What are your thoughts on Edelgard? *SPOILERS*

[Tenzen12]

Well, Stalin did what he did because he believed in better society just like Eldegard. 

And Hitler solved massive poverty in Germany, plus he managed divert all hate on racial minority. Replace jews with dragons... 

 

Edit: Well I personally think Edie is her own kind dictator and wouldn't make such comparison, but I can understand why someone would as there are some parables. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tenzen12

[Strullemia]

Just now, Nihilem said:

Funnily enough the actually never mention if she succeds in that 😅. Like she is also fighting TWSITD but it is unclear if she manages to beat them or if they can hide insinde her new empire setting roots for further generations to come.

 

But as mentioned before, I think those ending text are written by the victories factions and therefore should be taken with a grain of salt. They are not lying obviously but words can be interpreted in various ways, downsides not be mentioned, etc etc

Eh, she has Hubie on her side and has unified the continent. I always thought the implication seemed to be that they do defeat TWSITD but it takes a really long time which is why Byleth's endings with certain character change quite a bit.

[Nihilem]

20 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

And Hitler solved massive poverty in Germany, plus he managed divert all hate on racial minority. Replace jews with dragons and... 

As a german myself, I also noticed that part and it gave me a really uncomfortable feeling. Her reasoning was not: She is a dragon, she is mad/dangerous etc and a threat to us, but: She is a dragon, she is a monster and thats why we must kill here. Exspecially as in the later parts it sounds like that reasoning encorporates ALL manaketes, regardless if they are even connected to the church or not. Which then sounds like something from our history books .....

On the other side we do not really know if a Manakete in her new empire would simply be killed for beeing "a child of the vile goddess" as all manakates she know were ... well Rhea ...

17 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

Eh, she has Hubie on her side and has unified the continent. I always thought the implication seemed to be that they do defeat TWSITD but it takes a really long time which is why Byleth's endings with certain character change quite a bit.

I actually find it quite good that they left that question open. Because other paths concentrate on this question. And given the effort the other characters have to take to get ride of TWSITD it would feel quite cheap if she just deals with them on the fly. Also she is basically a pawn of TWSITD, with an own agency but a pawn nevertheless. And given that the TWSITD are quite the masterful pupeteers in the shadows it would also be uncharacteristic that they didnt forsee the possibility that Edel might win the conflict and prepare measurements to deal with her.... but them changing their society that she believes TWSITD are dealt with ..... that is something different.

 

Does Edelgard actually know about the real leaders of TWSITD? Or does she think her uncle is the only head of it?

Edited August 9, 2019 by Nihilem

[Timlugia]

Have same feeling here, my parents were war refugees displaced by communist wars.

Her claims and methods of brining equality by violent war really reminded us those who persecuted my parents’ generation. In fact when I explained her character to my family, some really straight called her a communist for this reason.

[Mikethemaster2018]

1 hour ago, Tenzen12 said:

She doesn't create democracy though, even in her ending where she abdicate Empire got singular authorative leader and its obvious she didn't stripped nobles working with her position either. Saying that discrimination based on status disappeared only because crests are gone is bull. Already fact that Edie believes removing crests is way to make social change shows she does not understand how to deal with issue in first place . 

Her endings basically says,: Edelgard did everything to make disfunction country and despite all her effort and professional approach she failed and everyone were happy....Well until Fire nation attacked and conquered whole Empire because it had no defense against technologicaly advenced foe. 

It a video game clam down and it fire emblem it not trying to be realistic at all. Do you think a noble back in the midevil day really talk to commoners fo real. Some might but majority didnt. Damn the fan baseput more thought into the game than IS did. She basically Nobu naga. And lekouch from code geass. And alot if peoole love Lelouch.

[Tenzen12]

I am pretty sure I never said FE is realistic portrait of middle age though? Sorry, I don't see your point. 

Well I do agree she is basically Lelouch and uch at least. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tenzen12

[Strullemia]

17 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

1. As a german myself, I also noticed that part and it gave me a really uncomfortable feeling. Her reasoning was not: She is a dragon, she is mad/dangerous etc and a threat to us, but: She is a dragon, she is a monster and thats why we must kill here. Exspecially as in the later parts it sounds like that reasoning encorporates ALL manaketes, regardless if they are even connected to the church or not. Which then sounds like something from our history books .....

