My thoughts on the game, 60 hours in, at Black Eagles chapter 14. Spoilers.

[Alastor15243]

I've basically been spending most of my free time for the last week playing this game since I got it at release. I was deliberately avoiding information about it to play it as blind as possible, but I was cautiously optimistic about this game, with most of the stuff I heard about it sounding interesting, and I found the new art style and more subdued, less anime attitude to remind me of the Tellius games. I was, however, extremely nervous that the continued insistence on making the time travel mechanic both omnipresent and canon was a sign that IS genuinely thought it was balanced for non-casuals and that they were going to start making some very questionable design choices because they're assuming everyone's using it.

As is my tradition with every fire emblem game since fates, I resolved to play this game on hard classic ironman, which means no save reloading, no divine pulse, everyone who dies on my first try is dead forever unless the game proves so hostile to that playstyle that the game becomes impossible to finish. I find that the more strictly you play a game, the more obvious its flaws become.

And now, here I am, 60 hours into the black eagle path, and I'm at chapter 14. And it feels like I'm halfway through the game.

I haven't been keeping up with what people think of the game besides the friends who've played it that I've talked to. They both seem to like it. So I have no idea how my opinions about this game are about to be received.

But I am not happy. At this point I'm mostly playing it out of a desire to see this thing through and to be able to say I've beaten the latest Fire Emblem game, because I'm finding the gameplay disappointingly mediocre and I'm even less invested in the story than I was with Fates.

Oh, it started out promising, aside from the annoyance of Byleth. I don't like him. I like his appearance, sort of, though the unworn sleeves look goofy from the back. But I don't like how the game refuses to make him his own character and yet has so much of the story revolve around him as an important, charismatic and emotional person while refusing to even let him speak except for when characters were voiced in Awakening. I just don't get this decision to make him a gesturing miming mute. Also, the scene where he meets Sothis and gets the divine pulse is, hands down, the dumbest thing I've ever seen any character do in a Fire Emblem game. He had seven goddamned seconds to stop that bandit, and the best thing that he, as a mercenary with years of training from a renowned warrior, could think of to save Edelgard, who saw the guy coming and had a knife drawn four seconds before he reached her and was ready to fight, was to push her out of the way while facing away from the bandit and tank the axe blow with his neck. It almost felt like it was a dig at the sorts of people who use the divine pulse, but I know that can't possibly be it, because this is the game that convinced me Intelligent Systems actually thinks rewinds are balanced for normal play.

But beyond that, the story started out promising. It was slow as hell, with the school and calendar system putting a ridiculous amount of filler between story chapters, but it was interesting, full of intrigue, and way more compelling than anything in Fates. It really felt like it was building up to something.

And then it completely skipped its act two.

By the time Byleth went Super Saiyan Sothis and killed the weird-eyed wizard whose name I've already forgotten, I was 40 hours into the game, and I had mostly just been doing errands for an increasingly creepy woman and her church, but I still lacked any real concept of what her motives are or why I should like or hate her, let alone what the motives of the other three factions are and why I should join them or for what purpose. All I really knew were the things Edelgard told me in her supports, which to be fair I unlocked without even trying, like with every other support with every other character in the game. But still, I didn't know nearly enough to even have a concept of which side I'd like to take in some grand, epic war of moral greys, which hadn't even yet shown any signs of coming. I was certain there was going to be at least another few chapters to introduce us to the coming conflict, bare minimum what Fates' intro chapters did. The absolute last thing I was expecting, at this point in the game, was for the game to force me to pick a side immediately. Unfortunately, it did. And it did it in the most bizarre way ever.

Purely out of a desire to hear Edelgard's take on Byleth's hair turning aero blue, I sought her out during exploration mode and wound up getting asked if I wanted to take a quick trip with her to the capital of the empire.

Boom.

Suddenly the game starts playing this really dramatic heartbeat sound effect while impressing on me that I have to "choose wisely" because this decision has a huge impact on the course of the story.  And my options are:

*Go with Edelgard to do an unexplained thing

*Don't go with Edelgard to do an unexplained thing.

