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Hello again!

This time I've come to tell you about Rinkah, the ever overlooked unit.

While people praise Silas in BR for being tanky and dealing damage (and having mobility) or Oboro for these same reasons, they also say Rinkah is bad because her offence (namely strength) sucks, especially her base of 8 and her base speed of 8.

She's level 4 at the beginning of the game. She has Silas' level 6 base def, 15% more def growth, Silas' base spd, 5% more growth, +2 magic with 20% more growth, their personnal skills make their strength 12 (Rinkah) and 14 (Silas) with 8 base and 15% less growth for Rinkah vs 11 for Silas, while Rinkah's personnal gives her 6 base magic just by giving her an HP tonic at the beginning of the chapter and she keeps it for the whole chapter unless you abuse heals on her, meanwhile Silas stays at his base.

Silas has elbow room, giving him +3 str/magic, but it's nothing Rinkah can't get, since marrying her with Silas/cavalier talent Corrin gives her elbow room too (and marriage seals are much less used than heart seals), so now with 2000 gold she has +7 str/mag just by using an HP tonic each chapter (150 gold per chapter won't ruin you, be honest with yourselves). Now if you wish to give her another reclass into diviner, she grabs mag +2, now gaining 9 points of magic alongside seal res (3 skill slots until there, 7 str 9 mag without a single str/mag level up), although at the cost of 2000 gold. Silas would have to marry a diviner to get that, but she can befriend Orochi and not force her to go cavalier/oni 3rd class.

As a promoted unit, she can take luna from Silas marriage, reducing ennemy's res to bits while Silas still struggles to activate vow of friendship for +3 damage/def (meanwhile she has his VoF def without any skill in her base class in a few level ups with 65% def growth, she might even have 12 def at level 6 while Silas still has 10+3 with VoF). She can also abuse armored blow for 0 damage as an oni/blacksmith on PP, while Silas will still take damage with it as a great knight against promoted ennemies. She can grab lancebreaker, quixotic, rend heaven, tomefaire.

So she can get a full passive damage boost build (Fiery blood, elbow room, mag +2, tomefaire) with situational skills (armored blow, rend heaven/luna, quixotic, lancebreaker, pavise, also quixotic makes luna/rend heaven and pavise's activation rate skyrocket with +15% while 30% ennemy hit is totally laughable considering the damage they'll do to her as a paladin/GK/oni savage/blacksmith/basara with her 45% personal def growth carried into any class and her 16 pre-promtion level ups + post promotion).

Meanwhile Silas needs to marry to get lancefaire for bolt naginata/any lance to be really strong, he has 10% less personal magic growth in a base class with 0% magic growth for bolt naginata to be of any use, 0 personal magic base and scrolls/parchments are a waste on him, + he can't get seal res alongside mag +2, rend heaven, quixotic and tomefaire, his spd growth is 10% lower than Rinkah's in any class with equal base spd and no base class/promotion access to tomes to train it or keep it in, and tomefaire is a waste on him.

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So, Silas vs Rinkah:

- Silas personal def is 2 points higher than Rinkah, but he is 2 levels higher than her and has 5% less growth (don't forget he has 50%, and here it's 50% vs 55% in the cavalier class or 65% in base class, nearly 2 points per 3 level ups, so 8-10 points at level 20 for her vs 7 for him on average, and less RNG praying for Rinkah's def level ups). His magic ability is way lower than hers, his only worthy 1-2 range weapons can't double attack, let ennemies double him very often (-5 spd, letting him at 3 spd at base LOL at level 6) so he's locked to 1 range forever or to bench-level speed still forever even if RNG blessed.

- Rinkah has: real 1-2 range options, with stat boosts on top of it (scrolls/parchments), a world worth of skills to make up for low growth still better than part of the physical cast's magic, 2 activable skills for choice, death blow if you want this subpar skill useless outside PP, she makes any magic weapon she has access to godly with her +9 damage (11 magic at base with those skills), any scroll/parchment like horse spirit godly with her +14 damage to it in lategame and still +9 before that, and she can abuse pavise alongside being bulletproof physically. Now her nodamageness outdamages most of the cast in the magic dpt as well as staying on par with them in physical damage. Don't forget her awesome skill growth that will skyrocket in anything else than oni blob, lancebreaker making her tome wielding even more OP since shuriken/daggers don't reach 1 damage against her for most of the game past the first few levels, well, you have a brick wall, with good to godly offence depending on the ennemies she faces but always a way to deal with any of them (seal res, luna, quixotic for procs), good enough speed in any class (especially out of oni savage, +1 base spd and +5% growth in diviner), and all that without a stat booster, her personal skill being the easiest to trigger in like the whole cast since it requires nearly nothing, while Silas has to put Corrin into danger zone to trigger it.

Oh, I forgot one point, since she barely takes any physical damage without PU, most ennemies will just stand there like sandbags as long as she's in the way to other units. With pavise she doesn't really fear magic anymore, and one seraph robe should let her be the real thing for the whole game. Maybe your talismans should be given to her to let her draw every magic unit at her and kill them like they're nothing in PP (if she didn't autokill them in EP that is...). Horse spirit Rinkah with this build is just bonkers.

You think it's a lot of investment? She can be a cavalier as soon as level 4 and grab elbow room at level 5 and she will already have +7 hybrid damage, and luna already makes her OP alongside seal res, diviner is just making her the most tanky mage in FE history (or so I think), and her ability to have +9/+14 effective magic makes her laugh at Saizo's magic growth. And for PVP you can always max stats her so she has +12/+14 damage on top of capped mag, and maybe horse spirit boost if you use it.

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Give me only one non Ryoma/Xander who has physical bulk, high activation rates, high hit rates, high hybrid damage, every weapon access alongside magic, with a build with a -faire, pavise for magic tanking, and all that while being fast enough to double most ennemies and horse spirit boost easing the spd requirement to do so, with 2 of the best hybrid classes speed/def cap-wise (basara 31 base max spd, oni chieftain 30, basara 30 def, oni 36), and all that without needing to PU to get any of these stats, not only staying relevant for the whole game, but being better as the game goes on (stats-wise and skills-wise). All this with lancebreaker and ninja access if she ever wants to go that way in the end (shurikenfaire replaces tomefaire, +2 spd from shurikens, effective weaponry and magic weapon) or for duplicate if you have to chokepoint 2 areas at the same time. That's wright, except a def blessed magic MU, nobody can do that.

Hayato has non existent skill, no cavalier access outside MU marriage, and shaky tanking stats/ Orochi has low speed, nonexistent physical bulk/ Silas can't access oni savage and diviner at the same time and has nonexistent magic base/growth/ Xander lacks spd and res and can't go magic any time soon for better offence, since most ennemies have higher def than res it's a pity/ Odin is too shaky and needs a DLC class to fix him ASAP (one without magic) and he can't get any useful faire except maybe in axes but berserker isn't the best class to go through if you go hybrid build and he can't get a -faire alongside elbow room (+ no free damage personal skill) unless you make him a swordsmaster but his magic stat will suffer, and his bulk will be awful, and as a dark knight his speed will be unusable past midgame. All these require PU bonuses to even be good/great (no PU Xander is just a powerful tank, he won't double trash ever and his res is far from anything good, alongside no rightful king-like skill for him to abuse pavise, and he can't get quixotic without loosing sword efficiency so his personal weapon goes to waste because lancefaire or tomefaire doesn't help him a lot in his good classes).

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That's all for Rinkah's niche. As you see it's quite the skillset, and only 1 way to get it (marriage + friendship), but it singlehandedly recks the competition as it blows away one stat attackers by being good physically AND magically, offensively AND defensively, and letting many final classes accessible for whatever you prefer (if you're fine with 32 max def, Rinkah can stay basara for +1 spd over oni chieftain, but if you prefer 38 max def over 1 spd and 5 skl, then she can go back to oni chieftain, don't forget pavise activation rate depends on skill and basara gives her 10% growth whereas oni gives 0).

BTW, I wonder why IS made Rinkah's skill cap -2 while she has 50% PERSONAL skill growth and 4 personal base skill, one of the best in all routes...especially for a hard hitting base class unit. I'd trade 2 def cap for 2 skill cap in oni any time, dat base and dat max...

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I see you're still in love with hulking walls of text that ultimately do very little to get your point across...

Anyway, first off, Rinkah starts with E rank in her primary weapon while most other non-Corrin units don't. Second, Oboro's got a seal skill that's actually useful, as opposed to lolsealresistance (who's that gonna help that's actually worth fielding, Corrin [who you're forced to field anyway]? Because that's about the only good answer I can think of, considering that the mages in this game suck). Third, this is foolishness to the extreme:

On 8/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

She can grab lancebreaker, quixotic, rend heaven, tomefaire.

How the hell are you gonna get FOUR (the fourth being Armored Blow) level 15 skills when the game is likely over before you can get one, much less two, without being one of several specific units??? Grind like hell??? Also, Quixotic sucks. Oh, and that and Tomefaire require supporting Orochi, who is one of the worst Hoshidan units thanks to having armor level speed.

On 8/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

So she can get a full passive damage boost build (Fiery blood, elbow room, mag +2, tomefaire) with situational skills (armored blow, rend heaven/luna, quixotic, lancebreaker, pavise, also quixotic makes luna/rend heaven and pavise's activation rate skyrocket with +15% while 30% ennemy hit is totally laughable considering the damage they'll do to her as a paladin/GK/oni savage/blacksmith/basara with her 45% personal def growth carried into any class and her 16 pre-promtion level ups + post promotion).

 Meanwhile Silas needs to marry to get lancefaire for bolt naginata/any lance to be really strong, he has 10% less personal magic growth in a base class with 0% magic growth for bolt naginata to be of any use, 0 personal magic base and scrolls/parchments are a waste on him, + he can't get seal res alongside mag +2, rend heaven, quixotic and tomefaire, his spd growth is 10% lower than Rinkah's in any class with equal base spd and no base class/promotion access to tomes to train it or keep it in, and tomefaire is a waste on him.

Again, why are you mentioning all these skills that aren't gonna be relevant for very long, if at all??? 

On 8/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

So, Silas vs Rinkah:

 - Silas personal def is 2 points higher than Rinkah, but he is 2 levels higher than her and has 5% less growth (don't forget he has 50%, and here it's 50% vs 55% in the cavalier class or 65% in base class, nearly 2 points per 3 level ups, so 8-10 points at level 20 for her vs 7 for him on average, and less RNG praying for Rinkah's def level ups). His magic ability is way lower than hers, his only worthy 1-2 range weapons can't double attack, let ennemies double him very often (-5 spd, letting him at 3 spd at base LOL at level 6) so he's locked to 1 range forever or to bench-level speed still forever even if RNG blessed.

