Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yes, but we moved on from that issue ages ago, this isn't some revolution that Three Houses added. Every game since then has avoided having that "waiting next to each other for turns on end" thing as a system. The 3DS games have my personal favorite growth methods, though the GBA games probably have my favorite support bonuses.

True enough, but you make it sound as if 3H took a major step backwards in terms of supports. I prefer the way supports in 3H form more organically, myself, as opposed to needing to force it, which is a serious PITA when it comes to supporting certain units, like Azura with LITERALLY ANYONE.

40 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Again - you literally have to use Silas to get Sophie. Use him and drop him after you get Sophie, I don't care. Or better yet, give him to her as a statpack - as father/daughter, they start with an instant C-support, after all.

Fair enough.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

True enough, but you make it sound as if 3H took a major step backwards in terms of supports.

It did. It basically removed support building or even support choice as gameplay mechanics entirely. There's pretty much no act of building specific supports, no rewards beyond basic accuracy boosts if you do (to the point that they might as well just make it a hit/evade boost that happens when you gang up on an enemy with any ally and increases with your professor level and basically nobody would have noticed a gameplay difference), and no limits on who you can support with that would add any strategic decision making at all. The support mechanic has been modified to the point that it basically no longer exists as anything but story fluff.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It did. It basically removed support building or even support choice as gameplay mechanics entirely. There's pretty much no act of building specific supports, no rewards beyond basic accuracy boosts if you do (to the point that they might as well just make it a hit/evade boost that happens when you gang up on an enemy with any ally and increases with your professor level and basically nobody would have noticed a gameplay difference), and no limits on who you can support with that would add any strategic decision making at all. The support mechanic has been modified to the point that it basically no longer exists as anything but story fluff.

Didn't Echoes do this beforehand, though? That is, the game with no support caps, various innate supports, and a handful that would be built up through normal play (in a game where deployment limits are... just not a thing)? Where there's no reason not to go for maximizing all your support possibilities - and no substantial obstacle to doing so, either.

[Alastor15243]

9 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Didn't Echoes do this beforehand, though? That is, the game with no support caps, various innate supports, and a handful that would be built up through normal play (in a game where deployment limits are... just not a thing)? Where there's no reason not to go for maximizing all your support possibilities - and no substantial obstacle to doing so, either.

Yeah but you still need to get these guys to fight together in order to get them, and I like the system where you gain support points when doing any action within 2 spaces. Plus, that was an addition to a game that previously had basically no support system at all.

[Shadow Mir]

41 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It did. It basically removed support building or even support choice as gameplay mechanics entirely. There's pretty much no act of building specific supports, no rewards beyond basic accuracy boosts if you do (to the point that they might as well just make it a hit/evade boost that happens when you gang up on an enemy with any ally and increases with your professor level and basically nobody would have noticed a gameplay difference), and no limits on who you can support with that would add any strategic decision making at all. The support mechanic has been modified to the point that it basically no longer exists as anything but story fluff.

And you don't consider the fact that some characters tend to have a harder time getting supports, like Azura for example (because let's face it, her job is to give allies extra turns - and they're likely gonna use those extra turns to move away from her, to say nothing of her durability being, to be blunt, shit), to be a more egregious problem? Having different bonuses is nice - IF AND ONLY IF you can have a reasonable expectation of them coming in play regularly. Let's go back to Azura. Her support bonuses at S rank are 15 avoid, 10 hit and 10 crit evade. Sounds nice for a dodgetank to have, until you realize that because it specifically requires them to be next to her, there's the concern that she gets attacked instead - and she has no durability whatsoever (and there's the fact that the premiere dodgetank in Fates is more likely than not going to be paired up anyway, which doesn't help). Anyway... didn't Awakening do what you're whining about beforehand, at least as far as making support bonuses uniform?

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

And you don't consider the fact that some characters tend to have a harder time getting supports, like Azura for example (because let's face it, her job is to give allies extra turns - and they're likely gonna use those extra turns to move away from her, to say nothing of her durability being, to be blunt, shit), to be a more egregious problem?

? Its really easy to grind up Azura supports, its one of the easiest characters to quickly build supports with if you want to, just spam the dance option...

