Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Acacia Sgt]

53 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I know we're a lot more in tune with the Japanese fan base than in the past, but I'd like to see some text before I actually believe this stuff. Remember for years people earnestly thought Eirika and Ephraim could marry each other in the Japanese version?

Someone has been posting translations and compiling them here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U2xFQJhcZazHKdrz1npp3wCk0i193JdOc_HzTMLQcSY/edit

The thing to stand out:

Spoiler

The dragon child mentioned in their paired ending seems is not mentioned as orphaned in the Japanese script.

Not a confirmation but... take of that as you will.

 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[joeygreedy]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Someone has been posting translations and compiling them here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U2xFQJhcZazHKdrz1npp3wCk0i193JdOc_HzTMLQcSY/edit

The thing to stand out:

Ah, so this is the source of those rumours, let me try running through it once, I'm really curious what were the most changed supports.

[Eltosian Kadath]

19 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

1: This is cringe, what was I thinking?

In the immortal words of Jenny Nicholson,  "its a little cringey, but most fun things are.".

 

19 hours ago, joeygreedy said:

I'll be honest, playing Revelations via emulator first of the 3 games nearly put me off playing the game entirely, after so many chapters of uninteresting story and gameplay, I dropped the whole game for a whole ass year and played Awakening instead, until I went back, sped through Birthright ( It was ok, just ok ) and then played Conquest. Holy crap, I wanted to play the "Evil" path last since I joined Fates late and only knew about it through Awakening and Smash, but the gameplay really does save it, even if the story is still very much something that reads like Corrin's wish fulfillment fantasy. So yeah, Rev really does burn you out through sheer disinterest, it was just... boring, which is honestly a bigger indictment of the route than anything else. I'd rather feel the utter bafflement of Conquest, ridiculousness of Engage, fun wacky cast of Awakening, or even Birthright's normalness over sitting through Rev all over again, minus some of the cross-nation supports, but those I'd rather just watch via youtube. 

Revelation is a game that I find is greatly improved by playing it with a challenge run in mind...like basically any challenge run. Revelation gives you a lot of options for doing stupid nonsense that you would only bother with in a challenge run, and its where that games shines most. I find it is a lot like Shadow Dragon in that way, although admittedly I find Shadow Dragon is a better experience when playing "normally" than Revelation is.

 

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

Anyway, they should've retained Alear's S-rank with Jean, but changed it to have Jean's father show up at the Somniel to personally berate the Divine Dragon, threaten to call the cops, and then take his son back home. Congrats, now you have no S-support and no Jean. Good luck!

That would be hilarious.

 

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Really? Literally all of them? Every character in Engage is bi for Alear in Japanese? Even Veyle?

That is the rumor going around, but I find that for a lot of these "changes", when you look at the different translations side by side, the main difference is that English as a language is more explicit in its structure, while Japanese as a language leans on implication, and those whining about it wish their interpretation of that implication were "canon", or wish the official English translation left more up to implication as well. There were some clearer changes with the underage characters, but "ALL" of them being changed is a stretch.

 

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The thing to stand out:

  Hide contents

The dragon child mentioned in their paired ending seems is not mentioned as orphaned in the Japanese script.

Not a confirmation but... take of that as you will.

 

Spoiler

What are you talking about, in the translation you link to, even that translator indicates that Japanese says the dragon child grew up in the Alear-Veyle Orphanage...

 

[joeygreedy]

3 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

What are you talking about, in the translation you link to, even that translator indicates that Japanese says the dragon child grew up in the Alear-Veyle Orphanage...

ARE there other dragons? That's the weird part, Sombron is fell, Alear and Veyle are both also Fell Children, Lumera is explicitly last of the Divine Dragons, with Alear getting divine dragon juice pumped in to turn them into a divine dragon, Zephia is a Mage Dragon, but I'm not sure if they ever brought up whether she's the last of her kind. I really would like to know because I can't remember.

[Acacia Sgt]

13 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

 

  Hide contents

What are you talking about, in the translation you link to, even that translator indicates that Japanese says the dragon child grew up in the Alear-Veyle Orphanage...

 

 

Spoiler

Except in Japanese it's not specified to be actually an orphan. Also, it specifies the child succeeded Alear and Veyle. While English is more vague by simply saying the child united the continent without specifying in what matter. Which begs the question... how was the child their successor? Had to be at least the child of one of them, no?

But then, Japanese outright says dragon child, while in English it's child with dragon blood. Implying a change from full dragon to half-dragon at best. Now why is that? Since the only two dragon left that we know are half-siblings...? Granted, if Alear is female then it doesn't work anyway...

 

 

6 minutes ago, joeygreedy said:

ARE there other dragons? That's the weird part, Sombron is fell, Alear and Veyle are both also Fell Children, Lumera is explicitly last of the Divine Dragons, with Alear getting divine dragon juice pumped in to turn them into a divine dragon, Zephia is a Mage Dragon, but I'm not sure if they ever brought up whether she's the last of her kind. I really would like to know because I can't remember.

