Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Jotari]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

But remember that before this line, the Black Knight already revealed he knows who Greil really is. If there was going to be any shock that his attempts to hide from Daein had failed, it would have been there, not when BK mentions Mist.

But from Greil's perspective this could just as easily be because the Black Knight has seen him personally and recognised him. That the Black Knight not only knows about him and the medallion but about his family too suggests a more elaborate form if knowledge. And even then in Ike's case the Black Knight is some one completely random introduced into this equation. By all rights Ike should be assuming the Black Knight is someone from Greil's past taking place after Mist was born rather than before he himself was even born.

[Alastor15243]

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

But from Greil's perspective this could just as easily be because the Black Knight has seen him personally and recognised him. That the Black Knight not only knows about him and the medallion but about his family too suggests a more elaborate form if knowledge. And even then in Ike's case the Black Knight is some one completely random introduced into this equation. By all rights Ike should be assuming the Black Knight is someone from Greil's past taking place after Mist was born rather than before he himself was even born.

But why is it a problem that it doesn't make sense in this game?

The mystery was never intended to be solved in this game. Whether you beat him or not, he vanishes without being unmasked, still an enigma. So I don't think it's fair to expect all of the questions surrounding him to make sense given the knowledge we have at the time, and then, as you said before, say that the explanation in Radiant Dawn, the game the mystery was always intended to be explained in, doesn't count because it's a retcon. It isn't explained how Greil isn't surprised the Black Knight knows about Mist, but then so much of what happened between the Black Knight and Greil before Ike walked in on that final battle is left equally unexplained.

It's heavily implied that that encounter with the Black Knight before they went to the Gallian Castle was not the first time the BK met Greil as the BK. From what I saw, I'm morally certain that Greil and BK ran into each other during the big diversion mission with Gatrie and Shinon, and we can't conclusively say anything Greil knows or doesn't know here is a plothole if we don't know what took place before. And if they didn't have an encounter before then, then there are a hell of a lot more plotholes in Greil's behavior than just Greil not being surprised BK knows about Mist.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Jotari]

44 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

But why is it a problem that it doesn't make sense in this game?

The mystery was never intended to be solved in this game. Whether you beat him or not, he vanishes without being unmasked, still an enigma. So I don't think it's fair to expect all of the questions surrounding him to make sense given the knowledge we have at the time, and then, as you said before, say that the explanation in Radiant Dawn, the game the mystery was always intended to be explained in, doesn't count because it's a retcon. It isn't explained how Greil isn't surprised the Black Knight knows about Mist, but then so much of what happened between the Black Knight and Greil before Ike walked in on that final battle is left equally unexplained.

It's heavily implied that that encounter with the Black Knight before they went to the Gallian Castle was not the first time the BK met Greil as the BK. From what I saw, I'm morally certain that Greil and BK ran into each other during the big diversion mission with Gatrie and Shinon, and we can't conclusively say anything Greil knows or doesn't know here is a plothole if we don't know what took place before. And if they didn't have an encounter before then, then there are a hell of a lot more plotholes in Greil's behavior than just Greil not being surprised BK knows about Mist.

Because it's not presented as a mystery. It's there without comment or notice, to the extent that to me it comes across more like an oversight than an actual plan.

[Alastor15243]

Path of Radiance Day 5: Chapter 8

Oh man, this sepia tone flashback of little boy Ike sparring with his father... ouch.

And then it just cuts to a CG of Ike and Mist standing in front of Greil's grave, topped with his mighty axe, Urvan.

Oh, and poor Mist! Oh my god, she's curled up in an upright ball on the ground, like she's trying to push herself into her own knees and just clip out of reality itself.

It looks like Ike's run out of tears to shed after initially watching Greil get stabbed. I don't think we'll actually see a sad portrait from him.

But we sure as hell get one from Mist. Poor thing.

Oh, and then Mist tells Ike not to lead the company because then if he dies she'll be all alone oh Mist precious child please don't cry!

Man, this is such a somber scene. The complete lack of music as Ike starts talking with Titania and Soren is really fitting. I've noticed that a lot, actually, that several talk scenes like to not use music, both in this game and in others in the franchise, as if with the intent of making it more impactful when music actually plays.

Yep, and this is where Oscar and Boyd come in, revealing Shinon and Gatrie both ditched the party the second Titania announced that Ike was going to be the new commander.

And Soren just does not give a shit here. Wow, classic Soren. Shinon and Gatrie leave and he's just like “we'll just have to bolster our numbers then.”

And then... yes. “His Father's Son” starts playing when Ike says he'll accept command. Awesome.

...Man... the story and writing of this game is... just so good. It's weird, but I think my memory of how good Blazing Blade and Sacred Stones were got colored and enhanced to both be brought up to the standards of this game when I was a kid. I think when I looked back on the stories of those games, I kind of just imagined they were all this good. That, or I just had no standards for storytelling back then and couldn't tell that Blazing Blade was better than Sacred Stones, or that Path of Radiance was better than either of them.

Soren is... surprisingly cynical about his own worth to the group when he questions how much of a use he'll be. I kind of assumed more arrogance from someone like him, but... low self-esteem as a part of his general cynicism actually... makes a lot of sense too, given his backstory.

...Actually, with Titania talking about all the logistics Ike has to worry about now that he's commander, it's actually quite fitting that now is the first chapter where the base mechanic comes into play, since now Ike is fully in charge of preparing and outfitting the party.

...Huh. So they've had fellow refugees at this castle the whole time and they're only now being mentioned? I suppose it is a castle, and therefore pretty big, and they haven't had many dialogue scenes inside the castle anyway since getting here... but it seems odd that Ike didn't hear about them until now. Like, I'm sure Greil would have made sure the castle was actually secure before letting everyone relax, and something like “just some merchants” would have come up with regards to the results. Maybe that just wasn't info that he shared with everyone?

I like that Ike's first order as commander is for Titania to get some rest. It's a good sign.

...Okay, so that's interesting. So we've gotten to our first base, and it's a Gallian castle. Now, first, before I forget...

...Yep! Shinon and Gatrie left their stuff in the convoy. Good on them!

Anyway, now... this is the first castle we've seen that's actually conclusively in Gallian territory. Which means this was probably built by beast laguz.

...Shit, getting distracted again, but I like that tiny little visual effect of the glowing candle. Makes the picture feel at least a little alive, even if it's not much.

But back to my point...

The room we're in seems to have been made entirely out of fairly rough stonework. It makes sense that Laguz wouldn't want to use much wood, if any, so that seems about right. I really wish I knew more about Gallian society in terms of... “industry”, I suppose is the term? There's just enough we know about Gallia to know it makes things differently from the rest of the world, but not enough to know what that different way actually is, which is... a bit frustrating from a worldbuilding perspective.

Though Jotari brought up a really interesting point about trade. I suppose it's believable that racial tensions aren't so high that beorc willing to trade with them can't find laguz willing to make a deal. I had kinda been operating under that assumption, that the laguz countries would only be trading with each other, because there aren't actually any beorc countries where the general civilian population is friendly with the laguz (the alliance between Gallia and Crimea is, in practice, only between the royal families, as will be stated when we meet Caineghis). That's why I assumed it was a “make them on their own or else scavenge them” deal. But the idea of trade with beorc has a lot of merit to it in terms of how the laguz are getting their hands on metal. Because as I said before, if they want to do minimal interference with nature... well you can't melt steel without burning shit.

And yeah, clearly the merchant caravan that we get to work with was welcomed into Gallian borders, despite not being affiliated with the Crimean royal family like the Greil Mercenaries tangentially are. So it seems that random traders and merchants are welcome at least some distance into Gallia's borders.

Actually, that's another trope I have a weird liking for: the “blind to all colors but green and gold” businessman. The “bigotry is bad for business” businessman. Characters who run businesses in stories with themes of racism, who have refused to deny their goods and services to the people they're supposed to hate, or are willing to hire them, because they recognize it's in their financial interests to deal with them, and possibly have as a result gotten to know them a lot better than their peers simply because their job demands they spend more time around different people and cultures and become less ignorant of them. That's actually a pretty fascinating story that could have been told with the merchant characters if they actually got support conversations, talking about what it's like to travel to laguz lands and do business with them, and how their opinions on laguz might have changed as a result.

...Though if it is traders who are providing the laguz with metal, then like Jotari also said, that says some very dark things about how cat bells and collars made by beorc became high fashion among laguz ladies. But then again, judging by Lyre's pouty comment in Radiant Dawn about how she “put on [her] best collar” to impress Ranulf, they seem to know they're collars, so the idea of racist merchants selling pet collars to laguz while claiming they're just necklaces probably didn't happen exactly like that. And granted, collars aren't just for pets and slaves, and yes, the two collars we see laguz women wearing don't look like actual cat collars (Lethe's bells are on the ends of those weird scarf twin-tails instead of the actual neck part, and Lyre's collar has some kind of charm, not a bell). But this still feels like an exceedingly bizarre thing for Gallian women to adopt as part of their fashion sense if it was imported from beorc merchants and even vaguely reminiscent of the trappings of the beorc practice of pet ownership (to say nothing of what the beorc might have made their actual laguz slaves wear).

...Okay, so I just selected Oscar and Ike's support conversation, and it's weird that this is the first opportunity we get to hear about Mist using the staff. I'm going to have to check that scene in the chapter... I think after this, where Mist shows up as a playable character. If Ike expresses surprise that Mist knows how to use the staff at all... then this support conversation was perhaps poorly timed.

And if this is giving information too early by mistake, then I would also find it odd that this conversation specifically was the one conversation they decided should be made available this chapter, when support points are basically rigged by 85%+ of the chapters having mandatory deployment. This support system does give support points on an “in the same chapter together x number of times” basis, right?

Oooh! That's a nice detail! Apparently Shinon is one of only three people who've ever complimented Oscar on his cooking! Considering the other two are Mist and Rhys, that puts him in a pretty high bracket in that specific regard. Nice little bit of humanization for somebody who otherwise only has his friendships with Gatrie and Rolf to keep him from being seen as nothing but an abrasive racist asshole.

“I mean, my brothers are used to my cooking, and Soren hates everything. I think he'd stop eating if he could...”

Never before have I heard a statement so ridiculous that nevertheless feels so correct.

Awww, poor Mist. Apparently she sucks at cooking. Or at least she did. She's gotten better apparently.

Anyway, that was a cute convo. But the main reason I supported Ike with Oscar is because they're both of the absurdly broken earth affinity. If I recall correctly, it's not quite as crazy in this game as it is in the next game, but it's still nutso. Earth just dumps all of its allotted boost points into evasion, which allows characters to really, really reliably dodgetank. Most of the characters with an earth affinity in Radiant Dawn are really good as a result. And while for story reasons I usually prefer A ranking Ike and Soren in this game... I'd like the transfer bonus bond support I'm gonna get to be with the guy he's actually going to be doing most of his teaming up with. Plus, I'd like to see one of Soren's supports with someone else for a change. I don't think I've ever seen him support with someone who isn't Ike. And... that's probably because he only has one other support partner. Who we don't have yet. I'm not 100% sure, but I think that might be Stefan. Because they're both branded. So yeah, whoever it is, I'm gonna have to use that character and check those supports out.

