What are your thoughts on Edelgard? *SPOILERS*

[Julian Solo]

10 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

It's why I say it's a bit bumbling. Sometimes things don't go to plan, especially if you're rushing. Could have simply been too slow instead of intentionally waiting. Dramatically failing by just a few moments is a well established fiction trope after all. 😛

That was my face throughout the whole war ngl. 

[Eltoshen]

11 hours ago, Julian Solo said:

Only in GD where Dimitri is completely incoherent for no consistent reason. Yeah but Edelgards own mental insanity is shockingly over looked. She starts a world war without enough resources to finish it. Causing it to be prolonged for five years. Claude and Dimitri both find her completely extreme. Only is CF Rhea considered more, so it's why Claude sides with Rhea and Dimitri over her in every other route. 

He's a fucking mess for the majority of his own route. This is well established by the man himself. Literally only comes back to his senses when Dedue comes back.

[Icelerate]

I think Edelgard's character development is underrated. It's often said she's a static character who undergoes no development but I think this is far from the truth.

At the start of the game, Edelgard is willing to murder Claude and Dimitri to make her goals easier. She doesn't show any signs of hesitation or remorse in conspiring to do so. On the other hand, in Crimson Flower, Edelgard is willing to spare Claude and is upset at killing Dimitri despite being far more justified in doing so than before. This shows that Byleth's influence on her after Byleth saves her from Rhea, despite his affiliation with the Church, was able to turn her into a more empathetic person who values human life. This is further shown in the final chapter where Edelgard rushes into the fires of Fhirdiad to rescue the trapped civilians when she could just let them and Rhea's army die before swooping in and finishing off Rhea. Contrast that with the other routes where Edelgard shows no value for civilian life and is willing to install a tyrant like Cornelia to fulfill her own ambitions. On the other hand, she never chooses to ally herself with Cornelia and actively ends her despite antagonizing her uncle in Crimson Flower.

Lastly, at the end of the game, Edelgard says that when humanity stands up for one another, they can overcome whatever challenges they face. Contrast that to part one where Edelgard is too reliant on herself to change the world instead of seek allies which backfires on her unless she's lucky enough to form a bond with Byleth.

All in all, I think Edelgard has one of the most unique character arcs in FE, especially for an FE lord, so it pisses me off when people say she doesn't develop at all.

[Julian Solo]

3 hours ago, Eltoshen said:

He's a fucking mess for the majority of his own route. This is well established by the man himself. Literally only comes back to his senses when Dedue comes back.

In Silver Snow he sends Gilbert to ask for the professor aid. In CF his mostly sane as Dedous alive  and

 

wasn't thrown in jail.

In his own route Byleth had the opposite effect on him then on Edelgard that's a fact. Gilbert and Byleth still are allowed to try to talk to Claude. In GD he shows up no one knows his alive attacks everyone then dies in a exposition dump. No consistent reason why for this. His far worse on GD for no explainable reason. 

Edelgard was litterally

 

tortured and brainwashed with a false sense of history to the fact she tries to kill her brother multiple times. Despite confessing to used to love him at the goddess tower. Also starts a world war. 

Edelgard own inner conflict gets over looked. Her views are so extreme she doesn't even listen to anyone else out side of CF. It's why Claude sides with Rhea over her. Hell in CF she even

kills a already defeated Dimitri.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Julian Solo
Grammar and added more actually on topic.

[Troykv]

1 hour ago, Julian Solo said:

In his own route Byleth had the opposite effect on him then on Edelgard that's a fact. Gilbert and Byleth still are allowed to try to talk to Claude. In GD he shows up no one knows his alive attacks everyone then dies in a exposition dump. No consistent reason why for this. His far worse on GD for no explainable reason. 

He had an opportunity to kill Edelgard even if it was suicidal to try it... and he wanted to take it... If he doesn't have Byleth at his side nobody can stop him of doing dumb stuff.

[Julian Solo]

19 minutes ago, Troykv said:

He had an opportunity to kill Edelgard even if it was suicidal to try it... and he wanted to take it... If he doesn't have Byleth at his side nobody can stop him of doing dumb stuff.