Well, Kagetsu does mention "dragons of the East" as being the ones his people worship rather than the Divine One. But then... that's all we know about them. That they exist somewhere east of Elyos.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

 

  Hide contents

Except in Japanese it's not specified to be actually an orphan. Also, it specifies the child succeeded Alear and Veyle. While English is more vague by simply saying the child united the continent without specifying in what matter. Which begs the question... how was the child their successor? Had to be at least the child of one of them, no?

But then, Japanese outright says dragon child, while in English it's child with dragon blood. Implying a change from full dragon to half-dragon at best. Now why is that? Since the only two dragon left that we know are half-siblings...? Granted, if Alear is female then it doesn't work anyway...

 

Spoiler

You are kinda running into why I find this translation kerfuffle such a nothing burger. The Japanese language drops a lot that they feel can be implied, that languages like English don't, so them saying he grew up in an orphanage is enough to specifically indicate they are an orphan, so I wouldn't expect them to bother repeating themselves.

As for them succeeding Alear, all that indicates to me is that their title is the Divine Dragon Monarch, or whatever their official title is, I mean its not like Alear was Lumera's blood child, and they still succeeded her.

 

 

23 minutes ago, joeygreedy said:

ARE there other dragons? That's the weird part, Sombron is fell, Alear and Veyle are both also Fell Children, Lumera is explicitly last of the Divine Dragons, with Alear getting divine dragon juice pumped in to turn them into a divine dragon, Zephia is a Mage Dragon, but I'm not sure if they ever brought up whether she's the last of her kind. I really would like to know because I can't remember.

The corrupted Wyrms have to be the corpses of some breed of dragon...I think? The story is never explicit on that matter, so I must admit that I am just guessing.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

  Hide contents

You are kinda running into why I find this translation kerfuffle such a nothing burger. The Japanese language drops a lot that they feel can be implied, that languages like English don't, so them saying he grew up in an orphanage is enough to specifically indicate they are an orphan, so I wouldn't expect them to bother repeating themselves.

As for them succeeding Alear, all that indicates to me is that their title is the Divine Dragon Monarch, or whatever their official title is, I mean its not like Alear was Lumera's blood child, and they still succeeded her.

 

Spoiler

On the contrary, the localization makes it less explicit. Japanese outright says it's due to Alear and Veyle that the dragon child comes to rule the continent, while English makes no mention of it. Which, again, brings to question... why? Why did both Alear and Veyle picked the child? Because they're a dragon too? Okay, fine. But then... just where did the dragon child came from then, if they're not related to either of them?

9 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The corrupted Wyrms have to be the corpses of some breed of dragon...I think? The story is never explicit on that matter, so I must admit that I am just guessing.

Then it'd come down as to when they became corrupted, I'd guess.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

For what it's worth, Veyle describes her mother as an "ordinary" or "regular" dragon. What ever that implies.

Also I am immeasurably disappointed we fought Zephia five times and they never had her actually transform into a dragon. What exactly is stopping her? She wasn't a child or in a coma. She's been hale and hearty for over a thousand years.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

For what it's worth, Veyle describes her mother as an "ordinary" or "regular" dragon. What ever that implies.

Also I am immeasurably disappointed we fought Zephia five times and they never had her actually transform into a dragon. What exactly is stopping her? She wasn't a child or in a coma. She's been hale and hearty for over a thousand years.

Well, as stated in the Ally Notebook

Spoiler

Her mother was a Mage Dragon, like Zephia. She likely meant ordinary as in, not Divine nor Fell. Since... Mage Dragon are the only other mentioned kind of dragon... aside from the Dragons of the East.

On the subject, Zephia creates a time crystal. Veyle's mother is also a Mage Dragon. Veyle had her own time crystal. Food for thought...

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

28 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

  Hide contents

On the contrary, the localization makes it less explicit. Japanese outright says it's due to Alear and Veyle that the dragon child comes to rule the continent, while English makes no mention of it. Which, again, brings to question... why? Why did both Alear and Veyle picked the child? Because they're a dragon too? Okay, fine. But then... just where did the dragon child came from then, if they're not related to either of them?

Spoiler

This is also a situation where Japanese being a much more compact can impact the translation, as you can't just add a text box or two to cover the size difference, it has to all fit on the end card.

Sadly neither version really has the answers you are seeking at the end there, and all we have left are theories. One interpretation is that they are trying to create a parallel with the bond between Lumera and Alear, and that between Alear/Veyle and this Dragon Child, as bonds of adopted family. As for where they came from, a fun theory would be that they are trying for a parallel with Dragon Child and Sombrom, with both orphaned across worlds, but Dragon Child is given the love they needed to avoid becoming a monster.