Right, onto the info talks.

...Okay, now that the base has given me a lot more to discuss, I may only be doing one update a day from now on. I barely managed to do 2 in a timely fashion without consuming most of my free time yesterday, and I think all of this dialogue I'll have to comment on may push it over the top.

…

...Jesus, I think I just metaphorically pissed myself thinking about what playing Three Houses is gonna be like when I have to make it even longer by typing out my thoughts on everything that sticks out at me.

My first ironman playthrough of Three Houses was ninety hours long.

On Crimson Flower.

The shortest route.

Well, Aimee makes the first line of the merchant introduction, and she's immediately smitten with Ike. “My, and you are a young one, aren't you?”

Note the word choice. Not handsome, but young.

Granted, she's still blatantly smitten with the guy in Radiant Dawn even when he's a fully-grown, buff manly man, but that line makes her sound like some kind of serious cougar.

But anyway, I really like that the caravan is an actual character(s!) again. I didn't even realize how much I missed that while playing Sacred Stones. Possibly because I was too distracted by the numerous other things wrong. I only commented on the gameplay aspects of the convoy being with the lord. But then, that isn't the case here. If you want your shit, you have to take it out of the convoy before battle. That's another good method, and I certainly like it better than the “infinite inventory lord” system, though I liked how Merlinus functioned a bit better. Plus, having him on the map allowed for support conversations, which I'd have loved these merchants to have.

So, now we've got Aimee, Muston, Jorge and Daniel. Jorge. Not to be confused with Jeorge... another blond Fire Emblem character.

Hmmm... I seem to remember Daniel saying something about raw materials, describing a system that was removed in the non-Japanese versions even though the text describing it (and the three star conversation ranking indicating you get something out of it) was still there. I guess that was Radiant Dawn then, because that conversation I just read was just two stars.

I'm a little disappointed that you can't re-read info conversations, but then, you can't re-read supports either I guess.

We get a quick “conversation” where Ike overhears Titania crying her eyes out in the forest over the death of the man she loved. Aw.

We also got a super quick talk with Rolf, where he feels compelled to reassure Ike that Mist is going to be okay as long as she still has Ike.

Aw.

Yeah, I like this “info” system. It allows for a bit more optional dialogue to spice up preparation, and also flesh out some characters with time-sensitive-and-relevant events without having to make them part of the main story. Actually, I have a feeling that past this point, we're going to see less and less involvement in the main story from characters who aren't Ike, Titania, Soren and Elincia, and that the slack is going to be picked up by these info conversations where it's easier to program the conditions for their appearance as “is this character alive”.

Something like this or My Castle is really about as big as I think the between-missions prep “minigame” needs to be. Really, there's nothing that Three Houses' school system functionally accomplishes that couldn't have been incorporated into Path of Radiance with ease, and the only difference would be that in Path of Radiance it would take roughly a tenth of the time. Really, what is that whole school tutoring minigame but bonus exp for weapon levels? When you boil it down to its core, that's really all you're doing. Except you can get your bonus exp done in a couple of minutes in Path of Radiance, whereas in Three Houses it takes god knows how long and it's done on three or four separate occasions per mission between sessions of wandering around a ridiculously massive school building, procedurally generated skirmish battles, and fishing minigames.

Also, the fact that the only thing that changes visually between bases is a single background painting means that you get to go all over the world and still use this base system, as opposed to, say, Three Houses, where they had to completely waste the whole “sense of real time passing” conceit to the month system by having everyone constantly traveling to and from Garreg Mach between every battle. In Part 1 that was already a bit silly depending on how many skirmishes you did and where they were, but in Part 2 it goes completely off the rails into Loopytown, wherein it crashes straight through the front doors of the First Loopytown Bank.

But moving on to the remaining events, Ike has a talk with Boyd, where we learn a little bit about how Boyd, Oscar and Rolf wound up with the Greil Mercenaries. And I like how Ike tells him that if he's sticking around due to some past debt, that's been long since paid off, and how Boyd replies that it's not about that anymore, that they've become family now.

Now this is interesting. I'm reading the talk with Rhys. Apparently Greil told Ike when he was a kid that people who are cried for the most after their death get the most blessings in the afterlife. Which... apparently is hitting Ike hard, because after that CGI cutscene, he hasn't been able to cry at all. I like this. I like how Ike's actually managing to talk about his feelings despite being so stoic. It wasn't even necessary at this point, given all the other stuff the game's done to make it clear what kind of an impact Greil's death had, and yet I still appreciated the little moment nonetheless. It still added to the experience a good deal.

Right, now on to forging weapons and Jesus Fucking Christ forged tomes are expensive. Wow. Like holy shit, that is ridiculous. 15K just to add 5 attack power to a wind tome? Wooooow.

Also, apparently all of those “increase two stat growths by 5%” bands are worth 2k each, which... seems pretty valuable for shit you just get for free from a second playthrough onwards.

And since the bonuses are just skill and luck, I think we can do without the sword band. We could probably use the money more. But I'll wait until we actually run out of that starting money before doing that.

Oh that's right, item availability changes each chapter or something. That or it slowly gets better, but I can't imagine why we'd start out with hand axes but not javelins if it's just going to objectively improve. Anyway. Gotta get some of these hand axes while we have the opportunity.

Honestly, the ridiculous weight of the hammer kind of defeats its purpose. You can't double with it, often even against knights, the people it's supposed to be used on. So... I think I'm selling it to buy another hand axe.

...Yep, I'm definitely ditching the sword band. Not only is skill not a high priority to cap, but luck is basically impossible to cap, because for some reason this game has a global luck cap of 40. Which means unless someone is really close to capping resistance and doesn't need help capping anything else useful, I'm probably going to ditch the pegasus band too once I get it, and the priest band once... I guess once I need money. But for now... selling the sword band.

Anyway, Mia isn't worth using in this game. She doesn't have good stats, and she also isn't likely to cap anything but speed, meaning I can't even use this playthrough to make her better for the game where swordfighters are useful.

Titania doesn't really need a band, since she doesn't have enough levels left to make any kind of growth boost matter. Except for the knight ward, with its weird hidden massive speed growth boost. She'll be making extensive use of that.

Apparently Soren just flat-out doesn't have a strength growth while equipped with tomes. He has a base of 5%, and all “magic weapons” reduce your strength growth by 5%. Unless that's literally talking about magic “weapons”, and tomes fall under “everything else”.

But another thing is that this isn't something you can just slap on people when it's level up time. You have to use it on them the whole time, because they gain these growth points as they gain experience. They just don't get the stats until they hit 100.

...Anyway, I think I've done everything I can. I bought some hand axes and some more basic weapons for everyone, and that's pretty much it.

Let's advance to the actual map.

[Alastor15243]

Chapter 8 Continued

...Hmmm... Interesting how this room in the castle is all mossy. It didn't look that way in the candlelight during base mode.

Right, so, given how they're saying that the Daein soldiers pursuing the Greil Mercenaries into Gallia's borders was a particularly mad and ballsy thing for them to do, that pretty much confirms we weren't in Gallia before in that last castle.

Oscar says that if they've gotten this far, “getting out of here alive was never one of their priorities”.

...Which seems weird. What can they accomplish for Daein that doesn't require them to get out of here alive with the princess? Does that mean their orders for her have changed?

But anyway, we're starting now. And we've run into our first enemy I've been able to find who has a second weapon! The boss has a steel lance and a short spear, which... I mean, I guess doing that just with bosses would be okay, but it does make that “what weapon they're holding now” indicator a little less useful.

Now... having only seven guys to defend three entrances, when only one can truly tank and the others can just kind of take a hit... means I'm a bit scared here. And I can't even imagine what this map would be like if I had lost even one of these guys earlier. Probably hell. Which is a shame. As manageable as I've found the game so far, this is still a mark against the game's ironmannability, at least in the early game. We'll be getting more members very, very soon, but still.

You know, before playing this game again, I was thinking that it would be cool if a remake added some “Don't Speak Her Name” type of song to this chapter, but... it's a lot less of a “dark hour” than I remember it being. Ike's not feeling overly down on himself or his ability to rule or anything. The tragedy and the “I'll do what I have to do regardless” moment have already happened, and now he's ready to take on the role of leader. If anything, something like “In Search of Victory ~ Leif” would be more appropriate, but that doesn't quite fit either, since this isn't quite the kind of triumphant battle that that music sounds like it should belong to (setting aside what it was actually used for). But I do feel this chapter still deserves its own map theme in a remake... I'm just no longer quite sure what form that music should take.

Back to strategy talk: Titania's obviously taking the front. Nobody else can be counted on to take that many hits, since these are cavalry we're dealing with, and we can't just wall off and minimize the hits whoever's guarding takes. They can just move out of the way and make room for the next one, after all. The people at the sides have more leeway, but not too much. Ike and Oscar are going to tackle the west side because that's where Ilyana is, and I wanna take advantage of Oscar's support boost with Ike too. Meanwhile Boyd is going to tackle the east side by getting warded and just chugging vulneraries, while Soren provides extra chip damage against the enemy in front, Rhys provides extra healing if necessary, and Mia gives whichever one I use that turn a good shove out of the way of 2-range after they do their thing.

Hopefully the longbow guy goes down quick.

Actually, I'm gonna lure him in with Soren at the edge of his range in case he moves first, so hopefully he goes down on turn 2.

Nope, the knights went in first, but we've still got options.

Actually, the west side is turning out to be much more dangerous than the east side or the south side. The cavalry aren't that strong, but there's a poleaxe user on the west side, and also an incoming magic user I need to make sure not to kill. So I'm having Oscar, with Ike's support bonus as he retreats to heal, block the south entrance while Titania goes to the west side to hopefully take out the poleaxe user and some of these incoming soldiers. I've also got it set up so that Ike can go in to recruit Ilyana if things work out as far as placement of enemy units is concerned.

Alright, so, the enemy build-up is way too much to recruit Ilyana now, so I have to give Titania a melee weapon, make sure the ranged space in front of her is clear, and then hope Ilyana doesn't attack Titania in melee anyway.

OH THANK GOD.

I assumed since every enemy had melee weapons except Ilyana, then Ilyana wouldn't be forced to attack in melee because no enemy would take up the one 2-range spot instead of attacking Titania and dying. But it turns out I forgot that there was a soldier who couldn't reach Titania, and who would land exactly on that space. Thankfully, miraculously, a knight came in and attacked Titania in melee and survived, robbing Ilyana of the chance to off herself.

Also, speaking of... I always thought Ilyana's name was Llyana, because the I and the lower case L looked identical and it didn't occur to me that if it were two ls, that would mean her name was spelled in lower case. Funny, that.

Shit. I forgot to have Mia shove Soren after he killed the second knight. I really, really hope that one of the remaining knights still moves before the archers, or we could be fucked.

Thank goodness, that is indeed the case. The knight attacked Boyd in melee, and so only the longbowman had a chance, and even he didn't attack Soren.