 - Rinkah has: real 1-2 range options, with stat boosts on top of it (scrolls/parchments), a world worth of skills to make up for low growth still better than part of the physical cast's magic, 2 activable skills for choice, death blow if you want this subpar skill useless outside PP, she makes any magic weapon she has access to godly with her +9 damage (11 magic at base with those skills), any scroll/parchment like horse spirit godly with her +14 damage to it in lategame and still +9 before that, and she can abuse pavise alongside being bulletproof physically. Now her nodamageness outdamages most of the cast in the magic dpt as well as staying on par with them in physical damage. Don't forget her awesome skill growth that will skyrocket in anything else than oni blob, lancebreaker making her tome wielding even more OP since shuriken/daggers don't reach 1 damage against her for most of the game past the first few levels, well, you have a brick wall, with good to godly offence depending on the ennemies she faces but always a way to deal with any of them (seal res, luna, quixotic for procs), good enough speed in any class (especially out of oni savage, +1 base spd and +5% growth in diviner), and all that without a stat booster, her personal skill being the easiest to trigger in like the whole cast since it requires nearly nothing, while Silas has to put Corrin into danger zone to trigger it.

 Oh, I forgot one point, since she barely takes any physical damage without PU, most ennemies will just stand there like sandbags as long as she's in the way to other units. With pavise she doesn't really fear magic anymore, and one seraph robe should let her be the real thing for the whole game. Maybe your talismans should be given to her to let her draw every magic unit at her and kill them like they're nothing in PP (if she didn't autokill them in EP that is...). Horse spirit Rinkah with this build is just bonkers.

 You think it's a lot of investment? She can be a cavalier as soon as level 4 and grab elbow room at level 5 and she will already have +7 hybrid damage, and luna already makes her OP alongside seal res, diviner is just making her the most tanky mage in FE history (or so I think), and her ability to have +9/+14 effective magic makes her laugh at Saizo's magic growth. And for PVP you can always max stats her so she has +12/+14 damage on top of capped mag, and maybe horse spirit boost if you use it.

Silas is perfectly capable of killing things on his own. Rinkah and her poor strength usually can't. And this isn't helped by clubs being weak until you get to steel at C rank.

Scrolls aren't that good, and her magic sucks (have fun with Rat Spirit's 3 might coming off a magic stat that is far from respectable!). And for the third time, why the hell are you mentioning a level 15 skill??? Especially one that she can't get on her own since Pavise is a General skill, which she can only get in Revelation. Not that that matters because the game's gonna be over before she can put it to use, as per usual.

IF she's the only one they can attack - they're not so stupid as to stand there ineffectually if someone else comes along that they can attack. Which I find preferable, because those other units can actually do damage without needing the boatloads of special treatment you see fit to spoil Rinkah with.

How are you gonna pull that off? With a lot of grinding??? Also, lolpvp. Luna won't be relevant until the second half of the game. Seal Resistance, as I stated earlier, is worthless - you'll have almost no one it can help.

On 8/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Give me only one non Ryoma/Xander who has physical bulk, high activation rates, high hit rates, high hybrid damage, every weapon access alongside magic, with a build with a -faire, pavise for magic tanking, and all that while being fast enough to double most ennemies and horse spirit boost easing the spd requirement to do so, with 2 of the best hybrid classes speed/def cap-wise (basara 31 base max spd, oni chieftain 30, basara 30 def, oni 36), and all that without needing to PU to get any of these stats, not only staying relevant for the whole game, but being better as the game goes on (stats-wise and skills-wise). All this with lancebreaker and ninja access if she ever wants to go that way in the end (shurikenfaire replaces tomefaire, +2 spd from shurikens, effective weaponry and magic weapon) or for duplicate if you have to chokepoint 2 areas at the same time. That's wright, except a def blessed magic MU, nobody can do that.

Hayato has non existent skill, no cavalier access outside MU marriage, and shaky tanking stats/ Orochi has low speed, nonexistent physical bulk/ Silas can't access oni savage and diviner at the same time and has nonexistent magic base/growth/ Xander lacks spd and res and can't go magic any time soon for better offence, since most ennemies have higher def than res it's a pity/ Odin is too shaky and needs a DLC class to fix him ASAP (one without magic) and he can't get any useful faire except maybe in axes but berserker isn't the best class to go through if you go hybrid build and he can't get a -faire alongside elbow room (+ no free damage personal skill) unless you make him a swordsmaster but his magic stat will suffer, and his bulk will be awful, and as a dark knight his speed will be unusable past midgame. All these require PU bonuses to even be good/great (no PU Xander is just a powerful tank, he won't double trash ever and his res is far from anything good, alongside no rightful king-like skill for him to abuse pavise, and he can't get quixotic without loosing sword efficiency so his personal weapon goes to waste because lancefaire or tomefaire doesn't help him a lot in his good classes).

No unit can have all that, other than Corrin with a LOT of support grinding. Also, both Oni Chieftain and Basara suck - why in the seven hells would I want anything to do with those classes??? Also, Replicate? You're only digging yourself deeper with more level 15 skill mentions.

The mages, as I said earlier, suck. And why the hell would I want Xander to go magic? That's naught but a quarter-baked idea. Also, FYI, most of the classes that have notably more defense than resistance have weaknesses, so Xander doesn't give a damn when he can just use the appropriate weapon (Armorslayer for Generals and Great Knights, Beast Killer for Great Knights, Wyrmslayer for Wyvern Lords).

On 8/8/2019 at 12:54 PM, mangasdeouf said:

That's all for Rinkah's niche. As you see it's quite the skillset, and only 1 way to get it (marriage + friendship), but it singlehandedly recks the competition as it blows away one stat attackers by being good physically AND magically, offensively AND defensively, and letting many final classes accessible for whatever you prefer (if you're fine with 32 max def, Rinkah can stay basara for +1 spd over oni chieftain, but if you prefer 38 max def over 1 spd and 5 skl, then she can go back to oni chieftain, don't forget pavise activation rate depends on skill and basara gives her 10% growth whereas oni gives 0).

Sure, if you give her an assload of stuff I could've used on my actually good units instead of trying to salvage a third-rate scrub.

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I think they put Rinkah so that you'll have an excuse to use clubs. If anything, her sealing skill is good for paving the way for your mages or having a second run with a Bolt Axe. And Death Blow is technically useful critting someone, it doesn't really redeem her. For what it's worth, I benched her for Hana with a Spirit Katana and Oboro.

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Eh. +4 damage from her personal at the low low cost of an HP tonic per-map is extremely good.

Having no built in stack past that and shurikenfaire is extremely bad (this is a common failing of BR units)

Edited by joshcja

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Been a little while since I've played BR or Rev, but I remember that I would always put Rinkah into Witch, because Rinkah has a surprisingly okay set of speed, really good skill and her magic got boosted by Seal Res. Plus even though you restart at E in tomes/scrolls its still about the same number of fights as her E in clubs/axes. I also remember that she can A+ with Orochi to get Diviner, and you can get some more magic skills from there. Not to mention later on she can reclass into Oni Chief for a couple levels to pick up Death blow if you really want.

Of course the next question is, why not just use Witch Orochi? Orochi has a much lower speed growth, but more magic power. You basically trade speed for power, and also Rinkah will have slightly more defense and Orochi will have more HP and Res.

Of course you may just prefer having an epic tank from the DLC, or maybe want to wait for a child character, but there could be an argument of Witch Rinkah over Orochi.

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It seems like Johcja and Palasid understood my thoughts.

Sorry I wrote Pavise? I had Aegis in mind.

Sure level 15 skills are level 15 skills. Still, Rinkah benefits from Silas (+2 def/res, elbow room) and then from Orochi when her def isn't a problem anymore (mag +2, +3 mag/spd so sh can actually double many ennemies just like Hinata when he's recruited if you use a katana/sword that doesn't REDUCE his speed, don't forget Hana will have around the same speed as him at the same level, though her HP, luck and def are all lower in exchange for more accuracy with an already accurate weapon type, and about the same strength at level 10, the res difference isn't so much that she can singlehandedly kill several mages without going in danger zone). Then she get Luna/Rend Heaven.

Basara isn't a bad class, it just has weird growths, that's why you don't stay in it for too long. No problem, as a diviner Rinkah is already tanky enough so in Onmyoji she will do fine and have enough magic growth to stay relevant. With +9 magic damage and diviner/onmyoji's base magic, she already does fine, much better than no spd no def Orochi or no skl Hayato. Hell, she may even have better actual damage output than Hayato who's designed to be a hybrid magic unit (oni 2nd seal, more balanced growths than other mages).

As Palasid said, as a Witch Rinkah get even more magic base and 5% more growth than as a diviner onmyoji, only loosing skill and maybe some luck/res? I don't like Witch though, due to average to under average res and low skill (more on the res part though).

Rinkah just needs some growth and base in magic and res and such non-RNG based skills to improve her damage, and luna will help when it activates once you get it. She can tank fine with one seraph robe, her def growth and diviner's res growth/base, and once you can get pavise you're free.

Silas has mediocre res, very flipcoin spd with an unfixable 8 base at level 6, and can't go to a slower class than his or he'll just never hope to double even a General later on.

In a game where hard mode ennemies have better stats than many of your playable units (and sometimes more balanced like paladins' 16 spd, def and res), I think a unit which can beat most in bulk as well as effective damage (I mean the damage you deal when you add up all the skills, not when you just blindly read one's str/mag stat like many seem to do with Rinkah on every forum I've been on) is very close to being a lead unit.

Hell stop talking about Corrin whose growths you can't balance yourself, it's just a better version of Kana, who's recognized to be a terrible unit with a worthless personal skill which forces him to play dragonstone and stay awful. Corrin's highest stats are skl and spd at base and his/her str is far more worthy than his/her magic even with a +mag, the only way to have better actual magic is to go -str or to switch to a magic class (which at t1 is not beneficial to his/her utility in th team as it makes him/her squishy as hell and his other growths also suffer from it). Corrin has 0 personnal skill boosting his/her non PU damage, s.he needs a bag to even be at full potential, which means you loose 1 unit on the field, 2 if you wouldn't have used Corrin if he/she wasn't forced.

Corrin basically claims 2 unit slots for him/herself for most of the game. His/her Nohr Noble lv 15 skill pushes you even more into this playstyle because it makes him/her access skills he/she doesn't possess if he/she is the lead unit of a PU. Corrin claims to be good, but each time I invest in him/her, just by reclassing I realize how bad he/she is outside his/her personal classline (in ninja strength get completely trash tier, as well as def, in cavalier everything is average but not good, and other cavaliers are better than Corrin in their class, in wyvern it's the same because Corrin completely relies on Nohr Prince.ss base stats to begin with so s.he doesn't have bonus base stats while every single other unit has personal bonus to several stats, so Corrin is completely reliant on coinflip level ups to even do anything outside Prince.ss/Noble dragonstone tanking, nd it's not even that great before you get dragonstone +).

And to grind support ranks in BR/Rev you can do the lowest level ambush so the unit only gains some weapon exp and less than 20 exp per map, so it's not far from a no grind playthrough (I mean it doesn't push her far over what she should be like without this supp grinding), + paralogues still exist even if I don't play most of them many gen 1/2 units are praised just by giving access to such paralogues (exp, weapons and ressources). Corrin gives access to a bullshit difficulty paralogue not doable for a good portion of the game in hard due to promoted ennemies, Awakening level map design and mixed attacks (magic as well at strength) with high weapon ranks and good/effective weaponry (even f...ing dragonslayers). Also you don't control Kana and Kana is stupid (at least in chapter 5 you control Corrin).

Edited by mangasdeouf

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On 8/14/2019 at 9:32 PM, Armchair General said:

I think they put Rinkah so that you'll have an excuse to use clubs. If anything, her sealing skill is good for paving the way for your mages or having a second run with a Bolt Axe. And Death Blow is technically useful critting someone, it doesn't really redeem her. For what it's worth, I benched her for Hana with a Spirit Katana and Oboro.

