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What are your thoughts on Edelgard? *SPOILERS*


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Regarding the communication from Edelgard about her situation... Post-Dimitri snapping, he is most clearly not in any shape to listen to things like 'Dude, I was roughly about your age, and barely back in my country after a coup robbed my family of all power. How in the name of the nonexistent Goddess am I supposed to have planned that Duscor shit?'. By the time he is snapped out of it years later, it is far too late for this sort of communication, there is already far too much blood on thr ground for that.

 

And before... Well, there are people like Lonato and the Western Church not gung-ho about the Central one, and they have had a tendency to get a little executed so far. And she is literally inside the Church's center of power. Bluntly told, speaking too much about her opinions, issues etc, all of them hinting at her hostility at the Church and the system it enforces through (fabricated) divine mandate... Not a good idea in a place where she is surrounded by Seiros Knights and students who are all in the process of being shaped into reverence towards the Church (control the education, and you control the people). Yes, she should have tried to talk more to people around her, but it is nonehteless quite hard to do in the place where you are the most llikely to run into Church loyalist, like people from a place literally called 'Holy Kingdom'. And it only takes one wrong choice for all these knights around you to become enemies... Oh, and she has to juggle this with taking back contorl of the Empire where the power is for now centered around the ministers. Pretty sure than breaking their little alliance and take back a throne with actual power wasn't a free action.

 

Just like with Micaiah which would have to take into consideration Senate spies like the envoys tagging around her troops at a minimum, Edlegard's margin of maneuver is a little more narrow than it looks like.

 

(Much less excuses with not talking to Claude and his more skeptical opinion though, unless she feared he would backstab and out her to cover his own tracks.)

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17 minutes ago, Nickdos said:

Apparently being slaves to another race is ok and rebellion is bad, so Edelgard that sought to liberate humanity is "evil".

I never said the church and others were any less evil - I said they are all deserving the title of being evil. History is written to highlight the good of the victors, doesn’t make the things that war bring about any less horrific. I even agreed that she probably took the most drastic but most effective way to bring about change, but it doesn’t mean I agree with her actions nor do I think they were the right ones. 

How is your point any different than how Micaiah is viewed by the fans? She literally tried to liberate and free her country, but she is seen as “evil” because she fought against Ike. In my opinion, her reasoning vs Ike&co were a lot more palatable than Edelgard’s reasoning. Edelgard didn’t even try for any alternative whereas Micaiah actively looked and was really pigeon held into a corner. Instead, Edelgard STARTED the chaos when there was nothing to suggest that it was in such dire need that she needed to act ASAP and go completely nuclear.  

I just said the means and attitude Edelgard went about achieving her goals calls into question her own morality that her fans so preaches as to be better than those of the people she is fighting. 

Do you really honestly believe that if this was real life, Edelgard’s actions were the way to go? No discussion, no explanation to anyone really, just conquest? 

Also to the comment above, I think the fact that Dimitri offered her a chance at redemption while she chose to ignore it, shows that SHE was the one too far gone, not him. I honestly believe that she is just stubborn and refused to talk to anyone else because she truly believes what she is doing is right, regardless of the means, more so than the limitations in her position. She refuses to surrender and change her ideals in ANY of the routes...just goes to show you how caught up in her own mind she really was.  If she even opened her eyes and looked around, she would see that there were many students sympathetic to her plight, but she basically had tunnel vision. 

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14 minutes ago, MessengerIris said:

I never said the church and others were any less evil - I said they are all deserving the title of being evil. History is written to highlight the good of the victors, doesn’t make the things that war bring about any less horrific. I even agreed that she probably took the most drastic but most effective way to bring about change, but it doesn’t mean I agree with her actions nor do I think they were the right ones. 

I just said the means and attitude Edelgard went about achieving her goals calls into question her own morality that she so preaches as to be better than those of the people she is fighting. 

Do you really honestly believe that if this was real life, Edelgard’s actions were the way to go? No discussion, no explanation to anyone really, just conquest? 