[lenticular]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

It did. It basically removed support building or even support choice as gameplay mechanics entirely. There's pretty much no act of building specific supports, no rewards beyond basic accuracy boosts if you do (to the point that they might as well just make it a hit/evade boost that happens when you gang up on an enemy with any ally and increases with your professor level and basically nobody would have noticed a gameplay difference), and no limits on who you can support with that would add any strategic decision making at all. The support mechanic has been modified to the point that it basically no longer exists as anything but story fluff.

On the one hand, yeah, I'd not disagree that they're basically removing it as a mechanic. But on the other hand, I've never found supports a compelling game mechanic anyway, so I mostly just see this as trimming the fat. I'd much rtathre have no mechanic at all than one that I find actively detrimental to the game.

24 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

? Its really easy to grind up Azura supports, its one of the easiest characters to quickly build supports with if you want to, just spam the dance option...

This is an excellent example of what I was saying before about the tactical flexibility that's lost by supergluing two units together. Being able to use dance/sing on whoever will benefit from it the most on a given turn is significantly more powerful and more fun than always using it on the same person to grind up a support.

[Shadow Mir]

25 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

? Its really easy to grind up Azura supports, its one of the easiest characters to quickly build supports with if you want to, just spam the dance option...

That would seriously be shooting myself in the foot if the unit I'm trying to have her marry is a combat unit, which most units are. Also, 10 times out of 10, it's better to have her refresh whoever it benefits me most to give an extra turn to at the moment than having her refresh the same unit over and over for the sake of building a support. Not to mention dance spam is rather glacial in terms of support building.

[Benice]

For my two cents on the support mechanic, I think it's really bad for a variety of reasons.

First off, it's relevant to gameplay in basically three or four games, those being Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, and Fateswakening. I like the concept in the GBA games, but the gain system isn't functional. I don't mind the static supports in Thracia, though.

Secondly, it's not a good way to build up characters. Any combination of supports can occur at any time in a story, thus erasing character development and the like-We can also get tone-deaf supports and similar issues. Plus, limiting the interaction to two characters both inflates the amount of supports you have, (One of my biggest problems with Three Houses-Too many supports, most of them pointless. I don't MIND pointless, fluffy interactions, but Three Houses absolutely shoves it down your throat) and limits the amount of interactions you can have. Xenoblade 2's Heart-to-hearts are similar to TH's supports in that they're mostly random fluff, but having multiple characters and not having about ninety of them immediately makes them very enjoyable.

Building off the previous paragraph, it limits what control the writer has due to supports being controlled by the player's actions. Instead having the events play at fixed times, or, in the case of paralogues/side content, after OTHER events, allows the interactions to be much better without erasing character development. You can still have these events give bonuses to the two characters as well, or use them as promotion events or the like. Instead of having Sylvain say that he'll get better as a person then reverting back to normal in the next support, (or leaving his development to an offscreen ending) we can see him grow over time and actually change over the course of the story. It turns the characters from static to dynamic.

And that's reason number 6.022 x 10^23 that I love Berwick Saga!

 

So. That was a rant. Point being, I don't see why the support mechanic is especially beloved in the franchise, since it's rarely ever really unique and isn't a very good way to build characters.

[lenticular]

9 minutes ago, Benice said:

Building off the previous paragraph, it limits what control the writer has due to supports being controlled by the player's actions. Instead having the events play at fixed times, or, in the case of paralogues/side content, after OTHER events, allows the interactions to be much better without erasing character development. You can still have these events give bonuses to the two characters as well, or use them as promotion events or the like. Instead of having Sylvain say that he'll get better as a person then reverting back to normal in the next support, (or leaving his development to an offscreen ending) we can see him grow over time and actually change over the course of the story. It turns the characters from static to dynamic.

You know, when you put it like that, I'd be interested to see what a Fire Emblem without supports would like. Provided they added in other content focused on characterisation, like you're saying. I'm sure it would be a big culture shock at first, but yeah, they could probably make it work. And I do think it's healthy for a series to be willing to change even long-established conventions (cf the weapon triangle).

[Benice]

Just now, lenticular said:

I'd be interested to see what a Fire Emblem without supports would like. Provided they added in other content focused on characterisation, like you're saying.

Allow me to plug this game yet again.

Anyways, yeah. I feel like Berwick Saga pulled off really, really good characters without having support convos. In my opinion, the cast is the best of any FE/like game I've played. It's actually the thing that made me think this way about supports!

