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Speed, weight, and attack speed

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Okay I can't figure out how it is determined on a character. There's weight. There's speed. Character has no visible constitution stat, and attack speed isn't as simple as character speed - equipped weapon weight.

 

So how the hell does it work?

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Simply put, every 5 points of strength negates 1 point of weight. For example, if you have 10 strength and speed, and you use a 5 weight Iron Sword, you have 7 AS since you only suffer three points of AS loss. Leveling up in the Heavy Armor skill (or being a Fortress Knight) also gives you a skill that reduces the effect of weight.

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3 hours ago, kremelover said:

The weight from shields and accessory does stack with weapon weight!

 

Arguably making wearing one not worth it at all. +4 def! - 4 attack speed >_>

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3 hours ago, Vorena said:

Arguably making wearing one not worth it at all. +4 def! - 4 attack speed >_>

It's not that bad : you can unequip it anytime to reduce the weight without spending an action, and then equip it back if you face an enemy who will double you regardless.

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5 hours ago, Vorena said:

Arguably making wearing one not worth it at all. +4 def! - 4 attack speed >_>

Several characters have too much speed and not enought defense. Also, c in heavy armor is easy enought if your build is not spread too thin.

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7 hours ago, Vorena said:

Arguably making wearing one not worth it at all. +4 def! - 4 attack speed >_>

Remember that in this game you can equip NOTHING, essentially removing all weight modifiers.

So, let's say that you've got, Lysithea. She has 20 speed and 4 defense. 

You're being attacked by a warrior who also has 20 speed, and carries a steel axe. Lysithea can equip a steel shield to get +4 defense during her turn, allowing her to survive an incoming attack without being doubled because she has no weight modifier, while the warrior has the +13 of the axe.

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8 hours ago, Vorena said:

Arguably making wearing one not worth it at all. +4 def! - 4 attack speed >_>

The Shields are probably best on Armored units (particuarly Fortress Knights) or characters with a high Heavy Armor rank.  If you give them a light enough weapon to equip with the Shield, they won't be weighed down at all.  (Everyone learns Weight -3 upon getting a C Rank in Heavy Armor, combine that with the Fortress Knight's innate Weight -5 and that's as much as 8 extra AS to mitigate the combined weight of a weapon and Shield.)

But then that means you'd be using an Armored unit in what's shaping up to be another Mounted Emblem game...

Edited by Von Ithipathachai

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41 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

But then that means you'd be using an Armored unit in what's shaping up to be another Mounted Emblem game... 

March Ring makes it bearable by having them with same move as other infantry units and you could give them a bow for extra range. A squishy unit also reaps the benefits of a huge def boost thanks to the classes high base def. They are certainly in a better position here than in most other games.

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10 hours ago, dragonlordsd said:

Remember that in this game you can equip NOTHING, essentially removing all weight modifiers.

So, let's say that you've got, Lysithea. She has 20 speed and 4 defense. 

You're being attacked by a warrior who also has 20 speed, and carries a steel axe. Lysithea can equip a steel shield to get +4 defense during her turn, allowing her to survive an incoming attack without being doubled because she has no weight modifier, while the warrior has the +13 of the axe.

Shields will have a place as its an option, but its certainly not a set and forget type of thing like one can do with a speed ring unless you willingly need to swap it around with trading to achieve player phase into enemy phase combat among multiple units for some strategy. 

In general, if you keep one equipped from player to enemy phase you suffer a speed penalty that matters. A +1def/-1spd up to a +4def/-4spd is rarely worth while from first glance. Early on in the game most rounds of combat are 1-3HKOs for both allies and enemies meaning in order for that +1 def to mean anything you need to be right on the boundary of converting say a 2HKO into a 3HKO on yourself due to the extra defense. 

Many units from my perspective will struggle to hit doubling speeds. Magic users have okay speed growths 35%/40% linhardt, annette, dorothea, mercedes, marianne. Mounted ground units suffer penalties in %rate or base stat which will be highly valued for many unless going wyvern rider. Some units will have such low defense that they need to block more damage than a shield will provide to prevent a 2HKO. Most speedy units will want to completely forgo damage prevention and instead concentrate on evasion which shield do not help with at all. If your unit is already at a 6HKO, the shield will help bring that likely to a high hit rate, but 6 hits in a single turn can be rare unnecessary compared to being able to heal off any damage. Evading being doubled and doubling back is more valuable than damage blocking usually.

Now, if we had something like +2 def/ -1 spd, or +8 def/ -4 spd that would be certainly be more usable. A 1:1 ration of def to speed seems more niche than wanting to out of my way to use normally.

Edited by Vorena

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It seems like unlike your speed is really high or really low, it's better to just equip one of the weightless ring accessories.  I've gotten tons just from the quest rewards without ever having to buy any.  Getting up to C rank on Heavy Armor is more of a pain than seems worth it, and I can't see why armor units would be a better option than the other classes available.  You only get 5 skills slots, too, so wasting one on 3 weight doesn't seem worth it.

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Also remember that the base Avoid formula is the same as Attack Speed, so each bit of weight of those shields is also bringing down your avoid.

So is +4 Protection worth it considering you are also getting -4 Attack Speed and -4 Avoid?

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8 hours ago, Rezzy said:

It seems like unlike your speed is really high or really low, it's better to just equip one of the weightless ring accessories.  I've gotten tons just from the quest rewards without ever having to buy any.  Getting up to C rank on Heavy Armor is more of a pain than seems worth it, and I can't see why armor units would be a better option than the other classes available.  You only get 5 skills slots, too, so wasting one on 3 weight doesn't seem worth it.

C heavy armor is not bad. E -> C is 300 wexp which for any neutral character is 28 wexp per week. Given you have 3-4 instructions per chapter you get it by just setting a focus and after 3 chapters you have it. If you heavy armor neutral affinity, then prof teachings can range from 16-40 wexp per week as well. You can get in about 1.5 chapters. Given how a  B+ and higher costs >300 wexp sacrifing 1 weapon level level for a perm +3 speed is not bad. All S or S+ rankings for weapons grant really only a +10 crit and +5 dmg. Doubling is more important than +10 crit or +5 dmg. Some classes get +5 dmg for free anyway. Even at 30 str for -6 weight you'll still be weighed down late game by silver weapons. 

Even with going solo focus for a couple of characters on a single weapon getting to S+ was a long venture. You can still reclass even with slightly below stats and you only need A usually in one rank meaning you have plenty of time to spread out to other stuff. For example, focusing reason/faith/riding to get magic units to a better movement and get good spells will take up nearly all their time. 

Edited by Vorena

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