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Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Now Enduring: Three Houses

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If one wants to check, I've linked before where to find the Japanese script. So one can see for themselves if true or not.

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22 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

Given what we do know of Kusakihara it wouldn’t necessarily surprise me. Especially considering he’s likely the one who wrote the SS route in 3H where one of the primary purposes of the route was to flesh out the relationship between Rhea and Byleth but Rhea is relegated to just a damsel in distress. And to my knowledge it’s the only route you can S-support her.

I think that's more a resource management thing though. Rhea is the damsel in distress in three out of the four routes because there are really only two routes, Crimson Flower and all the others.  The problem lies more in the fact that the development team was either unwilling or unable to differentiate Azure Moon, Verdant Wind and Silver Snow from each other.

I think Three Houses might actually be among the FE's least dismissive of their female cast members. The two most prominent people on the continent are both woman, as is the divine figure worshiped by the continent, and in most houses or institution the most talented among them tend to be female. Edelgard seems the most important figure in the narrative by a very large margin and there don't seem to be as many damsels in distress compared to other games. Even the bandits don't go ''har har I got ya now, pretty!'' whenever they see a girl this time around. 

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20 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think Three Houses might actually be among the FE's least dismissive of their female cast members. The two most prominent people on the continent are both woman, as is the divine figure worshiped by the continent, and in most houses or institution the most talented among them tend to be female. Edelgard seems the most important figure in the narrative by a very large margin and there don't seem to be as many damsels in distress compared to other games. Even the bandits don't go ''har har I got ya now, pretty!'' whenever they see a girl this time around. 

The bolded part, I wouldn't consider an especially good argument. Most Fire Emblem titles refer to a "goddess", and in the other games where they're given form (such as Tellius), they're generally represented as female. The only games I can think of without a goddess are Fates and Sacred Stones, and even those ones still have "Goddess Icons".

That said, I totally agree otherwise. Rhea's "Damsel-hood" in part II of non-CF routes stands in stark contrast to her role in White Clouds, wherein she acts as Archbishop - possibly the single highest authority on the continent. Moreover, she's not brainwashed and forced to fight against the player (a la Tiki or Delthea), nor is she treated as a "bargaining chip" to manipulate the player's army (like Mathilda or Lucia). I don't think all female characters in captivity can be dismissed as "damsels in distress", or else the term becomes pretty much meaningless - and in Rhea's case, she's more of a "political prisoner-of-war" than anything else.

Anyway, comparing Three Houses to Echoes/Gaiden in terms of treatment of women really feels like night and day. You know, Gaiden? The game where every female unit Alm recruits has to first be saved from captivity at the hands of wicked men? Three Houses does nothing close to that.

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3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think that's more a resource management thing though. Rhea is the damsel in distress in three out of the four routes because there are really only two routes, Crimson Flower and all the others.  The problem lies more in the fact that the development team was either unwilling or unable to differentiate Azure Moon, Verdant Wind and Silver Snow from each other.

I think Three Houses might actually be among the FE's least dismissive of their female cast members. The two most prominent people on the continent are both woman, as is the divine figure worshiped by the continent, and in most houses or institution the most talented among them tend to be female. Edelgard seems the most important figure in the narrative by a very large margin and there don't seem to be as many damsels in distress compared to other games. Even the bandits don't go ''har har I got ya now, pretty!'' whenever they see a girl this time around. 

You’re missing my point. It’s not the fact that she’s a damsel that bothers me. It’s the fact that one route that allows you to understand her character better and is supposed to flesh out her character more has her as a Damsel in Distress for like 60% of the game. It doesn’t feel like her and Byleth’s relationship is based in mutual trust and understanding(like BylethxEdelgard is) but rather just that you saved the hot dragon milf. She’s not really much of a character in SS. More of a trophy for beating Edelgard if anything. Though take my words with a grain of salt because it’s been a while since I’ve even thought about touching 3H.

