Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[ZeManaphy]

On 8/2/2021 at 9:22 PM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I'd counter that they weren't a good choice to "lead the Church" in the first place. And de facto, they weren't leading anything during the five-year timeskip. Seteth, for instance, not only has more experience with the Church, but has more administrative knowledge to his name. He'd honestly be a more qualified leader.

Anyway, the biggest disappointment is that, in a game where "your choices really matter", your character's ending is set for you. If you got the choice to lead all of Fodlan, but could elect to decline (say, to become a mercenary like Jeralt, or to support your chosen spouse in their area of interest), I'd be more cool with it.

That’s something you should discuss with Rhea, since it was her decision to make Byleth the head should anything happen to her. Seteth makes it very clear in SS that he does not feel qualified to lead. Also if Seteth became the head of Fódlan and the end of VW, it would be high unlikely that he would permit Claude to open up Fódlan’s borders due to his presumably strict upbringing of the Serios Faith, which as always remained isolationist. 
 

What are you talking about ? Your characters fates do change in this game depending on who or whether A-rank someone or not. 

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

That’s something you should discuss with Rhea, since it was her decision to make Byleth the head should anything happen to her. Seteth makes it very clear in SS that he does not feel qualified to lead. Also if Seteth became the head of Fódlan and the end of VW, it would be high unlikely that he would permit Claude to open up Fódlan’s borders due to his presumably strict upbringing of the Serios Faith, which as always remained isolationist.

Well the solution there would be to actually include Seteth in Verdant Wind and have Claude defeat bigotry with facts and logic. Seteth having a Jill arc in Verdant Wind would really help the thematic throughline, because as is Claude's talks of unity are just empty platitudes, since he never actually confronts the issue of why things are the way they are. He just defeats racism by suggesting the notion that people should stop being racist.

[Acacia Sgt]

16 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Just popping in to declare with unshakable certainty backed by righteous indignation that the unification of nation-states is generally undesirable and the division of nation-states is generally both morally and functionally superior.

Political science is fun. And while I'm here...

Eh, if we truly are to thrive as a society, I don't think promoting tribalism is the way to go. That just encourages the whole "They're different, therefore I hate them" mindset that is still so prevalent over here in this planet to this day and age.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Acacia Sgt

[Alastor15243]

34 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Eh, if we truly are to thrive as a society, I don't think promoting tribalism is the way to go. That just encourages the whole "They're different, therefore I hate them" mindset that is still so prevalent over here in this planet to this day and age.

It's not about division instead of unity, it's about checks and balances and localization of government.

[Acacia Sgt]

6 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's not about division instead of unity, it's about checks and balances and localization of government.

Ironically then, as someone who is not really part of the three powers, Byleth can work best as an impartial mediator as head of state of the united Fodlan but also not as entrenched with the Church as someone like say Seteth. Garreg Mach's location in the center of the continent was also chosen for the same reason all those centuries ago.

[ZeManaphy]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well the solution there would be to actually include Seteth in Verdant Wind and have Claude defeat bigotry with facts and logic. Seteth having a Jill arc in Verdant Wind would really help the thematic throughline, because as is Claude's talks of unity are just empty platitudes, since he never actually confronts the issue of why things are the way they are. He just defeats racism by suggesting the notion that people should stop being racist.

I can't comment on Jill because I never played Radiant Dawn, I disagree Claude is all talk and no show. He does use his Almyran heritage to assist in the war, notably using the Almyran Soldiers to lay siege on fort Merceus, as well as getting Nader and Holst to be friends. 

 

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Ironically then, as someone who is not really part of the three powers, Byleth can work best as an impartial mediator as head of state of the united Fodlan but also not as entrenched with the Church as someone like say Seteth. Garreg Mach's location in the center of the continent was also chosen for the same reason all those centuries ago.

I highly doubt Claude would trust Seteth the same way he trusts Byleth. The fact Byleth was raised out of the church's influence and the fact they are now the head of church and the nation is a huge opportunity for Claude. Byleth is open to change, especially after witnessing a foreigner. Because of the church and Rhea, Fodlan has remained isolated for centuries. Knowing that Seteth is a steadfast follower of Rhea and the Church for centuries, he would almost certainly adhere to Rhea's traditions if the he was in charge. Also keep in mind that Claude doesn’t trust the church like Edelgard. He's understands that Seteth is very conservative in his views, and almost certainly not attempt to convince Seteth otherwise due to the aforementioned nature.