But who would I be using for magic? Aside from Corrin, of course. And I ask this because most of the mages in this game are... lackluster, to put it nicely.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

And to grind support ranks in BR/Rev you can do the lowest level ambush so the unit only gains some weapon exp and less than 20 exp per map, so it's not far from a no grind playthrough (I mean it doesn't push her far over what she should be like without this supp grinding), + paralogues still exist even if I don't play most of them many gen 1/2 units are praised just by giving access to such paralogues (exp, weapons and ressources). Corrin gives access to a bullshit difficulty paralogue not doable for a good portion of the game in hard due to promoted ennemies, Awakening level map design and mixed attacks (magic as well at strength) with high weapon ranks and good/effective weaponry (even f...ing dragonslayers). Also you don't control Kana and Kana is stupid (at least in chapter 5 you control Corrin).

You mean the same paralogue where most enemy units struggle to so much as dent Kana, and those that are idiot enough to even encroach on their range get their shit wrecked in return? That paralogue? Puh-lease. Also, when do you do said paralogue? Because I don't find it nearly as hard as you think it is. In addition, I don't remember any effective weaponry being on that map, aside from bows. If you wanna whine about a paralogue, go play Shiro's or Ignatius's late in the game. THEN we'll talk.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Corrin basically claims 2 unit slots for him/herself for most of the game. His/her Nohr Noble lv 15 skill pushes you even more into this playstyle because it makes him/her access skills he/she doesn't possess if he/she is the lead unit of a PU. Corrin claims to be good, but each time I invest in him/her, just by reclassing I realize how bad he/she is outside his/her personal classline (in ninja strength get completely trash tier, as well as def, in cavalier everything is average but not good, and other cavaliers are better than Corrin in their class, in wyvern it's the same because Corrin completely relies on Nohr Prince.ss base stats to begin with so s.he doesn't have bonus base stats while every single other unit has personal bonus to several stats, so Corrin is completely reliant on coinflip level ups to even do anything outside Prince.ss/Noble dragonstone tanking, nd it's not even that great before you get dragonstone +).

Nohrian Trust comes much too late to be of much use, as do all level 15 skills.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Sure level 15 skills are level 15 skills. Still, Rinkah benefits from Silas (+2 def/res, elbow room) and then from Orochi when her def isn't a problem anymore (mag +2, +3 mag/spd so sh can actually double many ennemies just like Hinata when he's recruited if you use a katana/sword that doesn't REDUCE his speed, don't forget Hana will have around the same speed as him at the same level, though her HP, luck and def are all lower in exchange for more accuracy with an already accurate weapon type, and about the same strength at level 10, the res difference isn't so much that she can singlehandedly kill several mages without going in danger zone). Then she get Luna/Rend Heaven.

Mentioning Orochi does your already flimsy case no favours, considering she's as terrible as Little Mac's recovery... Also, Luna and Rend Heaven aren't going to be relevant until fairly late (and Rend Heaven is only good for physical vs physical and magic vs magic matchups; that being said, I would rather consider those a bonus than something to actively rely on).

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

As Palasid said, as a Witch Rinkah get even more magic base and 5% more growth than as a diviner onmyoji, only loosing skill and maybe some luck/res? I don't like Witch though, due to average to under average res and low skill (more on the res part though).

Why would I want to use my Witch's Mark on her instead of a unit that can actually do something with magic? This sounds quarter-baked at best.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

 Rinkah just needs some growth and base in magic and res and such non-RNG based skills to improve her damage, and luna will help if it activates once you get it. She can tank fine with one seraph robe, her def growth and diviner's res growth/base, and once you can get pavise you're free.

Fix'd. Also, why metnion Pavise when you can't get it (considering you seem to be talking Birthright, and the only unit that she could possibly get Pavise from is Benny, who she can only marry in Revelation, where she's even worse off)??? And this is ignoring that it's a level 15 skill.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hell stop talking about Corrin whose growths you can't balance yourself, it's just a better version of Kana, who's recognized to be a terrible unit with a worthless personal skill which forces him to play dragonstone and stay awful. Corrin's highest stats are skl and spd at base and his/her str is far more worthy than his/her magic even with a +mag, the only way to have better actual magic is to go -str or to switch to a magic class (which at t1 is not beneficial to his/her utility in th team as it makes him/her squishy as hell and his other growths also suffer from it). Corrin has 0 personnal skill boosting his/her non PU damage, s.he needs a bag to even be at full potential, which means you loose 1 unit on the field, 2 if you wouldn't have used Corrin if he/she wasn't forced.

He's still 1001 times better than Rinkah, because he can actually do something other than tickle enemies with magic. And so is Kana. Also, it's hilarious that you're talking about pair up, because the one thing Rinkah is good for is being pair up fodder. And if Corrin needs a "bag" to be good, which they don't, that's still less than the assload of resources you're pumping into Rinkah.

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Silas has mediocre res, very flipcoin spd with an unfixable 8 base at level 6, and can't go to a slower class than his or he'll just never hope to double even a General later on.

What slower classes does he have access to? Bases wise, the only classes slower than Cavalier are Apothecary, Dark Mage, Knight, General, and Wyvern Rider. None of which he has access to.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Silas has mediocre res, very flipcoin spd with an unfixable 8 base at level 6, and can't go to a slower class than his or he'll just never hope to double even a General later on.

Are Silas's growths that different in Birthright and Conquest? Because in Conquest Silas is the very definition of a great unit. Camilla is better because she is a hack, and the only reason why Xander could be considered better than Silas is Sigfried. Even then, Silas's availability gives him the edge.


 

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Corrin claims to be good, but each time I invest in him/her, just by reclassing I realize how bad he/she is outside his/her personal classline

You are definitely doing something wrong, mate. Cornflakes is broken, by definition.
I actually like her as a Nohr Noble, specially with +Magic. She is so reliable that is boring. And there dozens of builds that are way more powerful.

A message from another thread that also applies here:

On 8/15/2019 at 7:57 PM, starburst said:

Just like my +Magic Nohr Noble Corrinette can solo maps with tomes from Ch 15 onwards, tanks Kitsunes with the Dragon Stone, one-hits Faceless with the Dragon Stone Plus, tanks the roof of Ch 23, defeats Ryoma with Mjölnir and tanks the south room of Ch 26... What Cornflakes can do is not representative of the class she is in. She is broken by design.


 

3 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Corrin gives access to a bullshit difficulty paralogue not doable for a good portion of the game in hard due to promoted ennemies, Awakening level map design and mixed attacks (magic as well at strength) with high weapon ranks and good/effective weaponry (even f...ing dragonslayers). Also you don't control Kana and Kana is stupid (at least in chapter 5 you control Corrin).

Really!? I always complete it by Conquest's Chapter 12, both on Hard and Lunatic, with only ten units, no royals, no grinding, no path bonuses, no nothing. It is so easy and reproducible that it is basically free Experience, perfect for just-recruited children like Ophelia or Nina (who does not gain levels in her own chapter.) I even have to restrain from killing all enemies before the inbreed twins arrive, so that my units can also grab their Experience points.
Go figure.

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8 minutes ago, starburst said:

Are Silas's growths that different in Birthright and Conquest? Because in Conquest Silas is the very definition of a great unit. Camilla is better because she is a hack, and the only reason why Xander could be considered better than Silas is Sigfried. Even then, Silas's availability gives him the edge.

I have a hard time seeing Silas as anything other than in Xander's shadow forever, and his availability doesn't do enough to remedy this. Also, I personally don't put that much value on extra availability; I can even see it as a bad thing if a unit's bad enough on the grounds that that's extra time they're dragging my team down.

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22 minutes ago, Armchair General said:

What's wrong with using Orochi with an forged Tiger Spirit, @Shadow Mir? Because I'm playing Birthright on Lunatic and she's killing off the Dark Knights in the chapter that I'm stuck in.

Her otherwise great offense is crippled because she's so god damn slow. As in, she's so slow she struggles to double freaking armored units. Let that sink in for a while.

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24 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Her otherwise great offense is crippled because she's so god damn slow. As in, she's so slow she struggles to double freaking armored units. Let that sink in for a while.

You do realize that you can't have everything that you want in FE, right? Because I'm looking at Generals with 10 speed right now and she's fortunate enough to have 21 at lv.16. Besides, you shouldn't be letting her attack first, without letting one of the ninjas or someone with Seal Speed or Res probing the enemy beforehand..

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13 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

As Palasid said, as a Witch Rinkah get even more magic base and 5% more growth than as a diviner onmyoji, only loosing skill and maybe some luck/res? I don't like Witch though, due to average to under average res and low skill (more on the res part though).

Witch is a staggeringly broken class no matter who becomes it, Rinkah or otherwise.

13 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Corrin basically claims 2 unit slots for him/herself for most of the game. His/her Nohr Noble lv 15 skill pushes you even more into this playstyle because it makes him/her access skills he/she doesn't possess if he/she is the lead unit of a PU. Corrin claims to be good, but each time I invest in him/her, just by reclassing I realize how bad he/she is outside his/her personal classline (in ninja strength get completely trash tier, as well as def, in cavalier everything is average but not good, and other cavaliers are better than Corrin in their class, in wyvern it's the same because Corrin completely relies on Nohr Prince.ss base stats to begin with so s.he doesn't have bonus base stats while every single other unit has personal bonus to several stats, so Corrin is completely reliant on coinflip level ups to even do anything outside Prince.ss/Noble dragonstone tanking, nd it's not even that great before you get dragonstone +).

Corrin doesn't have to claim 2 unit slots, and even when s/he gets Nohrian Unity it is only really useful for cheesing more procable skills on the final Takumi fight, and you completely gloss over her/him getting the best lv 5 class skill draconic hex. His/her personal skill is one of the best support skills in the game, and you should get as many units you can to use it with attack stances. Despite your claims otherwise Corrin does have personal bonuses to several stats even at level 1, and some of those are determined by boon and bane (in case you are curious its +2 Hp, +1Mag, +3 Skl, +1 Spd, +3 Lck, +1 Def , The boon/bane add on top of these like so: HP, Magic, Skill or Luck picked as Boon/Bane: +3/-2: Strength or Speed picked as Boon/Bane: +2/-1; Defence or Resistance picked as Boon/Bane: +1/-1). The Yato starts buffing those stats soon enough, and Corrin has some great personal growths anyway. As for your class changing, Ninja literally has the lowest base strength of any physical class, and those that were given that class at base had to be given stupidly high personal strength bases to keep from being unusable, and most other units you found some way to force into that class would also have trash tier strength. As for reclassing to Cavalier or Wyvern, it depends on the bane/boon, for instance a speed boon luck bane Corrin on average is faster than any of the base class Wyverns (even if we don't start adding the stats for having the Yato in the inventory).

16 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Silas has mediocre res, very flipcoin spd with an unfixable 8 base at level 6, and can't go to a slower class than his or he'll just never hope to double even a General later on.

You are vastly underselling Silas's speed, and if you think coin flip growths are bad let me list all the grows from Rinkah's base class that are coin flips or worse: HP, strength, magic, skill, luck, and resistance.

