Biggest hopes for the next Fire Emblem?

[Fryer]

I know that Three Houses came out recently, but I thought it would be fun to discuss what our hopes are for the next FE game considering that many players have already finished at least one of the routes.

Three Houses is hands down one of my favorite titles in the series. I really like the branching storyline (unlike Fates), the flexibility of weapons among different classes, and the removal of healing staves. I am hoping that these features (particularly the latter two) will return in the future.

I did enjoy exploring the monastery but I wouldn't mind if dungeon crawling returned in future games. Roaming around a hub was fun at first but it gradually got boring and hit a wall once the timeskip happened. I found myself wanting to skip to the days of the mission once my characters reached their master classes. As much as Fates was disliked, I did appreciate how classes were unisex and I would not mind that coming back.

 

EDIT: I do like how Archers are much better now but I am hoping that Close Counter gets nerfed if such a skill returned. Maybe have bows unable to double during the enemy phase or get some sort of hit rate penalty from the decrease distance? 

I am also hoping future games allow you to swap out an old skill once the unit gains a new one (the 3DS games did this right).

Edited August 8, 2019 by Fryer

[Yexin]

i hope the next non-remake fe title is a linear experience, just like pretty much every fe title except for fates and 3H: they tried to do something new, one experiment was a complete failure while the other is pretty good, but i'd like them to come back to linear stories, without branches, plot-relevant choices and so on

also please enough with avatars: i absolutely prefer to follow the adventures of a charismatic hero/ine who at least knows the BASICS of the world s/he lives in, i don't need other characters to tell why i should care about what happened/is happening, making me read tons of meaningless words (if not accompanied with actual visible/playable representation), usually more than once for the same topic (one problem i have with three houses mainly)

well, this pretty much sums it up for me

[Shrimpy]

it being the Jugdral remake 😄

[Gregster101]

Please be a remake of FE4 😛

Edited August 8, 2019 by Gregster101

[Alastor15243]

I'm hoping the games stop progressively nerfing the hit and evasion formulas into oblivion like they've been doing since they remade the Archanea games and try a game where your hit rate is triple your skill/dex, not double or 1.5 times or even one for one like Three Houses did. Seriously game, when you have to double the effects of rallies and other boosts to the stat to justify skills that improve it being worth a slot, maybe just make the stat do more?

I'm also hoping the game will list crit evade among your hit, avoid and might.

But most of all, I hope they bring back the Conquest way of doing skills, where enemies actually have them and use them in fun and interesting ways.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Alastor15243

[NinjaMonkey]

• IS makes it, instead of outsourcing it to other companies, such as Koei Tecmo.
• Make it linear
• Tellius mechanics
• Not a remake
• None of this "fetch quest" garbage.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I want a Jugdral remake with:

 

* Maps divided and redesigned into more, smaller chapters.

 

* Redesigned support building system ala Three Houses or at least drastically sped up support acquisition.

 

* Full voice acting.

 

* Combat arts.

 

* Three Houses' archery and magic mechanics/balance.

 

* Rewinds. Perhaps less generously than in 3H. 2-3 rewinds per chapter.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Etheus

[Alastor15243]

35 minutes ago, Etheus said:

I want a Jugdral remake with:

* Rewinds. Perhaps less generously than in 3H. 2-3 rewinds per chapter.

If they do this, they need to either:

1: Make rewinds a setting you can customize

2: If they really, truly somehow think the thing needs to be canon, address the implications of what happened to Sigurd despite being granted the gift of divine prophecy and have Seliph debate whether the gods running that turnwheel are even worth trusting given how badly that turned out for his dad. Honestly I'd love it if the game gives you the option to have Seliph smash the thing out of a rejection of his destiny and a determination to forge his own and not be led by the gods to the slaughterhouse like his father was.

[Fabulously Olivier]

45 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

If they do this, they need to either:

1: Make rewinds a setting you can customize

2: If they really, truly somehow think the thing needs to be canon, address the implications of what happened to Sigurd despite being granted the gift of divine prophecy and have Seliph debate whether the gods running that turnwheel are even worth trusting given how badly that turned out for his dad. Honestly I'd love it if the game gives you the option to have Seliph smash the thing out of a rejection of his destiny and a determination to forge his own and not be led by the gods to the slaughterhouse like his father was.