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, ZeManaphy said:

I highly doubt Claude would trust Seteth the same way he trusts Byleth. The fact Byleth was raised out of the church's influence and the fact they are now the head of church and the nation is a huge opportunity for Claude. Byleth is open to change, especially after witnessing a foreigner. Because of the church and Rhea, Fodlan has remained isolated for centuries. Knowing that Seteth is a steadfast follower of Rhea and the Church for centuries, he would almost certainly adhere to Rhea's traditions if the he was in charge. Also keep in mind that Claude doesn’t trust the church like Edelgard. He's understands that Seteth is very conservative in his views, and almost certainly not attempt to convince Seteth otherwise due to the aforementioned nature.

That's what I meant. Byleth is not aligned to any country but also isn't really part of the Church.

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

I can't comment on Jill because I never played Radiant Dawn, I disagree Claude is all talk and no show. He does use his Almyran heritage to assist in the war, notably using the Almyran Soldiers to lay siege on fort Merceus, as well as getting Nader and Holst to be friends.

You're not wrong, but this one plot point is heavily undermined by it evidently not being needed at all given how Silver Snow goes down. It also just happens without any backlash at all. Claude just says the Almyrans are there to help and everyone is fine with it.

[lenticular]

8 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

One more question: what was your total playtime?

39:12. Though I will say that a. I tend to be a fairly slow player and b. I sometimes get distracted or wander away from the console while leaving it on, so I'm not sure you ought to read that much into my play times. For comparison, I have regular runs of Three Houses ranging from 98:10 to 203:30, depending on the difficulty I was playing on, how completionist I was being, how much I left the game running while I was doing something else, and so on. For further comparison, I also looked up my play times for other games in the series: Path of Radiance in 57:21 // Awakening in 64:33 // Birthright in 41:35 // Conquest in 35:25 // Shadows of Valentia in 53:12. (Those were the only ones I could check conveniently.)

[Sunwoo]

I feel like Claude outright saying his goal is to stop racism undermines the story a bit. Like ... if I had to compare him to PoR Ike, the racism angle is definitely weaker in 3H. Ike doesn't need to say he's gonna stop racism. He treats everyone around him equally and acts as a good example to those around him, inspiring them to do the same. He's also not the literal only person in the world who cares about laguz and beorc equality, he has Elincia and Sanaki who are also working on that path, and we see the backlashes that result from fighting for equality.

Claude, on the other hand, feels more like telling instead of showing, and it's like we're expected to believe racism just stopped because he said so. 3H really needed a playable character like Shinon, rather than the actual racists just being plot convenient nothing background characters.

[Alastor15243]

1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:

Claude, on the other hand, feels more like telling instead of showing, and it's like we're expected to believe racism just stopped because he said so. 3H really needed a playable character like Shinon, rather than the actual racists just being plot convenient nothing background characters.

Unfortunately, 3H is "Tell, don't show: the game". It feels like a really shitty highschool production of one of those Greek tragedies where they deliberately had literally everything interesting happen offscreen to save on sets and special effects.

[Sunwoo]

23 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Unfortunately, 3H is "Tell, don't show: the game". It feels like a really shitty highschool production of one of those Greek tragedies where they deliberately had literally everything interesting happen offscreen to save on sets and special effects.

True. It's like IS wanted to replicate the emotions that events in past games stirred up within players, but didn't understand in the present day why it worked in the first place.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Eh, if we truly are to thrive as a society, I don't think promoting tribalism is the way to go. That just encourages the whole "They're different, therefore I hate them" mindset that is still so prevalent over here in this planet to this day and age.

This is one of those tricky things. Hate and violence between people-groups certainly predated the modern concept of the nation-state. So I think it's a mistake to assume that countries based on a shared ethnic/religious/linguistic background are necessarily the source of such "othering" issues. At the same time, from an American perspective, the thought of countries defining themselves by ancestry is... I dunno, kinda icky? Not sure there's a good answer on the best way to constitute a sovereign state.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

It's not about division instead of unity, it's about checks and balances and localization of government.