 

7 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

I have a hard time seeing Silas as anything other than in Xander's shadow forever, and his availability doesn't do enough to remedy this.

Silas doesn't have embarrassingly bad speed like Xander does, and if Xander didn't have that amazingly broken sword of his I would prefer Silas.

8 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Her otherwise great offense is crippled because she's so god damn slow. As in, she's so slow she struggles to double freaking armored units. Let that sink in for a while. 

I find this comment ironic after the Xander praise.

 

 

As for the question at hand, I think its time to throw in my two cents as someone that brought Rinkah to Birthright Lunatic endgame on a female only run. Now I don't generally squander many resources repeatedly reclassing units so I will mostly talk about what units can do in their base classes here. Rinkahs main niche is that she has amazing defense, and plenty of speed. Unfortunately axe/clubs do not have a weapon Rinkah can use to improve that, and with the guard naginata Oboro can generally reach a similar or slightly higher level of bulk. Oboro even has a more useful seal skill for the simple reason that more classes and units specialize in physicl attacks than magical (and that isn't even mentioning the speed seal that is better than both that she gets latter). The mixed attacking of Oni Chieftain gives her only one favor, and that is access to the horse spirit, so she can finally hit defense numbers higher than Oboro with the guard naginata, but getting there is a bit of a chore, and is either a fairly late game gain, or takes a lot of resources. That mixed attacking otherwise gives her mediocre physical damage, or mediocre magic damage after an enemy is sealed, and while Death Blow is nice, its not very significant without killer weapons, which are harder to come by in Birthright. Her main niche is to be a second Birthright unit that isn't made of wet tissue paper, and that makes her an alright unit to bring along.

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48 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I find this comment ironic after the Xander praise.

What the hell does Orochi have going for her to make up for being so slow, then? Because Xander doesn't give a damn about pretty much anything physical.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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3 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

And yet his otherwise great offense is crippled because he's so god damn slow.

Sure, but he at least has SOMETHING to make up for it. Orochi, on the other hand, has got bupkis.

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On 8/18/2019 at 1:37 PM, Shadow Mir said:

Sure, but he at least has SOMETHING to make up for it. Orochi, on the other hand, has got bupkis.

Well, if you want to go into comparisons:

Royals:

heirs to the throne: cheat personal weapon, high base stats, good growths, 1 level from gaining their 1st t2 skill, each in one of the best classes in their respective army especially when they don't suffer from the 1-2 range drawbacks.

big sis/bro: Camilla has so high base stats for her level (especially in speed since wyverns aren't fast enough to get around 20 spd after promotion, alongside good str and def and she even has res) which make her instantly OP just because she's been favored. She also has good growths. Takumi (I prefer comparing him to Camilla than Hinoka) has decent bases but is slow enough not to double a lot of ennemies for a good protion of the game, although his bow is so OP it singlehandedly makes him Reina's equal in some scenarios, and he gains levels faster than Reina to match her stats one day and maybe outclass her, + free walk over any traversable terrain.

dark bro/light sis: Leo is not far from being anything you want a magic unit to be: not one shootable, accurate enough to hit, not far from doubling, has a personal weapon although it's average, a sword weapon rank (doesn't he?) and enough hybrid stats to be playable as well with swords than with magic. Seeing his stats, he might even be a better levin sword user than anyone else.

Hinoka at base is...just a guard naginata user, but well she can tank mages and that's big for chapter 9 BR where hard+ mages basically 2HKO most of your units and they come every 2nd turn, and it's not Saizo or Kaze who will kill them cuz Saizo tanks them pretty bad while Kaze won't kill them except if you hackforged like Awakening lunatic ennemies' +4 weapons or if you had very high luck on his str + res lvl ups (since he still needs more than his base res to tank more than 2-3 hits), you want him to kill the mages in 1 fight, not 2. Hinoka is a godsend for that fight. But her str is awfully low for her level (like personal str is trash, barely better than Subaki who starts lower level than her to close the gap if he get lucky) so she has to class change to make anything out of her, and loosing her movement advantage over most of the cast isn't making her any favor in a game with so many usable units and her servant needing a seal far more than her since Azama outclasses her in everything but spd/lck/res in which he's good enough anyway for most of the game (although Azama's so good he will be amazing even if you don't seal him and outclass most of your physical units anyway, just give him a go).

Little sis: Elise is everything but well rounded: out of the ceiling magic, luck and res stats, average speed, low hp str skl def. At least she can kill with E rank tomes and her secondary class is also good for her if you want her to be a fighter and to use her personal more than once per chapter. Sakura is well rounded while being above average in nearly everything. Your Est archetype starting as a healer (but why bother when Azama can heal as much with better staves while being more of a frontline healer and killing ennemies by himself with E ranks?).

Rest of the cast:

Prepromotes: Reina starts good but can fall off easily with RNG and lack of support options, Scarlet is busted like Camilla but physical only, and late joiners are filler units, some of them better than their counterparts (or at least better rounded than say Orochi, Hayato and co.).

Jakob: Jagen/Oifei, his growths lack consistence but his skill access and his stats make him still useful.

Other units:

good/useful units:

Rinkah has def, she's a knight with 5/6 move, her personal let her damage things and do weird builds like the one I've suggested in this thread.

Kaze can kill mages but falls off, replaced with Kagero who can kill almost everything in 1 try.

Saizo is Oboro but ninja, with magic.

Oboro is good and stays good, although don't expect lots of double attacks, unlike Effie her base speed is good but her growth is under average especially for BR averages.

Subaki is a serviceable unit, playable in many ways, who likes any stat booster you can throw at him. He's weird in every possible way.

Orochi is a truck made human, it never misses a victim to send into anoher generic isekai, but it hits only once then the driver runs away before the police comes and catches him.

Hayato is a bit like Sakura, except he starts worse and his skill will lack forever.

Hinata is your go to mercenary with samurai skills and a bit low skill, a hero with better t1 skill and lack of regen skills (not like he would proc it too often anyway).

Hana is Kagero without 1-2 range (but if you want she can outclass Kagero by actually activating skills as a ninja and having better skill/luck and even speed).

Silas is...well, he's everything and nothing, like Subaki with better offence and fighting abilities but with less utility (rally speed>>>>>rally skill, cav lv 10 skl = flight, staff>>>no support utility at all, warding blow = armored blow if that counts, but I think it's more useful since 20 res is important to kill mages while 10 def is only serviceable since most physical fights happen on EP)

Effie: she hits hard (when she hits), has average def (definitely worse than you would expect from a knight, in her joining chapter if she get sealed speed she's dead in 1 turncuz CQ ennemies hit like trucks and abuse poison strike/grizzly wound), shit base speed she has to make up for with good growth but as a knight it doesn't salvage her (only useful when promoted into GK when she finally has speed), can't take any magic hit (one physical + 1 magical is probably her death), her HP is shit for a knight (especially low hp alongside average def and low res means she doesn't tank like a knight should), she's completely in the wrong class and her seal doesn't help her at all with a support magical class.

Arthur: actually better than Effie in several things: HP, weapon type (less weak to shuriken and yumi), speed, skl (although axes hurt), he can hope to double attack a few ennemies Effie won't double before promotion, that's better than nothing, and if he's the lead of the duo, he has approximately the same def as her (with better HP and speed) so he's a better tank. Give him the luck items if you wanna use him, and I think hero is the way to go (no -15 crit evade please). As a cavalier he beats Silas in HP forever, he has better offence (if he grabbed lv 10 fighter skill that is), samey def, less res and luck, fighter>mercenary except if you want Silas to go bow knight.

Owain: well rounded but starts really far from blessed, totally underlevelled (1 or 2 levels lower than the units who joined in the previous chapter, 3 levels lower than his buddy Niles) but it's workable, base stats are really not amazing. Correct growths, but will he really outclass Leo?

Niles: if only their classes were swapped, they both would be so much better...still good at killing pegasi, a little less at killing wyverns but does he even fight any?

Nyx: Elise but worse. Her stats are trash for her level, she will never get back the 2-3 points of magic/spd/res she would like to have over her bases at level 9. More a backpack than anything with her stupidly low hit rates even with E-ranks, cuz tomes nerfed into the ground.

Beruka: Good tank if she doesn't get doubled, still more effective at tanking than Effie, a personal that can be abused but more if you give her a dread scroll than in her base class. Finally an axe wielder who can hit things reliably.

Selena: Quite comparable to Hinata but in the mercenary class with better skill stat.

Peri: Kagero with a horse and no shurikens. Starts worse than Kagero though...

Laslow: more supportive than offensive, even if his str is correct.

Charlotte: berserker concept: stupid hp/str with good spd, low/average skl/luck, low def/res (as in unusable), a ideal backpack for cheated princes.

Benny: the best tank but too tanky to be focused sadly. He can still draw the ennemy mages without dying too fast. He can actually tank the wolfskin/ninetails, unlike horse units who will get burst. (especially Silas/Effie/Peri if you play her, Xander should be alright if he doesn't take 3+ at a time I guess, didn't go so far into CQ). Unlike Effie, he has a good skill stat, so he can activate skills often and hit reliably with steel.

Metamorph:

Kaden: weak but can actually kill mages as well as cavaliers, the only one able to do that is Kagero and she doesn't have as much res as he does (does she?).

Keaton: A replacement to Effie, same stat repartition with better base speed, HP, skl, and better class skills (at least he has a regen skill in t2), can kill horses but eh, not many horse ennemies in CQ...a hero before you have one. He's Arthur made right but sadly needs a seal to get any 1-2 or just 2 range weapon.

- - - - -

TL;DR: Rinkah isn't Xander/Ryoma or even Keaton tier, she isn't Nyx tier either, she has a few niches she can do well in, as the one I've presented here, and the one of highest def in Hoshido in her base class + best axe user in the blacksmith class (Hinata lacks personal skl base+growth to use axes/clubs and most of the others don't want axes anyway since there are 2 guard naginata or maybe 3 in late game). Her base stats aren't stellar, her growths are weird, but she's fine and better at magic than the other Hoshido magic units except maybe Sakura who's well rounded but less tanky anyway. Only if you want to invest into a marriage/buddy seal (support grinding isn't as annoying as people make it to appear and you don't have to give too much exp to get to S/A+ or even both with cheap and low level encounters/castle battles).

And for people who prefer Oni chieftain to Blacksmith:  blacksmith has +7 base/max skill and +15% growth over oni chieftain, +1 base/max speed, +2 base hp and +10% growth, +3 base luck +5 max and +5% growth over chieftain, at the cost of 2 base 4 max def and 5% growth, and 3 res base 4 max and 5% growth, alongside 1 str base/max and 5% growth, 5 mag base and 15% growth. Better physical unit all the way, especially if you expect to hit someone.

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On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Jakob: Jagen/Oifei, his growths lack consistence but his skill access and his stats make him still useful.

No mention of Felicia? Because not everyone prefers to play as a female Corrin.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

big sis/bro: Camilla has so high base stats for her level (especially in speed since wyverns aren't fast enough to get around 20 spd after promotion, alongside good str and def and she even has res) which make her instantly OP just because she's been favored. She also has good growths. Takumi (I prefer comparing him to Camilla than Hinoka) has decent bases but is slow enough not to double a lot of ennemies for a good protion of the game, although his bow is so OP it singlehandedly makes him Reina's equal in some scenarios, and he gains levels faster than Reina to match her stats one day and maybe outclass her, + free walk over any traversable terrain.

