Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Alastor15243]

Shadows of Valentia Day 37: Tower of Duma

Yet again I find myself forced to leave Leon behind. Leaving behind one of the pegasisters seems unwise, Atlas can promote, Sonya is so close to promoting it may just take one more kill, and even Conrad should become a gold knight in a battle or two. My two dread fighters have plenty to gain by gaining exp as well. Leon, however, is pretty much at the limits of his power. He has hunter's volley, and he's a bow knight. That's pretty much as far as he can go, especially since he can't enemy-phase like Kliff can.

The music here is... hold on, lemme check if Gaiden had a track here...

...Yep, it did. Like with the first dungeon theme, they made it a lot more eerie and ominous rather than explosive and in your face. Probably for the best, even if this original song had more potential to be good when intense than the first dungeon theme's did. The first dungeon theme in Gaiden was just beyond grating. Here, it's actually a pretty cool fast-paced melody.

So far the reinforcements are just tons and tons of sorcerers, which are probably the scariest enemies to have to player-phase because they do so much damage to you and have so much range. And there are so goddamned many of them, especially when another group shows up out of nowhere because there was some other enemy in the explorable dungeon nearby you didn't see.

Atlas and Celica's A support is... cute, again, but kinda weird. Not sure how to explain it but I just find myself disappointed by the subject matter, like something more interesting could have been talked about. Maybe that's just me.

This place is a goddamned maze, and without a zoom-out map, that intimidates me, but at least I found the ladyblade, which is going on Sonya the second I get to the shrine and promote her.

...Also, at least I don't have to keep fighting enemies when retracing my steps like in some other games with dungeons.

Found a speed spring, gave both to Celica. And then...

...found the shrine.

Alright, Sonya's a priestess and gets a whopping 4 HP. But of course she also gets swords and the recovery spell.

Atlas only gets 1 HP, but who gives a shit? Atlas's stats have gotten utterly psychotic. As a level 1 sage, he has:

52 HP (apparently the cap)

36 attack

28 skill

28 speed

9 luck

13 defense

4 resistance

Look at those stats. Look at them. He's a fucking monster, and I haven't even gone out of my way to grind! This is just the stuff that's naturally happened while going at a reasonable pace. And soon Atlas is gonna have rescue, so I'll have two warpers and two rescuers for the final battle once Tatiana is ready.

Oh yeah, so, this means there's a Mila idol in the basement of the Duma Tower, and... while I get that it's headless because the Duma Faithful don't give a shit... Why is it there in the first place? Who made all of these statues to Mila in Rigel?

So, after getting a treasure chest with a silver purse full enough to get me to 300 silver, it occurs to me this is my last chance to use any of Celica's goods for forging, so I went back to the Sage's Hamlet and upgraded Leon's killer bow from 2 to 3 stars, then gave the blessed sword and lance 1 star each and the silver lance (which I just remembered I had and gave to Catria for some much-needed power) 2 stars.

Alright, last thing I find on the first floor is a lone spring of luck, so I give it to Atlas. And as for the boss of the first floor...

...It's a mildly intimidating array of enemies, but nothing my army can't handle.

...Alas, it looks like Atlas's terrible growths have finally caught up with him. He won't be getting much stronger, because now that he's capped HP, he will no longer get a mandatory minimum of one stat up per level. Whether that means only HPsauce level ups will now be nothing, or if the game just gives up on the concept of a minimum single stat level up entirely, I do not know. But it seems god king Atlas shall ascend little further.

...Okay, preliminary evidence seems to suggest the latter. But at any rate, one attacksauce level later, and Atlas has rescue at long last. Excellent.

Conrad's a gold knight know, and he gains some nice defense and HP and one mov, but nothing else.

Rather ominously, this statue has no hint for us after an offering like normal. She just cuts straight to the “May you always walk in the light of Mila's blessing”.

And just as soon as we're out, Saber reaches level 10, so it's time for the second dread fighter loop participant!

Alright, one quick battle to gain two quick levels later, Saber is ready to go from villager to something new.

...Fuck it, let's make him a mercenary again. No sense in getting rid of another brave sword user.

The resistance and movement may be a loss, but this turned Atlas into a god. Atlas. Imagine what it'll do to someone like Saber, who actually has growths.

Alright, Celica and Conrad have another support.

...I'm not even going to dignify that tiny thing with a response.

Saber's defense is 18 now. By the time he becomes a myrmidon, he'll be unstoppable.

And finally, after all of this reclass-inspired back-and-forth, I'm finally leaving the first floor.

Oh, so now we start fighting terrors!

Shit, even as a myrmidon, Saber's still getting full level ups from single kills on some enemies! Meanwhile Kamui, a level 9 dread fighter, barely gets 10 exp. That is the freakish power of the dread fighter loop.

Honestly, the dread fighter loop causing me to backtrack so much has made me realize how goddamned repetitive these encounters are, and how little they do to mix them up per floor. Dealing with them has practically become a reflex at this point, with the only thing mixing them up being bad hit rates and crit-dependent units meaning I sometimes have to send backup to different areas.

And Kamui has finally hit level 10, but I'm going to keep him as a dread fighter, because if I put him through the loop as well I'll never be able to leave the first floor for all the class change opportunities I'll be getting. Shame though, because compared to Saber he's absolutely terrible now.

...Okay, I beat the second floor necrodragon. I'm gonna head back to save, because by the time I get there, Saber will be a dread fighter again.

Yes. That's how little time it takes.

But yeah, with that, I think I'll be done for today. I did half of one of the two final dungeons. I think that's enough to call good progress.

Stay safe, everyone!

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yet again I find myself forced to leave Leon behind. Leaving behind one of the pegasisters seems unwise, Atlas can promote, Sonya is so close to promoting it may just take one more kill, and even Conrad should become a gold knight in a battle or two. My two dread fighters have plenty to gain by gaining exp as well. Leon, however, is pretty much at the limits of his power. He has hunter's volley, and he's a bow knight. That's pretty much as far as he can go, especially since he can't enemy-phase like Kliff can.