Also to the comment above, I think the fact that Dimitri offered her a chance at redemption while she chose to ignore it, shows that SHE was the one too far gone, not him. I honestly believe that she is just stubborn and refused to talk to anyone else because she truly believes what she is doing is right, regardless of the means, more so than the limitations in her position. She refuses to surrender and change her ideals in ANY of the routes...just goes to show you how caught up in her own mind she really was.  

I see her rejection of Dmitri's offer more like a Suicide by Cop rather than rejecting his offer of forgiveness. 

Think about it, she's sacrificed everything including her morality and the lives of countless innocents that have died due to her starting a war and she's earned with nothing but bitter defeat at the end. Add to how her crest experimentations have left her with no future but an early death due to a limited lifespan and no wonder she decided to just die at Dmitri's hands instead.

 

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2 minutes ago, Spatha said:

I see her rejection of Dmitri's offer more like a Suicide by Cop rather than rejecting his offer of forgiveness. 

Think about it, she's sacrificed everything including her morality and the lives of countless innocents that have died due to her starting a war and she's earned with nothing but bitter defeat at the end. Add to how her crest experimentations have left her with no future but an early death due to a limited lifespan and no wonder decided to just die at Dmitri's hands instead.

 

I agree. In all routes, I think she wanted to die thinking she was correct in the end, but I just feel like that just reinforces the delusion she has created for herself as the world’s savior. 

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39 minutes ago, MessengerIris said:

How is your point any different than how Micaiah is viewed by the fans? She literally tried to liberate and free her country, but she is seen as “evil” because she fought against Ike. In my opinion, her reasoning vs Ike&co were a lot more palatable than Edelgard’s reasoning. Edelgard didn’t even try for any alternative whereas Micaiah actively looked and was really pigeon held into a corner. Instead, Edelgard STARTED the chaos when there was nothing to suggest that it was in such dire need that she needed to act ASAP and go completely nuclear.  

Micaiah is a weird one, in that there is technically no grounding for her beliefs, other than compassion. Her danger is more immediate (as you said, Daein was being invaded, so she had to do something), but her reasons for fighting weren't as personal or as strong as Edelgard's.

It's a little difficult to address this, because I'm not totally sure how much you've learned about the plot of three houses, and I don't want to spoil things you haven't seen yet, but whereas Micaiah's motivations are her choice (she considers herself part of Daein and responsible for them), Edelgard's motivations are more personal: 

Spoiler

Years of torture and experimentation, the murder of her sibilings and parents, her shortened lifespan, her constant suffering, etc., etc.

Far less altruistic, but far more... understandable?

For Edelgard, it's not as much about what's good for the world. Her whole "liberate the world" ideology may be what she says, but to me it really comes off as more personal, which is what makes her so interesting.

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7 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Micaiah is a weird one, in that there is technically no grounding for her beliefs, other than compassion. Her danger is more immediate (as you said, Daein was being invaded, so she had to do something), but her reasons for fighting weren't as personal or as strong as Edelgard's.

It's a little difficult to address this, because I'm not totally sure how much you've learned about the plot of three houses, and I don't want to spoil things you haven't seen yet, but whereas Micaiah's motivations are her choice (she considers herself part of Daein and responsible for them), Edelgard's motivations are more personal: 

  Hide contents

Years of torture and experimentation, the murder of her sibilings and parents, her shortened lifespan, her constant suffering, etc., etc.

Far less altruistic, but far more... understandable?

Yeah I know most of the plot and what Edelgard endured. My point is that sympathy doesn’t detract from who she was. I think my problem is the fans who act as if she can do no wrong. No matter how you slice it, a lot of her actions were selfish, emotionally-driven, and not made with the best interest of the populace at heart, but people act as if she was a self sacrificing savior who had the guts to pull the trigger and that all her actions are justifiable because the end result was meant to be a good one, at least that what we are led to believe. 

Also, I see no reason the extremes in the disparity in sympathy for characters - for Micaiah to be so hated but Edelgard to be so celebrated. Both were very complex character who had to make very hard choices, yet one of them is lauded as a sympathetic hero and the other is a villain because she went against the fan favorite. If Edelgard wasn’t the fan favourite, often for reasonings like being a romanceable female lead, would she be this celebrated? 