What did he do that was that dumb in CF or Silver Snow? The dumbest thing he did in Blue Lions was ignore Byleth warning of attacking the bandits without a plan. Which for some reason Claude whose smarter then Byleth also does and Seteth. Without so much a word of protest from Byleth in those routes. The reason in the story why BL Dimitri is crazier then BE routes Dimitri is

he killed Ashe father and his militia before they killed Rhea and found vengeance justified because Byleth took him to kill Kronya. His arc contrasts Edelgards.

[Troykv]

13 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

What did he do that was that dumb in CF or Silver Snow? The dumbest thing he did in Blue Lions was ignore Byleth warning of attacking the bandits without a plan. Which for some reason Claude whose smarter then Byleth also does and Seteth. Without so much a word of protest from Byleth in those routes. The reason in the story why BL Dimitri is crazier then BE routes Dimitri is

  Reveal hidden contents

he killed Ashe father and his militia before they killed Rhea and found vengeance justified because Byleth took him to kill Kronya. His arc contrasts Edelgards.

 

Oh yeah I know that; I was talking in the context of GD.

In Silver Snow it's hard to say; but considering he's dead... something happened; and was probably related to his boarness.

[Julian Solo]

1 hour ago, Troykv said:

Oh yeah I know that; I was talking in the context of GD.

In Silver Snow it's hard to say; but considering he's dead... something happened; and was probably related to his boarness.

I agree but like he still showed enough sense to at least ask for help and redemption

[Troykv]

Just now, Julian Solo said:

I agree but like he still showed enough sense to at least ask for help and redemption

Of course, he has issues, but he's still Dimitri...

Unless Edelgard it's in front of him of course; then Dimitri dissapears and the boar takes everything.

[Jingle Jangle]

So far after playing two and a quarter routes (BL, church, half of the BE and half of GD) I see Edelgard with poor regard. At times I'm not sure if my issuse with her is intentional or not.

Edelgard preaches a lot about giving the people the opportunities to improve their status, but she never learns to understand their plights if she just sat for a second and understood what she was doing to them she would have been better received. She also is very contradictory of this fact saying it's okay to kill them to achieve her goals but bad for them to cling on to something to believe in like a church or a just ruler.

At times she feels very player panderly, fangirling over Byleth's in all routes arguably more so than other characters. Edelgard's death cutscene in the GD is the same exact cutscene as Silver Snow. That does not make that much sense. She barely knows Byleth in that route to give the " you could have been by my side speech.

In the majority of the routes, Edel is a tyrant that uses crests beasts, uses her people as a living shield and hunts down the faithful, Only in her route, she's a well-intentioned extremist that only kills when she absolutely has to, is tolerant of the faith and never uses crest beasts. I have a difficult time believing that Byleth and Byleth alone is the only person that prevents Edelgard not going full manic because the prof cared for her 5 years ago before vanishing keeping Edel in line I find difficult to buy.
Honestly, Edelgard's real problem was she needed to try a couple of other approaches to realize her goals before settling on "let's conquer the entire continent"

I do understand that she's on a timer. Only have what, 10 years left to live at the beginning of the game? But the game would not be as interesting if she opened up to the others lords turning this into 3 Houses into a standard FE game about everyone banding together to expose ancient evil conspiracy #7. Then again, I'm glad she didn't because 3H would be a lot more boring that way. 

But still she'd have an easier time getting the Church's approval to handle Thales and she could always drop the "hey guys, did you know that archbishop pope is a dragon" bombshell to the public after. Not even Seteth is fully on board with current Rhea actions, it wouldn't take much to convince him. She was sitting on a treasure trove of (skewed) information to barter and blackmail with, and she kept it all to herself.

Even in ending of the Black Eagles ending, she's taking on TWISTED with Byleth's time powers gone and the Black Eagles Strike Force disassembled. Those who slither in the dark possibly taken difficult years to defeat in some of the endings. Even on her route  Edelgard didn't fix Fodlan. She just merely repackaged it.

[Mikethemaster2018]

4 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

So far after playing two and a quarter routes (BL, church, half of the BE and half of GD) I see Edelgard with poor regard. At times I'm not sure if my issuse with her is intentional or not.

