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Black Eagles: Civil War


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You know how at the end of chapter 11 Black Eagles, you make the choice to side with Rhea and the church, or Edelgard and the empire? Normally (with a few exceptions) your students follow whichever path you do...but what if hey didn't?

What if the class was split between loyalty to their leader and loyalty to their teacher? Which side would each student pick?

In my mind, Marianna and Lysythia (cross-house recruitment) would side with Edelgard, because the crests are to blame, etc. Dorothea would also be on her side, seeing as I ship them very strongly.

Linhardt would never side with Edelgard in this instance, as would Caspar.

I'll probably make a fanfic of this at some point. 

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8 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Since Caspar is all about vanquishing evil he likely wouldn't side with the "villain" route.

Of course, that's what I said. The wording may have been a bit ambiguous, but you can determine it fairly quickly from contextual clues.

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Yeah, it was really weirdly handled how they just joined whatever you decided, well, except Hubert.
One could make a case that it's because Byleth is the 'no don't that stupid and evil thing' of the game, but you know.
... And also the gray morality of the entire thing.

A fanfic will probably be done about that in the future. (Dew it !)

Edited by B.Leu
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Ferdinand for instance I think would side with the church.  He’s nobility and proud of it (while Edelgard opposes the class system).  Also her first act as Empress is to dismiss his father from the family’s hereditary role of Prime Minister.  His friendly rivalry could easily develop into a grudge or even vendetta with the stunts Edelgard pulls.  

Edited by DystopianAlphaOmega
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20 minutes ago, DystopianAlphaOmega said:

Ferdinand for instance I think would side with the church.  He’s nobility and proud of it (while Edelgard opposes the class system).  Also her first act as Empress is to dismiss his father from the family’s hereditary role of Prime Minister.  His friendly rivalry could easily develop into a grudge or even vendetta with the stunts Edelgard pulls.  

I am actually surprised that Ferdinand was alive at all on Edelgard route, consider how much Edelgard hates his family, and all the sedition talks he made against her.

Then she disposed his father, confiscated all his property, most people probably would defect by this point

 

I understand it's more about keeping game balance, but I really don't see why he would serve the empire

 

Quote

Lysythia (cross-house recruitment) would side with Edelgard,

I actually disagree. If you play any anti-Edelgard route, she actually hates empire with a passion

According to her, after empire took over her house, they sent mages (TWSITD) to force experiment on her family, killing all her siblings.

I doubt she will really sided with empire with such background.

 

Edited by Timlugia
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14 hours ago, Timlugia said:

According to her, after empire took over her house, they sent mages (TWSITD) to force experiment on her family, killing all her siblings.

I doubt she will really sided with empire with such background.

 

The way I see it, she’s not fighting for the empire so much as she’s fighting for Edelgard and what she wants: an end to crests and crest-driven society.

@Tenzen12, why those three?

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Well,

Petra and Edie are true friends. It might be bit stretch, but it could be reason enough. 

Sylvain: Edie is Girl, and if Byleth is guy... 

Felix: I do not feel any strong loyalty from him toward his country and there is certainly grudge about his brother.

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I don't see why Petra would side with the Empire, she's a glorified hostage to the Empire so Brigid doesn't stir shit, she'd probably side against Edelgard to free herself from that arrangement.

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Well, she had opportunity return to Brigid as free person, but refused because she has friends in school (with Edie and Hubert who she seems genuinely grateful, included) 

Well I would still give it fifty-fifty at most as Eldegard is not exactly best in selling her ideals to others. 

Edited by Tenzen12
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2 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

Sylvain: Edie is Girl, and if Byleth is guy... 

In my game, Byleth is a girl, so...

Sylvain probably won't be significant either way, honestly.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Ok, so I am aware that it has been a while since this thread was put out, but I have more ideas on which side the students will pick. Though, in some cases, it would be more ambiguous. Only played GD and BL, but I think I have a decent idea about what is going on. Spoilered for length and actual spoilers. This will be among all those who could become part of the BE house.