On the other side we do not really know if a Manakete in her new empire would simply be killed for beeing "a child of the vile goddess" as all manakates she know were ... well Rhea ...

2. I actually find it quite good that they left that question open. Because other paths concentrate on this question. And given the effort the other characters have to take to get ride of TWSITD it would feel quite cheap if she just deals with them on the fly. Also she is basically a pawn of TWSITD, with an own agency but a pawn nevertheless. And given that the TWSITD are quite the masterful pupeteers in the shadows it would also be uncharacteristic that they didnt forsee the possibility that Edel might win the conflict and prepare measurements to deal with her.... but them changing their society that she believes TWSITD are dealt with ..... that is something different.

 

Does Edelgard actually know about the real leaders of TWSITD? Or does she think her uncle is the only head of it?

1. It's important to note that Jews didn't have the ability to turn into dragons that could kill armies.

The church never told anyone about Rhea's identity and also went out of its way to twist history. Twisting history is never a right thing to do, even if you're twisting it to make things look better. The church have partly themselves to blame if they go out of their way to hide the truth, because without proper history you can't expect people to learn out of the mistakes made from the past. The moment they were manipulating history Edelgard didn't have any reason to believe any of their words.

2. I've always had the impression that Edelgard was a more competent ruler than either Dimitri or Claude because she was "created" to be the best emperor...which is why I also believe that after she gains the power of a unified Fodlan she has enough power to break free of the shackles of TWSITD and strike back at them. This also seems somewhat implied with some of the scenes she has with Byleth, Hubert and her uncle. 

So yeah I guess if you want to leave it open you can but I fully believe that she manages to deal with them.

[Mikethemaster2018]

6 minutes ago, Tenzen12 said:

I am pretty sure I never said FE is realistic portrait of middle age though? Sorry, I don't see your point. 

Well I do agree she is basically Lelouch and uch at least. 

I am Saying people comparing El to real life people like hitler is i dont know the word i am looking. It something though. El is a video game character it a video game it meant for fun not debates. It fun to talk about some fans taking to seriously.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Mikethemaster2018

[Timlugia]

3 hours ago, MrPerson0 said:

 

 

Just curious,

  Reveal hidden contents

I have heard that Rhea/Sothis apparently decimated Almyra because they tried to go up against Sothis with their advanced weaponry, and this is how TWSitD formed (angry descendants). Is this true, if so, who did it?

 

Spoiler

It's not Almarian, but Agraian (underground people) Edelgard and Claude route presents different version of the event.

In Edelgard's version it was claimed Sothis was an evil god that destroyed human civilization for envying their advancement, and Seiros killed Nemesis because she was jealous on his power given by Sothis.

In Claude's path the story was given as Sothis arrived from a far away land (some interpret that she's an alien landed on this planet, due to her name), she raised many children of goddess (manakets), shared her knowledge with human, who in turn built advanced civilianzation. They were in peace at first. But human, being human nature, started war first among themselves, eventually they also declared war at Sothis. The exchange between advanced weapons (implied to be things like nuclear and orbital strikes ), magic and dragons nearly destroyed human race, with many survivors went to underground shelters whom some became the TWISTD. Sothis used all her power to save remaining humans and enviroment, then retires into her throne room to recover (known as Holy Tomb today

TWISTD then sent in Nemesis to kills her in her sleep, cut her into pieces, making her heart into crest stone, her bone into the sword. They then marched toward Zanado, killing many manaketes there, and in turn making them into 10 other crests and relic weapons, then given to his 10 general known as 10 elites.

Rhea vowed for vengence, adopted new name (Seiros, "scorching"), allied with human warlord William I by giving him her blood and power, like how Exalt in Awakening was given blood of Naga. William I then established the Empire with this power. After almost 100 years fighting Seiros finally killed Nemesis with his 10 generals surrendered. Seiros and the empire made a deal by rewriting the history to cover up the origin of the crests from "dead dragon hearts" into "power granted by goddess".

Spoiler

Personally I belive Rhea's verison of story is far closer to truth than Edelgard's. Not only Rhea was alive during these events, Edelgard's claims of "vile and twisted goddess" simply doesn't match who Sothis is in the game, who was nothing but benevolent to humans and the land. Nemesis also showed in the game as a violent warlord.

Furthermore, the claim that Sothis' grant sword and crest to Nemesis simply doesn't make sense since multiple sources state they were brutally made out of dead dragon's beating heart.

