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Thracia Day 25: Chapter 16A

Alright, let's do this. This map really doesn't look like it's gonna be that much of a pain except for all the cool shit it's gonna be a bit annoying to steal. Thankfully, sleep swords have 20 weight, probably to minimize the risk of killing the people you're trying to sedate and defeating the whole purpose. Doesn't mean much for people with high con, of course.

I will be making things a bit easier on me by stealing one of the sleep swords with a pure watered Tina, and then putting Eyrios (here called Ilios) to sleep.

Unless I'm missing something, the strategy Kempf is ordered to do is insanely idiotic. Apparently his men won't move... at all? Just staying in range of the ballistae? But then I can just make the ballistae run out of ammo without being punished for it. The only way to make them move out of the ballistae's range is to... talk to him with Olwen? Which seems insanely suicidal without equipping Dire Thunder (to use her Vantage) and getting lucky with the ballistae and her Dire Thunder hits, or I suppose rescue staffing her.

Why would I do that? If they don't move, I can drain the ballistae with impunity before picking them off one by one. And even if I weren't going to milk the ballistae, why the hell won't they attack me once I'm in the ballistae's range!? They won't even defend themselves unless I walk up to them? They're literally just handing me victory on a silver platter! Why would I make them move except to do things faster on a ranked run or something? But even then, if I wanted to do a ranked run, and if I were willing to use valuable staves to get past Kempf's blockade quickly, surely the thing to do would be to steal the important shit from Ilios's group and then just... warp skip the rest? This isn't an escape chapter, Leif can seize no problem!

I really don't get how this plan is supposed to be a good idea for Kempf in any way.

Anyway, I start out by “ensorceling” Salem and putting Ilios to sleep. I want his shit, and I don't want him sniping at my army with my bolting. Then I have Karin and Dean fly over to intercept the villages and get the bandits. Karin goes for the east one, while I have Dean, who has enough move, fly right into the eye of the ballista storm so he can hit-and-run the bandit trying to take the second village and then return safely to a spot within 2 spaces of the ballistician. He's not gonna kill it though. I want more free Lithis exp. Not that he's bad anymore, certainly not after promotion, but there's not much else this little nub of a Paragon Sword is good for now that Mareeta's fought with it.

Turn two, Tina successfully steals a sleep staff on her first try after being “ensorceled”, so, awesome.

I decided to give Leif the kingmaker, because it's gonna help a lot to give that to someone I'm using every map.

Anyway, the cavalry coming from behind is gonna be a hugely plentiful supply of easy-pickings javelins and rapiers, and I intend to stock up.

...Wait. Shit. They're cavalry. Nevermind.

Hahahaha! Cutscenes still happen even when the people taking part are asleep! Apparently capturing stops it but sleep doesn't.

So the guy I stole a sleep sword from... took Ilios's master sword from his sleeping body. Well, at least nobody else can use his shit. I'm still gonna try and get that master sword. It's definitely worth one use of the sleep sword.

Alright, I've decided Lithis is good enough that he really doesn't need to milk this first ballista. Plus, pirates are coming, and so the “island” village isn't as safe as I thought. I'm going to have Dean fly over and secure it, and get a move on stealing these sleep swords.

Thankfully, I have exactly two people capable of wielding them: Leif and Fergus. So as long as Tanya dodgetanks the sleep sword when baiting them, even if they all charge at once (not remotely desirable, but my army is large enough that I think I can handle it), I should be able to sleep both of them in one turn and then deal with the rest.

Mission accomplished! Sleep swords (well, sleep edges) acquired, along with the master sword!And then the rest of my army kicked everyone else's ass by the end of the turn.

I tried to visit the village with Dean, but apparently only Leif can visit him, hence the importance of the village with the bridge key. I mean, assuming I didn't bring three lockpick users.

Oh sweet! Lara leveled up move! Now I really, really hope that Kempf's forces genuinely don't move when you get in their range, or Lithis might be fucked!

Nope! They really don't move! Awesome! The profound irony that Kempf is going to die because he isn't “foolish” enough to disobey direct orders is hilarious to me.

Actually, Lithis is tough enough to tank multiple at once even in the worst case scenario, so... why not? Let's do it! I wanna kill a little time to face those reinforcements, since apparently the leader of them (who could have been recruited in B path, apparently?) will come back later if you don't take him out.