It is better than how SoV handles its female cast I will give it that though. Cause oh boy is SoV very mysoginistic in its treatment of its female characters. And I’m not just talking the damsels in distress either. If it were just the damsels in distress then there wouldn’t be an issue. It’s everything in conjunction with the damsel in distress nonsense  that make this game the problematic mess that it is

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10 hours ago, Ottservia said:

 

Given what we do know of Kusakihara it wouldn’t necessarily surprise me. Especially considering he’s likely the one who wrote the SS route in 3H where one of the primary purposes of the route was to flesh out the relationship between Rhea and Byleth but Rhea is relegated to just a damsel in distress. And to my knowledge it’s the only route you can S-support her. He’s also the one responsible for the new character additions in SoV as well most likely which uhh yeah. Also from what I hear, there was actually a lot of mysoginistic dialogue in the jp version of the game that was cut in localization though I don’t know too much about that

To be fair Rhea is a damsel in all the routes except Crimson Flower. She's damseled so much she doesn't even appear in Azure Moon. And while it would be very nice to have more Rhea in Silver Snow specifically, it being a complete clone of Verdant Wind suggest far deeper production issues beyond how they chose to write a single character.

EDIT: I see people have brought up these exact points already. Curse my unwillingness to view the next page before commenting.

Edited by Jotari

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7 hours ago, Ottservia said:

You’re missing my point. It’s not the fact that she’s a damsel that bothers me. It’s the fact that one route that allows you to understand her character better and is supposed to flesh out her character more has her as a Damsel in Distress for like 60% of the game. It doesn’t feel like her and Byleth’s relationship is based in mutual trust and understanding(like BylethxEdelgard is) but rather just that you saved the hot dragon milf. She’s not really much of a character in SS. More of a trophy for beating Edelgard if anything. Though take my words with a grain of salt because it’s been a while since I’ve even thought about touching 3H.

Yeah but like I said. I think this is mostly the result of Nintendo/Koei being unable or unwilling to differentiate the routes. Rhea's lack of focus in SS is regrettable but I think its more of a by product of the development process rather than any narrative decision. 

That said I think its a bad decision not to have Rhea be involved in part 2. I think her captivity is fine in Verdant Wind since Claude is mostly anti church and her absence allows him room to craft a new Fodlan without her in power. But in Azure Moon especially I think Rhea should have been present. She completely fits in with the themes of revenge, corruption and insanity. 

10 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Anyway, comparing Three Houses to Echoes/Gaiden in terms of treatment of women really feels like night and day. You know, Gaiden? The game where every female unit Alm recruits has to first be saved from captivity at the hands of wicked men? Three Houses does nothing close to that.

Yeah its definitely a big contrast. In Echoes most woman aside from Mae and Sonya are either on the dainty side, damsels or Celica who's far too easily manipulated through her emotions. I also think its a bit of a contrast with Fates where its made very clear that the older sisters are the junior royals compared to their little brothers. But in Three Houses its the female half of the cast which is depicted as the more competent half. There are exceptions of course (Bernie!) but within the Beagles its easy to see Petra and Dorothea as the talented and driven ones, and Lin and Caspar as two dorky goofballs, with the Deers the talented and hard working Lysithea or the driven Leonie can be considered more admirable than the foppish Lorenz or the wacky Raphael, with the church its Catherine who's the strongest knight, and while not noticeable more talented than her childhood friends Ingrid can at least claim to be the only one of the bunch who's well adjusted about their past. 

Which isn't to say there aren't any powerful, talented or dedicated males or meek woman but overall I'd say the female cast members come off better than their male counterparts whether its in ability or maturity. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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I'd say, that highlights another trouble that can arise when wanting to fix misogyny. Resorting to misandry. So often you see the trope of the competent female and bumbling/idiot/scatterbrained male. That's not equality, it's just swinging the pendulum the other way. But well, I'm not that well versed with TH to judge in full.

Edited by Acacia Sgt

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22 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd say, that highlights another trouble that can arise when wanting to fix misogyny. Resorting to misandry. So often you see the trope of the competent female and bumbling/idiot/scatterbrained male. That's not equality, it's just swinging the pendulum the other way. But well, I'm not that well versed with TH to judge in full.

In fairness I didn't even notice the "women are the most competent ones" thing in 3H until EE pointed it out, and this is coming from someone who's especially annoyed at the "bumbling dad/men" trope and despises Three Houses with damned near every fiber of my being. So I really don't think it's that prominent or that big a deal.

Edited by Alastor15243

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Also, I'd agree on the notion that Gaiden/SoV has quite a few damsels in distress. But I'd say it also has it's fair share of dudes in distress. Valbar, Leon, Kamui, Jesse are all males you have to bail out of danger or actually rescue from captivity. And it's done by Celica, so you have a woman coming to several men's rescue only, which while not a perfect 50-50, it's still something present in addition to having a man doing the same to women.