 

[Jotari]

17 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

  Hide contents

This is also a situation where Japanese being a much more compact can impact the translation, as you can't just add a text box or two to cover the size difference, it has to all fit on the end card.

Sadly neither version really has the answers you are seeking at the end there, and all we have left are theories. One interpretation is that they are trying to create a parallel with the bond between Lumera and Alear, and that between Alear/Veyle and this Dragon Child, as bonds of adopted family. As for where they came from, a fun theory would be that they are trying for a parallel with Dragon Child and Sombrom, with both orphaned across worlds, but Dragon Child is given the love they needed to avoid becoming a monster.

 

Spoiler

If this is all the same for both male Alear and female Alear then I think it has to be pretty unambiguously an adopted child. Unless there's any hint to female dragons can procreate anywhere else in the game, which I doubt.

 

[Alastor15243]

Engage Day 45: Chapter 24

Alright, back to the game! Sorry for that pathetic post yesterday, let’s try to actually put a part out this time!

Also, I just cleared Chapter 17 on my maddening ironman yesterday. Yunaka was the MVP again, but for entirely different reasons this time. I had her mass-immobilizing enemy forces with Seadall’s help in order to buy time to rally my forces, and I wound up burning 3 rescue uses just for protecting her and getting her to energy tiles and back. I was fucking terrified when Zephia moved in tandem with Veyle and Hyacinth this time.

Anyway, back to my hard run. And working out how I’m going to replace Louis.

Alright, it’s not amazing, but it is at least something I consider worth experimenting with. I’m going to be putting Sigurd on Lindon. Momentum works for physical or magical attacks, so if I can get his hit rate up with a good booster, I should be able to have him do some nice thoron chip damage from relative safety on the rare occasions he has to attack rather than using staves.

…Oh wow, that’s simultaneously adorable and sad. Both Lindon and Sigurd are talking to each other about their dead wives and how lovely they were.

I just barely got their bond high enough to get Canter+, which means I got him Hit+20. Hopefully soon we’ll be able to get him up to Hit+25, which he just barely has enough SP for. The amount he came with.

Man, imagine how much it would suck if characters didn’t come with their own starting SP.

Okay, so his hit rate with Thoron is now 140. That is…

…Below average, but serviceable. I’ve also got Elsurge for when he absolutely has to hit. Man, elsurge comes in so clutch in the first third of Maddening. Basically anyone who can use magic can put in some serious chip damage with that thing, stats be damned.

Also, I remembered to put Nova on Ivy.

Now then… let’s check out this next chapter.

…And hopefully find out why its icon is a snowy mountain and not underwater.

…Aaaaaaaaaaand I don’t really know what the fuck was supposed to have happened in that cutscene. Really, if they don’t have the budget to actually show mountains moving and the terrain reshuffling, maybe don’t make that a setpiece?

But anyway, Pepsiman has apparently been flung by the earthquake far away from the rest of the party.

Which could get ugly for gameplay depending on what this means by the end of the story segment.

…Oh.

…Oh I see.

This is where Pepsiman… runs into Pepsiman Wild Cherry.

…Who is…

…Okay, this is kinda dumb. That big, iconic, heavily-memed shot of Female Alear with a slasher smile in the opening… kinda feels like a complete lie now. We’ve only ever seen Red Pepsiman as either an edgy anti-hero in flashbacks… or as a deadpan soulless husk here.

I’m not sure what’s going on here, but I’m guessing that due to magical bullshit regarding how Pepsiman has repeatedly brushed with death, Sombron’s able to resurrect him as a zombie slave like Veyle can, even though he’s still alive. Y’know, like how Roxas and Sora were able to exist at the same time.

Speaking of which… we have a character on our team who can canonically raise the dead. Temporarily, perhaps, but she can still do it.

Now, I can think of countless reasons why Veyle wouldn’t be willing to do this for the sake of our cause… but y’know… I’d like to hear her say one of them. I want the topic to at least come up.

But of course, we have the draconic time crystal. If gameplay bullshit is so frequently ignored in the story, I’m not surprised that story bullshit is so frequently ignored in gameplay.

…And literally just when I say that…

So it turns out it’s not a weird Roxas-esque person-and-zombie-at-once situation… this is time travel.

Zephia’s magic was just a super powerful time crystal.

Which begs the question of who created Pepsiman’s time crystal, and how much life force it takes to create a crystal of effectively-unlimited short-term time travel as opposed to a single use going back 1,000 years. And for that matter, the game implies that once the magic of this time crystal runs out, we’ll automatically return to the present. And I don’t even want to know what kind of horrific snapback madness that implies about what would happen if our time crystal ever ran out of its presumably-theoretically-finite power.

And now Pepsiman Wild Cherry is robotically expositing about how Sombron’s killed tons of Pepsiman Wild Cherry’s siblings for disobeying him.