 

[Tenzen12]

Yes I said I wouldn't 

7 minutes ago, Mikethemaster2018 said:

Saying people comparing to real life people like hitler is i dont know the word i am looking. It something though. El is a video game character it a video game it meant for fun not debates. It fun to talk about some fans taking to seriously.

I did said I wouldn't make such comparison myself, didn't I? But it's not like these comparisons are completely wrong. 

[Nihilem]

2 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

1. It's important to note that Jews didn't have the ability to turn into dragons that could kill armies.

The church never told anyone about Rhea's identity and also went out of its way to twist history. Twisting history is never a right thing to do, even if you're twisting it to make things look better. The church have partly themselves to blame if they go out of their way to hide the truth, because without proper history you can't expect people to learn out of the mistakes made from the past. The moment they were manipulating history Edelgard didn't have any reason to believe any of their words.

2. I've always had the impression that Edelgard was a more competent ruler than either Dimitri or Claude because she was "created" to be the best emperor...which is why I also believe that after she gains the power of a unified Fodlan she has enough power to break free of the shackles of TWSITD and strike back at them. This also seems somewhat implied with some of the scenes she has with Byleth, Hubert and her uncle. 

So yeah I guess if you want to leave it open you can but I fully believe that she manages to deal with them.

I wouldnt go so far to compare her to real life dictators - just saying that some of her actions gave me bad vibes.

Also she was created to become quite powerful through her extra crest. Not to be a competent leader - that the guys with the most powerful crest dont need to be competent leaders at all is the main point of her rebellion. But she is probably not entirely incompetent, the stuff she achieves requires some political knowledge after all.

I just would find it to easy if TWSITD planned all those steps to bring down the church and then were completly defenseless against Edelgard - a soldier they have created themselves. Exspecially as I dont know how much of the structure of TWSITD Edelgard and Hubert know of. Do they know about Thales and Agartha? Or do they think of them as like a special company of her uncle? Because then he could like fake his death letting everybody think TWSITD is dealt with ... while returning to the shadows .... they seem to have time after all - whats a generation or two more ...

[Timlugia]

15 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

2. I've always had the impression that Edelgard was a more competent ruler than either Dimitri or Claude because she was "created" to be the best emperor...which is why I also believe that after she gains the power of a unified Fodlan she has enough power to break free of the shackles of TWSITD and strike back at them. This also seems somewhat implied with some of the scenes she has with Byleth, Hubert and her uncle. 

So yeah I guess if you want to leave it open you can but I fully believe that she manages to deal with them.

Spoiler

But that’s an absolute contradiction to her path. It’s against everything she believes. She was created to be a “perfect” emperor because she has two crests, she said this herself. And in her path she rejected the crests completely; making her a normal mortal without any superpower in the end (so was Byleth). So arguing she’s superior ruler doesn’t make sense at all here.

 

Furthermore, there is nowhere saying carrying Crest of Flame alone makes one a better ruler. And if it was so, wouldn’t Byleth an even better ruler as in three other routes? He/she bear the true Crest of Flame, being the Progenitor God reincarnated, being immortal thus can carry out reform without restriction, believes in progressive ideals but being much more modest and pacifists than Edelgard, rules justly and supported by all sides including nobles, church and the people.

 

[Tenzen12]

22 minutes ago, Hekselka said:

1. It's important to note that Jews didn't have the ability to turn into dragons that could kill armies.

The church never told anyone about Rhea's identity and also went out of its way to twist history. Twisting history is never a right thing to do, even if you're twisting it to make things look better. The church have partly themselves to blame if they go out of their way to hide the truth, because without proper history you can't expect people to learn out of the mistakes made from the past. The moment they were manipulating history Edelgard didn't have any reason to believe any of their words.

2. I've always had the impression that Edelgard was a more competent ruler than either Dimitri or Claude because she was "created" to be the best emperor...which is why I also believe that after she gains the power of a unified Fodlan she has enough power to break free of the shackles of TWSITD and strike back at them. This also seems somewhat implied with some of the scenes she has with Byleth, Hubert and her uncle. 

So yeah I guess if you want to leave it open you can but I fully believe that she manages to deal with them.

Well they certainly didn't have such ability. That said it's not like being able transform make anyone monster and enemy of mankind. 

