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Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.


Alastor15243
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2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, interestingly, there's a theory that uses this reasoning to think that Makalov and Kieran accidentally got each other's skills. The theory goes that Kieran, the passionate hammy knight, was supposed to get tempest, while Makalov, the gambler, was supposed to get gamble.

That doesn’t really make sense to me - Kieran apparently likes to take wild chances in battle, but Makalov would not be such a person.

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9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Given his growth-rate-doubling skill, blossom

Oh man blossom might not be the worst skill in the game if it did that. 

I don't remember exactly how it works in fixed mode, but in normal mode it just lowers the RN check to 90 instead of 100 for a level up. This isn't quite a perfect extrapolation, but I believe it works out to about a 1.1 average increase per stat every 10 levels, at the steep cost of only gaining 2/3rd experience. 

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4 hours ago, Boomhauer007 said:

Oh man blossom might not be the worst skill in the game if it did that. 

I don't remember exactly how it works in fixed mode, but in normal mode it just lowers the RN check to 90 instead of 100 for a level up. This isn't quite a perfect extrapolation, but I believe it works out to about a 1.1 average increase per stat every 10 levels, at the steep cost of only gaining 2/3rd experience. 

Are you sure? I heard it gives you an automatic reroll in every stat that didn't trigger. I kinda mis-spoke there. I don't know what it does in fixed mode though. I think what you described is what happens there, actually.

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3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Are you sure? I heard it gives you an automatic reroll in every stat that didn't trigger. I kinda mis-spoke there. I don't know what it does in fixed mode though. I think what you described is what happens there, actually.

You're right, that is what happens in fixed mode. 

This is why posting close to midnight is never a good idea. 

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Path of Radiance Day 3: Chapter 4

So, now Soren's back, and it's time to reveal the beginnings of the big plot here: the war between Crimea and Daein.

Huh. So Soren was training with another mercenary group. Funny, the way I remembered this scene, he had just been at Crimea to like, study from their library or something.

Alright, so here's where we're being shown a map of the world. Or at least Crimea by the looks of it. Maybe we'll get to see where the Greil Mercenary base is on it.

Yep! Alright, so yes, it's really close to the coast. That explains why both of those “drive out the invaders” missions were at villages by the cost. However...

...I wonder if the game maps are always oriented with geographic north as “up”. Because I just double-checked, and yes, it appears the chapter 1 map had water at the western and southern borders. Granted, the southern water kind of suggested it was just a village-sized curve in a mostly-south-going cliff, but the closest coastline I see on this map where 1: water is to the west of the land and 2: the coastline is angled at least slightly northwest to southeast... is a good long way due west of the Greil Mercenaries position, pretty damned far away given how travel is going to be depicted for the rest of the game.

Again though, this is only an issue if we know for the fact that every map has geographic north pointing “upwards”. Mostly I just wish these little villages were labeled on the world map. The village we went to has a name after all: Caldea. If we could see it on the world map, we could know how far of a trek it was, and if it was indeed north-oriented.

As it stands though, while I'd like more information, I can't remotely prove they've contradicted themselves or anything, so I'll just let it be.

Oooh! That's interesting! The distance between the Crimean royal capital and the Greil Mercenaries base was apparently a 3 day trip for Soren. We have an actual time frame for how long a particular journey takes.

So, let's take note: it takes roughly three days to get halfway across the long end of Crimea by land. Good to know.

I have absolutely no idea whatsoever how realistic that is in terms of how long it takes to cross the average country, but then, we have no idea how big this continent is, and by extension how big these countries are. Let's just keep that metric in mind to see how well it stacks up against other described trips by land.

Right, so I wasn't mistaken that Soren was indeed at Melior's royal library for research. It's just that that wasn't the only reason he was away from the base.

What I find interesting... and honestly rather hard to believe... is that apparently the Daein army made it all the way to the capital without a single warning reaching said capital. There was no “now all of China knows you're here” moment in this invasion. Not a single soldier on lookout survived. Not a single witness of the veritable oceans of troops made it to the capital in time. Melior didn't know Daein was invading until they were at their very doorstep.

And also, apparently enough of Crimea's army is stationed in immediate, within-the-hour access of the capital that this ambush still gave them time to mount some kind of resistance.

Yeah, this... this feels like a bit of a stretch. If Crimea is this militarily inadequate that a third of their country can get invaded before they even know the war is happening, that suggests that despite their scuffles in the past, the only reason Daein never won outright is because they didn't really want to invade.

Crimea is the closest thing our company has to a homeland.”

That is... a very curious way to phrase it. Is this mercenary company more mobile than I realized? Is this hugeass fort, one that's the size of an entire village, just a temporary lodging? Do they move around a lot, and only spend most of their time in Crimea? Because if not, Crimea isn't the closest thing they have to a homeland, it's just flat-out their homeland.

Yeah, the way Soren goes on to describe just how militarily superior to Crimea Daein is... it really gives the feeling that Daein was just toying with Crimea when they had those “minor skirmishes” in recent times, and that Crimea was just completely ignorant of how completely outmatched they were in these disputes.

Noooooot the best start with worldbuilding, not gonna lie. But it's certainly better and more detailed than... basically anything we've gotten in any of the previous 8 games. So I can't really be too disappointed by this. The fact that so much of this has actively been discussed, by characters, in an interesting scene that doubles as a way to help us learn more about them, is pretty damned incredible for Fire Emblem standards, honestly.

Okay, if there's one line so far that I can consider clumsy or awkward, it would probably be Titania responding to Soren's blunt statement that Crime's almost certainly going to lose with “Curse you, Soren! Crimea is not doomed!”. That just feels... so weird.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

So Ike's put in charge of the scouting party to learn more about this invasion, with Titania as his advisor, and when Shinon obviously protests that he's just a boy, Greil orders Shinon to tag along too if he's so concerned for Ike's safety.

Interestingly, I didn't see Greil saying that Oscar or Boyd would be coming. Do I not have them for this map?

Ooh, and I get Ike's Regal Sword. It's basically his rapier for this game, with the traditional “slays riders and armored units” trait those kinds of weapons always have.

Oh, and just as I was asking myself if they're gonna say why Greil chose to put Ike in charge of this mission, Ike asks on his own! And as you could probably expect, Rhys's theory is that it's so he can get some experience to lead the company himself one day.

And honestly, I'm thinking that since this is happening right after news of a war breaking out, Greil might be thinking that day could be uncomfortably close.

Oh, Greil.

You don't know how right you are.

I like this talk between Rhys and Ike. Ike's got his doubts, but Rhys reassuring him feels less like character shilling and more talking about what he could become if he puts his mind to it, and also, Rhys finishes by telling Ike that if he's doubting himself, he should use that as an opportunity to improve instead, which Ike seems to be satisfied by.

...Curious. The soldiers guarding the soon-to-be-introduced Princess Elincia were described as members of the “Imperial Guard”. Imperial? Crimea really isn't an empire. It doesn't ever even claim to be. Is that term used in other contexts for kingdoms?

So now the Daein army theme plays, and one thing I always found odd about it was how comical that horn baseline sounds until the rest of the instruments come in, and even when other instruments join in, that horn baseline still adds a sort of “incompetent blowhard” character to the song. And I'm not entirely sure it's fitting.

But now we meet the commander of this Daein unit, Maijin, who immediately picks a fight with us after demanding we surrender for being armed. Well, as is always the case, we've got a fight on our hands.

Well that's gonna take some getting used to. Apparently pressing B on the map view doesn't take you back to the main preparations menu. You need to press A on an empty space. And I don't understand why this game has “view map” and “reposition” when you can't actually highlight your units on the “view map” version and see how far they can move from their starting position, which, as far as I can tell, is the only reason you would want to pick “view map” over “reposition”.

As mentioned, Soren is getting a +speed band immediately, which in this case means the thief band.

I find it amusing that the last two sentences of the Regal Sword's description are “It's light and easy to wield. Only Ike can wield it.”

Wow. That sounds so easy.

Anyway, there's not much to do here to prepare other than give Soren that thief band and then sort out people's inventories so nobody has 4 weapons or items, since we don't have a convoy yet.

A big objective here is going to be to train Soren up, because he's pretty damned behind in levels. Thankfully, Gatrie is able to perfectly set up a kill for him while everyone then moves in to wall him off from enemies.

This is the first map where we face lance users, and a lot of them have steel lances. I'm going to have to be careful about positioning here. It's certainly going to be more important than usual.

Also, Shinon got attacked, and I don't remember putting him in range of enemies. Either I misread a space, or I completely forgot to highlight a unit, which could have been disastrous.

Aaaand wow. Okay, this level is just as much of a clusterfuck as I remember. So many units charge you at once. I'm really gonna have to rely on Gatria and Titania here to clear out this initial stampede while Soren, Rhys, and to a lesser extent Ike, cower in a corner.

...And a lot of these enemies aren't even attacking now. I think they may be running off to heal. Man, I wish I had the confidence to be able to count on when they do that. It would make player phase tactics so much cooler and more ballsy.

Thankfully, just one turn of retreating gave us a much better opening to take out everyone but those three cowards. I even got to score another kill with Soren.

...And it looks like those cowards are just... crowding around the single heal hedge, waiting patiently for their turn on it. If they're gonna be as passive as that makes it sound, they'd be sitting ducks. The issue is that anyone who would need to take advantage of this... would obviously die if these guys happened to change their mind due to an unknown quirk of their AI. So I always hate trusting this shit.

Soren's first level up is magic and resistance. Speed would have been nice, but he needs magic power to start one-rounding enemies too.

