Jump to content
HeartTranquil

Is Edelgard responsible for *Spoiler's* death

Recommended Posts

Depends on your interpretation. 

Spoiler

While she may be allying herself with TWSITD, she doesn’t control all their actions and what they do, including Kronya/Monica choosing to stab him for ruining her little experiment. Granted there’s also the argument that because Edelgard was working with them and likely giving them access to information regarding the monastery to create discord, one could argue that she was an item that facilitated the events that led up to Jeralt getting killed and is thereby equally responsible in his death.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes and no.

Edelgard's hatred for the Church of Seiros and her ambitions to topple the system led her to take some rather drastic measures. The only way she could reasonably see her goal through was to join forces with a group who also harboured ill will towards the church, AKA

Spoiler

'those who slither in the dark' (Monica/Kronya, Tomas/Thales, Death Knight).

Though their morals are different, their goals were the same. An enemy of an enemy is a friend.

I believe that Edelgard was involved, but not directly responsible. She acted as an enabler to a dangerous cult so she could orchestrate her plans of overthrowing the church and reforming Fodlan's broken class system.

Spoiler

Had 'the Flame Emperor' not given power and free reign to Thales, Konya and the Death Knight, Jeralt's death probably wouldn't have happened, or would have been preventable. The Flame Emperor even states that they were opposed to the killing of innocents (ironic though since Edel eventually became blinded by her goals and plunged an entire continent into a bloody 5-year war where many innocents were definitely killed). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, semolinaro said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Had 'the Flame Emperor' not given power and free reign to Thales, Konya and the Death Knight, Jeralt's death probably wouldn't have happened, or would have been preventable. The Flame Emperor even states that they were opposed to the killing of innocents (ironic though since Edel eventually became blinded by her goals and plunged an entire continent into a bloody 5-year war where many innocents were definitely killed). 

 

Spoiler

unless you go her route then byleth is able to keep her true to her self instead of running wild

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mean she literaly smuggled his killer into monastery and provided her with cover. Even if Edie didn't give direct order with, she is responsible for that all the same.

Edited by Tenzen12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so i guess one way of looking at it, is Edelgard is not really responsible, and she really didnt exepct this would happen

does she in anyway apologize for this???? because if she does not, and then you S rank her, this would be the ultimate heresy/backstab to your (mc's) own bloodline.

Edited by HeartTranquil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In her route she claims she has nothing to do, but I always found it hard to believe.

She and death knight were the one planting Monica in your class, then she had so many secret meetings that even her other classmates start to suspecting her.

She's at the best an associated to the murder, the worst actually one of the planner.

 

Quote

she does not, and then you S rank her, this would be the ultimate heresy/backstab to your (mc's) own bloodline.

Well, Edelgard's path is also technically backstabbing Sothis by helping TWIST to destroy her family and arguably herself.

Edited by Timlugia

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my mind, Edelgard tried to discourage Kronya from killing Jeralt, due to a lack of motive. However, I also haven't reached past chapter 12, so she may very have had a reason to want so revealed later on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have mixed feelings. While I don’t hold her responsible

Spoiler

Her reactions and harsh words to Byleth after Jeralts death seem to be cruel, considering that she had even a small part to do with it. It feels callous that she doesn’t show any empathy. Yelling at Kronya doesn’t make up for that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the thing that really kills me. I mean, I know she has her reasons and all that, but the truth is, yes.

She is responsible for this. And not just him, there are other deaths, some of which she is directly responsible, some of which she is indirectly responsible.

I just find it weird the extent to which people are willing to gloss over this, because, if it weren’t for deus ex machine, you would have gone too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

This is the thing that really kills me. I mean, I know she has her reasons and all that, but the truth is, yes.

She is responsible for this. And not just him, there are other deaths, some of which she is directly responsible, some of which she is indirectly responsible.

I just find it weird the extent to which people are willing to gloss over this, because, if it weren’t for deus ex machine, you would have gone too.

ends justify the means. why is Walter White (of Breaking Bad) such a popular character? Edelgard is a villain we all love to root for if you side with her. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, bufkus said:

ends justify the means. why is Walter White (of Breaking Bad) such a popular character? Edelgard is a villain we all love to root for if you side with her. 