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Shadows of Valentia Day 19: Promotions, Promotions Everywhere

So let's start out with that troop of sorcerers. Should be no problem with Kliff. He can't one-round them though (he's off by a single attack point with his 4 attack iron bow), so I'll have my other guys finish them off when they're wounded.

...Yep, that was simple enough. Time for the dungeon.

...If they only let you bring the first 10 like I remember, they don't make any mention of that in the “order” menu. At any rate, I put Forsyth, Python and Lukas in back, since they're the ones I least want to bring.

...Yep, it doesn't let you bring any more or less than exactly ten. Weird that the game doesn't say that. There's no sign on the order menu of where the cutoff is.

The skeletons here have really high defense, which makes it a pain in the ass to feed these kills to any but my mightiest physical units. But that's really the only challenge here, because my army can just bum-rush them with ease. Especially when getting the first strike in, which I notice not only has them start pre-wounded, but also has your army start closer to them. Which can be... a bit of a double-edged sword if they bring in reinforcements.

Weird. The lightning sword's foudroyant's combat art info doesn't say it boosts attack power by anything, but then when I see the combat window it shows it doubles the sword's 15 might (therefore guaranteeing it does more damage than doubling against anything with 1 or more res). Yeah, I'm looking at it again, I'm not crazy. It says “Mt+0”. The fuck? Is that due to the fact that the sword doesn't use your attack? Or does it just flat-out double it including forge boosts? That might explain it, though I wish they explicitly said it doubled might.

Found a fountain of resistance. Now, I could give this to Alm to boost his rather meager resistance, but... this guy isn't going to be fighting mages. Certainly not multiple at once. Not if I'm doing things properly. No, I think this should go to my resident mage-killer to make him even better at his job. So Kliff, step right up!

Ah, pity, it was only 2 points. Oh well, 2 points is still nice.

Ah yes, and we just got Clair and Gray's B support, which consists exclusively of Clair shutting Gray down for being shallow and horny. And at the end of the rant:

Clair: Now never speak to me again.

...This... these supports do not feel like they're between people who have been getting along in their own weird tsundere way behind the scenes. This is written like it's literally the entirety of Gray's interactions with her. Just him immaturely flirting and her opting for the nuclear response. I do not get any fucking chemistry between these people at all. And I know with near certainty that the A support isn't going to help. Tobin and Gray's support implied their relationship was a lot more interesting than these supports indicate, even though what Tobin implied wouldn't have exactly been my favorite thing either.

Alm got Double Lion! Excellent! And I tried it out to finish the skeleton battle. It's a lot of fun to use, especially when you can use it in conjunction with warp and rescue.

Okay, so now we're downstairs in the secret side tunnel. I wonder what's down here? I forget, except that it's good, but also kinda dangerous.

Seekers of treasure: come no further unless you possess power”.

Ah yes. Alright, let's do this.

Of course. Gargoyles. Well they don't come in huge numbers, but their speed is crazy, so I'll have to be a little careful.

Silque unlocked the sister class change too. Awesome. Hopefully we find the shrine soon.

Yeah, so, if you go straight for the treasure, the gargoyles will come alive all at once. But if you attack them one by one, you only wake up that one and the one nearest as reinforcements, so it's way easier to sneak-attack all of them.

Kliff got HP and speed. Is the curse finally broken?

Alm gets attack and defense. Honestly, while I'd still like speed... double lion definitely makes it less necessary, especially on the offense.

And Clair got... the falcon knight promotion!? Wow, that snuck up on me! I think that's the first time I've gotten Clair to falcon knight in this game, and it came surprisingly naturally this time for some reason.

And the reward was a single gold mark. Honestly... I was hoping for more. But I was also expecting worse from the gargoyles, so...

...Awesome, we're at the shrine. And I think we just found that kidnapped girl!

Ah, and a talk with Faye. Yeah, since we're at the same conversation stage we've been at for all of this act, Faye obviously uses Alm and Celica's fight to try to pry Celica out of Alm's heart to make room for her. It's... pretty predictable.

Wow, Silque's defense is bad enough to actually improve slightly from upgrading to Saint. Hilarious.

Clair gets some massive bulk (+11 HP and +3 defense) from becoming a falcon knight, and 1 more mov, but nothing else statistically. Well, she's decently strong with a steel lance, so I suppose I can work with that. Especially now that she does bonus damage to terrors. Only a fixed 10 compared to the madness of the original Gaiden, but still, that should be more than enough to be devastating. Especially since she's fast enough to double gargoyles even with a steel lance.