And these guys have a really high bar for what counts as “properly healed”. Just having over half HP doesn't seem to be enough for them anymore when they're standing on a heal hedge, healing 2 HP per turn. Wow. Anyway, I play it safe by approaching them with a wall of Shinon, Gatrie and Titania, and then pounce on them, scoring kills with Soren and Ike along with Gatrie on these three cowardly stragglers.

I can only assume these heal hedges are a thing because this game's somewhat more realistic scale means “forts tiles” can't really exist anymore, unless they're the size of an outhouse.

Yeah, so, the “player phase” jingle is playing at the right time now. Not sure what was going on that first time when I noticed it was off sync, but now it's happening exactly when I initially assumed it should happen.

Also, I just shoved for the first time the other turn, to get Ike in range of an enemy. It's a cool system, especially when basically everyone can do it. I'm sure it'll become more relevant to my strategies in time as I get acquainted to having it.

Also, these enemies here, the last group... appear to be aggroing individually. Not that it matters much in practical terms, because all of these enemies seem to be positioned to have an equal maximum range.

At any rate, I bait them all in with Gatrie, and then player-phase them when they're wounded.

I give Soren the boss kill because, while boss EXP is kind of overkill on a level 2 unit, he needs to level up as soon as possible. And he gets a big one, with magic, speed and res among the gains.

Jesus. The death-conditional dialogue continues to impress. They've got new dialogue every chapter for if this specifically is the chapter where certain units are defeated. It's awesome. I love it.

And now we get the scene where Shinon starts corpse-robbing, and everyone stops him. Is this the series' explanation for why we can only take highlighted items from fallen opponents? Is this some sacred value of all of Tellian society that taking non-red weapons from your fallen opponents is something only a total dickbag like Shinon would find acceptable?

But then we run into Princess Elincia, barely conscious in the woods, and bring her back. And so ends Chapter 4.

Check back later today for Chapter 5.

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Day 3 Bonus: Chapter 5

Awww. I just find Elincia's early tendency to call Ike and Greil “lord” so endearing. I like the idea of this sheltered but extremely humble and sweet princess who naively bestows the honorifics of nobility onto everyone she rightly deems worthy of her respect.

In hindsight, after having played a lot of Danganronpa, this quirk of Elincia's has me... vaguely reminded of Sonia Nevermind, and how you get the impression from Sonia's opening conversation that her favorite part about attending the elite Hope's Peak academy is that she finally gets to be around people society will actually allow her to treat as equals, because she just enjoys being nice and friendly with people that much.

But obviously the tones of these games are... very different. I just thought I'd bring that up for the hell of it. Moving on.

Anyway, for multiple reasons, I already like Elincia way more than Eirika. I think this is a great example of how better execution could have caused a character similar to Eirika to work. Elincia, for one, is in a similar situation. Her father is dead (as is her mother), and she's been driven out of the only home she has ever known, with barely even the slightest glimmer of hope for the future of her or her country. And like Eirika, in spite of this, she's not panicking. She's at least relatively calm and composed when talking about it. However... there are several key differences in the details that make Elincia's behavior seem far more human to me, and less robotic. While she's remaining calm, it's still made incredibly clear that this is in spite of something.

There are two main visual cues this game uses that help with this. First, her “serious” facial expression (because everyone in this game has more than one), which has a very visible, if subtle, mix of discomfort, sorrow and fear in it. Second, there's the fact that these expanded, from-the-head-to-the-waist portraits allow the game to show body language too. While they don't change poses at all, the artist very cleverly chose a surprisingly versatile pose for Elincia that suits her personality in basically any mood of hers. She's constantly putting her hands over her chest in a way that, depending on her facial expression, can equally-effectively be used to indicate sorrow, heartfelt joy, or just a generally warm and pleasant demeanor.

While Elincia, like Eirika, is able to remain calm and avoid freaking out in the face of intense personal tragedy, Elincia differs from Eirika in that we actually see the pain she's fighting through to do this. It's easily clear to the viewer that what happened to her hurt, however brave she's being about it. Not just visually, but in writing too. The pauses she makes at times as she tries to find the words to explain her current situation makes it clear that the events of the past three days have been weighing heavily on her mind, even if she isn't for a moment letting it distract her from what she has to do. And the way she closes her eyes when she talks about all the knights who died to protect her... yeah. This feels like the sort of thing Blazing Blade would do. Hell, this is possibly even better, thanks to the upped production values adding to the effect. But I'm not letting Sacred Stones use the excuse of having a lower budget. Blazing Blade managed to visually convey sorrow from Lyn just by having her close her damned eyes, something that I know Sacred Stones had the sprites for given all the incessant blinking GBA characters do.

Also, I just like her theme. It's absolutely beautiful.

...That said... why would every country be told about Elincia? What would they gain by telling Daein? I'm not gonna outright say this is stupid, as I'm not sure what sorts of “dire circumstances” her identity was revealed in case of, but I will say that I personally don't get it.

Anyway, storywise, this is hands-down my favorite chapter, at least of the early game. And it has my absolute favorite moment from Greil.

And here comes that moment! Rolf comes in warning everyone that there are tons of soldiers outside. So that means Rolf was on scouting duty? I guess that isn't too dangerous and demanding a job for a child in medieval times. Plus, it's not like he's never allowed to be in view of the fort gates or anything, so it clearly isn't a more dangerous thing than they normally let him do.

Ah yes, here it is. My favorite scene with Greil. The scene where everyone votes whether to help Princess Elincia or turn her in to the Daein army. I like how it gives us an opportunity to explore the different mindsets and reasoning of everyone. Notably, I like how apparently Shinon doesn't like Soren that much, which... I mean, they've never even talked before, and that still just sounds so believable. Shinon and Soren don't seem like the sorts of assholes who would get along with each other. Also, we get organic exposition of Shinon's racism, while simultaneously teasing a first-time player with what the hell Shinon could possibly mean by “beast country”.

But even more interesting here is Gatrie, who demonstrates a rather interesting and notable deviation in character from his predecessor, Sain. Sain's opinions on the subject of to or to not aid an innocent girl in need of help are made so comprehensively apparent in Lyn Mode that by the time a similar scene happens in Lyn's story, Lyn doesn't even bother to ask him, because she already knows.

Gatrie, meanwhile, is kind of distracted wondering if Elincia is really his type, since while she's beautiful and has her charms, he much prefers humble country gals (which raises questions of how often he's actually gotten the opportunity to compare the two types), and ultimately, when he realizes he's getting completely off topic, he decides that he's just gonna go with what Greil decides. So yeah, Gatrie isn't quite the chivalrous soul that Sain was.

Also, in the “if people are dead” versions of this scene, Oscar and Boyd will each mention their fallen brother and say they feel that they'd have wanted to save Elincia too.

Anyway, it's a pretty resounding landslide in favor of helping Elincia before Greil even responds. Two votes against by Shinon and Soren, seven in favor by Titania, Oscar, Boyd, Rhys, Mist, Rolf and Ike, with one abstention from Gatrie.

Greil then says he's decided to help Elincia, and also reveals that all throughout this entire conversation, he's not only been listening to their arguments, but also paying attention to the noises coming from outside. Or rather... the lack of it. He then makes everyone pay attention to the dead silence coming from all four directions, and I like how Shinon, the one most clearly opposed to helping Elincia, is the first one to point out the problem that shows they don't have a choice in the matter:

Boyd: Huh? ...What is it?

Gatrie: Uh... I don't hear a thing...

Shinon: Idiot! That's the problem. Don't you think it's a bit odd? Complete silence, in all four directions.

Gatrie: Oh, so that's what you're talking about!

Oscar: Not only are the animals quiet, but the bugs are silent. And that's unnatural beyond belief. Which means...

Ike: We're surrounded. The soldiers aren't waiting for an answer. They already decided to attack.

Titania: It would appear they had no intention of keeping their side of the proposed bargain.

Soren: They were planning on lulling us into a false sense of security and destroying every one of us.

This is such a great scene. Perhaps more than any other pre-battle scene in the entire series so far, this is just interesting and compelling storytelling wholly apart from the battle it's setting up and justifying. Everyone has a chance to be involved and demonstrate their opinions, intelligence and character, and Greil manages to show why he's in charge of this oufit by getting everyone on the same side and making them realize that circumstances dictate that helping her is their only sane option left.

Actually, as I've sat on the same dialogue box for a while to type this out, I've only just now noticed that Greil's outfit beneath his yellow cloak... is black. Actually, it bears a remarkable resemblance to the outfit Ike wears after promoting, which, I still maintain, is the single coolest lord outfit in Fire Emblem history.

So anyway, here it is. The whole company is together for the first time in the game so far, and we've got a fog of war map on our hands where we have to defend our home.

I like how they point out a dirty trick the enemy could have used to make this an unfair fight, establishing that they (and by extension the writers) have been thinking about that sort of thing, and then providing a reasonable explanation for why circumstances don't allow them do that. It's a great way to make the military plans used feel more intelligent and well-thought-out.

I am curious why Ashnard wants Elincia alive though. Is he thinking she can use Lehran's medallion or something? Or maybe she has information he needs that I forgot about. I guess we'll learn later.

Anyway... fog of war map time.

Let's do this.

In a sense, I like that you get battle preparations so early, and can control the initial positioning of your army from the beginning of, like, chapter 2... but the fact that everyone's a force-deploy makes it feel kinda like maybe the “select units” option should have been greyed out for now, to make it feel less pointless.

I just checked skills out of curiosity, and I realized the description for “provoke” is... pretty trash. It says “provokes enemies into attacking first”, which makes it sound like some kind of reverse-vantage, when what it's supposed to say is “provokes enemies into attacking this unit first”, “first” as in “more readily than they would attack other units”.