Which uh…

I seem to recall a certain line, that I in fact quoted in this very playlog:

Sombron: I do not remember all my children’s names or faces. But that one I killed myself.

That implied that most of the children died as casualties of the war, killed by the good guys. But Pepsiman Wild Cherry seems to be implying a great deal of them were killed by Sombron.

…Yeah, Pepsiman Wild Cherry even says “most”!

Also, I have to assume from the music that this is supposed to be a creepy scene, but I’m just laughing at how ridiculously incompetent this guy is, being such a robotic chatterbox while talking to somebody he’s supposed to be mugging for his ring.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! AND PEPSIMAN JUST FUCKING DIPS!

So apparently due to time travel, we’ll be getting to fight an enemy Emblem again. But I’m still waiting to figure out how they’re going to compensate for us having all the Emblems long term.

Oh, and here’s Zephia again!

So, us destroying the shard in the past is obviously gonna stick. So I have to assume none of these characters are actually going to die.

…And Zephia’s just letting us have this what-must-be-to-her-asinine discussion of time travel while saying fucking nothing.

Pepsiman Wild Cherry: Is that what you’re trying to do? Break the shard?

Pepsiman: What if it was? Would you let us pass by?

Pepsiman Wild Cherry: No. That is stupid.

MY FUCKING SIDES!

And now Pepsiman shows off to Pepsiman Wild Cherry that he also has Marth, and Pepsiman Wild Cherry is like “you have a Marth too?”, and the way he just says a Marth is just so silly to me, like he’s talking about a card game or Pokemon.

…Okay, so, yeah, seems like the “serious” prep theme is gonna be the only one from here on out. As for the map, we seem to be split into three lanes, with access between them in small gaps. Also, fog appears to be a natural terrain element here. I wonder if it moves, like cloud cover in that Radiant Dawn map? Also, I wonder if that means that all of the Dragon Vein terrain effects are recycled from other things in the game?

Either way, this seems fairly straightforward. Especially on Hard. So let’s just get right into it.

After I cook first, obviously. Shouldn’t skimp on things just because it seems easy. Not after I just lost a unit to another map that “seemed easy”.

…Alfred completely screwed the pooch on the cooking, and the reactions were amazing.

Ivy: I did not know pain was a flavor. I suppose that’s what sweet, salty, spicy and bitter add up to.

Kagetsu: I dislike this very much. It tastes of nothing but failure.

AND WE GOT DEBUFFS TO MOST OF OUR STATS WHAT THE FUCK

Okay, please tell me we can reshuffle this.

I was awoken by Alcryst ASMR, but I didn’t immediately recognize his voice and initially got the mental image that this was Alfred, still shell-shocked by his disaster of a meal.

Anyway, please lemme redo the meal, please lemme redo the meal…

I CAN’T REDO THE MEAL, FUCK!

Okay, noted. Never let Alfred near the kitchen again.

Oh god, seeing all that red on everyone’s stats… even though it’s a single point each… it hurts so much…

…I’ve got some supports, might as well do them while I’m here…

Pepsiman and Veyle’s C.

Oh nice! We get her theme!

Veyle seems worried about Pepsiman, what with the whole “coming back as a zombie and then coming double-back as an Emblem” thing.

She also, predictably, has guilt over what she did while evil, and Pepsiman obviously doesn’t blame her.

…All this talk about “big brother” and “little sister” and all that… So, 1000 years had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the physical appearance of Pepsiman, Lumera, or Zephia. We haven’t yet had confirmation of what 1000 years did to how Veyle looks, but like… how does their longevity work? I mean, clearly it isn’t the “age normally until you hit twenty and then stay young for way, way too long” variety seen in certain series, given that Pepsiman and Veyle still aren’t fully-grown. But if it’s like how it was in the Archanea/Awakening games where it’s just a flat multiplier on how old they have to get in order to look a certain human age, then that multiplier is way, way bigger than it is for Archanean dragons, because 1000 years was enough to take Tiki from “might still use a security blanket” to “your son calls me Mommy too”. Granted, Awakening isn’t exactly respectful of its source material’s dragon lore, but you get my point here. If they simply age slower, they age waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay slower.

I hope we get a glimps of Young Veyle while time traveling. That might help give us answers.

Ivy and Hortensia’s A.

…Ah yes, so Hortensia apparently skipped enough grades that she was in the same grade as Ivy.

…Which would imply that Ivy never graduated before getting drafted either. I wonder what the story with how she got her retainers is…

Anyway, this is a cute support.

Hortensia and Veyle’s C.

Ooh, this could be cute!

…Or heartbreaking if Hortensia still has a grudge.

…Oof. It looks like it’s the latter. She doesn’t care that it was due to mind control, because, as she puts it:

Hortensia: I’ll never forget the sight of you laughing as you watched my father die.