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1 minute ago, MessengerIris said:

Yeah I know most of the plot and what Edelgard endured. My point is that sympathy doesn’t detract from who she was. I think my problem is the fans who act as if she can do no wrong. No matter how you slice it, a lot of her actions were emotionally-driven and not made with the best interest of the populace at heart, but people act as if she was a self sacrificing savior who had the guts to pull the trigger and that all her actions are justifiable because the end result was meant to be a good one, at least that what we are led to believe. 

Also, I see no reason for Micaiah to be more hated but Edelgard to be so celebrated. Both were very complex character who had to make hard choices, yet one of them is lauded as a sympathetic hero and the other is a villain because she went against the fan favorite. If Edelgard wasn’t the fan favourite, often for reasonings like being a romanceable female lead, would she be this celebrated? 

Excellent question. And to be honest, I'm not sure.

There definitely is a camp of people (both male and female, in this case!) who have the "my waifu is perfect, everyone else is wrong" thing going. But I don't think they're the majority.

That said, I think there are two things the sway people more to her side than Micaiah:

1. Justified Anti-Daein bias - In POR, we see that Daein very clearly started the war. They attacked for no reason than Ashnard being evil, and we got to see the horror he inflicted. To then see people like Micaiah supporting such a monster, well, it's a bit of a slap in the face. Plus Daein is super racist, which Micaiah never addresses or excuses. So, most players will start out biased against her; also not helping matters for her is Ike's popularity.

2. Less Strong Convictions - As I brought up, for Micaiah, there's no real personal stake in the war. She feels like she has to do something, but pretty much none of her allies, be it Sothe, Tormod, Volug, etc. really have any reason to be there other than to support her. We also learn that she's actually from Begnion later and is fighting her own sister, so that further weakens her position.

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33 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Excellent question. And to be honest, I'm not sure.

There definitely is a camp of people (both male and female, in this case!) who have the "my waifu is perfect, everyone else is wrong" thing going. But I don't think they're the majority.

That said, I think there are two things the sway people more to her side than Micaiah:

1. Justified Anti-Daein bias - In POR, we see that Daein very clearly started the war. They attacked for no reason than Ashnard being evil, and we got to see the horror he inflicted. To then see people like Micaiah supporting such a monster, well, it's a bit of a slap in the face. Plus Daein is super racist, which Micaiah never addresses or excuses. So, most players will start out biased against her; also not helping matters for her is Ike's popularity.

2. Less Strong Convictions - As I brought up, for Micaiah, there's no real personal stake in the war. She feels like she has to do something, but pretty much none of her allies, be it Sothe, Tormod, Volug, etc. really have any reason to be there other than to support her. We also learn that she's actually from Begnion later and is fighting her own sister, so that further weakens her position.

1. Micaiah didn’t support Ashnard. She supported the Daein people, who mostly were innocent to the travesties that Ashnard committed and his goals. Yes, they were racist, not going to deny that. I’m not going to deny that she was dumb for being silent - I accuse Edelgard of the same flaw, but Micaiah never verbally suggested to the players, who so vehemently hate her, that she supports Ashnard or agreed with his actions. To her, Ike IS the villain - he destroyed the country she loved and Begnion WAS the villain for what they did during the occupation. Why should she feel any sympathy towards either Ike or Begnion (or by extension Sanaki who could have just been as equally responsible Daein’s treatment for all Micaiah knew)? I just can’t wrap my mind around how biased people are in games where you can romance characters - she had every reason to hate Ike/Begnion but she is touted like the devil. We even SAW their point of view but Daein can burn, right?  Just like how in this game, Dimitri had a lot of good reasons for hating Edelgard. Actually, most of the casts did - she started a WAR that put all of their families lives at stake for no reason made aware to them. But yet, people always defend Edelgard as “it was for the greater good.” The greater good for WHO exactly? No one knew what she was intended, and A LOT of what she did seemed self serving but passed off as “liberating the continent” when she had a strong personal stake in the gains of defeating the church and re-uniting the Empire. 