So, I've got the inventories sorted out, meaning it's time to determine placement. For now, I'm putting Titania and Gatrie in charge of the front gate, with everyone else taking care of the west side, until I can work out and remember more about the enemies on this map. Also, just in case, I'll be putting someone, probably Shinon, in view of that east gate in case that becomes a reinforcement point later and I forgot about it.

...The music on this map is incredibly quiet for some reason. Quieter than usual. I'm not sure why.

I'm not a huge fan of the fog of war ranges being more blurry and ill defined, but I guess solid square ranges wouldn't work that well visually. At any rate, I got a torch from one of the enemies closest to the southern gate, so it's time to have Oscar grab it and use it. I was wondering if this map would supply us with one, given we have no thief. Turns out it would. Actually, I don't think a single game with fog of war has made you do a fog of war mission without a torch... except Revelation, if you wanna call that map fog of war.

I appreciate that this game lets you check enemy stats while in move-again mode with mounted units. I'm pretty sure the GBA games did that too, but I can't remember if Genealogy did. You can't check your own stats for some reason though, making it... largely useless for working out where it's safe to land.

The initial rush of units made this seem way scarier than it actually would be. After some initial walling off, the west gate became much more manageable without relying on dodging.

Gatrie and Titania use hand axes and javelins to thin out the herd a bit at the entrance. I'm gonna see if it's at all manageable to take out the boss.

Ah yes, counter just activated on Titania, in its hilariously underpowered pre-Awakening form. Honestly, I liked the concept of counter in Awakening. I liked how it punished enemy-phase tactics and forced you to think around it, and I hated how the Fates version lost this aspect of it by strictly making it a way to punish player-phase combat when you don't check skills. It was way more interesting when it allowed attacking units to use their enemy's own power against them. Obviously it was a terrible skill to put in a game with ambush spawns, but I think it could have had so much potential in Fates if they merely found a different way to tone it down.

It's a shame Titania wound up using up almost the entire hand axe in one enemy phase. It'll be a few chapters before we can get another one, I'm pretty sure. But I suppose she can still use javelins.

Soren's third level up gains him nothing, meaning we're in for a good one next time.

And Ike's finally gotten some magic and resistance, simultaneously.

We're down to the wire, and if I'm lucky with how things turn out next turn, I might be able to nab the boss's Ashera icon. I like how they don't just say “goddess icon” in this game, and actually say what the icon is an icon of.

Man, either those iron blade myrmidons had really good hit, or Titania got really unlucky there, because she got hit twice by them, and is actually on pretty low health now. I'll never know though, because they're both dead and the game didn't show the combat stats in battle. But I think I can still afford to make a run for the boss. Even if killing him doesn't automatically end the last turn, she can just run away afterwards.

...Yep, there's an offscreen generic soldier who yells out something clearly indicating they're gonna keep fighting until the time limit. Meanwhile Gatrie, who at this point is basically indestructible, can easily face the horde alone for one turn.

And it looks like this battle happened just six turns before sunrise. That really makes me wonder how long a turn is supposed to last. At this scale and with these numbers, it doesn't feel like it would be much longer than 10 seconds, but that would mean this whole battle took place in, like, a minute. Which obviously seems wrong.

And now... well... say goodbye to this place, because we've gotta go. I love this scene. Something about it, how Greil just gives these quick and thorough orders to everyone, like he's prepared for this possibility his whole life. Packing your belongings to leave home. Quickly preparing food for the journey. Scouting ahead to make sure they've got a safe route. Taking essential documents and burning the rest. And I love how even Mist and Rolf help, with Mist immediately knowing the job they'd be useful at and directing Rolf to help her do it. Not confused and scared, but also not childishly over-eager to do something above their weight class. You get the sense that this family has done regular drills for this shit, like how other families might go through what they'd do in the event of a housefire. Honestly, picturing the whole family doing an evacuation drill feels... strangely wholesome and adorable.

Also, I love how Ike, with basically no self-awareness or give-a-shittery of how rude a princess might find this, tells Elincia to go help Mist prepare food, and Elincia is entirely okay with it, due to her good heart and unconventional upbringing for a princess. This is probably one of Ike's most famous and beloved qualities: his complete and total lack of respect for higher social classes. It's not that he treats them with disdain automatically, he just bluntly treats them like anyone else. Elincia is just another client to him, to be treated with respect, but nothing more. This attitude gives him the balls to do some incredibly awesome and satisfying things later in the game.

And I like this scene where Elincia and Mist talk, discussing her upbringing and how she knows so many skills that would normally be beneath a pampered princess. But it also reveals the crazy, creepy glowing medallion Mist has around her neck. And here's a detail I never caught before when playing this game: apparently it only recently started glowing. Nice. Lemme guess... it started glowing shortly after Daein invaded?

Oooh, and now we get our first look at Petrine, who's... basically the closest thing this game has to a “sexy villainess” character. Her outfit isn't really that provocative by modern Fire Emblem standards, or even by the standards of characters like Sonia, but you can still get the sense that that's what they're going for, what with the cleavage and the slight amounts of bare skin in her outfit, even if the only thing it's exposing is her upper arms.

I wonder what building this is. Obviously it wasn't built to be a Daein military base, so it's gotta be a building that was once used by Crimeans, possibly for something else entirely. Was there a “scene transition” label that I missed that isn't in the transcript? Shit. Well, can't go back to find it now.

Nope, wait, yes I can. I can go straight to YouTube to watch the scene online. And the answer is no, there is no “New York, New York” subtitle over an outside-shot of the building. So... no clue where this is supposed to be.

I like how Petrine, in defiance of normal RPG tradition, decides to go in herself, directly, rather than slowly throw increasingly more powerful minions at them, despite being way more powerful than the group could handle. Of course, this doesn't really work out thanks to Greil, but that's a perfectly acceptable way to keep someone like Petrine from being fought immediately. And this way, she's not made to look incompetent for the sake of game progression.

One thing I'd like to point out before ending: there's a bit of dumb writing at the end if you lose. Or rather a poorly-phrased line. Ike panics about the fact that Mist is inside when someone seizes the space, and Titania says “Ike... it's too bad, but... we've been defeated.

Jesus, Titania, it is several orders of magnitude worse than “too bad”.

Well, anyway, that's it for today. Hope you're having as much fun as I am! Tomorrow I'll be checking out Chapter 6, and maybe even Chapter 7!

Stay safe, everyone!

Edited by Alastor15243
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53 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I like how it gives us an opportunity to explore the different mindsets and reasoning of everyone. Notably, I like how apparently Shinon doesn't like Soren that much, which... I mean, they've never even talked before, and that still just sounds so believable. Shinon and Soren don't seem like the sorts of assholes who would get along with each other.

RD "Supports" do in a number of instances have individualized growth rates: 02 is the standard, 00 is fastest, 01 is fast, 03 is slow, and 04 is slowest. Shinon is 03 with Ike, but 04 with Soren. To put that in context, NasirxSoren and Oliverx11 different people are the only other instances of 04s. 

Don't forget to check Shinon's litany of lines with former friends online when its time for Ike to put a steel sword in his spleen.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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57 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

RD "Supports" do in a number of instances have individualized growth rates: 02 is the standard, 00 is fastest, 01 is fast, 03 is slow, and 04 is slowest. Shinon is 03 with Ike, but 04 with Soren. To put that in context, NasirxSoren and Oliverx11 different people are the only other instances of 04s. 

Don't forget to check Shinon's litany of lines with former friends online when its time for Ike to put a steel sword in his spleen.

...I wonder what Nasir has against Soren. I can't remember anything in particular except... I remember a scene where Nasir threatened to out Soren as a branded for getting too close to figuring out he was a spy? Other than that... I mean, he doesn't know who Soren's father is at that point, right? So he can't be irrationally blaming him for what his birth eventually caused to happen to Rajaion and his granddaughter, right?

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3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...I wonder what Nasir has against Soren. I can't remember anything in particular except... I remember a scene where Nasir threatened to out Soren as a branded for getting too close to figuring out he was a spy? Other than that... I mean, he doesn't know who Soren's father is at that point, right? So he can't be irrationally blaming him for what his birth eventually caused to happen to Rajaion and his granddaughter, right?

Why assume Nasir is the one with the problem? Soren's the one who displayed blatant racism in the past.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Why assume Nasir is the one with the problem? Soren's the one who displayed blatant racism in the past.

Because if it were his racism (which has toned down slightly by the time of RD if I remember, but let's assume I'm mis-remembering and that it hasn't), I'd have assumed that low growth would be with every other Laguz. The fact that Nasir and Soren are particularly slow to get along struck me as exceedingly odd. But yeah, I'm starting to think it was the blackmail. Given how horribly he's been treated by laguz and beorc for his heritage, that threat making him hold a serious grudge wouldn't surprise me. It's actually cool that they thought about shit like that, gauging support speeds based on character-significant but barely-even-mentioned story moments.

Edited by Alastor15243
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Path of Radiance Day 4: Chapter 6

It's become increasingly apparent that the charging dock I bought for my wiimotes is complete and utter shit. The charging light stopped triggering ages ago, so I can't even tell if it's charging or not, which wouldn't be a problem if it weren't so finicky. Yet again I had to try and get a few seconds of charge just to turn on the wii and select the game. This is going to be a major problem by the time I play Radiant Dawn, so I went and bought some tech that's a bit more tried and tested: plain ol' rechargeable batteries and a battery charger. They'll be here by the beginning of July at the latest, so that should be plenty of time before I beat this game.