I fail to see how Takumi is comparable to Camilla - they're different classes, and the latter starts overpowered (though that might have been on purpose).

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Hinoka at base is...just a guard naginata user, but well she can tank mages and that's big for chapter 9 BR where hard+ mages basically 2HKO most of your units and they come every 2nd turn, and it's not Saizo or Kaze who will kill them cuz Saizo tanks them pretty bad while Kaze won't kill them except if you hackforged like Awakening lunatic ennemies' +4 weapons or if you had very high luck on his str + res lvl ups (since he still needs more than his base res to tank more than 2-3 hits), you want him to kill the mages in 1 fight, not 2. Hinoka is a godsend for that fight. But her str is awfully low for her level (like personal str is trash, barely better than Subaki who starts lower level than her to close the gap if he get lucky) so she has to class change to make anything out of her, and loosing her movement advantage over most of the cast isn't making her any favor in a game with so many usable units and her servant needing a seal far more than her since Azama outclasses her in everything but spd/lck/res in which he's good enough anyway for most of the game (although Azama's so good he will be amazing even if you don't seal him and outclass most of your physical units anyway, just give him a go).

Yeah, let's ignore that Subaki loses almost everywhere else bases wise, and only ties in several stats, because that's certainly what you're doing. Growth wise, he loses in the more important stats (speed especially). About the only instance I can see Subaki as better is in Revelation, where he doesn't have to deal with Hinoka rendering him obsolete after one chapter... except he now has to deal with Camilla rendering him obsolete instead (aka, from bad to worse). And this is ignoring Reina and his daughter, too. 

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Little sis: Elise is everything but well rounded: out of the ceiling magic, luck and res stats, average speed, low hp str skl def. At least she can kill with E rank tomes and her secondary class is also good for her if you want her to be a fighter and to use her personal more than once per chapter. Sakura is well rounded while being above average in nearly everything. Your Est archetype starting as a healer (but why bother when Azama can heal as much with better staves while being more of a frontline healer and killing ennemies by himself with E ranks?).

First off, there is no such thing as an Est "archetype" these days. Second, Sakura has a great personal skill, as opposed to Azama's garbage one.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Rinkah has def, she's a knight with 5/6 move, her personal let her damage things and do weird builds like the one I've suggested in this thread.

Except she has a very bad start, with her being better off used as a pair up bot in chapter 4, being WTD'd against literally everything in chapter 5, and chapter 6 twists the knife even further because the most valuable targets in terms of exp force her to suffer WTD. Don't get me started on her performance in Revelation (Spoiler alert: It's awful).

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Subaki is a serviceable unit, playable in many ways, who likes any stat booster you can throw at him. He's weird in every possible way.

A "serviceable unit"... that compares unfavorably against pretty much every other flying unit that you can get, you mean. Especially in Birthright, where Hinoka renders him obsolete all of one chapter after he joins.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

 Kaze can kill mages but falls off, replaced with Kagero who can kill almost everything in 1 try.

To say Kagero can kill almost everything in one try is bullshit, and you know it. How's she gonna kill wyvern lords or generals in one round? Hope to get lucky with lolethality and its loltastic activation rate?

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Prepromotes: Reina starts good but can fall off easily with RNG and lack of support options, Scarlet is busted like Camilla but physical only, and late joiners are filler units, some of them better than their counterparts (or at least better rounded than say Orochi, Hayato and co.).

Bold: Is being physical only a problem? Because I don't think it is.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Silas is...well, he's everything and nothing, like Subaki with better offence and fighting abilities but with less utility (rally speed>>>>>rally skill, cav lv 10 skl = flight, staff>>>no support utility at all, warding blow = armored blow if that counts, but I think it's more useful since 20 res is important to kill mages while 10 def is only serviceable since most physical fights happen on EP)

The thing is, Silas can do more than just tickle non-mages. Also, does Warding Blow even matter much? If I've told you once, I've told you a trillion times, level 15 skills might as well be irrelevant since they're not helping you for very long, if at all, so what does it matter if Warding Blow is better?

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Hana is Kagero without 1-2 range (but if you want she can outclass Kagero by actually activating skills as a ninja and having better skill/luck and even speed).

OR I could have her go archer instead and use actually powerful weapons.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

Effie: she hits hard (when she hits), has average def (definitely worse than you would expect from a knight, in her joining chapter if she get sealed speed she's dead in 1 turncuz CQ ennemies hit like trucks and abuse poison strike/grizzly wound), shit base speed she has to make up for with good growth but as a knight it doesn't salvage her (only useful when promoted into GK when she finally has speed), can't take any magic hit (one physical + 1 magical is probably her death), her HP is shit for a knight (especially low hp alongside average def and low res means she doesn't tank like a knight should), she's completely in the wrong class and her seal doesn't help her at all with a support magical class.

The irony is that she's better at dealing with that than anyone else - care to guess how Silas, or anyone else for that matter, would fare when he's out 6 speed???

On 8/25/2019 at 4:50 PM, mangasdeouf said:

 Arthur: actually better than Effie in several things: HP, weapon type (less weak to shuriken and yumi), speed, skl (although axes hurt), he can hope to double attack a few ennemies Effie won't double before promotion, that's better than nothing, and if he's the lead of the duo, he has approximately the same def as her (with better HP and speed) so he's a better tank. Give him the luck items if you wanna use him, and I think hero is the way to go (no -15 crit evade please). As a cavalier he beats Silas in HP forever, he has better offence (if he grabbed lv 10 fighter skill that is), samey def, less res and luck, fighter>mercenary except if you want Silas to go bow knight.

Except he's not, considering that he pretty much requires bronze glued to him if you don't want him to die to some grunt sneaking a crit in (and that's only a temporary solution at best). Also, because of his personal, goddess icons don't help his situation - he goes from being crit fodder to being crit fodder.

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Let me show everyone my Rinkah afcq66yuj7cs51z4g.jpg, she's a very strong unit IMO, my only advice is to make sure she's level 20  before making her a chieftain, if you choose to, her growths basically get worse for the magic stat, her growths look better to me as a blacksmith. (This was on Lunatic mode by the way.)

Edited by Fates-Blade

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15 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

No mention of Felicia? Because not everyone prefers to play as a female Corrin.

I often play male Corrin, and Felicia is only used if I want to build her for the whole game, anyway she falls off so fast it isn't even funny, and as a tactician...well she's just worse than Elise so why give her a seal? Hoshido has enough 15 healers not to need a healer who can't fight for a third of the game although her design was to be able to contribute to the fights before healers promote...just give Azama a master seal so he can fight and heal and be a better fighter than 70% of the cast.

I fail to see how Takumi is comparable to Camilla - they're different classes, and the latter starts overpowered (though that might have been on purpose).

He comes with a cheat weapon, she comes with cheat stats, they both cross terrain like a garden, even though Tacotac doesn't fly, they both destroy flyers, they both join early, they both have enough growths alongside their bases to stay relevant or become beasts through the whole game. They both hit like trucks. Reina doesn't benefit from quick draw, sadly, so she can't compete with Tacotac in the long run (+ he has way more def growth than she will ever hope) and he doesn't need 2 hits to kill most things he's supposed to kill (ninjas after a few level ups/a strength booster, flyers fall like flies, even Wyverns who can't hope to counter attack with throwing weapons cuz they're already dead, sorcerors I suppose and maybe even dark knights but I doubt it, it would be too easy).

Yeah, let's ignore that Subaki loses almost everywhere else bases wise, and only ties in several stats, because that's certainly what you're doing. Growth wise, he loses in the more important stats (speed especially). About the only instance I can see Subaki as better is in Revelation, where he doesn't have to deal with Hinoka rendering him obsolete after one chapter... except he now has to deal with Camilla rendering him obsolete instead (aka, from bad to worse). And this is ignoring Reina and his daughter, too.

I don't play with most of the child units (only a little of Selkie/Velouria, Percy and Sophie until today, I'd like Soleil to come before chapter 10 but well, her father appears around chapter 12 so it's hopeless, I'm bored before reaching him or just in his trash joining map that I hate because you have a limited number of turns with both dangerous mobs of ennemies and stupid breaking mechanics that can put you in deep shit if you don't like playing chess (I mean planning 5 turns forward at least)) so we have Hinoka who beats him in res and speed, supposedly in strength but I have yet to see a strong Hinoka before promotion (used her 3x, she's so boring as a character while not wanting to proc much strength and barely decent skill level ups, while Subaki just loves his joke weapon with which he can use it's passive even on promoted ennemies for 8-12 MT, a free nearly steel without spd penalty/nearly silver without the stupid debuff part, if you're lucky enough to have it +2...mwahahahaha! The highest skl unit in the game has a legendary weapon at the cost of a few materials, that's all, without any drawback...and +3...I'll stop here because we all know it would take days and months of farming to get enough Subaki's Pikes to push it to +3 for a juicy 20 MT...)

BTW highest skl means highest proc rates too, so your "he doesn't deal damage" while Hinoka barely beats him in base str and a little more in growth but with 3 levels less to make it count...she has about the same str as him when Subaki reaches her level, she only has like...3-4 more str than him by the end of the main game? And 0 proc skill unless she stops by Basara, which she doesn't like too much and basara's active kinda sucks on 80% of the ennemy classes...so yeah, that's it, Subaki reclasses once, get duellist blow/vantage/astra, maybe seal str because why not, and he's ready to roll with an insane skill build (haha that pun).

First off, there is no such thing as an Est "archetype" these days. Second, Sakura has a great personal skill, as opposed to Azama's garbage one.

Hayato, Mozu, Donnel, Lucina to an extent (she joins underperforming for several levels before she can be useful by herself and finally be good, far more of a bullet in the foot than Mozu who can instantly get good stats with a seal or get 5-7 level ups, at least 5 in her joining map, and surpass Silas in almost every stat except str and maybe HP,, while tying him on def and res, as a villager, meanwhie giving Silas her map exp would make him gain, what...2 levels? 2.5? not game changing at any rate since he will grow like 1 point everywhere, Jakob is better than no VoF Silas and actually gives stats to Corrin instead of pleading his cause for her to take >50% of her hp as damage so he can use his personal and be better than average), Setsuna (although she lacks the growths maybe?), most child units are also Ests.

Except she has a very bad start, with her being better off used as a pair up bot in chapter 4, being WTD'd against literally everything in chapter 5, and chapter 6 twists the knife even further because the most valuable targets in terms of exp force her to suffer WTD. Don't get me started on her performance in Revelation (Spoiler alert: It's awful).

In chapter 4 she's on the top for tanking before kaze finishes the off, so she get some exp and maybe one kill if i can spread the exp like I want. In chapter 5, you have enough means to make her contribute (both can attack stance, Azura dance, Sakura heal and they give their auras), in chapter 6 just use Takumi on Leo to let him with 1 HP, then use Rinkah with Takumi attack stance and he finishes the job while she get the exp, repeat with Camilla, anyone enjoys takumi's attack stance in this champter because he nearly one shoots anything other than Xander OFC.

A "serviceable unit"... that compares unfavorably against pretty much every other flying unit that you can get, you mean. Especially in Birthright, where Hinoka renders him obsolete all of one chapter after he joins.