2. She didn’t even know Sanaki was her sister when she was fighting them, seems like a moot point. She had people she loved and knew who she had to protect. Sanaki/Ike/co were literally nobodies who destroyed the people and country she loved. She did what she did out of love and compassion for her nation, how is that not a noble cause? Yet, to many, it is “wrong” whereas Edelgard was in the “right.”

My whole argument stems from the fact that I think Edelgard is not a good person, and people should stop defending her actions as self-sacrificial and necessary (how does one person get the authority to make any decision like that?). I concede that she was needed for the progression of the story, never argued otherwise at any point (I even said I can understand why she is well liked as a villain). She was a well written villain, but she is at best an anti-hero and at worse, the same level of villainy as the church. 

Also, Tenzen12 basically proved my point about Micaiah being hated. I honestly liked Micaiah because of her compassion and ability to make hard choices, still thought she was incredibly dumb at certain points, but not the point. She didn’t try to put up a pretense that she was doing this for anyone besides herself - she cared about Daein and gtfo the rest of the continent. 

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25 minutes ago, dragonlordsd said:

Excellent question. And to be honest, I'm not sure.

There definitely is a camp of people (both male and female, in this case!) who have the "my waifu is perfect, everyone else is wrong" thing going. But I don't think they're the majority.

Not me, I like her because she's one of the most interesting characters that IS has done in recent times, she can be seen as both a hero and a villain and a protagonist and an antagonist yet she's quite the tragic figure.

She's gone way overboard regarding her methods and the death toll she directly or indirectly creates is high but going by her backstory and how personality is shaped by it, it makes sense why she thinks she's justified in her actions and why she'd do it in the first place. She basically rivals Arvis in how tragic she is.

The only problem with her character is that her utterly ruthless actions and decisions end of up biting her in the ass.

At worst, she's basically a well-intentioned pawn for the Those Who Slither in the Dark. 

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6 hours ago, MessengerIris said:

BL player here. I hate her. 

I just don’t understand how anyone can defend her as being a “good person.” I have read part of her story spoilers. 

I can understand liking her because she is complex or a well-written villain, but no matter how you slice it, having a tragic backstory and good motivation did not justify the means to which she went about achieving her ambition. If she was a male character that was not the first promoted character of the game, I find it highly unlikely that she would have the degree of fan support she currently has. 

She basically: 

1. Went nuclear with her plan. Did not even attempt at diplomacy - I feel like both had a high chance of agreeing with her stance, Dimitri out of support/love and Claude out of his own suspicion of the church. Instead, she tries to kill off both Dimitri/Claude in the beginning. I mean, if things didn’t work out, the option to conquer was always still there, but nope, she did not even try to let other people know what was going on. Because of this, it felt like her actions were based off of more than just destroying the church, it felt like she wanted to re-unite the Empire, but sells it as if she is doing the people a service by starting a war to “save them.” 

2. Caught up in her own arrogance - it was either her way or the highway. Although she gave people a chance of surrendering, if you resisted her or tried to reason with her, you were as good as dead. A true sign of a tyrant/conquerer in my opinion. Even after Dimitri gives her a chance in the end for redemption, she is so far gone that she rather die and uses the dagger he gave her out of love to encourage him to kill her. Geez. 

3. Acts like an innocent bystander to all the travesty committed by TWSITD. I think she is at least somewhat cupable to some of the things they’ve done. Even if she hates working with them, that doesn’t stop her from giving them the means to achieve their goals (letting them access into the school and intel, acts as a silent bystander while they are there turning people into rampaging monsters etc.), and she never attempts to get in the way of their plans or reigns them in, only gives them her displeasure AFTER they commit the act. I understand that she did not cause Dimitri’s family tragedy, but she didn’t even try to explain anything to Dimitri besides “I wasn’t involved” - I feel like his descent to murdeous madness is at least justified considering the misinformation, yet people act as if Dimitri is anywhere near her level of evil post-time skip just because he is a murderer. I think at least he is aware of who he is, unlike those who prattle on about “doing it for the general populace” he understands that war is messed up and even good intentions can make you a villain.  