Spoiler
  • Hubert: Edelgard, obviously.
  • Dorothea: I agree that Dorothea would likely side with Edelgard due to the bonds they share. Though I have heard that the nobility system screwed her over, and that is one of the things Edelgard wants to abolish.
  • Ferdinand: I think he would side against Edelgard. Not because of the rivalry, but because, at least in the paths I played, House Aegir gets screwed over by Edelgard. He might want to restore his house name. I might be missing a few details, though.
  • Bernadetta: If this is taking place on the BE path, like I think you are saying, she might just side with whatever Byleth sides with. Mostly because she is very much comfortable around him.
  • Caspar: He would most certainly know how Edelgard is linked with recent injustices, so he’d side with the Church. This is not the only person Edelgard loses by being associated with TWSITD.
  • Petra: Not sure. I suppose if Edelgard convinces her Brigid will be safe, she’d side with Edelgard. Especially since the Empire is closer to Brigid than the Kingdom or Alliance.
  • Linhardt: He would see value in the Crest Stones. And he would not want that stuff in Edelgard’s hands. Also, Caspar sides against Edelgard, so more reason, I guess.
  • Felix: Hard one, honestly. But I don’t think he hates his country that much, just the chivalry it upholds. Really, I’d argue he cares too much. So he’d likely side against the Empire.
  • Mercedes: Side against the Empire. She had good reason to leave, and she would never want to come back.
  • Ashe: Also difficult. But I think he’d side against Edelgard. Because the Western Church (which is in the Empire) were the ones who led Lonato to his death. The situation with Christophe would be more complicated, though. But he would think Lonato and Christophe would want him to protect the Empire as best he can.
  • Annette: She would side against the Empire. She just does not have a reason to, and Mercedes would want to go against the Empire, too.
  • Sylvain: He would side with the Empire. Given his personal experiences, he hates the Crest nobility system. So he would not hesitate to fight alongside the Empire so he would more easily see a future without reliance on Crests.
  • Ingrid: I think, because she wants to be a Kingdom knight in her heart above all else, she would side with the Kingdom against the Empire.
  • Lorenz: He takes pride in being an Alliance noble, so I do not think he would want to side with the Empire. Especially since Edelgard is linked to the suffering of commoners at the hands of TWSITD, like what happened at Remire.
  • Hilda: Against the Empire. Even the game itself says so.
  • Raphael: Against the Empire. If Edelgard is willing to put the Alliance in danger, it would put his sister in danger, too.
  • Lysithea: I agree that she would side with the Empire. The chances would likely increase if she has support conversations with Edelgard herself.
  • Ignatz: Against the Empire. He’d see no reason to.
  • Marianne: With the Empire, if she does not commit suicide first. She blames her troubles on her Crest, and Edelgard would want to create a Crestless future.
  • Leonie: Edelgard is linked with TWSITD (at least, I think she would put that together). TWSITD killed Jeralt. Therefore, she’d want nothing to do with Edelgard and the Empire. Against.

Total Tally:

  • With Edelgard: 6 (7 if Bernie is included)
  • Against Edelgard: 13 (14 if Bernie is included)

All in all, Edelgard made a lot of enemies.

 

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Interesting question. I'm mostly ignoring Byleth here, because I prefer not to try to weigh how much loyalty each character has to a silent protagonist.

Black Eagles

Most of the Black Eagles makes sense on Edelgard's side. The writers obviously agreed with me, as all seven are fought defending the Empire on the Azure Moon and Verdant Winds routes.

Hubert: Obvious.

Dorothea: With Edelgard. She hates the church and hates nobility, and comes across as close with Edie.

Petra: She might side with the Alliance if Claude could guarantee her Brigid's safety. The Kingdom... maaaaybe. I'm a bit more skeptical because the Kingdom is in such a mess, it's in no position to guarantee anything. The church, haha no. She's no fan of organized religion, and she likes Edelgard.

Bernadetta: Would try to find a way to avoid the war entirely. Certainly wouldn't take a leap to join an anti-empire faction, regardless.

Caspar: This is one I'm going to hard disagree with some people here on. Caspar's father is one of Edelgard's close supporters. Caspar likes his family, he likes his friends, and he believes Edelgard's cause is just. I think some folks like to believe that people who like justice wouldn't support villains, but in fact soldiers of even the most terrifying regimes tend to believe what they're doing is just, and Caspar (like Arthur before him, in a less well-written game) is a good example.

Linhardt: Would avoid the war unless Edelgard and/or his father (an Edelgard supporter) rope him into it. Like Bernadetta, would not actively fight against the Empire regardless.

Ferdinand: The most logical church supporter of all the BE, since there's a good chance he would not forgive Edelgard for what she did to his father. I can buy him staying with the Empire, though, because if Edelgard gives him the choice of "you can either be the next Duke Aegir, or you can rot in prison forever", I don't think he's so proud to not choose the first.

Blue Lions and Golden Deer

Yeaah, I don't think many of them would stay with her, with only a few possible exceptions. (Not gonna mention the ones you can't recruit.)

Felix, Ingrid, Annette: no way, they're not betraying their country.
Mercedes: no way, she's not betraying the church.
Ashe: You could say he sides against the church because he blames them for Lonato's death, but that's probably not enough for him to invade his homeland.
Raphael, Ignatz, Marianne, Leonie: I see all four trying to stay out of the conflict initially, but would oppose Edelgard when she invades their homeland. You could maybe argue me on Marianne.