…That is… understandable… but it would’ve been way more sympathetic if they had her say that line more in the sense of extreme discomfort rather than anger, as in “look, I know it wasn’t your fault, but your laughing face is burned into my memory and still gives me nightmares. I can’t look at you”.

Then again, she is very young and can easily have come to unfair conclusions from trauma.

They then go on to both say they feel they’d be better off being the other’s species. Hortensia because then her father would still be alive, and Veyle because she wouldn’t have spent eons hated and alone.

I’ll be honest, while this is understandable, I was kinda hoping we’d get a support chain with bubbly obnoxious Hortensia getting into shenanigans with sweet and reserved Veyle.

…Okay, I’ve wasted enough time today. Let’s do this.

Pepsiman Wild Cherry: I make avalanches happen. Even when they don’t want to happen. I just do this.

(Cue rushing snow that pushes one lane back, only my units)

Okay, that was hysterical, but this sounds like a potentially annoying gimmick.

…I’m getting a tutorial about limited-turn battles… now. This late in the fucking game. That’s… frankly absurd. We should have had one of these by now if they felt a tutorial slide for it needs to be given.

Fuck, I forgot to reclass Yunaka.

Damn it, well, fuck, guess she’s missing a level or two this map. She’s pivotal to holding the northern line.

Unfortunately I couldn’t get Veyle and Mauvier behind cover in time, so they got blasted to the back. But it’ll be a while before their side gets snowblasted again, so hopefully they’ll be able to catch up.

Nova turns out to be insanely useful against the corrupted wyrms.

…And we get a smashing s-rank axe I can’t use from the corrupted. Yaaaaaaay.

Ooooh, an S-rank bow! Let’s see how good that is!

…Did they really have to make the shard attack indicator such a frustratingly similar color to the other attack range indicators, which were already similar enough? This game uses such a narrow range of colors for these things that it makes me feel colorblind.

Alright, testing time: can you override a partner’s engage with Engage+?

…No, you cannot. Alright, good to know. Thankfully by the time I had the opportunity to test, Clanne’s backup Marth engage only had that one turn left.

Alright, we’re just about at the end. Pepsiman Wild Cherry is just in range.

…

…

…That is so fucking lame.

The avalanche effect. It doesn’t have an actual push-back animation. If you pay attention and give your units enough space to move… you can see that they just fucking walk to wherever the game says they were pushed.

Okay, as comically absurd as Pepsiman Wild Cherry’s lines are, I will admit I did find this line pretty great:

Pepsiman Wild Cherry: I admit, I am jealous of you. You have my face, but you say the things you feel… out loud.

…Yet again, like with some of the “versus Morion” lines, they should have ended there, but they went on and had him spell out what he meant by that, which was lame.

…And then they seem to imply that Pepsiman’s trauma over the Corrupted is because he has residual unremembered trauma of watching them kill his siblings. Great showing rather than telling, game.

I’m assuming that’s what Sombron meant by “myself”, as in most were merely killed on his orders by the Corrupted.

Pepsiman’s capped too, so I gotta remember to reclass him as well.

And we got boots! Sweet! Probably going on Seadall.

Alright, I think I’m gonna call it after this cutscene, need time to edit before heading out for the day.

…And there is no cutscene Straight to exploration. Alright, I’ll cut it here then.

I think I might be taking the weekend off, sorry. I’ve got some stuff I’d like to do this weekend.

Alastor, signing off.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

This is where Pepsiman… runs into Pepsiman Wild Cherry.

I once made an edit of the Spiderman pointing meme with one of them having a full red suit precisely for this reason... but can't find it to post it again, hahaha.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Which begs the question of who created Pepsiman’s time crystal, and how much life force it takes to create a crystal of effectively-unlimited short-term time travel as opposed to a single use going back 1,000 years. And for that matter, the game implies that once the magic of this time crystal runs out, we’ll automatically return to the present. And I don’t even want to know what kind of horrific snapback madness that implies about what would happen if our time crystal ever ran out of its presumably-theoretically-finite power.

I have a theory. It's not really big spoilers so I'll say it. It's in the Ally Notebook... though don't remember at what support level it unlocked.

Veyle's mother was also a Mage Dragon. Do remember Alear's Time Crystal was Veyle's to begin with. So... perhaps her own mother made it?

Also, if anyone was to die due to the crystals, it'd be whoever created it, not whoever used it. So Alear will be fine even if that other Time Crystal would ever ran out of juice.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

And now Pepsiman shows off to Pepsiman Wild Cherry that he also has Marth, and Pepsiman Wild Cherry is like “you have a Marth too?”, and the way he just says a Marth is just so silly to me, like he’s talking about a card game or Pokemon.

"Mint Condition!"

"Too bad the original 1990 edition is so hard to come by."

"Yeah, tell me about it."