At the risk of dragging this thread further into "Serious Discussion", I'll say that it's definitely possible for strong local and/or regional government to exist, even within a massive country. That's basically how modern federal states, like the United States or India, operate - policies and participation at the state and local levels still matter. The "United Fodlan" we see in VW and SS routes could be highly decentralized, with significant power left to regional nobles.

7 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

That’s something you should discuss with Rhea, since it was her decision to make Byleth the head should anything happen to her. Seteth makes it very clear in SS that he does not feel qualified to lead. Also if Seteth became the head of Fódlan and the end of VW, it would be high unlikely that he would permit Claude to open up Fódlan’s borders due to his presumably strict upbringing of the Serios Faith, which as always remained isolationist. 

And Teach never makes it clear whether they feel qualified to lead. As for the isolationism, while it's alluded to, it's never clearly spelled out. Even the very head of the Church, Rhea, was willing to take in Cyril as her child-laborer-slash-soldier. And by the end of VW, Seteth has found the Almyrans to be his allies against the Church's true enemies (the Empire, and the Agarthans). It's not at all obvious that he wouldn't be willing to cooperate with them post-war.

7 hours ago, ZeManaphy said:

What are you talking about ? Your characters fates do change in this game depending on who or whether A-rank someone or not. 

Point is, I wish you got more agency in controlling Teach's future. You know, Teach? The one character you're supposed to be making decisions for?

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well the solution there would be to actually include Seteth in Verdant Wind and have Claude defeat bigotry with facts and logic. Seteth having a Jill arc in Verdant Wind would really help the thematic throughline, because as is Claude's talks of unity are just empty platitudes, since he never actually confronts the issue of why things are the way they are. He just defeats racism by suggesting the notion that people should stop being racist.

It's very unfortunate that Lorenz's objections are just shut down by Judith, without ever being addressed. I think he would fit better in this particular role, as he represents more of the "traditional" aspects of the Alliance and its nobility.

As for Seteth, how's this for a scheme? If Claude finds out that he and Flayn are, essentially, aliens, he can use it to blackmail them into cooperating with his plans re: Almyra. Maybe not even with direct confrontation, but with coercive messages. After all, what would the people think, to find out that the supposedly nativist Church was led by immigrants all along?

1 hour ago, Sunwoo said:

Claude, on the other hand, feels more like telling instead of showing, and it's like we're expected to believe racism just stopped because he said so. 3H really needed a playable character like Shinon, rather than the actual racists just being plot convenient nothing background characters.

We do get some racists, though, in characters like Ingrid and Hilda. They're generally reformed by the end, though, unlike everyone's favorite racist drunk sniper uncle.

[Acacia Sgt]

9 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

This is one of those tricky things. Hate and violence between people-groups certainly predated the modern concept of the nation-state. So I think it's a mistake to assume that countries based on a shared ethnic/religious/linguistic background are necessarily the source of such "othering" issues. At the same time, from an American perspective, the thought of countries defining themselves by ancestry is... I dunno, kinda icky? Not sure there's a good answer on the best way to constitute a sovereign state.

The funny thing is that his argument means support to the dissolution of such an entity as the "United" States. After all, why foment a united body of government when all 50 states can just be their own nation-states? Why foment a single American identity when New Englanders, Californians, Dixies, Cascadians, Midwesterns, Hawaians, Appalachians, etc. can instead promote their own?

[Sunwoo]

44 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

We do get some racists, though, in characters like Ingrid and Hilda. They're generally reformed by the end, though, unlike everyone's favorite racist drunk sniper uncle.

I'm not sure if I'd count Ingrid, tbh. Ingrid is similar to Oboro in that their racism is a direct result of a severe traumatic event in their past. And both Ingrid and Oboro are aware that their beliefs are wrong and eventually overcome them, if you support them with Dedue and Nohrians.

Shinon and Jill and Lethe are better examples of racists. As far as we know, they don't have personal trauma involving laguz or beorc. Their hatred is something that was learned through society, with Jill and other Daeins being actively taught to hate laguz while Lethe and most Gallians are indignant about the beorc's past treatment of laguz, even if they hadn't personally suffered mistreatment, and Shinon just being an ass. Jill and Lethe are mostly able to overcome the worst aspects of their racism only through actually working with laguz and beorc, but they don't do it through only supports or one scene. It is a process that goes on for several chapters and is worth seeing the result of.