She still doesn't tank physical hits as well as him, and physical ennemies are much more numerous than magical ones. Her supposed better offense is a myth that comes true by the end of the game and Subaki has enough speed with Darting blow to double what he needs to double (sure if you try to kill a general with Subaki it will take an hour and a half, but you're not supposed to go for generals with pegasi in the first place...and when your Subaki has astra and an anti armor weapon if there is a lance for that in Hoshido, he basically owns Hinoka in the damage area, and he can do the same with the armor killer I think we get in chapter 7, isn't it? as an Oni if he marries Rinkah he becomes insane with excellent base stats and good growths, much more HP than Rinkah and a hotfix for his speed while hers has to hit the RNG with her club).

To say Kagero can kill almost everything in one try is bullshit, and you know it. How's she gonna kill wyvern lords or generals in one round? Hope to get lucky with lolethality and its loltastic activation rate?

Trolling or not trolling? she has 15 base strength at level 10, armor killing shuriken, C base rank, can wield steel double (mwahahahaha I'm so funny) after a few level ups, she's one of the few units who can kill with iron shurikens, her offense is close to Takumi's...except she has unscrewable speed growth.

Bold: Is being physical only a problem? Because I don't think it is.

It means you're less polyvalent, which can be annoying at times. A camilla with bolt axe will be much more dangerous than a Scarlet with a bolt axe.

The thing is, Silas can do more than just tickle non-mages. Also, does Warding Blow even matter much? If I've told you once, I've told you a trillion times, level 15 skills might as well be irrelevant since they're not helping you for very long, if at all, so what does it matter if Warding Blow is better?

Silas has damage, sure, what he lacks is speed to use it, res starting very low even if it's high for a physical unit, and his reclass option doesn't help him, opposite to Subaki who can make samurai skills very useful and activate proc skills more often (although astra has less proc rate than sol, the latter doesn't increase damage) and his hp regen isn't luck based. Rinkah has more def than Silas without VoF on average, more speed also, not by a large margin but it could be enough to double, and she can grab lockpick and poison strike for utility/tank role. Rinkah doesn't loose movement by reclassing.

OR I could have her go archer instead and use actually powerful weapons.

Except you just have a worse Kagero who can't counter at 1 range? And with less res growth?

The irony is that she's better at dealing with that than anyone else - care to guess how Silas, or anyone else for that matter, would fare when he's out 6 speed???

I didn't understand. Deal with what? tanking physical hits? killing mages? The day she misses you waste her turn and the healer's as well cuz she's down to 20% HP in one hit from a magic user. And when a chapter 7 mob can double her for 60+ % of her HP, as an early game knight, I feel ashamed for her, especially as a bodyguard. Fates lacks the terrain to use effectively the lv 10 knight skill, so her def will be RNG forever. At least I can send a grown Benny into spear fighters and eat pop corn while watching the ennemies tickle him when he's under seal def.

Except he's not, considering that he pretty much requires bronze glued to him if you don't want him to die to some grunt sneaking a crit in (and that's only a temporary solution at best). Also, because of his personal, goddess icons don't help his situation - he goes from being crit fodder to being crit fodder.

I prefer taking a crit every 5 chapters than getting hit 2x by 50% of the ennemies and still getting hurt by their weak ass weapons. At least Arthur has HP AND DEF so he doesn't suffer too much in complicated situation. His base HP is quite close to Effie's lv 20 HP, please be real. + he can learn sol in his base classline and his son invalidates his bad luck if you play them close to each other. And he has a funny personality, whereas Effie is all about eating and breaking coconuts as if it helped protecting Elise.

@Fates-Blade Nice Rinkah, I wouldn't have believed she would reach so high values in mag/res, did you stat bonus her?

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1 hour ago, mangasdeouf said:

@Fates-Blade Nice Rinkah, I wouldn't have believed she would reach so high values in mag/res, did you stat bonus her?

I don't remember, my playthrough of Birthright was like 5 or more months ago, I don't think she did, but to be on the safe side I'll say she may have. I still I don't recall pitting her against magic users, because fundamentally her Res and equipment isn't fit for that. Also, I think her Scroll usability is low, because of the Dual Club, and Bolt Axe which is dropped by a Berserker at Chapter 14 of BR, since they both get the WPN Rank Bonuses.

Edited by Fates-Blade

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6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I often play male Corrin, and Felicia is only used if I want to build her for the whole game, anyway she falls off so fast it isn't even funny, and as a tactician...well she's just worse than Elise so why give her a seal? Hoshido has enough 15 healers not to need a healer who can't fight for a third of the game although her design was to be able to contribute to the fights before healers promote...just give Azama a master seal so he can fight and heal and be a better fighter than 70% of the cast.

Or maybe you don't know how to get the use out of her that I do. Sure, let's go with that. Oh yeah, and remember what I keep saying about level 15 skills? She's one of the few units that can actually use them for a noteworthy length of time.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

He comes with a cheat weapon, she comes with cheat stats, they both cross terrain like a garden, even though Tacotac doesn't fly, they both destroy flyers, they both join early, they both have enough growths alongside their bases to stay relevant or become beasts through the whole game. They both hit like trucks. Reina doesn't benefit from quick draw, sadly, so she can't compete with Tacotac in the long run (+ he has way more def growth than she will ever hope) and he doesn't need 2 hits to kill most things he's supposed to kill (ninjas after a few level ups/a strength booster, flyers fall like flies, even Wyverns who can't hope to counter attack with throwing weapons cuz they're already dead, sorcerors I suppose and maybe even dark knights but I doubt it, it would be too easy).

Here's the problem: Takumi can only do it once per turn at most because he has no enemy phase, which hurts him relative to Reina.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I don't play with most of the child units (only a little of Selkie/Velouria, Percy and Sophie until today, I'd like Soleil to come before chapter 10 but well, her father appears around chapter 12 so it's hopeless, I'm bored before reaching him or just in his trash joining map that I hate because you have a limited number of turns with both dangerous mobs of ennemies and stupid breaking mechanics that can put you in deep shit if you don't like playing chess (I mean planning 5 turns forward at least)) so we have Hinoka who beats him in res and speed, supposedly in strength but I have yet to see a strong Hinoka before promotion (used her 3x, she's so boring as a character while not wanting to proc much strength and barely decent skill level ups, while Subaki just loves his joke weapon with which he can use it's passive even on promoted ennemies for 8-12 MT, a free nearly steel without spd penalty/nearly silver without the stupid debuff part, if you're lucky enough to have it +2...mwahahahaha! The highest skl unit in the game has a legendary weapon at the cost of a few materials, that's all, without any drawback...and +3...I'll stop here because we all know it would take days and months of farming to get enough Subaki's Pikes to push it to +3 for a juicy 20 MT...)

BTW highest skl means highest proc rates too, so your "he doesn't deal damage" while Hinoka barely beats him in base str and a little more in growth but with 3 levels less to make it count...she has about the same str as him when Subaki reaches her level, she only has like...3-4 more str than him by the end of the main game? And 0 proc skill unless she stops by Basara, which she doesn't like too much and basara's active kinda sucks on 80% of the ennemy classes...so yeah, that's it, Subaki reclasses once, get duellist blow/vantage/astra, maybe seal str because why not, and he's ready to roll with an insane skill build (haha that pun).

As for Subaki's weapon, I could just as easily give it to anyone else, so I wouldn't go around parading it as a positive for him. Also, said weapon is only acquired randomly. Good luck with that. Personality has nothing to do with how a unit performs on the battlefield, so I don't see why you think that's relevant.

Procs aren't reliable. And skill isn't exactly one of the stats I would want to specialize in, because point for point, one point of skill is worth less than one point of almost anything else. Also, I don't see samurai as the big upgrade that you think it is for Subaki.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Hayato, Mozu, Donnel, Lucina to an extent (she joins underperforming for several levels before she can be useful by herself and finally be good, far more of a bullet in the foot than Mozu who can instantly get good stats with a seal or get 5-7 level ups, at least 5 in her joining map, and surpass Silas in almost every stat except str and maybe HP,, while tying him on def and res, as a villager, meanwhie giving Silas her map exp would make him gain, what...2 levels? 2.5? not game changing at any rate since he will grow like 1 point everywhere, Jakob is better than no VoF Silas and actually gives stats to Corrin instead of pleading his cause for her to take >50% of her hp as damage so he can use his personal and be better than average), Setsuna (although she lacks the growths maybe?), most child units are also Ests.

Now you're just using "Est" as a buzzword for "underleveled unit". Anyway, the problem with Mozu is that she requires a lot of investment that could have gone to anyone else and made them better. And to say that Lucina needs more babying than Mozu is a big case of "open mouth, insert foot", especially if you're advocating trying to feed her 5 levels or more in her opening map, because last I checked, Mozu doesn't come with an infinite use weapon that has silver sword level might.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

In chapter 4 she's on the top for tanking before kaze finishes the off, so she get some exp and maybe one kill if i can spread the exp like I want. In chapter 5, you have enough means to make her contribute (both can attack stance, Azura dance, Sakura heal and they give their auras), in chapter 6 just use Takumi on Leo to let him with 1 HP, then use Rinkah with Takumi attack stance and he finishes the job while she get the exp, repeat with Camilla, anyone enjoys takumi's attack stance in this champter because he nearly one shoots anything other than Xander OFC.

OR I could use her as a pair up bot for Kaze, because her prospects for being useful are dim.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

She still doesn't tank physical hits as well as him, and physical ennemies are much more numerous than magical ones. Her supposed better offense is a myth that comes true by the end of the game and Subaki has enough speed with Darting blow to double what he needs to double (sure if you try to kill a general with Subaki it will take an hour and a half, but you're not supposed to go for generals with pegasi in the first place...and when your Subaki has astra and an anti armor weapon if there is a lance for that in Hoshido, he basically owns Hinoka in the damage area, and he can do the same with the armor killer I think we get in chapter 7, isn't it? as an Oni if he marries Rinkah he becomes insane with excellent base stats and good growths, much more HP than Rinkah and a hotfix for his speed while hers has to hit the RNG with her club).

Who's "she" supposed to refer to? Because from where I'm standing, it could refer to one of at least three units. All of whom Subaki doesn't hold a candle to, mind you. And if Subaki's reliant on Darting Blow to double, that means his enemy phase sucks because he's only getting one hit in, as opposed to someone who can actually double and kill enemies on enemy phase. Once again, weapons, other than the Yato and the divine weapons, can be used by anyone, so your treating the armorslayer as a plus for Subaki is misguided. And if I'm using Rinkah as well, that's even worse because now I'm using two unit slots on bad units instead of just one.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Trolling or not trolling? she has 15 base strength at level 10, armor killing shuriken, C base rank, can wield steel double (mwahahahaha I'm so funny) after a few level ups, she's one of the few units who can kill with iron shurikens, her offense is close to Takumi's...except she has unscrewable speed growth.