4. Her goals were selfish. She was willing to plunge the entire innocent and unaware continent into a war, which imo seemed much worse than the alternative of just letting the status quo continue (but that’s completely personal opinion). She acts as if she is doing it for the greater good but it felt more like out of her personal grudge of losing control of “her” Empire and her personal history with Crests (which is more fair of a reason, it was a messed up system).  I don’t even mind that her goals were selfish, but the way she acted about them, like she was magnanimous enough to do it it for the people, was what pissed me off. 

I will play her route, probably last, but I find unlikely for my opinion to change much. I can agree she brought a lot more complexity to the game with her character, but to sell her as a “good person” or “better than Rhea” when she did a lot of questionably evil things is just too much for me.  

I think my main gripe with her was more her attitude, she thought she was a lot better of a person than what she really was - and people applaud her for it, as if her “ends justify the means” attitude would be commendable, if this was real life. 

Did she change the world for the better? Probably. But my argument was more that there were other ways she could have gone about it that wasn’t as terrible. What happened to Dimitri because of her actions was just horrendous and selfish because of all the love he gave her, yet people somehow bash Dimitri for having an “overreaction.”

If this was the real world, besides people of her nation, I think most people would look unfavourably upon her actions. 

 

1. Claude has his own desires. He mentioned how he had his own plans for Fodlan if you spared him in the BE route and I could never imagine Dimitri going against the church. He might be willing to support reforms but he would never fully go against it. At no point did I get the impression that Edelgard wants to become her own Emperor of sorts so I really don't think it's about re-uniting the empire. Her experiences that she had when she was younger are emotionally far more important than a dream to become the ruler of Fodlan. Becoming the ruler of Fodlan was only a means to an end, to fix the things she finds broken.

2. You're right but that's what I like about her. I really liked the last scene in the BL route because of that.

3. I already more or less addressed this in my post about how she's essentially a hostage from the TWSITD. I don't believe she has enough power to prevent some of the things TWSITD did pre timeskip, perhaps after she has conquered Fodlan but not before. As for Dimitri's misunderstanding. I like Dimitri, but I honestly never understood why he assumed a 10 year old Edelgard was involved in the Duscur Tragedy. I mean Edelgard is talented in a lot of things but not that talented that she can pull that off as a kid.

4. How can her goals be selfish if she wants to prevent more suffering by breaking the nobility and crest system? She even steps down as Emperor in most endings and appoints a successor, a selfish person would want to keep the throne for themselves.

3 hours ago, MessengerIris said:

People give Micaiah all this crap for her actions in her game yet somehow Edelgard gets praise for her courage for the same crap. 

This assumes that the people who do this are the same people. I'm sure there's people people who dislike Edelgard for those reasons but don't dislike Micaiah or people who like both (me).

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4 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

At no point did I get the impression that Edelgard wants to become her own Emperor of sorts so I really don't think it's about re-uniting the empire. Her experiences that she had when she was younger are emotionally far more important than a dream to become the ruler of Fodlan. Becoming the ruler of Fodlan was only a means to an end, to fix the things she finds broken.

She admits early on in her prologue that her empire has seen better-days and she regards the other two kingdoms as pale offshoots.

She may have a well-intentioned goal but the above statement she makes also gives her rather selfish goal in addition.

c1c6eeb.png

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1 minute ago, Spatha said:

She admits early on in her prologue that her empire has seen better-days and she regards the other two kingdoms as pale offshoots.

She may have a well-intentioned goal but the above statement she makes also gives her rather selfish goal in addition.

*image*

There's nothing selfish about admitting that your country isn't doing great and wanting to improve your country. My point was that repairing the empire to its former glory was in no way her primary goal.