Well, yes. Make it optional.

 

But I think it might actually be more fitting to include it as one of Levin's powers once he is possessed AFTER the tragedy. The idea that Sigurd and Co. could have been saved if only this were an option earlier would make the situation that much more tragic.

 

Plus, it could create some contrast between the generations. The tragic first generation vs. the hopeful 2nd.

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Well, yes. Make it optional.

 

But I think it might actually be more fitting to include it as one of Levin's powers once he is possessed AFTER the tragedy. The idea that Sigurd and Co. could have been saved if only this were an option earlier would make the situation that much more tragic.

 

Plus, it could create some contrast between the generations. The tragic first generation vs. the hopeful 2nd.

That would make the first gen less of a cakewalk compared to the second gen, so I'm all for that. 
(note: lack of cakewalk not assuming you did Lewyn!Arthur)

[Fabulously Olivier]

22 minutes ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

That would make the first gen less of a cakewalk compared to the second gen, so I'm all for that. 
(note: lack of cakewalk not assuming you did Lewyn!Arthur)

The first gen could afford to be a bit harder. 

 

I distinctly remember Lewyn being a god even before he was a god. He broke the game for me by literally having so much avoid that most enemies wouldn't attack him even if he was their only target due to 0% hit rates. Quite possibly the most overpowered character I've ever seen in these games.

[0 Def Cleric]

2 minutes ago, Etheus said:

The first gen could afford to be a bit harder. 

 

I distinctly remember Lewyn being a god even before he was a god. He broke the game for me by literally having so much avoid that most enemies wouldn't attack him even if he was their only target due to 0% hit rates. Quite possibly the most overpowered character I've ever seen in these games.

At least Lewyn doesn't have 9 move....

[Alastor15243]

25 minutes ago, Etheus said:

Well, yes. Make it optional.

 

But I think it might actually be more fitting to include it as one of Levin's powers once he is possessed AFTER the tragedy. The idea that Sigurd and Co. could have been saved if only this were an option earlier would make the situation that much more tragic.

 

Plus, it could create some contrast between the generations. The tragic first generation vs. the hopeful 2nd.

Gameplaywise it makes more sense for the game to get harder as it goes on though, not easier. And really none of the stories have gained anything from making the rewind system canon anyway, it's just introduced plotholes if you think about it too hard most of the time, so I'm hoping IS will stop trying to shoehorn it into the plot.

Jugdral's plot is famous in the series, I think they'd be very unwise to try and change it, let alone add time travel or future sight, two notoriously difficult powers to mesh with conflict even when the story is built from the ground up to include them.

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Gameplaywise it makes more sense for the game to get harder as it goes on though, not easier. And really none of the stories have gained anything from making the rewind system canon anyway, it's just introduced plotholes if you think about it too hard most of the time, so I'm hoping IS will stop trying to shoehorn it into the plot.

Jugdral's plot is famous in the series, I think they'd be very unwise to try and change it, let alone add time travel or future sight, two notoriously difficult powers to mesh with conflict even when the story is built from the ground up to include them.

Well, the game already is a good bit harder in the second generation, is what we're saying. There's also a lot more luck-based encounters (first Ishtar, etc) than in the first generation, making the mechanic a pretty good idea to reduce frustration.

The game already has battle saves, after all; if you introduced the "divine dragon turnwheel" or whatever, it wouldn't make too much of a difference besides making your rewinds shorter. 

It's funny that you mention future sight, considering Julia's whole thing for most of the second generation. Time travel wouldn't make the second gen story any worse, also; the things that cause trouble for our protagonists aren't exactly things you can turn back time around. Unless they could revert it to before they were born, for some reason? 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

Well, the game already is a good bit harder in the second generation, is what we're saying. There's also a lot more luck-based encounters (first Ishtar, etc) than in the first generation, making the mechanic a pretty good idea to reduce frustration.