And deeper into the dungeon we get... Water of HP or water of experience. Let's see...

...I could use this to get Gray to dread fighter right now...

...or Tobin to sage right now...

...or I could give Alm three levels worth of stat boosts.

...Yeah, let's get Tobin promoted. He's reaching the point where he's starting to struggle to contribute, and having a second physic user would be excellent.

...Oh.

...Tobin only needed one level to promote to sage?

...Right, it's 12. I forgot 14 is for female mages.

...Guess I can give him two more levels and get him 2 away from learning physic then!

Those levels were really unimpressive, incidentally, but it doesn't matter. He doesn't have to see a lick of combat anymore to be useful. All he needs is to heal Faye or Silque at the back lines until he gets physic in two levels. That's fine by me.

Right, now let's take out these enemies on the way out then.

Alm got speed and defense. Happy with that.

Alright, back to Celica then. And we've got a double reinforcement battle on our hands. A myrmidon troop and a cantor. Let's see what the damage is...

...Okay, the cantor I can assassinate almost immediately with the three units I can deploy on the east side of this “save Palla and Catria” map, leaving only the mercenary group. That shouldn't be too hard to deal with.

Yep, the cantor went down immediately. Palla got a defensesauce level up, and Kamui got skill, speed and luck. Both are acceptable, not that I'd have restarted if they were bad.

Atlas has a rocky start, but now that the archers are gone, I think I can feed the remaining mercenaries to him.

Oh right! Atlas and Celica have supports!

Aw, I like Atlas. He's... rough, but also really nice. Though I do find it a bit weird that Atlas says Celica saved his life when them meeting was nothing that dramatic.

Atlas is leveling really fast. True, he's not gaining much from these levels, but I only need to feed him a handful more kills before he can become a myrmidon and start really kicking ass.

Alright, I'll take care of this zombie horde and then be done with it for today. And I'm gonna have, who else, Atlas do it. Borrowing Celica's blessed sword.

Yep, he just killed an entombed, granting him a heck of a lot of experience. He only needs two more levels. All I have to do is get him on a tombstone and have everyone else stand the fuck back.

...Yeah, and since there was a second entombed, I think it's safe to say he'll be promoting after this battle.

...Which means I'll have to backtrack through this and probably repeat those battles again, because there is a ridiculous shortage of shrines in Celica's Act 3.

...But I'll be handling that next week. For now, gotta clean up here.

Done.

Alright, that's about all I can do today. Next week, I think we'll be finishing up Act 2. Might have to pick up the pace a bit to do that though.

Stay safe, everyone!

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Shadows of Valentia Day 19: Promotions, Promotions Everywhere

So let's start out with that troop of sorcerers. Should be no problem with Kliff. He can't one-round them though (he's off by a single attack point with his 4 attack iron bow), so I'll have my other guys finish them off when they're wounded.

...Yep, that was simple enough. Time for the dungeon.

...If they only let you bring the first 10 like I remember, they don't make any mention of that in the “order” menu. At any rate, I put Forsyth, Python and Lukas in back, since they're the ones I least want to bring.

...Yep, it doesn't let you bring any more or less than exactly ten. Weird that the game doesn't say that. There's no sign on the order menu of where the cutoff is.

 

It doesn't give you any indication if you're just reordering on the world map, but I'm pretty sure when you're going into a dungeon it has the little green icon on the character indicating if they're being deployed when use reorder on the dungeon prep screen.

 

Quote

And deeper into the dungeon we get... Water of HP or water of experience. Let's see...

This is a hilarious unbalanced choice. A free level up is so much better than a free point of HP. Not only is HP the worst stat weighted point for point, but it's the one with the highest growth on most characters, so chances are you'll get it anyway with a level up. You're bound to get at least 1 stat that's better than HP anyway. And even if you get absolutely no stat ups or something like just skill (well for one you can save spam it, the Mila statue is right there), an extra level is still better with 0 stat boosts as it puts you one step closer to the promotion threshold  which, for most classses, comes with some very significant benefits. The resistance/level up choice in Celica's route is a much better balanced one as Resistance is hardest stat to level up.

 

Edited by Jotari

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9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It doesn't give you any indication if you're just reordering on the world map, but I'm pretty sure when you're going into a dungeon it has the little green icon on the character indicating if they're being deployed when use reorder on the dungeon prep screen.