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11 hours ago, Tenzen12 said:

I don't see why she wouldn't, all her creations that failed seems to be allowed live as they pleased, if she had problem with time she would just rip them instantly after it became clear Sothis can't manifest and start anew. 

And it's not like it's first case Rhea saved someones live without profit on mind. She might be willing sacrifice Byleth without as much as winking, but she is pretty consistent with her better side otherwise. 

 

They are allowed to live ? They are ? I don't remember about it, is it specified ?
... How does one take a crest anyways ?

Your second post... doesn't really help, since lives, that she created, are on the line. She's seemingly up with Those who poop in the dark in term of bad things.
Because we don't know jack about her creations, if they are really creation, or just give birth. And discarded like trash or just freed like a person. It's kind of freaky in a way.
 

1 hour ago, Nickdos said:

Apparently being slaves to another race is ok and rebellion is bad, so Edelgard that sought to liberate humanity is "evil".

Well it's not just that, but there's a bit of that too.
I mean, the continent is under Rhea/Seiros' thumb, it's more like it 'help' Edelgard in her justification.
 

45 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

Eldegard is good villain. Micaiah terrible wannabe hero. No wonder Edie is more popular 

Oof, savage !
Yup. I'm not having any illusions about Edelgard, she is pretty stuck up, will only have her way... she have many things that made her unlikeable. That's one of the very thing I love about her.
It's kind of funny and ironic, because she share many traits with Rhea.

Everyone is destined to fail and/or turn bad. Byleth being there help them and their visions of the future being 'good'.
Except maybe Claude, but he too have his moment of... 'WTF are you doing Claude ?'.

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4 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

There's nothing selfish about admitting that your country isn't doing great and wanting to improve your country. My point was that repairing the empire to its former glory was in no way her primary goal.

Never said it was her primary goal. I just said she had a lot to gain from her actions, and at least some of those gain contributed to her ultimate decisions and what she felt was the best course of action. Diplomacy would ultimately make it hard for her to re-unite the Empire. I just don’t understand why nobody was consulted (are you telling me NO ONE in this world could provide any help to Edelgard, was she really that limited in her resources?), even Micaiah could talk to her close retainers for options, yet Edelgard assumes the position of her against the world. Conquering is always an option but why is it the FIRST option? 

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6 minutes ago, MessengerIris said:

Never said it was her primary goal. I just said she had a lot to gain from her actions, and at least some of those gain contributed to her ultimate decisions and what she felt was the best course of action. Diplomacy would ultimately make it hard for her to re-unite the Empire. I just don’t understand why nobody was consulted. Conquering is always an option but why is it the FIRST option? 

Ah, gotcha, my mistake.

Well, I believe that she simply didn't believe that either Dimitri or Claude (even Byleth since he has to push himself on her route) would be willing to as far as her for her ideals and stand by her. Which is a flawed way of thinking sure but understandable from her character and really there's only one timeline where she doesn't get punished for her way of thinking.

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2 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Ah, gotcha, my mistake.

Well, my presumption here is that she simply didn't believe that either Dimitri or Claude (even Byleth since he has to push himself on her route) would be willing to as far as her for her ideals and stand by her. Which is a flawed way of thinking sure but understandable from her character and really there's only one timeline where she doesn't get punished for her way of thinking.

Her greatest downfall was her arrogance and entitlement. She thought she was in control of the situation and knew what was going on, but I think she was just as lost as the rest of the cast when it comes to the TWSITD’s manipulation. She definitely let emotions rule her decision making. 

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Just now, MessengerIris said:

Her greatest downfall was her arrogance and entitlement. She thought she was in control of the situation and knew what was going on, but I think she was just as lost as the rest of the cast when it comes to the TWSITD’s manipulation. 

No denying that. 

At least she realizes the kind of danger they pose and deal with them after the ending.

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47 minutes ago, B.Leu said:

They are allowed to live ? They are ? I don't remember about it, is it specified ?
... How does one take a crest anyways ?

Your second post... doesn't really help, since lives, that she created, are on the line. She's seemingly up with Those who poop in the dark in term of bad things.
Because we don't know jack about her creations, if they are really creation, or just give birth. And discarded like trash or just freed like a person. It's kind of freaky in a way.
 