Let's not forget that shurikens are weak (as a reminder, the strongest one that doesn't hurt you or otherwise weaken you is only 7 might) and that Master Ninja ties for the lowest strength cap in the game (in terms of classes where strength is actually relevant). At a glance, Kagero can only one-round two out of the 32 enemies in chapter 27 on hard mode - and those two enemies happen to be mages. Everything else? She's not even close on the Wyvern Lords (46/30 HP/Def; they also use axes, meaning she gets WTD), the Dark Knights (47/28 HP/Def; remember, there's no Hunter's Knife here), and the Generals (53/35 Hp/Def), and at best does about half to everything else. And once again, weapons aren't magically for one character only other than the Yato and the royal brothers' weapons. Now who's trolling? Hint: It ain't me.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

It means you're less polyvalent, which can be annoying at times. A camilla with bolt axe will be much more dangerous than a Scarlet with a bolt axe.

Do you even know what "polyvalent" means? ...I highly doubt you do, especially since it primarily relates to science. In any instance, I'd leave magic attacking to my mages, as opposed to having my physical units use magic weapons and not do that great with them, between the fact that most physical units have lower magic than strength, most of the stuff I'd want to counter with a ranged weapon has more resistance than defense, and the fact that magic weapons cannot crit.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Silas has damage, sure, what he lacks is speed to use it, res starting very low even if it's high for a physical unit, and his reclass option doesn't help him, opposite to Subaki who can make samurai skills very useful and activate proc skills more often (although astra has less proc rate than sol, the latter doesn't increase damage) and his hp regen isn't luck based. Rinkah has more def than Silas without VoF on average, more speed also, not by a large margin but it could be enough to double, and she can grab lockpick and poison strike for utility/tank role. Rinkah doesn't loose movement by reclassing.

He still does more damage in one hit than Subaki does in two. And that ain't getting into enemy phase, where the latter generally can't hope to double. Also, sure, Subaki might have an HP regen skill, but it's negligible (unless you think 10% is a lot, which I don't). With regard to ninja Rinkah, have fun with her already spotty offense becoming even worse.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Except you just have a worse Kagero who can't counter at 1 range? And with less res growth?

Remember what I said about ninjas and shurikens? Anyway, she'll still hurt things badly, she just doesn't have to risk taking huge damage in return.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I didn't understand. Deal with what? tanking physical hits? killing mages? The day she misses you waste her turn and the healer's as well cuz she's down to 20% HP in one hit from a magic user. And when a chapter 7 mob can double her for 60+ % of her HP, as an early game knight, I feel ashamed for her, especially as a bodyguard. Fates lacks the terrain to use effectively the lv 10 knight skill, so her def will be RNG forever. At least I can send a grown Benny into spear fighters and eat pop corn while watching the ennemies tickle him when he's under seal def.

Seal Speed, since that seems to have you shaking in your boots with fear. Anyway, I play defense in that chapter - I prefer to have them fight me on my terms (by which I mean trying to break an Effie [or Corrin] with a 3 defense boost - and failing miserably). And that remark bout her missing? I could say the same of Arthur, whom it fits even more because he uses axes in his initial class, except with the potential that he makes like a frog and croaks because he ate a critical hit instead and died, meaning it's reset time for you.

6 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

I prefer taking a crit every 5 chapters than getting hit 2x by 50% of the ennemies and still getting hurt by their weak ass weapons. At least Arthur has HP AND DEF so he doesn't suffer too much in complicated situation. His base HP is quite close to Effie's lv 20 HP, please be real. + he can learn sol in his base classline and his son invalidates his bad luck if you play them close to each other. And he has a funny personality, whereas Effie is all about eating and breaking coconuts as if it helped protecting Elise.

So you prefer randomly resetting because Arthur died to some cannon fodder scoring a crit? Because that's what it sounds like. Also, Sol isn't reliable (and if you're using bronze weapons to avoid facing crit chances all the time, it won't activate anyway). Once again, personality has no bearing on battlefield performance. And his son requires him being married off just to exist. Yeah, no. And the final nail in Arthur's coffin? Not unlike your precious Rinkah, he's better off as a pair up bot than as a lead unit.

Edited by Shadow Mir

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4 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Or maybe you don't know how to get the use out of her that I do. Sure, let's go with that. Oh yeah, and remember what I keep saying about level 15 skills? She's one of the few units that can actually use them for a noteworthy length of time.

I've tried a few builds on her, but she always falls flat. You know why? her growth rates are awfully shitty in any class, even her magic, spd and res are shitty and she doesn't start very high in any stat. Outside of luck, Felicia is sadly underpowered in any way possible.

Here's the problem: Takumi can only do it once per turn at most because he has no enemy phase, which hurts him relative to Reina.

Here's the problem: Reina won't tank anything Subaki won't tank, and he levels far quicker than her to have a tanky flier around. Subaki is like Percy in sky knight class: less efficient, but I prefer using him than a unit who dies in 1 or 2 rounds with a shuriken debuff (my Subaki with average def tanked like 1 or 2 spear fighters with seal def and 3 ninjas in EP during the shitty designed ninja village chapter last time I played that, and his speed wasn't stellar so if I had let him take 1 or 2 more speed points alongside some HP and def, he'd have survived that, BTW he had the guard naginata, so Hinoka would've died twice faster and drown only 2-3 guys on her face before dying with her low def and mediocre HP, and he had a ninja put on his back so he didn't die from being doubled, I wanted him to rush to the chest with the ninja but it failed XD).

BTW I play only hard, not lunatic which I find stupid since I've tried Awakening and Radiant Dawn in the (2nd and) highest difficulties which were just a stat fest of units with 3x the stats for their level and hack forges, and the beginning of Fates where you couldn't even fight the band of samurai + archers just like the spear fighters + thieves in chapter 9 conquest with tripple attack stance on seal defense.

As for Subaki's weapon, I could just as easily give it to anyone else, so I wouldn't go around parading it as a positive for him. Also, said weapon is only acquired randomly. Good luck with that. Personality has nothing to do with how a unit performs on the battlefield, so I don't see why you think that's relevant.

How many units have enough skill to use it against every single ennemy you'll find in the whole game from the moment they appear? Aside from Kaze and maybe Hana, who can't wield a lance anyway, not many. Subaki with a +1 subaki's pike is a normal strength/speed steel weapon user with darting blow, but instead he doesn't get slowed and if he's blessed a tiny bit he just recks havoc, while taking hits better than more than half of BR cast, which is better than Hinoka can ever hope to do. Subaki can survive EP, with or without guard naginata, nearly as well as Godboro who many claim to be incredible, except she doesn't have darting blow to double attack and she can't abuse strong weapons without suffering drawbacks, because her skill is average and her speed is just better than Silas' speed, which doesn't mean much when Hinata beats her for at least the 5 next level ups while being supposedly slow, and both Subaki and Hinata have/get better HP than her as time goes.

By the way, Subaki's pike is an early castle visit reward, so it's not hard at all to find the first one, and before having any castle points I managed to have 2 pikes in 1 file before getting to midgame. I like to use the units I prefer or make marriage/buddy seal builds so yeah, I grind for supports which also let me get more forge content and random drops. And I don't even do things like completing the supports for everyone, just the 1 or 2 units I want to build a specific way.

Procs aren't reliable. And skill isn't exactly one of the stats I would want to specialize in, because point for point, one point of skill is worth less than one point of almost anything else. Also, I don't see samurai as the big upgrade that you think it is for Subaki.

You don't see vantage and duellist blow as good things on Subaki? He has high skill>higher crit rate than average units without crit bonuses and one of the few units in the game who actually has more than 90-95% accuracy for the whole game in a game with single RNG dice roll, , which means he will hit more often than Hinoka and LOLReina (sorry but her hit rates are trash from her joining map and her trash skill growth won't help her with low accuracy types of weapons, especially yumi, she rolls 70s in hit rate on ennemies in chapter 11, and will grow like 10-15% hit rate counting luck meanwhile the ennemies' avoid will grow 15-25% if not more so she'll fall under 60% soon enough).

Better have a good proc skill that also refills the guard stance bar in 1 proc to tank a hit for free than not having any useful one, and sorry but Hinoka's only useful skill for damage comes at level 15 promoted in her reclass option, so she will never get any damage boost without marriage or maybe reclass (but Sakura already drains one support option as a wasted opportunity for great class set so...meanwhile Hinata can at least get benefits from buddying Subaki). Basara's level 5 skill doesn't count because it's nearly as useless as golembane (which can at least help with DLC grinding map).

Now you're just using "Est" as a buzzword for "underleveled unit". Anyway, the problem with Mozu is that she requires a lot of investment that could have gone to anyone else and made them better. And to say that Lucina needs more babying than Mozu is a big case of "open mouth, insert foot", especially if you're advocating trying to feed her 5 levels or more in her opening map, because last I checked, Mozu doesn't come with an infinite use weapon that has silver sword level might.

Sorry but what? Lucina needs: Chrom to be overlevelled, his wife to be as well, and a good skill from her mom because her father gives her...a skill she could acquire in a master seal and 4 level ups by herself if it wasn't forced because Awakening's stupid design goes over the top, and guess what? Of the 5 moms she can have, Olivia has 0 hp, def and res, Maribelle 0 hp, str and def and Sumia has 0 hp, def and unimpressive res for an anti magic class, which let you choose between Sully and MU for a mom that doesn't hurt her defenses. So Lucina needs you to train 2 units to overlevelled tier where they could stomp the game by themselves anyway, just not to get her ass kicked in the chapter following her recruitment, where she dies in 2-3 hits, be it magical or physical. I feel forced to grind her mom in DLC in order for Lucina to not be left with 50% of her father's stats and nothing else than her 1 range 12 MT sword with which she hits as hard as an underlevelled Nowi who tanks more attacks while hitting back at 1 and 2 range. At least Say'ri has access to a 1-2 range physical sword after defeating her brother and only her class can wield it, and she's got at least as good base stats as Lucina, which tells a lot about Ylisse princess's performance, underwhelming especially in a game where everyone and his mom uses 1-2 or 2 range weapons and mages are superior to physical units...

Meanwhile by feeding Mozu her own paralogue's exp, she get like +5 to every non res stat, while having some of the best growths in the game and well spread with it. If you only cared giving her one of your seals, be it DLC or anything else, you'd see her base stats in any normal class are superior to what you can see with any other early game unit's base stats, and she outclasses them hard in growths. Meaning by the time you end her paralogue, she's already superior to your Silas/anyone you could feed it to, including meatdragonshield Corrin whose reclass options are useless before promotion where Corrin finally has enough personal stats not to be useless when you loose dragonstone access. Mozu makes better use of any seal you give her than any other unit with the exception of Witch's mark, and her base class has nothing to loose from when you change her, while other units like Kaze loose much from loosing their weapon (only good DLC for him is dread fighter and even that is better used on someone with better performance).

OR I could use her as a pair up bot for Kaze, because her prospects for being useful are dim.

And loose a physical wall in order to feed kills to a unit barely usable 5 chapters later that caps strength at the same number his rival in role has as a base number? Kaze: 15 str max. Kagero: 15 base str. Choose your poney, I know which one I go with. You say Subaki has 0 damage and you tell me Kaze is great, like WTH! Kaze will never damage anything having positive defense numbers and sadly his magic is non-existant so he can't even use magic weapons. Kagero's strength goes even with Azama's troll stats repartition in mid game before Azama can promote if you wait lv 20 without spamming staves like I do in order to level my healers. Rinkah's def is nearly as good as Benny's, while Kaze has nothing going for him. You told me Kagero can't kill shit in late game? well bad news for you, she has 5 max strength over Kaze, so if she can't kill shit while maxing her str faster than anyone I've seen in FE history (except form changers), then Kaze won't even scratch the painting of their armor/clothing. Meanwhile Rinkah's base damage with fiery blood is like 2 of Kaze's attacks, except it only checks 1x for defense/res and she can self peel for magic, which is the whole point of having seal res on Oni savages.