Regardless whether falsifying history was right or wrong (which is arguable), race is never argument for anything. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tenzen12

[Strullemia]

3 minutes ago, Nihilem said:

I wouldnt go so far to compare her to real life dictators - just saying that some of her actions gave me bad vibes.

Also she was created to become quite powerful through her extra crest. Not to be a competent leader - that the guys with the most powerful crest dont need to be competent leaders at all is the main point of her rebellion. But she is probably not entirely incompetent, the stuff she achieves requires some political knowledge after all.

I just would find it to easy if TWSITD planned all those steps to bring down the church and then were completly defenseless against Edelgard - a soldier they have created themselves. Exspecially as I dont know how much of the structure of TWSITD Edelgard and Hubert know of. Do they know about Thales and Agartha? Or do they think of them as like a special company of her uncle? Because then he could like fake his death letting everybody think TWSITD is dealt with ... while returning to the shadows .... they seem to have time after all - whats a generation or two more ...

In the church route after you kill Edelgard, someone delivers you a letter written by Hubert explaining the TWSITD threat and their location so it seems that even then they already know a lot. 

1 minute ago, Timlugia said:

  Hide contents

But that’s an absolute contradiction to her path. It’s against everything she believes. She was created to be a “perfect” emperor because she has two crests, she said this herself. And in her path she rejected the crests completely; making her a normal mortal without any superpower in the end (so was Byleth). So arguing she’s superior ruler doesn’t make sense at all here.

 

Furthermore, there is nowhere saying carrying Crest of Flame alone makes one a better ruler. And if it was so, wouldn’t Byleth an even better ruler as in three other routes? He/she bear the true Crest of Flame, being the Progenitor God reincarnated, being immortal thus can carry out reform without restriction, believes in progressive ideals but being much more modest and pacifists than Edelgard, rules justly and supported by all sides including nobles, church and the people.

 

Sorry, I have worded that a bit badly. I didn't mean to say that thanks to her crests she became a strong emperor, I meant that aside from her crests from the day she was taken away from Dimitri and he gave her that dagger and the events that transpired afterwards she trained herself in every possible way to become as strong of an Emperor as she could be. In the BE and BL route she wrecks the enemy nations at the start of the timeskip, don't know if it's different in the GD/Church route.

Her uncle counts on her fighting the Kingdom of Fargus and does seem to have certain expectations of her (he mentions at some points that he's glad to see them fight and weaken themselves, not sure what route though). Had she been an awful ruler he probably would have disposed of her and used someone else for his plans instead. 

 

[Tenzen12]

Why? All her uncle want is destruction of dragon kind and she is very good in that. How good or bad ruler she is, is unrelated to his goals. 

[Timlugia]

Honestly, if we don't count literal "god emperor Byleth", then Claude IMO is the best ruler of the three

- Has highest amibtion, not just to reform crests, but also break down boundry between nations and eliminate racism.

- Lived most of his life as a commoner and foreigner, has deep understanding of common people and racism.

- Most diplomatic in the three lords, least bloodthirsty probably because he was a commoner.

- Has best potential to end century long wars between Fodlan and Almyra

Spoiler

Since he's actually the crown prince in Almyra

- Least power hunger, willing to hand over the throne to Byleth who he deems a better ruler than himself.

[MrPerson0]

2 hours ago, Timlugia said:

Spoiler

Personally I belive Rhea's verison of story is far closer to truth than Edelgard's. Not only Rhea was alive during these events, Edelgard's claims of "vile and twisted goddess" simply doesn't match who Sothis is in the game, who was nothing but benevolent to humans and the land. Nemesis also showed in the game as a violent warlord.

Furthermore, the claim that Sothis' grant sword and crest to Nemesis simply doesn't make sense since multiple sources state they were brutally made out of dead dragon's beating heart.

 

Thanks for that backstory. Rhea's version of the story does seem far more fitting due to the exact reasons you stated. Guess this confirms that Edelgard was truly brainwashed by TWSitD, or is being intentionally misleading.

Edited August 9, 2019 by MrPerson0

[Mikethemaster2018]

1 minute ago, MrPerson0 said:

Thanks for that backstory. Rhea's version of the story does seem far more sitting due to the exact reasons you stated. Guess this confirms that Edelgard was truly brainwashed by TWSitD, or is being intentionally misleading.