Well it's not just that, but there's a bit of that too.
I mean, the continent is under Rhea/Seiros' thumb, it's more like it 'help' Edelgard in her justification.

Well Byleth mother got happily married and Rhea even respected her dying wish. That certainly doesn't sound like she lacked human dignity. We obviously don't know what happened to her ptecedessors, but I find unlikely there were treated that much differently. 

Also continent being "under her thumb" is gross overstatement. Empire practically divorced itself from her, Western  church is practically independent and Eastern doesn't even have standing army. Rhea don't seem to interfere in internal affairs unless she get proper ratification either. 

 

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Just now, Tenzen12 said:

Well Byleth mother got happily married and Rhea even respected her dying wish.

I mean, Rhea might have had a bit of an ulterior motive for that.

 

I think Edelgard is best summed up with "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." How far she goes down that road depends on Byleth's involvement, as the game ain't exactly subtle on how Byleth is Edelgard's morality chain.

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8 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

 

3. I already more or less addressed this in my post about how she's essentially a hostage from the TWSITD. I don't believe she has enough power to prevent some of the things TWSITD did pre timeskip, perhaps after she has conquered Fodlan but not before. As for Dimitri's misunderstanding. I like Dimitri, but I honestly never understood why he assumed a 10 year old Edelgard was involved in the Duscur Tragedy. I mean Edelgard is talented in a lot of things but not that talented that she can pull that off as a kid.

 

Well, by the time he learnt it, he goes through a Rage Breaking Point so terrible and so obvious, it's clear that he isn't listening to anything she would say by that point, and only cares about getting her head on a pike. And by the time he cools off enough to think about it (post timeskip-BL), it is slightly far too late to discuss about it, and besides, the problem is so obvious Dimitri is probably connecting the dots all alone on that front.

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On 8/5/2019 at 11:21 AM, Spatha said:

I'm honestly surprised no one mentioned that her lifespan is shortened due to being forced to wield two crests.

No wonder she's too willing to perform utterly ruthless and even immoral actions, she wants to achieve her goals as fast as possible because she knows she doesn't have enough years left to live. 

Not only she's experienced a horrible childhood in her past, she's denied of a happy future due to said past. No wonder she goes off the deep end in the other routes without Byleth putting her on a leash.

I think the reason no one really brings it up because shortened is so vague, and I don't really know how shortened you can consider it since she runs a war for five years and clearly wasn't rushing to take over the other two kingdoms since her primary offensives don't actually start until after Byleth comes back.

 

20 hours ago, B.Leu said:

One thing that is pretty cool about Edelgard, is that no matter how you look at it, what she did ultimately caused the continent to become better, not matter what side you take. And also thankfully because you're here to say 'Nope'. It's pretty fascinating.

Because you are not going really far if you are trying to tell me that trying to work pacifically 'with the system' would have done much good, because you know, Reah the yandere pope, who is actually the jesus of her religion who pretty much don't care about anything if it's not about her mom.
And as much of a meme this is, crests are indeed a big problem.

Her war does ultimately make the continent become better, at a pretty high cost that may or may not have been necessary and I'd lean towards arguing it was not. My main problem is really just how much of a hypocrite she is at the end of the day though, she's pretty much the same person as Rhea when it comes to their methods. Crush your enemies, love those who do everything you tell them, obsess over Byleth (I guess Sothis in Rhea's case), condone inhumane experiments for the sake of getting what they want. But it's part of what I like about her as a character, people tend to be hypocritical and I think it's fun to have her holier than thou attitude be unjustified because it's better than having her be like "har har har I'm evil" instead. 

As for why I argue her war wasn't the best course of action, it's because the game has a really strong theme about the characters making mistakes, bad decisions, or succumbing to their fatal flaws. The corrector of their fatal flaws that stops them from losing their life because of it ends up being Byleth though, who helps set them on a better path in their respective stories. I don't know Claude's yet, but I understand Rhea repents somewhat on her path and realizes she was wrong, Dimitri recovers from his insanity on his, and Edelgard does not become completely corrupted by power by the end of her route. So it only goes to fit that her decision to declare the war was an incorrect choice because it was made by her fatal flaw, that being a hubris that she has to do everything herself by any means necessary.