Sylvain: Him I buy on Edelgard's side, because of his hatred of the crests and contempt for the noble system (and his family to some extent) that produced his situation. It's a selfish thing for him to do, but that's Sylvain in a nutshell.

Lorenz: Sides with the Empire on the Blue Lions and Church routes, so there's your answer. I don't think he'd be in the Black Eagle strike force, but he would clearly allign with his father as imperial supporters.

Lysithea: Joins Edelgard due to them being kindred spirits and knowing Edelgard wants to get back at those who hurt them.

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3 minutes ago, Hauke said:

Caspar would side with Edelgard because in HIS view Edelgard is the hero, not the villain.

And Ashe also joins the empire in the GD route...

True, but that’s not really joining the Empire so much as getting roped into fighting with those loyal to the empire.

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16 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Lysithea: Joins Edelgard due to them being kindred spirits and knowing Edelgard wants to get back at those who hurt them.

Honestly how many times would she actually have the information to buy that? The involvement of TWSITD is hidden form the Black Eagles for all of CF and in most routes it would look to Lys that Edelgard was benefiting off the suffering of her family.

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For characters that would side with Edelgard...

Definitely

  • Hubert - Edelgard's retainer/lapdog 
  • Dorothea - Grew up not liking the nobility system (though I can see her joining GD squad as well)
  • Felix - Isn't a fan of Dimitri/Rodrigue in general, though his monastery dialogue in BE-E route shows some sort of remorse for defacting
  • Sylvain - Doesn't like the crest system
  • Manuela - Probably joins to protect her theater troop

Depends on Byleth

  • Bernadetta - Basically will follow wherever Byleth goes and will probably only listen to Byleth (I mean heck, she only agrees to go to Brigid with Petra only because Byleth recommended and asked her). Though also hates violence and she doesn't wanna leave the house
  • Alois - More or less loyal to Jeralt and Byleth and has sworn to protect Byleth no matter where they go
  • Shamir - A mercenary before a KoS, also seems to want to follow Byleth wherever they go

Maybe 

  • Lysithea - Obviously she wants revenge against TWiSTD and doesn't like crests but, Empire was the one that brought House Ordelia under their jurisdiction and sent TWiSTD agents to keep them in check (which led to said experiments). In other routes, she also doesn't condone the violence caused by Edelgard as well and is more or less worried about whether her family gets dragged in.
  • Ingrid - Also doesn't really like the crest system but, she feels that she has a sense of duty to be loyal to her house so she could stay in the Kingdom (seems hesitant in GD/BE/Church route for joining other causes)
  • Petra - More or less a glorified hostage in order to ensure Brigid's loyalty, could see her staying only if Edelgard promises Brigid's safety
  • Caspar - Has a justice-complex, probably doesn't want the war and also Edelgard's affiliation with Death Knight and TWiSTD  that caused a lot of problems during Part 1. But, he sees Edelgard as some sort of hero. His dad is also pro-Edelgard.
  • Lorenz - Count Gloucester regularly sides with the Empire (only rejoins Alliance in GD route but, still had suspicions of Claude so the trust isn't 100%) and Lorenz has been shown to put his father's and nobility's ideals above his own.
  • Leonie - Joins as a mercenary post time-skip, though she could also not join since Edelgard is affiliated with the group that killed Jeralt
  • Hanneman - Had bad times with his sister being abused by a noble and the crest + nobility system in general but, since he's a crest scholar and Edelgard's goal is to get rid of crests there is a bit of a disconnect
  • Annette - Her uncle is forced to submit to the Faerghus dukedom, and her mother (who Annette is closer with) lives with said uncle. Would probably defect to the Empire in order to protect them 
  • Raphael - Could see him joining the Empire in order to ensure protection to his sister and grandfather and for the money (think his monastery dialogue mentioned he was a wandering knight iirc), though he also seems somewhat like a peace advocate 
  • Ashe - Is forced to join the Empire since Lonato's territory is under House Rowe, who are loyal to the empire. Though he is a peace advocate in a sense (could also want to get revenge on the church for Lonato/Christophe)
  • Marianne - Will only join because Margrave Edmund is a coward and wants Marianne to join the Empire to improve his image, and Marianne has shown to not stand up for her own ideals (similar to Lorenz)