Aaaaanyway... I don't think I ever noticed the “press the button to continue” spinning Lehran's Medallion sprite underneath the narration text box before. It looks like the sort of graphic you'd see in an old game trying to do really realistic sprite art before 3D was really fully a thing. Like I'm almost reminded of a non-cartoonish Donkey Kong Country.

This narration music is great, by the way. I love it. Really ominous and fitting.

But this map makes me realize something interesting: apparently Daein's castle is situated at the very inner edge of its territory, to the point that not even all of the castle is highlighted in red. Why don't they consider the area between that castle and the mountains to be their territory?

I'm not sure why the narrator decides to recap everything that happened in Chapters 4 and 5 before moving on to the present. They're not going to do this later, so why now? I mean I might even appreciate it if they kept it up, for people who haven't played in a while and are just picking up their file where they left off. But if it's just this once, why bother?

Anyway, the game finally reveals explicitly why Gallia is “beast country”: it's home to the shapeshifting beings known as the laguz.

Interestingly, I can actually hear the Radiant Dawn narrator in all of his deep-voiced glory saying most of these lines in my head, which is frankly amazing, since they weren't originally written with him in mind.

Man, Gatrie is hilarious. His periodic complaints about how annoying it is to keep up a march in this heavy armor and heat are pretty hilarious, especially this:

Gatrie: Blazes, why does it have to be so blamed humid? If we weren't being chased, I'd strip off this armor here and now!

Titania: Then I'm almost glad we ARE being pursued. I suppose you'll have to grin and bear it, won't you?

Alright, and here's where Shinon drops the “sub-human” slur, which Ike repeats because he doesn't catch on to the fact that Shinon's... basically casually dropping n-bombs.

Frankly, I'm surprised that Titania, who's lived with Laguz for a good portion of her life, doesn't speak up here to correct Ike and let him know the actual meaning of what he's saying when he innocently starts using the term. Soren also doesn't bother to inform Ike that it's a slur, but like, that I can get, because he's a racist “I hate everyone but I hate beorc lightly less because that's the race my only friends are” misanthrope, and also the games go to great lengths to show that branded have way worse experiences trying to live around laguz than with beorc. He does say they're “traditionally” called laguz, but doesn't bother explaining further, leaving Ike to, I always assumed, think that the “sub” in “sub-human” was like the “sub” in “sub-trope”. Subsection of humanity. Variation of humanity. Not necessarily offensive.

He never actually says that's why he thought it wasn't offensive, but that's what I always assumed he took it to mean as a kid, and it made sense to me.

Still don't get why Titania doesn't speak up though.

And also now I'm curious what the slur is in Japanese, because honestly, while I bought this as a kid and can still kinda justify why he didn't realize as I said... if they really wanted to make a slur that someone could believably hear and not immediately recognize as a slur, I mean... shit, most of the worst slurs in real life qualify. Like, imagine if Ike had never heard the N-word before and a similar scene happened using that. What about the content of that word sounds innately, inherently offensive in the way that something like, say, “horse-fucker” would be? See the difference there? When the slur's made out of known words, words used elsewhere and containing a known negative meaning, it makes it a little harder to believe someone could hear it and not recognize it's supposed to be offensive. So 1, they could've stood to be a bit more creative here, and 2, again, I'm really curious what the slur for laguz was in Japanese, and if it was similarly made of existing words.

So it looks like the backdrop of Petrine's scenes has changed to a camp, making it clear that she is indeed on the move now.

It must have taken Greil and company a while to get through that forest. Clearly the routes Daein was blocking were faster, because apparently Daein has already managed to trespass on Gallia territory proper in order to catch them on the other side.

So Greil takes Shinon and Gatrie. I wonder what the script says happens if they're dead...?

...Apparently the only way to have Gatrie talk in this moment instead of Shinon is if Shinon is dead to force him to be the one to say something.

But yeah, Ike questions Greil's decision he picks two or three men for the diversionary group, but if it's just Greil, Ike practically gets terrified for his father's life. Pretty great detail, pointing out the increased dire situation when there are fewer units alive.

Meanwhile we have games like Awakening, where Raimi can flat-out kill some of your soldiers, and Chrom still laughs off the entire misunderstanding that got them killed as silly hijinks and water under the bridge. Like, I don't even know how a game like Awakening could have done this sort of thing. The light tone and the needless stupidity of a lot of battles doesn't really lend itself well to acknowledging the absence of the men who have died along the way.

...Of course, I don't see anything here for if Titania, Soren, Oscar, Boyd and Rhys have all been taken out in battle, and suddenly Greil's deciding to take more units for the diversionary group and leaving Ike all on his own... but I guess you can't win 'em all.

If you don't want to cause your family any grief, then live!”

Oh, so Heroes was basically quoting him verbatim with that line then! Interesting! I never noticed that!

I like how Elincia offers to fight alongside the mercenaries. And, I mean, she's made it clear she can, in the sense that she's at least been trained in swordfighting. But Ike says he can't let her because they're risking so much already to ensure her safety. Also, he says “Everyone here is risking his life” instead of “their life”, which made me stop for a moment and question if there's even a single female member of the Greil Mercenaries, before quickly remembering that, not counting Mist, there is exactly one: Titania. Funny how, of all the new recruits we get in this game, ignoring Mist and Rolf, only one of them comes to associate themselves directly with the Greil Mercenaries after all of this is over. And that's the next character we get: Mia.

...Actually yeah, now that I think about that... that's probably a complaint I'm gonna have about Radiant Dawn's. After all the growing Ike's done over the course of the game, after fully coming into his own as the leader of the Greil Mercenaries... they have a single new member by the time we next see it? There isn't a single member of Ike's mercenary company who wasn't recruited by his father?

But that's not remotely Path of Radiance's fault, so let's keep going.

...Alright, so we're at the battle now. And as I look at my deployment... something... unsettling occurs to me.

...Okay, let's do a quick comparison. It's currently the beginning of Chapter 6. By this point, here is how many units you have available in every game in the series so far:

FE1: 25

FE2: Hard to define, but if you consider the equivalent to be the end of chapter 1, Alm's army has 10.

FE3 Book 2: 21

FE4: Also hard to define, but you get 10 units by the end of the prologue, and 5 more by the end of Chapter 1.

FE5: You lose basically your entire initial army at the end of Chapter 3, and you still have 11 soldiers by the beginning of Chapter 6.

FE6: 16, with 2 more automatic deploys at the start of Chapter 6, so technically 18 going by what I'm trying to say here.

FE7: 19, assuming the beginning of chapter 16 and not 6.

FE8: 15.

How many units do you have at this point in FE9?

Counting the two characters that I'm not allowed to use now and who are going to leave me in a couple of chapters?

EIGHT.

For all the effort this game goes to to make permanent deaths narratively engaging, when it comes to gameplay, the playable cast is almost insultingly small for a game where failure can make it even smaller. And I'm pretty sure that's a big part of why they can get away with accounting for all of these deaths. The initial cast is very small and intimate. They'd have to come up with far less surgically precise strategies to get similar results in a larger-cast game. For one, the mourning scenes would have to be, while still character-specific, not chapter-specific. With maybe a few variations depending on how many of the character's loved ones who would have something to say are still alive.

Make no mistake. The fact that they went to the effort create a narrative involving so many characters who may or may not be alive, way more death-conditional units than any story in the marathon so far, is still incredibly impressive and admirable. But... y'know... I wish they had some less-story-important characters around too, who can pick up the slack if the big names die.

...I dislike the start of this map. You're basically given the option of either attacking one side of the bridge, the one you're closest to, or staying in the forest to sneak over to the other, less-thoroughly-guarded side, moving two or three spaces at a time, then set up your sneak attack while wondering if you can stand on the thicket tiles at the very edge and still not be seen.

But that question doesn't matter for my plans. My units can get plenty of distance out of the woods by standing slightly deeper into the thickets than that edge.

Still can't find any enemies with more than one weapon, and if it's true that there aren't any, that would make that weapon-view handy and not misleading. But of course, I have to keep up the search.

Also, fun fact about the game's graphics: staring at the water for a while as a kid made me notice they did a pretty clever optical illusion trick to make relatively convincing running water: they took two flat and still watery patterns, set them to semi-transparency, and then had them moving in different directions: one mostly the to the south, and one to the north-west. The result is, when you don't stare too hard at it, what looks like water flowing in the direction of this western-heading river, while making all sorts of ripples and waves as it goes.

Also, I just realized this is the first game in the franchise to not have “battle scenes” for healing. And thus the first game in the series to have no “healing” music. I'm not a huge fan of the concept of non-dynamic battle or healing music anyway, so I don't consider it a big loss, but it is still notable.

I love an early-PoR strength-speed level up. It increases attack speed by two. And Oscar and Boyd just got level-ups like that by working together to defeat an archer.

...And they're still not fast enough to double much. Pity.

...I just noticed how incredibly uncomfortable that sword stance has to be for Ike. He's gotta be crazy strong to hold his sword above his head in that awkward position with his wrist up like that, for dozens of minutes in a row.

I think this might be the first time that getting into an enemy group's attack range has triggered, not that enemy group, but every other enemy group. So now we've got the rest of the enemies we bypassed charging us, which is always the best part of a Fire Emblem map: working out how to defeat an enemy group without getting overwhelmed by the enemies coming right up after it.

I accidentally gave Ike too many items and had to drop one of his many, many iron swords in order to make room for the poleax he just took off a cavalry unit he killed with the regal sword.

He used the slayer to stop the slayer.

I made a slightly-risky attack that was the only way to make Boyd useful this turn, and managed to kill a myrmidon with him and Oscar.

I hate having to trust that immobile enemies won't spontaneously start moving due to some unseen trigger. I wound up avoiding doing that, but for a second it seemed like it was by far my best option.