Personally, instead of using the turnwheel to keep badly-designed encounters from ruining someone's game, I'm hoping they fix the badly-designed encounters so that everyone has a better time, not just the people using the turnwheel. Echoes really gave the impression that it was using the turnwheel as a crutch to avoid modernizing a lot of stuff, given how dated the map design still is.

[0 Def Cleric]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Personally, instead of using the turnwheel to keep badly-designed encounters from ruining someone's game, I'm hoping they fix the badly-designed encounters so that everyone has a better time, not just the people using the turnwheel. Echoes really gave the impression that it was using the turnwheel as a crutch to avoid modernizing a lot of stuff, given how dated the map design still is.

The encounters aren't so much poorly designed as... well... your units could be at very different levels of power when you encounter them, and they have to account for that. You could have all substitute characters, or you could have Forseti Already(trademark). I personally prefer the turnwheel to the chapter reset method, and it would be a lot more enjoyable on FE4's longer maps than the short chapters in the newer games, and less susceptible to abuse. FE4's already easy when you ironman it, so it's not really that much of a problem. It just helps you get 100% survival.

(...seriously, I've soloed the game with Seliph and Julia and a replacement staffbot for chapter 10-11 before.)

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

The encounters aren't so much poorly designed as... well... your units could be at very different levels of power when you encounter them, and they have to account for that. You could have all substitute characters, or you could have Forseti Already(trademark). I personally prefer the turnwheel to the chapter reset method, and it would be a lot more enjoyable on FE4's longer maps than the short chapters in the newer games, and less susceptible to abuse. FE4's already easy when you ironman it, so it's not really that much of a problem. It just helps you get 100% survival.

(...seriously, I've soloed the game with Seliph and Julia and a replacement staffbot for chapter 10-11 before.)

They could also just keep the original game's save-anywhere system.

[0 Def Cleric]

5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

They could also just keep the original game's save-anywhere system.

You would use neither, so why do you care? Anyway, the turnwheel would be an improvement because turns are long as all hell, and would be even with modern FE UI.

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, 0 Def Cleric said:

You would use neither, so why do you care? Anyway, the turnwheel would be an improvement because turns are long as all hell, and would be even with modern FE UI.

I won't get into this here. Way off topic. But suffice to say I have felt the consequences of its existence in the games it was put in.

[Mylady]

On 8/8/2019 at 4:43 PM, Yexin said:

Also please enough with avatars: i absolutely prefer to follow the adventures of a charismatic hero/ine who at least knows the BASICS of the world s/he lives in, i don't need other characters to tell why i should care about what happened/is happening, making me read tons of meaningless words (if not accompanied with actual visible/playable representation), usually more than once for the same topic (one problem i have with three houses mainly)

well, this pretty much sums it up for me

Or at least make the avatar not central to the plot, a Donnel like character that can have more or less involvement depending on who you support 

 

[Yexin]

24 minutes ago, Mylady said:

Or at least make the avatar not central to the plot, a Donnel like character that can have more or less involvement depending on who you support 

 

i'd prefer something like mark from FE7, who's pretty much simply you giving orders to lyn's/eliwood's/hector's army, and nothing else

quite similar to a pokemon trainer giving orders to his/her team, in fact

[TadpoleSuperHero]

I'd like to see a Genealogy remake, maybe bundled together with a Thracia 776 remake, or have both of them launched as separate games but close together, no long waits between.

But for an actual new FE, not a remake...