Speaking of the pegasus sisters, I found Palla isn't quite as good as her sisters - something I never thought I'd be saying. Being much slower than them isn't good when it takes only 1 speed above you to follow-up.

[Jotari]

Leaving Leon behind here might make sense for the tower battles, but remember he can be useful in the final battle for sniping at Jeddah and his biggles, so you might want to bring him along just for the Duma fight.

[Samz707]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Oh yeah, so, this means there's a Mila idol in the basement of the Duma Tower, and... while I get that it's headless because the Duma Faithful don't give a shit... Why is it there in the first place? Who made all of these statues to Mila in Rigel?

 

Since The old Duma Faithful didn't seem to have too much ill-will towards Mila/Zofia (They literally kept Conrad safe) perhaps originally in Rigel you were still allowed to worship Mila and/or it wasn't uncommon for people to just turn a blind eye/not really care if someone did.

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Jotari said:

Leaving Leon behind here might make sense for the tower battles, but remember he can be useful in the final battle for sniping at Jeddah and his biggles, so you might want to bring him along just for the Duma fight.

...Shit, for some reason I thought your whole army got arbitrarily brought into the final battle. I sure as hell remember a ton of people being there.

...If I'm going to kick someone out for Leon's sake, it's proooooooobably gonna be either Kamui or Sonya.

[Shadow Mir]

36 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Shit, for some reason I thought your whole army got arbitrarily brought into the final battle. I sure as hell remember a ton of people being there.

...If I'm going to kick someone out for Leon's sake, it's proooooooobably gonna be either Kamui or Sonya.

You get 20 units for the final battle against the forces of evil.

[Jotari]

16 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Shit, for some reason I thought your whole army got arbitrarily brought into the final battle. I sure as hell remember a ton of people being there.

...If I'm going to kick someone out for Leon's sake, it's proooooooobably gonna be either Kamui or Sonya.

10 from Celica's army 10 from Alm's army as far as I recall. Though now that I think about it, I did just do a minimum recruitment for Alm and full recruitment for Celica (that includes Faye and Kliff on Celica's side along with all four of the DLC to try and break deployment limits on Celica's maps) and under those circumstances where Alm had less than 10 units, Celica's army were avilable to be placed next to Alm, which pbviously meant I had access to more than the 10 that were brought to the temple. I'm not sure if that's a special work around or something though. Maybe you can just undeploy and deploy whomever you want once the battle prep actually starts. I have it in my head though that it's the 10 units you bring to each dungeon, at least when playing it in Chapter 5 and not 6. Maybe I'm just confusing it with Gaiden though.

[Alastor15243]

Shadows of Valentia Day 38: Completing the Tower

Thanks again, viewers, for reminding me that my tower picks are my final battle picks. I might've had to give up Leon if not for that. I'll be ditching Kamui for him, mostly because his strength is just kinda pathetic and even with the brave sword, he can't reliably kill anymore. Granted, I could dread fighter loop him, but I've done that already with Saber and Atlas, and yet again, I wouldn't even be able to make it to the tower boss without having to go back to promote him, probably twice. I've already made my point about how the dread fighter loop breaks the game in half.

...Also, it feels kinda weird that the prep music for going into the final dungeon of Celica's part... is just the usual upbeat Celica prep theme. Frankly, that was something I really liked about Awakening, that it actually changed the prep music to darker stuff at key moments.

But whatever, let's go in.

...It seems you have to re-fight the bosses every time you leave the building.

...Uh...

…

…

…

Fuck it, I'll swap out Conrad for Kamui. Conrad's barely useful either, and at least Kamui can become useful, and has a brave sword so he can occasionally crit kill enemies until then. If I'm gonna be backtracking to save again anyway, might as fucking well make Kamui a menace too. Besides, that'll give Leon a support to make his attacks even more powerful.

It's kind of ridiculous how all over the place my team's attack power is. At every stage of the game, the dread fighter line, whether through class bases or dread fighter loop abuse, has an overwhelming statistical advantage against anyone without amazing growth rates, so the other classes have to provide a damned good niche in order to remain relevant. And yet many of them don't. Generals are basically pointless at this stage, cavalry have basically no advantages over dread fighters whatsoever except for 2 mov, mage utility basically entirely depends on their spell list at this point, and Bow knights, if they don't have good growths backing up their poor class bases, are relying on one specific weapon with one specific combat art for the bulk of their utility, and if you don't even know that exists, their utility drops by orders of inordinate magnitude.

Kamui: I don't really get it, but as long as it works, I guess I don't have to.

Gosh, as if somebody just tried to explain to him how the dread fighter loop works in-universe.

I decided to make him a cavalier so that heading back for class changes isn't as crucial to get his movement rate up to snuff, and I gave him Conrad's blessed lance. Alright, let's rush this damned tower.

WOOOOO!

I MANAGED TO GET REWARP ON SONYA! SWEET! I doubt if I'll ever be able to get a use out of it, given it takes your turn and 99% of the battles she'll have from now on will be over in a turn or two, but still, cool to know I got it for her!

...Wait... are victory poses customized to characters, and not classes? I just realized that Kamui's holding his lance like he's re-sheathing a sword. That's... that's fucking badass, man. I can't believe that hadn't sunk in until now! Everyone has a personalized victory animation that applies to every damned class?

Alright, first floor boss vanquished. Now for the second.

We barely hit the second floor landing before Kamui got to a high enough level to be a paladin. I have no comments on this situation that would not be redundant at this point.

Okay, so, I just used rewarp, and something I find myself really, really missing from Path of Radiance is that it lets you just move your cursor directly to the spot you want to use a staff effect on, rather than making you cycle through the viable spaces, which can get obnoxiously tedious when there are a lot of viable spaces to pick, like, say, with what happens with rewarp here.

Okay, floor 2 clear, time to head up to floor 3.

All three of my dread fighter loopers capped HP alarmingly soon into the loop, which I marvel at when I see them grayed out as I choose who to give this HP fountain water to. I eventually decide on Sonya, not that it really matters.