And thankfully, the wounded knight on the west side that I didn't kill so I could free up the 2-range space again instead didn't retreat specifically one space to heal. So Ilyana is safe too.

Alright, just recruited Ilyana. I wonder why it lists a character's weight when selecting who to talk to. I don't see how that has any bearing at all.

I like how Ilyana just exudes such a “harmless sick puppy” aura that Ike just spontaneously starts worrying about her safety in the middle of the battlefield, despite recognizing her as on the enemy team. It's actually kind of cute how this ends up well and she gets reunited with her friends.

Also, I guess part of why Ike stopped to talk to her is that he had a feeling she was press-ganged, and he was right. Good intuition there.

Hmmm... Ike knows the weapons vendors by name... does that imply you need to see that event conversation in order to recruit Ilyana here? Or does the game just assume that still happened and you just didn't watch it happen?

Anyway, I might be tempted to check out her supports at some point, because she seems way more... normal than she did in her scenes in Radiant Dawn. I wanna see how much of this intense hunger thing was flanderization, and if she really talked about it that much in this game.

But at any rate, the major danger has passed now, and so Titania's heading off to get that soldier band from the boss. HP isn't a great bonus, but defense certainly is, so I'm gonna want to get my hands on that.

But it seems there's no need to come to him. The boss appears to be coming to us.

And the longbow finally decides to get in front of Boyd in order to attack Rhys. Ladies and gentlemen, we got 'im.

The game made a sound like new reinforcements arrived, but none did where the camera was pointing.

...But they did offscreen to the right for some reason. No big deal, just melee lance cavalry.

But actually... now that I think about what I've been doing with Titania this map... I like this! There was no one right answer for what to do with her. I wound up actually changing my mind and moving her around a lot, and using her more as a wild card in my deck of tricks rather than the “thing you need to use for this one specific side-task” that FE7 Marcus was, or the “way more power than what anything thrown at you could possibly handle” that Seth was. This is more like how FE6 handled Marcus, just... with a dash of what made Seth and Young Marcus cool thrown in. Really, it's just what I asked for when I complained about Young Marcus: a powerful panic button you can use to solve one of many tasks you have on your plate, leaving you to figure out the answer to the other two on your own.

And it's down to the wire. A missed attack from Titania last enemy phase means she has to rely on the next and final enemy phase with her barely-still-intact hand axe to take this guy out. At least three of her four remaining attacks against this guy need to hit, at a roughly 80ish percent chance.

Two of them hit on player phase, so it's just down to the enemy phase, which she's going to endure with a fresh level up.

Looks like I miscounted, and all four hits needed to hit.

Thankfully, they did, and the boss is down on the last enemy phase.

It's nice how they throw in a ton of completely pointless, purely atmospheric reinforcements at the end of the final phase you need to defend for, just to set the scene for the cutscene after you win.

So they fell back and hid within the castle, and... that's not going well. It's Titania, Soren, and Ike (the only ones guaranteed to be alive) all fighting off massive hordes of enemies that have breached their walls...

...Yeah, this is kind of a dumb setup. First, it relies on turn-based logic to make sense, what with the soldiers lining up to fight him one at a time, and Mist and Ike having time to talk about stuff.

...But ignoring that...

It's a pretty great scene, with Mist realizing that this is probably where they're all going to die, and she doesn't want to be away from Ike when it happens like what happened with their dad, even if Ike's right that he can find a way to at least get her and Rolf to safety alone. She'd rather be together with her family in death than alive and all alone.

And I like how Ike says “All right. Don't leave my side. But one thing... you're not going to see Mother just yet. I'm going to protect you. I'm not going to let you die. I gave Father my word.”

Incidentally, yes, I checked, Greil did indeed ask him to promise that.

I love how this generic soldier praises them for managing to defeat their general. I assume the general himself would be talking here if he were alive.

And then Lethe and Mordecai show up! Yay! The day is saved!

...Now, about that time you called our leader a sub-human right in front of us...

Yeah, Lethe is not nearly as forgiving of that incident as Ranulf was. But that hasn't come up yet, so let's see what Mordecai has to say.

I don't know why, but I find Mordecai so endearing. Like, his grammar is terrible, and he speaks in tiny sentences, but every single one of those tiny sentences is just so wholesome and likable.

...It does beg the question of why he's the only one not good at speaking beorc language though. Like, I'm pretty damned sure that the heron language is the only laguz language we ever even see anyone speak, and with the exception of Leanne, everyone else we run into, from the random Gallian peasant who thinks you can hide from a beorc by playing dead, to even the frankly idiotic and book-dumb Skrimir, is more fluent in “beorc” than Mordecai is.

Wooooooow Lethe is rude. But I love what Mordecai says in response. “Lethe! You are being bad.” That line has stuck with me as one of the most memorable single lines in the entire game. It's strangely cute.

And Lethe goes out of her way to negatively mis-interpret Ike's “we knew no other name for you” comment, but in fairness, like... that was a rather clumsy setup, and also Ike did know another name, so it'd be pretty easy for someone uncharitable to assume he was lying. But like... how the fuck did she get the job of interacting with beorc guests if she's this abrasive?

Yeah, most of what Lethe is saying here is just... cramming a bunch of “humans are racist and we hate you for enslaving us” exposition into this. Also, the whole “how easily you forget that you enslaved us” comment is, like... hilariously ironic considering it implies she forgot that the laguz were the ones who started it centuries ago.

And then Soren... steps in. He's had enough of being talked down to by Lethe. He's tired, he's injured, he's hungry, he's racist, and he's angry. Time to start talking back.

And he drops the S-H bomb.

As the music stops.

And then he goes on to say the only thing human about Lethe is her arrogance, which, I mean... yeah, she's an arrogant bitch, no arguments there.

And then Mordecai gets into a fight with Soren over his use of the slur, and... Ike takes the attack intended for Soren. Mordecai apologizes, but Soren steps out in front again and prepares...

...a blast of wind magic.

Against beast laguz.

Either Soren's forgetting his strategy here, or he's not actually planning to kill this guy.

...Nope. He wanted to kill him. He was volcanically pissed off that Mordecai hurt Ike and could have killed him, so that was him spellslinging with intent to kill.

I get that he's the mage associated with wind more than the others due to his weapon rank, but we haven't been able to get new wind magic for a while. Fire is the magic he's way more likely to have access to if he ran out of one type. I personally would've had him use fire to show off his tactical knowledge and his desire to kill Mordecai in that moment.

But then Ike tells him to stand down, and tells him off for provoking Mordecai. Also, weird that Sothe started the fight with Mordecai and not Lethe, the one who was actually being a complete and total ass.

But he stands down regardless.

Ike apologizes on Soren's behalf and asks for forgiveness, citing that while it's a poor excuse, they've lost loved ones recently and are all tired and not thinking as clearly as they could be.

Also, the sheer degree to which the situation escalated seems to have been enough to convince Lethe that she crossed a line too.

...Honestly... while I like parts of this scene, the actual inflammatory dialogue between Lethe and Soren was... really on-the-nose and kind of awkward. It didn't feel... genuine, if that's the right word. This didn't feel like a conversation between a woman who's interacting with a race she's heard nothing but mostly-true-but-not-the-whole-picture bad things about, and a jaded asshole who's been treated like absolute shit by her race and has absolutely no qualms about dropping slurs on her.

...But what I did like, though, is that they had Lethe drop the opposite slur repeatedly in her dialogue too, for a rewatch bonus after Ranulf explains this to Ike: Lethe called them “human”, which laguz only ever use as a slur against beorc.

...Which is curious because most beorc don't even know it's supposed to be an insult, and it's a word that they use regularly to describe themselves. Like, if I'm understanding this right, “human” wasn't even a word made to be a slur, it's just a word that became a slur because opinion of beorc was just so overwhelmingly negative in Gallia that, like with the word “retarded”, people just decided they needed a more polite word to use to describe it because they felt the old word had developed too much cultural baggage. So they went with the pre-existing term “beorc”. Basically without consulting any beorc at all.

In fact... is the term “beorc” pre-existing? If Ike didn't know about the word “beorc” until the laguz told him... how commonly known is it? Did the laguz in fact invent it? Were the terms originally “humans and laguz”, not “beorc and laguz”?

It's weird and a little dumb in a lot of ways, but... also kind of interesting in others.

Also...

...Apparently there was no bonus experience for this chapter. Curious.

But anyway... that's it for today.

Stay safe, everyone.

[Icelerate]

Alastor, are you going to compare Greil's death with Jeralt once you get to Three Houses? I was expecting you to talk about Greil/Jeralt and Ike/Byleth parallels a bit more. I would say Greil's death is handled better. 

Edited June 19, 2020 by Icelerate

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

Alastor, are you going to compare Greil's death with Jeralt once you get to Three Houses?

Almost certainly. Honestly, I could feel confident comparing it now probably, but I don't know if it would be appropriate since I haven't examined Jeralt's death in the marathon playlog format.

If people want me to discuss them more, though, I'm happy to.

But regarding the death scene, among other things, I feel it falls flat on its face for two crucial and huge reasons:

1: I give a shit about both Ike and Greil. I don't give a shit about Byleth, and the character is almost specifically designed so it's impossible to give a shit about them, so the entire father-child relationship is one-sided and feels incredibly hollow as a result.

2: Ike does everything in his conceivable power to save Greil, and still fails. Byleth only attempts to save Jeralt once, when we're given literally no indication that that's a limitation of their power and every reason to believe otherwise, and then after the fact, after they give up, they're told that if it didn't work the first time, it must have been Jeralt's "destiny", so there would have been no point in trying again.

I'll probably be repeating myself when we actually get to Blue Lions, but were I to do this scene, I would have had Jeralt's death happen while Byleth was away. I would have had Byleth triumph with some mission outside the monastery, have a big party scene where everyone's celebrating, and then have Byleth return home, see a classroom door strangely ajar, open it, and see their father lying on a classroom table, brutally impaled, already dead.

I then would have had Byleth's attempt to go back in time send them back as far as it could go, back to that party, which they leave in a terrified panic without even sparing the time to say a word to the others, riding back to the monastery at breakneck speed. Riding through the night. Riding until their horse collapses. Running until they collapse. Until they arrive at the monastery gates barely able to stand, but still pushing themselves to make it to that classroom and warn their father before he's murdered...

...only to open the door and see their father's still already been impaled.

They stare in dumbfounded shock that they didn't make it in time... only for Jeralt to open his eyes, just barely alive enough for Byleth to hear his last words. Which he says. And then Byleth, having expended the energy of three days at once just to make it there as fast as they could, collapses in a heap on the ground, tears streaming from their catatonic and shell-shocked eyes.

That's how you write a sad scene with a ridiculously overpowered character. You make a situation where they use all of their power, all of their effort, all of their will... and it still isn't enough to save the people they love.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 6/18/2020 at 6:14 PM, Alastor15243 said:

And because of one detail, either the laguz clearly must know how to make metal, or the writers didn't give any thought to Gallian fashion worldbuilding at all.