And the turn after deciding that, Lithis is officially too heavy for cavalry to rescue without speed penalties! He can steal 10-weight items now!

...This must absolutely be killing Kempf.

...Not as much as it will be killing him, but still.

I nearly had to restart because I mixed up the spawn turn and unit numbers on the pegasus reinforcements, and like an idiot I didn't bother checking to see if I got it wrong, just assuming they must have not spawned because I wasn't nearby (since they don't attack until you approach them). Karin luckily managed to dodge well enough, even with a broken steel lance after she fought back with its remaining uses.

HOLY SHIT, I JUST CHECKED THIS GUY'S INVENTORY MORE CLOSELY... MASTER LANCES ARE 1-2 RANGE!?

...Oh god it's so tempting to use a sleep staff use to get it...

...Fuck it, I wound up doing it, because he was also equipping the damned thing, and I didn't want to endanger a run where Lithis got two con and Lara got a fucking move level up. So now I get a killing edge and a master lance! I could have used sleep swords, but... without having Nanna nearby (She's on the other end of the map, canto-healing Lithis periodically as he drains three ballistae at once), I couldn't get a hit rate I was comfortable gambling with.

Also, in the process, I promoted Orsin a little early, mostly because that last level was taking a while and also I wanted to free up inventory space given all the half-broken hand axes he's carrying around from chapter 14.

You know, it really looks like Nanna's gonna be the one who makes the most use out of those rewarp staves. She's almost at A rank staves, and she's got surprisingly good stats for a healer! 9 defense, for one, which the Dain scroll can easily make even better. But that's hardly even relevant, because she has 20 speed and 20 luck, giving her 60 base avoid with anything 6 or lighter!

Kempf: Um... Sir? SIR? THE BALLISTAE ARE OUT OF AMMO! I THINK THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD TIME TO CHARGE! SIR!?

Commander: No excuses, Kempf!

Kempf: BUT SIR, THEY'RE JUST WALKING IN AND CASUALLY CAPTURING US! TAKING ALL OF OUR WEAPONS!

Commander: Shut up, Kempf!

Kempf: THAT CALLION GUY JUST LEVELED UP MAGIC, DEFENSE AND MOVE! WE ARE FIGHTING AN ELEVEN MOVE PALADIN BECAUSE OF YOUR NEGLECT, SIR!

Commander: I don't wanna hear another word!

Kempf: SIR, I AM GOING TO DIE!

Commander: You say that like it's a bad thing!

Kempf: AAAAAAAAAGHHHH!

Right, so, now I have 3 more battle axes, 3 more javelins, 3 more longbows, 2 more thunder tomes, aaaaand a thoron! And now I get to give Olwen her much-deserved vengeance against this fucker!

...Unfortunately, she doesn't crit him, so I have to finish him off with Leif. He also doesn't seem to have any special combat dialogue with Olwen, which is... disappointing. Looks like it's just that talk option that I'd rather steal from him than see.

And I did all of that without once making the bishop use physic on anyone! So now I have another 5 uses of physic! Excellent. Now to get that village with Leif, kill the boss, and get out of here!

Oh dear. Looks like not only is this priest guy in the village a really weak staff user, he's also an unironic disciple of Deadbeat Father Claude. Looks like someone's got the hots for the bench!

...But he does have one of the last few scrolls, the Bragi scroll, which boosts luck by 30% and magic by 10%, at the cost of reducing strength by 10%. Not the best, but any way to boost magic is welcome, especially for anyone who's already well set for strength.

Callion finished the boss, and got ANOTHER mag, def, mov level up. Callion has 12 move now.

The result of this is fun and all, but the urge to do shit like this is part of why I don't like these equippable growth-boosting items in the games that have them. It really rewards putting a ton of these things on one specific unit at a time to train them for insane rewards. Callion is currently a level 8 paladin with 48 HP, 20 strength, 8 magic, 20 skill, 20 speed, 20 luck, 16 defense, 18 con, and 12 move. He's an unstoppable juggernaut thanks to these scrolls, and while in a way it's cool, I find the playstyle that gets these kinds of stats less rewarding. So why do I do it? Well, because I hate the ever-present idea that I'm stunting my units' growth by using them improperly. Basically, it gives this constant feeling of missed opportunity over playing the game normally, and that... yeah, I don't like it, and I'm glad this concept didn't catch on much past this game. Personally, I hate it when the game adds in tedious ways to make your characters stronger.