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If you’re in this thread you already know there will be spoilers, so I won’t bother spoilering here. Also this got longer than I intended, sorry. For context the only other route I’ve played is Golden Deer. 

I promised myself not to comment here again until after I finished Edelgards route. Even up until chapter 15, the bloodshed and Edelgard working with TWSITD made me wonder how anyone could align with her. It seems consistent, however, that those who did her route first could not imagine siding with the church either, so I pressed on, curious how such a route could cause such a massive difference of opinion in people who played the game. 

Finally, I began to see some more characterization of both Rhea and Edelgard during the beginning of chapter 16, which I’m sure was fine if you played it the first time, but after playing a Golden Deer it felt like a long time of wondering “is all this worth it”?

By the end of chapter 16 Edelgard’s uncle made an appearance as the slippery snake he is. For the first time in the route, I felt that Hubert and Edelgard actually were working against TWSITD and started to feel a bit more compassionate towards their goals. Again, this is two chapters from the end, and if you’ve played a different route before, feels rather late.

Chapter 17 finally sees Rhea being unreasonable. But Dimitri is still not too bad, I really don’t understand Edeglard’s comment on him being obsessed with her. Chapter 18 opens with Edelgard and Arundel continuing the whole ‘I’m using you you know I’m using you I know you know etc.’ Getting kind of old. Edelgard confides in you, you’re the only person who understands her, etc. Also it’s funny seeing Rhea acting as  Daenerys Targaryen after we accused Edelgard of that. 

I also know I made some remarks about people playing Black Eagles to marry Edelgard, but I essentially did the same thing for Hubert, so maybe I’m no better.... 

So, did I finally find out why people who support Edelgard first are so fervent that she did nothing wrong(tm)? Well, the game does make her sympathetic - if that’s the only route you’ve played. Additionally, Rhea is not as obviously evil GD, feel like they kind of had to make her extreme in this route, but now I get why people who play Black Eagles think she’s 100% evil. 

I’m curious to see how people who play Black Eagle then play Blue Lions feel - or vice versa. I can’t say for sure if I’d even give this route a chance had I played Blue Lions first. 

In conclusion, If you dislike Edelgard and you are willing to play the whole story, I would recommend trying Black Eagles. But I do not think anyone who is convinced Edelgard is bad will be convinced otherwise, and will probably give up before the end of the story. 

If you like Edelgard and don’t understand why anyone wouldn’t, or why anyone would support the church, please play literally any other route. It will make a great deal of sense. 

Tl;dr: The route you play first will vastly influence your expectations of Edelgard. I gave Edelgard’s route a chance after playing Golden Deers. Her route is so vastly different from the others that you may not understand the game fully unless you play both her route and another. I believe she as a character is well written. I do not think her route or her decisions are any better than the other routes, though. Rhea only is evil in this route, in Golden Deer you have no indication she is evil. 

Also bitch move locking the s support behind two chapters, IS. At least it was only one for GD. I’m also planning to replay the Golden Deer route again eventually, but I have no desire to play Black Eagle ever again, especially after that final map, Jesus. Also why was I able to refill my battalions before battle on the last two chapters in GD but not BE?

Edited by Brimney
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10 minutes ago, Brimney said:

I’m curious to see how people who play Black Eagle then play Blue Lions feel - or vice versa. I can’t say for sure if I’d even give this route a chance had I played Blue Lions first. 

Since you're curious, someone asked something similar in another thread and this was my answer:

Did BE first and then BL after that. Edelgard is still my favorite lord but Dimitri is a close second. I like them both a lot and while I have to let both characters sink in a bit more I do think that they're both top 10 favorite FE characters material. Hell, I think they might be both my favorite Female/Male FE lord across all FE games.

 

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