Honestly, while I'm not a huge fan of the initial player phase theme, I do like that the game has two player phase and enemy phase themes, for each of the two halves of the game. And I like the second half's themes much better.

Also, I notice that when I fight on the bridge, the battle scene shows I actually fight on the bridge. Meanwhile Awakening would constantly do weird stuff to shift your location on the map around to make things fit.

...Okay, so I managed to take out the last group. The boss had a scary 1% crit rate on a couple of people, but thankfully they had enough HP to take at least one hit.

Alright, so, Ike makes the decision to, after getting Elincia enough of the way there that she and the kids can make it to safety on their own... go back after Greil, to make sure he's not in trouble. But even though Greil told him to leave it to him and focus on the princess, so this is kind of him defying orders again... one, he's being far less childish and reckless as he does it, and two, he's not ignoring Titania's or Soren's council to do so. They both seem to think it's a realistic idea and have no objections. So it seems he's grown slightly from last time this happened.

Also, there's a scene between Rolf, Oscar and Boyd if the latter two are still alive, with Rolf telling them to please make sure not to die out there. Disappointing that there isn't a similar “I've already lost one of you, please be careful!” sort of thing if only one of them is alive, but... disappointing by the standards that this game sets for itself, not disappointing by Fire Emblem standards.

Alright, that's it for this chapter. I'll do the second chapter of the day later today, so stay tuned!

Edited by Alastor15243
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23 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 also the games go to great lengths to show that branded have way worse experiences trying to live around laguz than with beorc.

 

Goes to great lengths to tell us. I don't think they ever once actually show us a laguz hating a branded. The closest if Vika getting the hibjeebees without knowing why around Miaciah.

 

23 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

So it looks like the backdrop of Petra's scenes has changed to a camp, making it clear that she is indeed on the move now.

 

Oh shit, Petra's joined Ashnard too? Well she does join Edelgard by default so it's not out of character for her at least.

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2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Oh shit, Petra's joined Ashnard too? Well she does join Edelgard by default so it's not out of character for her at least.

...So many fucking names in my head. So. Many. Fucking. Names. Why does this keep happening?

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55 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Alright, so we're at the battle now. And as I look at my deployment... something... unsettling occurs to me.

...Okay, let's do a quick comparison. It's currently the beginning of Chapter 6. By this point, here is how many units you have available in every game in the series so far:

FE1: 25

FE2: Hard to define, but if you consider the equivalent to be the end of chapter 1, Alm's army has 10.

FE3 Book 2: 21

FE4: Also hard to define, but you get 10 units by the end of the prologue, and 5 more by the end of Chapter 1.

FE5: You lose basically your entire initial army at the end of Chapter 3, and you still have 11 soldiers by the beginning of Chapter 6.

FE6: 16, with 2 more automatic deploys at the start of Chapter 6, so technically 18 going by what I'm trying to say here.

FE7: 19, assuming the beginning of chapter 16 and not 6.

FE8: 15.

How many units do you have at this point in FE9?

Counting the two characters that I'm not allowed to use now and who are going to leave me in a couple of chapters?

EIGHT.

For all the effort this game goes to to make permanent deaths narratively engaging, when it comes to gameplay, the playable cast is almost insultingly small for a game where failure can make it even smaller. And I'm pretty sure that's a big part of why they can get away with accounting for all of these deaths. The initial cast is very small and intimate. They'd have to come up with far less surgically precise strategies to get similar results in a larger-cast game. For one, the mourning scenes would have to be, while still character-specific, not chapter-specific. With maybe a few variations depending on how many of the character's loved ones who would have something to say are still alive.

Make no mistake. The fact that they went to the effort create a narrative involving so many characters who may or may not be alive, way more death-conditional units than any story in the marathon so far, is still incredibly impressive and admirable. But... y'know... I wish they had some less-story-important characters around too, who can pick up the slack if the big names die.

I definitely agree with this criticism which I've recognized before, PoR's narrow start is a mixed bag. It's very different from how most games, especially Fates and 3H which are super-duper frontloaded.

 

50 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...I just noticed how incredibly uncomfortable that sword stance has to be for Ike. He's gotta be crazy strong to hold his sword above his head in that awkward position with his wrist up like that, for dozens of minutes in a row.

I don't remember where or what exactly, but I think I saw someone say once this stance was usable IRL, with a dagger in the left, currently do-nothing for Ike, hand.

And if you want to see an uncomfortable sword stance, see Seifer from Final Fantasy VIII, I hope the dude gets severe arthritis by 30.

 

Tellius I think it is fair to say, derives some ancestral inspiration from Jugdral, the way Elibe took from Archanea and Magvel from Valentia. Things like Geoffrey having blue hair on a horse and the Brave Lance cannot be anything but a reference of old. Though the developers have never outright said "X was inspired by Y".

I bring this up, because PoR Chapters 5-8 have appeared to me of recent times as being a lite version of Thracia 776 Chapters 4-7. A flight to safety from the big bad, which climaxes in the "death" of a great sword-using parent figure to the main character. I read Titania was made female because of attractiveness to the dev team, but she coincidentally has an axe and an unrequited crush on the dead person. Titania and Greil could be interpreted with each partly Dagdar and partly Eyvel. The Greil Mercs aren't as ragtag as Leif's Freeblades + bandits, but compared to everything but Gaiden's severe soulless at the time cast, the GMs are ragtag, every other starting group was mostly royal knights.

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Day 4 Bonus: Chapter 7

Jeez, this is a 30 chapter game, and yet if I keep up this pace, I can get the whole game done in like three weeks.

So, now that Soren actually is advising against continuing the search, Ike's wisely taking his advice.

But then Titania sees something in a nearby abandoned fort, so they go in to investigate.

It's apparently been abandoned for a long time, which... begs the question of what it was used for. We are in Gallia proper now, aren't we? Why haven't we seen even a single Laguz yet?

...Anyway, the preparation menu comes... alarmingly abruptly. I thought Ike would say something, at least, or talk to Soren or Titania after the enemies showed up, but he's just all “Blast! Daein troops!” and they all run into the corner, and... cue battle preparations.

Yeah... I'm gonna be kind of ticked off if it turns out laguz made this building. If this were made by and for beast-men, then I have... questions.

First question: Why the fuck would beast laguz put huge-ass balistrariae in almost every goddamned wall? What the fuck purpose could that serve for people who don't use ranged attacks?

Second question: I notice here are candelabras on the walls, suggesting metalsmithing, which prompts me to ask... Um... what exactly is the beast tribe's tech level?

I know Lethe talks about using knives at some point for preparing food, but like... they don't use weapons or armor in battle, and given the clear shortcomings of their transformation abilities and the time they spend in their helpless human forms, either they lack the knowledge and means to make weapons or armor, or they're dumb enough to not want to, even when fighting wars.

Actually, there's plenty of evidence throughout the two games that Laguz um... how shall I put this...

...aren't... that bright?

Like, they do a lot of stupid shit out of this weird combination of animal instincts and stubborn pride... to like, a frankly alarming degree. Like, it gets to the point that in Radiant Dawn, when Soren says that they've reached the perfect opportunity to negotiate peace with Begnion, all of the voices of authority among the laguz say that this is absolutely not fucking possible, and that the soldiers would outright riot against their leaders if they were subjected to that kind of violence blueballs. I think Tibarn said that if they tried to use the advantage they had at the time to negotiate the end of the war, he'd have to physically beat all of his soldiers unconscious and drag them home.

And I mean, like, the fact that beorc are the “children of wisdom” as opposed to the laguz being the “children of strength” really does suggest that this isn't a situation where beorc are just laguz who can't transform, and had to make their own weapons to compensate. They're smarter than laguz, and their weapons and mastery of the magical arts are the product of that intelligence.

So, like... how much worse is Laguz tech? Gallians still have clothes with buckles and buttons and cute little bell collars on the ladies that raise so many questions in a universe with a massive history of slavery on both sides... so unless they're scavengers, they clearly know how to do some of the stuff beorc know how to do. But how much? Did they develop it themselves, or did they copy what they could understand from the beorc?

Does anyone know if any supports go into this?

And actually, that, uh... kind of paints a dim view of future of the continent, if you think about it too hard. Like... if the laguz are actually genuinely less intelligent than beorc, and it's not some kind of issue of having inferior education or something... that's going to have socioeconomic consequences that are never going to go away. You'd have to construct a pretty genius bit of government policy to make sure that the laguz don't spend, like, the rest of eternity at the margins of society if they're at a perpetual disadvantage at the job market for basically any job that pays worth a damn. Especially centuries down the line when beorc start inventing shit like guns and automation and all the other things that make the laguz's advantages in physical strength less and less valuable to society.

...This is a fascinating, but extremely uncomfortable subject, and I would be amazed by anyone brave and intelligent enough to do it justice. But that person probably isn't me, so let's keep moving.

Surprisingly, one of the most useful things about the poleax I got recently is its absurd weight, allowing me to force even Titania to only do one attack a round and soften up a soldier for someone else, because there's this soldier whose viable melee attack points are covered by like three enemies a good distance away, meaning I don't want somebody who gets injured by a counter-attack to end their turn next to that soldier. Hence the need for chip damage cavalry.

And now Mia shows up, right before enemy phase, which... makes me uncomfortable. I thought I had a few more turns, but she's getting attacked right away, and I don't know how long she'll last.

...She's not good or anything, but I'd still like to recruit her.

Thankfully, she has the sense to run away and get near my group, so she'll be fine.

I sent Titania after the thief that just showed up, and unfortunately all the pursuing enemies followed her, costing my army some opponents they could have easily taken. On the plus side, it does lighten the load when it comes to fighting the enemies chasing Mia.