Anyway, the map is over. I could've sworn this was where Leif promotes, but apparently not. Well, he's maxed out, so whenever it happens, I'll be ready to start training him again.

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3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Oh dear. Looks like not only is this priest guy in the village a really weak staff user, he's also an unironic disciple of Deadbeat Father Claude. Looks like someone's got the hots for the bench!

He does start with A staff rank at base, which has its uses...

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

The result of this is fun and all, but the urge to do shit like this is part of why I don't like these equippable growth-boosting items in the games that have them. It really rewards putting a ton of these things on one specific unit at a time to train them for insane rewards. Callion is currently a level 8 paladin with 48 HP, 20 strength, 8 magic, 20 skill, 20 speed, 20 luck, 16 defense, 18 con, and 12 move. He's an unstoppable juggernaut thanks to these scrolls, and while in a way it's cool, I find the playstyle that gets these kinds of stats less rewarding. So why do I do it? Well, because I hate the ever-present idea that I'm stunting my units' growth by using them improperly. Basically, it gives this constant feeling of missed opportunity over playing the game normally, and that... yeah, I don't like it, and I'm glad this concept didn't catch on much past this game. Personally, I hate it when the game adds in tedious ways to make your characters stronger.

Its a bit more interesting on an Ironman run, where there is a bit more of a balancing act between when you pass them around to prevent crits, or concentrate them to train specific units. Plus 12 move is very lucky as even with the Dain scroll he only has a 6% growth (unless you gave him the Leg ring... I honestly don't remember)

 

Side note on my ironman, had a big oof on 16B. Not used to checking enemy skills on Thracia, and the swordmaster with the Luna scroll managed to proc both Adept and Luna, so RIP Dean. At least I got

PKfh_CFGuslUcIz22c5JBwBOCg47jJwN-UZPSEIE

as a consolation.

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2 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Its a bit more interesting on an Ironman run, where there is a bit more of a balancing act between when you pass them around to prevent crits, or concentrate them to train specific units. Plus 12 move is very lucky as even with the Dain scroll he only has a 6% growth (unless you gave him the Leg ring... I honestly don't remember)

I did not. I still have the leg ring. I'm kind of indecisive about who to give it to. I'll probably give it to Leif, I'm just concerned since he already has 8 move, and I don't know what the cap is. Also, RIP Dean.

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5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

So the guy I stole a sleep sword from... took Ilios's master sword from his sleeping body. Well, at least nobody else can use his shit.

I love this game XD

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

The result of this is fun and all, but the urge to do shit like this is part of why I don't like these equippable growth-boosting items in the games that have them. It really rewards putting a ton of these things on one specific unit at a time to train them for insane rewards. Callion is currently a level 8 paladin with 48 HP, 20 strength, 8 magic, 20 skill, 20 speed, 20 luck, 16 defense, 18 con, and 12 move. He's an unstoppable juggernaut thanks to these scrolls, and while in a way it's cool, I find the playstyle that gets these kinds of stats less rewarding. So why do I do it? Well, because I hate the ever-present idea that I'm stunting my units' growth by using them improperly. Basically, it gives this constant feeling of missed opportunity over playing the game normally, and that... yeah, I don't like it, and I'm glad this concept didn't catch on much past this game. Personally, I hate it when the game adds in tedious ways to make your characters stronger.

I get what you're saying, but I still kind of wish growth influencing items were more of a thing in the series. Just so you can have  more control over how your units turn out. Maybe if you could only equip one at a time (and that meant you couldn't equip shields or rings) it would balance out.

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5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

and I'm glad this concept didn't catch on much past this game.

But then you won't get stuff like those 9 MoV Mages (Don't forget to add + 3 to dismounted units)

hHTunG2.png

or best Myrmidon/Pegasi/Mage Karin

R6H4uYG.png

Also, chapter 16A is one of those chapters that punish efficient play. IIrc i was able to finish the Map before the enemy reinforcements arrived, and it's thanks to the net that i knew even of that enemy reinforements boss with some skill Manual.

While i enjoyed the map, i was pretty pissed off i had to wait for those reinforcements.

17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I get what you're saying, but I still kind of wish growth influencing items were more of a thing in the series. Just so you can have  more control over how your units turn out.

You can kinda do that though, by choosing what classes the units are in, since in modernFE classes influence growths.