Catgirls wearing collars says less textile culture and more "anime fanservice- they can be your pet" to me.😛 

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

as opposed to, say, Three Houses, where they had to completely waste the whole “sense of real time passing” conceit to the month system by having everyone constantly traveling to and from Garreg Mach between every battle. In Part 1 that was already a bit silly depending on how many skirmishes you did and where they were, but in Part 2 it goes completely off the rails into Loopytown, wherein it crashes straight through the front doors of the First Loopytown Bank.

They had a solution they didn't take advantage of you know. All they had to do is go to the very, very, very, very depths of the monastery and activate the ancient ruins down there. That'd set Garreg Mach to mach speed, because the activated ruins would enable the entire complex above to fly. You don't ever leave the school, because it brings you everywhere.😀

Final Fantasy VIII had one good idea at a minimum.

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Right, now on to forging weapons and Jesus Fucking Christ forged tomes are expensive. Wow. Like holy shit, that is ridiculous. 15K just to add 5 attack power to a wind tome? Wooooow.

If you thought that was bad, try a min-maxed Light tome, thats 30646 total, more than 2/3rds of which is the Mt cost. 

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Actually, that's another trope I have a weird liking for: the “blind to all colors but green and gold” businessman. The “bigotry is bad for business” businessman. Characters who run businesses in stories with themes of racism, who have refused to deny their goods and services to the people they're supposed to hate, or are willing to hire them, because they recognize it's in their financial interests to deal with them, and possibly have as a result gotten to know them a lot better than their peers simply because their job demands they spend more time around different people and cultures and become less ignorant of them.

It's true of religion as well IRL. I read that that one Pope took issue with the Republic of Venice allowing Byzantine and Muslim envoys to practice their faiths in their embassies. Venice defended its choice, on the grounds it relied on international trade for its economic existence, upsetting its trading partners with a diplomatic slight when they aren't already at war (which they sometimes were) wouldn't be good for that. 

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Apparently Soren just flat-out doesn't have a strength growth while equipped with tomes. He has a base of 5%, and all “magic weapons” reduce your strength growth by 5%. Unless that's literally talking about magic “weapons”, and tomes fall under “everything else”.

Magic weapons means Sonic Sword and the ilk. For tomes:

Rank E spells (+ Light)	HP +5%			Skl -5%			Def -5%	Res +5%
Rank D spells (+ Shine)				Skl +5%	Spd -5%		Def -5%	Res +5%
Long-ranged spells	HP -5%	Str -5%	Mag +5%			Lck +5%
Rank A spells		Str -5%	Mag +5%		Spd +5%	Lck -5%
Rank S spells		Str -5%	Mag +5%				Def -5%	Res +5%

...Thats not nice, Es nor Ds provide +Mag or +Spd, the two stats you'd want for a mage. Looks like using E tomes over D when possible is slightly better for Spd gain. Chipping with Ds will is better than killing if you want/must use one, because how much your growths are affected depends on EXP gained, and a chip gives less EXP than a kill.

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

In fact... is the term “beorc” pre-existing? If Ike didn't know about the word “beorc” until the laguz told him... how commonly known is it? Did the laguz in fact invent it? Were the terms originally “humans and laguz”, not “beorc and laguz”?

"Laguz" and "Beorc" are terms directly stated to have been invented by the Goddess of Dawn herself in RD. It was part of her "please stop fighting!" effort when they gradually arose, it ended up being kind of a wash.

The Empire of Begnion chose to transition out of the term "Beorc" to "human" circa B.Y. 160. Thats 229 years after the "Dark God" was defeated. Not stated why they changed terms, other than the implication it's b/c racism.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Interdimensional Observer

[Alastor15243]

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

They had a solution they didn't take advantage of you know. All they had to do is go to the very, very, very, very depths of the monastery and activate the ancient ruins down there. That'd set Garreg Mach to mach speed, because the activated ruins would enable the entire complex above to fly. You don't ever leave the school, because it brings you everywhere.😀

Final Fantasy VIII had one good idea at a minimum.

Not even joking, I would have TOTALLY dug making Garreg Mach a mobile flying fortress.

 

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Catgirls wearing collars says less textile culture and more "anime fanservice- they can be your pet" to me.😛 

I am very, very worried that that is the reason for that design decision.

17 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's true of religion as well IRL. I read that that one Pope took issue with the Republic of Venice allowing Byzantine and Muslim envoys to practice their faiths in their embassies. Venice defended its choice, on the grounds it relied on international trade for its economic existence, upsetting its trading partners with a diplomatic slight when they aren't already at war (which they sometimes were) wouldn't be good for that. 

I'm glad I kept that paragraph in, then, because that's fascinating to hear! I was tempted to omit it due to feeling like I was getting sidetracked, but I ultimately decided it was relevant enough to keep in.

 

...Also... Ashunera's efforts "ended up being kind of a wash"...

...Why do you do this, you horrible, horrible clever bastard?

Edited June 20, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Shadow Mir]

22 hours ago, Jotari said:

Fair fucks to Petrine for standing up to Greil when she has weapon triangle disadvantage over him. Unless the flame lance ignores the weapon triangle because it's magic.

It goes by the trinity of magic.

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Honestly, the ridiculous weight of the hammer kind of defeats its purpose. You can't double with it, often even against knights, the people it's supposed to be used on.

Same for the armorslayer, except because it's a sword, you have WTD on them. Yay.

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

“I mean, my brothers are used to my cooking, and Soren hates everything. I think he'd stop eating if he could...”

Never before have I heard a statement so ridiculous that nevertheless feels so correct.

Awww, poor Mist. Apparently she sucks at cooking. Or at least she did. She's gotten better apparently.

Knowing that Mist is a spirit in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, that makes her spirit effect (start with curry breath) make more sense.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Shadow Mir

[Boomhauer007]

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...It does beg the question of why he's the only one not good at speaking beorc language though. Like, I'm pretty damned sure that the heron language is the only laguz language we ever even see anyone speak, and with the exception of Leanne, everyone else we run into, from the random Gallian peasant who thinks you can hide from a beorc by playing dead, to even the frankly idiotic and book-dumb Skrimir, is more fluent in “beorc” than Mordecai is.

 I'm pretty confident that somebody (possibly Mordecai) says at some point that the beast tribe communicate with each other through what is essentially grunts and roars.

I'll even give Skimir a pass here since they probably made him learn it since they're training him as the future king. He's shown to be stubborn, but not with Caenighis (sp) around. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Boomhauer007

[Jotari]

You know I'm just going to throw it out there, but maybe collars are considered fashionable in Gallia because BDSM has become rather popular in recent years.

I wouldnt be selling too much stuff yet. Path of Radiance is well known for being very, very generous with its funds. Second only to the first game with how much free money it provides. This wasn't the case in the Japanese version where things are more expensive though. Yet another weird localisation decision for this one.

 

[Koops]

Oh you're definitely right on Earth affinity being bonkers in this game. In fact, supporting Oscar with Tanith AND Ike makes him almost completely unhittable. I completed an FE9 ironman recently and within both Ike and Tanith's ranges, Ashnard had exactly 0. ZERO hit against Oscar in the first phase. That was the easiest Ashnard fight I ever did that's for sure.

Anyway it's nice to see you enjoying this game considerably more than the previous ones. Path of Radiance truly is a great game.

[Alastor15243]

8 hours ago, Koops said:

Anyway it's nice to see you enjoying this game considerably more than the previous ones. Path of Radiance truly is a great game.

Yeah. While I've got some nitpicks and questions about the worldbuilding and a couple of lines here and there, honestly I'm fairly confident this game is going to top writing for the entire marathon, and the gameplay's pretty fun so far too.

[Jotari]

9 hours ago, Koops said:

Oh you're definitely right on Earth affinity being bonkers in this game. In fact, supporting Oscar with Tanith AND Ike makes him almost completely unhittable. I completed an FE9 ironman recently and within both Ike and Tanith's ranges, Ashnard had exactly 0. ZERO hit against Oscar in the first phase. That was the easiest Ashnard fight I ever did that's for sure.

Anyway it's nice to see you enjoying this game considerably more than the previous ones. Path of Radiance truly is a great game.

Pity Oscar still couldn't damage him though.

[Eltosian Kadath]

I sure missed a lot while I was away, so much that I think I will hide my comments on Alastor's content away in spoiler box to make it smaller

Spoiler

 

On 6/15/2020 at 8:37 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

The game it seems everyone loves, but no one has played.

I guess I am one of the lucky ones for getting it when it was new, although I have heard GC emulation of this game is really reliable at this point (although Radiant Dawn still has a couple of well known issues).

 

On 6/15/2020 at 8:37 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Also, it's cool they made training weapons for this one chapter, knowing they'd never be used again. Just to make it a touch more realistic.

Also of note, the training weapons remove the ability to crit, meaning you don't have to worry about a lucky/unlucky crit changing the outcome of the tutorial.

 

On 6/15/2020 at 2:17 PM, Alastor15243 said:

But when it comes to 3D stuff, to animations, interface, etc... this game feels kind of less competently put together than its GameCube peers, I feel, compared to the GBA games and their GBA peers.

Yeah that was one thing that I found particularity noticeable when it was new; the GBA games had good graphics for GBA games, while the graphics of Path of Radiance were a bit underwhelming compared to other GC games.

 

On 6/15/2020 at 2:17 PM, Alastor15243 said:

One thing that I take issue with about this game's map music is that... it's a bit too quiet.

You can probably fix that in the options menus, but than again having to fix the games sound mixing issues yourself is a bit inconvenient...

 

On 6/15/2020 at 2:17 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

I checked out the script for this game once out of random curiosity, and Hoooooly fuck, does this game go the extra fucking mile to make sure that all of the Greil Mercenaries get story involvement, particularly in the early game, despite the fact that damned near every last one of them can permanently die. The amount of alternate versions of some scenes you can get depending on which characters are dead and which are alive is simply staggering. I have never seen that in a Fire Emblem game before. Shit, I don't know if I've seen it since.

The only thing comparable that comes to mind is the many branched ending of Genealogy of the Holy war with this massive chain of who is the son of whom, and who is alive to inherit what, and who married who...etc. If you want to look at all the differences (albeit in an older translation): http://acenoctali.free.fr/f-fe4/texte_fin_FE4.htm

 

On 6/16/2020 at 1:20 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Enemies also run away to heal in this game. I remember that now. They'll even trade vulneraries, similar to in Thracia.

Healing AI can lead to some rather dumb moments like this. Its a bit early for this, but in the RD it can lead to generic enemies stealing your characters healing items in the chapters where some of your controllable cast are enemies, which is obnoxious.

 

On 6/16/2020 at 1:20 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Interestingly, in this game and Radiant Dawn, weapon weight resistance is dependent on strength, not constitution, and I always felt that made way more sense as a kid. If you're super strong, why should that not be enough to wield heavy weapons without issue?

But it also means that since enemy damage is currently really low, we have 5 strength fighters who are weighed down by their 10 weight iron axes and can be doubled by Boyd with ease.

I have always found this rather irritating, as it made strength even better than it was before, and it was one of the best stats already.