...The writers do know what the term "wisely" means, right? Because I didn't know it at the time, but what I decided here was whether or not I even got the CHOICE of picking sides in a massive continent-wide conflict. And I made that choice with absolutely no knowledge or concept of what my decision even meant. She might as well have flipped a coin and asked me to call heads or tails for all the meaning my decision actually had. You can't "wisely" call a coin toss. You need information to make a "wise" decision about it.

And then, and then, I get to the holy tomb, Edelgard shows up raiding the place and revealing herself to be the flame emperor all along. And then you fight her because she refuses to explain why she's doing any of this. And then you beat her, she still refuses to explain why she's doing any of this, and you're told to kill her. And if you chose to go with her to the empire, like I did, you then have this "choice":

*I must kill Edelgard

*I must protect Edelgard

And it was at that moment that I realized what people who played Mass Effect were talking about when they complained about the dialogue wheel not properly explaining what the dialogue options even imply. Because I had no idea what "protect" even meant. Was I going to persuade Rhea to spare her and throw her in prison, to not make a martyr out of her? Or was I going to defect to her side, apropos of nothing, with no more information about what her motives and reasons for attacking the church were than I did when the game made me fight her?

I had to ask my friend for clarification on this matter before I chose it, because I didn't want to look up spoilers, but I also wanted some concept of the choice I was making without compromising my ironman run by save scumming. But then when he told me that I only had the choice because I didn't miss that dialogue option and made the right call, I said "screw it, death flag dad thought the church was shady as hell, and I'm no fan of theocracy. I'll side with Edelgard and see what's going on."

Turns out it was the latter. You defect to her side, without any further knowledge of what the fuck is going on, and without any new information that would logically change Byleth's state of mind from wanting to stop her from raiding the tomb to wanting to help her overthrow the church. And it was only then that I got any real explanation of what I had just signed up for, what Edelgard's motives were, or any real concrete case that the church is an actual outright bad thing. And it wasn't until the chapter after that that I learned that I had just made my character completely on board with the notion of world domination.

And then rocks fall, I don't rewind to save myself, I enter a coma, and wake up 5 years later. And that was the timeskip I had heard about. With nearly nothing changing about the state of the empire's war on the continent, like they had just been standing in the ruins of the academy, not bothering to fix it, for five goddamned years because they couldn't do anything without my miming mute muppet to tell them what to do. Everyone just got cool new outfits they only get to wear in exactly one advanced class, new supports unlocked that picked up on five year old conversations like nothing happened, and the crops I planted before leaving the monastery were still there, ready for me to harvest at the greenhouse.

And it was at this point that I completely stopped giving a shit. The dialogue wasn't cringey or anything, and the story seemed like it could have been interesting, but I feel completely dislocated from absolutely everything that's going on, like I walked in on a movie halfway through. Which really isn't a feeling I should have after having to play for about two straight days' worth of gameplay to get to this point.

I have never seen a game fumble alliance selection this terribly. Der Langrisser may be little more than a saturday morning cartoon writingwise, but when Leon asks you to join the empire, you at least have a decent idea at that point of why you would, what you're making your character decide, and what the faction's goals are. And Fates, for all the black and white utter stupidity of its story, at least summed up the conflict and clearly told you what your decisions meant, even if you usually had to make your decision in advance when you bought your game version and had to shell out 20 bucks to change your mind. But this... this... I'm just so completely lost, I still don't understand anything about what those bad guys in the first 40 hours were trying to do, and I'm fighting for a side I picked on a hunch without any buildup at all, and unlike with Fates, the reasons why I don't care about the story aren't even funny.

And that isn't enough to kill the game for me, not remotely. Even hating Conquest's story with a passion doesn't stop it from being my favorite game in the series. But the gameplay is also really disappointing.