• No more avatar. Not one you create yourself, not a silent protagonist, not a character you name but is a character themselves and drives the story, none of that. The only way I'd be okay with an avatar is if you're basically just a cog in the machine, a soldier who's just there, along for the ride, watching all that happens but not a major part of it. Or something like FE 7's tactician, where you're not a playable unit at all and maybe not even seen, but instead of a tactician being someone who chronicles the events, kind of like the game's narrator in a way. That might be neat. But please, let individual and unique characters drive the plot, not a player-created hero-worshipped idiot, I'm so sick of that. Whether they're a great tactician, or an idiotic royal, or a silent mercenary, every time the avatar character has been subject to obsessive hero-worship and it's so stupid, I'm utterly sick of it. It was bearable in Awakening, terrible in Fates, and terrible again in Three Houses.
• Lighter character customization. This is really just that I like character classes and abilities to also reflect their character and story, which is why I'd prefer characters to have a set class or a small number of classes they're capable of, rather than full, wide-ranging customization. But I understand that there are some who really like "I can make my characters whatever I want!" and as long as a free-customization system does have a sort of "this is how they would canonically be" or something like that, I'd be okay with that (and Three Houses does have that in a way, it's just a little too free and open for my tastes, feels like diluting the characters). This is probably my least important point and one I'm most okay with others disagreeing with.
• Complex enemy AI. Especially for harder difficulties! This, I think, is the future of FE in terms of advancing the tactical gameplay. It's not as simple as enemy placement and stats, but also different units follow different patterns and have a variety of responses to the player's gameplay decisions. In fog of war maps (yes, I'd like fog of war to return because it's potential hasn't come close to being realized), the enemy could have patrolling units with a set line of sight, and if they spot you, then on their next turn they'll call for help if they're still alive, but they can only call a certain distance, and different units will respond differently. Some come running to help, others rush back to base to report, etc. Gives you more of a stealth feeling to it, and design it so the enemies also have limited sight-lines. Combine more complex enemy AI with more indicators for the player, like the lines showing who the enemies will attack in Three Houses, and we can see some really intense and interesting battles the likes of which we've never seen in the series.
• More complex "route choosing." Basically, it's not just choices made in dialogue from a menu, but also choices made in battle influence how the story progresses. Characters on the field that you save, or fail to save, or choose to kill, or choose to spare, or who escape before you can kill them, these can all influence what enemies you'll face later, what allies you'll have later, what alliances your enemies and potential allies will form, and more. If you have more characters involved in the story (see next point), then they have their own ideas of what should be done, and some of your choices might push them away, some of them might even leave if you, say, don't let them be the one to fight the boss (because of a specific character dynamic between them), or you choose to show mercy to a foe they hate, or you fail to save a dear friend or family member of theirs, stuff like that. Not just "here's a multiple-choice menu to clearly decide your story's path," but more gameplay decisions influencing how the story progresses. 
• Perma-death MATTERS IN THE STORY. This is the biggest, I think, missed potential for FE to date. Perma-death is gameplay only, and at this point it's just gotten to be stale outside of the few who enjoy ironman runs. That's a legitimate way to play and enjoy the game, but it's still leaving out a big potential of perma-death: complex and layered storytelling. Have all of the characters have their purposes in the plot. Don't keep characters in the background just because "well, if they die, then they're gone for good so we can't have them involved later." That's not true. It requires more writers, more planning, and more coordination between writing staff and everyone else, but it absolutely can be done. Having your entire team, or at least multiple characters, actively mourn a character's death after a battle, and not just a story-required death, but any death that happened in gameplay, would be impactful. If you have a hub location like in Three Houses to return to, then the fallen can be buried there, and in a calendar system depending on how far the calendar goes could even mark the anniversary of their death, or there are events for the birthdays of the fallen, a more somber affair to remember them and ensure the dead are not forgotten. And you have different types of conversations later in the game depending on who's alive, not this "story-relevant characters can't ACTUALLY die" because that's so contrived and Intelligent Systems has to have the staff and funding to be able to move beyond that by now. FE isn't niche anymore, and this is a big way they can take advantage of the new funding and resources afforded to them in their recent successes to advance FE to something it's always had the potential for. 
• If you have multiple routes, let us make major choices later into the story. Don't have the most impactful choice (side with Hoshido or Nohr or neither; choosing your house to teach) happen extremely early in the game. Still have early-game choices, but if there's a big moment of decision and a turning point for the plot, let that be where the major decision happens. In Three Houses, we could have taken longer to choose a House, there's no need to have us be the teacher as early as they did, and even then why not allow us to simply switch sides if we see our House leader going a direction we don't like at the big moment before the time skip? That could be the point where allegiances are either more deeply forged, or broken forever, and could be much more impactful. Of course, this would be even better when the story is written from the ground-up towards that goal, fostering investment over a longer period BEFORE the big moment of decision. I'm personally not as big a fan of choice-driven narratives, but when they're done well they can be really amazing. I don't think Three Houses handles the player choice side of its different routes well at all. That's not saying anything about how the routes themselves are written, just that the way the player decides, and WHEN they make the biggest decision of the game, is very poorly handled and happens far too early with far too little understand of what's at stake. 