Edelgard preaches a lot about giving the people the opportunities to improve their status, but she never learns to understand their plights if she just sat for a second and understood what she was doing to them she would have been better received. She also is very contradictory of this fact saying it's okay to kill them to achieve her goals but bad for them to cling on to something to believe in like a church or a just ruler.

At times she feels very player panderly, fangirling over Byleth's in all routes arguably more so than other characters. Edelgard's death cutscene in the GD is the same exact cutscene as Silver Snow. That does not make that much sense. She barely knows Byleth in that route to give the " you could have been by my side speech.

In the majority of the routes, Edel is a tyrant that uses crests beasts, uses her people as a living shield and hunts down the faithful, Only in her route, she's a well-intentioned extremist that only kills when she absolutely has to, is tolerant of the faith and never uses crest beasts. I have a difficult time believing that Byleth and Byleth alone is the only person that prevents Edelgard not going full manic because the prof cared for her 5 years ago before vanishing keeping Edel in line I find difficult to buy.
Honestly, Edelgard's real problem was she needed to try a couple of other approaches to realize her goals before settling on "let's conquer the entire continent"

I do understand that she's on a timer. Only have what, 10 years left to live at the beginning of the game? But the game would not be as interesting if she opened up to the others lords turning this into 3 Houses into a standard FE game about everyone banding together to expose ancient evil conspiracy #7. Then again, I'm glad she didn't because 3H would be a lot more boring that way. 

But still she'd have an easier time getting the Church's approval to handle Thales and she could always drop the "hey guys, did you know that archbishop pope is a dragon" bombshell to the public after. Not even Seteth is fully on board with current Rhea actions, it wouldn't take much to convince him. She was sitting on a treasure trove of (skewed) information to barter and blackmail with, and she kept it all to herself.

Even in ending of the Black Eagles ending, she's taking on TWISTED with Byleth's time powers gone and the Black Eagles Strike Force disassembled. Those who slither in the dark possibly taken difficult years to defeat in some of the endings. Even on her route  Edelgard didn't fix Fodlan. She just merely repackaged it.

You said it yourself if everybody act rationally, Eldegard and Dimitri to be precise. Everybody joined forces it would be a typical FE story. to add spice to the fromula that had to take out a few brain cells. the last part of BE routes says she brought a era of peace we dont know how long and should we care really? After this the games history probably wont be mention after this except for references or a spinoff happens for cash.

[Julian Solo]

14 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

So far after playing two and a quarter routes (BL, church, half of the BE and half of GD) I see Edelgard with poor regard. At times I'm not sure if my issuse with her is intentional or not.

Edelgard preaches a lot about giving the people the opportunities to improve their status, but she never learns to understand their plights if she just sat for a second and understood what she was doing to them she would have been better received. She also is very contradictory of this fact saying it's okay to kill them to achieve her goals but bad for them to cling on to something to believe in like a church or a just ruler.

At times she feels very player panderly, fangirling over Byleth's in all routes arguably more so than other characters. Edelgard's death cutscene in the GD is the same exact cutscene as Silver Snow. That does not make that much sense. She barely knows Byleth in that route to give the " you could have been by my side speech.

In the majority of the routes, Edel is a tyrant that uses crests beasts, uses her people as a living shield and hunts down the faithful, Only in her route, she's a well-intentioned extremist that only kills when she absolutely has to, is tolerant of the faith and never uses crest beasts. I have a difficult time believing that Byleth and Byleth alone is the only person that prevents Edelgard not going full manic because the prof cared for her 5 years ago before vanishing keeping Edel in line I find difficult to buy.
Honestly, Edelgard's real problem was she needed to try a couple of other approaches to realize her goals before settling on "let's conquer the entire continent"

I do understand that she's on a timer. Only have what, 10 years left to live at the beginning of the game? But the game would not be as interesting if she opened up to the others lords turning this into 3 Houses into a standard FE game about everyone banding together to expose ancient evil conspiracy #7. Then again, I'm glad she didn't because 3H would be a lot more boring that way. 