Exactly. That's a really good comparison!

She's compelling, and I find her fascinating. That said, she is definitely evil, all told.

Spoiler

What's interesting is that she immediately tries to kill you afterwards. Remember that speech she gave you immediately afterwards, about how you have to move forward and stuff? Looking back, the only reason she did that was so that she could convince you to ignore Rhea's warnings and go after Solon, so that he would be able to kill you in the forest. If you had just stayed in your room moping, you wouldn't have heard about him. I loved how even Hubert wasn't aware it was a trap. When she's like, "Oh, by the way guys, this is a trap." Hubert is totally caught off guard. He's like, "wait, what?"

And this plan almost worked. Unfortunately for her, you went all super sayain and broke out, but she nearly got you... well, sort of killed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh boy...

There's no indication that Edelgard was responsible, she doesn't control TWSIND, it's shown multiple times, it's pretty clear from the start that the alliances is pretty loose.

2 hours ago, Brimney said:

I have mixed feelings. While I don’t hold her responsible

  Hide contents

Her reactions and harsh words to Byleth after Jeralts death seem to be cruel, considering that she had even a small part to do with it. It feels callous that she doesn’t show any empathy. Yelling at Kronya doesn’t make up for that.

 

I agree, at first I was like 'excuse me ?' but in insight, it feels more like she was into 'yeah, you should hate and kill those bastard', with a hidden undertone of 'me too'.

It's pretty clear from the start that she really like Byleth to the point where it's shown and said that she derails her plans just for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

Oh boy...

There's no indication that Edelgard was responsible, she doesn't control TWSIND, it's shown multiple times, it's pretty clear from the start that the alliances is pretty loose.

I agree, at first I was like 'excuse me ?' but in insight, it feels more like she was into 'yeah, you should hate and kill those bastard', with a hidden undertone of 'me too'.

It's pretty clear from the start that she really like Byleth to the point where it's shown and said that she derails her plans just for them.

Again how the hell, knowingly smuggling killer into monastery doesn't make her responsible for action of said killer? If she can't control her she shouldn't have her come in first place. That's like saying drunken driver is not responsible for running over people or letting hungry lion out of cage.

 

 

Edited by Tenzen12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Again how the hell, knowingly smuggling killer into monastery doesn't make her responsible for action of said killer? If she can't control her she shouldn't have her come in first place. That's like saying drunken driver is not responsible for running over people or letting hungry lion out of cage.

 

 

And I agree, it does, but only to an extent. Like I said, the alliance was loose, she doesn't control them and they doesn't control her.
She is responsible, but only to an extent and nothing but an extent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She has an indirect responsibility. She didn't want Jeralt to die because she doesn't know Jeralt's stance, and she would potentially wants him in the future because Byleth is in her PoV a monster fighter, so daddy has to be something of a monster too right, but TWSITD is twisted hehe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The game makes it abundantly clear that Edelgard does not like TWSITD. At one point before the reveal you're asked if you think that TSWITD and the Flame Emperor have the same goal. Selecting "Yes" lowers your support with Edelgard while saying "No" raises it.

So is Edelgard responsible for Jeralt's death? I'd say indirectly at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, B.Leu said:

And I agree, it does, but only to an extent. Like I said, the alliance was loose, she doesn't control them and they doesn't control her.
She is responsible, but only to an extent and nothing but an extent.

Well, she also brought the students in to the monastery (the ones that turn into the beasts) And of course, as has already been mentioned, she also brought Kronya in to the monastery, and helped hide her. Which, honestly, what did she think Kronya was going to do? Not kill Jeralt, Alois, or any of the other knights who got in the way? I mean, I'd have to look through the dialogue, but I believe that was the point of that operation. So... I mean, I don't see where the indirectly part comes in. I feel like, if you drive someone to a house to kill someone, and you know what they are doing, by helping them do it, you are taking positive action, and are therefore responsible.

To quote Terry Pratchett: "If you throw something into the air, don't you have to worry about where it bounces?"