 

On 6/16/2020 at 1:21 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Oh, and by the way, if you're doing this, never, ever, ever train Sothe to level 20 unless you're giving him bonus exp at the base to rig perfect level ups. He doesn't get capping bonuses, he just transfers his stats directly from PoR to RD. Given his growth-rate-doubling skill, blossom, that sounds like it would be awesome, but there are two problems:

1: His average level 20 stats with blossom in Path of Radiance are universally lower than his Radiant Dawn bases with the exception of a single point lead in luck, and...

2: If you get him to level 20, the transfer stats override his normal stats even if they are worse.

Point 1 is only accurate in fixed mode, in normal mode Blossom makes his averages slightly better than his Radiant Dawn bases

(HP 35.96; STR 20; MAG 4.61; SKL 20;SPD 20; LUCK 20.1525; DEF 14.9725;RES 9.69) Sothe averages w/ Blossom on Normal Mode

(HP 35     ; STR 18; MAG 4      ; SKL 20; SPD 20; LUCK 15          ; DEF 14          ; RES 9    ) Sothe's RD bases

 

On 6/16/2020 at 1:21 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Here's something that's bugged me for ages about hand axes though: why are they heavier than axes not intended to be thrown? Do they need that extra weight to have a strong impact after being thrown, and/or to fly straight? Whatever. The concept of axes that can fly like boomerangs better than actual real-life boomerangs is already kind of ridiculous, so fine.

I always interpreted weight as not entirely literal, also encompassing how slowly it takes to attack with certain weapons, like magic's weight not literally being the weight of the book, but how long it takes to cast the spell, or in this case that you have a lot longer wind-up and follow-through to throw a weapon as opposed to simply swinging with it (or the awkwardness imposed by the difference in balance for a throwable weapon than simple melee weapon, when it is used in melee).

 

On 6/17/2020 at 9:29 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Oooh! That's interesting! The distance between the Crimean royal capital and the Greil Mercenaries base was apparently a 3 day trip for Soren. We have an actual time frame for how long a particular journey takes.

Depending on how much gear Soren is carrying, and how physically fit he is, and how hard he is pushing his body that puts it anywhere from 55-90 miles, personally I think 60 seems reasonable for him if he is carrying his own gear and going at a comfortable pace.

 

On 6/17/2020 at 9:29 AM, Alastor15243 said:

 

And also, apparently enough of Crimea's army is stationed in immediate, within-the-hour access of the capital that this ambush still gave them time to mount some kind of resistance.

If their forces are mostly mounted knights, they might be able to push their horses to get 10-15 miles in that hour, although that would be pushing their horses to the point of requiring a rest after such strain.

 

On 6/18/2020 at 1:28 PM, Alastor15243 said:

I thought that Greil was a Daein commoner who got his position as one of the Four Riders in a similar way. Isn't Greil of common birth?

He was one of the most important Generals in Daein, rarely does one reach that high from common birth, and even if they did, like Mycen they would be given a title with such a position, making Ike secretly a noble just like Alm (although not as important a noble as Alm)

 

On 6/19/2020 at 1:41 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Now... having only seven guys to defend three entrances, when only one can truly tank and the others can just kind of take a hit... means I'm a bit scared here. And I can't even imagine what this map would be like if I had lost even one of these guys earlier. Probably hell. Which is a shame. As manageable as I've found the game so far, this is still a mark against the game's ironmannability, at least in the early game. We'll be getting more members very, very soon, but still.

Its not as bad as it seems as long as you have Titania. She can fairly easily wipe out the south in like 2-3 turns as long as you give her all the effective Axes, and Ike can hold one of the choke-points fairly easily on his own as long as he has a few Vulneraries (or Rhys). That just leaves one point to hold, which you should be able to manage with a lose or two.

 

On 6/19/2020 at 1:41 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

Alright, so, the enemy build-up is way too much to recruit Ilyana now, so I have to give Titania a melee weapon, make sure the ranged space in front of her is clear, and then hope Ilyana doesn't attack Titania in melee anyway.

OH THANK GOD.

I assumed since every enemy had melee weapons except Ilyana, then Ilyana wouldn't be forced to attack in melee because no enemy would take up the one 2-range spot instead of attacking Titania and dying. But it turns out I forgot that there was a soldier who couldn't reach Titania, and who would land exactly on that space. Thankfully, miraculously, a knight came in and attacked Titania in melee and survived, robbing Ilyana of the chance to off herself.

I am fairly certain Ilyana doesn't actually attack you on this map, so you don't need to worry about her suiciding on your army.

 

On 6/19/2020 at 1:41 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

I get that he's the mage associated with wind more than the others due to his weapon rank, but we haven't been able to get new wind magic for a while. Fire is the magic he's way more likely to have access to if he ran out of one type. I personally would've had him use fire to show off his tactical knowledge and his desire to kill Mordecai in that moment.

You can sneakily get more Wind Magic if you want by forging a Wind Tome without changing its stats in any way to keep its base price the same.

 

On 6/19/2020 at 1:41 PM, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Apparently there was no bonus experience for this chapter. Curious.

But anyway... that's it for today.

Stay safe, everyone.

You get bonus experience for lowmanning that chapter, getting BEXP for each deployment slot you leave empty (I have found lowmanning it by one is trivial to accomplish, and by two is still accomplisnable tried lowmanning any more than that)

 

 

On 6/15/2020 at 3:33 PM, Icelerate said:

Do you think Ike is more popular because of surface level character traits or in depth character traits? I think he's more popular for surface level character traits. 

I think that depends on the Ike, in Path of Radiance they do a good job showing depth of character, with moments of growth, and a compelling arc, but in Radiant Dawn, they just drop the ball with Ike. The Ike of Radiant Dawn is just a shallow reference of his older version, going through the motions of an arc he already completed, given preference thanks to the memory of his better days.

 

On 6/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, Jotari said:

I actually think Shadow Dragon was on to something with having Gaidens open when people die only they decided to go...immensely stupid about it, by making it a general death count number instead of being plot relevant specific units like the Nagi Gaiden.

This would be a really interesting idea, and I kinda hope they head in this direction with some future entries.

 

On 6/18/2020 at 8:40 AM, Jotari said:

Goes to great lengths to tell us. I don't think they ever once actually show us a laguz hating a branded. The closest if Vika getting the hibjeebees without knowing why around Miaciah.

 

Mordecai and Stefan have a support conversation in Path of Radiance that talks about it as well, but I suppose that is just more telling than it is showing.

 

On 6/18/2020 at 2:54 PM, Interdimensional Observer said:

Some "horticulture" might exist, as in the tending of wild plants and minor planting, but not true plow-seed-and-water intensive agriculture associated with the usual rise of human civilization. Apparently, the North American Pacific Northwest region was so rich in natural resources, that the Native Americans/First Nations there could thrive as developed and settled societies without turning to farming. Farming had been invented in Mesoamerica and did spread up the Atlantic coast, but the Pacific coast did not feel the need/pressure to adopt it. They still had all the basics of craftsmanship- pottery, textiles, stone tools, huts, canoes, some cool totem poles. Could Gallia be a slightly warmer version of Native American Washington/British Columbia?

Plow-seed-and-water intensive agriculture was never really a thing in North America, as it requires larger domesticatable animals to pull said plow, that they just didn't have. The European settlers rarely recognized the agricultural practices native to the Americas as agriculture, with a higher reliance on innovations in fertilizer, and a style of plant arrangement that involved planting crops with synergistic impacts on the soil next to each other (it accomplished the same goals of crop rotation of keeping the soil fertile, but involved yields of multiple crops instead of focusing on a single crop per harvest), or using controlled burns to cultivate plants that use fire in their life-cycle like oaks for their acorns. The Europeans settlers frequently misinterpreted these techniques as tending to wild plants, as it wasn't in the neat rows of the same crops they come to expect from plow based farming. You have touched on a topic there in which anthropological theories are shifting as the divergent path agriculture took in the America is being recognized more and more.

 

[Alastor15243]

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I think that depends on the Ike, in Path of Radiance they do a good job showing depth of character, with moments of growth, and a compelling arc, but in Radiant Dawn, they just drop the ball with Ike. The Ike of Radiant Dawn is just a shallow reference of his older version, going through the motions of an arc he already completed, given preference thanks to the memory of his better days.

I'm gonna keep an eye out for that. I'm gonna have to see if I can work out for myself if it's flanderization or just the result of having a character who's completed his character arc and has little room remaining to grow.

 

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I guess I am one of the lucky ones for getting it when it was new, although I have heard GC emulation of this game is really reliable at this point (although Radiant Dawn still has a couple of well known issues).

Glad I never lost my Radiant Dawn copy then! I actually had my copy of this game for a while, but a little before I decided I wanted to buy a new wii to replace my broken one (after realizing "Wait, I"m a grown man with a job and an Amazon account, I can get a new Wii whenever I want"), I just couldn't find it again.

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Point 1 is only accurate in fixed mode, in normal mode Blossom makes his averages slightly better than his Radiant Dawn bases

(HP 35.96; STR 20; MAG 4.61; SKL 20;SPD 20; LUCK 20.1525; DEF 14.9725;RES 9.69) Sothe averages w/ Blossom on Normal Mode

(HP 35     ; STR 18; MAG 4      ; SKL 20; SPD 20; LUCK 15          ; DEF 14          ; RES 9    ) Sothe's RD bases

Are you sure? I thought fixed mode just reduced the growth point requirement from 100 to 90, and it really looks like this page is using the "re-roll failures" calculation, given all the weird percentages:

https://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/average-stats/sothe/

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

I always interpreted weight as not entirely literal, also encompassing how slowly it takes to attack with certain weapons, like magic's weight not literally being the weight of the book, but how long it takes to cast the spell, or in this case that you have a lot longer wind-up and follow-through to throw a weapon as opposed to simply swinging with it (or the awkwardness imposed by the difference in balance for a throwable weapon than simple melee weapon, when it is used in melee).

Well, con and strength still make it less awkward, so I don't find that to make much sense.

9 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Depending on how much gear Soren is carrying, and how physically fit he is, and how hard he is pushing his body that puts it anywhere from 55-90 miles, personally I think 60 seems reasonable for him if he is carrying his own gear and going at a comfortable pace.

Hmmm... Now that's interesting... if we accept that figure, then that would give Crimea a really, really rough area of 120x60 miles, or 7200 square miles. Which would make Crimea a little smaller than Israel. Using the larger figure, 180x90, it's 16200 square miles, roughly the size of the Netherlands. Meaning Tellius is a very small continent.

...Wow, guess there really wasn't much left after the flood.

Edited June 21, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'm gonna keep an eye out for that. I'm gonna have to see if I can work out for myself if it's flanderization or just the result of having a character who's completed his character arc and has little room remaining to grow.

 

Glad I never lost my Radiant Dawn copy then! I actually had my copy of this game for a while, but a little before I decided I wanted to buy a new wii to replace my broken one (after realizing "Wait, I"m a grown man with a job and an Amazon account, I can get a new Wii whenever I want"), I just couldn't find it again.

Are you sure? I thought fixed mode just reduced the growth point requirement from 100 to 90, and it really looks like this page is using the "re-roll failures" calculation, given all the weird percentages:

https://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/average-stats/sothe/

Well, con and strength still make it less awkward, so I don't find that to make much sense.