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh god, seeing all that red on everyone’s stats… even though it’s a single point each… it hurts so much…

Oof.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

…All this talk about “big brother” and “little sister” and all that… So, 1000 years had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the physical appearance of Pepsiman, Lumera, or Zephia. We haven’t yet had confirmation of what 1000 years did to how Veyle looks, but like… how does their longevity work? I mean, clearly it isn’t the “age normally until you hit twenty and then stay young for way, way too long” variety seen in certain series, given that Pepsiman and Veyle still aren’t fully-grown. But if it’s like how it was in the Archanea/Awakening games where it’s just a flat multiplier on how old they have to get in order to look a certain human age, then that multiplier is way, way bigger than it is for Archanean dragons, because 1000 years was enough to take Tiki from “might still use a security blanket” to “your son calls me Mommy too”. Granted, Awakening isn’t exactly respectful of its source material’s dragon lore, but you get my point here. If they simply age slower, they age waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay slower.

If we go by internal ages, Alear is 17 and Veyle 16.

Maybe their bodies have finished growing? So Veyle still looking small is because... she simply is like that. Just short. Alternatively, they really do stay looking X age for the rest of their lives... or at least most of it. These dragons are not like other FE dragons, as it were. They might share some traits, but ultimately dragons are not all the same across the series in how they work.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I’ll be honest, while this is understandable, I was kinda hoping we’d get a support chain with bubbly obnoxious Hortensia getting into shenanigans with sweet and reserved Veyle.

I might have something like that in mind for my fanfic ideas... involving their siblings.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Okay, that was hysterical, but this sounds like a potentially annoying gimmick.

Welcome to the late game.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

…I’m getting a tutorial about limited-turn battles… now. This late in the fucking game. That’s… frankly absurd. We should have had one of these by now if they felt a tutorial slide for it needs to be given.

This is kinda the only map with a turn limit, actually, best I remember.

Edited March 10, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Eltosian Kadath]

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

…Okay, this is kinda dumb. That big, iconic, heavily-memed shot of Female Alear with a slasher smile in the opening… kinda feels like a complete lie now. We’ve only ever seen Red Pepsiman as either an edgy anti-hero in flashbacks… or as a deadpan soulless husk here.

It really does feel like such a lie after you meet the real thing.

 

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

Which begs the question of who created Pepsiman’s time crystal, and how much life force it takes to create a crystal of effectively-unlimited short-term time travel as opposed to a single use going back 1,000 years. And for that matter, the game implies that once the magic of this time crystal runs out, we’ll automatically return to the present.

I forget if its the B support, or A support page that mentions that Veyle's mom was a Mage Dragon like Zephia, but it does imply that it may have been a parting gift to protect her darling daughter Veyle.

 

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

And I don’t even want to know what kind of horrific snapback madness that implies about what would happen if our time crystal ever ran out of its presumably-theoretically-finite power.

You know, I never did see what happens when you run out of time crystal charges...

 

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

…I’m getting a tutorial about limited-turn battles… now. This late in the fucking game. That’s… frankly absurd. We should have had one of these by now if they felt a tutorial slide for it needs to be given.

It is funny that the first map with a defined turn limit comes so late into the game.

 

9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

Okay, as comically absurd as Pepsiman Wild Cherry’s lines are, I will admit I did find this line pretty great:

 

Pepsiman Wild Cherry: I admit, I am jealous of you. You have my face, but you say the things you feel… out loud.

That line does have a very closeted feel to it.

 

[Jotari]

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Also, I just cleared Chapter 17 on my maddening ironman yesterday. Yunaka was the MVP again, but for entirely different reasons this time. I had her mass-immobilizing enemy forces with Seadall’s help in order to buy time to rally my forces, and I wound up burning 3 rescue uses just for protecting her and getting her to energy tiles and back. I was fucking terrified when Zephia moved in tandem with Veyle and Hyacinth this time.

Have you noticed if enemy Engage attacks tell you how much damage they deal on maddening and if I'm just completely unobservant for not noticing? When I first realized this was what you were talking about I had just finished the chapter you're currently on, which is the last time you have to deal with an enemy Engage attack.

10 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

 

…All this talk about “big brother” and “little sister” and all that… So, 1000 years had absolutely no effect whatsoever on the physical appearance of Pepsiman, Lumera, or Zephia. We haven’t yet had confirmation of what 1000 years did to how Veyle looks, but like… how does their longevity work? I mean, clearly it isn’t the “age normally until you hit twenty and then stay young for way, way too long” variety seen in certain series, given that Pepsiman and Veyle still aren’t fully-grown. But if it’s like how it was in the Archanea/Awakening games where it’s just a flat multiplier on how old they have to get in order to look a certain human age, then that multiplier is way, way bigger than it is for Archanean dragons, because 1000 years was enough to take Tiki from “might still use a security blanket” to “your son calls me Mommy too”. Granted, Awakening isn’t exactly respectful of its source material’s dragon lore, but you get my point here. If they simply age slower, they age waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay slower.