Edited by dragonlordsd

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is why I said 'Oh boy', there is going to be a 'Eldi did nothing wrong' camp who are going to say that she is pure and perfect and all and that everything she did was totally not morally ambiguous, and a 'Eldi is Satan incarnate plan' who are going to say that everythng that happened is her fault and pretend that everything is perfect in the world and that she had no reason to do what she did. Destroying and ignoring the gray and gray morality of the entire game.
 

19 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Well, she also brought the students in to the monastery (the ones that turn into the beasts) And of course, as has already been mentioned, she also brought Kronya in to the monastery, and helped hide her. Which, honestly, what did she think Kronya was going to do? Not kill Jeralt, Alois, or any of the other knights who got in the way? I mean, I'd have to look through the dialogue, but I believe that was the point of that operation. So... I mean, I don't see where the indirectly part comes in. I feel like, if you drive someone to a house to kill someone, and you know what they are doing, by helping them do it, you are taking positive action, and are therefore responsible.

To quote Terry Pratchett: "If you throw something into the air, don't you have to worry about where it bounces?"

Not killing Jeralt would actually be actually a fair assumption from her part yes.

"What a great and spendid idea ! Let's kill Jeralt, the strongest knight in the world ! Who is also the father of the new mysterious teacher who possess a mysterious Crest, who also possess the Sword of The Creator. Who is also the crush of I, Eldegard, that I also want them to possibly join me. Yes, this plan is so perfect, there is no way or form it would bite me or us in the ass."

...Please, you guys cannot be serious. Yes. Responsible. Indirectly. To an extent.
Or I'm stupid and Eldegard is that stupid. We know Kronya is. Or for all we know, it was probably TWDIND atempt at screwing her over, or I dunno.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only unlocked cage of hungry lion in middle of sheeps. It's not my fault they got attacked. Well if  you really insist I might be indirectly responsible, but because  I couldn't know something like that will happen it's practically not my fault!

Edited by Tenzen12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...I also knew the moment bad comparisons were done, things were going south, I was right.
Does a lion can think logically like a human can ? Can you trust it to do something smart ? Can you fully expect to have an alliance with it ? Is a lion not a wild animal ? No. It doesn't make sense guys. Unless I'm wrong, in which case explain to me, because I'll be really happy to have a lion as a human-like friend. 😛

Although I guess I'm not perfect, since it actually seems that some part of the plot is up to interpretation... but you guys aren't helping either by doing whatever you are doing.

Edited by B.Leu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

...I also knew the moment bad comparisons were done, things were going south, I was right.
Does a lion can think logically like a human can ? Can you trust it to do something smart ? Can you fully expect to have an alliance with it ? Is a lion not a wild animal ? No. It doesn't make sense guys. Unless I'm wrong, in which case explain to me, because I'll be really happy to have a lion as a human-like friend. 😛

Although I guess I'm not perfect, since it actually seems that some part of the plot is up to interpretation... but you guys aren't helping either by doing whatever you are doing.

Well, as you said, a LOT of it is interpretation, which is why it's worth discussing. I can't DEFINITELY say you're wrong, as there isn't explicit dialogue one way or the other, so both view points can be valid.

That said, I think it might be a good idea for you to take a step back and reexamine your own interpretation/reading of the game.

No offense, just, there's a lot of subjective points in your counterpoint, and sarcastic dismissal doesn't really help you seem like the reasonable one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, B.Leu said:

...I also knew the moment bad comparisons were done, things were going south, I was right.
Does a lion can think logically like a human can ? Can you trust it to do something smart ? Can you fully expect to have an alliance with it ? Is a lion not a wild animal ? No. It doesn't make sense guys. Unless I'm wrong, in which case explain to me, because I'll be really happy to have a lion as a human-like friend. 😛

Although I guess I'm not perfect, since it actually seems that some part of the plot is up to interpretation... but you guys aren't helping either by doing whatever you are doing.

It was you who said Edie has no control over Kronya, remember? You can make only one of two contradicting excuses. Either Kronya can't be negotiated (in which case she is no different than wild animal), or she is reasonable ally, (in which case you can't say she has nothing to do with Edelgard.)

Anyway once you pick one we continue in discussion.

 

Edited by Tenzen12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...