[lenticular]

17 minutes ago, Benice said:

Allow me to plug this game yet again.

Anyways, yeah. I feel like Berwick Saga pulled off really, really good characters without having support convos. In my opinion, the cast is the best of any FE/like game I've played. It's actually the thing that made me think this way about supports!

The whole "game in a language I don't speak for a console I don't own" thing is too big an impediment for me, unfortunately. And unlike older FE titles with the same problem, there's basically zero hope of it ever being remade or rereleased. Which is sad.

[Eltosian Kadath]

27 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Not to mention dance spam is rather glacial in terms of support building

It takes 9 dances to cap support points for a map, and 7 maps (two of those maps only requires three dances to reach the next rank, and one only requires 6 dances, and she has a fast support with Corrin, so even less required for that one) to reach S rank, and there are no restrictions like needing the stats to survive combat, or needing one to be injured to gain support points. You must be playing very fast if you can't afford a total of 48 turns of Azura dancing someone over the course of the game (and that is assuming you don't have some incidental adjacent combats to speed it up, or that the unit you are supporting is never useful enough to be the best option for her dance...). Plus random MyCastle events can push it even faster.

 

32 minutes ago, Benice said:

 

First off, it's relevant to gameplay in basically three or four games, those being Path of Radiance, Radiant Dawn, and Fateswakening. I like the concept in the GBA games, but the gain system isn't functional. I don't mind the static supports in Thracia, though.

You could argue its relevant to FE6 as well, as the accuracy and critical values in that game (combined with the heavy skewing of the 2RN system) can make those bonuses very relevant, although they build very slowly...

 

35 minutes ago, Benice said:

 

Building off the previous paragraph, it limits what control the writer has due to supports being controlled by the player's actions. Instead having the events play at fixed times, or, in the case of paralogues/side content, after OTHER events, allows the interactions to be much better without erasing character development. You can still have these events give bonuses to the two characters as well, or use them as promotion events or the like. Instead of having Sylvain say that he'll get better as a person then reverting back to normal in the next support, (or leaving his development to an offscreen ending) we can see him grow over time and actually change over the course of the story. It turns the characters from static to dynamic.

And that's reason number 6.022 x 10^23 that I love Berwick Saga!

22 minutes ago, lenticular said:

You know, when you put it like that, I'd be interested to see what a Fire Emblem without supports would like. Provided they added in other content focused on characterisation, like you're saying. I'm sure it would be a big culture shock at first, but yeah, they could probably make it work. And I do think it's healthy for a series to be willing to change even long-established conventions (cf the weapon triangle).

This is sounding an awful lot like things Kaga did in Tear Ring Saga as well, and its gameplay is more similar to FE than Berwick Saga's is. Although if you don't emulate it probably wont be an option for you...

 

[Benice]

30 minutes ago, lenticular said:

The whole "game in a language I don't speak for a console I don't own" thing is too big an impediment for me, unfortunately. And unlike older FE titles with the same problem, there's basically zero hope of it ever being remade or rereleased. Which is sad.

If you have a PS2 or 3, it is possible to mod it so that you can play the translated version, I think. I know someone who's done that, at least.

28 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

You could argue its relevant to FE6 as well, as the accuracy and critical values in that game (combined with the heavy skewing of the 2RN system) can make those bonuses very relevant, although they build very slowly...

I love FE6 to death, but yeah, they just grow too slowly to be practical in my opinion.

...That said, I always have Wade/Lot at A by chapter 7

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, lenticular said:

You know, when you put it like that, I'd be interested to see what a Fire Emblem without supports would like. Provided they added in other content focused on characterisation, like you're saying. I'm sure it would be a big culture shock at first, but yeah, they could probably make it work. And I do think it's healthy for a series to be willing to change even long-established conventions (cf the weapon triangle).

Sounds like Radiant Dawn to me.

[Punished Dayni]

On 3/7/2021 at 3:17 AM, Alastor15243 said:

Frankly, that thing about normal mode auto-leveling them... Honestly? That should've just been a basic feature in all difficulties if they were going to pull this shit.

They do give some levels at timeskip on the other difficulties, but yeah I get what you mean, it's nowhere near as helpful.