Don't remember enough about Hilda, tbh, but I don't think her racism towards Almyrans is really handled as well as Tellius handled Jill and Lethe. And Hilda is still portrayed in a "soft" manner, whereas Shinon is a legit jerkass to everyone but Rolf and stays that way, because that's just what he is. I will never forgive Heroes for whitewashing Shinon's character.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

51 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The funny thing is that his argument means support to the dissolution of such an entity as the "United" States. After all, why foment a united body of government when all 50 states can just be their own nation-states? Why foment a single American identity when New Englanders, Californians, Dixies, Cascadians, Midwesterns, Hawaians, Appalachians, etc. can instead promote their own?

None of the states, nor regions, would function as a "nation-state", though. Because Tennesseeans, for instance, don't constitute a "nation" in the same way that the Germans, the Koreans, or the Baloch people do. There's not enough shared history, or unity via factors like language or religion. While there are a variety of cultural trends in different parts of the United States, they're relatively loose and malleable. Plus, breaking up the country would likely create more problems than any it could solve (i.e. Nevada imposes a tariff on Utah, Maine declares war on New Hampshire, and wealthier Virginians refuse to aid poorer West Virginians).

For the record, I wasn't making an argument in favor of, or against, the nation-state as a means of political organization.

20 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

Don't remember enough about Hilda, tbh, but I don't think her racism towards Almyrans is really handled as well as Tellius handled Jill and Lethe. And Hilda is still portrayed in a "soft" manner, whereas Shinon is a legit jerkass to everyone but Rolf and stays that way, because that's just what he is. I will never forgive Heroes for whitewashing Shinon's character.

Hilda also doesn't have personal trauma re: Almyra; rather, she absorbs stereotypes about their people from her family members. It's presented rather subtly, and isn't as blatant a "heel-face turn" as Jill. Still, I think it contributes to her character's dynamism - it's an aspect that isn't drawn from her primary trait of laziness (which is itself borne out of discomfort from having the expectations of others imposed upon her).

Agreed, though, that no one in Three Houses is as big a jerkass as Shinon. Who, for the record, gets along pretty well with Gatrie, too.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

 

 The "United Fodlan" we see in VW and SS routes could be highly decentralized, with significant power left to regional nobles.

 

That sounds pretty much like exactly how the continent is united pre-game under the soft power of the church.

Quote

As for Seteth, how's this for a scheme? If Claude finds out that he and Flayn are, essentially, aliens, he can use it to blackmail them into cooperating with his plans re: Almyra. Maybe not even with direct confrontation, but with coercive messages. After all, what would the people think, to find out that the supposedly nativist Church was led by immigrants all along?

Having "Claude: The Schemer" actually scheming would be very much appreciated, so I'd be all in on that plot point.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

1 minute ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

None of the states, nor regions, would function as a "nation-state", though. Because Tennesseeans, for instance, don't constitute a "nation" in the same way that the Germans, the Koreans, or the Baloch people do. There's not enough shared history, or unity via factors like language or religion. While there are a variety of cultural trends in different parts of the United States, they're relatively loose and malleable. Plus, breaking up the country would likely create more problems than any it could solve (i.e. Nevada imposes a tariff on Utah, Maine declares war on New Hampshire, and wealthier Virginians refuse to aid poorer West Virginians).

For the record, I wasn't making an argument in favor of, or against, the nation-state as a means of political organization.

Yeah, I was just bringing up the way his statement could be taken as. And that's exactly why it's not really the way to go or expect it will work. In any case, if the US would ever split up, yeah, it wouldn't be as 50 individual countries. The number would be much lower. Various states who do have some things in common with each other joining up.

[ZeManaphy]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

And Teach never makes it clear whether they feel qualified to lead. As for the isolationism, while it's alluded to, it's never clearly spelled out. Even the very head of the Church, Rhea, was willing to take in Cyril as her child-laborer-slash-soldier. And by the end of VW, Seteth has found the Almyrans to be his allies against the Church's true enemies (the Empire, and the Agarthans). It's not at all obvious that he wouldn't be willing to cooperate with them post-war.

