that I would lose Flayn on this route?! I had a dancer "debate" earlier, but never crossed my mind I could lose the only Dancer... owh well... lesson learned.

Just fought the first battle against Rhea, need to still finish it(need a bit luck to ORKO her), but stalled the fight for the Blessed bow, was it worth it?

More team members I lose any time soon? And I guess Hilda won't be joining?

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