Frankly that map as a whole can go bite me. As it did when I played, I was just stubborn enough to push past it.

[Alastor15243]

Birthright Day 18: Chapter 24

WOO! Oh I've been waiting all weekend to do this! Slight dampener on the experience is that I'm currently holding the 3DS without the grip I've been using for a while, because it's become painfully apparent that the grip is a piece of shit made out of plastic so low quality that whenever my palms get sweaty it leaves a sticky residue all over my palms that I can feel and see peeling off my hands and rolling up into little grey strings when I rub my palms together. I bought a new grip over the weekend and I'm hoping it arrives soon.

Chef's hat for everyone today, just to be sure!

Ah, Bastion, I see you're using the walled castle and blocking off the three main 3-wide openings with the indestructible buildings. Personally I prefer using the water castle because the enemies can't break the water tiles like they can do with the walls. Generally a more lasting defense.

Alright, time for Chapter 24, the single funniest chapter in the game.

And they were not trying to make it that.

So they're going through the weird tunnel secret passageways through Castle Krakenburg, and we wind up... here. These are some screenshots I took from a previous playthrough when I went on reddit some three years ago to point out the dumbfuckery I'm about to describe:

So, first issue: Despite Azura's assurance that she “actually [remembers] this part of the tunnel”, she appears to have cocked up her sense of direction so badly that when we come out the other end, not only are we not in the throne room, but we are on a platform suspended several fucking hundred meters above it. Given that we started in the sewers, she must have taken a wrong turn so fucking early into the journey up here that the idea that she remembers any part of this tunnel from when she was kidnapped from the castle as a child is either a total delusion or complete bald-faced bullshit.

But that's not the dumbest part of this shit. Oh no, not even close.

So, notice how you can see the outer walls of Castle Kakenburg on this map, and the beams that connect this platform to them? You know how that therefore implies that this structure spans the entire width of the outer walls?

Watch the intro to Chapter 2 again. I'd give you a link, but Serenes Forest hates when I put video links in my posts and prevents me from saving any edits I make to them until they're gone. Go on, I'll still be here when you get back.

Did you watch it? Did you notice anything, perhaps during the zoom-in from above on Castle Krakenburg?

The place we're fighting on isn't there. There are plenty of structures like it, but they're much smaller, and none of them span from wall to wall directly over the castle.

They fucking made this place up for this battle, with no regard to what fucking kind of sense it makes that they'd wind up here or that it doesn't appear in Chapter 2.

Ah yes, and of course, just to capitalize on how thoroughly Azura cocked up here, we walked in not on the Nohrian throne room, but on the drill grounds for the Nohrian army. Meaning we're almost instantly surrounded after making too much noise observing them doing their drills.

Ah yes, and the infamous “I'm not a vengeful person... but [Hans] killed Gunter right in front of me. I'd sure like to avenge his death”.

What a ridiculously casually worded line.

So now Azura, Ryoma and Dakota all face off against heroes and generals, and yeah, I've already talked at length about how stupid it is that the story scenes make Azura out to be some kind of combat badass when she has the defense and HP growths of a roll of toilet paper you accidentally drop into a running shower.

But yeah, sheer numbers eventually wear us down, and then Hans, like a coward, goes in for the kill after several of his soldiers have died to put Dakota in this state.

Guys.

Guys.

Seriously.

I implore you.

Watch the full opening story scene on your own.

My words cannot do justice to the slapstick platinum that follows.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...I'll assume you went and did that and just got back, but otherwise, if you really insist on having this positively magical moment of slapstick bathos spoiled for you...

...so be it.

Hans goes in for the kill...

...and just as he's about to hit Dakota...

...who should dive in to save her...

...but Lilith, who may I remind you, has not once appeared outside of My Castle since the end of Chapter Fucking Six.

She dives in, and rather than swooping in at lightning speed and lifting Dakota out of the way like we know she can do...

...she just hops into frame, takes the axe blow meant for Dakota, and despite all the food you've likely given her and all of those nutritious level ups, she instantly goes down, flopping to the floor like a dead fish.

FUCKING PRICELESS.

...Okay, I'm done laughing my ass off. Time to actually get on with the map.