 

I understand most of my hopes require a much more robust writing staff and more earnest planning on the story side, but that's not something that's impossible or even unreasonable. And with how FE has struggled with writing in many of its entries, especially recent ones (and strangely enough, Three Houses was mostly developed, and written, by Koei Tecmo staff, not Intelligent Systems), now is the time, with a huge surge in popularity and financial success, to invest in stronger, more complex writing that not only tells better stories, but is written in a way only video games can take advantage of. 

There are lots of little details I could talk about, but things like the weapon triangle, weapon durability, combat arts, gambits and battalions, marriage, children, all of that really often depends on context and execution. All of those things I've been fine with or without depending on the entry and how they're handled, so I really wanted to touch on the things that I think matter most and can really push Fire Emblem as a series to bold new heights. This is one of the best strategy RPG series out there, so focusing on how they can lean into that and make it truly innovate on and advance strategy game design would be really amazing, and I think there's absolutely the potential for it to be done.

Edited August 23, 2019 by TadpoleSuperHero

[Mikethemaster2018]

On 8/8/2019 at 2:43 PM, Yexin said:

i hope the next non-remake fe title is a linear experience, just like pretty much every fe title except for fates and 3H: they tried to do something new, one experiment was a complete failure while the other is pretty good, but i'd like them to come back to linear stories, without branches, plot-relevant choices and so on

also please enough with avatars: i absolutely prefer to follow the adventures of a charismatic hero/ine who at least knows the BASICS of the world s/he lives in, i don't need other characters to tell why i should care about what happened/is happening, making me read tons of meaningless words (if not accompanied with actual visible/playable representation), usually more than once for the same topic (one problem i have with three houses mainly)

well, this pretty much sums it up for me

You are doing that in TH I mean Byleth the perfect avatar even thouhgh he a main he is not the protanist overall he just the player given form. That like pokemon games should just have ash or somebody be the lead. I rather play a game with a character or team I made instead of forcd to be as charmed overall nice guy blue haired again 

[X-Naut]

• Scale back with the story ambition. Having four paths that are for the most part unique (past school mode) is great, but I wouldn't mind them retiring it in favor of a more linear setting next time.
• Likewise, scale back on the sandbox elements a bit. While customizing character classes and relationships has its charm, there are advantages to having a narrower scope to characters. It makes the writing less of a hassle, and lets them focus on making the scant few relationships work well.
• A stronger attempt at balancing the different mobility groups. While Three Houses' sandbox nature ensures that no character is left in the dust, it's clear that they didn't put much effort into movement balance. There's a reason most of the Master tier classes require mounted proficiency.
• Echoing others' sentiments about the avatar being shelved for a game or two.

[Alastor15243]

On 8/23/2019 at 8:11 PM, Mikethemaster2018 said:

You are doing that in TH I mean Byleth the perfect avatar even thouhgh he a main he is not the protanist overall he just the player given form. That like pokemon games should just have ash or somebody be the lead. I rather play a game with a character or team I made instead of forcd to be as charmed overall nice guy blue haired again 

Byleth is the worst avatar in the series. They have literally no personality at all and yet are the emotional crux of several major scenes in the story, and the only person we see several major characters interacting with. Byleth would have been miles better if they had a personality and actually talked. Maybe then I would actually care about their loved ones like the game expects me to. And it was an exceptionally weird choice, to make them essentially act like a mute, miming muppet. Especially since for God knows what reason they decided to give them a voice only in battle.

Plus, they somehow managed to make Corrin hold their beer for "dumbest thing an avatar has ever done" less than one chapter into the game. I don't know how they managed it. Corrin at least didn't need the mistress of space and time to literally warp the laws of reality to save them from a bandit performing a seven second long running charge.

Give me Robin over Byleth any day. Hell, give me Corrin over Byleth any day. I'd love to have someone better than them, but at least as far as the way this was executed, damn near any personality is better than no personality at all.