And Mia recruits herself, so we've just straight-up gained an extra attacker this turn. Awesome.

Hold up. Are we in Gallia yet? Because if so, when did Greil have the time to rescue Mia from a prison camp, and when did Daein have the time to set up a prison camp for Crimean soldiers in Gallia?

I am very confused right now.

Also, the conversation's unclear about how Mia got here. Was she told by Greil to head south and meet up with Ike? Because aside from correctly guessing this is Ike she's talking to, nothing else about this conversation seems to indicate that.

Titania is literally one point of strength away from being able to one-shot this thief, but alas, she has to leave him merely wounded, and I have to hope that this is the turn that Greil and company get back to intercept that guy.

...Nope. Looks like I'll have to press a bit further. She just got a defense level up, so I'm not too concerned about her. But she has no vulneraries, so... I'm hoping Gatrie and Shinon show up soon.

Finally we get the cutscene. Petrine shows up in all of her terrifying glory, and Greil comes in to save the day, with Gatrie and Shinon in tow.

Okay, so, this conversation seems to confirm that no, we're not in Gallia yet. That makes a lot of what's been going on more understandable. So, it seems they didn't mean they'd literally be in Gallia the second they stepped out of that forest.

So, Petrine doesn't seem to recognize Greil as General Gawain, Rider of Daein. Interesting. Also, this conversation seems to imply that the “survive a massive death match and you get a sweet military promotion” thing happened after Greil left Daein. Was Ashnard in power when he left? I thought that Greil was a Daein commoner who got his position as one of the Four Riders in a similar way. Isn't Greil of common birth?

I love how Greil and Petrine's conversation amounts to:

Guys! I'll distract her! Get out of here!”

You think I'm just gonna let you lure me out of here?”

I dunno, are you? Can you resist the urge to fight... all of this?”

...Fuck, no, I can't. Fine, let's get a room.”

Also, these reinforcements show up perfectly in time to let you kill the thief who goes after the chest, making my chasing after him less than pointless. If I trusted my memory of this chapter, I'd have been fine. But then, that'd be a silly way to lose treasure.

I always find it awkward when Fire Emblem games have a camera view so zoomed in that you can't actually see the full movement range of a unit while keeping the cursor on them. Having to zoom out and having to angle the camera just to get that A squared plus B squared equals C squared added distance on screen is kind of annoying.

I've opened 2 chests so far, and gotten an armorslayer and a miracle scroll. The miracle scroll is... I mean, the thing about Miracle is that while it's almost entirely garbage... it's also cheap, and is just about the only skill you can put on Ike while he has Aether, so... sure. I'll take it. Better than nothing. Could save me from a game over.

So it seems that Soren, with his low bulk, is a more tempting target for a javelin soldier than Titania, who's nigh indestructible but can't fight back.

...So, apparently those massive holes in the walls aren't balistrariae. They weren't made so that people could shoot through those holes... because you can't shoot through those holes. That was something that Radiant Dawn added apparently. You just flat-out can't shoot through walls in this game.

Ooh! I like how this game lets you know how much you're gonna heal someone! I was wondering when that would show up! Score one more for usability!

Man, I'm gonna miss Gatrie. He's a prety cool unit. I like his design, and I like how tough he is. I hope he's still usable when I get him back in a little while. Speaking of...

...I've gotta make sure I get everything important out of their inventories now, just in case they don't leave their stuff with the newly-acquired convoy before leaving.

One of the myrmidons has an armorslayer and barely did anything to Gatrie, and then was promptly one-shot.

Lesson learned: this game is probably going by double effectiveness, not triple. Nooooot good news for using wind magic against birds.

We got a barrier staff in the last chest. I'll be saving that for a certain much-in-need-of-training staff user we'll be getting in a bit.

Man, I hate it when rout maps have noncombatant healers that count towards the total. Makes me feel like a heartless bastard. Or a war criminal. Because in real life, in modern times, this shit is totally illegal.

...Ike acts all amazed when he sees Balmer, like he's never seen a mage before. Weird line.

But anyway, if I must kill the harmless healer, then I must kill the harmless healer.

And Mia's terrible attack power allows me to perfectly set up an extremely-unlikely kill with Soren, netting him the healer's exp.

And after making sure Shinon and Gatrie don't have anything important, while still having some things so I can check if they go to the convoy...

...I finish off the healer with Soren.

And now we get to see laguz for the first time, as they arrive in time to bail us out when Petrine's reinforcements arrive and have us surrounded. But I love how Greil's still planning on fighting through them even before that happens, talking to Ike and telling him they have to survive this together.

...And then the Black Knight shows up. This... this is the first time we see him, right? I... it occurs to me in hindsight that he probably should have had a more dramatic entrance, given... what this guy is about to do. He just... walks in. The guy can teleport, and he just... walks into the room. And his theme doesn't even play. The normal, slightly-goofy Daein army theme keeps playing as he tells Petrine to withdraw. That's... honestly, yeah, kinda disappointing. His entrance in Radiant Dawn was way better, where he warps straight in, to dead silence, and then the second he speaks, it's with his theme behind him. I guess you could argue maybe he hasn't earned his dramatic entrance yet, but... this guy's supposed to be terrifying. It would've been nice to bring that across in the mood of the scene, even before the game demonstrates why that gut feeling is justified.

And now we get to the scene where Ike accidentally calls Ranulf a sub-human.

...And Ranulf acts like he's never heard that word before, like “is that the insult you're using these days?”

...Yeah, this is... this is a pretty terrible line. He's basically lecturing Ike on why sub-human is an insult, something that... I'm pretty sure Ranulf assumes Ike already knows, given that he thinks Ike genuinely meant it as an insult? This is... really as-you-know-y.

And apparently Ike's forgotten about the term “Laguz”? He says he doesn't know “any other name for you”. It would've been nice if Soren hadn't mentioned that name before. That would have made this scene better.

And then Ike says he does remember the name Laguz, and asks if he could call him that, and...

...and all the while Greil says nothing.

...Honestly, this is a lot more awkward than I remember it being as a kid. I remember this scene being a lot better written.

Awww, and Elincia's calling Ranulf “lord” too!

...Okay, they at least justify why Greil didn't say anything. He's distracted, lost in thought. I'm pretty sure he's thinking about the Black Knight. I think he knows more than he ever lets on about him, even before he recognizes who the man is.

...Here's the scene.

The big scene.

...Greil's last moments alive.

...One thing I wonder is... Greil seems to know that he'll meet the Black Knight if he goes and leaves the castle. I wonder how he knows this? It's like he knew something about the Black Knight even before all of his started, wholly separate from his past with the Black Knight's true identity.

...And I can't remember if this is ever explained. Is it?

Oooh, Ike. He's catching on to something.

He knows it's suspicious that Greil's been putting so much responsibility on him lately when he's barely even started. He recognizes that Greil would have never done this before.

It's pretty clear that I was right: that recent events have caused Greil to realize he's likely going to die soon, and that he needs to prepare Ike to succeed him. I think the war prompted this, maybe... and I have to assume some kind of encounter with the Black Knight happened in the time between Chaper 6 and Chapter 7.

Anyway, I really like this scene. It's one last heart-to-heart between father and son, before...

...the cutscene.

Ooh! I didn't realize before. It didn't really connect, but... the Black Knight starts the fight using Ragnell, not Alondite. He tosses Greil the sword in his hand, which is Ragnell, and then draws his normal one.

...I couldn't hear a single word the Black Knight said in this cutscene when I was a kid. The echoing effect combined with his sort of mumbling voice made me unable to hear anything except “do you... want to die?”

Anyway... yeah, this cutscene hasn't really aged well. It doesn't hold a candle to the stuff in Awakening, for example. And that kind of detracts from this moment, but... I mean... it still has its charm.

...Yep. Given that the Black Knight assumes Greil knows what he's talking about when he says “give me what I came for”, I have to assume they ran into each other before. And Greil saw enough of the Black Knight's strength to know he had no chance of defeating him with his crippled sword arm.

...Jesus. The Black Knight really is stone cold. Just threatening to torture Greil's children in front of him to force him to admit where the medallion is. Of course, merely grabbing Mist to torture her would probably have him recognize the chain around her neck, even if she typically tucks the actual medallion into her shirt.

Oh wow! Ike has an angry portrait! I didn't realize! I thought it was just serious and happy and maybe sad portraits for everyone. Cool! Nice production values there!

And then Caineghis, hiding in the woods, too late to save Greil, manages to save Ike by just roaring like hell. Enough to make the Black Knight... well, not enough to scare him, but enough to make him realize he has to retreat.

...And it starts raining just as Greil dies. Wow, so Three Houses took that too. I mean, not that it's a rare trope or anything, pretty much a cliché honestly, but still... just tally on one more similarity.

Oh man, honestly, this CG of Ike desperately carrying his father back to the castle in the rain... it's really effective. And Greil's begging his son to not be consumed by revenge and to just live a long life, safe in Gallia.

And it's a pretty ineresting part of Ike's character that he... chooses not to listen. That he can't be satisfied living like that, however much his father would like him to. That attitude, that desire for revenge, is a huge part of what drives Ike forward from here on out. So... remembering Greil beg Ike to not pursue him... makes this really interesting.

Oh, and help got so close, too... everyone came rushing out of the castle to help...

...but...


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 

...Stay safe, everyone.

...Stay safer than Greil.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's apparently been abandoned for a long time, which... begs the question of what it was used for. We are in Gallia proper now, aren't we? Why haven't we seen even a single Laguz yet?