Huh. I didn't see that, but I'll have to look again.

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This is a hilarious unbalanced choice.

Big time. It's one of those things where I'm like... "was there REALLY no temptation to change that?".

Edited by Alastor15243

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46 minutes ago, Jotari said:

This is a hilarious unbalanced choice. A free level up is so much better than a free point of HP. Not only is HP the worst stat point for point, but it's the one with the highest growth on most characters, so chances are you'll get it anyway with a level up. You're bound to get at least 1 stat that's better than HP anyway. And even if you get absolutely no stat ups or something like just skill (well for one you can save spam it, the Mila statue is right there), an extra level is still better with 0 stat boosts as it puts you one step closer to the promotion threshold  which, for most classses, comes with some very significant benefits. The resistance/level up choice in Celica's route is a much better balanced one as Resistance is hardest stat to level up.

The one case I could see HP being preferable is an Alm solo run. Wherein, he'll have no trouble hitting level 20 before promotion. Otherwise? EXP all the way.

5 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yeah its definitely a big contrast. In Echoes most woman aside from Mae and Sonya are either on the dainty side, damsels or Celica who's far too easily manipulated through her emotions. I also think its a bit of a contrast with Fates where its made very clear that the older sisters are the junior royals compared to their little brothers. But in Three Houses its the female half of the cast which is depicted as the more competent half. There are exceptions of course (Bernie!) but within the Beagles its easy to see Petra and Dorothea as the talented and driven ones, and Lin and Caspar as two dorky goofballs, with the Deers the talented and hard working Lysithea or the driven Leonie can be considered more admirable than the foppish Lorenz or the wacky Raphael, with the church its Catherine who's the strongest knight, and while not noticeable more talented than her childhood friends Ingrid can at least claim to be the only one of the bunch who's well adjusted about their past. 

This really seems like an exercise in cherry-picking. The Golden Deer have Lysithea and Leonie, sure, but they also have Hilda, whose key character trait is "being lazy and getting others to do her chores for her." The Black Eagles have lazy Linhardt, yes, but they also have Ferdinand von Aegir, who is nothing if not diligent. Catherine may be "the cream of the cream", but Jeralt is also counted as "the strongest knight who ever lived". I'd say Three Houses is pretty egalitarian, in how its characters are represented. 

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also, I'd agree on the notion that Gaiden/SoV has quite a few damsels in distress. But I'd say it also has it's fair share of dudes in distress. Valbar, Leon, Kamui, Jesse are all males you have to bail out of danger or actually rescue from captivity. And it's done by Celica, so you have a woman coming to several men's rescue only, which while not a perfect 50-50, it's still something present in addition to having a man doing the same to women.

They weren't being held captive, though - they were in a fight, and she helped them out. Much like Celica does for Palla and Catria later on. Jesse is the only male character that she rescues from being held captive. 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Weird. The lightning sword's foudroyant's combat art info doesn't say it boosts attack power by anything, but then when I see the combat window it shows it doubles the sword's 15 might (therefore guaranteeing it does more damage than doubling against anything with 1 or more res). Yeah, I'm looking at it again, I'm not crazy. It says “Mt+0”. The fuck? Is that due to the fact that the sword doesn't use your attack? Or does it just flat-out double it including forge boosts? That might explain it, though I wish they explicitly said it doubled might.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to use the Lightning Sword. Its combat arts are extremely subtle, and without advance knowledge of Fates RN, most of the calcs will go over your head.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Alm got Double Lion! Excellent! And I tried it out to finish the skeleton battle. It's a lot of fun to use, especially when you can use it in conjunction with warp and rescue.

/game

Double Lion on a fully-forged Royal Sword was how I beat Thabes, more or less. It's an absurdly good art, but then again, what brave art isn't?

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1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

They weren't being held captive, though - they were in a fight, and she helped them out. Much like Celica does for Palla and Catria later on. Jesse is the only male character that she rescues from being held captive. 

Exactly. They're in distress, and Celica gets them out of distress. So it still counts.

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This really seems like an exercise in cherry-picking. The Golden Deer have Lysithea and Leonie, sure, but they also have Hilda, whose key character trait is "being lazy and getting others to do her chores for her." The Black Eagles have lazy Linhardt, yes, but they also have Ferdinand von Aegir, who is nothing if not diligent. Catherine may be "the cream of the cream", but Jeralt is also counted as "the strongest knight who ever lived". I'd say Three Houses is pretty egalitarian, in how its characters are represented. 