...However, attempting to go into the specifics of why I don't find it that great would make this post way longer than it already is, so I'll just post my thoughts on the story for now and see where exactly this  conversation goes before I share anything else.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Armchair General]

To be fair, it's kind of obvious that the church is...crazy, to say the least when comes to handling dissent. And the biased library provides some info on the infighting of the Empire. But other than that, you're more or less trapped in the dark as to why Rhea is letting you use a glowing whip and becoming a teacher.

[Timlugia]

59 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

church is...crazy, to say the least when comes to handling dissent

Actually I think it's more complicated than just being dissent, since you don't have to be a believer to work for church either.

Those western church guys were put to death for being involved in assassination plot, but I am sure they were cheated by TWSITD to begin with.

 

It's pretty clear Lornato's letter were planted by TWSITD to mislead Rhea into believe an assassination. TWSITD then told western church guys to go steal the tomb, probably told them Crest of Flame was inside, but nothing about "assassination" part. So they were so shocked about being charged for murders. To Rhea they were assassins besides being thieves. 

The real problem I have with Rhea here was not interrogate them more, they might be able to catch TWISTD early if they follow up the leads.

[Armchair General]

Especially when one of the survivors said that they were misled. But considering how Rhea actually goes off the deep end in one of the routes, her lack of judgement isn't surprising.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

Especially when one of the survivors said that they were misled. But considering how Rhea actually goes off the deep end in one of the routes, her lack of judgement isn't surprising.

Oh sure, I saw more than enough to know she wasn't the squeaky clean lady she liked to portray herself as. But given that my other option just tried to kill me and my entire class without explaining why, holy shit was I in need of more info to go on for this decision, at minimum. And that's to say nothing of the suddenness of the moment of truth. Again, like I said, despite how freakishly long this game is for a Fire Emblem game, it feels like it's missing an entire second act.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Velth]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh sure, I saw more than enough to know she wasn't the squeaky clean lady she liked to portray herself as. But given that my other option just tried to kill me and my entire class without explaining why, holy shit was I in need of more info to go on for this decision, at minimum. And that's to say nothing of the suddenness of the moment of truth. Again, like I said, despite how freakishly long this game is for a Fire Emblem game, it feels like it's missing an entire second act.

First off - I agree that the are issues with how this route split is handled. However, your complaints entirely miss the point of what is wrong with it. There are probably going to be posts regarding that bit and I do not care enough to make one. I will say this though; the game does a really bad job of telling you that the choice even exists. It constantly hints at something big about to happen with her and Hubert, but instead leaves it to the player to randomly talk to her.

From the dialog, it is abundantly clear that Edelgard is up to something nefarious and that there is something shifty going on with the church. The game gives you all the information you need. If you are unable to parse it, that is your problem. In particular, Edelgards dialog following Jeralt's death is basically " could you ever agree with the ideals of the flame emperor, like I do?".  Similarly, Rheas dialog when dealing with the western church is clearly indicative of some theocratic tendencies. Moreover, the texts in the library clearly outline the history of the church, further supporting the fact that they are very shady. In addition to all this, Rhea acts extremely weird after Byleth goes super sayan (which you find out later is because she was expecting a different outcome at the throne of knowledge).

Amidst these events (and Edelgards supports, which are mandatory to get the option to defect to her side) you discover that misuse of a crest stone leads to the demonic beasts and that the empire/church is engaging in crest experimentation. The conclusion you reach (which is more or less directly told to you in game) is that Edelgard hates crests and wishes to rid the world of them.

I really do not understand your gripe with this plot point, it is totally fine from a writing perspective. It seems as if you are going into the game with the intent of disliking it.  Do you want to be given the plot in bullet point format before every major decision? What is the point of an important decision if you already know for certain what happens after you make it? How much more obvious could it be that following Edelgard is going to lead to something related to her and the other option will not? 

Sidenote: omegalul at the fates comments in the OP. The conflict in fates was based on literally nothing (as far as conquest and birthright are concerned). The "decision", by the standards you just applied to three houses, is beyond trash and has ascended in to completely reprehensible.