But still she'd have an easier time getting the Church's approval to handle Thales and she could always drop the "hey guys, did you know that archbishop pope is a dragon" bombshell to the public after. Not even Seteth is fully on board with current Rhea actions, it wouldn't take much to convince him. She was sitting on a treasure trove of (skewed) information to barter and blackmail with, and she kept it all to herself.

Even in ending of the Black Eagles ending, she's taking on TWISTED with Byleth's time powers gone and the Black Eagles Strike Force disassembled. Those who slither in the dark possibly taken difficult years to defeat in some of the endings. Even on her route  Edelgard didn't fix Fodlan. She just merely repackaged it.

She also tries to say her stepping down is her redemption for being a conquer. When it literally takes her years to do and half her endings implies she doesn't ever really step down. Well Dimitri does far less and is forced to work to death for redemption. Claude comes back when ever Byleth needs help. Her being the one to start the world war on every route makes putting her morally on the same level as the other impossible. Specially when she never faces true retribution. The story falls flat in her route because they try paint her on the same level as the other three lords and the justification falls flat. Then you play the other routes and learn she was 99% wrong about the history of Fodlan. She be a much better character ironically if her route didn't exist. 

[Rose482]

34 minutes ago, Julian Solo said:

She also tries to say her stepping down is her redemption for being a conquer. When it literally takes her years to do and half her endings implies she doesn't ever really step down. Well Dimitri does far less and is forced to work to death for redemption. Claude comes back when ever Byleth needs help. Her being the one to start the world war on every route makes putting her morally on the same level as the other impossible. Specially when she never faces true retribution. The story falls flat in her route because they try paint her on the same level as the other three lords and the justification falls flat. Then you play the other routes and learn she was 99% wrong about the history of Fodlan. She be a much better character ironically if her route didn't exist. 

Yeah I'm glad you brought this up. It always makes me a bit confused when I see anyone brings up how unfair it is that some people are a lot more ready to forgive Dimitri, but not Edelgard. But you really can't compare the two as their actions differ a lot. And like you said, Dimitri does actually get called out on it and the game does acknowledge that how he's acting is wrong. But on the other hand (And I'm talking about in her route here) the game never really tries to paint Edelgard as someone who has done wrong for starting a war, or just how horrific a war could be. The fact they just sorta glossed over it in my opinion is why people would be more likely to forgive Dimitri and dislike Edelgard. 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Rose482

[Icelerate]

Here is an interesting analysis that I loved to read. 

 

[Nihilem]

1 hour ago, Rose482 said:

Yeah I'm glad you brought this up. It always makes me a bit confused when I see anyone brings up how unfair it is that some people are a lot more ready to forgive Dimitri, but not Edelgard. But you really can't compare the two as their actions differ a lot. And like you said, Dimitri does actually get called out on it and the game does acknowledge that how he's acting is wrong. But on the other hand (And I'm talking about in her route here) the game never really tries to paint Edelgard as someone who has done wrong for starting a war, or just how horrific a war could be. The fact they just sorta glossed over it in my opinion is why people would be more likely to forgive Dimitri and dislike Edelgard. 

Also starting a war where countless innocents die - Or get orphans - Or loose loved ones is a much more serious bad thing then retaliating against an army that have attacked you. One can be considered self defense the other one an aggressive act.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Nihilem

[Moltz23]

I'm honestly not bothered much by how Edelgard doesn't get called about her plans in Crimson Flower mostly because the other routes already make pretty clear how extreme and violent her methods are. Yes, they do archive results, but it's not the only way to do things. And considering her route is the only one were you're not only given the choice to join her, but it also happens at a point were the game fully expects you to have a good grasp of Edelgard's past, motives and methods, it would be weird for Byleth to join her while also trying to change her into something she's not.

[Crysta]

Do you guys really expect the route where you're given the choice to join the antagonist to repeatedly try to guilt you over that choice?

It makes sense to do it with Dimitri - the guy is literally a psychotic murderhobo but clearly meant to be a good guy - and even then only Felix really gives him flak for it. And that weird, heavy-handed dialogue in the beginning when the game suddenly tries to make you ponder the moral ramifications of murdering the thieves squatting at the monastery.

At that point I'd argue he's worse than Edelgard. Edelgard is ruthless, but she doesn't take actual gratification in killing people.