Fodlan's Locket is a fortress that was built by Faerghus and Leicester to keep the Almyrans out. Its definitely clear that Fodlan wanted to keep foreigners out. Also so as Byleth at the end of Verdant Wind, and Byleth was literally blessed by the goddess, which in the Church's eyes, is more than enough to be leader. 

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Point is, I wish you got more agency in controlling Teach's future. You know, Teach? The one character you're supposed to be making decisions for?

You do. The decision of which house they choose to teach, students to recruit, what classes to advance for themselves and units, all of which would determine the fate of the continent. This is the one of most flexible Fire Emblem games when deciding classes, unit recruitment, how to beat maps, and different paths. Fodlan is land at peace with 4 distinct powers governing the nation, each with unique history and culture, and each student has a unique history to reflect the culture of their nation of origin. Why be in a such a rush to do battles when the continent is at peace? Nothing urgent is going on. In fact, why don't you go the library and read about all of Fodlan's history and traditions. This is not like Fates, Awakening, or Echoes where war has already started  and we are unwillingly dragged into it. Three Houses is a game where the player is rewarded for putting in effort for taking their time and getting to know peers as best as possible. And frankly, that's a good thing. By taking your time to know each student indiviually and participating with activities like Meal Sharing and Tea Parties, you get to build supports with your allies, and that also includes students outside the house you are teaching. Fatigue as a mechanic exists to ensure that player gives their default students equal attention. In previous games, the player could just bench a character if they did not want to use them. But that’s not the case in Three Houses the player is actively encouraged to use all their units by making their students in blank slates. You are given the free ability to tailor your students in any way you like, encouraging you to give each student a unique role in your army. Sure previous games, offered reclassing, but in those games, units would already come with a certain rank in weapons and reclassing meant going back to basic weapon levels if the class was entirely different. As a result, most players would stick to the base class and if they reclassed, it would often be a class that allowed the previous type of weapon to be used. Three Houses encourages reclassing by not only giving weekly tutoring sessions, but by also removing weapon locks given in classes, making it easier for players to reach weapon ranks to pass certification exams. Even personal weapons, specifically Heroe's Relics aren't character locked. In Three Houses, If the player really puts an effort to know a student by giving them gifts or returning lost items, they become closer, and if the support level is increased, it becomes easier to recruit them. The the big reason why I love Tea Parties. By paying close attention to supports, reactions to favorite gifts, and  the kind of items you return to students shows their personalities, and Tea Parties are the ultimate test. By executing a perfect tea party, you are rewarded charm for both you and the participant. You could recruit students by reaching the appropriate skill levels and stats, but that's not practical with the limited months. Alternatively, you could not recruit anyone at all and just use the default students, but you miss on bonuses like supports and paralouges for not taking time. All this points to the main themes of this game, which is: How beautiful and cherished life is, only for those cherished moments to go away so quickly and romance, but not in good way. The poem's first part refers to how wonderful and tranquil the academy days were, only for war to come out of the blue and change everything. The first part of the game does not vary because it does not need to. Fodlan is land at peace with no war going on, only for war to be declared later on. To think that we were once all friends- now we are enemies, fighting for what we believe is right- this happened so fast- I miss the academy days so much. It  also goes back to the romance part as well. We  became, friends but that may not be a good thing. It makes fighting in war even harder. On a player's first playthrough, a player is high unlikely to recruit every student, meaning that they are forced to fight against opposing students. And when they get killed, they are supposed to feel immense sadness. Remember, these aren't just people we have met for the first time or some random NPC- these were friends we used to eat and study with. New Game + encourages the player to avoid the same fate of students by making it easy to recruit the students you taught previously. You can even buys skill levels back in order to save time teaching in order to try new builds; for example you did Falcon Knight Ingrid last time, but wanna do Dark Flier? You can save time by relearning the required Flying Levels so you can spend more time with Reason and Faith tutoring. Crest Items are also available, allowing you to bestow any crest on anyone, meaning you can full advantage of the Heroes Relics with anyone. Three Houses maps are reused a lot, but since every run feature different runs as well as different classes, no attempt of the map is the same, And considering each lord, has a different goal for Fodlan, it means each story and outcome is different. And lastly also The theme " Edge of Dawn " explains the tragedy of Three Houses, from the point of Edelgard who declares war despite wishing to stay in the peaceful days of the academy. 