In fates, you do not know why anything happens until Revelations, nothing either kingdom believes is true. Moreover, the motivation leading up to that decision is non-existent (which is not the case here). You were effectively making your choice based on which character designs you liked best. 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Velth

[Alastor15243]

 

7 hours ago, Velth said:

First off - I agree that the are issues with how this route split is handled. However, your complaints entirely miss the point of what is wrong with it. There are probably going to be posts regarding that bit and I do not care enough to make one. I will say this though; the game does a really bad job of telling you that the choice even exists. It constantly hints at something big about to happen with her and Hubert, but instead leaves it to the player to randomly talk to her.

I believe I did discuss how completely luck-based and unintuitive the choice is, unless I misunderstand you.

17 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

The absolute last thing I was expecting, at this point in the game, was for the game to force me to pick a side immediately. Unfortunately, it did. And it did it in the most bizarre way ever.

Purely out of a desire to hear Edelgard's take on Byleth's hair turning aero blue, I sought her out during exploration mode and wound up getting asked if I wanted to take a quick trip with her to the capital of the empire.

Boom.

Suddenly the game starts playing this really dramatic heartbeat sound effect while impressing on me that I have to "choose wisely" because this decision has a huge impact on the course of the story.  And my options are:

*Go with Edelgard to do an unexplained thing

*Don't go with Edelgard to do an unexplained thing.

...The writers do know what the term "wisely" means, right? Because I didn't know it at the time, but what I decided here was whether or not I even got the CHOICE of picking sides in a massive continent-wide conflict. And I made that choice with absolutely no knowledge or concept of what my decision even meant. She might as well have flipped a coin and asked me to call heads or tails for all the meaning my decision actually had. You can't "wisely" call a coin toss. You need information to make a "wise" decision about it.

As for the idea that I should have had enough information from reading between the lines to make my decision then and there, well, setting aside the fact that I consider that to be a drastically high demand of a player's memory in a game that has rather bland dialogue and that's taken 40-50 hours to play to this point... if that's true, if I should have been well-informed enough to make the decision by that point in the game, then Byleth should have too. When Edelgard attacks the crypt, there's nothing Byleth doesn't know in that moment about the situation that he's going to know by the time he's given the ultimatum to execute her or join her. Because after you beat her, like I said, there's no further information given. She doesn't explain anything more about her motives or worldview. Nothing to change Byleth's mind from the sort of person who's railroaded into fighting her like that's the only conceivable option. If Byleth was the sort of person who would choose to join Edelgard after that fight, he would have been the sort of person who would have chosen to side with Edelgard before the fight. Literally the only thing that changes is that now Byleth either has to join her to protect her, or kill her.

So, if that's the case, the only rational explanation for why that piece of information is the last straw is that Byleth opposes Edelgard's plans, but draws the line at killing her so hard that he's prepared to defect to her side to keep her alive. But then you join her and no, that's not the interpretation that works at all. Because the game gives you absolutely no opportunity to say you disagree with her methods after you've joined her, even though she even gives you the opportunity to back out, which if the above interpretation was correct, Byleth would have. But the game only allows you to say at that moment that Byleth's already made his choice. If you make the choice to defect to her, you are declaring that Byleth, even before that fight, believed Edelgard was completely in the right. Which naturally raises the question of why you don't choose to join her before the battle. It's not like she says you have to die. She just says she's prepared to kill you if you get in her way. Which naturally Byleth wouldn't want to.

As for the accusation that I went into this game, a game I preordered, and bought on launch day for 60 dollars, wanting to hate it, I don't know what to say to that. I was really excited to play this game, and it slowly eroded my goodwill by the ridiculous amount of minigame fluff between battles, the map and battle design that learned nothing from Conquest, the promising class system turning out to basically be a really archaic selection of like 12 classes at best with an illusion of wide open choice, and the numerous flaws in game design that convinced me that someone at IS somehow managed to convinced themselves that the turnwheel is balanced. Do you really think I would spend 60 hours of my life playing a game I wanted to hate?