Okay, so funny description of Awakening Tiki, but I have to correct, the time span between Archanea and Ylisse is 2,000 years.  It's 1,000 years between Awakening and the time of the first Exalt. So if we assume the thousand year old Tiki looks like a 10 year old and Awakening's 3,000 year old Tiki looks like a 30 year old, we have a pretty comfortable 100 year = 1 year for Divine Dragon.

11 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

…Okay, so, yeah, seems like the “serious” prep theme is gonna be the only one from here on out. As for the map, we seem to be split into three lanes, with access between them in small gaps. Also, fog appears to be a natural terrain element here. I wonder if it moves, like cloud cover in that Radiant Dawn map? Also, I wonder if that means that all of the Dragon Vein terrain effects are recycled from other things in the game?

I found finishing this chapter in time quite challenging. I wish I had the foresight to class change Mauvier to Griffon Knight, I had the epiphany to do it right as I finished. Because Griffon Knight has a skill that gives acrobat to units moving past it, meaning I could have plopped him in the fog and moved through it without hindering my movement.

 

10 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

If we go by internal ages, Alear is 17 and Veyle 16.

Maybe their bodies have finished growing? So Veyle still looking small is because... she simply is like that. Just short. Alternatively, they really do stay looking X age for the rest of their lives... or at least most of it. These dragons are not like other FE dragons, as it were. They might share some traits, but ultimately dragons are not all the same across the series in how they work.

Alear's coma (and magic blood transfusions) might have done funny things with their aging too. Sombron is implied to be super old too, yet looks like a relatively young, albeit weird looking, adult in his human form. So aging slowly until reaching full maturity and then becoming functionally immortal would make sense, with the caveat that Alear didn't age much when sleeping and still has a few more centuries to reach full maturity.

 

 

[Acacia Sgt]

16 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

You know, I never did see what happens when you run out of time crystal charges...

Nothing. It just get recharged come next map.

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Okay, so funny description of Awakening Tiki, but I have to correct, the time span between Archanea and Ylisse is 2,000 years.  It's 1,000 years between Awakening and the time of the first Exalt. So if we assume the thousand year old Tiki looks like a 10 year old and Awakening's 3,000 year old Tiki looks like a 30 year old, we have a pretty comfortable 100 year = 1 year for Divine Dragon.

Except Naga was still a "young maiden" at 5000 years old. Plus Duma and Mila being X + 3000 years old and not looking that old either. Maybe Divine Dragons are an outlier to this, but they definitely do not operate on a 100:1 ratio.

Also... really, Awakening Tiki to you looks like she's 30?

15 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Alear's coma (and magic blood transfusions) might have done funny things with their aging too. Sombron is implied to be super old too, yet looks like a relatively young, albeit weird looking, adult in his human form. So aging slowly until reaching full maturity and then becoming functionally immortal would make sense, with the caveat that Alear didn't age much when sleeping and still has a few more centuries to reach full maturity.

Could be possible.

Maybe Dragons are like Saiyajins.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Nothing. It just get recharged come next map.

Except Naga was still a "young maiden" at 5000 years old. Plus Duma and Mila being X + 3000 years old and not looking that old either. Maybe Divine Dragons are an outlier to this, but they definitely do not operate on a 100:1 ratio.

Well Naga "appeared" to them as a young maiden, that doesn't mean she actually did look young at the time. The fan translation at least suggests it was a case of taking a form you are comfortable with. She did die not long after the Miracle of Darna (relatively speaking). You got me on Duma and Mila though.  They are, at the very least, 6,000 years old by the time of Shadows of Valentia but don't look nearly like they'd be in their 60s. Course then we get into the whole mess of wether they're actually dragons or manaketes and what that could possibly do to their aging.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also... really, Awakening Tiki to you looks like she's 30?

 

In Awakening, yes. In Heroes, no.

[Acacia Sgt]

Just now, Jotari said:

Well Naga "appeared" to them as a young maiden, that doesn't mean she actually did look young at the time. The fan translation at least suggests it was a case of taking a form you are comfortable with. She did die not long after the Miracle of Darna (relatively speaking). You got me on Duma and Mila though.  They are, at the very least, 6,000 years old by the time of Shadows of Valentia but don't look nearly like they'd be in their 60s. Course then we get into the whole mess of wether they're actually dragons or manaketes and what that could possibly do to their aging.

Except her cause of death was not age. It's very much implied she worked herself to death, since the last things she did right before that was creating the Archanean Falchion, the Binding Shield and the Five Orbs, put them under seals at the Fane of Raman, put Tiki to sleep, etc.

Besides... not that it matters. Naga just outright came back to life. And so did Medeus (the first time, when Gharnef had nothing to do with it), for that matter.

Just now, Jotari said:

In Awakening, yes. In Heroes, no.