Hmmm... Now that's interesting... if we accept that figure, then that would give Crimea a really, really rough area of 120x60 miles, or 7200 square miles. Which would make Crimea a little smaller than Israel. Using the larger figure, 180x90, it's 16200 square miles, roughly the size of the Netherlands. Meaning Tellius is a very small continent.

...Wow, guess there really wasn't much left after the flood.

I've done some statistics to figure out the size of some Fire Emblem continents using some very loose measurements. I came to Valentia being the size of France, Archanea being the size Ukraine and Magvel being on par with India. And  Fodlan being hilariously tiny considering you can travel to any point of it in a weekend. Tellius was to be the next one up on my route but I was going to take the sea route to Begnion as the marker for size. I think the war and travel time included the game takes place over the course of a year with the change of seasons being displayed and a late game reference to the anniversary of Greil's death, so logically it shouldn't be that big to fit the armed conflict into the allotted time.

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Are you sure? I thought fixed mode just reduced the growth point requirement from 100 to 90, and it really looks like this page is using the "re-roll failures" calculation, given all the weird percentages:

https://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/average-stats/sothe/

Yes I am sure, and if you compare those averages to the way they display Sothe's growth rates

https://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/growth-rates/

it becomes obvious they were using the technique they used to estimate the effective growth rate for Blossom in fixed mode, instead of the normal mode version of Blossom's effective growth rates for Sothe.

 

 

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Yes I am sure, and if you compare those averages to the way they display Sothe's growth rates

https://serenesforest.net/path-of-radiance/characters/growth-rates/

it becomes obvious they were using the technique they used to estimate the effective growth rate for Blossom in fixed mode, instead of the normal mode version of Blossom's effective growth rates for Sothe.

 

 

Huh. Weird. I don't get why they nerfed the skill that much in fixed mode either way, but thanks for the correction. Wish I could go back and edit that post, but it sadly got too big to be allowed to edit it after posting.

[Alastor15243]

Okay, wow. Sorry for the huge delay with releasing this part, but... yeah, I just wind up having more and more to say, and the maps I guess are getting longer to complete. Here's the pre-battle segment. I'm proofreading the post-battle segment now and will post it shortly. Again, I'm splitting it in half so that the post doesn't get too large to go back and edit later:

 

Path of Radiance Day 6: Chapter 9

Alright, so, this is the first chapter where we get the “results” report from Soren. It reminds me that I got 0 bonus exp last chapter, and honestly, I wish the game would actually tell you what the conditions for getting bonus exp are, before the battle. That would add another dimension of strategy that I don't see the game gaining anything by removing.

But anyway... this is also the chapter where laguz get introduced to gameplay, though they're not under our control just yet. Honestly, while most of them were massively nerfed in Radiant Dawn, I'm gonna make an honest effort to use some here, to see how good they are, because they always seemed like a lot of fun, but I just... never used them.

In fact, one thing I'd be tempted to do here is save a backup file so that later I can start an all-the-laguz playthrough where I have to deploy every laguz I have before I can fit anyone else in there. The game's laguz cast is remarkably small compared to the beorc cast, and you can field them all while still having room left over to deploy a few beorc.

But for those of you who don't know, laguz's gameplay deal is that they can transform into animals in battle, but they have a transformation gauge that builds up while they're in human form until it peaks and they transform, and goes down when in animal form until it bottoms out and they revert. They gain slight stat bonuses in animal form, but the main reason why animal form is better is because laguz can't attack in human form. In the sequel they made a bunch of changes that were pretty great (they can counter-attack with kicks and punches, they can transform any time they have a full gauge instead of being forced to automatically, and can revert early to start saving up for a new transformation more easily if there's a lull in combat)... but then there's one change that completely sinks them if they aren't royalty or a heron: their stats in animal form just get doubled. That sounds awesome, but keep in mind their growths aren't as high as beorc units to compensate, so in practice this means that their human stats are halved. So they're just sitting ducks in human form, and this only gets worse the further into the game you get.

Anyway, on with the base preps.

Hey, Eltosian, remember when you said how far Soren could travel in 3 days depended on how much gear Soren was carrying? Well apparently Soren travels light. Ike comments on it, using those exact words, “travel light”, while describing his gear as basically “only a few robes and musty books”. Then again, I guess in this case he's counting on someone other than himself to carry the food, so...

...Okay, when Ike mentions “sitting here in the morning, in the sunlight”... it makes me notice that all the moss from when it was raining is completely gone. What the fuck was going on there? By candlelight and sunlight, no moss, but add a bit of rain, and suddenly there's green all over the walls that vanishes just as quickly?

Utterly bizarre.

So, so far, these conversations seem to involve people... kinda recovering from the utter travesty that the last 24 hours had been. Both Ike and Mist mentioned seeing the sunlight and realizing “I'm alive” and starting to feel a little better about their situation and appreciating what they still have.

...I like this conversaion with Oscar, and yet I can't really think of much of substance to comment on about it. I guess I'll leave it be then.

This conversation with Mia though... what's this about Greil telling Mia she has a debt to repay to him? Ike mentions it, but we heard nothing of the sort before now. Everything about that recruitment conversation suggested she joined of her own free will. But now we've got this implication that Greil pressured her into feeling she has a life debt or something. That's... annoying.

So, like Boomhauer said, this info talk with Mordecai confirms that Laguz normally speak with “gestures and with... how do you say... growls?”

...Which... I don't even know how to begin unpacking the implications of that.

Like... okay... anyone here seen Gargoyles? That awesome Disney show from the 90s? There's this thing where gargoyle culture didn't believe in naming people. Like, they just didn't feel the need to, and scoffed at the humans' obsession with naming everything.

“Must you humans name everything?” quoth Hudson, moments before he took on that name as a result of getting BTFO'd by Elisa Maza in this argument. “Nothing's real to you 'til you've named it! Given it limits!”

Now, as I said, they wind up naming themselves in the first few episodes (named after parts of New York they saw), but like... the fuck did they function as a people all that time without naming people? How the hell do you discuss anyone in the third person? Any attempt at identifying somebody beyond “Me” and “You” would completely crash and burn. It just doesn't make any sense how gargoyle culture could possibly have existed for any period of time without realizing they need to name things if they're going to have language. Not just that they didn't come up with the idea on their own, but that they heard of it, and actively ridiculed its use.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up, is that, I, uh... have similar issues with this concept. Now, I get where they were going with this. Obviously human methods of communication don't work when you've transformed into an animal. Clearly they must have simpler methods of communicating in that form.

But all the fucking time?

Three questions, setting aside entirely the fact that laguz in gameplay demonstrate the ability to speak the beorc tongue even with an animal's mouth:

First... funny how we mentioned names earlier... am I expected to believe that you can pronounce Mordecai in Growl? Why don't these characters have names like Heerah, or Yau? Stuff you can say with the vowels and consonants you can make with a cat's mouth? No Ts or Ds or Bs or Ps or the like?

Second, how the hell do you, using nothing but growls and gestures, without fingers mind you, convey the complex thoughts these people are clearly capable of having?

THIRD, are the herons parrots or something!? If we're actually not going to hand-wave laguz's ability to communicate in animal form, and if we're going to say they actually are limited in their ability to speak by the mouths they possess half the time... then how can you speak in backwards goddamned Japanese... using a heron beak? And if they can't do that, why is Reyson's singing more powerful when he isn't using the entire written and spoken language they're usually shown singing it in?

This... this makes no goddamned sense.

...No, Ike, that does not “sound convenient”, it sounds outrageously fucking frustrating.

And then Mordecai goes on to say that “our tongue does not let us talk to other tribes”.

“That is not good. That is why we learn these modern words.”

So basically, instead of learning each other's language, they all learned the beorc language. I have to assume this means that the various tribes' languages simply cannot be vocalized without the mouths of their specific animal bodies, further suggesting that the “gestures” they speak of aren't anything as articulate as sign language. Even then though, surely merely understanding the language would be enough, even if you can't speak it, right? If Caineghis knows cat and bird, and Tibarn knows bird and cat, then Caineghis speaking cat and Tibarn speaking bird would be able to understand each other perfectly.

...Of course, as Mordecai is about to explain, there are other uses for knowing the beorc language even if you hate beorc. But even so, just... the idea of them using beorc language to speak with other laguz races feels like it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of the more... shall we say... politically exuberant on this topic.

I mean, think about this. In a few chapters, there is going to be a huge meeting between the rulers of the various laguz tribes, in which they all discuss various subjects, including the ongoing war and what they should do about Crimea and Daein. And in that meeting, every laguz leader present is going to be speaking in the language of the people who enslaved them. And they're going to be speaking in this language because they've all come to the conclusion that their own languages are manifestly inadequate for the task.

Try to imagine for a moment, if you will, what that must feel like. That sounds agonizing. I can't even comprehend a real-world analogue of this kind of situation, and I would be fascinated to hear Tibarn talk about how disgraceful he must have found this in the time before Chapter 17 when he still hates the whole human race with a passion.

...That is, unless the explanation here is that the thing I've been calling “beorc language” is not, in fact, beorc language at all, and that back in the days of the goddess, it was a language spoken by everyone. That would explain their lack of discomfort with using it, but on the other hand... it begs the question of why they stopped using it in the first place.

...And it also begs the question of what the hell the herons are speaking in, because I just remembered that Volug also speaks it in Radiant Dawn, so maybe I'm totally mis-remembering and the language Leanne speaks wasn't actually created by herons at all.

And also, if that is not the case, and the language everyone's speaking actually is a beorc-made language...

...And I suppose it wouldn't remotely be fair to not bring this up, since I'm going to give Petra so much shit for it...

Tibarn.

Ranulf.

Skrimir.

All of them, possibly more, are laguz who are voiced in cutscenes, and none of them speak beorc as their first language. And yet they all speak it in a flawless “beorc” (read: American) accent.

Why the hell would Pre-Chapter-17 Tibarn think it a remotely important or worthwhile goal to learn how to speak with a beorc accent, and why would post-Chapter-17 Tibarn think it important to change his accent to be more like the beorc?

Why is it important to any laguz that they get rid of their laguz accents and talk exactly like the beorc do? They can speak the language. They've gotten all of the use out of it. What on earth would they think they'd be accomplishing by fully altering their style of speech to match that of beorc society?

...Okay. In all honestly, this is a voice direction problem, not a writing one. This is something that presentation is gonna get knocked down for, and is probably just gonna be mixed in with the various memetic shortcomings of those cutscenes.

...And I guess Heroes cementing it in canon by giving everyone, even Leanne, a flawless American accent is... not this game's fault either. Just like I'm not going to mark Radiant Dawn down for saying “Yune” when Heroes has decided that she's called “Yoon” now.

And what's more... I don't think a single laguz character shows up in a single cutscene in this game, so if anything, this is a criticism to level at Radiant Dawn, not Path of Radiance.

Um... oops, I guess?