Edited August 4, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Pikappa93]

I agree that the game has its flaws, but this thread is basically "let's dislike it at any cost, I want to dislike it, you should dislike it too". There are flaws, sure, but saying the story is worse than Fates is... Well. 

[Alastor15243]

13 minutes ago, Pikappa93 said:

I agree that the game has its flaws, but this thread is basically "let's dislike it at any cost, I want to dislike it, you should dislike it too". There are flaws, sure, but saying the story is worse than Fates is... Well. 

Where do you get that I'm trying my hardest to hate it? I'm just explaining my reasoning for disliking it.

And I didn't say the story is worse than Fates. That would be a ridiculous thing to say, since really the only thing Fates does better is the lead up to the alliance choice, and only by technicality.

I said I was less invested in it than I was in Fates. Because at least when Fates bucked me off the take-this-seriously horse, I could still have fun laughing at it. Here, after Three Houses bucked me off, I had nothing left but boredom because the game takes itself so seriously. Which would be great if it were well told, but the three or so chapters surrounding the timeskip are so rushed in their pacing and clumsy in their execution that the game emotionally left me behind.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Armchair General]

With Fates, you were kind of pushed into siding with Nohr because they've raised you and Takumi hates you for some reason, but at least it had some buildup to it. With 3H, the beginning is rushed and the three countries are an powder keg. But as far as I can tell, it looks good, but most of the exposition should've came earlier.

[Tenzen12]

I don't see why. It's not like either choice is wrong. Well, of course going with Edie put you on "bad guys win bonus route", but that's interesting choice in it's own right. There is lot of things hidden and you can't figure everything on single playthrough anyway.

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Tenzen12 said:

I don't see why. It's not like either choice is wrong. Well, of course going with Edie put you on "bad guys win bonus route", but that's interesting choice in it's own right. There is lot of things hidden and you can't figure everything on single playthrough anyway.

Would I have been less confused if I never unlocked that route? Is it not supposed to be played first?

[BZL8]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

Would I have been less confused if I never unlocked that route? Is it not supposed to be played first?

You aren't going to get the full story and understanding of characters just by playing one route, OP. 

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, BZL8 said:

You aren't going to get the full story and understanding of characters just by playing one route, OP. 

I should know enough to at least think I understand what's going on before I sign on to any faction. And my question was more if the game would have made more sense and had better pacing if I didn't get that decision the first time through.

[Tenzen12]

I mean you know as much as Byleth, well little more then him. He have to decide based on guts so do you (though I don't think he would side with person responsible for his father death, that's bit of red flag) It's not really good story telling reveal everything if you don't tell story by omniscient narrator. 

[BZL8]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I should know enough to at least think I understand what's going on before I sign on to any faction. And my question was more if the game would have made more sense and had better pacing if I didn't get that decision the first time through.

Honestly for me, the decision to side with either Edelgard or the Church isn't as ham-fisted as you make it out to be. I am going to side with @Velth that the dialogue, outlined direction of characters, and other tidbits made it very clear that such a decision would arrive. 

Let me also make sure, where does the game not make sense for you? The characters and or their arcs? The decision of the player? The overall story? 

[Alastor15243]

18 minutes ago, BZL8 said:

Honestly for me, the decision to side with either Edelgard or the Church isn't as ham-fisted as you make it out to be. I am going to side with @Velth that the dialogue, outlined direction of characters, and other tidbits made it very clear that such a decision would arrive. 

Let me also make sure, where does the game not make sense for you? The characters and or their arcs? The decision of the player? The overall story? 

I understand far more now about the conflict than I did at the time of the decision, which is the main problem. Nowhere in my supports with Edelgard did I get the impression that she intended to overthrow the entire continent. I read the whole thing as her commitment to reforming her own country's screwed up obsession with crests and nobility, which was pretty much the entirely of what she opened up to me about. Nowhere did I get the impression that she had any grudge against the church to surpass her animosity with her own country's government. My impression the whole time was that she was planning a campaign of reform to get rid of the corrupt aristocracy in her own empire. Her primary beef with the church revolves around the fact that it's an ancient illuminati conspiracy run by dragons, which she only reveals after you side with her. None of the four factions were even in open conflict until this moment, meaning there was no opportunity to even establish any grievances any faction might have with each other.