And Three houses gives you alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of control, down to the weapon ranks and skills.

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26 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

But then you won't get stuff like those 9 MoV Mages (Don't forget to add + 3 to dismounted units)

hHTunG2.png

or best Myrmidon/Pegasi/Mage Karin

R6H4uYG.png

Also, chapter 16A is one of those chapters that punish efficient play. IIrc i was able to finish the Map before the enemy reinforcements arrived, and it's thanks to the net that i knew even of that enemy reinforements boss with some skill Manual.

While i enjoyed the map, i was pretty pissed off i had to wait for those reinforcements.

You can kinda do that though, by choosing what classes the units are in, since in modernFE classes influence growths.

And Three houses gives you alooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot of control, down to the weapon ranks and skills.

Yeah, and that's something I like about it.

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23 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

Also, chapter 16A is one of those chapters that punish efficient play. IIrc i was able to finish the Map before the enemy reinforcements arrived, and it's thanks to the net that i knew even of that enemy reinforements boss with some skill Manual.

It's Nihil. Aka a joke of a skill, useful only in a tiny handful of niche situations.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I get what you're saying, but I still kind of wish growth influencing items were more of a thing in the series. Just so you can have  more control over how your units turn out. Maybe if you could only equip one at a time (and that meant you couldn't equip shields or rings) it would balance out.

So you want more games to have Path of Radiance style bands. Then again the bands may have too little impact on growths.

 

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12 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

So you want more games to have Path of Radiance style bands. Then again the bands may have too little impact on growths.

 

Isn't that something that only appears on a second playthrough? I've only played Path of Radiance once so I don't really remember them.

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^ Yes, they only appear after beaten the game once.

 

Also nihil does not do what it says, ignoring all enemy's skills?

If so, the skill's description in the forum is really poorly. 

Would be still good enough against all the great shield bosses and in the final map. 

Elf is a pain in the ass to deal with unless you can sleep or silence her. 

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Hey, thought I'd just take a bit to ask you guys what you think how how this project is going so far. How are you liking it? Is there anything I haven't been talking much about that you'd like to hear me discuss? Is there any way you feel my daily notes are lacking?

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Thracia Day 26: Chapter 17A

Fun fact that I just remembered I never mentioned: this seems to be the only game in the series where your current HP increases with your max HP on level up. No free heal exp on people who just leveled up anymore. It's curious that this game chose to do that and no other game in the series did. I can't even begin to decide which I like better. I do feel this one kind of makes more sense though.

Anyway, onto Chapter 17. Judging by the guide, this map is going to be an absolute pain. I have ten turns to complete this map before Saias shows up and completely fucks up my shit with his sleep staff and his 18 magic. Not even Asbel has 18 magic yet. So basically nobody except Leif is safe. Apparently this game is merciful enough that no status staff user will ever target Leif, and he's immune to the sleep sword and things like that, so that enemies can't instantly softlock your game on any seize or escape map. Regardless, this means I need to get this map done in 10 turns if I don't want shit to royally hit the fan with a potentially attempt-ending curveball really late into the map.

This is a problem, because 1: the bridge to reach the gate doesn't appear until after turn 10, and 2: there are ballistae guarding the river, so I need to be very careful about how I ferry Leif and Callion across it.

But also, there's a ton of cool shit I need to get my hands on in this chapter, including two warp staves, one I need to get from a village and one I need to steal. In addition, there's a girl who can only be recruited by talking to her with Karin and then capturing her. And she's a pegasus knight, so I have to knock her out first. And I really, really want her, because she has a wind sword, which in this game boosts your speed by 5 when you equip it, making it easily the best magic sword type in the game, and depending on what the game throws at me, could be absolutely necessary for doubling some enemies (that or using Forseti). Her stats aren't fantastic for this late in the game, so I probably won't be using her specifically, except when I just need someone to be a flier. Like, say, for ferrying characters across the river here.

...Oh my god.

This exchange.

This fucking exchange.

Nicolov's Superior: I see you have yet to deal with the rebels, Nicolov. Explain yourself!

Nicolov: Ah... Kempf's bravado got the better of him, and he broke rank for his own personal glory. He ruined our chance to halt the rebel's advance... You have my sincerest apologies!

PFFFFFHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

NICOLOV YOU FUCKING LIAR!