But it is so frustrating nonetheless. It just takes me out of things entirely when a character's voice makes no sense for their character. Like I've said elsewhere, I was about as taken in by Faye Mata's performance as Petra as I would have been if David Hayter tried to voice a six-year-old girl.

Also, Mordecai says “modern” words, like this language was a relatively recent invention, and before recently the Beorc spoke in a completely different tongue. Either that, or this is supposed to be a joke at Mordecai's expense, like “haha, look at these dumbass cavemen who are just now learning about this new-fangled thing called language”, which... yeah, does not sound like what they're trying to convey.

Of course, Ike doesn't remotely see the problem with only being able to communicate with your friends. Doesn't see why you'd need to speak with anyone else.

...I don't remember finding that comment nearly as dumb when I was a kid.

Thankfully Mordecai sets him straight, saying that often you need to communicate with your potential enemies too in order to avoid fighting, but... wow.

...Basically... like... wow. Okay, so, yet again, I really, really wish we knew more about the laguz societies of the world, because I have so many goddamned questions.

...Fuck it, I can't keep talking about this right now. I'm so confused. I think this is the first time this game's worldbuilding has made be genuinely frustrated. And it's such a shame, because everything else but the Gallia worldbuilding so far has been pretty damned great. And I think I'll have to go a bit further into the game, at least until after we leave Gallia, before I can finally find a way to put to words exactly what bothers and frustrates me about how this game depicts the laguz.

...Let's do Soren and Ike's C support.

Oh yeah, I like this support. It's very short, but I like how it really gets across Ike and Soren's friendship and how well they know each other. Well, I guess it shows more how well Soren knows Ike, but then this whole conversation is about how much of Soren's past Ike doesn't know... and Ike finally learning it.

Oooh! This game actually lets you select “take” to look at what's inside the convoy even when you don't have enough inventory space to take something out! Thank you! That annoyed me so many times in the GBA games!

Anyway, we leave the base, and Titania reveals that not only has she been to Gallia before, but so has Ike. But before she can explain further, an “unknown” voice calls for Ike that Titania immediately says is Mordecai, begging the question of why the voice was marked as “unknown” if it was clearly recognizable to the characters, and thus to the player if this were a voiced game.

I do like how Ike kind of annoyedly ends the conversation, to stopped music, by saying “Well, that was cryptic.”

So, Mordecai asks if Ike's party needs rest, and even though Ike says no, Lethe starts shit-talking about what a weak species humans are again.

I'm frankly amazed that Lethe is Mordecai's superior officer. Everything we've seen of her so far makes it clear that Mordecai has the more level head. But then, this is a society that determines their leaders by who's the strongest, so...

...I mean, in fairness, that's one useful quality that's being vetted for, as opposed to monarchy, in which no useful qualities are vetted for. But then when you get to military positions, and we have no idea how those are selected for, and... yeah, I'd better see some damned good proof that Lethe deserves her position.

Also, when Lethe and Mordecai start arguing, I'm suddenly reminded of the fact that laguz never speak in anything but beorc, even with each other, and even when saying things they don't necessarily want the humans to hear.

...But then they're interrupted by the smell of iron reaching Lethe and Mordecai's noses, and so Daein's ambush is partially thwarted. But I couldn't help but notice that when Kotaff gave the order to move out, there was a pirate among them, wholly separate from the pirates who show up later, deciding to use the commotion to rob the villages.

...Speaking of...

...So like...

...there are just pirates, casually hanging out in Gallian territory, raiding laguz villages.

...Aren't laguz, like... the shittiest piracy targets of all time?

They don't have nearly as much nice stuff to steal, since they're not very materialistic and all... there isn't a single one of them who isn't armed with deadly natural weapons... and, like... isn't Gallian culture heavily strength-focused? It sounds to me like there's no such thing as a “defenseless civilian” to pick on here. Much more effort for much less reward. Do they do it because at least this way... none of their victims... can swim... after... them...?

...Wait a fucking minute...

...Does Gallia not have boats?

...They don't, do they! I mean, an entire plot point is that they need to go back into Daein-occupied Crimea in order to get a ship to Begnion, for a boat ride that passes Gallia along the way!

Unless Caineghis has a perfectly reasonable explanation for why he, the king of Gallia, can't provide Elincia a single boat, or at least docks the boat can meet her at without her having to go back into enemy territory, then... I guess Gallians don't have boats.

Also, Titania goes “Ha! Understood!” when Ike orders her to assemble the group. Was that her being pleasantly surprised at Ike's leadership initiative?

Anyway, Muston and Jorge say they'll take Mist and Rolf and bring them to the rear lines, and... hahahahaha... thank goodness that doesn't work out.

Yeah, I just realized... there was no involvement in this cutscene from any Greil Mercenary who wasn't Ike, Soren or Titania. I think that was just a pre-bases thing to make sure everyone was involved before they could give them bonus dialogue. Shame, but at least the base dialogue makes up for it.

...Also, bandits are described as having “terrible strength”, clearly meaning that as terrifyingly high, but can easily be read the incredibly inaccurate wrong way.

Also, I just noticed that weapons don't say what they're effective against if you go for more info. It's only when you equip them that the symbols show up in the “Effect” box. That's annoying, especially since the flavor text for the regal sword and for magic mentions nothing of their effective properties.

Also, I notice we still aren't at a point where we have to pick and choose who to deploy, despite not having lost anyone, and despite getting two new units on this map. That's definitely reminding me of this game's issue with a low supply of units early-game. It's really going to pick up now, though.

Curiously, the majority of the enemies appear to be on the beach, not guarding the castle, so there's little reason to charge the castle immediately. I think I'll be focusing on the beach to secure those treasures, and if we start getting charged by the castle, we'll split up to face them off before it becomes a major issue.

And of course, since I can't see highlighted ally ranges from the prep menu, I don't know what affect “coast” terrain has on mounted units. Foot units seem to be fine, but I remember this not going so well for mounted units. I guess I'll have to check it out on turn one and adjust my plan from there.

Let's go.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

Chapter 9 Continued

Okay, so yeah, there are some lines here you can kinda sorta interpret as Ike already knowing Mist can heal, but really, it's way easier to read this as being the first Ike's heard about Mist's training as a healer, despite that conversation I mentioned in Chapter 8 where Ike heard about Mist “practicing with her staff”.

And Rolf comes in, and is a really bad liar about who taught him the bow, but he doesn't give away that it's Shinon. Everyone seems more inclined to believe that he's making up the idea that he can even use a bow at all, rather than that he's lying about who taught him.

But basically their childish stubbornness forces the mercenaries into a situation where it would be a better idea for Ike to let them stick around than to waste time making them retreat. So... they win!

And we're all the better for it.

...Not with Rolf, obviously. A level 1 archer would be unacceptable in this game no matter when we got him, but Chapter 9? Fuck right off.

Mist is a different story though. She's going to be getting most of the bonus exp we've gotten so far, because holy shit is she useful.

She has two things going for her that really make it rewarding to get her through this obvious rough spot in her career. First off, she promotes to a valkyrie, meaning that aside from Elincia in the late-game, she's the game's only mounted healer, which is insanely useful in a console game where you can use staves and then canto. Second, she's the only unit who comes in to help Ike against the Black Knight in Chapter 27. She's your only source of healing there besides elixirs and the like, and also, enemies start showing up to attack her, so it's worthwhile to train her so she doesn't get killed there if you stick around to fight him.

She's obviously got some problems, namely starting off at level 1 and relying on nothing but staff exp and bonus exp to gain levels, but I just can't help but train her. If you want to get the good, “canon” ending where Ike triumphs against the Black Knight? You want to train her.

And then we get dialogue at the beginning of turn 2 talking about the “direct” feature, which lets you give simple general orders to yellow “ally” units, and... honestly... I don't get why the games just don't let us control these units directly. In practice these are just green units you can order to stand in a corner so they don't die. Try to have them fight, and they're relying entirely on their stats to not get killed, which can... have some dire consequences.

Anyway, by the looks of things, Titania is the best bet to grab these houses, so I'll be having everyone else focus on fighting the enemies coming from the castle, since they are in fact charging. I could probably manage it with a split of my army, but the mix of melee and ranged units would be annoying to safely navigate quickly with anyone but Titania, so even with her reduced movement, she's my gal.

...Shit, no, he can move one space faster than her! NO!

Hopefully he's moving slower than his full movement range, or I can order Lethe to move in fast enough with her ridiculous 9 mov. Because Titania was just barely in hand axe range this turn, and couldn't one-shot him. She won't be able to attack again.

...Yeah, I lost that village. Damn it. That's what I get for trying to play it needlessly safe. But at least I'll be able to save the other one, due to how he'll have to move out of the way to get to it.

Oh, and Marcia shows up. Forgot about that! Awesome, though... ugh. I just do not like pegasus knights. Units intended to go out to areas where other units can't follow them... and aren't built to last, or to fight enemies on their own.

Also, I think this house has some important (and amusing) dialogue, so I'll have to look it up afterwards.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yeah, I know they explain later that she's got more reason to join us, but this conversation about her just casually deciding to ditch the royal Begnion pegasus knights to join a group of mercnaries just to pay back a favor she owes to Ike is pretty hilarious, especially Ike's “uh... you do realize we're destitute, right?” dialogue.

Anyway, the pirates show up, and I'm starting to get really worried about that last village, especially since a swordfighter Titania can't double showed up right in front of her, impeding her path... and she missed the counerattack. Thankfully I sent Boyd and Mia to help Titania out, along with Lethe, but... we'll have to see.

Also, apparently Caineghis's got a bounty on these pirates' heads, and they suspect that's why the humans are there. So they're a known problem that nobody's been able to solve so far.

THANK GOODNESS. Lethe killed the pirate just before untransforming. The second house is just barely saved.

Alright, so, this has actually taught me that when we're dealing with early-game Laguz, who are absurdly powerful for this point in the game, there's actually a lot of useful stuff you can do with “directions”, but really, I don't see the benefit to gameplay of just being able to direct them. Surely getting these guys as “temporary units” would be better, unless this is supposed to be a deliberate handicap to keep them from basically just being a second Titania? That hardly makes sense, since you get them next level...

Also, I've been intentionally leaving people injured so that Mist can get as much exp as possible by doing all of the healing. And I make sure to prioritize attacking with unwounded units so that I can get as many people in need of healing as possible.

...This unfortunately resulted in me forgetting to heal Marcia, forcing me to back out of what would have been an extremely clutch player-phase rout of two knights and an archer with my main force. Alas. Well, nobody will die, so I'm glad I at least caught her low health in time to fix it.

Also, I forgot that being able to click on your leader to give yellow units orders even after said unit has moved was a feature added in the sequel. Pity.

“Scallywags of the sea are we... an end like this is quite... worthy”...

Ah yes.

And so, far earlier than I expected, in the lyrics of a dumb, innocuous little pirate sea shanty we never hear the melody to, or even learn if it has a melody or is just a rhyming chant, we encounter the first instance of a pet peeve of mine that plagues basically every single game in this franchise that has localized lyrics.

Accent on the wrong syllable.

Deliberately mispronouncing words in a clumsy and lazy attempt to cram a square lyric in to a round meter.