And as I said, even if there were enough information to see this coming, you learn nothing about Edelgard or her cause between the time you automatically side against her and the time you can choose to join her. The fact that Byleth therefore agreed with Edelgard before the fight yet fought with her anyway and only joined when he beat her makes no sense.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Alastor15243

[BZL8]

2 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I understand far more now about the conflict than I did at the time of the decision, which is the main problem

I don't see that as a problem. I think it makes for a rewarding experience, especially when you do the other routes.  

With your response in mind, I think your issue with the game has more to do with you taking issue with the character of Edelgard rather than the decision itself.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, BZL8 said:

I don't see that as a problem. I think it makes for a rewarding experience, especially when you do the other routes.  

With your response in mind, I think your issue with the game has more to do with you taking issue with the character of Edelgard rather than the decision itself.

It's a problem because when the game made me make those "huge decisions", I was flailing around blindly because I had no idea what the choices meant or why I'd choose them even if I did. That was an obscenely frustrating experience, and then when the game jumped straight to world domination, I felt like I had completely lost the memo of why we were doing it. And then the time skip happened with almost no consequence, almost like a shoehorned in excuse to get them older.

[Tenzen12]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I understand far more now about the conflict than I did at the time of the decision, which is the main problem. Nowhere in my supports with Edelgard did I get the impression that she intended to overthrow the entire continent. I read the whole thing as her commitment to reforming her own country's screwed up obsession with crests and nobility, which was pretty much the entirely of what she opened up to me about. Nowhere did I get the impression that she had any grudge against the church to surpass her animosity with her own country's government. My impression the whole time was that she was planning a campaign of reform to get rid of the corrupt aristocracy in her own empire. Her primary beef with the church revolves around the fact that it's an ancient illuminati conspiracy run by dragons, which she only reveals after you side with her. None of the four factions were even in open conflict until this moment, meaning there was no opportunity to even establish any grievances any faction might have with each other.

And as I said, even if there were enough information to see this coming, you learn nothing about Edelgard or her cause between the time you automatically side against her and the time you can choose to join her. The fact that Byleth therefore agreed with Edelgard before the fight yet fought with her anyway and only joined when he beat her makes no sense.

Well in her support with Hubert she talk about path of blood and how she have to walk all the way on it. In your normal story conversation she talks how even fighting gods is possible and how might come time to turn against own students.

Edie certainly isn't very good in hiding her extremism at least not from her teacher.

[Alastor15243]

7 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Well in her support with Hubert she talk about path of blood and how she have to walk all the way on it. In your normal story conversation she talks how even fighting gods is possible and how might come time to turn against own students.

Edie certainly isn't very good in hiding her extremism at least not from her teacher.

I'd like to point out that I went into this game blind. If pre-release materials gave everyone more information to expect and look for extremism from Edelgard, I didn't see it, nor should I have needed to. I unlocked basically every single character's support conversations just naturally through the course of playing because the support requirements are so lenient as to be meaningless. I don't know if I could tell you what a third of them were about, the game made me watch so many and most were so bland that it was all mostly a blur. If I needed to be paying attention to and memorizing subtle hints in these technically optional conversations in order to understand what's going on in the main, mandatory, dozens-of-hours-long campaign, I don't think very much of that design philosophy at all.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Alastor15243

[BZL8]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's a problem because when the game made me make those "huge decisions", I was flailing around blindly because I had no idea what the choices meant or why I'd choose them even if I did. That was an obscenely frustrating experience, and then when the game jumped straight to world domination, I felt like I had completely lost the memo of why we were doing it. And then the time skip happened with almost no consequence, almost like a shoehorned in excuse to get them older.

If you didn't see the red traffic light before the accident, there's not much I can really add to this conversation here. 