This one line is either complete garbage or absolute brilliance. Either the game somehow doesn't even have alternate dialogue for the incredibly likely outcome that you either didn't have Olwen or didn't choose to make Kempf charge... or this is actually, deliberately supposed to be Nicolov being an incompetent, buck-passing, lying sack of shit. Which I would absolutely love to be true.

Think about it.

Kempf got killed due to faithfully following Nicolov's utterly stupid orders. Nicolov then immediately threw Kempf under the bus by lying to Nicolov's immediate superior, telling him Kempf died flouting Nicolov's orders, rather than admit he died because he obeyed them! Holy shit... if this is intentional, then it means that Kempf died under the exact kind of glory-hungry, cowardly, never-my-fault, Miles Gloriosus leadership that he himself was infamous for! That incompetent, childish asshole died because he was put under the command of an even more incompetent and childish asshole.

I love it, game.

Please don't let this turn out to be an accident.

Anyway, let's get moving.

Outrageously disappointingly, the leg ring item use is the most anticlimactic and stupid thing ever. It shows the map animation level up screen, except since move isn't on that window, it shows nothing, then shows the cheap post-level-up “move increased” window, as if the entire concept of increasing movement was a damned last-minute addition. But even if it was, surely you didn't have to show the blank “you got nothing” stat increase screen for the leg ring! This is just completely silent awkwardness!

Oh shit. Yeah, I suspected this would be the case, but the game just confirmed that the guy with the warp staff knows how to use it. And since this game gives you almost no deployment control (how the fuck did it take them six games to figure out that was a good feature?), I can't do any first-turn strats to capture the guy with Dean unless I warp. I initially wanted to avoid doing that, but now that I know that the guy's probably going to waste a warp staff use anyway, I might as well use a staff use of mine to get his intact, along with all of his other shit, like the fortify staff and the Fenrir tome.

While I like that the game tells you what broken staves' names are so you don't hammerne the wrong thing, I do wish they also still told you what their weapon rank is and everything. I need to repair the sleep staff to recruit this pegasus knight in a timely fashion, and I wish I didn't have to go online to look up what rank it is.

...Unfortunately, looks like Dean is just barely not fast enough to double the guy while capturing, which means he can't capture him without an extremely unlikely critical hit. Unless I get him to use Fenrir, which I'm gonna have to do.

That worked. He can just barely kill the guy in four hits while capturing, so I secured everything he had except one use of his Fenrir tome. This should prompt the fliers to advance, so I'll have to take care of them quickly, open up a way to Misha, and then talk to her with Karin before putting her to sleep.

It occurs to me, in the mess of trying to figure out how to quickly get the sleep staff repaired and somebody ensorceled to use it, that once one of my flame swords runs low on uses (hell, probably even before), I should give it to Nanna so that she can constantly have a +5 to her magic for healing purposes.

Alright, I got her, but unfortunately I only have five turns left before shit starts hitting the fan, so I've gotta hustle. I don't think I have much of a chance of making it by air, so I think I may wind up just warp-skipping this with Callion and Leif.

Fuck it, I'm getting 6 warp staff uses here anyway, and this level is a pain in the ass I really wanna finish tonight (time has been absolutely flying today), so yeah, I'll do that.

...But I'll have to do it on my next attempt, because Safiya got captured, and I can't steal her shit back without using another sleep staff use because she was captured by a pegasus knight.

And after several unlucky forced resets due to bad RNG with either Safiya's warp or Dean capturing Moore, I finally managed to get it done again. And this time, Nanna has a fire sword equipped, so she doesn't even need to be powered up to put Misha to sleep.

...And I fucked up again. I forgot to talk to Misha before capturing her. FUUUUUUUCK. Well, at least I know what I'm doing now.

Turn 1: Send in Dean, with Nanna and Leif aura-boosting him, and rescue-drop Safiya over, using Eda so that she can also aura-boost him. Use Leif's movement ring.

Turn 2: Heal Dean if he was hit by Fenrir, warp him right into the mage's face, hope he captures the guy, retreat the four spaces back he can go while weighed down, and have Karin do the ol' fleece-and-release.

Meanwhile: Have Callion kill all the armor knights on our side of the river, and then capture as many javelins as he can from the soldiers who can't attack him, with Glade standing by to fleece-and-release.