So we're surrounded from all sides, and have to do a lot of player-phase combat to avoid getting swarmed on turn one. Yet again we'll be retreating to the south, eliminating the enemy's access to the siege towers nearest to us. After that, Ryoma and Silas will be on standby to enemy-phase anything particularly nasty, but at the moment, our main issue is taking out these generals and the great knights and sorcerer behind them.

Thankfully, I have user of the hammer in Scarlet, a user of the sting shuriken in Asugi, and I've got Kana as a filler unit and he can easily use the armorslayer to great effect with swordfaire without having to relegate that job to Ryoma or Silas. After ripping those generals to shreds, Silas, Ryoma, Saizo and Mozu will be able to go in after the guys in back, which should be more than enough to take them all out.

First up, Scarlet takes out the middle one, allowing anyone taking out the others to enjoy hammer dual strikes.

Dakota, as usual, activates-

...Nope, Scarlet gets her second consecutive 8% critical, robbing Dakota of her chance to hurt herself. Damn it. Alright, guess I've gotta use Azura's song on Dakota for the purpose of her trying again and not for getting Ryoma deeper into the fray.

AND SCARLET CRITTED THE FUCK AGAIN! WHY DID I LET HER KEEP THE HAMMER ON AFTER THAT!?

Oh, and also, Dakota's been getting amazing level ups after my decision to promote her at level 13, which, as you can imagine, royally pisses me off. Also, in an absolutely unprecedented situation, Kana is superior to Dakota in literally every stat.

Thankfully, I wasn't depending on Silas getting vow of friendship activated to do anything this turn, but still, seriously, that was just a veritable plague of good fortune right there.

I'm setting up a new opportunity to get Dakota wounded, and I'm also preparing Silas to fight the opposite side of the incoming forces.

Mission accomplished. Vow of friendship activated. Finally.

But yeah, my player-phasers are ripping through these enemies that have just shown up. Enemy attack power's starting to get high enough that Ryoma and Silas enemy-phasing tons of stuff is starting to become a gamble, so it's really nice I've got some guys who can take some of the load off.

...Man, if Hinoka were still alive, Subaki would have lancefaire by this point. Shame. Well, he can still find use thanks to the powerful dual strikes his allies can give him.

And the wyvern lords start coming in from the corners of the map! This looks like a job for my air force!

Yeah, this map is pretty dang fun. Nothing overly complicated after that opening move, but it's pretty cathartic mowing down these hordes of enemies on player-phase rather than enemy phase. If memory serves, I remember Binding Blade being harder, though I might be confusing lower difficulty with reduced stress due to added convenience features and no fog of war or ambush spawns. I really am gonna need to replay Binding Blade again sometime soon in order to be sure. Binding Blade sure as hell had its fair share of mindlessness, I have to remember, thanks to how easy it is to dodgetank.

Anyway, Ryoma and Silas have reunited at the top, and we can finish this map whenever we want to. Let's see what the reinforcements do...

...Yeah, forget it, the enemies are like six levels below most of my army. Let's just end this.

And by killing Hans, we get the chakram, which will be going to Asugi after feeding him some arms scrolls.

And now... yep. In the ending cutscene, there's a ridiculous, drawn-out death scene for Lilith as she's allowed to return to her human form in her final moments to say goodbye. Admittedly, Elise and Sakura both teaming up to try and heal her (and failing) was pretty endearing. But still, holy shit is this entire shitshow hilarious.

And Elise says that Garon's room is “this way”, like they only took a small wrong turn and there's some tunnel they can take that can get them the hundreds of feet down they need to go to get to the castle proper.

Alright, we're back at East Dakota, so let's check out the supports. Apparently those two dual strike crits unlocked Dakota's support with Scarlet, so let's check this out...

Interesting. So Cheve's such a powerful enemy for Nohr because it's home to three major companies of knights. Scarlet planned to join one, but then she saw how shit Garon was, so she formed her own that became the resistance. I wonder if we'll learn what happened to the other companies though, and if they were an issue for the resistance that had to be fought.

And now Mozu and Silas are rank A.

Yeah, this is... pretty much exactly how you'd think this would end. Nothing particularly interesting or funny, unfortunately.

But yeah, time to make the rounds around My Castle to finish up...

...and visit Lilith's shrine.

See... it's now a place where you leave food as an offering for the dead Lilith, with her little hat lying on the place she used to happily float in the air with her little ball.