TLDR: If People are trying play Three Houses like previous titles where you just take a short break to repack on items or fix weapons and want to go from battle to battle with little breaks are not obviously not going to enjoy Three Houses because its a game that rewards you for putting time for knowing students, doing activities, and being invested and taking as much time as possible to learn about the world of Fodlan and its history and current political issues. 

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Unfortunately, 3H is "Tell, don't show: the game". It feels like a really shitty highschool production of one of those Greek tragedies where they deliberately had literally everything interesting happen offscreen to save on sets and special effects.

Actually, there's very good reason why many Shakespeare and Greek plays have their moments offscreen. In Romeo and Juliet for example, they never tell us the reason why the two families are fighting, because if they did, we would choose sides, which Shakespeare does not want us to do. In the same story, Romeo's ex girlfriend Rosalin breaks up with him and he's heartbroken, despite Rosalin and the break up happening off screen and Rosalin never making an actual appearance in the play, it still an important backstory because it establishes Romeo as teen who desperately wants romance. 

In a similar vein, we never see the Tragedy of Duscur or people like Glenn or King Lambert in the game but they are nonetheless important because they establish Dimitri's PTSD and the cycle of vengeance he goes through in part 2 as well as his refusal justify killing for one's ideals, since he was a victim of the scheme for another's selfish gain; as well as making him a foil to Edelgard. It also reveals that the kingdom is not united on supporting the royal family which becomes critical when several kingdom lords defect to the empire and side with Cornelia during non-CF part 2.

3 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

The funny thing is that his argument means support to the dissolution of such an entity as the "United" States. After all, why foment a united body of government when all 50 states can just be their own nation-states? Why foment a single American identity when New Englanders, Californians, Dixies, Cascadians, Midwesterns, Hawaians, Appalachians, etc. can instead promote their own?

The US did actually try letting each state govern by itself as many states did not want a central government because they feared it would be another " King George " issue. But that did not work out at all, hence why a central government was needed to be formed.

EDIT: One last thing I forgot to quote, POR and RD don't technically deal with Racism. Racism is prejudice against one's own species. Its clearly established from what I've heard that Beorcs and Laguz are different species. What its really dealing with is Speciesism, or the philosophies of treating animals differently.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ZeManaphy

[Alastor15243]

9 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

EDIT: One last thing I forgot to quote, POR and RD don't technically deal with Racism. Racism is prejudice against one's own species. Its clearly established from what I've heard that Beorcs and Laguz are different species. What its really dealing with is Speciesism, or the philosophies of treating animals differently.

A species is defined as a group of living organisms capable of producing fertile offspring together. Branded are not sterile, they can still have children of their own. Therefore beorc and laguz are both the same species, just as mutants are still human in X-Men.

[ZeManaphy]

4 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

A species is defined as a group of living organisms capable of producing fertile offspring together. Branded are not sterile, they can still have children of their own. Therefore beorc and laguz are both the same species, just as mutants are still human in X-Men.

Alright fine, thanks for the clarification. But the same time though, that would also mean that House Cats are the same Servals because they can produce fertile hybrids  called the Savannah cat. And that’s clearly not the case.

Edited August 5, 2021 by ZeManaphy

[Acacia Sgt]

In my opinion, racism allegories fail when one side is clearly more different than just the superficial level. So at least TH did it more right by having Almyrans be just about the same as Fodlanians, unlike Laguz being a whole class of their own thanks to their shapeshifting abilities, longer lifespans, and other actual differences.

[ZeManaphy]

24 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

A species is defined as a group of living organisms capable of producing fertile offspring together. Branded are not sterile, they can still have children of their own. Therefore beorc and laguz are both the same species, just as mutants are still human in X-Men.