When the pegasus knights come in, bait the left flank with Tanya, and bait the right flank with Karin. Then bait in Misha with Tanya and then talk to her with Karin before-

...Wait. I might be able to use the sleep sword with Fergus if I plan this properly. Since Tanya's baiting her so she doesn't take any counter-attack damage, there's very little risk of the sleep sword killing her now. I'll leave the option open at least next time, though if it's too risky, Nanna will just sleep staff her because Jesus Christ I want to be done with this chapter and this fucking game.

I'm sorry, It's just getting late and I'm feeling really frustrated. First off, “talk and then capture” is a ridiculous recruitment condition the player has absolutely no way of guessing blind. Admittedly it's not as terrible as “talk and then kill” (looking at you, Path of Radiance), but it's still pretty dumb, because it's not even the sort of “play it safe” thing for a properly-cautious player to do, because you have to expend precious resources to capture her, making it a gamble if it'll even pay off in more than a wind sword. Second, why the fuck are recruitment conditions getting harder as the game progresses!? These are supposed to be the units I use to replace the ones that died! Why are these utterly mediocre second-half-of-the-game units, who aren't nearly as good as their early-game counterparts, requiring warp staves and sleep staves and intricate fucking sidequests like the nonsense I know is coming with Xavier!?

Anyway, the one time I managed to get it right and was prepared to sleep-sword her, she completely changes her AI behavior and advances along with all of her pegasus knights in the opposite direction, meaning I have to sleep-staff her anyway. Thanks, game.

Incidentally, I probably would have just let her go unrecruited that one time I forgot to talk to her, but honestly, I want to see her dialogue. It's probably not much, but it's implied she's related to one of the pegasus knights who sided against the queen in chapter 4 of FE4, and I'm curious to hear more about that.

Alright, Callion's been warped over, so time to use flame sword number two to slaughter the boss, then grab the other villages and the church before warping Leif to safety. And if I can, I'd like to take out as many of those armor knights as I can with Callion while he's over there.

I managed to kill all of them, which unfortunately didn't net any good level ups. Not that I can really complain with Callion here. He has 17 defense and 10 magic, the only things I'm really looking to improve at this point. Everything else is 20. Including constitution unfortunately, so he's completely impossible to rescue. Alas, that was bound to happen eventually.

And at the last possible moment before Saias arrives, we warp Leif, and then get to the church to get Sarah.

...Who is a level 7 cleric with a silence staff, a B staff rank with Es in the elements and a D in light magic, five movement stars, Paragon, Miracle and Wrath.

...Gee, I wonder who's getting all of the crusader scrolls next chapter!

She seems to be a bit... odd. The priest seems to think she's mentally ill, and she seems to act like she's... on the spectrum, as it were. I'm really hoping we see more from her than just that conversation, because it was way too mysterious to just leave like that.

But yeah, with that, that's everything. And I even took Misha's inventory in case she doesn't join with it.

Okay, let's get the hell out of here.

Alright, at least Misha's recruitment method makes sense after the fact. Basically, Karin needed to talk with her in order to get information to persuade her later once the battle cooled down. I... think. Did she not know about the kids before? Not sure.

...No, apparently she didn't. But talking to Misha convinced Karin to talk to the other pegasus knights offscreen apparently. Honestly my interpretation would have made much more sense.

Okay, I've calmed down a bit. I'm still not a fan of this map, but most of the stuff that was making me pull my hair out was optional best-case-scenario shit. Still, I stand by what I said before: the recruitment requirements are getting ridiculous, especially since the units themselves pretty much aren't worth the while. Misha is the kind of mediocre mid-game replacement unit that other games would just throw at me for free or maybe require a single conversation with a green or red unit. This game makes me fight off an army of pegasus knights wielding horse slayers in a sea of trees and then use a valuable sleep staff use just to get her, assuming I even know I have to do that. If I am even remotely in the kind of desperate situation where I'd find her valuable to deploy, I have serious doubts that I'd have the manpower to recruit her in a timely fashion and then clear this map before shit hits the fan. Mainly because I'd be short on the kinds of units who can take care of the Fenrir user supporting her and maneuver around the forest effectively. And if I stick around to recruit her, a lot of my army is going to be stuck near where the reinforcements spawn when Saias arrives.

Of course, as has become so infamous I heard about it long before I started playing this game, there's an even worse one to come.

...And judging by the website I'm reading for treasure/recruitment/ambush spawns/etc...

...It's the next fucking chapter.

...Jesus Christ.