Who's "she" supposed to refer to? Because from where I'm standing, it could refer to one of at least three units. All of whom Subaki doesn't hold a candle to, mind you. And if Subaki's reliant on Darting Blow to double, that means his enemy phase sucks because he's only getting one hit in, as opposed to someone who can actually double and kill enemies on enemy phase. Once again, weapons, other than the Yato and the divine weapons, can be used by anyone, so your treating the armorslayer as a plus for Subaki is misguided. And if I'm using Rinkah as well, that's even worse because now I'm using two unit slots on bad units instead of just one.

Hinoka. I'm mainly comparing Subaki with Hinoka, since it's the only other natural sky knight you get without grinding or capturing and Reina is already promoted only to fall flat with 1/3rd of her attacks missing and letting her open to counter attacks on EP. Not doubling ennemies isn't a negative point when it helps survive the turn. Hinoka (if she ever killed anyone on ennemy phase in sky knight) would just shoot an armageddon on herself by killing an ennemy in EP except if this ennemy is the only one in range. She won't one round mages on EP either, because she can't kill them with any 2 range weapon, with javelins not doubling and bolt naginata hitting their higher res.

Let's not forget that shurikens are weak (as a reminder, the strongest one that doesn't hurt you or otherwise weaken you is only 7 might) and that Master Ninja ties for the lowest strength cap in the game (in terms of classes where strength is actually relevant). At a glance, Kagero can only one-round two out of the 32 enemies in chapter 27 on hard mode - and those two enemies happen to be mages. Everything else? She's not even close on the Wyvern Lords (46/30 HP/Def; they also use axes, meaning she gets WTD), the Dark Knights (47/28 HP/Def; remember, there's no Hunter's Knife here), and the Generals (53/35 Hp/Def), and at best does about half to everything else. And once again, weapons aren't magically for one character only other than the Yato and the royal brothers' weapons. Now who's trolling? Hint: It ain't me.

2 words: effective weapons. Shurikens exploit it the best while being impossible to counter attack for ennemies in PP. 7 MT becomes 21 as far as I know when they're used against the good type of ennemy, and 21 is more MT than legendary weapons of any type. And no, ninjas weren't made to duel wyvern lords. Imagine David throwing flowers at Goliath, well Goliath would OHKO David. But Kagero as a ninja can do several things Hana can't as a samurai or archer: hit at any range and cap strength early (20 strength before promotion is nothing to laugh at especially when it comes with high speed and 1-2 range, hell she even has more strength than Ryoma only she doesn't have a hack weapon carrying her fat ass like lobster lord the bad dad).

You get dual shuriken for axe users, and barb shuriken can help her deal high damage because even before promotion, 20+4 means she can deal 24 damage at 1-2 range with debuffs and poison strike, while also dealing 4x the damage after taking def into count, so a 16 def ennemy would still take 8x4=32 damage from non promoted Kagero with 5 str level ups (don't forget 70% str growth, 5 points away from cap), 2x (I'll do the math for you: 32x2=64 damage in one round, good luck not killing with that, even with 1 crit it's still 40 damage and not even counting any + str modifier like support partner, food, it would be 40 damage per crit with only 1 tonic if tonics go past stat caps like I think). There aren't many units who can't deal that amount of damage at 1-2 range while having good evade and choosing where they attack from. Aside from Ryoma, I think Hayato is the only one who can, and he's not even maintaining correct hit rates with anything past E/D ranks.

As for Generals, 20+21=41, if they have 30 def she deals 6x2 damage to their 35 def without having to promote, as early as mid game (around hitting level 17 if she follows her averages). And why would you go master ninja for end game when you can just cap str and go to a better class like DF or puppeteer which both have better str cap? MN is only good on her for keeping up with skl and res, but after she caps str good bye I go see something else! Unlike Percy she caps one of the best stats very fast, why not enjoy this?

Do you even know what "polyvalent" means? ...I highly doubt you do, especially since it primarily relates to science. In any instance, I'd leave magic attacking to my mages, as opposed to having my physical units use magic weapons and not do that great with them, between the fact that most physical units have lower magic than strength, most of the stuff I'd want to counter with a ranged weapon has more resistance than defense, and the fact that magic weapons cannot crit.

So you never let your ninjas take any fight in EP? Because it seems like it's what you're telling us. In that case, you should use Kaden, he has the HP to take 2 physical hits and the res+luck to negate magic users while also having 15 base str and 20 str, like Kagero, but he naturally kills any horse unit he touches because they couldn't put back Tellius' good form changers so they decided they'd give manaketes cheat weapons with effectiveness over dragons and beasts underwhelming weapons with beast effectiveness as a forgive me gift. He has more avoid than Kagero due to having good luck, more hit and crit due to having more skl, while having nealy as much punch and being better at tanking hits, since you don't seem to use 1-2 range opportunity when it's the most useful. Do you also use Ryoma only on PP? No offense, just trying to understand your logic.

He still does more damage in one hit than Subaki does in two. And that ain't getting into enemy phase, where the latter generally can't hope to double. Also, sure, Subaki might have an HP regen skill, but it's negligible (unless you think 10% is a lot, which I don't). With regard to ninja Rinkah, have fun with her already spotty offense becoming even worse.

Except Silas doesn't get 2 hits in at all against actual ennemies (not normal difficulty 7 spd lvl 10 samurai or something like that), so he only sandbags forever and he looses 3 damage upon using the terrain to his advantage (trees, castles...), better give def boosters to Kaden so you can actually tank AND kill stuff (and Kaden is usable from the get go, doesn't take 14 levels to get to promotion and can even be instantly promoted if you feel like it, while Silas can't do anything at base except sand bagging, picking fights he can't end to feed kills to real offensive units, has no way to get hp back other than spending a turn self healing if you're using his movement to it's fullest because your healers can't keep up, meaning high movement itself isn't a good thing in birthrout, land of foot units, and the only healers who can keep with a horse unit are...SURPRISE! Falcon knights and Failicia the tactician who can't take a hit or she dies so she won't follow him too far on the front lines.

Remember what I said about ninjas and shurikens? Anyway, she'll still hurt things badly, she just doesn't have to risk taking huge damage in return.

But the thing is, you trade 1-2 range for 2 range lock, high strength for high might, high base accuracy for high skill, in the end you loose 1-2 range and it's all you've done, BTW if you have a sniper Hana you grinded for supports, so don't come yelling supports take too long to build to tell me you prefer using a non-cannon archer who needs hardcore chapter 8/10 onward support grinding to be able to go into that class, draining ressources Kagero doesn't need to do the same thing at 1-2range. Hana is better than Kagero only with shuriken, otherwise she looses.

Seal Speed, since that seems to have you shaking in your boots with fear. Anyway, I play defense in that chapter - I prefer to have them fight me on my terms (by which I mean trying to break an Effie [or Corrin] with a 3 defense boost - and failing miserably). And that remark bout her missing? I could say the same of Arthur, whom it fits even more because he uses axes in his initial class, except with the potential that he makes like a frog and croaks because he ate a critical hit instead and died, meaning it's reset time for you.

Effie's skl doesn't grow well, meanwhile Arthur can only get better because his skill growth is good and his hero promotion gives him even more skill. His Hp base is 6 points higher than Effie, his growth is 15% higher than her and over the 60% bar so more susceptible to actually proc at all (more than 2 points per 3 levels on average, that's far more than she can hope to get anytime soon). He gives her 2 spd, meaning he put her at a ridiculous 7 spd at base with 23 hp and 14 def, while she put him at 13 def, putting him at 8 spd, 29 hp and 13 def, he has 6 hp, 1 spd lead while she has 1 def. Crits are nothing for Effie backpack Arthur because he's a physical sponge, while also being able to tank more magic hits than her due to more HP and...equal res at base with only 10% growth difference for her and still 6 hp and 15% lead for Arthur. Crits aren't waiting for him at every corner, and their spd/def growths are nearly equal, while Arthur's skill has 1 more base value and 20% more growth, meaning he will grow more accurate as the game goes on while she'll miss ennemies more and more often. And he has 5 move when she has 4 for the 1st part of the game, where all this actually matters. Don't forget seal speed in chapter 7 put her at 0 speed (or -1 if you go for real values) so everyone and his mom doubles her without even pairing up. Effie should try to imitate faceless, they don't talk to tell you uninteresting things just for the need of filling the support conersations, and their stats spread is better than 80% of the classes in this game while having access to several seals and poison strike/grizzly wound. And facking wary fighter.

So you prefer randomly resetting because Arthur died to some cannon fodder scoring a crit? Because that's what it sounds like. Also, Sol isn't reliable (and if you're using bronze weapons to avoid facing crit chances all the time, it won't activate anyway). Once again, personality has no bearing on battlefield performance. And his son requires him being married off just to exist. Yeah, no. And the final nail in Arthur's coffin? Not unlike your precious Rinkah, he's better off as a pair up bot than as a lead unit.

Hinoka died 3x through reloading the chapter in BR opera because of a 98% hit chance missing repeatedly on an racher she could kill if she wanted to not screw me deeper than anything/anyone else. It took 4 attempts (if not 5 it's been a long time) before she actually hit that 98% and killed that archer without being killed because of missing a nearly perfect scenario. Shit happens all the time, I prefer having a good unit that sometimes makes me reload because of an unlucky RNG shit than playing a worse unit just because it can't die to a random 1% crit, while this unit get crippled by movement, ennemy density, low skill, underwhelming growths where she would need them (why have 55% personal spd growth with a base of 5? She will never double as a knight anyway, better having 30% spd and 70% def and hp instead...). Plus you're saying Arthur's bad, well his reclass option makes him instantly better than Silas with hp+5 as a cavalier, and better than Effie who is locked to knight or healer with 2 magic and non-existent growth. You can still use her as a healer so she at least get some res and more speed than in knight, so she can be a good shuriken user or go back to great knight after promotion.

Don't get me wrong, I love Gilliam, Bors (11 base def with good spd growthso he can one day double while being tanky just like Kliff in SOV), Gatrie, even RD Tauroneo and Brom to some extent, but CQ doesn't really like knights, between seal speed, seal def, poison strike and grizzly wound they just get annihilated without retaliation unless they're overkill to the point they don't draw ennemies to them (Benny...at least he can face master ninjas and fist them with their own stats repartition because they don't even scratch him, even if they hit him 50x per round). Attack stance for ennemies should be nered, I don't get how IS could thing it would be good if they send one seal def ennemy to the player then a horde of attack stance ennemies with bows and axes/lances to completely reck you just to tell you: hey buddy, not the good way, find another path! Sorry I'm not into puzzles when I'm not playing real puzzles with kids (it was my job, I'm not a pedophile and I don't really enjoy the company of kids).

 

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Sorry for the long posts and the double post, I can't edit it anymore and I try to answer every point to make it clear why I'm saying this or that. Have a good night.

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