Actually, looking into a bit more, saying that Laguz and Beorc are the same species is like saying the Asian Leopard Cat and Domestic House Cat are the same species and they clearly aren't despite being able to cross and create a fertile hybrid cat known as a Bengal. The definition you gave me is unclear- not to mention that definition could be refering to the fact that indiviuals of the same organism can create offspring, not specifically different animals. Or to put in example, your definition could be referring to how two Indian Peafowl can create more Indian Peafowl, instead of Indian Peacock x Green Peahen can create fertile offspring despite being different species. And  we know for fact that Beorc and Laguz are visually and physically distinct for each other, the latter can transform and have increased life spans, so calling them the same organism, or same species in this case it out of the question! 

Edited August 5, 2021 by ZeManaphy

[Acacia Sgt]

Indeed. Both Beorc and Laguz share the same evolutionary ancestor, the Zumanma, but the games do tell us they evolved differently into Beorc and Laguz.

[Interdimensional Observer]

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not sure there's a good answer on the best way to constitute a sovereign state.

To back to the old quip "If men were angels, no government would be necessary". And if men were angels, any government could work, because angels are sinless, faultless creatures ignore Lucifer who would never engage in evil. From autocracy to anarchy, angels could make it all function flawlessly. Humans being human, which is to say flawed, all governments can become dysfunctional and corrupt, because the ideas and rules of government we put on paper can't magically come alive and give violators paper cuts so painful they'd never commit wrong ever again.

 

5 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The "United Fodlan" we see in VW and SS routes could be highly decentralized, with significant power left to regional nobles.

Smells like the Holy Roman Empire to me.

• Austria, Bohemia, Saxony, Bavaria, Hanover, Brandenburg-Prussia and the Palatinate (pre-30 Years' War) were all the major players. These were all large enough to potential survive as countries independent of the Holy Roman Empire, and regularly attracted political marriages from the other rulers of Europe. 
• None of the religious Electors, Imperial Knights, Free and Imperial Cities, or less nobles, had the potential international influence, and the three archbishop Electors aside, none of them individually could have much say in Imperial politics either.
  • Nonetheless, if they worked in groups, the many petty polities could exert some influence in the Reichstag.
  • And each micro-state was in principle autonomous, enough at least that intellectual freedom was relatively plentiful in the Holy Roman Empire. Since a brainiac whose ideas were controversial to the authorities in one territory, could hop the feudal border in some hopes of a more tolerant ruler on the other side.

 

4 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Don't remember enough about Hilda, tbh, but I don't think her racism towards Almyrans is really handled as well as Tellius handled Jill and Lethe. And Hilda is still portrayed in a "soft" manner, whereas Shinon is a legit jerkass to everyone but Rolf and stays that way, because that's just what he is. I will never forgive Heroes for whitewashing Shinon's character.

Hearing this argument on racism in games reminds me I've been reading some reviews of The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles. The game is made by Japanese developers, so it is modern Japanese willingly portraying fictional versions of themselves. And it is historically accurate that the Victorian era in Britain was very racist- they had to justify the colonial mission somehow.

Nonetheless, critics of the game have expressed a dislike for the amounts of racism in the game. Critics might have a point when they say "A bunch of aspects of this game are unrealistic and silly, so why keep to realism with the racism?" and "The Japanese characters don't fight back against the racism hurled their way enough". I wouldn't know, as I haven't played the game myself and have no interest in doing so. 

My point being, maybe portraying "hard" racism, is bound to turn some people off from a game, and hence developers would shy away from including it in playable/"hero" characters.

 

40 minutes ago, ZeManaphy said:

so calling them the same organism, or same species in this case it out of the question! 

No, it isn't.

Japanese video games commonly want to say racism is bad, but few of them ever want to be so serious and controversial as to make a serious tackling of the issues of race and ethnicity. Thus, fantasy species become a wafer-thin cover for an unserious, unrealistic, and inoffensive way of featuring racism and saying it's bad and the world should stop having it.

Discrimination against other species, with the indirect exception of environmentalism (or veganism) I suppose, which JRPGs also tend to feature in some magical fantasy form, is not relevant IRL. JRPGs and the ilk want for whatever reasons to speak of relevant issues. But, the writers, for a multitude of reasons I can speculate on, keep the treatment mild and not hit too close to reality.

If it quacks like racism, it's racism. But this is a work of fiction, and...

Better safe than sorry! B/c lawsuits = bankruptcy.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Interdimensional Observer