It would actually be kinda sad.

...If it weren't for the fact that mechanically, literally nothing has changed.

Lilith still levels up from the food you leave for her, it still plays that level up jingle every time, and she still helps you out in castle battles from beyond the grave.

This is the dumbest and most pointless story death I have ever fucking seen, so ridiculous as to be utterly insulting.

And it is comedy gold.

And that, I feel, is a perfect place to leave off for the day.

Stay safe, everyone!

Edited March 8, 2021 by Alastor15243

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

She dives in, and rather than swooping in at lightning speed and lifting Dakota out of the way like we know she can do...

...she just hops into frame, takes the axe blow meant for Dakota, and despite all the food you've likely given her and all of those nutritious level ups, she instantly goes down, flopping to the floor like a dead fish.

FUCKING PRICELESS.

Weird - in gameplay, jumping in front of a blow intended for someone else does no harm to the defender. But in story, doing so basically guarantees the death of the defender. Both in this case, and in one that's coming up. I wonder if anyone at IS noticed this discrepancy...

20 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Dakota, as usual, activates-

...Nope, Scarlet gets her second consecutive 8% critical, robbing Dakota of her chance to hurt herself. Damn it. Alright, guess I've gotta use my song on Dakota for the purpose of her trying again and not for getting Ryoma deeper into the fray.

AND SCARLET CRITTED THE FUCK AGAIN! WHY DID I LET HER KEEP THE HAMMER ON AFTER THAT!?

Scarlet's just being a good friend. She hates to see Dakota harm herself at that weirdo Silas' request, after all.

23 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, first issue: Despite Azura's assurance that she “actually [remembers] this part of the tunnel”, she appears to have cocked up her sense of direction so badly that when we come out the other end, not only are we not in the throne room, but we are on a platform suspended several fucking hundred meters above it. Given that we started in the sewers, she must have taken a wrong turn so fucking early into the journey up here that the idea that she remembers any part of this tunnel from when she was kidnapped from the castle as a child is either a total delusion or complete bald-faced bullshit.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Nohrian architecture. The shadowy accents are extremely subtle, and without a keen disregard for the aws of physics, the designs will hover several hundred feet over your head.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Dakota, as usual, activates-

...Nope, Scarlet gets her second consecutive 8% critical, robbing Dakota of her chance to hurt herself. Damn it. Alright, guess I've gotta use my song on Dakota for the purpose of her trying again and not for getting Ryoma deeper into the fray.

AND SCARLET CRITTED THE FUCK AGAIN! WHY DID I LET HER KEEP THE HAMMER ON AFTER THAT!?

 

41 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Scarlet's just being a good friend. She hates to see Dakota harm herself at that weirdo Silas' request, after all.

Also, you must have secretly wanted to listen to Super Smash Bros. Hammer music.

As an aside, the fact that enemies almost universally use silver weapons, which drop crit evade, at this point means that random crits are likely to crop up now and again.

51 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Weird - in gameplay, jumping in front of a blow intended for someone else does no harm to the defender. But in story, doing so basically guarantees the death of the defender. Both in this case, and in one that's coming up. I wonder if anyone at IS noticed this discrepancy...

On the flipside, chapter 11 has the defender take no damage when Mystery Man attacks Azura and Kaze takes the hit instead.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

And the wyvern lords start coming in from the corners of the map! This looks like a job for my air force!

I would also note that the Dragon Veins cause storms that slow them down.

12 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

It takes 9 dances to cap support points for a map, and 7 maps (two of those maps only requires three dances to reach the next rank, and one only requires 6 dances, and she has a fast support with Corrin, so even less required for that one) to reach S rank, and there are no restrictions like needing the stats to survive combat, or needing one to be injured to gain support points. You must be playing very fast if you can't afford a total of 48 turns of Azura dancing someone over the course of the game (and that is assuming you don't have some incidental adjacent combats to speed it up, or that the unit you are supporting is never useful enough to be the best option for her dance...). Plus random MyCastle events can push it even faster.