Sure, a bit to drive the point home. I must admit I committed the unforgivable sin of even having forgotten that Ferdinant von Aegir existed when I wrote it. Though I'd say Ferdie, especially in part 1 sometimes risk being on the goofier end of the spectrum and its made pretty clear that most of his classmates find him a bit of a pest.

Quote

Exactly. They're in distress, and Celica gets them out of distress. So it still counts.

As far as being in distress goes I think there is a difference in agency between dying in a blaze of glory or being held prisoner in a jail cell. That said this difference is not particularly big. While not exactly the same I think team Valbar indeed counts. Besides I think Pala and Catria are often also listed as ''in distress'' despite being in the same boat as team Valbar, in that they're under attack and are then bailed out by team Celica. 

Edited by Etrurian emperor

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6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

That said I think its a bad decision not to have Rhea be involved in part 2. I think her captivity is fine in Verdant Wind since Claude is mostly anti church and her absence allows him room to craft a new Fodlan without her in power. But in Azure Moon especially I think Rhea should have been present. She completely fits in with the themes of revenge, corruption and insanity. 

 

We already have a vengeful protagonist to follow on AM. Having Rhea there as well would just detract from the story unless you want to overdo the craziness. SS should be where Rhea is active, not AM which is supposed to focus on the Kingdom. 

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Just now, Icelerate said:
 

We already have a vengeful protagonist to follow on AM. Having Rhea there as well would just detract from the story unless you want to overdo the craziness. SS should be where Rhea is active, not AM which is supposed to focus on the Kingdom. 

That's exactly why I think Rhea could have been very promising. Rhea has already been in the dark place that Dimitri is and as Crimson Flower suggests she is still in danger of snapping back into that mindset. Rhea could either spiral into corruption along with Dimitri, or be a more calmer presence who wants to help him because she knows what its like to be trapped in that state. 

If anyone in the cast can relate to Dimitri(for better and certainly for worse) its Rhea. 

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Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

That's exactly why I think Rhea could have been very promising. Rhea has already been in the dark place that Dimitri is and as Crimson Flower suggests she is still in danger of snapping back into that mindset. Rhea could either spiral into corruption along with Dimitri, or be a more calmer presence who wants to help him because she knows what its like to be trapped in that state. 

If anyone in the cast can relate to Dimitri(for better and certainly for worse) its Rhea. 

I think Rhea and Dimitri could use more screen time to flesh them out in CF. There are some theories that suggest Dimitri gets a child from Rhea. 

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1 minute ago, Icelerate said:

I think Rhea and Dimitri could use more screen time to flesh them out in CF. There are some theories that suggest Dimitri gets a child from Rhea. 

All of Edelgards enemies needed more time to flesh them out in CF. I think you mean Dimitri assuring people that house Blaidyth will live on after he's dead. I think it referred more to his uncle. The way Dimitri phrased it seemed to make it more about his royal house rather than the church. If the Royal family got a baby from Seiros he'd likely have shouted it from the rooftops.

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27 minutes ago, Icelerate said:

There are some theories that suggest Dimitri gets a child from Rhea. 

https://i.imgur.com/QbaoqOw.png

Why?

Edited by Maof06

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1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

As far as being in distress goes I think there is a difference in agency between dying in a blaze of glory or being held prisoner in a jail cell. That said this difference is not particularly big. While not exactly the same I think team Valbar indeed counts. Besides I think Pala and Catria are often also listed as ''in distress'' despite being in the same boat as team Valbar, in that they're under attack and are then bailed out by team Celica. 

Agreed in drawing a distinction. Moreover, the "distress" that Valbar and co find themselves in is directly due to his decision to go after the Pirates. So they're in as much "distress" as Celica herself (who also picks a fight with Barth, and who can also be killed by his forces).

I believe the same is true of Palla and Catria. If they didn't view defeating those bandits as an imperative, couldn't they have just... I dunno, flown away? Nobody is forcing them to risk their lives in this case.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Sure, a bit to drive the point home. I must admit I committed the unforgivable sin of even having forgotten that Ferdinant von Aegir existed when I wrote it. Though I'd say Ferdie, especially in part 1 sometimes risk being on the goofier end of the spectrum and its made pretty clear that most of his classmates find him a bit of a pest.

Perhaps, but Lysithea is also quite callous toward her classmates. Most of the students, it's possible to find a mix of positive and negative traits within.