Pronouncing worthy as worthy.

Pronouncing waters as waters.

Pronouncing double as “da bull”.

And pronouncing “knowing time betrays” as "no wing, time bee trays”.

I... hate this. I've given up hope that anyone at Nintendo will give enough of a shit to stop doing it to every single goddamned song in the franchise, but I still hate it every time it happens. As far as I'm concerned, nobody who speaks fluent English has any business being this outrageously lazy when constructing lyrics. There is a magic to properly-constructed lyrics and lyrical flow that is completely lost when you stop giving a shit about this, and every single song that has ever succumbed to the temptation is lesser for it. Even songs I otherwise love.

As far as I can tell, there isn't a single goddamned song in the entire franchise whose English version doesn't do this at least once. The closest was “Heritors of Arcadia” from Shadows of Valentia, but even then, they slightly fucked it up by putting the emphasis on the “The” in “The seasons turn”, which is frustrating, because they did it right after the much better-sounding “The seasons, they turn”.

...Mark my words, I will be bringing this up again when Fates comes around. But for now, my rant on this is over.

Moving on.

After heading back from some errands and nearly having a heart attack when my TV screen wouldn't come back from black after selecting “gamecube game” on my wii, a simple power down and resume got it working. But when shit like that happens... it always shakes your faith in a device. Makes you scared it's gonna happen again. And again. More frequently, until it's just something you have to live with or else get a new system... or a new game that's probably more expensive than the system at this point.

At least it didn't crash while I was playing or anything, but still.

Awww, and Oscar and Rolf have a cute little brother conversation.

It's kind of annoying that the “move faster around the map” button is the same as the “cancel all highlighted ranges” button.

So I get the one village, and at least I get a stat booster, even if it's a talisman. The laguz there is rather friendly, compared to the other one, who I'll read the script for in a moment. Anyway, he mentions that the enemies have taken Fort Tatana, which really lets that sink in... these remnants of a Daein force intended to capture a princess guarded by a single band of mercenaries... were able to take over a fort. Was this fort unoccupied, or did they actually manage to rout the laguz inhabitants, who were presumably part of the Gallian military? Given that Lethe and Mordecai don't express much horror at the idea that it's been taken... am I to assume it's the former?

But moving on, quick observation:

When a unit on the shore fights a unit in the water, the fighting cinematic takes place in the water. But when a unit in the water fights a unit on the shore, the fighting cinematic takes place on the shore. Makes sense. The attacker is moving onto the enemy's turf. Though that does remind me how weird it is that the attacker still gets the terrain bonuses of the terrain they just left, but... yeah, that's just one of a dozen issues with scale that this game series has never fully managed to solve.

But on to that village conversation I missed, but remember well:

...Yyyyep. It's the peasant catgirl who sees you, and then not only thinks she can get you to go away by playing dead, but actually tells you to go away because she's playing dead when you don't immediately do so, like this is some kind of cartoon where you splash a witch with a bucket of water and then get annoyed at her for being so rudely un-punctual about melting. And I quote:

Female Cat Laguz: Eeeek! Hu-hu-humans! Yaaaaah!

Visitor: Um...

Female Cat Laguz: Urk! Urk! Ahhh... Oh, come on! You are so rude! If you can't tell, I'm playing dead. So go away! Huh? Why? Because my mother told me “If you ever meet a beorc, play dead, and it will leave you be.” It's not true, is it? Hsss! I knew it wasn't true! I knew it! Well then, take this, and get out of here! Quickly! I HATE humans! I don't want to talk to you! Hsss! SHOO!!

This is... I mean, this is funny and cute, if you just think about it as classic catgirl antics, because she really plays the role of the wacky, fussy-and-constantly-annoyed-but-not-all-that-bright catgirl to the hilt, but like... two things...

1: Just a reminder: this peasant girl at least partially believed comically ignorant rumors about beorc behavior, and yet speaks fluent fucking beorc. In fairness, Mordecai's beorc is far better than I remember it being, but still, he has more hiccups and weird word choices than this clearly ignorant peasant cat laguz does. To give out an idea of how fucking bizarre this is, imagine the stereotypical antisemitic hick encountering a Jewish man and expressing flabbergasted shock at his lack of horns... while speaking to this Jewish man in perfect Hebrew.

2: I dunno... something about why we're supposed to find this funny feels... off. I don't think I've sufficiently gathered my thoughts to explain why though. I'm going to have to play more of the game.

Anyway, though, time to finish this. The last wave of enemies has just emerged from the fort.

Awww, and Rolf has a cute line with Boyd too. Man, the writing here is really endearing. Even if I keep getting more and more issues with worldbuilding that I didn't notice before, I think this game still has a great chance of being the new best in writing.

I've been feeding Marcia kills whenever I can, because it would be great to have more than one flier, but the sheer difficulty of feeding her kills isn't saying much positive about her future prospects.

Rolf does more reliable chip damage than her.

Alright, the boss is down.

And Ike, Titania and Soren ease at least some of my concerns about Daein's presence here by suggesting that their plan is to eventually invade Gallia anyway, hence they probably brought more forces than necessary to merely capture Elincia (or more forces than they would have thought were necessary, at least).

...And the disturbing possibility comes up that Daein may be attempting to incite a race war, and to get Begnion on their side as a result. The characters are all understandably alarmed by this, but Lethe and Mordecai don't see much point in worrying about a war that hasn't happened yet.

Wow. That is a fascinating visual they show to set the scene of Castle Gallia. The castle is barely poking out from an ocean of trees.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ike's reaction to seeing the king of all cat laguz is to go “Um... hey there.”

Wow. Classic Ike. I love it.

So yes, we finally meet face to face with King Caineghis, the guy whose name you apparently can't say on YouTube or else you get demonetized.

I'm kind of curious what Giffca's specific role is. He's introduced as Caineghis's “shadow”, and that you should “pay him no more heed than you would the air”. So what exactly does he do? Is he a bodyguard slash secretary, constantly in the background wherever Caineghis goes?

But also, I like Caineghis's theme. Not sure how to describe why, but... just putting that out there.

Not sure how I feel about Caineghis practically outright calling the Crimean royal family, Greil, and Titania “credits to their race”, and Titania thanking him for that, but... moving on.

Okay, so both Mist and Ike were born in Gallia, and only stayed there “a short time”.

...Said “short time” must have been at least two years, if the 17 year old Ike and the 15 year old Mist were both born in Gallia.

...Okay, so “over ten years ago” is when Greil chose to leave Gallia. That puts the time they spent in Gallia somewhere between two to seven years, depending on how much “over” ten years ago it was.

And then...

...That's... odd. Okay, so Caineghis was too late to save Greil, and decided to not interfere in his final moments and only intervened when the Black Knight started threatening Ike and Mist. But the way he phrases it... it sounds like he was hoping that by not interfering, by remaining hidden, Greil would confide something in Ike that Ike would then be willing to tell Caineghis, but which Greil wouldn't have been willing to tell Caineghis directly, which seems... kinda dickish.

But he is nice enough to guarantee a home in Gallia for anyone in Ike's company who wants it. But Ike, of course, refuses, because he's sworn to himself that he's going to bring the Black Knight to justice one day, and he plans to train to get stronger until the day arrives when he can actually do that. Titania is initially alarmed, until Ike clarifies he knows he can't do it right now. So, now that Ike's made clear he has no plans of retiring and living in peace, Caineghis asks Ike to aid Elincia.

...Yep, this is where he clarifies that the alliance between Gallia and Crimea is in reality only respected by the royal families.

Ah yes, and here we are informed of the cover-story of why Crimea was targeted by Daein. For being “sub-human lovers”. This isn't true, but it is what the citizens of Daein seem to think, and... I mean, it's way, way more believable than the “motivations” of the people of Grado. Especially with the racist propaganda Jill says she grew up with.

Alright, so Caineghis says he can't shelter Elincia in Gallia because “elder statesmen would protest”.

How exactly are these “elder statesmen” awarded their positions? Is it also based on fighting prowess? Do we hold a tournament every few years and give the crown to the winner and positions of nobility to all of the runners-up? Why are they called “elder” if that implies oldness, which doesn't really go hand in hand with the strength we're told they elect at least some positions with?

Also, exactly how much power do these “elder statesmen” have to override him? What kind of government are we talking here? Because I have to assume there's a reason more important than “It would damage my reputation among my dinner party regulars” why Caineghis is doing so little to help the daughter of one of his good friends that he forged an alliance with.

But more importantly, let's see if Caineghis explains that this is why he can't even provide Elincia a ship.

...Nobody says anything about why they need to go to Crimea yet, so it looks like that's something I'll have to wait for tomorrow to learn. But the thing is... like... the only issue seems to be in providing Elincia safe harbor here, or to going to war for her. I know Caineghis was at least able to pay Ike 20,000 gold to hire him to help Elincia, so it's not like he can't spare any resources for them. If she can't stay here, well... okay, two things:

1: What exactly was the plan if Ike took Caineghis up on his offer to stay in Gallia? Where was Caineghis going to send Elincia if Ike wouldn't go on this mission and Gallia wouldn't let Elincia stay?

2: While this would explain why Elincia can't wait in Gallia for a few weeks for Nasir's ship to arrive in a Gallian harbor, that still doesn't explain why they can't spare a single damned ship, to simply leave immediately from here, unless they literally don't... have... any.

...Man, if Gallia doesn't even have ships... that's... I mean that's a pretty severe mark against their tech level, especially in this time period, and especially especially when they aren't even laguz that can swim, and especially especially especially when they have a known pirate problem.

...But I'm going to have to wait until tomorrow for the actual answer, so... that's it for today, then.

Stay safe, everyone.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Espurrhoodie]

9 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So yes, we finally meet face to face with King Caineghis, the guy whose name you apparently can't say on YouTube or else you get demonetized.

Oh shit really you can't? Huh. Weird. Then again I have zero idea how to pronounce that name and I just end up calling him Mufasa anyway

Also, I'm still here. I just can't really think of much to comment tbh

[Etrurian emperor]

On 6/19/2020 at 4:58 PM, Alastor15243 said:

It's heavily implied that that encounter with the Black Knight before they went to the Gallian Castle was not the first time the BK met Greil as the BK.

I think that has a lot to do with Zelgius always having been the Black Knight. Of course not with his now iconic armor but there are hints that Zelgius already went around fully armored back in Gawain's days. During their flashback Sephiran notes that he never takes off his armor to conceal his identity. If Tauroneo is aware that BK was Greil's student then he doesn't seem to be aware of his identity either. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Etrurian emperor

[Alastor15243]

 

6 minutes ago, Espurrhoodie said:

Oh shit really you can't? Huh. Weird. Then again I have zero idea how to pronounce that name and I just end up calling him Mufasa anyway

Also, I'm still here. I just can't really think of much to comment tbh

Glad to know you're still here at least! Hoping you find stuff to say in the future though!

And yeah, the software YouTube uses to make automatically generated captions, which I think is connected to its "bad words detection" method, hears kay-ne-giss and apparently, according to Mangs, detects somebody dropping N-bombs.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Alastor15243