This floor was really short and had a bow knight boss. Alright, let's see this...

Nothing but physical attackers, so my badasses on columns should do the trick.

...Yep, did enough of the trick that it was a quick second-turn player phase away from victory.

The water of defense goes to Celica, and...

...Wait, this is just a straight dead end hallway? What? Maybe I missed something by staring at the minimap too much and didn't realize there was an opening the map didn't clearly show...

...Yep! So I did!

I fought two encounters at once, one with a gargoyle who could fly over the wall to have a threat range on both groups, but thankfully I could climb into the central area with Leon and hunter's volley it once the upper group was down.

And in the battle with the fourth floor boss, Kamui reaches level 10 paladin.

I just had Atlas heal. It's absolutely hilarious how much he can heal for. Man, if only he had physic or fortify.

...Alright. I made it. Here he is. Jedah. Right in front of me.

Time to make the biggest mistake of Celica's life.

Jedah: Impressive. I did not expect all of you to make it here.

THEN WHAT THE FUCK WAS YOUR PLAN, JEDAH!?

And no, I just checked, to give him the maximum benefit of the doubt... that wasn't him saying he didn't expect us to arrive without casualties, because according to Serenes Forest, there is no alternative dialogue if somebody dies before this. This is him saying he didn't expect our group to make it here at all.

So Jedah reveals to everyone with his powers that Mila's been impaled through the forehead and turned to stone, a la Wind Waker.

“You will likely doubt me when I say this, but that was Mila's doing. The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion. Do not ask me her motive in this, for I understand it not.”

Nor do I. Hopefully, hopefully, I'll get a satisfying answer.

Wait... has the game called the weapon Falchion before now? It's been called the Kingsfang, but I can't remember it being called Falchion.

So, Mae and Boey are somehow here to freak out about the deal finally being fully revealed, despite them not being in the goddamned party...

And now as she's breaking down in tears as her intentions are revealed, it occurs to me how selfish it is of her to lead her friends this far into the lion's den with no intention of leading them back out.

...And then Jedah teleports them all away when they're totally powerless to resist. Wow, good thing he can't do that except when the plot demands it, eh?

“Calm yourself, your highness. I've merely sent them below.”

I'm pretty sure the deepest fucking dungeons of Duma's lair are not the “wherever [they] will” that you told them to “begone to” when you cast your warp magic, Jedah.

So yeah, now her friends are even more fucked than she must have suspected they would be. Nice going, Celica.

But now we're back to Alm in... ...in “Rigelian Village”? Wow, nice going there, Clayton Bigsby. Can't even learn the name of the village you're-

...visiting...?

...I just realized that basically all of the villages in this game are like that. Most have names that can't possibly be their real names. Rigelian Village, Mountain Village, Forest Village... only Sage's Hamlet and Ram Village seem to actually be named!

...But fuck it, I'm running late, gotta wrap this up here.

Stay safe, everyone.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

51 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...I just realized that basically all of the villages in this game are like that. Most have names that can't possibly be their real names. Rigelian Village, Mountain Village, Forest Village... only Sage's Hamlet and Ram Village seem to actually be named!

Ram Village probably isn't even its proper name. Dollars to donuts, it's called that due to the sheep that live there.

52 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

So, Mae and Boey are somehow here to freak out about the deal finally being fully revealed, despite them not being in the goddamned party...

Try to leave Clive and/or Clair behind when going into Duma's Temple, and Fernand will summon them.

53 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'm pretty sure the deepest fucking dungeons of Duma's lair are not the “wherever [they] will” that you told them to “begone to” when you cast your warp magic, Jedah.

So yeah, now her friends are even more fucked than she must have suspected they would be. Nice going, Celica.

Weird that he doesn't just send them back outside. Ironically, sending them down to be eaten by Duma seriously backfires, by allowing them to be present for the final battle.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Jedah: Impressive. I did not expect all of you to make it here.

THEN WHAT THE FUCK WAS YOUR PLAN, JEDAH!?

Presumably, he expected some of her team members to die along the way. Not sure whether this dialogue changes if any of them do.

57 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's kind of ridiculous how all over the place my team's attack power is. At every stage of the game, the dread fighter line, whether through class bases or dread fighter loop abuse, has an overwhelming statistical advantage against anyone without amazing growth rates, so the other classes have to provide a damned good niche in order to remain relevant. And yet many of them don't. Generals are basically pointless at this stage, cavalry have basically no advantages over dread fighters whatsoever except for 2 mov, mage utility basically entirely depends on their spell list at this point, and Bow knights, if they don't have good growths backing up their poor class bases, are relying on one specific weapon with one specific combat art for the bulk of their utility, and if you don't even know that exists, their utility drops by orders of inordinate magnitude.

Genuinely wild that Dread Fighters get 7 move. Movement "balancing" across the first 3 games, and their respective remakes, was all over the place. That said, I do think Gold Knights deserve some credit for their mobility (2 is no small margin), access to ranged weapons, and physical bulk. Bow Knights are less there in bulk, but more there in range. Even without Hunter's Volley, a class that can move 8 tiles, and then attack 5 further, is good (full stop). Regarding Mages, while spell lists hugely matter, so does management of the Mage Ring. Armors... yeah, I've got no defense there.

[Alastor15243]

5 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ram Village probably isn't even its proper name. Dollars to donuts, it's called that due to the sheep that live there.

Well I mean Ram Wine is a thing.

 

7 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Presumably, he expected some of her team members to die along the way. Not sure whether this dialogue changes if any of them do.

According to Serenes Forest? No, it doesn't, like I said.

8 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Even without Hunter's Volley, a class that can move 8 tiles, and then attack 5 further, is good (full stop).

I'd still say it's depending hugely on its stats for that. Given that even with hunter's volley, kills take two attacks and one of them has to be a crit, the damage most archers will be doing without a killer bow is an insult to chip damage.