1 hour ago, Icelerate said:

I think Rhea and Dimitri could use more screen time to flesh them out in CF. There are some theories that suggest Dimitri gets a child from Rhea. 

Yo that's messed up.

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6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also, I'd agree on the notion that Gaiden/SoV has quite a few damsels in distress. But I'd say it also has it's fair share of dudes in distress. Valbar, Leon, Kamui, Jesse are all males you have to bail out of danger or actually rescue from captivity. And it's done by Celica, so you have a woman coming to several men's rescue only, which while not a perfect 50-50, it's still something present in addition to having a man doing the same to women.

You know if it was just the damsel in distress then it wouldn’t bother me so much because this is a remake of 1991 famicom game. Most video game stories around that time just amounted rescuing the princess or whatever. So I can forgive the damsel in distress stuff. What I can’t forgive is everything else. 
 

First, let’s talk about Faye. She was added to the game to give Alm’s army more female representation. She’s also the only female character you recruit on Alm’s path that isn’t a damsel in distress. Which on its own it’s actually great. It adds a female on Alm’s side that doesn’t fall into that somewhat sort of problematic pattern. But then you realize all her character amountts to is Literally just her obsessive love with the protagonist and nothing else. And combined with damsel in distress bullshit that just makes it even worse. 
 

And don’t even get me started on Rinea. A literal piece of cardboard whose soul purpose is to humanize Berkut. Which on its own would be fine in a vacuum. But they just had to do it in the most sexist way imaginable. They don’t develop their relationship enough for me to believe for second that she has any reason to forgive him when he literally sacrifices her for the sake of his own ego. That whole scene is just gross to me.

and that’s not even getting into how poorly the narrative treats Celica. She constantly makes stupid decisions which results in needing to be saved by a man in the end. Again if it was just the damsel in distress shit it wouldn’t bother me but then you combine that with all of this bullshit and it’s really not a good look.

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5 minutes ago, Ottservia said:

and that’s not even getting into how poorly the narrative treats Celica. She constantly makes stupid decisions which results in needing to be saved by a man in the end. Again if it was just the damsel in distress shit it wouldn’t bother me but then you combine that with all of this bullshit and it’s really not a good look.

The worst part there was that Celica was actually somehow better in Gaiden because it was the only option she had to save Alm from an endless horde of necrodragons, so it was more like Hercules's deal with Hades to save Meg rather than anything thick headed and stupid. And they didn't explicitly mention the "Duma needs your soul" thing at all, least of all as a reason she was doing it. But in this version I'm pretty sure they got rid of the infinite necrodragon trap and thus completely changed the context of Celica's deal with Jedah.

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5 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Exactly. They're in distress, and Celica gets them out of distress. So it still counts.

While it's true, it is a little different. Namely in that it happens twice for Celica, as Kamui, Valbar and Leon all come at once. And Celica does recruit men who aren't in distress. For Alm it is literally every single female character with the exception of Faye. Five seperate characters five separate times all of which are female and zero females recruited aside from the one they add in. It's a bad look. Six if you count Celica too (and literally every female character in the game except Faye when you consider Alm's army saves Celica's army in the end). I don't think this was necessarily misogyny in its origin as it does indeed happen to Jesse too. It was probably more just a lack of crativity when it comes to recruiting characters as the structure of the game demanded characters be recruited in village sections and having them in prison was a reasonably good excuse for that. Nevertheless the fact that it happens for literally every woman Alm meets is unfortunate, to say the least.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

The worst part there was that Celica was actually somehow better in Gaiden because it was the only option she had to save Alm from an endless horde of necrodragons, so it was more like Hercules's deal with Hades to save Meg rather than anything thick headed and stupid. And they didn't explicitly mention the "Duma needs your soul" thing at all, least of all as a reason she was doing it. But in this version I'm pretty sure they got rid of the infinite necrodragon trap and thus completely changed the context of Celica's deal with Jedah.

I can confirm that yes, the Necrodragon trap is not presented as a deciding factor for Celica at all. Though I'll also add that the original plot point of the Necrodragon trap had Jedah...well actually sticking to his word in actually freeing Alm from the trap which seems sort of weirdly honorable for the simplistic character he is (all the more reason they should have given Jeddah a bit more nuance in Echoes really).

Edited by Jotari

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Boey shares his VA with Dimitri. Mae shares her VA with Rhea. According to SoV's endings, they had many children.

Now everything makes sense.

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