Yeah, even in Awakening she never gave me that impression. Always put her early to mid 20's at the most. Heroes definitely makes her look like she's still a teenager, I'll give you that.

[Alastor15243]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Have you noticed if enemy Engage attacks tell you how much damage they deal on maddening and if I'm just completely unobservant for not noticing? When I first realized this was what you were talking about I had just finished the chapter you're currently on, which is the last time you have to deal with an enemy Engage attack.

You did indeed just never notice. It's there, thankfully.

 

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Okay, so funny description of Awakening Tiki, but I have to correct, the time span between Archanea and Ylisse is 2,000 years.  It's 1,000 years between Awakening and the time of the first Exalt. So if we assume the thousand year old Tiki looks like a 10 year old and Awakening's 3,000 year old Tiki looks like a 30 year old, we have a pretty comfortable 100 year = 1 year for Divine Dragon.

Correct, and I realized this afterwards, but the point still stands: Tiki ages way faster than any Elyosian dragon is shown to age.

 

[Sunwoo]

Sometimes I feel like IS themselves have never really thought about the rate at which their own dragons age. Honestly, they probably never really had to. There just never seems to be enough to go on, especially since a lot of the non-Tellius dragons just come off as really special even for a dragon.

Tellius doesn't do the best job at giving dragons a definite lifespan for their universe either, but I do get the impression that their lifespans are not anywhere near as long as those of dragons outside of this world. In Tellius, they really are just another species living on that planet.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Sometimes I feel like IS themselves have never really thought about the rate at which their own dragons age. Honestly, they probably never really had to. There just never seems to be enough to go on, especially since a lot of the non-Tellius dragons just come off as really special even for a dragon.

Tellius doesn't do the best job at giving dragons a definite lifespan for their universe either, but I do get the impression that their lifespans are not anywhere near as long as those of dragons outside of this world. In Tellius, they really are just another species living on that planet.

Well Tellius does have Deghensea and Lehran who are as old as their recorded history. It also gives us the rather headscrathing pregnancy of Ena who has been gestating for at least 3 years without showing on the short end and something like 20 years without showing if we want to assume Ena didn't fuck a dying guy.

[Acacia Sgt]

I recall the Tellius artbooks actually gave the ratio of Laguz:Beorc aging.

There, in the lower right corner.

Wait, why does Goldoa has the Anarchy Flag? lol

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well Tellius does have Deghensea and Lehran who are as old as their recorded history. It also gives us the rather headscrathing pregnancy of Ena who has been gestating for at least 3 years without showing on the short end and something like 20 years without showing if we want to assume Ena didn't fuck a dying guy.

If I recall, the Japanese script does clarify Raijajon died shortly after being restored, so... yeah, either it happened before he left for Daein, or Ena and Feral!Raijaion... uh, maybe I should not continue that sentence. XD

Edited March 12, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

40 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I recall the Tellius artbooks actually gave the ratio of Laguz:Beorc aging.

There, in the lower right corner.

If I recall, the Japanese script does clarify Raijajon died shortly after being restored, so... yeah, either it happened before he left for Daein, or Ena and Feral!Raijaion... uh, maybe I should not continue that sentence. XD

White dragons live longer than Black Dragons? Huh, didn't expect that. Taking this chart we can see a roughly 60 year old Deghensea (I think he looks like he's in his 60s) would be 1020 years old, which works for the timeline if we assume he was a young strapping lad in his 200s when Ashera made him her hero. Oh wait, doing the maths, a 200 year old Deghensea would have the appearance of an 11 year old 0.o Deghensea was Ashera's Tiki during the conflict!

Of course Lehran being in a similar age range when Herons are only meant to live 300 years means being Ashera's chosen comes with special perks and Deghensea could have looked exactly the same back in the day (we do see his dragon form which looks pretty unchanged). Though his kids all look like they're in the age range of being his natural children, he's not suffering a case of immortality making him look younger than them, granted he could have started having them super late into his immortal life.

And if we're to take the red dragon life span multiplier and compare it to a human gestation period we would have the sum of 0.75*16.7=12.525 for a full red dragon gestation period. Which would make her not showing in Radiant Dawn reasonable as it's the equivalent to 2 months, but only we assume she got pregnant at the end of Path of Radiance.

[Sunwoo]

Maybe being blessed directly by Ashera gave Deghinsea some weird longevity powers? Since for the laguz, you'd probably have to bless them directly to bless their claws. Also, do we know for sure whether Lehran was ever blessed by Ashera or not?

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I recall the Tellius artbooks actually gave the ratio of Laguz:Beorc aging.

How in the name of all that is good and holy would a Begnion noble ever be able to get their hands on sufficiently detailed demographic and actuarial data from Goldoa to determine that black dragons live 1.8% longer on average than red dragons?

(Yeah, I know, I know. But "presenting information as if it was discovered in-world when there's no way in-world characters would actually be able to know it" is a pet peeve of mine.)