 

9 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Weird that he doesn't just send them back outside. Ironically, sending them down to be eaten by Duma seriously backfires, by allowing them to be present for the final battle.

I'm personally amazed he didn't teleport them to the bottom of the ocean and only tell Celica he sent them outside. Given he already had no reservations about flat-out admitting he put all of her loved ones in mortal danger, he clearly doesn't expect her to demand the safety of her friends in order to cooperate.

[Acacia Sgt]

Of course, the real and Doylist reason is that you don't pull that on the player to begin with. But Wattsonian... he probably can't do that. Duma Tower might look close to the ocean on the world map, but it might still be a couple kilometers away. Then factor the height of the tower and then the depth within the ocean. He might not be able to mass warp them all that far all at the same time. So just the base of the tower will do.

Of course, warping them horizontally instead of vertically could work... but again, you don't pull that on the player.

Unless we want to enter a debate about gravitational potential energy and its behavior on warping magic.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well I mean Ram Wine is a thing.

Yes, because it's produced by having the sheep stomp the grapes, giving it its distinctive flavor.

...Which is never confirmed, but neither is it deconfirmed.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'd still say it's depending hugely on its stats for that. Given that even with hunter's volley, kills take two attacks and one of them has to be a crit, the damage most archers will be doing without a killer bow is an insult to chip damage.

Agreed that it's stat-dependent. I was really impressed by my Bow Knight Boey, even without the Killer Bow, but he had great starting Res and got bonus levels through the Pitchfork (itself a contested resource). That said, I've found Heavy Draw off the Steel Bow to do decent damage. Nothing compared to Hunter's Volley, but solid chip regardless.

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

I'm personally amazed he didn't teleport them to the bottom of the ocean and only tell Celica he sent them outside. Given he already had no reservations about flat-out admitting he put all of her loved ones in mortal danger, he clearly doesn't expect her to demand the safety of her friends in order to cooperate.

Very weird that Jedah seems to think he's doing Celica's company a favor, by sending them to hell. Then again, his moral compass seems to point toward "surrendering your soul to Duma" as the highest honor a woman can strive for, so.

[Acacia Sgt]

You know, that would've been interesting. Take too long to reach them in Act 5, they die. So might as well, have it so the women of the party are fightable Witches instead.

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

You know, that would've been interesting. Take too long to reach them in Act 5, they die. So might as well, have it so the women of the party are fightable Witches instead.

Hilariously the original game almost does that. As you send Alm's party through the caves to Duma's lair, you're constantly given messages about Celica's party taking damage as they fight for their lives.

[Acacia Sgt]

Oh, it's not in SoV? Hm, a shame.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

 

Quote

Jedah: Impressive. I did not expect all of you to make it here.

THEN WHAT THE FUCK WAS YOUR PLAN, JEDAH!?

And no, I just checked, to give him the maximum benefit of the doubt... that wasn't him saying he didn't expect us to arrive without casualties, because according to Serenes Forest, there is no alternative dialogue if somebody dies before this. This is him saying he didn't expect our group to make it here at all.

 

As funny as I find your comment to be, I think the all makes it pretty clear he means without casualties. Detecting casualties in the tower would have been a nice touch, but, well this isn't Path of Radiance. At least as far as the canon goes Celica, Mae, Boey, Saber and Conrad all made it to the top. So all the people the plot cares about.

Quote

So Jedah reveals to everyone with his powers that Mila's been impaled through the forehead and turned to stone, a la Wind Waker.

“You will likely doubt me when I say this, but that was Mila's doing. The moment Emperor Rudolf sealed her power, Mila sealed away Falchion. Do not ask me her motive in this, for I understand it not.”

Nor do I. Hopefully, hopefully, I'll get a satisfying answer.

 

I guess spoilers, but yeah, I think Mila does explain her motives to Alm and Celica. As far as the Doylest explanation goes, my guess is that this plot point was done in order to cover Gaiden's massive plot hole of "why didn't Rudolf just kill Duma himself?" Though they never at any point leaned into that reasoning and actually suggest he was planning to before Mila fucked things up for him. Rudolf is a firm believer in the prophecy that his son will fell the gods, though is still motivated enough to do half the job himself.

Quote

..And then Jedah teleports them all away when they're totally powerless to resist. Wow, good thing he can't do that except when the plot demands it, eh?

It is a hilariously broken ability XD Duma could have full protection with Jeddah alone if he just warps any approaching armies to the surface. If I were to headcanon an explanation I would say it's the room he's in. The examination dialogue for this room with the giant brain and the pillars really freak Alm and Celica out. They have different unique dialogue expressing how creeped out they are for each of the pillars in the room. Sometimes this game's attention to detail in one area and not another is baffling.

Quote

 

...I just realized that basically all of the villages in this game are like that. Most have names that can't possibly be their real names. Rigelian Village, Mountain Village, Forest Village... only Sage's Hamlet and Ram Village seem to actually be named!

 

Even the Sage's Village is a bit of a stretch. Presumably the settlement had some name before Halcyon sought asylum there.

Quote

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well I mean Ram Wine is a thing.

Maybe it's made from sheep?

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Of course, the real and Doylist reason is that you don't pull that on the player to begin with. But Wattsonian... he probably can't do that. Duma Tower might look close to the ocean on the world map, but it might still be a couple kilometers away. Then factor the height of the tower and then the depth within the ocean. He might not be able to mass warp them all that far all at the same time. So just the base of the tower will do.

Of course, warping them horizontally instead of vertically could work... but again, you don't pull that on the player.

Unless we want to enter a debate about gravitational potential energy and its behavior on warping magic.

He warps them from Duma tower to under Rigel Castle. Which has ocean in the way. It's stuff like this that makes me say Valentia was originally designed to be really freaking small.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

He warps them from Duma tower to under Rigel Castle. Which has ocean in the way. It's stuff like this that makes me say Valentia was originally designed to be really freaking small.

I'd say it's more that the tunnels under Rigel Castle head east towards the tower. Since Duma is under the tower, not the castle.