[Armchair General]

Yeah, Hubert is basically an walking disaster zone going by his C support with male Byleth...and half of his house...and against anyone else who tries to get close to Edelgad. Which kind of makes sense, since his family is essentially Internal Affairs.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'd like to point out that I went into this game blind. If pre-release materials gave everyone more information to expect and look for extremism from Edelgard, I didn't see it, nor should I have needed to. I unlocked basically every single character's support conversations just naturally through the course of playing because the support requirements are so lenient as to be meaningless. I don't know if I could tell you what a third of them were about, the game made me watch so many and most were so bland that it was all mostly a blur. If I needed to be paying attention to and memorizing subtle hints in these technically optional conversations in order to understand what's going on in the main, mandatory, dozens-of-hours-long campaign, I don't think very much of that design philosophy at all.

 

[Phoenix Wright]

i haven't played it yet, as the game is too long, but i had a feeling edelgard's would be the worst route. it's definitely interesting, but it wasn't handled super well in the golden deer route to begin with.

i will say, before we all dissect this game thoroughly, i genuinely enjoyed claude and the rest of the yellow deer a lot throughout the story. i realized something that i subconsciously knew years ago: i don't care for support conversations. the backstories are contrived and, for me, have a feeling of being hastily written. they're disconnected, especially in this game due to the timeskip, and i don't feel immersed when i read the supports. my feelings about the characters themselves come purely from their involvement in the plot--in that sense, at least with the deer, i was satisfied--more than almost any other fe i've played. 

that being said, i agree with the op in some ways. byleth is lame (expected, as i think all silent protagonists are lame) and the choices really are uninformed when you're making the choice. with claude, i just chose the options that i assumed would lead to good things (the church liking me and all that). "choice" in a video game is hard to do well, fuck it's hard to even do "okay." this game, so far, has been "meh" with how choices are implemented.

the plot, though? i actually like the overall plot a lot. and it really shines at a good number of points in the story. but my god, pre-timeskip is such a slog, especially if you've beaten the game once. i don't understand why the chapters aren't different for the different houses. i don't understand why int. sys. keeps going for the 3 games in 1 thing--just make 1 damn game lol

[Alastor15243]

20 minutes ago, Phoenix Wright said:

i haven't played it yet, as the game is too long, but i had a feeling edelgard's would be the worst route. it's definitely interesting, but it wasn't handled super well in the golden deer route to begin with.

i will say, before we all dissect this game thoroughly, i genuinely enjoyed claude and the rest of the yellow deer a lot throughout the story. i realized something that i subconsciously knew years ago: i don't care for support conversations. the backstories are contrived and, for me, have a feeling of being hastily written. they're disconnected, especially in this game due to the timeskip, and i don't feel immersed when i read the supports. my feelings about the characters themselves come purely from their involvement in the plot--in that sense, at least with the deer, i was satisfied--more than almost any other fe i've played. 

that being said, i agree with the op in some ways. byleth is lame (expected, as i think all silent protagonists are lame) and the choices really are uninformed when you're making the choice. with claude, i just chose the options that i assumed would lead to good things (the church liking me and all that). "choice" in a video game is hard to do well, fuck it's hard to even do "okay." this game, so far, has been "meh" with how choices are implemented.

the plot, though? i actually like the overall plot a lot. and it really shines at a good number of points in the story. but my god, pre-timeskip is such a slog, especially if you've beaten the game once. i don't understand why the chapters aren't different for the different houses. i don't understand why int. sys. keeps going for the 3 games in 1 thing--just make 1 damn game lol

I'm starting to get the feeling that I had very bad luck with my choice of house and campaign path, and I might have enjoyed this story a lot more if I had done literally anything but what I accidentally did. Looking back, if I hadn't thought the game's class system let you make mageknights out of almost anything, I probably would have picked Golden Deer, since Claude came across as the most likable and entertaining from the start. The only reason I picked Black Eagles was because they use more magic.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Alastor15243