That still sounds slower than a Slowpoke. Also, if I'm in an actual chapter rather than a random battle, having Azura out of action for the sake of building a support severely handicaps me in terms of winning, which goes back to this:

13 hours ago, lenticular said:

This is an excellent example of what I was saying before about the tactical flexibility that's lost by supergluing two units together. Being able to use dance/sing on whoever will benefit from it the most on a given turn is significantly more powerful and more fun than always using it on the same person to grind up a support.

Hell, I said something similar my the post you quoted.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

On the flipside, chapter 11 has the defender take no damage when Mystery Man attacks Azura and Kaze takes the hit instead.

And in the Conquest chapter where Lilith dies again, Azura does a story dual guard to defend Corrin and fully blocks it.

[Shadow Mir]

5 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

And in the Conquest chapter where Lilith dies again, Azura does a story dual guard to defend Corrin and fully blocks it.

And I have to ask, why Azura, instead of someone who can actually, you know, take a hit? Like Xander? Oh, and it happens again in chapter 26 when Iago tries to attack Corrin... and AGAIN, Azura blocks it, instead of someone who can actually take magic attacks well. Because that'd make too much sense.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Shadow Mir

[Samz707]

27 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

And in the Conquest chapter where Lilith dies again, Azura does a story dual guard to defend Corrin and fully blocks it.

With all this talk of Lilith, I'm still amazed she just never appears again in Revelations, did they forget to put in the chapter to kill her off where she saves Corrin by Body-blocking Sephiroth's Super Nova? 

Like her entire purpose is basically to die dramatically in the routes but then they just forget to include her.

Edited March 8, 2021 by Samz707

[Interdimensional Observer]

The Hans lategame chapter was yet again easier for you than it was for me. I've done it on Lunatic with a full army staving off the hordes before, but I found myself rather unable to that on another. Instead, I took the cheesy strategy you didn't mention here- fly off the left or right over the open air, free of enemies, and ORKO Hans with his spectacularly low Def. Nothing stops you from doing that. Sounds like bad design, but it's BR, and CQ exists, so maybe having an easy option is okay?

[Alastor15243]

7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Hans lategame chapter was yet again easier for you than it was for me. I've done it on Lunatic with a full army staving off the hordes before, but I found myself rather unable to that on another. Instead, I took the cheesy strategy you didn't mention here- fly off the left or right over the open air, free of enemies, and ORKO Hans with his spectacularly low Def. Nothing stops you from doing that. Sounds like bad design, but it's BR, and CQ exists, so maybe having an easy option is okay?

Wow, that never occurred to me. Might have if I got desperate enough to think of how to cheese it, but no. What was giving you such a hard time?

[Eltosian Kadath]

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...but Lilith, who may I remind you, has not once appeared outside of My Castle since the end of Chapter Fucking Six.

She dives in, and rather than swooping in at lightning speed and lifting Dakota out of the way like we know she can do...

...she just hops into frame, takes the axe blow meant for Dakota, and despite all the food you've likely given her and all of those nutritious level ups, she instantly goes down, flopping to the floor like a dead fish.

FUCKING PRICELESS.

And to think. the Conquest version is even dumber...

 

7 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Interesting. So Cheve's such a powerful enemy for Nohr because it's home to three major companies of knights. Scarlet planned to join one, but then she saw how shit Garon was, so she formed her own that became the resistance. I wonder if we'll learn what happened to the other companies though, and if they were an issue for the resistance that had to be fought.

With Fate's track record on world building, I doubt they fleshed this out either...

 

6 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

That still sounds slower than a Slowpoke. Also, if I'm in an actual chapter rather than a random battle, having Azura out of action for the sake of building a support severely handicaps me in terms of winning, which goes back to this:

Never have a spare turn or two where the action dies down a little, or is this a I completed every chapter in under 9 turns thing. You are acting like its a monumental task to have someone you dance when your dance use isn't critical that turn...

 

3 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The Hans lategame chapter was yet again easier for you than it was for me. I've done it on Lunatic with a full army staving off the hordes before, but I found myself rather unable to that on another. Instead, I took the cheesy strategy you didn't mention here- fly off the left or right over the open air, free of enemies, and ORKO Hans with his spectacularly low Def. Nothing stops you from doing that. Sounds like bad design, but it's BR, and CQ exists, so maybe having an easy option is okay?

To be fair Alastor did use multiple child paralogues just to grind up his troops, so they were probably higher level than yours were, and better able to deal with the hoards...