Pretty much. Valentia was originally stated to be a remote island, not a continent. Gaiden's script labels it as such.

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'd say it's more that the tunnels under Rigel Castle head east towards the tower. Since Duma is under the tower, not the castle.

Pretty much. Valentia was originally stated to be a remote island, not a continent. Gaiden's script labels it as such.

Heading east towards the tower  makes far more sense with a small continent, ans Alm does have two or three empty screens of walking to the right to suggest that in Gaiden. But with the size Valentia is meant to be, either Alm and co are hiking for weeks (and Berkut fled in that direction for weeks before killing Ferdenand) or the door underneath the castle is some kind of portal to Duma tour. In lieu of any suggestion of the sort, the most sensible explanation is that Jedah really can just warp people to the other side of the continent. Which coming to think of it would have also been super op for troop deployment. How can you build a defensive line when theres a guy who can send soldiers a hundred km beyond it?

Edited July 16, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Heading east towards the tower  makes far more sense with a small continent, ans Alm does have two or three empty screens of walking to the right to suggest that in Gaiden. But with the size Valentia is meant to be, either Alm and co are hiking for weeks (and Berkut fled in that direction for weeks before killing Ferdenand) or the door underneath the castle is some kind of portal to Duma tour. In lieu of any suggestion of the sort, the most sensible explanation is that Jedah really can just warp people to the other side of the continent. Which coming to think of it would have also been super op for troop deployment. How can you build a defensive line when theres a guy who can send soldiers a hundred km beyond it?

It's certainly a consequence of changing the size of Valentia but keeping everything else intact.

Ultimately, another possible explanation is that at this point Jedah might just not feel the need to kill them. At least himself. The usual arrogance of wanting a kick of seeing them struggle, even if it means they have a chance of surviving. Alternatively, killing them means a waste when he could just add more Witches and Cantors into the fold (I think SoV adds an implication the Cantors are also as souless as the witches, if not in-game then on the suplemental material, but I'd have to recheck on that).

[Jotari]

13 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's certainly a consequence of changing the size of Valentia but keeping everything else intact.

Ultimately, another possible explanation is that at this point Jedah might just not feel the need to kill them. At least himself. The usual arrogance of wanting a kick of seeing them struggle, even if it means they have a chance of surviving. Alternatively, killing them means a waste when he could just add more Witches and Cantors into the fold (I think SoV adds an implication the Cantors are also as souless as the witches, if not in-game then on the suplemental material, but I'd have to recheck on that).

His methods aren't really in question. It makes perfect sense that he'd sacrifice them to Duma (even if he overestimates them and that backfires with them being able to help in the final battle). It's his power level that's questionable, as sending even a small army that far is no small feat.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

His methods aren't really in question. It makes perfect sense that he'd sacrifice them to Duma (even if he overestimates them and that backfires with them being able to help in the final battle). It's his power level that's questionable, as sending even a small army that far is no small feat.

I went to check. There is indeed a magic transporter at the end of the path under the castle. Four in fact. One leads to the Vault and Duma's chamber. So yes, Alm and company likely are simply warping over to under the tower. So Jedah might still only be warping nine people at the most for just the length of the tower.

The only problem to this, is that the Alm-Celica scene through the bars happens before the teleporter. And Mila's body can be seen here. But then, this can just say Mila isn't under the tower, since this got completely changed from Gaiden. There's no teleporter in Gaiden, to wit. Though of course, reaching Mila's body is after the teleporter.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Jotari]

21 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I went to check. There is indeed a magic transporter at the end of the path under the castle. Four in fact. One leads to the Vault and Duma's chamber. So yes, Alm and company likely are simply warping over to under the tower. So Jedah might still only be warping nine people at the most for just the length of the tower.

The only problem to this, is that the Alm-Celica scene through the bars happens before the teleporter. And Mila's body can be seen here. But then, this can just say Mila isn't under the tower, since this got completely changed from Gaiden. There's no teleporter in Gaiden, to wit. Though of course, reaching Mila's body is after the teleporter.

I'm pretty sure you can walk directly from Rigel Castle to Duma's chamber without using any teleporters. You just can't do it the first the because there are several doors that are locked from one side that must be opened by accessing them via the teleporters.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm pretty sure you can walk directly from Rigel Castle to Duma's chamber without using any teleporters. You just can't do it the first the because there are several doors that are locked from one side that must be opened by accessing them via the teleporters.

Went to check again the maps. Yeah, it does. Still, there's definitely a layout change. Since in Gaiden reaching the door to Duma's chamber involved falling through holes on the floor. And of course, the bars where the two talk are on the vault, not with Duma like in Gaiden. Still, there's something to be said about the in-game dungeons, and some buildings too, not showing us everywhere. At least some definitely don't, from the maps we see and what parts we get to see.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Alastor15243]

Shadows of Valentia Day 39: Alm's Final Stretch

Hello, and welcome to what in all likelihood will be the last week of the Shadows of Valentia playlog! If I happen to finish early, then the rest of this week will be vacation time, because I absolutely refuse to go right into Three Houses without a full weekend to catch my breath with. I was debating taking more than this, but part of me also doesn't want this to take too much longer than two years, and taking another sabbatical is about the surest way to keep that from happening.

Anyway, on with the game.

I don't know if this changes should you have done this before finishing Celica's part, but nothing happens at the Dragon's Maw. It's straight to Rigel Falls with us.

I just checked online, and yes, if I hadn't finished Celica's route yet, Alm would have faced a necrodragon fight here, but just one, which he would have then easily gotten out from.

Now, I totally get that this was almost assuredly done for gameplay purposes, because perpetually fighting for your life every other step Celica takes while working through possibly the entirety of Celica's Act 4 could be annoying, especially since, as I remember, it keeps getting harder in the original game the longer you take.