No

  • Ferdinand - Has always had a rivalry with Edelgard, doesn't appreciate having his house stripped of power because of her 
  • Linhardt - Peace advocate, probably won't appreciate the all-out war Edelgard wants to start. Also a crest scholar
  • Ignatz - Another peace advocate
  • Mercedes - Devout follower of the church, doesn't want to abolish the church like Edelgard (her reason to join the Empire in BE-E route is pretty weird honestly)
  • Hilda - Loyal to Claude
  • Dedue - Loyal to Dimitri
  • Gilbert - Loyal to Dimitri
  • Catherine - Loyal to Rhea
  • Cyril - Loyal to Rhea
  • Seteth - Loyal to Rhea (even if he doesn't see eye to eye on everything she does)
  • Flayn -  Follows Seteth
Edited by Lunarly
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Since no one commented on it

Hanneman and Manuela are canon traitors to the Church, joining Edelgard if you don't recruit them in the Azure Moon/Blue lions path. They appear as enemy units in Dimitry's paralogue.

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43 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Interesting question. I'm mostly ignoring Byleth here, because I prefer not to try to weigh how much loyalty each character has to a silent protagonist.

Black Eagles

Most of the Black Eagles makes sense on Edelgard's side. The writers obviously agreed with me, as all seven are fought defending the Empire on the Azure Moon and Verdant Winds routes.

Hubert: Obvious.

Dorothea: With Edelgard. She hates the church and hates nobility, and comes across as close with Edie.

Petra: She might side with the Alliance if Claude could guarantee her Brigid's safety. The Kingdom... maaaaybe. I'm a bit more skeptical because the Kingdom is in such a mess, it's in no position to guarantee anything. The church, haha no. She's no fan of organized religion, and she likes Edelgard.

Bernadetta: Would try to find a way to avoid the war entirely. Certainly wouldn't take a leap to join an anti-empire faction, regardless.

Caspar: This is one I'm going to hard disagree with some people here on. Caspar's father is one of Edelgard's close supporters. Caspar likes his family, he likes his friends, and he believes Edelgard's cause is just. I think some folks like to believe that people who like justice wouldn't support villains, but in fact soldiers of even the most terrifying regimes tend to believe what they're doing is just, and Caspar (like Arthur before him, in a less well-written game) is a good example.

Linhardt: Would avoid the war unless Edelgard and/or his father (an Edelgard supporter) rope him into it. Like Bernadetta, would not actively fight against the Empire regardless.

Ferdinand: The most logical church supporter of all the BE, since there's a good chance he would not forgive Edelgard for what she did to his father. I can buy him staying with the Empire, though, because if Edelgard gives him the choice of "you can either be the next Duke Aegir, or you can rot in prison forever", I don't think he's so proud to not choose the first.

Blue Lions and Golden Deer

Yeaah, I don't think many of them would stay with her, with only a few possible exceptions. (Not gonna mention the ones you can't recruit.)

Felix, Ingrid, Annette: no way, they're not betraying their country.
Mercedes: no way, she's not betraying the church.
Ashe: You could say he sides against the church because he blames them for Lonato's death, but that's probably not enough for him to invade his homeland.
Raphael, Ignatz, Marianne, Leonie: I see all four trying to stay out of the conflict initially, but would oppose Edelgard when she invades their homeland. You could maybe argue me on Marianne.

Sylvain: Him I buy on Edelgard's side, because of his hatred of the crests and contempt for the noble system (and his family to some extent) that produced his situation. It's a selfish thing for him to do, but that's Sylvain in a nutshell.

Lorenz: Sides with the Empire on the Blue Lions and Church routes, so there's your answer. I don't think he'd be in the Black Eagle strike force, but he would clearly allign with his father as imperial supporters.

Lysithea: Joins Edelgard due to them being kindred spirits and knowing Edelgard wants to get back at those who hurt them.

I was going to make a post but I pretty much agree with everything you've said. However, as this game is highly driven by the avatar's decisions and literal existence (hello, potential future archbishop of the church??), I can see people making valid arguments for either side depending on circumstances. There are certain things that occur in different routes, so it's hard to say exactly who would join which side unless we set a baseline.

If we're going to go with the avatar not existing and the events play out very similar to how they did prior to the Flame Emperor reveal...the ones I see that are definite for staying with Edie are...

Hubert and Dorothea

And the ones explicitly against her are...

Ingrid, Annette, Mercedes (regardless of her relation to the DK), Leonie (Jeralt's death alone, I don't think anything else matters as much)

Lorenz's situation is a special one, because he's not explicitly for the Empire, but he will side with them because his family does.

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On 8/3/2019 at 1:17 PM, KnightOfNohr said:

 

In my mind, Marianna and Lysythia (cross-house recruitment) would side with Edelgard, because the crests are to blame, etc.