I may just not even try to recruit him. I don't want to get this kind of headache two days in a row.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

She seems to be a bit... odd. The priest seems to think she's mentally ill, and she seems to act like she's... on the spectrum, as it were. I'm really hoping we see more from her than just that conversation, because it was way too mysterious to just leave like that.

Strangely, her Chapter 16B recruitment tells you a whole lot more. From the old translation.:

Spoiler

Sara:
“You seem to be having fun, Rinecock.”

Rinecock (boss of 16B):
“Lady Sara!? You musn’t come out here. Please return to your room.”

Sara:
“But I’m bored. Where’s Grandpa?”

Rinecock:
“Bishop Manfroy is in Conort with Lord Yurius. He should be returning soon…”

Sara:
“I shouldn’t have come here… It’s so boring.”

2nd Turn

Sara:
“Huh…? Who…who are you…?”

Rinecock:
“Lady Sara? Is something wrong?”

Sara:
“No…it’s nothing. Rinecock, can I go out for a walk?”

Rinecock:
“N-No, Lady Sara. Please… You must stay put.”

Conversation (Seiram, Sara)

Seiram:
“Lady Sara!? What are you doing here?”

Sara:
“Who are you? I don’t know you.”

Seiram:
“Ah… I was once a Lopto priest, but there is no way you would know me.”

Sara:
“Oh… But I have no need for you. I’m looking for the voice.”

Seiram:
“Voice?”

Sara:
“A beautiful voice… It’s crying out for me. It’s saying,
‘Help, help…'”

Seiram:
“…I see… Lady Sara, the granddaughter of Bishop Manfroy, can use the Staff of Kia…”

Sara:
“Oh… See you, Seiram…”

Conversation (Leaf, Sara)

Leaf:
“Huh? What’s a girl doing here…?”

Sara:
“……”

Leaf:
“Who are you? Are you alone?”

Sara:
“Hmm… So this is you…”

Leaf:
“Huh? What do you mean?”

Sara:
“Ahaha… I knew it. All right, I’ll help you.”

Leaf:
“What do I do… Where are Dorias and August when I need them…”

Sara:
“I’m Sara. I know all about you. Your name is Leaf. You’re the prince of Lenster. Your father is named Cuan. Your mother was a pretty woman named Ethlin, but she died.”

Leaf:
“! ……”

Sara:
“You don’t have to look like that. My parents are dead, too. Mama died when I still little. Papa…was killed by Grandpa because he loved Mama. It was before I was born.”

Leaf:
“……”

Sara:
“You were calling for me. So I’m offering to help. But if you’re just going to call me a nuisance, then fine!”

Leaf:
“Wait! I…I can’t let you go. I need to know more about you. Will you come with us?”

Sara:
“Well…okay. I like your voice, Leaf.”

Leaf:
“Thank you…Sara…”

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh shit. Yeah, I suspected this would be the case, but the game just confirmed that the guy with the warp staff knows how to use it. And since this game gives you almost no deployment control (how the fuck did it take them six games to figure out that was a good feature?), I can't do any first-turn strats to capture the guy with Dean unless I warp. I initially wanted to avoid doing that, but now that I know that the guy's probably going to waste a warp staff use anyway, I might as well use a staff use of mine to get his intact, along with all of his other shit, like the fortify staff and the Fenrir tome.

Silence exists, don't forget. It is nearly as good as Sleep on mages.

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5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Silence exists, don't forget. It is nearly as good as Sleep on mages.

True, but then he wouldn't equip anything, he'd have an AS of 15 and 24-30 more evade, and thus he'd be even harder to capture in a timely manner. Though I suppose in that case I could do it at my own pace, after capturing Misha...

Unless silenced people still equip their tomes.

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2 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

True, but then he wouldn't equip anything, he'd have an AS of 15 and 24-30 more evade, and thus he'd be even harder to capture in a timely manner. Though I suppose in that case I could do it at my own pace, after capturing Misha...

Unless silenced people still equip their tomes.

No fighting back = insta capture. No fighting. 100% certain.

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1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Anyway, onto Chapter 17. Judging by the guide, this map is going to be an absolute pain. I have ten turns to complete this map before Saias shows up and completely fucks up my shit with his sleep staff and his 18 magic. Not even Asbel has 18 magic yet. So basically nobody except Leif is safe. Apparently this game is merciful enough that no status staff user will ever target Leif, and he's immune to the sleep sword and things like that, so that enemies can't instantly softlock your game on any seize or escape map. Regardless, this means I need to get this map done in 10 turns if I don't want shit to royally hit the fan with a potentially attempt-ending curveball really late into the map.