The informally-called "Sea of Trees" at the border seems conspicuously underpopulated. Cross the Sea of Trees and you're in Gallia proper. Not sure why this is. Maybe the Gallian population isn't so large as to run out of space elsewhere in the country?

-But this would require understanding how the Gallians subsist. Hunter-gatherer seems most likely, because it is stated that Laguz keep agriculture to a minimum.:

Spoiler

180-181laguzlandscape.jpg

Some "horticulture" might exist, as in the tending of wild plants and minor planting, but not true plow-seed-and-water intensive agriculture associated with the usual rise of human civilization. Apparently, the North American Pacific Northwest region was so rich in natural resources, that the Native Americans/First Nations there could thrive as developed and settled societies without turning to farming. Farming had been invented in Mesoamerica and did spread up the Atlantic coast, but the Pacific coast did not feel the need/pressure to adopt it. They still had all the basics of craftsmanship- pottery, textiles, stone tools, huts, canoes, some cool totem poles. Could Gallia be a slightly warmer version of Native American Washington/British Columbia?

Although, I do not know what the pre-Contact population estimates for the Pacific Northwest are, and the numbers would be highly contestable anyhow. We have to factor in Laguz being inherently stronger than Beorc, and RD suggests they require a higher caloric intake to survive, but we don't know how many additional calories that is. If I knew the average Beast requires 20% more (and it's said that Ike can eat like a Laguz, so it should be within a limit that hungrier Beorc can approach) calories than the average Beorc, and I had pop. estimates for the Pre-Contact Pacific Northwest- assuming it is a good comparison- that I could multiply the pop. estimate by .8 and I'd get a "realistic" idea of what how many Gallians could subsist on hunter-gathering- but I still don't know the size of Gallia.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

And I mean, like, the fact that beorc are the “children of wisdom” as opposed to the laguz being the “children of strength” really does suggest that this isn't a situation where beorc are just laguz who can't transform, and had to make their own weapons to compensate. They're smarter than laguz, and their weapons and mastery of the magical arts are the product of that intelligence.

So, like... how much worse is Laguz tech? Gallians still have clothes with buckles and buttons and cute little bell collars on the ladies that raise so many questions in a universe with a massive history of slavery on both sides... so unless they're scavengers, they clearly know how to do some of the stuff beorc know how to do. But how much? Did they develop it themselves, or did they copy what they could understand from the beorc?

I'd like to mention that you don't need metallurgy to create a "complex society" or "civilization". The Incas, the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Iroquois, historians would agree they were all sophisticated societies, empires even. And although the Mayans and Aztecs had writing (Incas and Iroquois had only pseudo-writing), none of these ever learned how to smelt ore into tools and weapons, they remained in the "Stone Age" until European Contact. Why no metallurgy? Thats a mystery, but nobody except bigots would blame "race".

And I'm not quite sure where the "Children" monikers came from. I wanted to think it started as Begnion's racist rhetoric and not Goddess-given, to cast the Beorc as intelligent and the Laguz as brutish children in need of paternalism. But I can't find a source right now.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Like, they do a lot of stupid shit out of this weird combination of animal instincts and stubborn pride... to like, a frankly alarming degree. Like, it gets to the point that in Radiant Dawn, when Soren says that they're reached the perfect opportunity to negotiate peace with Begnion, all of the voices of authority among the laguz say that this is absolutely not fucking possible, and that the soldiers would outright riot against their leaders if they were subjected to that kind of violence blueballs. I think Tibarn said that if they tried to use the advantage they had at the time to negotiate the end of the war, he'd have to physically beat all of his soldiers unconscious and drag them home.

I wouldn't call this "Archanean dragon degeneration", but there is just a hint of the concept here. Well, with regards to the vulnerability of non-Heron Laguz to getting riled up by chaotic energies. Having more power in their bodies than Beorc does make them more vulnerable to temporary loss of reason it seems.

Although, we have to remember nurture vs. nature too. Muarim is very peaceful, because his enslavement abused the wild ego out of him. Gallians and Phoenicians live in free, safe societies, where unless you take a high-end government job- king or diplomatic advisor/general- Tibarn and Ranulf- you can go your entire life without meeting a Beorc. In those circumstances, a "culture of masochism" could take hold. It isn't that Laguz can't farm, make weapons, or create bejeweled tapestries (to think of fancy art), it could be a culture that rejects them. A culture that prides itself on showing no weakness against Beorc or taking up their more despicable ways. Change the culture, and I'd think the Laguz would be fine. -But we have no proof, because we have no mixed/open societies, barring Hatari and we don't see that.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Was Ashnard in power when he left? I thought that Greil was a Daein commoner who got his position as one of the Four Riders in a similar way. Isn't Greil of common birth?

626: Daein’s great change
Within Daein, various mysterious changes occurred.

General Gawain of the Four Riders mysteriously vanished, along with his fiancée.

A plague gripped Daein, resulting in countless deaths, including deaths of the King and almost all of the royal family.

Same year: Bird tribes’ oath
To avenge the Serenes Massacre, Phoenicis began pillaging nearby Begnion ships. Also Kilvas took advantage of the situation and pillaged relentlessly.

Within Begnion, awareness of the the Bird tribes’ actions steadily rised.

627: Ashnard’s ascension
Ashnard, the sole survivor of the Daein royal family, became the 13th King of Daein.

We're never told if Gawain was of noble blood or not, but meritocracy is distinctly Ashnard's doing.

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1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd like to mention that you don't need metallurgy to create a "complex society" or "civilization". The Incas, the Mayans, the Aztecs, the Iroquois, historians would agree they were all sophisticated societies, empires even. And although the Mayans and Aztecs had writing (Incas and Iroquois had pseudo- writing), none of these ever learned how to smelt ore into tools and weapons, they remained in the "Stone Age" until European Contact. Why no metallurgy? Thats a mystery, but nobody except bigots would blame "race".

And I'm not quite sure where the "Children" monikers came from. I wanted to think it started as Begnion's racist rhetoric and not Goddess-given, to cast the Beorc as intelligent and the Laguz as brutish children in need of paternalism. But I can't find a source right now.

 

I seem to remember someone who knew the truth about the goddess saying the Ashunera gave them those names, but I guess we'll find out eventually.

As for metallurgy, while you can certainly make a complex society without it... the laguz have metal stuff, hence why I asked how much they know about the craft. And because of one detail, either the laguz clearly must know how to make metal, or the writers didn't give any thought to Gallian fashion worldbuilding at all.

I HAVE to assume the collars, at bare minimum, were made in Gallia, and thus that they know how to make little metal bells and buckles. There's no way in hell someone in Gallia saw some beorc's pet cats with collars around their necks and thought "hey, those symbols of being the subserviant pets of our historic oppressors would look super cute on me! Let's steal some!"

But then that begs the question of how environmentally friendly you can be about making metal. You'd certainly need to burn stuff. If the Goldoans weren't completely isolationist, I'd assume that they use their dragon breath to do all the metalsmithing, and export it to other laguz countries. But as it stands... if the "minimal interference" stuff you mention is true... what are they doing to make metal?

  

1 hour ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

We're never told if Gawain was of noble blood or not, but meritocracy is distinctly Ashnard's doing.


That would be a huge disappointment if Ike actually was secretly of noble blood this whole time.

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4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

I HAVE to assume the collars, at bare minimum, were made in Gallia, and thus that they know how to make little metal bells and buckles. There's no way in hell someone in Gallia saw some beorc's pet cats with collars around their necks and thought "hey, those symbols of being the subserviant pets of our historic oppressors would look super cute on me! Let's steal some!"

 

Scavaging and production aren't the only options. There's also trade. Unless there's some reference I'm over looking of Beorc being completely banned from entering Non Goldoa Laguz countries, ordinary beorc traders crossing the boarder and trading with Laguz seems completely reasonable to assume. As Lehte points out, these things do have their uses so Laguz would want them if they're not making it themselves and I'm sure there's stuff growing in the Laguz countryside that they can provide traders (of course if we assume collars were taken by trade then that just conjures up an image of a trader pawning off a collar on an ignorant laguz by showing it off as if its a necklace).

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

I love how Greil and Petrine's conversation amounts to:

Guys! I'll distract her! Get out of here!”

You think I'm just gonna let you lure me out of here?”

I dunno, are you? Can you resist the urge to fight... all of this?”

...Fuck, no, I can't. Fine, let's get a room.”

 

Fair fucks to Petrine for standing up to Greil when she has weapon triangle disadvantage over him. Unless the flame lance ignores the weapon triangle because it's magic. In any case I was always left dissapointed that they never have Greil deployed on any of these maps even as an ally. We never get to see his (real) stats, even though he does have endgame level stats coded. It also means Urvan is just that one cutscene weapon that's almost retconned into the story (even though once again it's in the code just never seen) instead of actually being Greil's axe that's viewable in game by checking his inventory.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Jesus. The Black Knight really is stone cold. Just threatening to torture Greil's children in front of him to force him to admit where the medallion is. Of course, merely grabbing Mist to torture her would probably have him recognize the chain around her neck, even if she typically tucks the actual medallion into her shirt.