I don't see Marianne wishing to fight the church of Seiros. She seems extremely devoted to the goddess. 

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Just now, Vince777 said:

I don't see Marianne wishing to fight the church of Seiros. She seems extremely devoted to the goddess. 

The goddess, yes, but you can believe in the goddess without agreeing with the church.

I can't see Marianne fighting in the war on her own at all. Assuming she's still alive (she may have committed suicide or been killed because of her crest), she would spend the rest of her days in isolation. She only fights in ANY route because being alongside you gave her a bit of self-confidence.

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I think they (the black eagles) will all side with Edelgard. Even Ferdinand. Ferdinand is not particularly fond of his father but is still upset having him removed from office by Edelgard. That said, Edelgard is openly favors Ferdinand because he is a fantastic general and she believes in Meritocracy above all else. While Ferdinand finds Edelgards path troubling he is willing to place his faith in her and that her vision of the world will be just. This is all just from what is said by each during Edelgard's route.

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4 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

I don't see Marianne wishing to fight the church of Seiros. She seems extremely devoted to the goddess. 

Yet, Edelgard’s War is against the church itself, not the Seiros Religion—imagine a war on the Catholic Church, but not on the Christian religion as a whole. On BE-E, a recruited Marianne will talk about how she still believes fervently in the goddess, despite the war at hand.

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My thoughts:

Black Eagles: 

Ferdinand: No. Edelgard strips his family of power and as a result, his father is boned. Really. Boned. Even though Ferdie himself is a bit naive to inner political matters, this would cross a line and he would want to see her defeated. 

Dorothea: Debatable, considering despite her hatred for the nobility, war is not something shes ok with. But its more likely she would stick with Edelgard. 

Petra: Lmao no. She is not an idiot, and knows damn well shes nothing more than a hostage. Edelgard's defeat would mean Brigid independence and safety. The only way she would side with the Empire is to make sure Brigid isnt invaded again. 

Linhardt: This guy wants to be a crest scholar. Its his ambition next to sleeping. Edelgard wants to crush that system. I cant see Linhardt being totally ok with that. 

Bernadetta: No. She doesn't really have any real loyalty to her father and house. She'd want to join Byleth regardless. 

Caspar: Yeah he would stay. He is very proud of being of house Bergleiz. He would believe Edelgard's cause is right and just. 

Hubert: Serves Edelgard without question. 

Blue Lions

Felix: lol no. He may have beefs with Dimitri and his own dad, but those are more personal than political. He finds Edelgard's justifications rather foul. 

Ingrid: Nope. Her country and the future of her house mean a lot to her. 

Sylvain: Despite his hatred of the system, i find it unlikely that he'd betray his best friends in the whole world. 

Ashe: I feel like he would join Claude, simply to find out why Lonato was a patsy. Maybe he wouldnt side with the church right away, but the Empire? Nah. 

Annette: Hard no. She loves her country, begs for her father to return to her life, and would find Edelgard's cause repugnant. 

Mercedes: Very no. She's extremely pious and the Empire's use of the Death Knight really upsets her. 

Golden Deer

Hilda: Nope. She's actually quite loyal to her brother, Claude, and the whole Alliance. 

Marianne: No. She may resent her crest, but shes a firm believer of the Church of Seiros. She even questions if turning on the church is even forgivable if you poach her in BE. 

Lysithea: Maybe, only to smash the crest system  She and Edelgard both had been experimented on, so she may find common ground there. But since Edelgard works with the Agarthans, im not too sure Lysithea would be kosher with that.

Ignatz: While he isnt noble, he would not see the point of what the Empire is trying to do  plus, he is a believer in the church  

Raphael: He already lost his parents, hes not about to turn his back on his little sis  so no.

Lorenz: He goes where Glouster is concerned. If his father sides with the Empire, so will he. 

Leonie: Devoted to Jeralt as she is, she would blame Edelgard for everything that happened to him. 

Church of Seiros: 

Cyril: Hes literally Rhea's Pomeranian  

Catherine: is literally Rhea's doberman 

Shamir: She'd join the Empire if the price was right  

Gilbert: Hes actually loyal to the Kingdom so no  hell, he wont even join you on church route.

Hanneman: I find it difficult that a crest scholar would be down with destroying crests. He does have some fondness for the Empire as his former home, however.....

Manuela: Maybe, simply to ensure the safety of her opera squad. 

Seteth: He would never turn his back on his family. He clings tenaciously to what he has left. 

Flayn: Also would not betray her family. She bolts in BE anyway. 

I honestly feel that a lot of moral mental gymnastics need to be done in order to justify siding with Edelgard for a huge amount of characters.

 

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