But removing this plot point entirely, rather than having the same thing happen storywise but have the fights maaaaaaybe take place offscreen eventually... essentially undermines Celica's character while removing an instance of Alm genuinely needing to be saved by her. This was the moment where Celica, desperate to save Alm from a certain slow and painful death, made a deal with the bad guy because it was literally the only option available to her, getting double-crossed and captured as she knew she might, but then doing her best to fight her way out while waiting for Alm's reinforcements to arrive.

Here, they replaced that moment of Celica being a genuine hero who bailed Alm out of trouble at great personal risk to herself... with a moment where she was tricked into committing super-suicide by the most obvious bad guy this side of Lord Voldemort because she's a simultaneously ridiculously naive and ridiculously cynical religious fundamentalist with a martyr complex.

I realize they added in the scene with Nuibaba's mirror, and perhaps that was an effort to make up for this by giving Celica a different moment of bailing Alm out, but it's not remotely the same, because the focus is entirely on Alm when Celica saves him, and it's not even confirmed to be a conscious act on her part. It's no replacement for the active borderline rescue mission that Celica goes on in Gaiden.

Seriously, I found the old version of the Dragon's Maw way more interesting than this hobbled boring shit.

But whatever, on to Rigel Falls.

There are 6 deployment slots that I'm going to cut out because it would mostly involve isolating part of my army in an area with unfavorable terrain. Instead, I'm putting everyone on the bottom. The river bridge is indeed still broken, but with all of my white magic users in one place, I can use warp and rescue to deal with that.

Kliff goes off to the side to hunter's volley the death sorcerer and take out the bow knights while everyone else either heals or stands by.

Next, enemies start coming down the massive staircase, and Gray blocks the path by attacking the bow knight.

Oh great, another witch-summoning witch. Well, that'll just take a hunter's volley eventually, but for now, gotta deal with that constant threat. Glad I only brought my best units.

Ooooh, cool! Zeke's stats are different when you get him! His level is lower, for one thing, so he's got more room to level up, and he'll do it faster!

Alright. The gargoyles always make it frustrating to bring healers nearby, so I wound up warping Kliff in early to hunter's volley the cantor there. I'll be dealing with Hestia next.

Yep, Hestia goes down in one round. But Kliff got so close to death over that last round that it took all three of my physic users to get him to full health.

By an awesome stroke of luck, I managed to arrange to give the killing blow on the boss to Tatiana, getting her nearly 100 exp when she was nearly at max exp already. The level up is shit, but I'm after her spells, not her stats.

Alright, let's keep moving forward.

The Last Bastion, as it's so appropriately called.

Honestly, the sheer length of time it takes for Slayde's horse sound effects to make way to Slayde actually going on screen makes it kind of hilarious that he leaves the fucking fort to talk shit at us.

Shouldn't this guy be scared shitless? We're literally at the last fucking line of defense before Rigel Castle.

He's bragging about having become captain of this fortress thanks to all the intelligence he gave Rigel about Zofia due to his former position, but from everything we know about this opportunistic weasel, shouldn't this be the moment where he's finally sweating bullets? We've seen this guy scared shitless in the face of genuine mortal peril, like when he spoke to Desaix in that memory prism flashback. He's scared shitless of Desaix, but not the guy who killed him?

Think about his situation. He jumped ship and sold out Zofia with all the info he had, and as a reward he was made captain of the “Last Bastion”. A fort that, he must have assumed, would never actually see military conflict because he never imagined Rigel would lose. But Rigel is losing, and how he has to actually do his job, and defend Rigel against an enemy that by this point he must realize is nearly unstoppable. He should be scared shitless. He should be terrified. He should be squirming like a goddamned worm. And even if he has more balls than that, surely his response to seeing an enemy that wiped the floor with the whole damned country's army march up to his doorstep shouldn't be to cockily ride out of the castle's protective walls to talk shit at these guys all alone with absolutely no indication he can even conceive of losing.

Clive: With no core believe to steel your spine, you turn tail at every shadow.

AND YET HERE HE IS, ACTING THIS SUICIDALLY OVERCONFIDENT. SOMETHING DOES NOT COMPUTE HERE.

Okay, so, I've decided that I'm ditching everyone I don't plan to bring into Duma's lair. So I'm only bringing my top ten units on Alm's route: Alm, Faye, Kliff, Gray, Tobin, Silque, Clive, Mathilda, Tatiana and Zeke. My main training priorities, also, are Gray, Faye and Tatiana, because I want Gray to do a dread fighter loop, I want Faye to get again, and I want Tatiana to get fortify and warp.

Yet again we have a situation where the best solution is just “Throw Kliff at it”. This time it's a huge fort full of bow knights and mire sorcerers. Once things clear up a bit I'll have some of my other units fight. Maybe have Tatiana fight some barons.

Yet another boss whose only clearly defined trait is loyalty to the man he doesn't realize wants him to die, begging said emperor for forgiveness when he fails. Christ, Rudolf is a dickbag.

For some reason the sorcerers aren't using fortify to heal the wounded bow knights... which is just making this draw out longer. Ugh.

Well, Kliff at least managed to open one way into the fort proper. Maybe if I go in that way the others will aggro and speed things up.

And Slayde of course comes charging in rather than being smart about staying in the fort because yet again his character is amazingly inconsistent and unbelievable.

Alright, Tatiana just learned Fortify! Cross that off the list!

...The enemies still aren't aggroing. And as I tragically learned full force during the trainee dungeon crawl bonus segment of Sacred Stones... stationary AI plus rout mission plus large map equals tedium incarnate. I'm just slowly feeding bow knights to Kliff and barons to my sisters.

Ooh, Silque finally got invoke! At this late in the game, I wonder if she gets to summon something really cool?

OH SHIT.

DREAD FIGHTERS.

OH YEAH, I'M GONNA BE USING THIS.

Faye got the last kill of the map... and got to level 10. Which for a fleeting second I thought meant she'd get again, but no, she just finally mastered “coral cover” coincidentally at that moment.

...Fuck it, I want to be done with this game at this point. Let's go into overtime. I'll come back to this later today and put this out sometime this evening.

When I get back, I'll take on Rudolf.