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Crysta

[ZeManaphy]

1 minute ago, Crysta said:

Do you guys really expect the route where you're given the choice to join the antagonist to repeatedly try to guilt you over that choice?

It makes sense to do it with Dimitri - the guy is literally a psychotic murderhobo but clearly meant to be a good guy - and even then only Felix really gives him flak for it. And that weird, heavy-handed dialogue in the beginning when the game suddenly tries to make you ponder the moral ramifications of murdering the thieves squatting at the monastery.

 

That’s not exactly true- both Annette and Gilbert call him out, with the latter questioning him on having any remorse for killing his former friends, while Annette calls him out for wiping all of the empire, which is too extreme.

[Crysta]

4 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

That’s not exactly true- both Annette and Gilbert call him out, with the latter questioning him on having any remorse for killing his former friends, while Annette calls him out for wiping all of the empire, which is too extreme.

And then they drop it. The push back was very soft. Gilbert does hint at needing to have a serious, potentially stressful conversation with Dimitri - which seems like a legitimate desire to stage an intervention of sorts - but it never actually materializes.

Was very impressed how the game railroaded me into Inevitable Secondary Character Death.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Crysta

[Julian Solo]

1 hour ago, Moltz23 said:

I'm honestly not bothered much by how Edelgard doesn't get called about her plans in Crimson Flower mostly because the other routes already make pretty clear how extreme and violent her methods are. Yes, they do archive results, but it's not the only way to do things. And considering her route is the only one were you're not only given the choice to join her, but it also happens at a point were the game fully expects you to have a good grasp of Edelgard's past, motives and methods, it would be weird for Byleth to join her while also trying to change her into something she's not.

No it doesn't it merely hits at it from her supports that she was tortured. She doesn't explain anything till later and the other routes do nothing shade light on her motives. 

@Crysta No nothing Dimitri did comes close to starting a world war. Killing her step brother and uncle. Wiping out potentially an entire species. Plus forcefully invading and conquer nations where her classmates lived. He also worked till the day he dies well Edelgard retires. She does this with her mental state stable as well.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Julian Solo

[Crysta]

Imagine if Rodrigue didn't die. So much of the narrative hinged on that plot point lol.

You really think Dimitri in that state wouldn't have thrown all the soldiers he could at Edelgard? Regardless of who they were and how senseless this hypothetical plan may be. We already established that he's more than willing to use you and your friends to get what he wants.

It's a good thing he gets saved, but you're fooling yourself if you truly believe he was an innately better person at that point. Unlike Edelgard, he simply lacks the means to do terrible things but he sure does try.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Crysta

[CyberNinja]

16 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Imagine if Rodrigue didn't die. So much of the narrative hinged on that plot point lol.

You really think Dimitri in that state wouldn't have thrown all the soldiers he could at Edelgard? Regardless of who they were and how senseless this hypothetical plan may be. We already established that he's more than willing to use you and your friends to get what he wants.

It's a good thing he gets saved, but you're fooling yourself if you truly believe he was an innately better person at that point. Unlike Edelgard, he simply lacks the means to do terrible things but he sure does try.

I'd say he was rather successful with Randolph, don't you think?

[Crysta]

I don't think he actually got the chance to torture him but yeah I guess?

I know we're willing to dismiss Randolph because he's an enemy combatant, but his family wasn't and threatening them for the funsies was hilariously over the top

[Julian Solo]

32 minutes ago, Crysta said:

Imagine if Rodrigue didn't die. So much of the narrative hinged on that plot point lol.

You really think Dimitri in that state wouldn't have thrown all the soldiers he could at Edelgard? Regardless of who they were and how senseless this hypothetical plan may be. We already established that he's more than willing to use you and your friends to get what he wants.

It's a good thing he gets saved, but you're fooling yourself if you truly believe he was an innately better person at that point. Unlike Edelgard, he simply lacks the means to do terrible things but he sure does try.

Nope because he doesn't he runs off alone and her men kill him in GD. That's a part of his character actually. 

[Crysta]

Just now, Julian Solo said:

Nope because he doesn't he runs off alone and her men kill him in GD. That's a part of his character actually. 

after you murder his friends, yes