This is a problem, because 1: the bridge to reach the gate doesn't appear until after turn 10, and 2: there are ballistae guarding the river, so I need to be very careful about how I ferry Leif and Callion across it.

...That is a lot of effort to save like three restore staff uses (less if you just want to carry the sleeper to a safe location), and like 5ish turns where the enemies are competent. Plus the way the AI shifts as the 10 leadership star Saias enters the field is just such an iconic moment in this game that you ended up missing.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

And I really, really want her, because she has a wind sword, which in this game boosts your speed by 5 when you equip it, making it easily the best magic sword type in the game, and depending on what the game throws at me, could be absolutely necessary for doubling some enemies (that or using Forseti).

I tend to find the +5 magic from the Fire Sword more useful, as most of the units that can use it need the extra magic, plus it can be used to increase magic defense, occasionally let you avoid status staff on key units, and reach high magic benchmarks for status staves with Nanna.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

using Eda so that she can also aura-boost him

Fun trick here is that if Eda is carrying Linoan, her support also applies, which makes Eda a portable +30 accuracy, avoid, crit, and crit avoid on Dean.

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

I'm sorry, It's just getting late and I'm feeling really frustrated. First off, “talk and then capture” is a ridiculous recruitment condition the player has absolutely no way of guessing blind. Admittedly it's not as terrible as “talk and then kill” (looking at you, Path of Radiance), but it's still pretty dumb, because it's not even the sort of “play it safe” thing for a properly-cautious player to do, because you have to expend precious resources to capture her, making it a gamble if it'll even pay off in more than a wind sword. Second, why the fuck are recruitment conditions getting harder as the game progresses!? These are supposed to be the units I use to replace the ones that died! Why are these utterly mediocre second-half-of-the-game units, who aren't nearly as good as their early-game counterparts, requiring warp staves and sleep staves and intricate fucking sidequests like the nonsense I know is coming with Xavier!?

Another minor advantage of the B route is that the recruitments are generally more sensible (plus the extra information about Sara that Interdimensional Observer already pointed out). Sara simply needs to be talked to with Lief, Shannam needs to be talked to by Homer (they have a conversation turn 2 of chapter 14 if Homer hasn't been recruited by then, that hints at this recruitment method), and finally the most esoteric being to have Lief visit the gate of a castle when the objective is to escape at a different point. None of this Olwen needs to be dead/unrecruited; or talk, sleep, and capture nonsense. Xavier is still in both, and I wouldn't blame you if you didn't try, but having a sleep sword makes it somewhat manageable if you do want to go for it.

Sleeping all the named Armor knights isn't that hard (although if you don't have a con capped unit you need to make sure there is space for the green units to get into position to talk), and killing the unnamed Armored knights from across the wall is still fairly easy. To make things a bit easier the Armored Knight names, and villager that must talk to them share the first letter of their name. Its a bit tedious but fairly doable.

As for my iron man, no losses in 17B, it is just the most ballista hell that has ever ballistaed or helled, and taking the time to have the ballistas run out of ammo takes all of the challenge out of that chapter.

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Oh, and if you want the Member Card, don't kill the Soldiers, but, catch and release works. The MC isn't that great here though. The Armors labeled "Leonster" and Civilians are what concerns the Xavier recruitment.

Project Exile gave the civilians and armors names, to make it much easier to figure out who talks to who. Alliteration will guide you, but I recall they used one first letter twice. I forget which civy goes with which armor in that case.

Edited by Interdimensional Observer
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3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I may just not even try to recruit him. I don't want to get this kind of headache two days in a row.

Just don't, really. Don't do this to yourself. Not worth it anyway. I spent hours trying to do it, in the end the green & red units fucking blocked the way and i decided to reset and just kill every last one of them.

Don't make yourself hate the game more than you already hating it

I'll just put this here https://old.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/enz89c/fe5_comic_xavier_savior/

Edited by Shrimperor
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50 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Question: If I capture them, can the civilians walk up to the person capturing them and talk to them?

Just tested this, and as far as I can tell, no, but once they are talked to they become green units that can be rescued and moved out of the way. Luckily I had a random save from when I decided to do both routes for the new translation that was on this chapter.

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