 

 

Alright, I'm back.

Let's finish up today by... well, definitely by beating Rudolf, but maybe also I'll take care of all the story stuff before we can go underground.

Let's go.

Buckle up.

Right, so, this is where Rudolf gets ready to march towards his own deliberate suicide-by-own-fucking-son, and, knowing he's about to die and these will be the last words his nephew will ever hear from him, he chooses to denounce him as a failure. True, at least he isn't ordering him into the field of battle on a suicide mission like all of his other loyal soldiers except for Massena, but this is still an amazingly dickbaggish thing to do, not to mention incredibly un-pragmatic considering that this guy is clearly unstable and highly unlikely to accept Alm's rule of Rigel.

And then of course, the infamous “UNCLE!” scream.

And holy fucking shit is Rudolf a monster. 30 attack, 26 skill, 24 speed, 13+20 luck, 25 defense, 16 resistance... these are dread fighter loop stats. You really need to rely on the fact that Rudolf won't attack Alm for this, because almost nobody can take this guy. I don't have anyone who doesn't get doubled by him, except for Kliff, and even then only if I got rid of his bow. I mean, storywise, this is an effective way to make sure that Alm is directly responsible for at least most of Rudolf's death, but gameplaywise... it's kinda cheesy. But then, that's the whole game, isn't it? The enemies are bullshit, but our bullshit is stronger.

So Rudolf tells all his soldiers that “if you have any love and loyalty for me, you'll not waste your lives this day”. But he's saying that in the sense of “please surrender if I die”, and not “I'm going to duel Alm myself, stay out of this”, or anything like that. He's knowingly throwing away even more unnecessary lives for his psychotic plan that still doesn't make any sense, and I sincerely hope I'm misremembering the Echoes explanation for it.

Alm drops yet more ludicrously thick “foreshadowing” that, yet again, just feels like winking dramatic irony from writers who don't care about hiding the twists in their own game.

And of course... here comes “Lord of a Dead Empire”, the big dramatic, operatic map music that overrides the battle music, yet again proving why that's so much better.

I feel like I should like it more than I do, but something about the instruments behind the melody is keeping it from having the impact I'd like it to. But yeah, for the most part I like it.

First turn: Kliff warps to the eastern wall to take on the eastern bow knights, with the secondary effect of giving him a place from which to snipe Rudolf without being at risk of being slaughtered by Rudolf and his crits. Alm, meanwhile, gets rescue-boosted by Faye over to the edge of Rudolf's range so he can be lured over to fight. He will “attack” Alm, he just won't attack when he “attacks”. He'll just get counterattacked. Not that this will do much. Without double-lioning, Alm only does 3 damage per round.

...Okay, so Rudolf isn't getting aggro'd. So I guess we'll just thin the numbers some so it's safer to approach with Alm.

...Also, I'm putting on headphones to better assess the music, and I can't help but notice that while the audio mixing is better than it is in Three Houses, there's still this jarring disconnect between the voice of the singer and the voices of the characters that feels... really weird in a way I struggle to describe.

...Nope, coming back to this in editing: I can describe it. The singer and the voice acting feel like they were recorded with different-quality microphones, with the voice actor microphones being worse.

So, some of the bow knights are charging, so I have Kliff take care of them. Apart from that, the only enemies moving are the barons.

...Nope! Now most of the map is charging. This might be an issue, depending on how things work out. I do have a ton of healing and other options, but... that's a lot of high-power enemies...

...Alright, most of the enemies are taken care of. All that remains is-

...One of the bow knights fled after he could have been healed by the fortify users. That feels like something other more modern games would have avoided.

Oh, and in the midst of this absurdly high-stakes and dramatic battle, as the opera singer wails his lamentations for all to hear...

...Delthea and Clair have a chat about boys.

Lovely.

Specifically, Delthea tries to get info from Clair about Clive, because Delthea has a huge crush on him. But... it ends as soon as Clair brings up Mathilda, and Delthea obnoxiously goes all “Ooooooooh, Mathilda!”. I find that line hilarious, which might explain why I used it as an entry title all the way back in the Gaiden playlog nearly two years ago, though having it happen here... yeah, it's kinda ridiculous.

Yeah, as much as I hate to insinuate that any game should take story cues from Undertale... Fire Emblem really needs a “serious mode” like Undertale does, where for certain battles, they cut out some of the humor from gameplay and the interface. In Undertale it mostly just makes the names of certain items less funny and cuts out the joke from joke items, but for something like Fire Emblem, I envision it as being something like:

1: On-battlefield support conversations are unavailable.

2: Goofy voice lines stop playing.

3: Crit quotes stop playing, or at least the snappy one-liners stop playing.

4: The level-up jingle stops playing whenever you level up.

Stuff like that. Stuff to keep the game from taking you out of what is supposed to be a dramatic moment in the story. Stuff to keep Chapter 9 of Awakening from being undermined by Lissa screaming “what a loser!” at the soldiers forced to fight you out of fear of what the madman who rules them will do to their families.

Anyway...

Tatiana's fortify is making it a hell of a lot easier to handle the player-phase, lemme tell ya. Getting to attack with impunity knowing I can heal everyone up to full with just two units' actions (the second to heal Tatiana of course) is pretty great.

...Fuck, okay, Rudolf chose a really terrible time to charge. He has linked AI with some gold knights off to the sides, who all charged at once, along with the sorcerers. I think I may have to try to take him down in one round.

Thankfully, I have the firepower to do it. Faye with seraphim and Kliff with a hunter's volley crit did a pretty damned good job, and I would've had other options too, but of course when it came Alm's turn, he critted on the first hit of double lion and instantly finished him off.

...Okay, so, the music goes to dead silence when you land the killing blow... but then the music returns when you get the angel ring, which is kinda ridiculous. It should've stayed silent. My memory may be mistaken, but it feels like this doesn't happen often in Fire Emblem, and that defeating a big climactic boss generally cuts off the music for the map unless the map isn't over.