So basicly everybody has a twisted or misconception of the real history of Fodlan except Rhea. Damn kind of wish there was a 5th royte were all four know the true hustory and nemisis and twsitd were the true end bos. 

[Tenzen12]

That would be pretty difficult narratively though. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Tenzen12

[Nihilem]

5 minutes ago, Mikethemaster2018 said:

So basicly everybody has a twisted or misconception of the real history of Fodlan except Rhea. Damn kind of wish there was a 5th royte were all four know the true hustory and nemisis and twsitd were the true end bos. 

Oh yeah, a Revelations type story dlc is also what I wish for.... is in good because I heard actual Revelations wasnt written that well ... And no GD Route doesnt count because Edel is still brainwashed there. And dies probably.

But to be fair that 5 Route also must somehow adress the problem with mad seiros which seems to be a victim of "beeing a dragon corrupts you after time".

 

And I dont think that would devaluate the other stories as it would be dlc and everyone who does not like a "happy ending story" can just ignore it. And keep the bittersweet endings ...

[Silverly]

I’ve always been of the opinion that Edelgard was pretty overhyped, but I’ll give credit that she makes for a very solid antagonist. I think in general it’s harder to write a villain with some protagonist elements than vice versa, and while I ultimately dislike here, there’s something to admire about how ambitious she is. She’s quite flawed and at some points flat out hypocritical, but her ambitions definitely differentiate her from other lords in the series in an interesting (if not entirely good).

I can’t help but feel at times that Edelgard appeals to the angsty anti-religious woke crowd which makes me roll my eyes sometimes, but otherwise I can see what others might find in her as a character.

[Strullemia]

10 minutes ago, Timlugia said:

Honestly, if we don't count literal "god emperor Byleth", then Claude IMO is the best ruler of the three

- Has highest amibtion, not just to reform crests, but also break down boundry between nations and eliminate racism.

- Lived most of his life as a commoner and foreigner, has deep understanding of common people and racism.

- Most diplomatic in the three lords, least bloodthirsty probably because he was a commoner.

- Has best potential to end century long wars between Fodlan and Almyra

  Reveal hidden contents

Since he's actually the crown prince in Almyra

- Least power hunger, willing to hand over the throne to Byleth who he deems a better ruler than himself.

I still need to complete GD so for now I'll take your word for it (140 hours in and only 2 routes completed, not even reached the GD timeskip, god this game is long). Even then Edelgard still pushes Claude very hard on the war offensive which shows that she's really competent. 

I did complete the BE and BL routes. She's definitely better than Dimitri, his breakdown while understandable is something a ruler has no need off, especially not in a time when your country is in great peril.

[Kiran_]

I'm so excited to play her route! In the Blue Lions route, I actually think Dimitri (post time-skip) is the bad guy atm with his single minded hatred. And after supporting ALL the characters who HATE their crests and the world they live in, Edelgard denouncing crests and going against the Church seems logical and I haven't even played her route.

Also I really dislike Rhea (I don't know the entire story with her), but everything she does/says has rubbed me the wrong way and honestly I want to kill her myself. So it's interesting because even on the Blue Lions route, I find myself intrigued and curious and agreeing with Edelgard even though they don't really paint a wonderful picture of her motives as it (clearly) is focusing in on Dimitri.

So the fact she can be so intriguing on a different route I think speaks to her being a well-written character. I'm super excited to play the BE route, but I'm sorta saving it for last, because I think it's going to be my personal 'canon' route.

 

[MrPerson0]

8 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

Edelgard denouncing crests and going against the Church seems logical and I haven't even played her route. 

This would be great if she didn't have to start a war over it. Heck, it seems Rhea seemed content with handing over the church to Byleth before the timeskip anyway.

Also, don't forget that she

Spoiler

tried to get Dimitri and Claude (and other nobles) killed by bandits in the beginning of the game, which is outright evil.

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by MrPerson0

[AbsoluteZer0Nova]

2 hours ago, Hekselka said:

I did complete the BE and BL routes. She's definitely better than Dimitri, his breakdown while understandable is something a ruler has no need off, especially not in a time when your country is in great peril.

Well of course that's all the more why Gilbert mentions how he and Byleth have to help Dimitri be brought back on the right path again as him being alone did him no favors. Also you need to keep in mind in the BE path when Edelgard is about to kill Dimitri she says he would have made a good ruler in a time of peace which would have been the case had she not declare war.