 

So this line, I said I had a problem with it before so allow me my mini rant. It's...kind of a plot hole? Greil has been in hiding from Daein since before Ashnard's rise to power, and its implied he believes he's been quite successfully hiding, as he thinks the only reason Daein's found him is because of the war. So this begs the question, how does the Black Knight know about Mist's existence? She wasn't present in the first scene with the Black Knight, as that was the combat units only and even if we assume she was just in the background, with no speaking lines there's no way to know she's Greil's daughter. Even observing the groups with scouts before or afterwards, there's no way to know who Mist is in relation to any other part of the mercenary group. Mist is just some random girl like Rolf with any potential reason for being there being completely unknown. Now as it happens, Radiant Dawn does provide an explanation as to why Zelguis would know about Mist's existence, given he was there when Greil went berserk and interacted with Mist. But 1, that doesn't really help Path of Radiance as it's a retcon. The script should be able to stand on it's own unless it's intentionally framed as some kind of mystery, which it's not. And 2, neither Ike nor Greil react at all to the Black Knight correctly deducing that Greil has a daughter with zero apparent evidence. They both think they've successfully been avoiding Daein yet this general has intimate knowledge about their group. Maybe they assume the Black Knight asked some villagers around the initial base where they used to work about the mercenary group, but I'd still expect a "How do you know about Mist" to come from one of them. So it's not a plot hole in the fact that it's impossible for the Black Knight to know about Mist (as we later see exactly how he knows),  but the line really doesn't work with the given knowledge the characters have. It's unfortunate because if Ike or Greil did react to the Black Knight knowing about Mist then it would have given a sense that this mysterious iron clad warrior knows way more than he should and it would have been excellent foreshadowing for the reveal of how later in Radiant Dawn. But with no reaction it comes across more like it was just a mistake in the script.

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9 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

This is a fascinating, but extremely uncomfortable subject, and I would be amazed by anyone brave and intelligent enough to do it justice. But that person probably isn't me, so let's keep moving

I would say that they have the capacity for intelligence, but the tribes' culture as a whole is not set up for intelligence to succeed. Lions and hawks pick their leaders solely off strength. Tibarn is like a best case scenario, and the lions are about to be stuck with Skimir. The ravens have plenty of cunning, but actively choose to use it for things like piracy. The dragons and herons are clearly capable of advancement, but choose seclusion and a simplistic lifestyle instead.

I think their representation between the games doesn't help. I would argue PoR shows them as nomadic; perfectly capable of advancement but choosing to live simply with the land. But man in RD, they're portrayed like morons....again... and again. All of the interactions during the war, the blood pact nonsense, everything Dheginsea does / says, it's like they for some reason wanted them to look dumb. 

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1 hour ago, Boomhauer007 said:

I would say that they have the capacity for intelligence, but the tribes' culture as a whole is not set up for intelligence to succeed. Lions and hawks pick their leaders solely off strength. Tibarn is like a best case scenario, and the lions are about to be stuck with Skimir. The ravens have plenty of cunning, but actively choose to use it for things like piracy. The dragons and herons are clearly capable of advancement, but choose seclusion and a simplistic lifestyle instead.

I think their representation between the games doesn't help. I would argue PoR shows them as nomadic; perfectly capable of advancement but choosing to live simply with the land. But man in RD, they're portrayed like morons....again... and again. All of the interactions during the war, the blood pact nonsense, everything Dheginsea does / says, it's like they for some reason wanted them to look dumb. 

I don't know. Dheginsea is acting pretty rationally in my view. His primary concern is always about stopping the Apocalypse. Much wider scope than the wars that come ago on the continent. I actually have the opposite opinion to most in that I find the laguz aren't stupid enough for their "Children of Wisdom and Children of Strength" thing to apply. Skimir is the only one that ever comes across as a moron. All the others seem just as wise and sensible as any given Beorc in the story.

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2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I don't know. Dheginsea is acting pretty rationally in my view. His primary concern is always about stopping the Apocalypse. Much wider scope than the wars that come ago on the continent. I actually have the opposite opinion to most in that I find the laguz aren't stupid enough for their "Children of Wisdom and Children of Strength" thing to apply. Skimir is the only one that ever comes across as a moron. All the others seem just as wise and sensible as any given Beorc in the story.

Well if that's the case, then the beorc got completely fucked over, didn't they? Like I said, if beorc aren't smarter, then the goddess split those precursor beings into two races and then made one of them that just can't transform.

Also, remember that back towards the beginning of the initial racial conflict, presumably back when the tech level was low, laguz had the upper hand and enslaved the beorc. But it sounds like once the beorc started inventing shit, the laguz started losing dominance and never got it back. Was that really out of a stubborn pride to not use the weapons of their slaves turned slavers? Even as their entire society was being overturned?

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6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well if that's the case, then the beorc got completely fucked over, didn't they? Like I said, if beorc aren't smarter, then the goddess split those precursor beings into two races and then made one of them that just can't transform.

Also, remember that back towards the beginning of the initial racial conflict, presumably back when the tech level was low, laguz had the upper hand and enslaved the beorc. But it sounds like once the beorc started inventing shit, the laguz started losing dominance and never got it back. Was that really out of a stubborn pride to not use the weapons of their slaves turned slavers? Even as their entire society was being overturned?

Oh it's not an issue I have with the world building. I do believe the beorc have an advantage in that regard, I just think the story doesn't go to many lengths to show us that by having Skimir has the only typical laguz.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Oh it's not an issue I have with the world building. I do believe the beorc have an advantage in that regard, I just think the story doesn't go to many lengths to show us that by having Skimir has the only typical laguz.

Fair enough. As for your comments earlier:

10 hours ago, Jotari said:

So this line, I said I had a problem with it before so allow me my mini rant. It's...kind of a plot hole? Greil has been in hiding from Daein since before Ashnard's rise to power, and its implied he believes he's been quite successfully hiding, as he thinks the only reason Daein's found him is because of the war. So this begs the question, how does the Black Knight know about Mist's existence? She wasn't present in the first scene with the Black Knight, as that was the combat units only and even if we assume she was just in the background, with no speaking lines there's no way to know she's Greil's daughter. Even observing the groups with scouts before or afterwards, there's no way to know who Mist is in relation to any other part of the mercenary group. Mist is just some random girl like Rolf with any potential reason for being there being completely unknown. Now as it happens, Radiant Dawn does provide an explanation as to why Zelguis would know about Mist's existence, given he was there when Greil went berserk and interacted with Mist. But 1, that doesn't really help Path of Radiance as it's a retcon. The script should be able to stand on it's own unless it's intentionally framed as some kind of mystery, which it's not. And 2, neither Ike nor Greil react at all to the Black Knight correctly deducing that Greil has a daughter with zero apparent evidence. They both think they've successfully been avoiding Daein yet this general has intimate knowledge about their group. Maybe they assume the Black Knight asked some villagers around the initial base where they used to work about the mercenary group, but I'd still expect a "How do you know about Mist" to come from one of them. So it's not a plot hole in the fact that it's impossible for the Black Knight to know about Mist (as we later see exactly how he knows),  but the line really doesn't work with the given knowledge the characters have. It's unfortunate because if Ike or Greil did react to the Black Knight knowing about Mist then it would have given a sense that this mysterious iron clad warrior knows way more than he should and it would have been excellent foreshadowing for the reveal of how later in Radiant Dawn. But with no reaction it comes across more like it was just a mistake in the script

I'm not so sure a "how do you know about Mist" reaction is that appropriate. First off, they've got a lot more on their plates at the moment, but more importantly...

Ena said she was going to do research on the Greil Mercenaries, didn't she? I know Petrine said it wasn't necessary, but it still sounds like something she'd have done. And it's not like Mist's existence was some kind of secret. Anyone who knew much about the Greil Mercenaries would know Greil had a daughter. She wasn't kept under lock and key. She was allowed to go pick flowers in the meadow with nobody coming with her but Rolf, so...

Also, Greil already knows who this guy is. These two have a past together, so it's not exactly crazy to think this guy, who's clearly personally invested in fighting Greil man to man, would have been keeping tabs on Greil unbeknownst to him since after he left Daein.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Fair enough. As for your comments earlier:

I'm not so sure a "how do you know about Mist" reaction is that appropriate. First off, they've got a lot more on their plates at the moment, but more importantly...

Ena said she was going to do research on the Greil Mercenaries, didn't she? I know Petrine said it wasn't necessary, but it still sounds like something she'd have done. And it's not like Mist's existence was some kind of secret. Anyone who knew much about the Greil Mercenaries would know Greil had a daughter. She wasn't kept under lock and key. She was allowed to go pick flowers in the meadow with nobody coming with her but Rolf, so...

Also, Greil already knows who this guy is. These two have a past together, so it's not exactly crazy to think this guy, who's clearly personally invested in fighting Greil man to man, would have been keeping tabs on Greil unbeknownst to him since after he left Daein.

You are that could work if 1) We didn't know that it was completely unnecessary because we know exactly when Zelgius found out about Mist's existence and 2) If any character's in universe commented on this rather informed knowledge. If they had then I wouldn't have an issue at all as it would make Daein seem more powerful and resourceful. Most wasn't exactly kept hidden away, but Greil and his entire family were in hiding from Daein. For them to have intimate knowledge of the make up if Greil's family suggests they know more than Greil, believing he was safe, would have assumed. It's less that the Black Knight knows and more what him knowing implies for the heroes that is left entirely uncommented on.

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3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

You are that could work if 1) We didn't know that it was completely unnecessary because we know exactly when Zelgius found out about Mist's existence and 2) If any character's in universe commented on this rather informed knowledge. If they had then I wouldn't have an issue at all as it would make Daein seem more powerful and resourceful. Most wasn't exactly kept hidden away, but Greil and his entire family were in hiding from Daein. For them to have intimate knowledge of the make up if Greil's family suggests they know more than Greil, believing he was safe, would have assumed. It's less that the Black Knight knows and more what him knowing implies for the heroes that is left entirely uncommented on.

But remember that before this line, the Black Knight already revealed he knows who Greil really is. If there was going to be any shock that his attempts to hide from Daein had failed, it would have been there, not when BK mentions Mist.

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