There's no after-battle bonus exp for this though, which at least helps preserve the mood.

But yeah, now here's the “heartbreaking” moment where Alm finds out he just killed his own father because his father is a psychotic madman.

...Huh. So Alm is Alm's middle name? That's... amusing.

So, Rudolf, in his dying moments, begs Alm to take the Falchion that he killed Mila with, and use it to kill Duma.

I am dearly awaiting the game's explanation for why he didn't do this himself, or why he thinks Alm would have a better chance.

Okay, Alm's voice actor does a great job with the material, but I just can't feel the moment because it makes no sense at all.

And now we get a cut back to Jedah and Celica... where... it sounds like... the fuck? Jedah and Celica are acting like Celica hadn't already agreed to give Duma her soul, and that realizing Alm is about to venture into Duma's lair is the breaking point that convinces her.

Also, Jedah doesn't remotely act surprised at the revelation that just happened. Did he know Rudolf was trying to sabotage him? If so, what the fuck was the point of any of this roundabout subterfuge!? Also, when was it ever Alm's plan to kill Duma!? Jedah just takes it as a given that Alm's gonna do what Rudolf asks!

...So, we enter, and there are some clearly freaked out and confused guards doing their best to welcome the new king of Rigel, and I can't help but laugh.

Oh god. Here it comes. The moment when Alm talks to Sir Mycen and hears out his explanation for all of this insane madness.

And, for what it's worth, I love the vocal performance for Alm's rage at being lied to and used as a pawn by the man he thought was his grandfather.

Here goes...

Mycen's explanation is that Rudolf was one of the first people to figure out that Mila and Duma were dying, and going mad in the meantime.

And then when he saw that Alm was born with the brand, and there was apparently a prophecy that the brand bearers would save all of Valentia.

...A prophecy made by nobody they bothered to name, and a prophecy that never, ever, ever once reached either Alm's ears.

But yeah, he interpreted this “Save all of Valentia” thing as killing the dying gods before they take all of Valentia with them, and so he figured the Duma Faithful would not take kindly to his birth. So he...

…

…

…

…

…

…

Fuck you, game.

“So he concealed the news of your birth, and entrusted you to me in Zofia.”

He concealed the news of his son's birth?

A birth he had no reason to think he'd need to conceal until he saw the brand on the baby's hand?

A birth the Duma Faithful must therefore have fully known was coming?

The fuck did he do!? Go “Whoops! False alarm, everyone, turns out the queen's just put on some weight!” and then make her pad her gown for a few months!?

They don't say he faked Alm's death, they say he concealed news of the birth.

They make it sound like Rudolf somehow kept anyone from finding out that there was even a child in the first place, which is a fucking feat and a half to manage to pull out of your hat after nine months of unknowingly digging your own grave with contradictory evidence.

But please, Mycen.

Proceed.

Mycen: That day marked a change in him. He donned the mantle of one who would destroy the old world order – one who'd free men to live by their own power, even if they hated him for it. He knew such heresy would bring forth those who wished for his death. So for that death to come at the hands of his own son was... a mercy. He told me himself he could imagine no more peaceful end.

Alm: And what of my peace!?

Mycen: This is not the time for mourning or self-pity, boy.

FUCK YOU TO HELL AND BACK, MYCEN.

NONE OF THAT EXPLAINED WHY HE HAD TO RAISE HIS SON TO KILL HIM.

NONE OF THAT EXPLAINED FUCKING ANYTHING.

If he believed in that prophecy, why didn't he have Alm raised in secret in Rigel, and aware of who he was, training him for the day he would kill Duma?

If the reason he didn't try to kill Duma personally was because he genuinely believed only the prophesied would be able to do it... then why did he think he could kill Mila!?

Why is it that literally the best fucking plan this bastard could come up with for how to make sure his son would fulfill his destiny... was sending him to live in a peasant village with no resources and then sending his entire fucking armed forces off to try and kill him!?

WHY!?

Answer me, game! FUCKING EXPLAIN YOURSELF!

…

…

...Also, apparently Mycen joining isn't optional. Pity, I was hoping I might hear a “Fuck you, Mycen, no you can't come with me” from Alm.

Aaaaand now, after a melodramatic narration and an admittedly cool CG... it's saving time.

And I am fucking done with this for today.

This is garbage. This is barely an improvement at all over the nonsense in Gaiden.

What.

The actual.

Valflaming.

Valfuck.

...Stay safe, everyone.

[Acacia Sgt]

If I may, to give some semblance of actual interpretation, "conceal news of your birth" could instead mean the moment Alm's mother began to go into labor, it either happened in a private enough place for Rudolf to arrange for the birth to happen in secret, in order to check in peace if Alm or not would have a brand, or in the aftermath managed to make people think it was a false alarm and his wife wasn't actually going into labor. Pretend the moment of birth had yet to happen, not that the entire pregnancy was false to begin with.

Think like in One Piece, how Ace's mother managed to keep her baby in for far longer than nine months, in order to throw off the idea that she was going to give birth to Gol D. Roger's son.

Rudolf had reason to prepare to keep the moment of Alm's birth to be a private/concealed matter. Since he knew of the prophecy. It talked about brand-bearers being born. So he had to make sure. Berkut is older than Alm, no? It's likely he did a similar thing with Berkut's birth. Hide when it happened, check for brand, then announce it publicly the day had finally arrived when Berkut was born brand-less. For Alm he even had the benefit of having heard of Celica's birth, since they had no reason to hide the moment the event itself happened, not aware or caring of the prophecy. So Rudolf knew a child of Lima's was soon to be born when his own wife was also gonna do the same.

You know, I could see Rudolf pulling a Star Wars. When Padme was buried with a fake bloated belly to make people think she was still pregnant when she died, in order to hide the fact her children had actually already been born. Just because Mycen only said about the concealing the birth thing, doesn't mean Rudolf didn't made an announcement about Alm dying as well, to explain his absence. Or maybe it was some other explanation not involving death we just don't get to hear about.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Acacia Sgt